Hatrack River Forum: Emigration Call...

This is topic Emigration Call... in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

(Heh heh, this is half serious half in good fun so don't eat me)

Feeling let down or ignored by your country?

Tired of living on the right side of the tracks?

Tired of the fun being taken out of fundamentalism?

Don't forget your friendly neighbours to the North! It's just like the USA, without the grimy bits. There's plenty of room and the doors are always open. [Big Grin]

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

But isn't Canada (to quote Robin Williams) a loft apartment over a really good party?

You know you wish your country was as screwed up as this one. [Wink]

Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :

There will be punch and pie.

Vive La Resistance!

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

What kind of pie?

Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :

I would think they'd have pretty strict immigration laws. Does anyone know the rules about moving to Canada?

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

But... it's cold in Canada. Well, colder than I'm used to in Louisiana.

Can we have hot cocoa and s'mores instead?

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

quote:
Does anyone know the rules about moving to Canada?

You have to get points but anyone here'd qualify.

*prepares hot chocolate, smores, taffy...*

It's cold but we've got snow in the winter, can't say that about Louisiana, eh?

[ November 03, 2004, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

Points? NOW I'm curious.

And would it help matters that Bernard's father is a citizen of Canada? [Wink]

Toretha's gonna kill me if she sees this thread.

[ November 03, 2004, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: MaydayDesiax ]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

Well my understanding of it is that you have to have something to recommend you, i.e. a way to support yourself etc etc etc. These points mount up.

But I don't think it'd be hard for an American to get in.

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

That's not too bad. Although I'll bet the paperwork takes ages.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

You know, if my wife weren't someone who desperately needs a lot of heat and sunlight, I'd be up for moving to Canada. It seems like a pretty great country. I have thought about looking for a job in Austrailia before, but I never did hear back from the Austrailian consulting companies I contacted a few years back. Maybe I should try again (note--this isn't because of Kerry's losing the election; I just enjoy mixing it up every now and then, and it's about time for a move).

Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :

I'd probably have a free ride into Canada if I wanted one, considering that Juliette is a Canadian citizen.

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

Going by my friend who recently emigrated from the UK to Canada, about 18-24 months (that's for the entire process).

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

Or Australia, Australia's good too, although I know nothing about it other than Kangaroos and desert. [Smile]

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

Actually, in all seriousness, if Bernard and I moved after we got married, it would probably be New Zealand. That child and his LotR obsession...

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

<--- Going to visit NZ too, to see what it's like.

I'm a person without roots, all three are places where I'd like to live.

Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :

You forgot:

Tired of being called a Shatner-stealing-Mexico-toucher? [Big Grin]

Actually, I'd really like to live in Vancouver....

[ November 03, 2004, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: ludosti ]

Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :

You know, I've never been called a Shatner-stealing-Mexico-toucher before, but I kind of wish I had.

Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :

quote:
Canada? Why should we leave America to visit America Junior?

Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :

Mayday: well, Toretha does prefer the north. Like, Maine and Canada north.

Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :

No thank you. Love where I am, thanks for asking. [Smile]

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

fugu: What I meant was that she personally told me that if I moved out of the country, she'd follow me and beat me.

That girl can be violent at times. And I think she was joking. But still, let's not risk it, no?

Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :

Perhaps she was joking and telling the truth? [Wink]

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

Heh. With her, probably.

Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :

quote:
Canada? Why should we leave America to visit America Junior?

I don't mind the name American Junior, since children are usually more open-minded than their parents.

Ludosti, my brother lives in Vancouver, and it's a really beautiful city. You probably couldn't pick a better Canadian city, if you were really going to move. The climate is certainly a lot nicer than here in Edmonton.

Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :

Noemon you should try New Zealand: all the good things, without the Australians [Evil]

Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :

I'd like to live in Vancouver, too. My problem is that I don't have any really useful skills, so Canada probably wouldn't let me in. [Frown]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

Ironically, I already live in Canada and am planning to move to somewhere even further from America. [Razz]

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

New Zeland doesn't sound like a bad choice at all. Actually, a friend of mine who was a gerontologist was planning to move to New Zeland because he was so frustrated with the American medical system, but he ended up getting out of medicine instead (went back to school, and is now studying bioinfomedics, for those who are interested).

Any idea how heavily used Lotus Notes and Domion are down there?

One thing I'd really like about living in that area would be my proximity to SE Asia. That alone would be enough to make me want to move there.

Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :

Its Bioinformatics [Razz]

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Thanks--what did I say?

::reads what he wrote::

[Laugh]

self.

In my defense, I stayed up *way* too late watching the election coverage.

Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :

*shakes head*

I don't see why people think leaving America because you're upset at one election is a thing to encourage. (not talking to you Sara, obviously you have more than one reason)

If you don't like things, why not stay and try to change them? During eight years of Clinton I never spoke once about leaving my country. I love my country, and even if one election goes a way I'm not happy with, I wouldn't leave it.

