I said I wouldn't get my hopes up again, but dang!
(I did do a search to see if it had been posted here, but it didn't turn up anything.)
Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :
i wanna see it so bad, but my comp isn't smart enough to download that in a reasonable amount of time. dang.
i can't wait!! and i don't even like star wars.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Too bad it'll just be another disaster.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
But between now and May 19th, I can dream. *sigh*
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Olivia!!!!! *overjoyed* Hi Princess. Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
You can call me Princess" as long as you don't mean anything political by it.
*hugs*
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy
Posted by dh (Member # 6929) on :
I'll have to hurry up and see Episode II before this comes out.
Actually, I'll have to see Episode I again too... It was so dull that I've forgotten the entire plot...
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
So, Dagonee . . . excited?
If I'm in your area it would be fun to go with you . . . nothing better than going with a fanbo^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H true belie^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H casual watcher.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
I don't want to see Mace Windu get gutted!
But it'll be so much fun to watch...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Phillistines!
Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
Wow!!!! I can't wait!
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Looks like it'll be fun. Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
I'd be excited if Episode 1 and 2 didn't suck.
Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
Third times a charm. Right?
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
Maybe. If not, I'm sure the backlash will entertain. Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
It'll be stupid obviously but, still, with all the stuff that they're going to have to cram into there to fill the hole between episodes 2 and 4, I have to admit, I'm kind of excited. Let's see, the republic will have to be overthrown, the senator dude will show his true colors, the war will end, the emperor will somehow take control of the clone army from the republic, the empire will be established, Luke and Leah will be born, Obi Wan will take them into hiding, and, of course, Anakin turns into Vader.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Does anyone else think they should just go ahead and give in and call it a straight animated movie instead of continuing to pretend its live action?
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Hm. That trailer didn't do it for me.
Though Yoda looks great.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Yeah, Yoda looks great... but the Wookies and Darth Vader look they came out of Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds or X-Wing or something(both computer games not known for having great graphics).
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*runs in circles* I can't wait!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know, I surely can't be the only person who thinks this trailer's completely faked up. It consisted almost entirely of clips from earlier films -- and, in some cases, what appear to be animations and character closeups from those films pasted onto new backgrounds. There are brief moments of what look like genuinely new footage, but the new footage in that trailer is footage I've seen elsewhere on the web before and is therefore fair game.
Are we absolutely certain that this is the official Lucasfilm trailer?
The reason I ask, all technical questions aside, is that it appears to genuinely suck eggs. It's not a particularly well-made trailer -- and the trailers and teaser trailers for the last two films were, in many ways, superior in craft to the films they advertised. If this is indeed a Lucasfilm trailer, I think it's a sign that Lucas has really lost more than a few steps.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
quote:Third times a charm. Right?
See, if ROTJ was the best of the original trilogy, then you might be onto something. But it wasn't. If anything, it was the corniest.
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
it appears to be authentic. starwars.com recently sent out a mailer to their email list about the epIII trailer available only for hyperspace members and this has the hyperspace logo on it.
not that it couldn't be faked, just that it appears to me (not the biggest starwars geek around) to be authentic.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Yeah, Tom I hope what you said is true... becuase it just looked way too BADLY computer animated to be true... unfortunately:
Just to a limited audience. Apparently some of that audience took the time to download it and repost it elsewhere.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Well, to me it looks less like a teaser trailer and more like just an announcement that the movie will exist.
Posted by Mr.Gumby (Member # 6303) on :
I hope my Mission President is cool and lets me go see the movie. I highly doubt it, but you never know.
p.s. In case you're wondering for some weird, wiggidy-whacked reason my Mission President will be President Ashton (the guy who owned WordPerfect)
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
Hey, you can't fault Lucas for putting in too much crap for the Uber-fans of Star Wars into the new trilogy. Plus, there was too much stuff written about the Star Wars Universe that wasn't Lucas. It was okayed by him, but it wasn't him, so most of the story kinda got lost in the hype. But come on, even if it suck, you know you're gonna see it, so no one is really feeling like its important to make an awesome movie here (And its still in Post-Production, so it may look better when it comes out.)
