This is my fist decent computer, and my first decent internet connection (DSL rocks), so I have a question....
Someone told be a litle about bittorrent, and I am a bit worried about the security of leting someone download from my computer, which it seems like this program does. Actually, it seems like that is the entire premise the program is designed for, to allow my computer to join with a "swarm" of others, increasing download speeds by utilizing my bandwith.
Does anyone have a lot of experience with using this? It seems to be pretty popular, so I want it, but I am uncomportable not knowing more about the security isses.
Kwea
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
I use Bittorrent all the time. I love it. What exactly are your concerns? Are you worried that people will be able to download any file they want from your computer? I've never heard of anything like that happening with Bittorrent. With Bittorrent, you have to explicitly launch a file for upload or download (at least that's how it works with the "official" client). Usually what happens is that you are uploading bits of the file at the same time you are downloading, though it's good ettiquette to leave the file open after you finish downloading it so that the file is well seeded.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
I don't believe there are any security issues.
You download a torrent file, which has a key (hash) the program uses to verify the correctness of the data it downloads for the file. Then you share what you have of that file to others, who do the same for you. A seeder is what makes this work. That seeder has a copy of the entire file, and uploads different pieces to different people. Those people help out by uploading their pieces to others who don't have 'em yet.
(You probably knew how a torrent works, but at least other people can read the mini explanation)
I assume that the only way for the security of your computer to be affected is if the actual client is the problem, not the torrent file. If someone makes a malicious version of the client, then the program could do bad things. But the solution is only to use the official program, this one.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
BTW, the important part of bittorrent is being able to find the torrents. There's one very public tracker out there, but I've heard that the MPAA has been sending cease and desists from data they've collected from that site. Unlike Kazaa, you're only sharing a single file at a time so it's not like they're going to pummel you for ($$$)(328 illegal mp3s)=$$$$$.
I stick to private trackers.
There are many legal uses for torrents. Blizzard uses torrents, as do many Linux distributions. It's perfect for immediate release of large, popular files.
Posted by BookWyrm (Member # 2192) on :
Can anyone email me some torrent links? The ones I have been using have gone 'private' meaning they want my money now. Ain't got none to give them and I'm also leary of handing out such info over the web to individuals like that.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
By the way, in the fine print most ISPs have a limit on upload/download data per month. I think my own is something like 30 gig download, 7 gig upload. This includes all websurfing, e-mails, and files. Bittorrent, since you upload while you download, easily hits that 7 gig upload max. Usually an ISP isn't going to yell at you unless other people are affected, but it's within their rights unfortunately.
So, make sure you don't go overboard.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I too use bittorrent, and have never heard heard of any security problems with it.
Posted by Nato (Member # 1448) on :
You don't need to use the official client to avoid security problems. There are plenty of clients out there that are not only secure, but are a great improvement over the official version. (Shad0w's Experimental/BitTornado and Azureus for instance.)
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Wraithsword was really into it.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Nato, I agree that a lot of clients are quite fine. But for the paranoid, I'd suggest the official version. Usually anything offered on sourceforge will be fine, as those are fairly popular and open source.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
I just started using bittorrent. Then MGM sent an email to my school (I'm living in the dorms and therefore using the school connection). So no more bittorrent for me.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Yeah, the movie industry is really down on bittorrent, becuase it gets used to illegally download a lot of movies. So they are making an attack on bittorrent users (despite its legal uses), and they are doing it much more aggressively, quietly and inteligently than the music industry. I haven't heard of anybody being sued yet though just: "we have our eye on you, do it again and we'll sue" that kinda thing.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Heh.
I may have to draw from the collective experience to see if I can manage get a BitTorrent connection up and running.
Much later, though.
-Trevor
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Dammit, I just crashed...first time ever.
I have a firewall and virus scan, but I was wondering if anyone has ever gotten a virus from bittorrent, as the info comes from other peoples computers and they might not have the same security measures I have.
Also, I was afraid that I might give it access, and lose control of my computer, and that others would be able to bypass my firewall, as I had granted access.
Dabbler, I did read all the FAQ at the site, so that is the only reason I knew that a torrent was, so thatns for the rehash. I always like to confirm what I have read on a site from an independent source, as they could be lying...
The site could be, htat is...
I only heard about this in the thread here at Hatrack about Jon Stewart on Crossfire, and I needed it to view the show in question. I was amazed by what was offered once I went to some sites.
Kwea
[ October 28, 2004, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I've been using bittorrent for years now and it's never once made my pc crash, given me a virus, or done anything negative(other than eat up my bandwidth that is!).
