quote:

---

Two-thirds of the Maldives capital has been flooded after a series of tsunami waves triggered by an earthquake swamped the low-lying Indian Ocean archipelago, the chief government spokesman has said.

"The damage is considerable," Ahmed Shaheed told Reuters. "The island is only about three feet (one metre) above sea level and a wave of water four feet (1.3 metres) high swept over us."

---

Taken from here

This is where my sister and her family lives, and we haven't heard from her yet. Considering that damage is considerable, they may not have telephones or cell phone towers, so even if they're fine, which is what we're assuming for the time being, we may not hear from them in a while.

Here's to praying for them.
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
Oh no!

*prays*
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Estimates have now reached at least 3000 dead, with 1500 of them in Sri Lanka. You can read about it here here and here.

The airport in the Maldives has been completely destroyed from what I've heard. That's where my brother in law works, so I'd have to say he's now out of a job. They were scheduled to visit us in January - arriving January 5th - for a three week visa to renew their tourist visas (sister, niece and nephew - brother in law has work visa). Given that the airport effectively no longer exists, I have no idea how that's going to happen. I suspect that their entire lives are now likely up in the air.

I just heard from them. Short message, no information, but I've heard from them.

Just got another message. They have no tv, so had no idea that anything had happened. I gather they've been inside all day and are in an area that's not flooded. Will find out more later. But they said all is normal with them, so this is all good! Whew!
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Wow, how terrible! I heard the news and ran to get online and see if you were okay. I'm so glad you are all right, and your sister as well. The news said hundreds of people died there and many more missing.

<prayers for all the victims>

What can we do?

[ December 26, 2004, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Estimates are at 4500 dead and climbing, and it looks like at least half those are in Sri Lanka, and most of the rest are in India. Estimates are also currently at over 1 million Sri Lankan are displaced. Sri Lanka has a total population of around 20 million, so this is 5% of the population. Death, injured, and displaced counts will continue to rise.

Aftershocks are expected to continue for 3-4 days and may be as high as 7 in magnitude.

It ain't over.

What you can do:

Pray. And often. People around here will need all the prayers they can get.
Donate. Whether it's the red cross or whatever organizations will step in and help, I have no idea. But when it does become clear, help out as much as you can however you can.

But as for Fahim and I, we'll likely continue being unaffected unless a major earthquake hits here. (You know, this was part of my reason in leaving Vancouver, BC - major earthquake zone. Damn, but this stuff follows me around.)

Sri Lanka has declared a national state of emergency.

[ December 26, 2004, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: quidscribis ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Shockwaves have hit Malaysia and Indonesia. Ships have been swamped and sunk.

As a side note, all regular programming has been cancelled until further notice on tv. It's all news, every channel. Interestingly enough, the news on tv is much older than what's available on the internet. The television is reporting 300 dead in Sri Lanka, whereas internet reports indicated anywhere from 1500-3500 dead in Sri Lanka.

The biggest problem in Sri Lanka - and that's caused so many to die here - is that so many people live right on the beach. There's no land available, so they live wherever they can. And a lot of people live in structures that are no more than four posts, leaves for a roof, and perhaps corrugated iron sheets leaning against the posts for walls. Homes like we're used to in the west are not affordable enough for the poor. We have church members who live in huts in the jungle who consider themselves lucky to have a roof.

Death tolls are now reporting as over 5,000. And climbing.

Another problem is that there are so many tourists right now in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Thailand, etc. Because they were escaping the cold winters elsewhere and wanted to celebrate Christmas and New Years where it's warm. It's going to take a while before a complete list of the missing is compiled.

This all just makes me want to cry.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
<<<<<<<hugs>>>>>>>

How terrible!
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Oh quid! I am SO glad to see you here! I got on this morning as I get ready for church specially to see if you were okay after hearing about this. I was so hoping and praying you weren't in a coastal area.

I will definately be praying for your sister and others! They are saying on the news here it is the largest recorded earthquake in all history, not just 40 years. 8.9 is just unfathomable!

I have to run -- I'm just so happy to see you here!