If many people who opposed the conservatives this time leave - then aren't you making it even more likely that they will remain in power?

Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :

Yeah, but there isn't a cleaner, brighter, happier conservative country within easy walking distance of America [Razz]

And Sara, if you do wind up in Southern Ontario I'll happily stop by with pie. Or ring the doorbell and leave pie on your doorstep. I cannot, however, be held responsible if a slice of pie is missing when you come for it.

I'm a weak man.

Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :

Not opposed to your website, your dime, your time do what you will with it. If someone wants the information because they seriously consider emigrating, then it will indeed be helpful and you'll be providing a service. That's cool.

I'm opposed to the thinking that you leave when things don't go your way.

It would take a lot more than one election, or even the fears that the country was headed idealogically in a direction opposite me for me to abandon my home. I'd dig in and fight.

Even if there were a nation next door that fit more with my ideals - it's still not my home. I wouldn't uproot my family and move them, I'd stay where I was and fight to make my country better. I'd get involved in local elections and try to make a difference in my immediate area, then work to help spread that difference statewide and nationwide.

Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :

You folks that are leaving...

Can those of us who are staying here have your stuff?

I need a new set of chairs in particular.

Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :

Mayday: I saw this thread. Be afraid. Be very afraid. I still have both pieces of Cudgie.

[ November 03, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Toretha ]

Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :

Yes, part of my value base includes the belief that one doesn't roll over and give up - one fights for what one believes in.

Despite the fact that abortion, for example, is legal and has been for years, I am not one of those Christians that says "Well, it'll never change let's focus on something else." I believe it's murder, I will continue to fight against it in the best way I know how, with my vote, and with everything within my power in accordance with the law and consistent with my values. I won't roll over and admit defeat just because it's an uphill battle to get Roe vs. Wade overturned.

I see this the same way - when Clinton was in power I didn't roll over and say "woe is me, where can I go where I'll be more understood?" I fought for what I believed in.

Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :

People who emigrated to America had their own reaons, and I can only judge each one individually. I know people who came here because they wanted opportunities that didn't exist where they lived, and they wanted to be able to support their children. I can respect that.

I also know many, like my friend Dr. Leon, who came to America, took advantage of its opportunities, got educated, worked, and then returned to Honduras to make a difference in his own homeland. I understand that commitment to one's home - and I respect that too.

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

Toretha: [ROFL]

Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :

[Wink]

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :

"And a series of congratulations on returning home."

Is it your opinion that Canadians would be as eager to welcome American expats?

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

Whose opinion? I'll offer mine, anyway. I think the general feeling is that if you're coming to Canada, then you're absolutely welcome, no matter who you are.

(People-wise, immigration might be a different matter.)

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

One of my ancestors came over from France, to fight in the Civil War. I don't know if it was just because he believed in the cause, but he most certanly didn't *have* to become a spy and courier for the Union. No one is generally coerced into spying and normally there is definitely motivation beyond personal gain for someone to take those kinds of risks. And he paid for it dearly, got thrown in one of the nasty prisions in one of the Carolinas.

As far as my other immgrants ancestors to the U.S. most of them were seeking to escape hunger and poverty, though one group was Mennonite and did endure some religious persecution in their home country of Switzerland. People come today for many of the same economic reasons though I would guess less frequently for the religious reasons, especially now that the cold war is over. Either way they frequently can and do send money and help their relatives back in their home country, whether they stay in the US themselves or not.

AJ

Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :

And I know where you live, and how to get in without being noticed.

Do you want to end up like Tigger?

[ November 03, 2004, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Toretha ]

Posted by Jaiden (Member # 2099) on :

Tom, As far as my experience dictates, it matters on the person.

If you're making Canada your home, yes. If Canada is a temporary place until the US cleans up, then less so.

A lot of Canadian's have relatives and whatnot in the states.

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

Sara I'm confused, even if you moved to Canada with your husband, would you actually renounce your U.S. citizenship or not?

AJ

Posted by Jaiden (Member # 2099) on :

You don't have to renounce your citizenship to the States if you move to Canada.

Duel citizenship is somewhat common [Smile]

I don't know what CT's particulars are, but I'd be rather suprised if she had to give up her citizenship to the US

Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :

you know, people can always move to poland. Just a thought.

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

One day, Kama, one day everyone will flock to Poland.

Posted by Jaiden (Member # 2099) on :

*eyes Kama*
Everybody knows Poland doesn't really exist.

Move to Canada. Canada exists. And it's closer then this imaginary Poland place.

Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :

does too.

Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :

Canada exists, I've been there. While I've met a nice young lady who says she's from Poland, there's no proof it actually exists.

Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :

[I wrote this back in the middle of the last page. You know me though, got distracted and now here it is, late.]