And the thing is, i mostly use it to download tv shows. new and old. plus tv specials like Nova, PBS, BBC and History Channel type stuff. My hard drive is packed with it.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
You can only get a virus from bittorrent if the thing you're trying to download is itself a virus. Otherwise you can't for all practical purposes (due to how hashing works mathematically).
You should be safe if you just download the files, and then check them for viruses.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Thanks....anyone have anything to add?
I put it on my computer....now does anyone have any other sites to recommend?
Huge site of bittorrents. Just make sure its .org and not .net or .com!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Cool...I think that is where I got bittorrent from...any others?
Kwea
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I am going to open up my firewall for bittorrent tomorrow, thatnks for all the info on it.
Kwea
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
OK, now I am confused...
I went through the steps provided to open up my firewall, in order to stop leeching and try and speed up my downloads, but it says I am still a leech.
I have MacAfee Personal firewall plus, so I went to utilities and then into system services. I then added bittorrent, from ports 6881 to 6999, as mentioned in the directions.
So when I treid to download, I noticed it was really slow...so I went to the link on the page where I got the download and clicked on it. That site, where the torrent was coming from, said that there was 1 seed and 131 leeches...and the site I came from said 131 downloaders, including me.
That means I am still leeching, despite my efforts. I think.
Remember, I might have missed something simple, as I have little to no experience with computers before this one.
I DID check the little box within the firewall, which is what you have to do top make sure you manually opened the ports.
Any ideas?
Kwea
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Also, I just ran Natcheck, and it failed to connect. It said that either a client wasn't running on that port (the default said to use port 6881, as that is the port it uses first) or that I needed to change my firewall to allow access....which I thought I already had done. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Kwea and Bookwyrm, www.etree.org has all kinds of downloads in SHN and BitTorrent. There is also another one called FLAC. Mu husband is the music download guru, but that site has directions, good ones, for all kinds of downloads, as well s a rich source of live, legal, free music.
Kwea, I am sure Steve would talk you through something if you got stuck and want to call. We have never had an issue with BitTorrent.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Hah, don't worry. you _are_ a leecher. A seeder is someone who has the entire file and is only uploading, no downloading. Leechers are their friendly way of saying that you don't have all of the file yet.
And in the beginning, your download will be slow because it works on a formula of how well you've been uploading. Once you have enough data to send to people, your speed will slowly ramp up. Give it about 5-10 minutes after starting the torrent to reach a steady state. At that point it should be giving you an upload speed. Remember, you can't upload what you don't have.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"Remember, you can't upload what you don't have. "
I wish the authors of "No Child Left Behind" had heeded these words, Suneun!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Suneun, thanks....but now I have another question...big suprise there, huh?
I came home and my computer had shut down in the middle of a download...so instead of having the file when I got home, I have a file that is 11% done after 9 hours..
How do I stop that from happening every time Ileave it alone to download?
I have Verizon DSL, and I have really enjoyed having it...it is very fast, except for this for some reason.
Also, the definiton of a leecher according to the web site is someone who cannot connect to anyone other than the host client (that is the one who loaded the torrent in the first place, right?), ans therefore isn't giving back to the swarm...which in turn limits his/her own download speed, as he cannot recieve any files from anyone but the host as well.
It lists firewalls as the most likely source of this.
Not that I am saying you are wrong, I just don't completely understand all of this...
Also, the FAQ says..
quote:Sometimes, limiting your upload rate will increase your download rate. This is especially true for asymmetric connections such as cable and ADSL, where the outbound bandwidth is much smaller than the inbound bandwidth. If you are seeing very high upload rates and low download rates, this is probably the case. The reason this happens is due to the nature of TCP/IP -- every packet received must be acknowledged with a small outbound packet. If the outbound link is saturated with BitTorrent data, the latency of these TCP/IP ACKs will rise, causing poor efficiency.
Use a client that allows limiting of the upload rate, and set it to around 80% of the maximum rate observed. It can be tempting to limit the rate to very small values. On very healthy torrents, this will not adversely affect the download rate. However, when there are fewer peers you will generally get higher download rates by allowing the highest upload rate possible before saturating the link -- the (approx.) 80% sweet spot.
I can't figure out how to limit the upload rate as it was much higher than the download reate. I don't want to limit it too much, but for most of my first download the upload rate was more than double the download rate.
There is even a way to edit the bittorrent code, but I don't know what all of that is, so when I teied to do it I botched it and had to remove my edits....I couldn't fugure out what the <arg> was or if it was necessary, or where to put the actual limit (I was going to try 11) in the new code...lol....
Kwea
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Great...now it won'r download it at all.
I log on, and it goes up to a fast 2KiB transfer rate...ehn it drops to 0...both incoming and outgoing.
I left it alone for 1/2 an hour, and it hadn't moved at all.
SO I tought I might have screwed it up mesing with the code, so I deleted it and reloaded ibittorrent....and there was no change.
