This, of course, is more geared towards the religious folk and especially those who hold views that these are the "last days" that we are living in before the end of God's Great Human Experiment/Trial.
But anyone who wishes is more than welcome to post on topic about it.
Basically, what are some signs TO YOU that the end is comming close. This can be events, attitudes, analogies, etc.
For me, I had an interesting one (out of the very many) that I haven't seen widely discussed and of course it is colored by my own religious denominational leanings:
In Israel, God had gathered the Jews to a choice land due to their past faithfulness and contingent upon their continuing faithfulness and righteousness. (I personally believe he gathered other righteous believers to other choice lands and supported them as well)
There they built a Temple as a place for God to dwell on Earth, etc.
At the entrance to the temple stood TWO pillars named Jachin and Boaz.
When Israel was disobedient and the Lord allowed it to be destroyed, the temple also was destroyed. The pillars which were directly outside the front of it were probably the very first things to be destroyed and pulled/knocked down.
I believe that the United States is a second "promised land". I believe it was set up, protected and advanced due to the righteousness of it's people.
I believe much of what God does, tends to be "circular". I believe that much of what transpired before the "destruction" of Israel in the Old Testament, will happen again and is happening again.
I have a "theory" that on Sept. 11th the Pillars of the Promised Land of America were thrown down. I think it was somewhat of a symbol perhaps that the Pillars at the entrance to our land were cast down.
I may be completely wrong, but that is my little "theory".
[ November 04, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: CStroman ]
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Or, some really insane and hateful people took it upon themselves to kill a bunch of people indiscriminately because they believe in a twisted version of an ancient religion.
CS, I just have to say it's statements like that which made me realize I could not align myself with the Southern Baptist church. Bizarro theories about the "end times."
Spooky campfire stories is all it is. It just comes out of the mouths of people who ought to know better and gets believed by people who are a little bit too gullible and certainly fixated on seeing God or the devil in everything that happens in the world.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
Makes good poetry though The symbolism that is.
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
I think Bob's another sign.... Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
I can see the headline now "End of Delayed by 8 Years!" The WTC were a target of Bin Laden for quite some time for what they represent to the West. He tried once in 1993 but was unsuccessful. Does this mean that the end of days had been averted to give us one last good, peaceful, prosperous and decadent decade before the end of time?
What I am really curious about is why people are so keen on the End of Days happening? There probably hasn't been a period of time in history that wasn't thought to be the end of all time dating back to the dawn of the written word. I can understand the need for religion. As the only species on earth that clearly forsees its own death, the comfort of a "There is more after the lights go out" belief makes sense.
But the thought that all is doomed long before one's life is over seems a bit odd and counterintuitive to the survival benefits of having a strong spiritual belief.
My Bible lore gets weaker the longer it goes since I last read it or about it, but I thought it was fairly well understood that Revelations, the clearest source of Apocolyptic hysteria, wasn't some prediction of a distant future ending of the world but well-conceived code to spread the word of god under the noses of the Romans during the time it was written.
I guess it is beyond me. For my money, though, the End of Days started for me this year when I realized there would be no new Lord of the Rings movie to end the year with.
fil
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Now that would be an excellent sign of the Apocalypse. Bob_Scoptaz, Harbinger of the End Times. How'd ya like to add that to your resume, Bob? It would kinda make me feel like I was living in a Terry Prachett book...
Edit: ooooh, even better, would that make dkw some sort of Bride of Satan type dealie? Not quite as bad, naturally, since Chad wasn't going so far as to call Bob the anti-christ. But still! I could be the sister-in-law of a minor-horror-movie character!
[ November 04, 2004, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
I've always wondered why people would travel to hell in a handbasket.
Wouldn't a great big, black coach drawn by 8 balck horses and driven by a headless coachman be more fitting?
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
And you people call yourselves adults, and have the infernal gall to vote on the government of the world's most powerful nation? Signs of the end times, indeed.
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
See, Dag, that would be cool. And going to hell in a cool thing is just counter to the whole "punishment" angle. What would be more humiliating than traveling such a long distance to such a horrible place in a little ol' handbasket. Maybe wearing a bonnet or something.
fil
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I was about to apologize for being frivolous for all those people who take such things seriously. Then I saw Dagonee's post. Dag.
If he can do it, then I can too. Carry on.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Yes, I come riding in on a black Yamaha!
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Yamaha? Definitely a spawn of satan.
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
But it would have to be a teeny tiny black Yamaha, like one a Shriner would ride. Big and loud would be too cool.
In fact, going to hell escorted by Shriners on little black motorcycles would be pretty embarassing...wait a minute, that would be cool!