Sara and Belle, I don't see this so much as running away from a fight, or fleeing from persecution. I understand the concept of fighting for what you believe in, Belle. The Civil Rights movement, for example was a good thing. Sara, I see people who immigrate to America as people who were persecuted in their countries (fearing death) or people who were unable to support themselves in their country. Neither of these apply to me.

For me, it's like having a family member who is the head of the KKK, who's also been convicted of rape and murder. And this family member lives in my house and sits on my front porch and spews this information/point of view with every passerby.

Personally, I'm ashamed of this country and I certainly don't want to be associated with it. Why in the world would I care enough to fight with 51% of the people? I have no ties to this country. Other than the fact that I was born here. I mean, my family has been in this country since the 1500s, but there is no sense of history or community or even family in my family. There's no family land, or business, or even region.

So what does it matter where I live? I think the most important thing is how I live and with whom I associate myself. Having grown up amid some very Italian pockets of America, I understand the concept of what family history, family pride, family religion, family land, family business, etc. all look and feel like. Unfortunately, for many northern wasps, there is no sense of that passion. It actually reminds me of the movies Fool's Rush In and My Big, Fat, Greek Wedding. Do you remember the white families in those? That's my family.

And "my" country has never done anything I'm terribly proud of, has on several occasions done something that have mortified me. A few times it has done something I've found to be morally repugnant and sadly, on more than one occasion it has done something I consider to be outright illegal. And the leaders have been doing immoral, if not illegal, things from the get go.

Exactly what kind of allegiance am I supposed to have? It's not the land, it's not a religion, it's not a familial connection. It's an ideal. And the ideal seems to have left the place. I can find the ideal somewhere else. Unlike Republicans, I don't want to force people to live like I do. They can do whatever they like as long as they leave me alone. However, doing what they are doing in my name isn't leaving me alone. It's dragging my name through the mud and putting me in the middle of and threatening the security of my family.

Belle, would you still want to live in this country if the majority enacted legislation that made Islam the National Religion and afforded you no protections because you were Christian? And that 51% of the country was fervently in favor of it? And was telling the entire world that the mandate of the US was clear and Islam was the one true religion and that they would continue some holy war in your name?

Maybe you would, because you seem passionate about your religion, but I don't have anything that moves me that much. For me, it's much more like watching a curling tournament. If I happen to see one while flipping around, I'll watch with interest, but if it breaks out into a bloody brawl, I won't go on a vendetta, I'll just change the channel, because, I haven't got that much invested in it. Though maybe I'll have to learn more about it for the future. [Wink]

Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6704292

quote:
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after President Bush won Tuesday's election should not pack their bags just yet.

Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year.

Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :

You know, men annoy the hell out of me, but I've got to tell you, there is a gaggle of women at Hatrack that is like fingernails down a chalkboard. At least men are fun to play with.

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

[Angst]

That's very scary thing to say, Kayla. [Angst]

Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :

[vally girl] What? You mean we have to, like, WAIT?!

Ugh, no WONDER you people stay up there! [/vally girl]

::hides::

Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :

quote:
though one group was Mennonite and did endure some religious persecution in their home country of Switzerland.

My Mennonite ancestors emigrated from Switzerland to PA too. Maybe we're related. [Smile]

(In any case, my whacko mother and your whacko grandmother were evidently separated at birth... [Mad]

)

Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :

AND YOU SHOULD HIDE!

Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :

Anna Toretha, you're wonderful [Smile]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I mean if you're still an American citizen you can still vote. It's an ideal situation.

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

Actually the Mennonites that I'm related to are in Indiana. Hirschy was the family name, and they have to go back to the canton in Switzerland for quite a while before they get related to the Hershey's in PA (but they are very, very distantly related)

Also my family were rebels for Mennonites. Several of them defied their religious authorities and got educations. I know one of them was the first person in his area to recieve a non-theological higher education degree.

Lol, the ones that actually live in PA, have no actual historical family ties to the area except as they have married into local families. My grandfather that lives there now had parents that arrived as Bohemian immigrants into Chicago. My most fundamentalist grandmother's ancestors, are the only branch that I don't know exactly when they immgrated, but there is Scotch-Irish-English there (one of the family names is Logan) and a history of shady dealing river boat captains, (Captain Fix) whose son became the MD Dr. Fix and ended up as a plantation owner when his patients gave him land instead of money.

AJ

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

The story of how my Hirschy relatives came to the US.

Mrs. Hirschy was married and had 7 or 8 living children. Her brother had emmigrated to the US because he could own more land there. Her husband died, and things were tough, lots of mouths to feed not enough food and money. Her brother wrote and told her that there was plenty of farmland in the U.S. sent her some money and told her to get married and come over. She married the farmhand, who was about 15 years younger than her. Another child (the farmhand's) I believe was born in transit to the U.S (and less than 9 months after the marriage too though the guy stayed married to her.) They ended up in the northeastern area of Indiana, where Hirschy's (the descendants the children of husband #1) live to this day.

