quote: "There is a revival taking place in our nation that is causing Christian and right-minded people to say, `Wait a minute. We've gone too far,"' says the Rev. Patrick Wooden Sr., pastor of the Raleigh church. "We're not going to allow the country to continue this downward spiral to the left."
quote: In California, a group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas is boycotting Macy's and its corporate parent, Federated Department Stores, accusing them of replacing "Merry Christmas" signs with ones wishing shoppers "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays." The organization cites "the recent presidential election showing political correctness is offending millions of Americans."
quote: "I think it is part of a growing movement of people with more traditional values, which make up the majority of people in this country, saying enough is enough," says Greg Scott, a spokesman for the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund.
quote: "Why not simply require stores owned by Jews to put a gold star in their ads and on their storefronts?" the Rev. Jim Melnyk, associate rector of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Raleigh, wrote in a letter to the editor.
What the...?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Jeepers. Reading this article makes me wonder, wait, is this a parody site? And makes me realize why it is sometimes difficult to tell religious parody sites from real sites.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Reading, it sounds to me like both sides are being too sensitive about the issue. I mean, apologizing for accidently calling the "Winterfest Tree" a "Christmas Tree"? Or being offended that a public office says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas? Come on people, get a life and stop being so offended.
But the idea of posting a six pointed star if your store is Jewish totally creeped me out. Did this reverend realize the implications of what he said?
[ December 15, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Amka ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Apparantly not. My goodness.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
But if they do that, they'll have to call it flair.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
When read in context the Jewish star thing is sarcasm.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
Pathetic. I'd like to wish these people a Happy Saturnalia. Let them stew over that one for awhile.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
mph - But they'll also have to remember to include at least 12 other pieces of flair, otherwise they're just not trying.
That is just a really strange thing. I suppose no one ever bothered to tell these people that Christmas was just another Roman Christianification of a popular pagan holiday (much like Easter ). I have no problem with Christians who want to focus on Christ during this time of year (I try to do that myself) but I certainly don't expect everyone to do so - that would be arrogant and just plain silly.
[ December 15, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: that would be arrogant and just plain silly.
Nail. Head. Hit.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
This sounds silly, but I guess what can you expect when you have folks on the other side complaining about Christmas carols in schools or nativity scenes in public places. Can't people just chill?
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
I think it's overreaction to overreaction.
A local story here focused on a senior at Mt Baker HS (aside: our Patrick went to this school for a while, btw...and where is he anyway?) who was chastized by the vice-principal for using the word "Christmas" in an announcement over the PA for a toy drive one of the student organizations was running. Later, the district added that saying Christmas is okay, but only if they included the words Kwaanza (does anyone know anyone who actually truly celebrates Kwaanza??) and Channakah in the same announcement. Additionally, the school district asked their staff to change the name of their intra-staff "Secret Santa" gift exchange to "Secret Pals".
This is just absurd. Especially the Santa --> Pals conversion.
It's not too surprising that some people, who should definitely also grow up and get a life, swing the other direction of the pendulum and want to shove their "Christmas" up people's noses.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Obviously everyone just needs to start celebrating December. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Or Decemberween.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Amka, Rev. Melnyk's letter was anti this idea, saying that requiring stores to say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holiday's" would be as ridiculous as requiring Jewish owned businesses to display Jewish symbols. I don't doubt that the Nazi-implications were deliberate.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I agree that it's over-reaction to over-reaction. I don't have a problem with saying Happy Holidays to the general public, because you can pretty much guarantee that not all of your customers are Christians.
However, if you do want to say Merry Christmas anymore, you can't! I went to buy some business Christmas cards, you know the ones that have thanks for your business through the years inside, and not one of them referenced Christmas in any way! I wasn't planning on sending out cards with nativity scenes in them, I just wanted something that said Christmas on it somewhere.
So it's gone too far in one direction, and the reaction is people like this wanting to go too far in the other.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Merry Billtmass! *breaks out Pina Coladas*
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Ah, the joys of Billtmas.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I think it's overreaction to overreaction.
Ding ding ding!
I have one Jewish friend I exchange gifts with in December, and we always joke about whether he gives Hannakah gifts to me and I give Christmas gifts to him or vice-versa. I wished people Merry Christmas in the office in December, used Happy Holidays on the cards we sent out, and cheerfully accepted any greeting of holiday well-wishing from the giver.