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Woah, defensivemuch? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Plus, there was too much stuff written about the Star Wars Universe that wasn't Lucas."
Ironically, some of the better and more sensible elements of the Star Wars Universe come from West End's RPG materials and the Timothy Zahn novels which used those same materials as technical references. (To be fair, most of the other SWU books blow chunks, too.) If anything, hewing closer to the better and more coherent parts of the SWU would have improved Lucas' storyline enormously, IMO.
You can't blame Jar Jar, pod races, and skin unlike sand on the fans, I'm afraid.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Just go see The Incredibles this weekend. I'm spoiler-free (though I can make "educated" guesses as to the plot), so I won't be downloading anything. I'm not sure what exactly this will accomplish, other than giving me a false sense of superiority. Gotta get my kicks somewhere, I suppose.
Incidentally, I wanted to see The Incredibles before it was announced that the ROTS trailer was playing with it.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo i can't wait!!!! And personally I liked the tie-ins to IV in the teaser.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Still looks incredibly computer animated.
To be honest, I really don't want to see this movie because I know the ending is going to be sad. I don't really care about Anakin, but I can't stand to see Amidala completely betrayed. *pouts*
Also, why the heck is Chewbacca there? I mean, we've already agreed to overlook the fact that C3PO and R2D2 being in the prequels completely invalidates the back story they're given in the original trilogy. Chewbacca, though? How much coincidence does he expect us to take. I really don't think a few cute scenes are enough to make up for how impossible it will be for anyone to write SW spinoffs after this.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
And what possible reason is there for Anakin's eyes to change color?
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
quote: Also, why the heck is Chewbacca there? I mean, we've already agreed to overlook the fact that C3PO and R2D2 being in the prequels completely invalidates the back story they're given in the original trilogy. Chewbacca, though? How much coincidence does he expect us to take. I really don't think a few cute scenes are enough to make up for how impossible it will be for anyone to write SW spinoffs after this.
I'd like to recommend watching Episode 4 again, while paying close attention to the scenes in Mos Eisley- who was it that Obi-Wan talked to first immediately upon arriving in the bar? Also, I'd like to recommend you getting the Star Wars radio shows... from somewhere, if you can.
And about the eyes... uh... The Force?
[ November 05, 2004, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Anti-Chris ]
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote: I'd like to recommend watching Episode 4 again, while paying close attention to the scenes in Mos Eisley. Also, I'd like to recommend you getting the Star Wars radio shows... from somewhere, if you can.
I've done all of this, I was a rabid Star Wars fan for about 3 years. I've also read all of the books that were published before 1999. What am I missing?
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Chewbacca has a back story. It doesn't involve being a member of a horde of warcrying Wookies. At all.
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
What your missing is:
1) When he gets to Mos Eisley, he immediately spies Chewbacca, and begins talking with him, and works out the deal pretty easily.
2) In the radio shows, if I recall correctly (been about 2 years) it talks about Chewbacca and Obi-Wan seeming to have a previous relation. It doesn't bluntly state that they have, only that it seemed that way.
Edit:
SPOILERS:
From what I've heard, most of Chewie's involvement in Episode III is delivering the twins.
[ November 05, 2004, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Anti-Chris ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Also, keep in mind that almost all the novels aren't canon, so any backstory for chewbacca mentioned in them might as well be so much spearmint gum.
[ November 05, 2004, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I really don't get that. All novels have to be approved by George Lucas. How can they not be canon? "Oh, well, I just decided the prequels can have more crappy storylines if I ignore these books, so they aren't canon anymore. That was easy."
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
While I disagree with Chewbacca's involvement in the prequels, in my opinion, it does not invalidate the originals, like the droids do so far (still speculating on that one).
[ November 05, 2004, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Anti-Chris ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
No, they haven't been canon for far longer than the prequels have been under serious consideration.