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
I'm also glad to know you're safe. And will pray for everyone affected by this.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Will the waves continue to travel around the world? Are there more coastal areas due to be hit?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I heard from my sister. They were so unaffected by this that they didn't even know that anything had happened, other than feeling some tremors during the night. Their first clue that anything happened was receiving an SMS from me asking if they were okay.

However, the airport in the Maldives is completely flooded and closed indefinitely. All flights are cancelled. My brother in law is an aircraft mechanic for puddle jumpers - sea planes. He has no idea if he still has a job. The planes may all be destroyed, for all they know. Or they may be perfectly fine. He'll go in to work tomorrow and find out. But really, job or no, they're fine.

They were supposed to fly here January 5th, but that's not going to happen given that they, unlike the many tourists there, have a place to stay and don't absolutely have to leave the country.

Sri Lanka has already put out a request for international assistance. India is sending warships - to help or to invade? I'm kidding at the last comment . . .

Now I'm starting to wonder what we - as in, those of us here - can do to help. This is an excellent opportunity to get the locals involved in helping other people, and man alive, thtey need to learn how to help others. But that's a whole other aside that I won't get into here. Or, at least, not now.
 

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Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
 
Just read the news, Quid, and immediately came over here to the 'Rack to make sure you were okay. Thanks for posting immediately, and letting us know you are okay.

Our prayers are with you and all the people in that part of the world.

Lisa
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
There's a nice map here that shows what areas are affected by tsunami, so check that out. The map is near the bottom of the page.

Considering that the Maldives - off the south west coast of India - experienced only 4 foot waves, that's pretty much as far as they go. They lose energy as they travel, you see. Of course, I'm no wave expert, and it's been decades since I learned all about wave theory in physics, but . . . yeah, they're losing energy.

However, new tsunamis will be created as the aftershocks occur, which they're expected to for a few days. We'll see how it goes.
 

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Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
 
Oh, quidscribis, this is so terrible. Thanks for the updates -- I just finished reading the thread aloud to my sweetie.

It'll be a sober day around the world.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
Glad you're safe. I'll add my prayers as well.

[ December 26, 2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
According to US Geological Survey

quote:

---

This is the fifth largest earthquake in the world since 1900 and is the largest since the 1964 Prince William Sound, Alaska earthquake.

---

MAG UTC-TIME region
y/m/d deg

6.3 11:05:01 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
6.2 10:19:30 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
6.5 9:20:01 NICOBAR ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.8 7:38:25 ANDAMAN ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.7 7:07:10 ANDAMAN ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.7 6:21:58 ANDAMAN ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
7.3 4:21:26 NICOBAR ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
6.1 3:08:42 ANDAMAN ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.9 2:59:12 OFF THE WEST COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATRA
6 2:51:59 ANDAMAN ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.8 2:36:06 ANDAMAN ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.8 2:34:50 OFF THE WEST COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATRA
6 2:22:02 NICOBAR ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.8 2:15:58 ANDAMAN ISLANDS,INDIA REGION
5.9 1:48:47 NORTHERN SUMATRA, INDONESIA
8.9 0:58:51 OFF THE WEST COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATRA

That's a fairly good number of aftershocks, and pretty strong. Info taken from US Geological Survey's website.
 

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Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
 
This is terrible.

I'm glad you're ok.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
{{{{{{{{Quid and Fahim}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{Quid's family}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{Everyone in Sri Lanka and all other affected areas}}}}}}}}}
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Honestly, we're fine. We're not affected AT ALL. And my sister and her family are also fine. Perhaps jobless, but that's not the end of the world for them. It's a contract position which ends in another three or four months, and they're here to see the world and working their way through it. Anyway, what I'm basically saying is this: don't feel bad for us. We're okay.

But definitely pray for/send good vibes out for everyone out here who is affected.

Thanks for the good thoughts and concern and love, everyone.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
I just read about this too and saw Sri Lanka was part of it and immediately came to Hatrack to check on you. Thank God you're alright. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone else affected.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Quidscribs, I'm so glad you're okay. I just saw the news, and immediately came here to make sure that you were. Thanks for the updates.
 

