You have all been helpful in the past with good advice, and suppport as well.
As many of you know, I am 1/3 of a FMF group marriage. I am the 1/3 that came to the party late. My SOs have been married for 30 years. I have been part of this family for 9. Well...
Turns out the 'real' wife in our marriage has been ambivalent to negative about this situation for a long time. Recently, now that their daughter and grandkids have moved in with us, the place is too crowded, and her feelings have turned solidly negative.
I am the primary wage earner (have been for about 4 years), and have variously supported two of the four grown children, voluntarily or otherwise, i.e., if I don't make the car payment for a car I've never seen, David's credit rating goes down the tubes because he co-signed on his son's loan. I've discovered I'm doing a job I don't love, to support a family that basically doesn't want me around. I make about $10,000 more a year than my man does, and Wife and Daughter don't work, for various reasons.
The problem: the 7-year-old who is David's and mine. I don't want to walk out on the family and leave my son. I don't want him to be away from his family. I don't know if I can find a job that pays anything like what I'm making, that will allow me to put in a regular 40-hour week. I'm currently working as a manager in a retail organization, which means 5:30a-4p or 12:30p to 11p shifts. Kinda tough to get the little one off to school when the bus doesn't come for 2 hours after I leave for work.
Somehow I need the courage to make the decision to go, and to make the right decision about what's best for my child.
Oh yeah, the other part is that I'm still madly in love with the man I've been calling husband for the past 9 years. I just can't overlook the reality that the whole family is suffering because this experiment didn't work.
I don't have any close family geographically, as we moved out to Colorado a couple of years ago, due to my job transferring me.
Solid ideas? Please?
Lisa
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Oh wow, Lisa. Tough times. You have my sympathy. I'll think on it.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Off the top of my head, just because I'm brainstorming like crazy:
any chance you'd be comfortable with splitting a place with another single mom in the area and sharing childcare duties? Maybe put out an ad or flyer in friendly environments?
Um, a duplex with one of the grown kids on the other side (stay in touch with the family, but apart -- maybe decreased rent for that person if they help with their younger sib)?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Wow.
Um...tough call.
Does your husband know how unhappy you are? To the point you are seriously considering a radical change in the current arrangement?
Speaking from experience, he may not be aware of your unhappiness and just how deep it runs.
-Trevor
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Is there a family counselor brave enough to take you all on? If it weren't for the feelings involved, would you be okay with continuing? Whatever my feelings about you initiating the arrangement, I feel for your child. Then again, the status quo may be worse than change just looking at how he may be treated by Wife, if the theory is for her to be caregiver.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Sara, we actually have a garage apartment which step-daughter and kids live in. I'm seriously thinking of trading spaces.
Trevor, when I asked him for words of wisdom to help me through this, he told me he wished we would all "cut the bulls***." That wasn't the advice I needed at that point.
Pooka, wife has been caregiver in the past, and has been resenting the job lately.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Also, you need to see a lawyer if you're thinking at all about leaving. You need to know what your options are. Bring details on who owns the house (is actually on the deed), joint accounts, etc. If you don't have a private account, pay the lawyer in cash (get a receipt) and have bills sent to a private mailbox somewhere.
You may need to do some things in advance to be prepared to leave.
Sara's idea is a great one if you decide to leave, but you need to be careful about looking - it will get back to your husband in the most unexpected ways.
Dagonee
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Um Doc, never mind - leave.
It's one thing if he doesn't have a clue, but if he has a clue and doesn't care...that's something else entirely.
Dag's legal advice is invaluable - otherwise this can and probably will come back to haunt you in bad ways.
Are you in a large-ish area? Are the prospects of finding another retail management job likely?
-Trevor
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Arggh! Dag!
Joint everything. We've had joint accounts since day 1, D and I own the house as joint tenants.
However, I'm not beneficiary on anything, of course.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Doc, that's just a raw deal all around.
If you're contributing money, you should at least be listed as a beneficiary.
-Trevor
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
OK, that's actually good on the house. If you weren't on the deed, in a lot of states you'd have no claim to the house.
If it's a done deal, see the lawyer now and get a plan together for the best way to legally separate accounts. There's lots of ways to do it, and I have no clue which ones are best. Your lawyer will.
Good luck.
Dagonee Edit: I can't emphasize the need for speed enough. If you act, make it clear to your lawyer that you just want a fair division - you don't want to take everything from your husband, just your share.
Definitely don't move out without talking to the lawyer about custody arrangements.
[ September 14, 2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Trevor, not so much he doesn't care. He just thinks that we can choose to get along and be on friendly terms. She's past that emotion, and I can't pretend it doesn't hurt.
I'm not afraid of anyone knowing I'm thinking of leaving. I just don't want anyone to think I'm making idle threats, or trying to coerce him to go with me. Like I said, I love him, but I won't put him in a position of choosing one or the other of us.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Wow, I don't have any great advice except listen to Dag's advice. Are you documenting everything?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
How old are the other children?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
That's because he cannot look at the issue impartially. He's integral to the entire process.