The novels aren't (for the most part) canon because while Lucas wanted to allow his fans more material and the chance to explore the worlds of star wars/make more money, he didn't want to give up creative control. By keeping novels outside canon he can approve novels with great leeway, even ones that contradict each other, without "corrupting" the star wars universe or creating paradox. They still have to be approved by him, of course, so that his rights are protected and people don't do things like right star wars slash and get it published.
Canon isn't the same as being approved by the rights holder, canon is part of the "real" star wars universe.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
So what is canon?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Don't remember the particular novels, but I'm pretty sure its less than 10 total.
If you meant, what decides canon, its what lucas says is part of the "real" universe.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I meant what are they. I think the idea's silly.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Why?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Tom, I'm afraid I share your cynicism. *sigh* But I will probably end up seeing it anyway.
This was much more of a teaser than a trailer, and not very well done. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
a. It leaves fans no way (or makes it very difficult) to tell what's canon. b. it results in a contradictory universe, when most fans reading Star Wars novels are doing it to escape into the universe, this makes that impossible. c. Either there are a lot more than ten canon novels or the official website has character biographies of characters that don't exist in the universe. d. it is completely a ploy to make money off of other people's reverence for your creation, which I personally find morally reprehensible.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
The films are the final authority when it comes to Canon. Period. Lucas can't be bound by Kevin J Anderson's ideas of the Sith Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I can't be the only one who didn't think Episodes I and II were that bad. Aside from a few parts.
I mean, the original three had their moments as well.
Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
I think they weren't bad, but they could have been much better. And you are right about the originals having there moments.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
OH my GOD! Did you see that battle above the capital planet??? DAMN!!
The fall of the Republic!
hmmm... seems eerily familiar to current events... Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
This trailer is official, in case there is any doubt. It's on the Incredibles.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Hmm. . . this suprises me. I've been able to get excited about the SW movies ONLY because they've had good trailers. This wasn't even competent.
Alas.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Yeah, this trailer looks awful, which saddens me. I was at one time a huge star wars fan. I loved the movies, I read all the books. But after the first two prequels...no. It just isn't there anymore.
I am sooo incredibly glad that when they released the originals as a set for the last time before "reworking them to fit lucas's original vision" I had enough money to buy them. I was only in like the 5th grade or something. I had to save all my paper money for a long time to get those.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I think that the trailer was pretty well done. Most of the people who will rush out to see this one are huge fans, and they already have an idea what happens, and why. The trailer teased a lot of thisng,showing that Lucas isn't doing a Peter Jackson....editing out the parts that fans want to see the most (a la Scouring of the Shire), and trys to show how this trilogy will be directly connected to the first one (ep 4,5&6).
I am sure that the movie will look good, as even the latest two looked great...tha was part of the problem with them. Lucas is spending too much time on how they look and not enough time on telling good stories.
I will go see it, but I hope it is better than the first one. I liked the second one AOTC, better than the first, so perhaps there isstill hope.
Hell, if the Red Sox can win the WS this year, anything can happen....even a passible SW movie ...
Kwea
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"I think that the trailer was pretty well done."
Seriously? I mean, leaving aside the mostly unimpressive visuals, the backing audio and video editing were themselves rather poor. I mean, really, they feel amateurish. For God's sake, jump cuts? A slow zoom on glowing red eyes? A bunch of heavy but not particularly resonant breathing?
*shudder*
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
I read somewhere authoritative that the writers of the EU are like kids building sand castles in Lucas' driveway. They write with the knowledge that Lucas, at any point, can contradict their stories.
Apart from the Zahn books (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command, Spector of the Past, Vision of the Future), the extended universe books pretty much sucked. I'm know there were a few good ones after that(Truce at Bakura, I Jedi), but for the most part, they were absolutely terrible.