It's not that hard, people.
Dagonee
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Just for the record, I use two different words to refer to what I consider to be different holidays. I use Christmas to refer the the celebration of the birth of Jesus, which, in truth, no one can exactly pinpoint so it's pretty much up to the observers when they want to celebrate it. I use "X-mas" or "holiday season" to refer to the time that people give gifts just for the sake of giving them and to feel a special glow that comes from the anticipation of opening presents and seeing the happiness on someone's face when they open yours.
I celebrate Christmas. I do not, in general, celebrate X-mas. I do like to give baked treats or do a service for the people I love in rememberance of Christ, and go to a church service.
I do not have a problem with people celebrating what I refer to as "X-mas". I just don't do it myself.
I also don't have a problem with them calling it Christmas. I think it's silly, particularly for people who don't worship Christ, but it doesn't offend me.
[ December 15, 2004, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
One of the cell phone companies has a commercial I just heard this morning. Dad proposes that the family celebrate the season by giving each other hugs instead of presents.
Dead silence.
Then the announcer comes on and tells Dad to get the family cell phones to go with the hugs. I had an issue with this. I can understand the phone company not wanting people to get out of their retail binge this time of year, but the idea that someone who discourages gluttonous consumerism is some kind of freak really bugged me.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
Sad fact - Christmas was secularized a long time ago.
And as for the X in Xmas. Do you realize that a lot of strongly believing Christians, in an academic setting, use X as the standard abbreviation for Christ, as in Xian or Xtian instead of writing out Christian? They see it as an abbreviation, not disrespectful and not as "taking Christ out of" anything. To them, Xmas is nothing more nor less than an abbreviation for Christmas.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Yes, I did realize.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Has anyone seen the Verizon commercials that try to combine every holiday they can possibly think of into one big one?
Those make me mad, all of these holidays exist for a reason, not just so that we can have a nice winter celebration to give gifts at, and I don't think you're going to make anyone happy by combining them all into some sort of winter extravaganza celebration.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
No problem to us that consider Christmas a perversion of a perfectly fun and entertaining pagan holiday.
Just sayin'.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: The organization cites "the recent presidential election showing political correctness is offending millions of Americans."
Anyone want to defend this idea that seems to be popping up quite often these days?
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
You know, I think it's really interesting. Supposedly it's conservatives (whatever that means) who hate PC and liberals (whatever that means) who perpetuate it. Kind of makes me wonder where I fit. I would test out as pretty darn liberal on just about any scale you'd care to use, but I find the vast majority of PCness to be highly annoying.
Edited to add that I've come to believe that each end of the political spectrum has a species of PC, it's just different depending on which end of the scale one falls on.
[ December 15, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: littlemissattitude ]
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
Call me a godless heathen if you must, but I don't see anything "sad" about the secularization of Christmas. Those who want to use it to celebrate the life of Jesus of Nazareth are free to do so, and I would never try to tell them they shouldn't. As far as I'm concerned, Christians can celebrate Jesus any day they want to. I have nothing against Jesus. From what I know of his philosophy, I like Jesus.
But considering the connection of Jesus to this holiday was originally just a Church ploy to distract Romans from debauchery, I can't see that it really befouls anything to celebrate it as a secular holiday. If the pagan festival of Saturnalia hadn't been so hugely popular to the Romans, then there wouldn't even be a Christmas.
When the Empire converted to Christianity, the Church needed to do away with the debauched pagan holiday. They couldn't just ban it outright, because the people wouldn't have stood for it; it was far too popular. So the Church gave them a new holiday to replace it: Christmas. The whole point was to give Romans something better to do than gamble and hold orgies. It had nothing to do with Christ's birth. Nobody even knows when that was, though I understand the most educated guesses place it in the springtime.
So, as an agnostic, I like having Christmas available to me as a secular holiday so I can celebrate it right along with all the Christians who assign it more spiritual meaning than I do.
[ December 15, 2004, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Verily the Younger ]
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
![[Monkeys]](graemlins/monkeys.gif)
). I have no problem with Christians who want to focus on Christ during this time of year (I try to do that myself) but I certainly don't expect everyone to do so - that would be arrogant and just plain silly. ![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)