This sucks. Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Mkay.
Well a leecher can mean someone who isn't giving back. But in your example, you said that it posted 1 seeder and 131 leechers. In that case, they just mean that there's one seeder, and 131 people who are swarm downloading/uploading. If you're getting an upload rate, then you're not a classic leecher. Classic leechers are the kind who log into an ftp server, download lots of stuff, then leave.
Your connection might be flaky, and might drop occasionally. I don't have any solutions for that. You may not be getting very good download because there may not be a lot to get.
I've been downloading a package of files that hasn't finished because it's missing a useful seeder. Instead, it gets to the point where all the 'leechers' have all the pieces each other have. Then you just sit and wait for someone to come on who has more than you.
Bittorrent's only for the patient. That package? Been downloading it since August. No biggie, I'd just like it to finish some time.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
OK, thatks for the clarification, that is why I was confused about the leeching bit. How could I be a leech when I was uploading at twice the rate I was downloading at?
Just because it didn't make sense to me didn't mean it couldn't be happening though, that is for sure.
I pick up on things like this fairly quick, but since I am self-taught every once and a while something like bittorrent comes along , adn I have no clue what to do, or ow it is supposed to work, so thnks again for the info!
Does anyone else have an idea what I can do to prevent my connection from dropping out? I haven't had a problem with that before this, though....although I never downloaded large files before either.
How about suggestions for limiting my upload rate?
I deleted bittorrent again, and loaded it, and now it seems to be fine, I am downloading a file at about 16 KiB/hour.
I guess I need to just settle in and wait, huh?
Kwea
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
You can limit your upload rate with certain clients but not others. I use a program called Azareus when I want to limit my upload (like websurf simultaneously). Might only be for the mac, though. Someone else can pipe in with a PC client that has easy upload limits.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Is there such a program for windows that works, or can someone tell me how to properly modify the bittorrent code line to limit the upload capacity that way?
Also, what happens when I can't download, or I get disconnected? Can I just pick up form where I left off using the smae stuff I had already partially downloaded, or do I have to delete that and start all over again?
Kwea
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I am just not understanding this bittorrent thing at all. When I first skimmed this topic, I really thought it didn't apply to me since I don't download very much at all. I never heard of bittorrent. So the fact that your conversation was all going entirely over my head didn't bother me in the least.
But I had to start my computer over from scratch last week so I have different icons on my computer than I used to and I just noticed yesterday that I have a bittorrent icon that says Bittorrent3.2.1. So what does this mean? Is this just some program that you are using to download things quicker? Or is it some dangerous program that got through my firewall? How did it get on my desktop? Should I just delete it or what? Having it just show up like that is worrying me.
(Of course I just reloaded everything I usually use including my dsl program, AIM, etc plus added the firefox browser so it could have come in with any of those things)
[ October 31, 2004, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
I would definitely recommend using Azureus. It's the best bittorrent client I've used so far, and it's very simple to limit the upload speed. You just go to View > Configuration > Transfer and set "KB/s global max upload speed" to something like 5. Azureus is free, works fine with Windows, and is easy to use.
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
quote:Also, what happens when I can't download, or I get disconnected? Can I just pick up form where I left off using the smae stuff I had already partially downloaded, or do I have to delete that and start all over again?
No need to delete. It will pick up from where it left off. I have been known to cancel a download in the middle if it's too slow or if I need to reboot for some other reason, and start it up again later. Always works fine.
I can't help with the download speed issue, as I am not being a firewall (one of these days I will install one again). Sometimes if something is not seeded well, I don't get good speeds (read: NONE), so the only thing to do is to try again later, or look for a better source. I eventually switched to IRC for some downloads, as it just wasn't happening on Bittorrent.
Still love Bittorrent to peices, though.
Theca, the program is not doing any harm by being on your computer. It won't automatically launch or anything. Delete it if you want, but it's not necessary. Bittorrent DOES speed up downloads, but it is mostly used for large files (TV shows, applications, etc), so if you are not downloading those kind of things, you probably don't need it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
SO...to get Azureus where do I go and wht do I do?
I googled it and found the site, but when i try to find the download for it I can't seem to find it. I didn't have a lot of time to look, to be honest....does anyone have a link to it I can have?
Is it a new client? A client is a site that downloads this all, right? I see the owerd being used all the time, but I haven't really gotten a definition of it....
Kwea
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Generic definitions (YMMV)
server: computer that hosts files, allowing people to connect and download.
hub: a central program that helps connect other computers together so they can share files among themselves.
client: program that allows a user to download files
tracker: for bittorrent, a computer that hosts the hash file, and has the connection information for all involved computers using a specific torrent. for hotline, a tracker is a program that has a listing of names and IPs of a large number of servers that you can then connect to.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Thanks again, Suneun, those were pretty much what I had gathered, but I didn't find the definitions anywhere so I wasn't sure.