What killed the Star Wars books (especially after the first Zahn trilogy that was so like the originals that you could HEAR the John Williams soundtrack) was you friend and mine, that turd in the punchbowl, Kevin J Anderson who destroys every franchise he touches, as he is now doing with the Dune universe. When he took the promising ending of "The Last Command", and after Luke had withstood two attempts to turn him to the dark (one by the Emperor himself in ROTJ), and instead legitimized the Dark Horse 2nd Emperor storyline (Luke joins with a "reborn" emperor since he sees he can't defeat him and becomes the new Darth Vader and Leia is the one who pulls him back the good side, this time) it was all downhill from there.
He took the brilliant handoff by Zahn and some good initial premises (wouldn't the children of Jedi show promising Jedi powers, Luke would want to start a new Jedi Academy) and pissed all over them. He butchered the characters- Han and Lando keep arguing over who the Falcon belongs to, so they keep betting it and it passes back and forth between them- and the universe.
After reading the first 3 of his new Dune series (with Brian Herbert) I've come to this conclusion. It's like he decides to write in a similar universe with characters who happen to have the same name and backstory as the story we love, but are not the same people. He then contradicts their back story and contradicts that very universe's continuity.
And after he came along, others came along that did similar things (The Crystal Star, The Courtship of Princess Leia, Shadow of Empire, etc). I do believe that if Lucasfilm had rejected KJA's stories and made sure that the first stories in the EU were good, the others would have HAD to be better.
The New Jedi Order is OK, but there are still moments where they really disconnect from the originals. And I don't bother reading the prequel novels, not after the Green Planet and the Darth Maul novel (forget the name) showed how lame they could be.
I am looking forward to the new movie, though.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
The trailer was not very good, but that's almost entirely meaningless when you consider that its a teaser trailer.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
I think it was a dcent attempt to pull the previous two movies together with the original Star Wars. As a teaser, I think it was effective.
But then, my perspective was a bit askew, since I was wondering if it'll have any scenes of Obi-Wan either tied up or wet, which were high points of EpII for me.
About the novels... They're just officially approved fan fiction, nothing more. Though I bet most of them (The Zahns in particular) were better-written than most fanfic, Lucas gives them no more weight than that. I doubt he's even read 'em, aside from plot synopses.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote: Does anyone else think they should just go ahead and give in and call it a straight animated movie instead of continuing to pretend its live action?
[ November 05, 2004, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: lem ]
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote: Lucas can't be bound by Kevin J Anderson's ideas of the Sith
Why not? He sanctioned them, he's making money off of them. Why shouldn't he be bound by them?
I've got that this is the way it is. I just think it's very wrong.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I'd like to go on record saying that I liked the trailer. Watching it made me excited for the third movie, and since i'm pretty sure that's what a teaser's intended purpose is, I'd say it did its job. Atleast for me.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
He sanctioned them as being acceptable uses of star wars characters and settings, not as being "part of the star wars universe". Those are two different things.
There's more than one sort of endorsement, your idea that someone endorsing something in any way implies their full support for it seems bizarre.
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
i am grateful to never have read any star wars books.
i still like the original trilogy and don't have any problems with the new trilogy so far. from the p.o.v. of someone who is only familiar with the movie universe, i haven't seen a contradiction or a plot issue. not with the wookies, nor with the bots being involved from the beginning.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
The Zahn books really are good. They are what revived Star Wars. You might recall that in the late 80's early 90's there wasn't much about SW out. Then those books came out and satisfied the yearning that many fans had. More than that, the brought new life to the series. In EVERY POSSIBLE WAY, the Zahn books fit and expanded the SW universe. Indeed, in some ways, they made the SW universe more mature and realistic than the admittedly childish and simplistic (though fun) that GL created.
I heartily recommend them IF you love the original trilogy. They truly fit and (I think) are probably the only books that GL may have actually read and incorporated into his vision of the universe (along with, as Tom said, the RPG rules for the universE). In fact, there was a poll at SW.com that asked which EU character they'd like to see in the prequel and the overwhelming choice was Mara Jade, Zahn's creation. One can hope that if GL puts her in (as a child, of course) or at least somehow refers to the process that created her (an Emperor's Hand), than that will give Zahn's books the Canonical stamp of approval, unlike that idiot Anderson.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
I agree with IanO. Zahn is a great author in his own right, I very much enjoyed his Conqueror's trilogy. Although it basically ruined an idea I had for a story.
