i've participated actively on Hatrack Young Writers for almost two years now. When I started out, I was idealistic, naive, and hopeful.
And shocked at harsh criticism.
And now I've turned into the people who infuriated me as a newbie. Are many newbies jsut stupid? I mean, trolls, yes, it's all right to be mean to them. And I don't think I'm really mean. I'm just harsh in criticism and I do offer suggestions.
So what do you think? Is it all right to be harsh to newbies?
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
With a member number as high as yours, why should I bother listening?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Yes. Harsh criticism is useful. Someone in a workshop should not be there if they are not interested in improving their craft.
Dagonee
Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
Newbie is a state of mind. I've never paid attention to member numbers, but, well, you can kinda tell.
And besides, my other member number is lower. Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
Back in your cage newbie! Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
If newbie is a state of mind, then what you are really mean to is just people who are: "idealistic, naive, and hopeful."
I'm such a n00b.
Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
Maybe I phrased it wrong. I mean the ones who come and post their story and are surprised when they don't get bouquets of roses tossed at their feet. And then get mad at criticism.
Yeah, my hopes and dreams were hammered into cold cynicism. Best thing that ever happened to me. *sob*
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
Wow, I thought that was you... Yeah, you aren't that bad, it's true, you and I at times, are harsh to them. But I think it's better that they learn it with constructive criticism than to get nothing back from a publishing company...
Don't be mean to Antro. Anthro is cool. ^_^
I'm still Idealistic, Naive, and hopeful... does that still classify me as a newbie there?
[ September 26, 2004, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Vadon ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*puts Nathan back in his cage*
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Be most harsh to yourself, second-most harsh to those you like the most, and not harsh at all to those you don't know.
To harshly criticize a newbie is to claim expertise on a topic you've never even seen before. It's arrogant, and unwarranted.
[ September 26, 2004, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
Erm, I think he is reffering to an incident that occured recently... A New person to the board posted a very biased essay, it was filled with opinions, there was no arguement in it. It just, well, it was just plain terrible. I, too, criticized harshly on the person telling the person good strategies to put into an Essay.
He later edited his post, then said something like "what are your thoughts on this?" And in a later post, he said "What are you guys criticising?" Pretending that he never put an essay on to start with.
Either that or how the person mocked him later.
[ September 26, 2004, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: Vadon ]
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Psssht. You got nothing on me, dude.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
Well duh ... Isn't the function of the edit post button to make othere people's responses look like nonsense?
Edit: I so want to erase this ...
[ September 26, 2004, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: kaioshin00 ]
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
Here I thought it was there to make yourself look like an idiot...
Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
You four-digiters should know your place!
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yep, just like you three digiters do!
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
The Tatiana says be nice to newbies or else! Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
When does your registration date switch to "A Long Time Ago!"?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
When Hatrack reincarnates, phoenix-like, and your specific facts are unknown. Yeah, in that wondrous time shall we all be as equals. Except for our member numbers, which will be alphabetically based. N00b.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Raia, an early version of the UBB code didn't save registration dates. So the people who were there before that get "A Long Time Ago" put in their date field when the database was converted.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I like my explanation better.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Be most harsh to yourself, second-most harsh to those you like the most, and not harsh at all to those you don't know.
To harshly criticize a newbie is to claim expertise on a topic you've never even seen before. It's arrogant, and unwarranted.
Isn't the Young Writers' Forum a workshop? I would expect criticism to be the goal there.
Dagonee
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
::points::
I think this "Tatiana" is a troll! I'm pretty sure she's an existing member posting hiding behind a new name!
::blows whistle::
:-p
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
There's criticism and then there's criticism - It runs the range from:
Dude, that's stupid! This sucks.
Which would be an example of bad, or perhaps less than constructive criticism.
You have several problems with the essay - you express little or no factual data, your sentence and paragraph structure is crude and needs serious revisions and...
Which isn't particularly nice or tactful, but neither is it unduly harsh or counter-productive. Edit: Argh.
-Trevor
Edit: For structure
[ September 26, 2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The person receiving criticism is the only one who can make criticism constructive, depending on how they use it.
"This sucks" provides the valuable datapoint that one reader thinks it sucks. Knowing nothing else, there may not be a lot the writer can do with that. But it's still valuable information.
That said, it behooves a critic to learn how to deliver criticism well, if for no other reason than to prepare for the day you have to criticize your boss.
Dagonee
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Worst. Post. Ever.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Aw, does that help make up for your miniscule post count?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I favor quality over quantity.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Oh, that's a shame then. I always like people to achieve at least one of the things they strive for.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Ouch.
I can feel the chill from here.
-Trevor
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
DO you strive for vapidity, then?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
No, I think it's contagious.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Troll, huh? Go hide in the basement, noob, so Jeanne doesn't get you!
(Disclaimer: The Tatiana as far as she knows did not cause the formation of any hurricanes this season nor did she do anything to alter their intensity nor affect the paths they may have taken.)
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
See?!
She's a witch!
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
She's made of wood!
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
She turned me into a newt!
...
...
...
But I got better...
Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
Well, I don't say just "this sucks". I will tell them what's wrong with it and suggest a few solutions.
And if I have a couple hours of free time, I'll dissect it bit by bit and write a veryin-depth critique. Infuriatingly enough, it's when I do that mostly that they come back with saying it's perfect how it is.
Vadon: Actually, I'm not talking about enderbean, though I am inclined to injure him right now. I just noticed I was getting harsher in my critiques.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I didn't mean to imply that you did Anthro - I'm simply providing an extreme as a base for reference.
-Trevor
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Holy crap, Dag. You have a higher post count than I do!
Good thing I'm so much better looking.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
But not better at math, apparently. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Holy crap, Ralphie. You have a higher post count than I do!
Good thing I'm so much better looking.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
quote:But not better at math, apparently.
Or, perhaps, dyslexic.
I quickly checked my post count and clearly transposed the 0 and the 7 in my 6709.
Again, though, good thing I'm so good-lookin'.
[ September 26, 2004, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Ralphie ]
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Kama - It's okay that you're better looking and speak more languages than I do. I look at you as sort of a prodigy. It's always okay if your progeny out-classes you.
(And by that I mean simply that my ninja assassins haven't reached you yet.)
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
They have. They are now a part of my harem.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
h..e..l..p...u..s...
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Well, damn.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote:h..e..l..p...u..s...
They like being my harem.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
Sure the leopard skin leotards are fun, but chronic dehydration is no laughing matter.
Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
quote: I didn't mean to imply that you did Anthro - I'm simply providing an extreme as a base for reference.
I know, just describing my own critique style and using your example as, well, a non-example.
Ninja assassins? Pish posh. Load of tosh. Go for the pirates.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote: Sure the leopard skin leotards are fun, but chronic dehydration is no laughing matter.
Comedic gold. Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
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