AJ

[ November 03, 2004, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

MENNONITES!!!!! I can't believe there are descendants of Mennonites on this board! Other than me, I mean!!!!

But I'm from Dutch Mennonite stock, and my ancestors came to Canada 1874-1876 and settled in the Red River Valley in Manitoba, Canada. And I'm 100% Mennonite - parents are second cousins, and third cousins, and fourth cousins. Oh, it's scary. I'm related to myself in 49 different ways that I know of. And believe me, I wish I was kidding on that one.

My parents were the rebels who left the religion/culture, although two of my siblings have since sorta returned, but not to orthodox. But that's a whole other long and drawn out lecture.

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I definately don't pass. Heh.

EDIT: I lose out on age and education. I thought it was waaaay easier. That's really odd though, there are tons of people who immigrate here without those requirements!

EDIT #2: I have 36 points.

[ November 03, 2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

Yikes! I don't pass either.

Guess it's a good thing I'm already Canadian, eh?

Oh, wait. But I don't wanna live in Canada. [Dont Know]

Posted by BYSOAL (Member # 3846) on :

Here, allow me to help.

B.Y.S.O.A.L.

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

BYSOAL, interesting information. Thanks.

Luckily, I'm neither American, nor am I currently residing in North America. I have legally - by marriage - earned the legal right to reside elsewhere. And happily, to boot. [Big Grin]

For all the rest of you poor suckers still stuck there - [Hat]

Good luck! [Evil Laugh]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

I can't write what I want to in this post. It would all be curse words.

I'm crushed. I thought my country was a welcoming place.

[Frown]

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

Dang. It will be years before I can move to Canada. I would love to live there because there's a lot of space, cold winters and legalized gay marriage...
*Could convince a Candian girl to marry me* *Actually knows one too*
I could also always get another bachelor's degree and a masters in something or another!!!
Or, I could just become a pro-writer very, very soon like NOW.

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

Oh hey, Sara, I'm actually so apolitical that I, uh, lost the flow of what I was going to say. [Confused]

In truth, the biggest reasons I wanted to leave Canada were, and in no particular order:

* the taxes. Too darn high.
* I wanted to see the world. Canada is not the world. And while travelling is good, it offers limited cultural understanding, hence the desire to live elsewhere
* the final reason? The man I married.

But as for leaving because I was mad or angry or hated the politics? No, just the taxes. The rest? Well, like I said, I don't care. I'm very Canadian in that respect - apathetic. [Dont Know]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I know how you feel, twinky. I thought it was way easier too. [Frown]

EDIT: quidscribis, I know how you feel. Being a half-and-half person, I know I would like to move around more of the world. It's not my goal to live in one place all my life and get attached to it like it's mine.

Canada's like a house: Nice for the moment but I'll need a change soon.

[ November 04, 2004, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

Syn, that's one of the huge advantages to living in a third world country. My hubby earns enough to support us, and I don't need to work. Plus because the local currency is worth so little, any money I earn from writing from North America/Europe/the civilized world is relatively worth so much that it makes a huge difference, that it actually makes financial sense for me to be a writer. As in, not be employed elsewhere but spend my time on writing.

Now to focus. Dang! I get sidetracked so easily!!! [Wall Bash]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

As I just said to someone, this seriously turns part of my world on its head. I grew up being proud of multiculturalism and diversity in Canada despite having been born and raised in one of the whitest, most devoutly Christian parts of the country. After five years in and around some major urban centres, I can honestly say that at least in urban areas Canadians just don't bat an eye when it comes to racial and cultural things, it's all good.

I always believed that this was because Canada was a welcoming place, letting lots of people in. Obviously I was mistaken.

And I can't even curse about it here!

[Frown]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I certainly see a lot of people around who are immigrants and they aren't "skilled workers" with PhDs, they're ordinary hardworking people. There must be another way of entry.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

Here are the options.

[Frown]

Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :

I am making all my guy friends promise to apply to at least one college out of the country in anticipation of a possible draft. Yeah, sure everyone says they're not going to have one, but we all know how they lie...Do you think disco will come back into style as well as border crossing? [Smile]

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

Irratating.
I doubt that writers count as skilled workers.
It is sort of my dream to live there. Canada is so pretty and interesting.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

Well, with the popularity of the dance/rock hybrid these days, you never know...

Edit: Syn, it isn't JUST skilled workers who can immigrate... but the rules... boy, are they ever not what I thought. Honestly, this completely wrecks my image of my country and bruises my sense of patriotism a bit.

[ November 04, 2004, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: twinky ]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I guess the self-employed class is the best way to get in, it seems to be the most vague. If you can support yourself in something you've been doing for "a while", you can theoretically get in.