The thing that I really hated KJA for was killing the spirit of the characters that Zahn created. Like Senator Bel Iblis. Still makes me mad sitting here.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
I'm so excited about this movie. Nothing can change that.
Olivia
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
tell me about it. Mara and Lando?
The nice thing about the final Thrawn Cycle (the last two) was that Zahn took all the crap that the other writers and written that had ruined the SW EU and somehow, even then, legitemized it, in a way. I'll still never consider KJA's Jedi Academy trilogy anything other than emergency toilet paper. But he still brought some sense of meaning and -what's the right term?- some sense of actually being SW to the other books.
GL should have involved him in writing the prequels. Now, unlike most, I actually really liked AOTC. PM was OK but was marred by GL trying to cater to little kids and 'cuteness'. AOTC was much better, I thought. And I've argued this a 1000 times here. But if Zahn had been involved in the prequels, I don't know that there would have been any complaints.
Ian
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I'll see it. Not sure if I want to, but I need to finish the story. Plus, big beardy Obi Wan is enough for me.
I won't be surprised if they throw Han in there too. ::gags::
Ni!
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
My prediction is that since the trailers for the first two movies were great, and the first two movies not so much, that the fact that this trailer is sucky can only mean that Ep III will blow all previous movies away!
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
71
jedi for life
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
I'll see it because I'm curious, but if Lucas wrote the screenplay, I'm expecting it to suck. (In fact, I'll be trying to keep my expectations REALLY low before I see it, so that when I do see it, I can be saying, "Hey, this doesn't suck as much as I thought it would!")
[ November 08, 2004, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: plaid ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I thought it did a good job of showing how they will tie it into the first three movies, and I also thought it was pretty damn captivating in that it caught my attention and held it, something a lot of trailers don't do.
Also, what did you ecpect DV to do? He breathed like that for the first 3 movies, didn't he?
I am looking forward to this movie, although I am sure it won't be as good as the first three. I liked AOTC better than PM too....
Kwea
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I am so spoiler-free, it's not even funny. I was pissed when I stumbled across the title. I stop my friends from talking and speculating about the film around me. I don't look at the websites I used to frequent. (This is, however, the time to mention that I pretty much know what's going to happen in the movie, but who doesn't?) Seeing the trailer in front of The Incredibles was the first I saw of the movie.
And I nearly wet my pants. (Well, okay, I nearly did something else to my pants, but this is pretty much a family show.) For someone as deprived as I, the trailer was awesome. And I really liked the use of the old-school Obi-Wan speech.
It was actually kind of funny - we were watching all the kiddy trailers before The Incredibles and I forgot the trailer was coming. So when the Lucasfilm logo popped up onscreen, I pretty much shrieked. I didn't care that I had just made a fool out of myself, because I was writhing in ecstasy.
And I think it's going to be much harder to stay spoiler-free, but I'll do my best.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Also, what did you ecpect DV to do? He breathed like that for the first 3 movies, didn't he?"
It's not that I mind the breath. It's that they made the breath a major thematic audio element, and didn't even make the effort to make it imposing.
Overall, the trailer was poorly cut and mastered -- which is the last complaint I'd ever think to be making of anything from Lucasfilm.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
There were places in the trailer where the CGI was painfully obvious, like the pan across the clone troopers, but overall I agree with Strider--it got me excited about the upcoming movie, almost despite myself.
quote:And what possible reason is there for Anakin's eyes to change color?
It's those durn midicholorians!
[ November 08, 2004, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I will say I really liked the part where Darth Vader's chair comes up and we see him in his evil incarnation for the first time.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how Amidala handles all of the nasty stuff that's coming at her this movie. I think Natalie Portman is a really good actress and I hope George Lucas lets that show in this movie.