In fact, I am off to change my will now. I think THAT is how I want to make my way to my final resting place! Wheee!!
fil
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
The End of Days...when the Valar themselves shall grow weary and the watch apon the Walls of Night shall fail... and Morgoth shall break through the Doors of Night and lay seige to Valmar, city of the gods on the knees of Taniquetil, and the fields of Valinor shall be set alight with flame... and the Eldar shall cry out with grief and horror...
By this shall you know the last days have come...
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
I plan on having a dixieland band and a full wake (with open bar!). Thinking about male strippers, too, but am undecided if that is too creepy.
*grin*
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
I was at a funeral where there was a clown performing so I can't see that being any more or less creepy than having strippers. Go for it!
fil
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
jexx, may I be invited to your funeral? Let's have it before you die, so you can come, too! Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
ROFL, ElJay, it's a date.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Cool. You get the booze, I'll call the strippers. Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
I'm here. Oh wait. Wrong wake.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Hey, I think Dan_Raven may have been at that funeral, too! You should ask him. Posted by Defenestraitor (Member # 6907) on :
fil, I dig that website! Thanks.
quote: ca. 4,500,000,000 AD The sun will swell into a red giant star, swallowing Mercury, Venus, Earth, and perhaps Mars. This will be the true end of the world!
Personally I believe the Mayans had it right, the 5th age of Earth will end in fire on December 23, 2012. If I'm a sinner for the next 8 years but I repent on December 22, will God let me into Heaven? Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
Only if you take 42 million years of hell first (JK)
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
December 22 is a bad day to repent - that's my birthday, and you want to have fun at the party.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*wonders where the term Hell in a handbasket came from in the first place*
Sounds like stuff my relatives would talk about. Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
See, Dags, we're all gonna repent at the end of your party. Go out with a bang, so to speak.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Something to do with what Little Red Riding Hood was bringing to her Grandma's, I think. The original story was a little grimmer than today's "purified" version.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Oh, it was. Trust me, it was. I like that version better though. No woodcutter in that version.
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
quote:(Chad: Just out of curiousity, what ARE your religious denominational leanings? I'd rather not guess, because I don't want to offend you by being horribly wrong)
Same as mine, unfortunately, though I don't agree with his interpretation of said faith.
[ November 05, 2004, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm always fascinated by people who are cool with the end of the world. It's a completely foreign philosophy to me.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
I try not to let the End of the world affect me or my life. The End Time Prophecies are there, but...
There's no timetable, no one is given a memo saying, "This is God, be ready to go on May 15, 2007."
I think that it is better to realize that we all face an end time, that our life is finite, no matter what. That's the End Time to keep an eye on, to try to better yourself for.
Just being good because the End of the World is coming isn't the same thing as being Good because that's how you should be.
Any child can be on their best behavior a month before Christmas so as to ward off coal in the stocking.
Posted by Defenestraitor (Member # 6907) on :
quote: See, Dags, we're all gonna repent at the end of your party.
I can't. I always wait till the morning after to repent. But on the morning of December 23, 2012, there won't be much time to repent. Can anyone here teach me speed-repenting?
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
quote:(Chad: Just out of curiousity, what ARE your religious denominational leanings? I'd rather not guess, because I don't want to offend you by being horribly wrong)
Judging by the millenialist bent to his interpretation, I'd say Mormon. It's not a common interpretation among those I know personally in daily life, but it is basically a premise Mormons, Southern Baptists, and a few other evenangelical/born again Christian groups tend to have lingering aspects of.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
quote:Thinking about male strippers, too, but am undecided if that is too creepy.
I don't think male strippers at your wake would be creepy, jexx. It might be a little weird for people if I had them at my wake, though.
Posted by SeeDKing (Member # 6998) on :
Hey CStroman,
I have heard many different ideas about this over time, however I don't think it really matters.
Whether it is the end of times or not, there is absolutely nothing you or I or anyone would be able to do about it.
So instead of trying to figure out what the Bible is alluding too (especially since it tells you that you really aren't going to figure it out), I would worry more about today.
Live in the moment, love everybody, forgive when you are able, and try to live as best you can. That way you don't have to worry about it, and you can have a good time while you are at it Posted by SeeDKing (Member # 6998) on :
quote: I'm always fascinated by people who are cool with the end of the world. It's a completely foreign philosophy to me.
Well, if you are ok with the fact that you are going to die someday, then I don't see why the end of the world should really be all that distressing .
Seriously, I mean I could worry about it... but is it going to change anything? Probably not. But thats me, I really don't worry about things I can't control, and it makes life WAY less stressful.