I guess there has to be some restrictions... [Frown]

EDIT: Syn, I think that writers count as self-employed. (edit of edit- I should really check that other people have edited their posts before I edit mine!)

[ November 04, 2004, 12:58 AM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

Marry a citizen of whatever country you want to move to. That's one of the easiest ways. Of course, it helps if you want to marry him anyway. . . [Kiss]

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

Sarah! You're so sweet!!! [Blushing]

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

And then there's the illegal method. Go for a visit and never return.

A lot of people do that. A lot. [Mad]

Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :

I wonder what schools are like in Canada.
I want to go back to college, I just don't want to be graded. [Big Grin]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

quote:
I guess there has to be some restrictions...

Sure, but for f*@%'s sake, *I* couldn't move here. I have an engineering degree, two years of work experience in my field (admittedly, co-op work experience while I was at school, but work experience nonetheless), no debts, passable command of both official languages, and family in the country.

The thought that if I had been born somewhere else Canada wouldn't want me is pretty upsetting, especially given that the Kiwis (and, by extension, the Aussies) are quite likely to accept me with open arms, no questions asked.

[Frown]

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

Hmmmm. Without factoring in work experience, which I don't have time to figure out right now, I would need 19 more points to qualify to move to Canada. So I'd probably need to get another degree and take some French courses if I wanted to do it. How interesting.

Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :

W00t, I qualify as a skilled worker.

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

Okay, so I couldn't help myself and checked anyway. Assuming I get full points for English mastery, with my work experience I pass. And since I wouldn't try without a job offer, I'd get more points there, too. Sara, are you sure you wouldn't qualify without David? I only have a 4 year degree, so either I'm counting something wrong or you are.

[ November 04, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: ElJay ]

Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :

Mine score's 68, and only because I have basic listening and reading skills in French. I wouldn't qualify otherwise.

quote:

1 Education 25 25
2 Language Ability 24 18
3 Work Experience 21 15
4 Age 10 10
5 Arranged Employment 10 0
6 Adaptability 10 0
Total Score 100 68

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

Ah, okay. Whereas I came out of a 4 year undergrad and went straight to work. Mine's:

Education 20 or 22, I'm not sure exactly where my degree falls.
Language 16
Age 10
Work experience 21

Total 67 or 69.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

Well, there are also the province-specific exemptions. If a province wants you they can "invite" you to immigrate and you can bypass the harsher general immigration rules.

But still. *stops waving Canadian flag around*

[Frown]

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

Yeah, and why would a province want you? Probably only if you are a doctor and they are short on doctors, or something similar. It is highly unlikely I would fit into one of those categories.

Still, this was mostly an academic exercise for me. [Smile]

I'm okay with Canada not wanting me.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

That was directed mostly at Sara, who does want to come here. [Wink]

But now that my pride in my country has been crushed, I'm not quite sure how to feel. [Frown]

Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :

twinky, Canada is innundated with applicants. There has to be some sort of process. I get your pain, though.

Why not do a little further research and see if you can work toward changing things? Might that help?

Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :

I told David about your reaction. He is sympathetic, too.

(((twinky)))

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

Let me tell you a story. My good friend Eric was once at a job interview and he was asked if he'd had any direct experience with diversity. He couldn't think of anything offhand and so blabbered on about diversity in the workplace and stuff. Then he came home, smacked himself on the forehead, and said:

"I'm so stupid! I'm from Alberta. I live with a black guy, a Palestinian/Kiwi, and a crazy frenchman from Québec, born in Moose Jaw, lived in Germany for a long time! I LIVE with diversity!"

My generation is so acclimatized to diversity that we simply don't notice it. Whenever my parents came to visit me in Waterloo they would always comment on the number of Asian students or Indian and Pakistani students (of which there were quite a lot). The first time they pointed it out I looked at them as though they had two heads, I just hadn't noticed.

Like I said, I always thought that this diversity existed because Canada was welcoming. Obviously it is not. That really saddens me. I've lost some respect for my country. [Frown]

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

*sigh* Okay. Fine. Be that way. [Wink]

You still have a lot to be proud about twinky. Otherwise so many of us wouldn't be interested, even on a mostly academic level.

Edit: Okay, I'm slow, and you clarified. I'd like to point out that your country must be welcoming, or you wouldn't have all that diversity. Aren't y'all very welcoming of refugees? Frankly, I'd rather you be able to accomadate more people who are moving because they are being persecuted in their own country and have less room for us spoiled upper-middle class white people who are pissy with their own populance.

[ November 04, 2004, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: ElJay ]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

Thanks, Sara.

Further research might be worthwhile. I'll look deeper, but in one of life's little ironies I'm already working on leaving the country anyway. [Razz]

Still.

Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :

It's true. Canada has the most diverse cities in the world, by the data. More foreign-born residents and more second-generation residents, too.

Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :

71 points for me.

-Bok

Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :

Yeah, getting into Canada is like playing British Bulldog. There are a lot of people trying to tackle you on your way across the border, but if you get across, you're home free. You can delay your hearings for upwards to a decade at which point, even if it's decided not to let you stay based on your claim you can say, "but I've been here a decade!" and we'll let you stay. It's also a delicate system we have here, with our extensive system of safety nets. There's a very large, very real fear of people inundating the country and taking advantage of something they have not paid into and collapsing our system. So the immigration office tries to make sure only contributing members of society/those seeking asylum get in. I don't know that I agree with it, but I understand.

I think the first thing that needs fixing is making it easier for people to get jobs once they're here. It's stupid that we claim we're just making sure we're getting people who can contribute and then don't let them contribute once they're here. Have you talked to cab drivers about their degrees? I can't count the number with PhDs that I've talked to. It's unreal. When I was TAing there were some people that had higher degrees than I did, but their courses weren't transferable so they had to do several years worth of schooling here before they could work in their field. Again, I understand the principle and the logic behind the system, but I think it's antiquated.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

[Frown]

Posted by tt&t (Member # 5600) on :

quote:
the Kiwis (and, by extension, the Aussies) are quite likely to accept me with open arms, no questions asked.

*hugs twinky* Damn skippy.

I know how this whole thing makes you feel, and I'm sorry, Raja. [Frown]

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

It might not be as hard as you think.

quote:
So just how hard is it for an American to become a Canuck? A recent Harper's article suggested that bailing from Dick Cheneyville entailed a rather onerous legal dance. "It's not difficult at all," says Cohen. Basically all you need is a B.A. and a passing fluency in English and "Bingo, you're in."

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

*blink*

Or, there's another option.

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

Hmmmmmm.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

*hugs Kylie*

Thanks. [Smile]

...though, to be fair, the reason the Kiwis and Aussies won't mind taking me is that I'll have Kiwi citizenship. But from what I've been reading, the Aussies at least really WOULD welcome me with open arms, even without a Kiwi citizenship -- they even have an official government program to get recent graduates (particularly in technical fields) working in Australia.

rivka, do they mention which issue of Harper's that bit about immigration is in? I just so happen to have a current subscription to Harper's... I'm looking, but I don't see it anywhere yet.

The Salon article does make reference to the skilled worker test though:

quote:
To put down roots in Canada, you need a permanent residence visa. First, you fill out a scorecard that awards you points for who you are -- you're shooting for 67. That B.A. in Communications from Chico State will do the trick but so will two years as a tradesperson; Manitoba is always looking for good sheet-metal workers. If you only have a high school education but sold that software program you wrote in your bedroom one night to Oracle -- that is, you have a net worth of $200,000 -- start packing, your Canada's kind of person. There is, however, a little bit of a Gattaca thing going. You get more points for being under 49 years old.

The Salon guy obviously didn't take the test himself. I've got a BASc in chemical engineering, I'm 23, I have family here, I speak both official languages, and I still don't qualify to enter my own country as a skilled worker. Thankfully I'm a citizen.

I think the easiest way to do it would be to figure out which province needs what you are (which in some cases is really just "immigrants;" Atlantic Canada's population is declining, for example), and see if you can get a provinicial "invitation." Of course, there's always that other option. I love how that site says "aboot" instead of "about," too. So very quintissentially Canadian, "aboot." [Big Grin]

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

Yeah, but while many people signed the pledge, very few actually posted profiles. Um, not that I looked, or anything.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

I'm sure there's an attractive lesbian somewhere in BC who would love to marry you. [Razz]

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

Yes, but while I have dated women in the past, I am predominately straight.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

So, I've been looking into companies in NZ that use Lotus Notes, and have actually found quite a few. That's encouraging. I've sent email messages to a couple of them.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

Then I'll just send a link to all of my handsome male friends. [Wink]

Edit: Noemon, it might pay you to look at Australia as well. I discovered that recently.

[ November 05, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: twinky ]

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :

:giggle: So considerate of you.

Good luck, Noemon! At this rate, NZ might be where the mass hatrack exodous ends up.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Yeah, I'm doing that too. I think I'd rather live in New Zealand, given the choice, but Australia would be interesting too.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

What's funny is that you think I'm kidding. *clicks 'send'* [Big Grin]

Edit: I, too, would rather live in NZ, despite the standard of living hit. I view Australia as a stepping stone en route to NZ, since you can live in Australia with Kiwi citizenship, no questions asked.

[ November 05, 2004, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: twinky ]

Posted by Sean (Member # 689) on :

Twinky, how can you not qualify as a skilled worker? 22 points for education, 16 for English, at least 17 for co-op depending on if you've done other work, and 10 points for being 22 gives you 65 right there. Basic French would let you qualify on your own, or family would put you over the top.