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Posted by Vána (Member # 6593) on :
 
I'm so glad you and your sister are alright. As soon as I heard about it, I ran here to see if we'd heard from you yet.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
You know, I wonder what impact this will have on the orangutan? The waves wouldn't have effected them much, of course, but their populations are so low that if the quake killed many of them, it could conceivably mean the end of their species, in the wild anyway (and I doubt those we have in captivity have large enough numbers to have the necessary genetic diversity to preserve the species).
 

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Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
 
It was bizarre to wake up and finish the LOTR marathon, and then discover that possibly ten thousand people or more were struggling for life at the mercy of uncarring nature. As you say, it seems to be the poor and marginal that are worst effected. Like the annual news of 300 dead in the Monsoons. Only an order of magnitude greater. From the size of the aftershocks I wonder if we are not in for some more quakes around the ring of fire.

I am glad that you and your family is safe quib, you seem a decent fellow, I'd hate for you to die!

The tsunami report is negetive for the West Coast, it seems that the epicenter is on the other side of that line of islands.

BC
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
Same as others, quid. I heard the news and thought of you. Glad you're okay.

But this is terrible. I'm hearing radically different numbers of deaths and uniform reports of destruction and devastation.

What surprises me is yesterday, news sites were reporting a massive mid-sea earthquake. Surely someone must have guessed that this would trigger a tsunami. Why were there no warnings, or even mentions? The only worries yesterday seemed to be about the penguins (and I'm serious).
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Add me to the line of people who are very glad to here you're safe, quidscribis.

And BC, quids is not a decent fellow. She's a fabulous babe. Just FYI.
 

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Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
 
Even better though I am not sure 'fellow' is gender specific, at least not in all its usages. I am saddened that so many people relaxing and enjoying the beach were injured or killed, it should be out of bounds for major disasters.

BC
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 

quote:

---

What surprises me is yesterday, news sites were reporting a massive mid-sea earthquake. Surely someone must have guessed that this would trigger a tsunami. Why were there no warnings, or even mentions? The only worries yesterday seemed to be about the penguins (and I'm serious).

---

quote:

---

And BC, quids is not a decent fellow. She's a fabulous babe. Just FYI.

---

Yes, but if he hadn't referred to her as fellow he couldn't have made a Princess Bride reference. A good Princess Bride reference is worth a little gender confusion.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Ah! now that sentence makes a lot more sense and is, well, let's be honest here, a lot less offensive!
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
"yesterday, news sites were reporting a massive mid-sea earthquake."

That was a different large earthquake about halfway between Antarctica and Australia. Almost entirely horizontal/sideways movement on the fault which meant little-to-none tsunami action.
It's the vertical up and/or down movement on a fault which produces the large tsunami.

[ December 26, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Actually, that earthquake (between Australia and Antarctica) was three days before the one centered off the west coast of the Indonesian island of Sumatra, and Sri Lanka is 1,000 miles away from the epicenter.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
I found this rather frightening.

quote:

---

"All the planet is vibrating" from the quake, said Enzo Boschi, the head of Italy's National Geophysics Institute. Speaking on SKY TG24 TV, Boschi said the quake even disturbed the Earth's rotation.

---

Threw off the rotation of the earth? What are the implications of that?

And am I the only one who is thinking about The Day After Tomorrow?

And does everyone realize that this, just so far, is 3 times the number of people that died on 9/11?
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
So far no reports out of Bangladesh. Considering that a large portion of the country is barely above sealevel, and that coastal shelf is wide and shallow*, Bangladsh may be particularly hard hit.

* A wide and shallow seabotton causes the width&bredth of a tsunami wave to compact into height.
 

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Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
 
*still watching as I work

The real-life story of this is so sad. How many individual people bleeding, dying, in painful suffering -- children losing parents, parents losing children. Lives destroyed in minutes.

[ December 26, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
I know. It's like the death of the bees, isn't it?
 

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Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
 
(*not familiar with the reference )
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Red Prophet.

Hobbes
 

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Posted by babager (Member # 6700) on :
 
Wow... how sad and scary..
I'm glad to hear you and your family are ok.
 

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Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
 
Ah, yeah, of course.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I usually check my email, then the news, then Hatrack. Today, for whatever reason, I skipped the news.

I'm glad, because that way I knew quid was ok at the same time I found out about the disaster.

