Hatrack River Forum: Anyone fluent in latin? A little help please...

This is topic Anyone fluent in latin? A little help please... in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Grigori (Member # 6917) on :

Greetings, I've just discovered this board and have an odd question to pose:

I've always been impressed with the 'There is no teacher but the enemy...' Quote. It's very appropriate for my line of work and I was wondering if anyone had found or created a translation of the quote in Latin so I could have a plaque made.

Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.

[ October 08, 2004, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Grigori ]

Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :

I can give you a French translation but that's not what you're searching for, right ? Welcome here, by the way !

Posted by Defenestraitor (Member # 6907) on :

Oooh... I'd like to know that one, too. I'll be coming back to this thread to find out!

Welcome! [Wave]

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

Heretay Isway Onay Eachertay Utbay hetay emy-enay. [Smile]

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

I thought about doing that Dan.

Posted by Grigori (Member # 6917) on :

Heh... It's good to know that the wise-ass genes will never die out. [Wink]

But seriously, any help in this matter would be appriciated. Any other language translation would be easy, but finding a latin translator has been frustratingly difficult.

Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :

Ask Eaquea Legit. She's qualified to teach latin at a high-school level.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

I'd recommend editing the name of the thread to attract those who would be able to help you. Adding something like "Latin Speakers, help" would probably do the trick.

Posted by Grigori (Member # 6917) on :

[Hail]

Good idea. My mind's a little fried lately. Too much school, not enough free time.

*commencing change*

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

Grigori,
My dad teaches Latin, so if you don't get your answer by Monday, i will email him. (he will not see his email this weekend)

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

I'm assuming that you don't mean a grammar teacher here...

Magister non est at hostis.

Or, playing with the word order a bit: Non magister est at hostis.

EDIT: Digging, for shame... I hope that was a typo... [Wink]

[ October 08, 2004, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Eaquae Legit ]

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

EL,
My dad(age 68, forty-fourth year teaching this year)(that is four years more than I have lived) went to Rome all summer to study with this teacher of spoken Latin, whose name escapes me. He said it was hard for him, but he enjoyed it. Have you ever heard of this man? He is pushing spoken Latin. There was an article about him in the NY Times,I think. Grr. Will ask my dad this weekend.

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

I haven't heard of him, but I've heard of a couple of different spoken Latin programs. I can't remember any of them, except for the fact that Radio Finland offers a once-weekly Latin broadcast...

Spoken Latin makes me shiver. In a good way, if someone competent is doing it. In a bad way, if they're expecting me to coem up with it.

[ October 08, 2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Eaquae Legit ]

Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :

If you need a Latin translation, change the threaed title to attrack Eduardo Sauron...he is a teacher from Brazil, and he knows Latin....

I don't, so i am out......

[Big Grin]

Kwea

Posted by esl (Member # 3143) on :

Would someone parse Eaquae Legit's sentence(s) with a translation? I have a tiny bit of Latin and I'm curious about how this is put together. Thanks in advance!

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

Equae,
Here is a site with questions and answers. His name is Father Reginald.

Edit to say my dad loved it, but it was hard for him. It has been a long time since he took a class like that, and he was the only "old guy." He said most of the students were young and bright, and that for a young person it would have been an amazing experience. He was too tired to go and have all the fun in Rome that his classmates did.

http://www.latin.org/latin/foster/FAQ.html

[ October 09, 2004, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]

Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :

I came to this thread too late (thanks Kwea!). Equae Legit already got it very well!

Anyway, I checked the translation. It's alright (not 100% sure about using 'at' here, but I guess it's right..."but" has a lot of meanings, and "at" covers most of them, usually).

About the order words' order, I like best the second one Equae Legit used.

Well...that's it! It's sooo fun, to use a bit of Latin again! [Big Grin]

Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :

AAACCK! [Embarrassed]

I'm terribly sorry EaquAE Legit! Yes, that was a typo. I humbly beg your forgiveness. [Embarrassed]

Posted by Julius Caesar (Member # 6921) on :

You should be more worried about offending me, actually.

Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :

I'm studying Latin (4th year now), and I really enjoy. My only lamentation is that it is not taught as a spoken language, thus, I find it very difficult to become fluent at it.

My teacher got new textbooks, however, and beginning with this year's Latin I students, she is teaching it completely as a spoken language, like Spanish or French. The students are doing very well at it.

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

HRE,
You should really look into Father Reginald's class for the summer. it is free!

Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :

I am trying to think back...but isn't there something better for "there is" than 'est'

maybe 'illiac est"

I just don't like the feel of it as it is. 'est' is he is, which doesn't see to be saying there is none in existance that is better than the enemy which is what is being said in english

[ October 09, 2004, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Lupus ]

Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :

I think "est" is fine, especially if you switch the word order around a bit: Non magister at hostis est. The Romans were big into personification and idealization in their writing, you must remember.

As for fluency in spoken Latin, I wasn't very good at it, but it was still fun to do. We had contests and activities to do with spoken Latin sometimes at our JCL activities. (I loved SCRAM so much!)

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

After I posted, I kept feeling that something was wrong. I figured it out...

"BUT" should not be translated as "at." In this case it is not a conjungtion, but a preposition. It's the difference betwee saying "But I said this..." and "except for this statement..."