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
Are people making comments on the trailer based on the crappy downloadable version or the one seen in theaters? This thread started before it was out on the big screens and I was curious because it was a lot better sounding at the big house. My only complaint with the audio was, oddly enough, the line reading from Jones. He kind of had that faux continental accent in the original trilogy that was lacking here. His "master" had a kind of flat affect vs. the cheesier but, I think closer to original, "mahster." I also think it is very likely that the dialogue with DV and the Emporer aren't in the movie, but that is a guess.
This is a teaser, of course. The movie isn't nearly done, yet, and we aren't due for a real trailer for a few months yet. I thought the CG of the new stuff was good (using the Clone trooper pan from a previous movie doesn't count...that is like saying the second Tatooine sun by Luke's place looked aweful...not in this movie!). What looked like the firefighter ship was neat putting out that blazing capital ship, the brief scenes of space battle looked great (with broadside vs. broadside action...excellent!).
Still, like folks have said, it is down to the writing and directing and so far GL has a pretty poor track record of writing and directing post 1970's. I have already heard some spoilers that, if included in the final cut, are worrisome holdovers for a teeny bopper crowd that really ought not to be a part of this audience. Crossing fingers that GL gets a clue this one, last time (unless he gets the itch to shoot 7-9...unlikely, though).
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
Was it James Earl Jones, or a digitized Hayden? the delivery on "Master" sounded VERY similar to the way Hayden called Obi-Wan Master in AotC.
Posted by Mr.Gumby (Member # 6303) on :
It think it is James Earl Jones. I'm thinking that he might have payed close attention to the way Hayden speaks.
Posted by Mr.Gumby (Member # 6303) on :
quote: James Earl Jones talks about his role being about 5 minutes in length, "right after Anakin goes bionic and falls into a volcano." - JEJ
[ November 08, 2004, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Mr.Gumby ]
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I did not see that. I did not see that.
Well, okay, I saw that. But I already knew it was going to happen! It doesn't count!
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Breaking my silence for star wars commentary-
Zahn is perhaps the best sci-fi (as seperate from fantasy) author currently writing. His characters are more fully developed then anyone's, other then OSC's, and has seemed to maintain that edge of writing about things he disagrees with, in a positive manner, that OSC lost in recent years. His plots are usually dynamic, and interesting, often extremely thought provoking. Angelmass was an amazing story, as was Manta's Gift. His star wars books weren't nearly as good as some of the other stuff he's written... and there is no doubt in my mind that if Lucas makes 7,8,9 that Zahn's sequels would make the best possible movies for those episodes.
I thought the teaser was fine, at least the version I saw on my computer. Nothing to write home about, but it didn't make me gag either. I'm looking forward to the movie... even if Lucas has butchered the prequels, they are entertaining fluff, and I KNOW I will be visually impressed.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Zhan's that good huh? I've never read any of his stuff. Which of his books would you recommend that a person start with?
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
I have a difficult time finding his stuff in the smaller bookstores, so I'd say whatever you could find. The Star Wars books he wrote should be readily available, though.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
I really liked his Conquerers Trilogy. Some great concepts in there.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I'll second (or third or fourth) that Zahn's SW books are significantly better than the rest. The ultimate threat in the Thrawn trilogy was well put together and well-constructed out of SW mythos.
However, there's a very serious inconsistency with both the timeline and alignment of forces in the Clone Wars as recounted by Zahn and as presented in the prequels. This might be a fatal defect in turning those books into movies within the canon.
And, as much as many hate it, I love the way the clone aspect was developed in the prequels.
Dagonee
[ November 09, 2004, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"And, as much as many hate it, I love the way the clone aspect was developed in the prequels."
Philistine! *shudder* One of the things I hate most about the prequels is that Zahn's Clone Wars actually made some sense, whereas the prequel clones are downright silly.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Yeah, but Zahn's clone wars time line with the Noghri was just wrong from the beginning.
Zahn's books were 10 years after RotJ. Jedi was 5 years after NH, and Luke was, what, 18? So it's 28 years after his birth.