My prayers go out to all those affected.

Death toll nears 9,500.
 

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Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
 
QUID, I'm glad you're ok. I hope your family is safe.

(((quid & Fahim)))
(((quid's family)))
(((all who've been affected by this)))
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 

quote:

---

More than 7,000 people are reported dead around southern Asia, most killed by massive tidal waves that smashed coastlines around the region after a magnitude 8.9 earthquake in Indonesia on Sunday morning, followed by reports of a 7.3 magnitude jolt in India's Andaman and Nicobar Islands in the Indian Ocean.

---

That total is from a while ago. FOX just said the death toll was over 10,000 and still climbing, but that confirms that there were reports of another earthquake later in the morning.

I wonder if it was an aftershock or if it was yet another earthquake. And if it was another earthquake, and it was the third in a series that included the one 350 miles north of Macquarie Island, the one off Sumatra and then the one in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, what's next? Will the fact that it affected the earth's rotation have any impact of the path of the earth's rotation? And will that have changed our rotation enough to change the outcome of the meteorite that was supposed to hit in 2029? Or, more importantly, are there going to be more earthquakes in other parts of the world because of these three? Has it affected the plates of the world?

You know, Chicken Little comes out this July. I'm just getting ready.
 

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Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
 
I am sure the effect on our rotation is negligeble a testimony to the precision of our tools rather then the global disaster you fear.

Yes the Earth has lurched out of the way of the coming asteroid. Yeah! Okay that was unkind, given the circumstance, the Earth is vibrating, like a bell, it cannot leave its orbit by any means I can think of, even a caldera valcano eruption.

BC
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Physics dictates that if you take all of the mass that is called the "Earth" right now, given the following three conditions:

Nothing significant hits it (like a very large asteroid).
Nothing leaves the earth (like the asian plate falling off into space)
No significant grafitational changes occur (like the sun suddenly loosing half it's mass)

The orbit wont change. The Earth changing it's own orbit is kind of like trying to fly by grabbing your feet and pulling them up with your arms.

(And yes, technically a few other things could cause the Earth's rotation to change, but number one they're even less likely than the stuff I listed, and two that doesn't change my point).

Hobbes
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 

quote:

---

I am sure the effect on our rotation is negligeble a testimony to the precision of our tools rather then the global disaster you fear.

---

quote:

---

I was taking my morning swim around the island that my businessman-brother Geoffrey bought on a whim a decade ago and turned into a tropical paradise just 200 yards from one of the world's most beautiful beaches on the Sri Lankan mainland.

I was a quarter way around the island when I heard my brother shouting at me, "Come back! Come back! There's something strange happening with the sea." He was swimming behind me, but closer to the shore.

I couldn't understand what the fuss was about. All seemed peaceful. There was barely a ripple in the sea.

Then I noticed that the water around me was rising, climbing up the rock walls of the island with astonishing speed. The vast circle of golden sand around Welligama Bay was disappearing rapidly, and the water had reached the level of the coastal road fringed with palm trees.

As I swam to shore, my mind was momentarily befuddled by two conflicting impressions: the idyllic blue sky and the rapidly rising waters.

In less than a minute, the water level had risen at least 15 feet -- but the sea itself remained calm, barely a wave in sight.

Within minutes, the beach and the area behind it had become an inland sea, rushing over the road and pouring into the flimsy houses on the other side. The speed with which it all happened seemed like a scene from the Bible -- a natural phenomenon unlike anything I had experienced before.

As the waters rose at an incredible rate, I half expected to catch sight of Noah's Ark.

Instead of the Ark, I grabbed hold of a wooden catamaran that the local people used as a fishing boat. My brother jumped on the boat, next to me. We bobbed up and down on the catamaran, as the water rushed past us into the village beyond the road.

After a few minutes, the water stopped rising, and I felt it was safe to swim to the shore. What I didn't realize was that the floodwaters would recede as dramatically as they had risen.

All of a sudden, I found myself being swept out to sea with startling speed. Although I am a fairly strong swimmer, I was unable to withstand the current. The fishing boats around me had been torn from their moorings and were furiously bobbing up and down.

For the first time, I felt afraid, powerless to prevent myself from being swept out to sea.

