They say there is progress... But, I wish I could find a site or blog or something telling the truth in the matter. Just because they say the sky is orange, doesn't mean I'll believe them!
Posted by Turgan (Member # 6697) on :
O_O... wow... I'm going to go crawl in a corner and cry because people are stupid.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Which people?
Posted by Turgan (Member # 6697) on :
sorry. Turgan can not come to the post right now. He's busy weeping. Leave a message after the beep. *BEEP!*
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
Are you aware of what happened Sunday?
Was it five co-ordinated attacks in one day?
How do we tell the Nationalist Rebels from the Terrorists?
When will the majority of Iraqi's be able to put together a government, military and police force that can handle these situtation?
When can we wash are hands of this and bring this situation to a peaceful solution?
<<<THOR>>>
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Simple. Nationalist rebels blow up military convoys. Terrorists blow up women and children.
Posted by Snowden (Member # 1660) on :
A few more years, it's a war of attrition. The insurgents have to run out of men and bombs eventually. SBS, they are getting more coordinated, and it's going to get better before it gets worse, but the insurgents don't have a viable positive plan so we just have to wait them out, like the KKK.
[ September 14, 2004, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Snowden ]
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Sounds like what they said about the Palestinians years ago....
Posted by Snowden (Member # 1660) on :
The Palestinians weren't blowing themselves up, I think that's a substantive difference. I'm more worried that we are dealing with a situation closer to the Reconstruction Southern Whites, and they stayed ticked for a good long while, and well, ended Reconstruction.
[ September 14, 2004, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Snowden ]
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
Why can't anyone step up and answer my question?
When will we see progress in Iraq?
<<<THOR>>>
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
What, like a Wal-Mart?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
0600 GMT October 2, 2004.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Jeez, can't progress wait until after breakfast?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
That is after breakfast in Iraq.
Dagonee
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Pssh. McDonald's would disagree. I can get a Sausage Biscuit until 10:30am.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Well, sure, if you call that breakfast.
I call it Fred.
Dagonee
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
Oh there is progress.
When will we see it here in the States?
With the media's current attitude? ...Never.
I keep in contact with friends serving in Iraq for my updates on the state of affairs there.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
What do they say about it? I genuinely am interested in it from all perspectives.
[ September 15, 2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Synesthesia ]
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:When will we see proof of progress in Iraq?
Proof is highly overrated. I'm tired of proof. It was proof of WMDs that got us into this mess. I'd be happier with a clear set of goals besides "a free and democratic Iraq." I don't know what that looks like, and I don't know what kinds of means we are willing to employ to bring this about. And in this age, the means are as indicative of the severity of the situation as the goals. What kind of coersive measures, because that's how the US gets things done, are we willing to resort to if someone hops on a plane and launches another attack here.
[ September 16, 2004, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
A clear neatly mapped out plan with an alternative plan in case the first one doesn't work would be rather nice...
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
Syn, I would think you of all people would understand that people and societies don't come with neatly mapped-out plans. People are unpredictable. Any plan you lay out will change radically the very first day you try to implement it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
That's why I stated there should be alternate plans. There should at least be some sort of framework, it's better than no plan at all or, "We're really working on it, really!"
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
quote:Syn, I would think you of all people would understand that people and societies don't come with neatly mapped-out plans. People are unpredictable. Any plan you lay out will change radically the very first day you try to implement it.
Sure they do. We have one here called The Constitution. We have The Declaration of Independence, as well (that while not setting up laws or some such did point to a vision of what our country should look like). Iraq doesn't have a realistic vision of what their future could look like and it will have to be up to them to decide it, not us.
Heard a journalist on Terri Gross make a good point about the differences in vision over there. The current prime minister that we picked and put into power came out of the gate strong and had initial support of his people. Why? His people spread rumors that he had shot some insurgents PERSONALLY and "CUT OFF HANDS" of others. This was seen by the population of Iraq as a positive thing but over here, many would find it reprehensible and over the top.
The point is, we won't see progress in Iraq until we are out of there. And we won't ever leave until we can assure that the person in power is and will remain pro-USA which means...we probably will never leave Iraq.
And to the poster who implied that it is the media's responsibility for progress?
It wasn't the media that declared "Mission Accomplished" a year ago giving false hope that we were through and our young men and women would come home.
fil
[ September 15, 2004, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: fil ]
Posted by kerinin (Member # 4860) on :
just a side note, but it seems kofi annan just said that the war was a violation of the UN charter and therefore illegal.
oh, and it seems like we're on our way towards invading iran. i guess as long as we've got our military in the area...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote: Why can't anyone step up and answer my question?
When will we see progress in Iraq?
Simple. When there is uniformity in the Middle East. Uniformity of politics, socioeconomic structure, religious tolerance, and other important criteria that make a country great, namely Education, Transportation, and Communications. But why, you wonder? Why no progress?
How about:
Religious discordance both internally and externally. Religious fanatacism vs a brutal secular regime with a dictator living like a king.
Then there is an entire nation above which is formed around a religious power base and other neighbors that are monarchies and regimes to add to the discordance. And I do not even need to mention Israel to further add to the disarray.
But even in opening the can of worms that is the Middle East, we should be fearful of when they do finally settle their grievances as an entity, and become a new Superpower.
That will truly be a day of reckoning!
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
quote: But even in opening the can of worms that is the Middle East, we should be fearful of when they do finally settle their grievances as an entity, and become a new Superpower.
That will truly be a day of reckoning!
I doubt it, since they must first learn to behave sanely, which would involve recognizing that they are better off without crazed dictators in power...not to mention understanding that anything done by the US fifty or twenty or even ten years ago was done largely by people who are no longer in power.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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