How do you resume a download that have been interrupted..either by yourself or ramdomly by your DSL provider....You kow, when half a file has been loaded? I know I shouldn't have to start over by what you said earlier, but I can't figure it out.
BTW Suneun, it is a good thing you didn't go to Salem with JenniK and I...I ended up in the hospital, passing a kidney stone. It came out of nowhere, and really messed me up!
Kwea
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Oh no, I'm so sorry. Kidney stones are really painful, aren't they?
Most programs, when you download the file it asks where you want to download it. If you choose the same folder that it used when it was downloading originally, it will automatically resume. It should ask you, "Do you want to overwrite?" if it thinks they're not the same files. You can copy the partly done file over to somewhere else just in case if you'd like.
Besides that, I don't know.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Yeah, I spent the whole day in bed trying to pass the damn stone. Last night they gave me 3 shots of morphine and I could STILL feel it! I had no history of them, and no family history of them either.
It was pretty scary, because it come on you with no warning at all, and really knocks you for a loop. I was in line for the bathroom, adn started having a really painful ache in my lower right side abdomen, with inremittent sharp pains. Jenni and I headed to the car, because I knew this wasn't just indegestion...I had already decided that she was going to take me to the hospital, but I haddn't told her yet as i didn't wan to freak her out.
Then I threw up over a small fence..and of course everyone stared, and laughed a bit, thinking I was drunk....but I had not had one drink, not one at all! Then when we crossed the road, I threw up again, right in front of the Ambulance drivers who were stationed there. They thought I was drunk, but I told them I needed help and that I wasn't drunk.
They took me to Salem hospital, and I used 3 barf bags on the way there....so they thought I might have food poisoning at that point.
The Doctor thought it might me my gall bladder, or a kidney problem, and a CAT scan revealed a 3.5 mm stone that was already 3/4ths the way through. All they could do was medicate me and keep me hydrated...and release me 3 hours later.
I just passed it about 2 hours ago, and it wasn't fun.
Happy Halloween, huh?
Did you have fun this Halloween?
Kwea
Posted by chase (Member # 6988) on :
you well be fine. if your to concernd find yourself a torrent for an antivirus
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Chase, I already have 2 of them, but my mom had two as well, but she got her computer really screwed up even with them active.
Suneun, I downloaded Azureus and I think I have figured it out....at least enough to get started. I will see if it works well, but I think I like it already....it was very easy to limit the upload speed.
Kwea
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
How many torrents can you download at one time with azureus? I have 3 selected, but only one at a time is downloading, adn I can't figure out how to do more than one at a time.
Am I better off doing it one at a time?
Kwea
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
Choose force download.
Plus, not having read most of this thread I suggest you check your Azureus preferences and make sure your maximum upstream isn't too high. I set mine to 10Kbs... if you're on a DSL connection, massive upload speeds can flood your entire connection, effectively reducing your download speed. It can take some time experimenting with settings to balance this out.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Troub....thanks. Suneun had already suggested the upload restrictions to me, which is the reason I am using Azureus in the first palce...it makes it easy to do.
I wasn't sure what the force download button did, but when I tried it it seemed to stop the first download I had begun in favor of he second one.
I will give it a try, though.
Kwea
[ November 01, 2004, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I am STILL having problems with port forwarding, I think...I am now getting a NAT error when I test my ports.
I have tried opening the ports in my McAfee Personal Firewall, and I have even opened them in the windows firewall even though I have that turned off, because some of the info I read says that it can sometimes turn itself back on at random times...but nothing changes it.
From what I understand this means that I can initiate connections with others, but that others can't initiate contact with me, so it severely limits how fast I can download things.
Also, I have a DSL modem/connection, with a Westell modem for it...connected to an Ethernet card, I believe....I only have the one computer so I don't believe I am using a router. A router is what allows multiple computers to log on to the Internet via one Internet connection, right? As in a wireless router, for laptops....
I have gone into the firewall and opened the ports, but I am at a loss on how to port-forward, or if I even need to do so...but it mentions something about DSL connections possibly needing to do so......and i have never had anything other than a yellow face in the health bar in Azureus....
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
What exactly are your concerns? Are you worried that people will be able to download any file they want from your computer? I've never heard of anything like that happening with Bittorrent. With Bittorrent, you have to explicitly launch a file for upload or download (at least that's how it works with the "official" client). Usually what happens is that you are uploading bits of the file at the same time you are downloading, though it's good ettiquette to leave the file open after you finish downloading it so that the file is well seeded.
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![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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It came out of nowhere, and really messed me up!