Assuming Luke was conceived before Anakin became Vader, there's no way Vader was visiting the Noghri during the clone wars 40-50 years before.
This was apparant to me as soon as I read the book, long before the sequels came out.
Plus, the idea that the clones attacked because they were crazy has been so overdone. It was the weakest part of the book, in my opinion.
Dagonee
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Assuming Luke was conceived before Anakin became Vader, there's no way Vader was visiting the Noghri during the clone wars 40-50 years before."
Yeah, I think Zahn deliberately just ignored the whole time compression aspect of Lucas' mythology. In several cases he almost goes out of his way to establish a campaign of oppression that lasted around thirty years, culminating in the dissolution of the Senate that we see in ANH; my personal opinion is that Zahn just didn't feel that you could wipe out thousands of Jedi and subjugate most of a galaxy in fifteen or twenty years, so he ignored that bit of inconvenient canon. West End Games' RPG did pretty much the same thing -- which would explain why Zahn took those liberties, since I'm told that he relied on WEG's material fairly heavily for technical/social background.
To be honest, though, I'm kind of intrigued by what happens if you take Zahn's books as canon, and ignore the prequels. You're left with the conclusion that Darth Vader was identifiably Darth Vader, at least to the Noghri, for decades before the Jedi were finally exterminated and the Empire declared. It makes Anakin a father in his late 30s, and makes you wonder whether he was able to conceal that side of his personality from his wife and his associates for so long -- or whether he bullied his wife into sticking around until fear for their children's future forced her to act. It also makes you wonder whether he called himself Darth Vader before his fight with Obi-Wan and the volcano bath -- and, if so, whether the Noghri were shocked when he showed up wearing breathing apparatus later.
[ November 09, 2004, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
Dammit, now I have to read those books again.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Saw it when we took the fam to see The Incredibles, and I must say it was much better on the big screen. Gave me chills. Ron put his hand on my knee and said something about how much better that was than the downloadble one.
I bet Mr. Z's books were great (I think I read one of them a long time ago) but Star Wars novels have no more bearing on the movies than fanfiction, Silly Rabbits! Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
Someone tell me who/what that robot is!
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
*cries*
With Lucas at the helm, it'll probably have horribly grating speech.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I've discovered that I can't talk about SW without being a troll.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Well that robot's pretty hot and I see lots of Yoda, so maybe it won't be quite as bad as I'm thinking Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Hot in what sense?
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
quote:Someone tell me who/what that robot is!
It's an uber robot seen in the Clone Wars microseries on Cartoon Network. You can watch the whole series at CartoonNetwork.com. It's animated by the studio that does Samurai Jack, I think, and it's pretty good, despite having 3-minute episodes.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Hot as in cool, hehe. I confuse a lot of people with that word, sorry
And WOAH.
It's really called Revenge of the Sith?!
That's dumb.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Heh, OK, gotcha. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That stupid yoda fight scene was one of the most apalling parts of the 2nd movie.
Visually impressive, but it made no sense.
Like everything that Lucas does now.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
And for a lot of us at the time, it was the only thing the movie had going for it.
Once the sensation of seeing Yoda fight like a mosquito on crack wore off, we wised up.
Edit: to include an important part of the sentance so it made sense.
[ January 03, 2005, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
It was cool until I started thinking about it.
I guess that's my problem.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Bev, I had to read your post three times before I realized that you hadn't said "mosquito on a crack-whore".
Seriously.
Maybe I should go to bed now.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
*gasp*
That webpage has made my day O_O
*bookmarks*
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
I've come to the realization that Episode II is a really great movie.
*dodges pitchforks* Just hear me out for a second...
A guy in my ward has video editing software, and his pet project over the past few months was getting all the crap out of Episode II.
