As some of you know, I'm in process of a divorce. We're still legally married, though we've been separated for over a year, living in different states, etc, and my soon-to-be-ex has "possession" of the kids, though we still have joint custody.
That said: Am I wrong to be upset with her for having this latest boyfriend spend most every waking moment (and apparently nearly every non-waking one as well) at her home? And is it wrong to be uspset that my kids tell me this as though it's the most normal thing in the world for Mommy to be having a man who isn't her husband napping in her bed most afternoons and spending most every night in her home?
Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
No, I would definately be upset. If you're looking for custody though, maybe it will help to point out that mommy isn't teaching children good lessons? *shrug*
[ December 24, 2004, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Tater ]
Posted by Lisha-princess (Member # 6966) on :
My mom did that. My dad got custody of us. We moved away. And I am so thankful.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
How old are the kids?
Although, honestly, if they were my kids, I wouldn't care how old they were - I would still think it terrible. The parents are supposed to set the good example and teach the children. That's they're role.
I dunno. Sounds to me like you're having a particularly normal reaction. Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Why do you ask, Magson? Are you looking for support, to vent, or for objective discussion?
I ask because I know you have a very long and painful history with the ending of this marriage, and I suspect what you want and need may be support and venting. Which is what people are here for, too.
I just don't want someone to accidentally misread you and respond to the wrong question.
FWIW, it sounds to me like you are in an awful place and understandably upset.
[ December 25, 2004, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Sara is teh awesome.
Happy Christmas Posted by Danzig avoiding landmarks (Member # 6792) on :
I can give you an answer, but I do not know it is quite the one you want to hear.
In a nutshell, it sounds from past threads as though your soon-to-be ex-wife was at fault for the divorce. However, it seems emotionally you two are already both single. So there is nothing worse with her doing this than with any other single mother doing this.
Personally, I believe sex should be saved for marriage, or at least committed relationships. But as she obviously does not, it makes things different. If there were no children I would say to get over it. As there are, the main problem is the bad example. You have a hard task ahead of you trying to teach them that their mother's behavior is not admirable without demonizing her totally. Her actions may be deplorable, but kids are not going to want to hear you "bad-mouthing" (bad word with connotations I dislike, but I cannot think of a better one) her.
Also, the longer amount of time she has been with this boyfriend, the less bad it is. Not that I personally think it is ever ok, but I have somewhat old-fashioned ideas about intimacy. Still, six months is a lot different than six weeks.
Hope it helps, but it probably will not. Good luck, and best wishes.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
No, I don't think you are wrong to be upset. It's an upsetting thing to happen, and those are your kids. I'll join with Sara in not being sure if you're looking for validation or advice, but I do feel very sure that you can handle this with the grace and wisdom that you have shown in everything else. Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
Yes, I'm primarily just venting. One more betrayal to add to the long list. I'm just wishing it would stop growing longer all the time.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
I think anyone in your position would be upset. How is he treating the kids?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
(((Magson)))
Arrrggghhh...
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
Sounds like you need to get the divorce over with so she can move on and marry this guy if she wants to, it is best if she is not having out of wedlock sex in front of the kids after all.
If you have been separated a year you should be able to no-fault the divorce as soon as you can get a date in court.
Get a girlfriend, younger, prettier and devoted, you will feel better. Kids are weird, they can be so self centered they hardly notice or care about was does not intrude on them.
BC
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
(((((Magson)))))
Yes, I think she is wrong -- very wrong. But then again, I'm waiting to date until my divorce is legal. So I'm clearly biased.
And I strongly disagree with BC. I hope you do find someone else to share your life with. But "younger" and "prettier" should be irrelevant -- I pray you find someone who you love as a person.
I'm glad your kids have your example, and hope you can spend more time with them. Divorce is really tough on kids, too.
I hope the coming year brings you and your children joy and peace, Magson. Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
yes I am wrong pretty is irrelevant... trying to keep a straight face... trying... uh.. uh..
BC
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Magson, this is a very tough situation and your being upset is perfectly natural. The fact that you're thinking about this from the kids perspective and not from mere jealousy speaks well of you.
Dagonee P.S., at this stage I'm sure you have a lawyer involved, but just in case, please be aware that contrary to BC's advice, divorce laws differ from state to state. There's usually much more to it than that.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Magson, I'm sorry this is such a tough situation.
I'd like to offer a somewhat different perspective from previous posters. I did in fact date my now-husband before my divorce became legal - my divorce took over a year due to the fact that my ex refused to sign the papers. That said, I did not have my now-husband spend the night in my home, but he did spend a lot of time with the kids once things became serious between us. How long has she dated this man?
I ask because at least in my case that made a difference (at least to me). Once my husband and I became serious, and eventually engaged - all while my ex still refused to sign the papers - he was a positive, loving influence on my children. Granted, I know nothing about your soon to be ex, or her boyfriend! I only know that in my case I had dated the same man for over a year and still received angry, hostile phone calls from my ex about him spending time with the children.
Is your wife sincere in her relationship with this man, or is he just one in a long string of boyfriends? If it's serious, then hopefully you two can work together to see that everyone's needs and wants are met. If it's not serious and this has happened before, I would definately bring it up with your attorney. If you have legal joint custody then you have every right to decide how the children are raised and what they are exposed to. Of course, you have this right even if you don't have joint custody, but having joint custody gives you a better legal leg to stand on, so to speak.
Have you tried writing your soon to be ex a letter about the situation? This way she is informed that you're worried about what the kids are being exposed to, and you also have written notice of it. CC a copy of it to your lawyer, and document everything. Best of luck.
space opera
edit: I can spell
[ December 25, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
Posted by Lisha-princess (Member # 6966) on :
I do recall, while my parents were either first divorced or just separated, that my mom's boyfriend slept with her allll the time. It was not cool. I was only five years old at the time, but I definitely remember it. She eventually married him, and they've been married for a good 11 or 12 years now, and I've come to terms with it, but it took a really long time for me to be comfortable with him and to accept him. Obviously, as a five-year-old, I didn't really understand what was going on, but I knew that whatever it was, it was wrong an I was not okay with it.
Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
I do think having him sleepover before the divorce is final is innappropriate. Do the two of you have a temporary parenting plan done? I'm not a lawyer nor have I ever been through a divorce, but if you need to vent, we're here.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
I know what you're going through, Magson. My ex is doing exactly the same thing. And it is difficult because it feels like she is not only hurting you (though part of that is past tense) but that her example (and the inconsistancy and instability) is hurting the child.
That said, I do believe that your beliefs concerning the morality of the situation can be stated without "demonizing mommy". My son knows how I feel and, thankfully at least, she doesn't try to pretend there's anything right about what she's done/is doing. So as we spend time together, I have made sure he knows that what she is doing is wrong- both the infidelity and the current "living situation." At the same time, I have made it a point to continually uphold her when it came to decisions and feelings on other things. That way, he does not try to play us against one another. I try to be positive about talking about mommy and that sometimes good people make mistakes, but that she is still a good mommy and that she cares for him. As I said, the fact that she is honest with him about the fact that she has done wrong in this situation, makes this easier for him to see consistancy (he's 6). In the end, I do believe that he has come to view his mom (and by extension, me as his father) as imperfect people and prone to mistakes. That he can love her and respect her while at the same time knowing that what she is doing is wrong. And he does love her.
As a parent you want the best for your child. You want them to have a consistant childhood and emotional stability. These situations destroy much of that. But as difficult as it is, there is a positive (at least in this case, and hopefully with yours): that who she is with is good and kind to my son. It could be worse. Not always comforting, believe me, I know. But it does help at times. It really could be ALOT worse (though of course we, as fathers, would then step in with all resources at hand to safeguard our child).
Take care. I know what you're going through.
Ian
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Magson, Of course you are not wrong to feel upset. That does not mean she is necessarily wrong for doing what she is doing, either. While I do not agree with her choice, hopefully it will work out well for her, and therefore your kids.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
Find a woman with a rebelliously wild teenage daughter and a newborn you can hire a non english speaking illegal 19 yr old nanny for. You will feel better!
BC
(Edit) Or catch her on tape and get custody! Depends on your seperation agreement though, you can borrow my AV stuff while I am gone!
[ December 27, 2004, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Bean Counter ]
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
While the more and more that I read BC's posts, the more and more I refer BC to Bull Crap, he does have a small bit of sense in the last thing he said in the edit. Don't get me wrong, that's not the method I would go about it. But if you wish to gain joint-custody or even possession of the children, show the court what the mother is doing.
That deffinatly is a bad influence to your children, it just... well peeves me off to know someone would do that, especially while the divorce isn't final. If you show the court that your soon to be ex is being a bad influence to that degree, I'm sure they would see your point in at least gaining Joint-Custody.
Not sure if I helped any, but I hope this works out for the better!
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
Thanks everyone. Like I said before, it's mostly just venting. The next hearing is set for 19 January and at that one the "Child Care Rep" will be assigned. He's a licensed Child Psychiatrist and evaluator. He'll interview the kids individually and together, as well as my stbx. He'll also spend time there to evaluate her parenting methods and such. I'm sure she'll do everything she can to be "on her best behavior" then, but these CCR's are supposed to be trained to detect that type of thing. biggest problem I'm having right now is that my stbx is telling the kids that everything she's doing with this guy *is* okay -- when it's not. That's where I'm torn. Do I tell them that that "Mommy's being bad" or do I just let the situation unfold and let this CCR deal with it for me? I've spoken with her about the past sleepover boyfirends she has had and she insists that "nothing happened" and that she's not doing anything wrong -- and truly, in her warped mind, I think she believes it. And if she can't be convinced that what she's doing is wrong (primarily due to her spineless parents refusing to condemn the behavior also. I think that if they would have done so at the beginning instead of supporting her in it becuz "she's an adult and can make her own choices, and since she's our daughter we will support her no matter what") . . . anyway, I'm rambling now. More venting, if you will. Last sunday at church with her I was pretty ticked at the beginning of the meeting, but by the end, I realized she's just not worth stressing over -- I'm only concerned with what this is doing to the kids. My 7 year old especially. She knows that Mommy shouldn't have this guy over, but she likes the guy, and it's not like SHE can tell her emotionally abusive mother what to do. Not unless she wants to be screamed at.
Anyway. . thanks for all your kind words everyone. I appreciate your thoughts and your support.
JC
Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
quote: Do I tell them that that "Mommy's being bad" or do I just let the situation unfold and let this CCR deal with it for me?
That's a tough question. I'm pretty sure you can't rely on the CCR to be proactive about your children's moral development. I think sharing your personal feelings at an age appropriate level for your children is a good idea. "I feel hurt..." "I am concerned about you kids..." is better than talking about her and what she's like.
That way, if the kids turn around and tell her what you said, she can't really refute it truthfully. Children are very changeable depending on who they are with. They want to please the parent they have to depend on right now. I think they may appear to agree with you while you're talking to them, but it will produce internal conflict for them when they return to her home.
I guess I'd favor teaching them what is right and allowing them eventually to make their own evaluation of her. With the 7 year old it does start to be more of an issue, though the younger ones are still learning basic socialization and a statement like "mommy is bad" isn't going to register and could undermine your credibility with them.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
It's pretty standard here in OK now to write in a "no adults of the opposite sex overnight unless you're married to them" clause in custody arrangements. I know this doesn't really help you, but maybe you could suggest it to your attorney? Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
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