So with another revision, we come to: Non magister est praeter hostes. My apologies.

("Illac" is an adverb in my dictionary, coming up as "that way, there." Esse is such an annoying verb. Sentences always feel incomplete when I use it without an explicit subject. I didn't put it at the end out of force of habit: too many profs yelling at me that Romans didn't end sentences with est. Personally, though, I like the sound of it better with est at the end.)

[ October 09, 2004, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Eaquae Legit ]

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

In order to avoid what must be my fifth or sixth edit to the above post, I'm just going to make a new one. Sorry I missed your post, esl.

Non magister est praeter hostes.
Non - not, no
magister - teacher; nominative singular noun
est - is; third person singular indicative active
praeter - but, except; preposition
hostes - enemy; accusative plural noun "the enemy" is generally written as the plural form os "an enemy (hostis)"

"est" does nto need an explicit subject; the "there" is assumed. Magister is nominative because (although it is the object of the sentence) the Latin verb "to be" (est) acts as an equal sign (=), making the object the same case as the subject (nominative). Latin word order is notoriously flexible, if the words seem to be in a strange order.

Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :

typo I mean illic which is 'there'

but thinking about it, I think it is 'there' such as "over there" ibi might be better

as for 'est' I know it does not need an explicit subject if you are refering to a specific object...but in this case I think it would be more clear. Though it is just opinion. It has also been a couple years since I used latin regularly.

lol, though with Latin 'rules' are not all that set.

my dictionary said praeter is "beyond" and that tamen is but/however

[ October 09, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Lupus ]

Posted by Dante (Member # 1106) on :

I would probably say Non est magister praeter hostem.

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

Praeter translates most closely to "except." To me, that was the closest word to use.

And I wasn't explaining est to you. [Smile]

esl asked for someone to parse the Latin for him, and I just wanted to be clear.

Hostem is singular, so it would translate as "There is no teacher but an enemy." "The enemy," as a collective, is clearer as a plural.

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

"Praeter" was one of my favorite Latin words.

I wrote part of the eulogy for my Latin teacher. (my dad wrote the eulogy and included my piece)
I loved that man, an ex-Jesuit priest with the best sense of humor of anyone I have ever met in my life.

I loved taking Latin, and would love to take it again some day.

Posted by Grigori (Member # 6917) on :

Wow... Thanks to everyone for their input, but in my hindisght I realize I failed to be specific enough. What I was actually hoping for was a translation of the whole quote:

There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will ever tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you.

Of course I realize this a bit more involved, so I apologize for not being specific. Thanks for your patience.

Posted by esl (Member # 3143) on :

Thanks muchly Eaquae Legit! That's good to know. And I'm a her, not him [Smile]

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

Lemme give this a stab. (I'll have to fix syntax later, thought.)

There is no teacher but the enemy.
Non Magister est praeter hostes.
No one but the enemy will ever tell you what the enemy is going to do.
Nemo praeter hostes umquam dicabit quid hostes facturi sunt.
No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer.
Nemo praeter hostes umquam te discebit ut corrumpere superareque.
Only the enemy shows you where you are weak.
Solum hostes te exhibent ubi es debilis.
Only the enemy tells you where he is strong.
Solum hostes te dicent ubi est fortis.
And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you.
Et leges ludi sunt quid posses facere ei et quid posses desinere eum facenti tibi.

(facturi sunt, ut, and facenti I'm not sure on and I don't have my grammar to check. And like I said, the syntax is ugly, but it's too late at night to be stylistic.)

And esl: [Blushing]

Sorry.

[ October 10, 2004, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Eaquae Legit ]

Posted by esl (Member # 3143) on :

Not a problem; it's to be expected with a gender neutral name.

Thank you for translating so much. It's very cool.

Posted by Grigori (Member # 6917) on :

[Hail]

Wow... Eaquae Legit, you rule! Thank you so much!

[ October 11, 2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Grigori ]

Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :

Now I'm trying to figure out how to say "my cat's breath smells like catfood" in latin. The corpus of Simpson's translated into Latin would surely open a new dimension of geekiness.

Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :

Didn't someome translate some Dr. Suess into Latin?

Wow... I haven't done any real Latin translation since my senior year in high school. I wish I wasn't so lazy... [Razz]

Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :

Yes, someone did.

I have on my bookshelf a copy of Quomodo Invidiosulus Nomine Grinchus Christi Natalem Abrogaverit.

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

*ahem* That you got as a present from... ?

Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :

Have I mentioned recently that my sister is one of the best present-choosers in the known universe?

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

I have that in Latin too. Totally awesome. And Harrius Potter. Which is awesome, but tougher to read than Dr. Seuss.

Posted by Grigori (Member # 6917) on :

Just a quick afterthought:

Has the syntax been verified and can anyone double-check it? (Not that I am doubting Legit, but I want to be certain.)

Thanks again for all the input.

Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :

I always loved Winnie Ille Pooh. [Big Grin]

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

Wouldn't it be Harrius Potterius?

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

If Carpe Diem is seize the day, what is "seize the night?"

Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :

Someone else should probably check the grammar. I'm better at Latin to English than English to Latin.

carpe noctem is "sieze the night."

And, well, Harrius Potter is how they decided to do it. "Potter" becomes third declension, while "Harry" becomes second. [Dont Know]