It sounds like you've made up your mind, which means you need to start looking at the process objectively and do what's best for you and your son.
-Trevor
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Lass - I'll start now.
Katarina - The grown kids are 30, 28, 26, and 24. The 26 year old and her 7 and 5 year old live with us.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
But Trevor, that's just it. I don't know what's best for any of us.
At this point, the entire family is home, and most of them are in this room, so I think I'll check out for a bit.
Thanks for the ideas. Please keep 'em coming. I'll log back in after while.
Are there any single moms or dads out there who managed this without destroying everything?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*nods* I was wondering if there were any other elementary-age kids at home.
Dag would definitely know better. As for moving into the other apartment, would that make things okay for you? Would that ease tensions enough to be bearable? I think it is going to be hard for your seven year old to be away from the rest of his family, but since you are ready to change things, if you are going to separate yourself completely, it might be better to do it all at once instead of in stages. Switching apartments might be a stage instead of a solution.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Katharina, I'm not sure if it would be enough. We need to finish getting the apartment plumbed. When that happens, it would reduce the amount of time I'd need to spend in the main house. I just don't know.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote: I don't want to walk out on the family and leave my son. I don't want him to be away from his family.
Switching apartments or moving out before legal proceedings have begun can sway things in their favor. At least that is how it is in divorce- obviously this situation is a bit different. The thing you have to keep in mind is that (I assume) this arrangement was based on it being okay with Wife, and it apparently is not. Whether your man wants you to stay and try to work things out is irrelevant. Their attitudes may change swiftly if you leaving means the loss of the house or Wife needing to get a job.
You need to write down, both for documentation and for your own motivation, what it is that is driving you to this decision now. It seems clear to me that you have been influenced to make less than great decisions in the past by your emotional ties with your family. Your hurt and anger will fade and you will seek again for the place you had, even if it wasn't a great one. So I'm just encouraging you to be really sure that this is what you want before beginning. Once you begin, cut swiftly.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
You. What's best for _you_ and your son.
You talk about finding the courage to leave which tells me you've already come to a decision.
You're angry at making car payments and supporting a family that doesn't appreciate your contribution and the hostility from the family that depends on you.
I don't know that moving out will help you with your dislike of your job, but unless you want to force a confrontation with the family and have your grievances aired which may or may not settle anything, you may be stuck either trying to find a new job with less seniority but better hours or making an arrangement with a single-mom support group, if there is one to be had.
How flexible is your current job with your hours?
-Trevor
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Can I say just how much I admire and respect Dagonee? I am so glad to have you around and willing to share your talents.
(The rest of you, too -- I really admire the community today. )
Lisa, it might not be a good idea to make any financial investments in things like plumbing, etc., until you figure out what is going on.
I think you are brave and strong, and I think your sense of what is a good decision for you and those you care for is a healthy one, from what you've said. I hope that this is enough to outweigh any misplaced guilt or regret (those come with every big decision, by the way -- that you let things happen, that you didn't change them sooner, that you weren't somehow a better person). You are sensible and loving and doing the very best you can. Remember that!
[and -- not surprisingly -- I agree with pooka's advice, too. Write it down, figure it out. Think carefully and let your clear thinking guide you.]
[ September 14, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
What a difficult situation for you right now. I'm sorry you're having to face these kinds of decisions, but I hope you will have the clarity of thought and mind to figure out what will be best for you and your son and the strength and courage to do it. Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Trevor, the terrible thing about my job is that I left the audit position because I was traveling 70% of the time. I felt like I needed to be home more. I changed companies two months ago, so I have zero seniority. A lifestyle change almost requires a job change as well.
Sara, you're right. This group of people is wonderful. I, too, appreciate the sound advice of Dag, and everyone else.
I feel like almost every decision I've made lately has been a poor one. That's one of the biggest reasons I'm so hesitant to leap out and do anything. Quitting my last job required a pay cut, and it turns out the grass really was no greener. If anyone asks, Home Depot and Lowe's are exactly the same two companies, with different colored aprons. Seniority gone, stock options gone.
Surely someone out there needs a really smart 40-year-old with a strong work ethic and a need for reasonable hours. Until my personal life got all stupid, I was really serious about a nursing degree, and then nurse-practitioner. Now?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I suspect that the kind of experiment you’ve been trying could only work if all the members of the family are fully on board with the idea. I feel for you and your son, but I think you’re going to have to end up treating this as a divorce.
Does your state have family mediation services? They might be able to help you work out an amicable separation that will be less disruptive for your son.
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
dkw: Exactly right. I still am pro on the concept of intentional community, but everyone involved has to want it.
I'm saving the text of this thread to mull over, and plan from.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I'd say don't worry about changing jobs. If people want to stalk you, they will do it unless you change names and move to another city and all that. Keep in mind that very likely your son's father will be awarded some visitation and you will still have these people in your life. You might even wind up paying them alimony. Who knows. You need to discuss it with a lawyer.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Actually, since I don't think Colorado recognizes anything beyond a traditional man-woman marriage, I don't know if she could get stuck with ailimony.