Did I misread something? I'm curious because your score is almost exactly what mine would be after April.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

It could just be that I can't do mental arithmetic in the wee hours of the morning. I'll check it this afternoon.

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

You know I didn't realize it was 16 for english the first time I read it through.

Australia sounds wonderfully tempting. Twinky you got any links? I'm kinda curious.

AJ

As is, I think I'm around 53 points. If you add the arranged work in, in factors 5 and 6 assuming I did I could probably get the 68 points.

AJ

(Correction I forgot to give myself 10 points for age, I'm at 63 points minimum without arranged work in Canada, and I might be able to massage 4 more points out of the work experience depending on exactly what they count.)

[ November 05, 2004, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

16 for English? Well, there's my mistake then.

AJ, here's a good place to start. [Smile]

Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :

While I legally can only marry one person, I'm sure I could find other women interested in marrying an American.

Come on people, Poland's a good place to live!

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

Hmm I've got 125 points for Australia. 120 are required, and Steve would have the identical number. I know we are committed here for another couple of years, but I'd definitely consider it.

AJ

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

They've got the highest standard of living in the English-speaking world... unless you're an aboriginal. They don't treat the natives very well.

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

yeah, I know, but coming from the US I don't have a lot of room to point fingers do I?
The kiwis did a little better with the Maoris, but neither country has clean hands.

Actually, while I will enjoy my time in the Midwest, I just want to live somewhere *warm*. Florida, the Tampa area would be a possiblity, but I'm not into humidity. I'd love to go back to CA but can't stomach the cost of living so Australia would be a reasonable viable alternative to California. (This is also why unless extraextroardinary circumstances developed I wouldn't move to Canada... too cold of a climate even in the West.)

Australia also has a group of Cardigan Corgi lovers who would love the bloodlines I'd bring to them too.

AJ

[ November 05, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

That's true. And we're just as bad on that score here in Canada.

Also, I hear Australia is outright HOT.

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I hate to jump on the New Zealand band wagon but after I visit, if I like it I could zip over there for a few years to pick up another citizenship. I'm a citizenship junkie.

[Big Grin]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

*stern look at Kylie*

NOW look what you've started! [Razz]

Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :

I have either 110 or 115 points for Australia. The thing is, I am fluent in a language other than English, which is the additional 5 points. However, I do not have a university degree for studies conducted in this language, nor do I have any certificate proving my knowledge, which means I don't get the 5 points.

[Confused]

AJ, it tells me that the pass mark is 110. Why is it 120 for you?

[Confused]

So is there a similar test for the US?

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

Kama I'm not sure, it may be because of the profession you have. Or it could be a totally scummy scammy site, that always tells you, you have five points over waht is required because they want you to apply and take your money.

Twink what did it say for you?

AJ

[ November 05, 2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Try taking it again, and lying. I can't get the site to come up from work, but I'll try it when I get home.

Posted by Happy Camper (Member # 5076) on :

Well, I can't go to Canada yet, with 66 points, but by April I'll have 68 plus I'd likely have a job lined up, so that would push me over the top anyway. I've loved Canada each time I've been there, so...

I'll check out the Australia site when I can get on it. Doesn't seem to want to load at the moment.

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :

I love the fact that even in immigration, paper degrees matter more than life experience. [Frown]

I'm pretty much stuck in America, even if I wanted to leave.

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

When I lied

code:

Your Assessment Summary 
Criteria Your Answer Points* 
Nominated Occupation Primary Products Inspector 40 
Age 18 to 29 30 
English Language Ability Native English Speaker 20 
Occupational Experience Less than three years 0 
Spouse Skills Bonus Points Applicable 5 
Your Points Score:     95

When I didn't lie

code:

Your Skilled Assessment Result
  
  According to the responses in your online visa assessment, 
you satisfy the basic requirements for the Skilled Visa Category.

Required Pass Mark: 120 points  Your Points Score: 125 points* 

 Your Assessment Summary 
Criteria Your Answer Points* 
Nominated Occupation Engineer - Chemical Engineer 60 
Age 18 to 29 30 
English Language Ability Native English Speaker 20 
Occupational Experience More than three years 10 
Spouse Skills Bonus Points Applicable 5 
Willing to live in an Australian regional area YES   
Your Points Score:  125*

[ November 05, 2004, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :

The new map of the U.S.

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

quote:
*stern look at Kylie*

NOW look what you've started!

Aaaand, after that I'll go to Australia for a couple of years, pick up a fourth, then maybe South Africa if I'm feeling adventurous (fifth)...

How many citizenships can one person have. I'll got through so much paperwork...