Why worry about all that stuff when I have other things in my life I can control like my marriage, my job, my understanding of the people I deal with on a day to day basis, and other things that really make life worth living.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Well, if you are ok with the fact that you are going to die someday, then I don't see why the end of the world should really be all that distressing."
Leaving aside the fact that I'm not okay with my own death, I'm certainly not okay with the death of everyone on the planet.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I think one flaw with Chad's interpretation is that the Temple of Israel was destroyed more than once, and on at least one ocassion, they got to rebuild.
Whose to say we wouldn't get a chance to rebuild? Why is it a sign of the end times, as opposed to a symbolic likeness of the literal destruction of the Temple of Israel?
-Bok
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I have been hearing End of Days scenarios since Ronald Warren Reagan--six letters in each of his names--was elected president.
And many of them had stronger support, both scripturally and coincidentally, than this one.
The idea is that we have reached the end of the stories and we chosen few, who were lucky enough to be born at the right time, in the right families to be given the right religion at the right place, will gain everlasting heaven because we were right and all the rest of you folk were wrong--nyah, nyah.
I think its an egotistical idea, and very non-Christ-like.
Its easier to be Christ-like by fighting the devil than it is to live as he lived.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
I was born in June, 1966, and for a while as a kid I was genuinely worried that I might grow up to be the antichrist. Talk about self-importance!
Posted by SeeDKing (Member # 6998) on :
quote: Leaving aside the fact that I'm not okay with my own death, I'm certainly not okay with the death of everyone on the planet.
So why aren't you okay with your own death?
Disregarding the everyday things like driving a safe car, not running into traffic, avoiding high risk situations and such, why would you be concerned with the fact that you are going to die. Its going to happen to you. Its going to happen to me. Everyone on this planet at this moment will die in at least 100 years. So why all the fuss?
Dont get me wrong, everyone does what they can to survive, but worrying about death, and trying to keep it from ever happening just seems like a waste of the time that I do have.
Of course you may not worry about it to that degree, you may be talking about things such as nuclear holocaust, or other man made ways of causing the end of billions of lives. I am most certainly not OK with that, but if I worried everything that is out of my control such as dieing of old age, or the world exploding because of some random natural event, I would never leave my house. Hell I probably wouldn't own a house because then I would have to trust in the people who built it .
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"why would you be concerned with the fact that you are going to die"
Well, just to be flippant about it, it's partly because I'd miss all my stuff.
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
I tend to think that we are living in the last phase of human history BUT how long that phase lasts depends on the choices of human beings.
The human race now has many ways available to wreak massive worldwide devastation if we desire to do so. The longer we refrain from doing so (and I hope we never do so), the longer this phase of history will last.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
As a Christian I believe it's my duty to keep my eyes open, but I spent too much of my young years worried that time was about to end and I've chosen not to think about it anymore, if I can help it. I've read the books, I know what to watch out for, but so many people waste all their days worrying about it. Kids grew up without being prepared for adulthood because their parents didn't think they'd be around to see it. I think that if you stop living in order to sit around and wait for Christ to return, you are not using your valuable time very wisely.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm more concerned by people who refuse to think about our economic and/or environmental futures because they don't believe we'll have one.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Tom, exactly. Something that baffles me is the amount of apathy I see from Conservative Christians about the environment. Like they honestly don't expect to have to deal with the results of crapping on the planet.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote:This is God, be ready to go on May 15, 2007
If God has a sense of humor, I fully expect the world to end May 15, 2007. Thanks a lot Sopwith!
I don't expect the world to end. I believe in my heart of hearts that Auhnold will kill the devil incarnate and save us all.
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
quote:Something that baffles me is the amount of apathy I see from Conservative Christians about the environment. Like they honestly don't expect to have to deal with the results of crapping on the planet.
What people don't realize is that when Christ arrives and sees what a mess they've made of earth, he's going to be really pissed off.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
I have long been of the opinion that we are living between apocolli, it is a statistical certainty that if we do not get off the planet or achieve a certain level of technology (which we are not at yet!) we are doomed by the next climate crashing disaster, I wrote an essay called "Toba to Yellowstone Our Window to get into Space". My manifesto for space travel. I will have to see if have it on an old disk somewhere...
Anyway I also got the feeling that Jesus felt the press of time, not for his life but for man to survive! I think much vitality and advancement came about from Christianity meeting the discipline and spirtual vacumm of Rome. Coincidence? The Bible shows that the Paul was directed that way, and Constantine was also converted by a heavenly signpost. We would not be at our current level of tech if it were not for Christ! Perhaps that was the plan?
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The symbolism that is.
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Dag.![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
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