But on the bright side, since you have zero seniority, you have less to lose by contemplating a career change.
Float your resume around to some of the local stores - with the holiday season coming up, they're bound to be looking for more help. And an experienced manager is going to be a good catch.
Important note: Write down what you feel are the problems and a list of possible resolutions.
This exercise will help you clearly define the problems and establish what is acceptable as a solution before you get caught in the heady waters of emotional turmoil.
-Trevor
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Trevor, I started to write stuff down the other day, when I went out to lunch. It was a terrifying prospect. I once was told that you should always write the important stuff longhand, because the computer gives you too much distance from the real issue.
Have to work tomorrow, but will post when I get home.
Thanks again for everyone's advice. It really is appreciated.
Lisa
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I don't know if more emotional gravity is what is needed. But whatever works for you. I find typing usually better at giving me revealing Freudian slips.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I'm sorry this is such a hard time for you. I don't have any good advice, but just wanted to let you know that you're in my thoughts.
space opera
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Sara:
quote: Lisa, it might not be a good idea to make any financial investments in things like plumbing, etc., until you figure out what is going on.
I agree.
I can't comment on the marriage arrangements you have ,Lisa, they are too far from what I am familiar with, so I will stick to something a know at least a little bit about.
I wouldn't put any financial investments into any sort of joint property until you have decided what to do. If you are leaving, and it sounds like it to me, that is money thrown out the window...at best, all you could recoup is half that money back, because you own the half house.
If you can fix it up on your own, with a minimum investment it might be a good between srep...but I think you might be better off if you do as others suggested here and at least consider a clean break.
Don't let him make you out to be the bad one here...and if things have gotten that bad, stay clear of him if you can, as much as possible.
I don't think moving across the yard to the garage will appeases her, but if you think it would help, then it might work...for now.....
Good luck, and I hope it works out for the best....both for you and the kids...
Kwea
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
Lisa:
You are in a sticky situation, espcially since there is a child involved. I agree with everyone else, get out as quickly and cleanly as possible.
Are you close to your family (mom, dad, etc)? If you are, now may be the time to talk to them and see if they can open some options for you. When my marriage split 7 years ago, my parents were smart enough to understand that I couldn't raise two toddlers on my own making the money I was making (I was working at Barnes and Noble at the time). They opened their home to me and gave me instructions to go back to college. Had it not been for their support and kindness, I would have landed in a homeless shelter (I came to them with two toddlers, a bunch of stuff from our apartment, a car and $150 in my pocket).
Trevor is right, document everything, plan carefully.
I will also add that as much as you love this man, as much as you want this to work, this sort of unhappiness breeds an unhealthy environment for your child. The healthiest thing I did for my children is divorce. More than likely your son already senses that something is very wrong and that you are very unhappy. If you'll keep him in the forefront of your mind when you consider your options, you'll instinctively make the right decision.
My prayers are with you. I ache for anyone that has to go through such a terrible thing. I'm still healing from my divorce. At the same time, it's one of the best things that could have happened to me.
God bless--Jess
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
((((((((((((Lisa)))))))))))) I wish I knew what to tell you. Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I feel for you, ma'am.
Not really much to add except that you have, here, listed off your reasons for leaving... there's not much, if anything about why you'd want to stay... and I think that accounts for the overwhelming advice to leave. It may not come to much, and in fact, it may solidify your desire to leave, but it might be worth sitting down and listing off everything good you get out of the relationship and all the reasons (if any) to stay.
The length and/or profundity of that list should tell you a lot more than the list of grievances and reasons to leave.
I wish you all the best. I know my counselor would take on this situation, but unfortunately, she does not practice in Co. It may be worth looking as well, though. There's got to be more than one good counselor in the world .
[ September 15, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Surely someone out there needs a really smart 40-year-old with a strong work ethic and a need for reasonable hours. Until my personal life got all stupid, I was really serious about a nursing degree, and then nurse-practitioner. Now?
I don't have much advice on the home situation, but I wanted to address this snippet. You might, in the future, look into the banking industry (where I work). Banks are always looking for strong work ethic individuals, and banking hours are GREAT for families (when you are getting into the supervisor, management levels, not just tellers -- and it sounds like you have good experience). Banks historically don't pay as much, but sometimes it is worth it because of the demand of hours is lower.
You mentioned Nursing -- any health care profession is going to have long hours. Hospitals, and care facilties are open 24/7 and always have to have people on staff. No holidays, no free weekends. I worked in a nursing capacity for awhile, and had a hard time working it around family time.
Farmgirl
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I was without internet for the past three days, so couldn't get online at all.
I am going to take a couple days next week (my only days off in the near future) and really focus on this: emotionally, financially, and practically. At a minimum, I realize I have to get my finances less entwined with theirs.
Farmgirl, I appreciate your idea. I hadn't thought of banking at all.
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