Posted by tt&t (Member # 5600) on :

I started nothing. It was all YOUR fault. *stern look back*

Also, once you have Kiwi citizenship, you don't need Oz. However I don't know if we approve of citizenship whores. [Razz]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

*cough*

EDIT: And the first two weren't my choice! (especially the first!)

[ November 05, 2004, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :

Stormy, that was hysterical.

You know, if Canada let in all the Democrats, I bet Canada could quickly beat out the Jesusland as the dominate world power. If not, at least there would then be two superpowers again. I mean, when you think about it, the brainy nerds are the democrats, right? Isn't that why OSC always rails about liberal colleges polluting our children's minds.

Then again, that's probably why Canada doesn't want us there. [Wink]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

quote:
If not, at least there would then be two superpowers again

Yeah, only, one would have a lot of nuclear-missles and the other'd have a couple of broken second-hand submarines and helicopters. [Roll Eyes]

EDIT: And they'd be reluctant to use them.

[ November 05, 2004, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

*sterner look back at Kylie* It's SO not my fault. [Razz]

Teshi, citizenships, or residence permits? There's a world of difference. Citizenships, unless you have a parent who has one (like I do with dad), take a long time to get. Landed immigrant status is easier.

[ November 05, 2004, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

Well... I'm on the way to getting the second citizenship. I figure nine years in each country ought to do the trick.

EDIT: I'm an immigrant right now.

[ November 05, 2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

That's a long time to spend somewhere you don't plan to stay. I just want my Kiwi citizenship. Then I can live in Australia and New Zealand without worrying about immigration laws, and I can move back and forth between those two, Canada, and if need be the United States largely as I please.

I don't feel a huge urge to go and live in a bunch of different places, I just want to find somewhere I really like (which is to say, New Zealand).

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

Well I've never been to NZ, so I can't say if I want to live there! I am being lighthearted right now about scooping up citizenships.

[Wink]

Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :

quote:
Yeah, only, one would have a lot of nuclear-missles and the other'd have a couple of broken second-hand submarines and helicopters.

You know, I'm willing to bet that every liberal state that would be in the United States of Canada have nukes. Along with most of the industry in the country. Jesusland would have most of the farmland and old people. Unless of course you think that the farmland could somehow take all the nukes.

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

I'm living in Sri Lanka right now on a residential visa. I could apply for citizenship in 6 more years and be a citizenship whore, but I don't see the benefit of having citizenship here. Hubby doesn't care.

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :

I don't know where the nuclear weapons are- I was always under the impression they were in farmland but I don;t know.

I think I need to put a little [Wink]

after all my posts because i'm being taken more seriously that I intend to be!

Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :

I think "The United Nanny States of Canada" is a better name.

Posted by tt&t (Member # 5600) on :

*sternest look back*

quote:
..though, to be fair, the reason the Kiwis and Aussies won't mind taking me is that I'll have Kiwi citizenship.

Not true, sir. I calculated your points for NZ and you're about 50 over the required level. [Razz]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

*attempts to return sternest look*

...

*unable to suppress a snicker*

[Smile]

They like me... they really like me! *sniffle*

[Smile]

Also, I used the automated calculation system for Canada and it turns out I AM eligible, so it isn't quite as bad as I thought, but still... I'd like to think that I'm pretty skilled. I'm not sure I can honestly say that Canada is the best country in the world anymore. Our health care system is creeping closer and closer to two bona fide tiers for the rich and the not rich... the Conservative party is actually a force to be reckoned with for the first time in over a decade... *sigh* Good thing I'm already planning to leave. [Wink]

[ November 05, 2004, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

The conservative party recovered? What the heck?

I leave the country for a year, and the whole thing falls apart. [Wall Bash]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

They merged with the Canadian Alliance. Which is to say, the Alliance took them over and then stole their reputable brand name, but kept Stephen Harper on as a leader.

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :

Sure, I knew about the merger, but I didn't know that the conservative name itself recovered. What name is the party going by now?

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

The Conservative Party of Canada. They dropped the "Progressive."

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :

I'll trade you our conservatives for your conservatives.

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

No.

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :

http://www.slate.com/id/2109300/
[Smile]

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

[Big Grin]

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

hmm, looking at that Aussie emmigration site, it says that the actual application fee is around $1800 australian, plus the $300 they want for weaving you through the application process (which is probably worth it)

Turns out to $1300 US at current exchange rates. Steve's open to the idea. I think it would be 5-6 years down the road. We just bought a house here and it takes that long to be profitable in selling it. I definitely would like to be on the coast rather than mining in the outback. I don't think Steve would be able to handle Outback temperatures either, (though I'm pretty sure I could.) It's definitely worth considering, because I know I don't want to stay in Chicago forever.

AJ

Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :

By then I will be familiar enough with Australia to show you around. And you can come drinking with Ethics Gradient and I. [Big Grin]