--Like almost everything said by Jar Jar Binks, the viceroy Newt, and C3PO. --And all of Anakin's creepy "Sand is rough/I'd rather dream of Padme/I want to rape you and eat your children in a creepy manner" dialogue. --And Padme's "stay away from me/come closer/you're making me uncomfortable/let me comfort you after killing an entire villiage/I truly deeply love you" dialogue. --C3PO's bad jokes during the fight scene.
What you are left with is a 30-minute shorter version of a movie that is a hecka lot better than the original.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Having just read Survivor's Quest by Zahn, I have come to the conclusion that Zahn is the new keeper of the Star Wars spirit, even more so than GL. Writing before the Yuzhon Vong wars but after the Thrawn Cycle, he expands that SW universe again and legitimizes elements others have added. This time, he takes elements ALSO from the prequels and once again, with a little thought and maturity, fleshes them out and makes them more palatable.
Now keep in mind, I liked AotC, though there were things I didn't like. GL's timeline is admittedly too short for the rise of the Emperor and extermination of the Jedi and Zahn's made more sense, as did his reasons for why the Clone Wars were so bad (one could hope that GL will include some that in Ep3, but I'm not holding my breath). And while GL is clearly trying to parallel the path Hitler took from Chancellor to Dictator, he still shows that his universe is essentially a simple Saturday matinee (and that's not a bad thing, we must not forget. THAT'S what he was trying to make from the outset and he has always been up front about that- a simple myth that called to mind those sometimes campy, sometimes goofy that nevertheless had an impact on his generation. Our problem is that, with profoundly deep and well done SF/Fantasy movies-- ironically, often inspired by what SW itself did, as attested to by the directors in the SW trilogy DVD documentaries-- our tolerance for the the "campy-ness" has lessened. We've seen what good SF/Fantasy movies look like and they don't have to appeal to slapstick humor. That and he "kid-i-fied" his movies even more. The original trilogy wasn't really cute and cuddly and slapstick, even with the Ewoks. While pushing the envelope, they didn't quite cross the line, at least for me. The humor was in the adult banter (Han and just about everybody), something I remember even as 6 year old kid watching Empire when it first came out. Whereas Jar-Jar and the Gungans and Threepio's jokes in AotC pissed all over that line.)
But Zahn (and West End Games with the background material) made the SW universe more realistic. Zahn kept the fun and swashbuckling adventure of the original but still made it believable.
And he did it again with Survivor's Quest. If Lucas wasn't so arrogant, he could do worse than get Zahn as a script consultant, at least, on the new movie. Fat chance of that, I know. But I wish.
All hail Timothy Zahn, the new keeper of the Star Wars spirit.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Heck, Zahn may be the best active sci-fi author.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Man, that's high praise Paul. Who do you consider the other contenders to be? If you were to recommend a single Zhan book to serve as an introduction to his work, what would it be? I've not read his stuff.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
I'm not sure who else I'd place in zahn's category. OSC, obviously. Neil Gaiman maybe? Mostly fantasy, though. I haven't found very many good sci-fi authors in the past few years, to be honest. Halperin was extremely good, but only wrote two books, and isn't working on a third, so he's not active.
Angelmass, Manta's Gift, and Icarus Hunt are good places to start with Zahn. Angelmass and Manta's Gift are more serious then Icarus Hunt, but Icarus Hunt is the best representation of his style and method of writing.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm going to the library tonight--I'll see if they have any of those titles in.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Hope you find one and enjoy it Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:It's an uber robot seen in the Clone Wars microseries on Cartoon Network. You can watch the whole series at CartoonNetwork.com. It's animated by the studio that does Samurai Jack, I think, and it's pretty good, despite having 3-minute episodes.
For the life of me, I cannot find any episodes of Clone Wars on that website.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I'm pretty sure they've since removed the series from the CN website. The only ways you can get them now are to join StarWars.com's Hyperspace thing (it costs money) or to buy the DVD when it comes out in March.
CN might show the whole series in a marathon, though, when the third season premiers. They showed the entire first season when the second season premiered so...
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So what is canon?
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Olivia
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All hail Timothy Zahn, the new keeper of the Star Wars spirit.