---

quote:

---

Government officials lamented that if Sri Lanka was on the International Coordination Group for the Tsunami Warning System then the impact would not have been this ‘terrible’. “We cannot prevent natural disasters, but we can minimize their impact,” he said. The Tsunami system predicts where tsunamis will strike up to 14 hours in advance.

---

quote:

---

Some of the tsunamis reached as far as 1,600 kilometers (91,000 miles) from the epicenter of the 9.0 magnitude quake

---

They got the kilometre to mile conversion right later in the same article. Kind of funny. Probably just a typo, with an accidental 9 in front of the 1000.

Alright, I'm just putting the article here, because firefox sucks.

[ December 27, 2004, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Fitz ]
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I've been thinking a lot today about the town I went to school in, Galveston, Texas. It really is an island near Houston and they had a huge flood in 1900 that killed over 6,000 people.

http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~geol108/yoon/galveston_flood_1900.htm

It wasn't an earthquake, though, just a bad storm.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I heard a thing on NPR about it. It was one of those National Geographic Radio Expeditions. I was completely floored by the account of this storm. I'd never even heard of it until the radio piece.
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
quid, this is the first I've been able to get on Hatrack since I heard the news. I'm glad to know you're okay.

We'll be praying for everyone in the area. Thank you for all your news.
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
A fault line is just two plates of the Earth, that due to differing magma currents underneath, want to move in two, non-conforming directions. The existence of the other plate (and friction) halts that motion, but the pressure builds up until they can’t stop it anymore, and then a dramatic motion of plates occurs. Now the earthquake causes three kinds of motion along the fault line, a lateral motion that moves up and down the line (this within the horizontal plane of the Earth): the primary movement. The secondary movement takes two forms, one of which is perpendicular to the primary motion and still within the plane of the Earth. These two motions are pretty much fine in terms of oceanic disturbances, they wouldn’t hurt anyone. It’s the third motion (the second kind of secondary motion) that’s the problem. Vertical displacement of the bottom of the ocean as a result of the Earthquake.

Now big waves at sea, ones that can damage ships, thing like hurricanes, are caused by wind. The friction between the moving air and water rips the water up and causes massive topside waves, the top of the oceans is being messed around with. This is, however just a small fraction of the ocean, and when it reaches land it’ll stop shortly because it’s not a true rise in water level, instead it’s the teasing of the top, not a true massive movement of water. This is of course, also very devastating, but it’s effects are limited in terms of flood for that reason.

Now a tsunami from an earthquake, what happens is that the vertical land motion cause the entire height of the sea to turn into one large wave. Out in the ocean you wouldn’t notice this things, because there’s plenty of room for it. The Ocean is just moving along at the same height, the giant wave of water coming inward is about the same height as the ocean it’s moving through, so there’s no problem. But as it approaches land, it’s depth is decreased when the ocean floor slopes upwards. This massive front of water has no where to go but up, and the tremendous pressure pushing it has no problem causing the water to rise with the ocean’s surface, so the incredibly powerful force of water drives itself into the air, tens of feet (and sometimes more) above the regular ocean level. This doesn’t stop when it reaches land. The water continues to surge forward until it runs out of steam and new water to drag with it.

Hobbes
 

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Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
 
Does anybody else find the changing body count icky?

BC
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 

quote:

---

quid, this is the first I've been able to get on Hatrack since I heard the news. I'm glad to know you're okay.

---

quote:

---

Sri Lanka’s death toll likely to be in the range of 10,000 to 12,000 latest reports
Alladin Hussein in Colombo, December 27, 2004, 4.10 p.m.. The aftermath of the tidal wave terror in Sri Lanka continued with reports claiming that the death toll could be around the 10,000 to 12,000 mark. According to police sources the death toll in the Ampara district (Eastern province) alone is around the 4000 mark. Another 2000 at least is feared to have died in the Hambantota, Tangalle and Kataragama areas. Meanwhile, in Batticaloa already 650 bodies have been found, while in Jaffna another 149 have been found. The death toll in Trincomalee is nearly 600, and includes four Indian tourists. Another 900 dead bodies are there at the Galle’s Karapitiya hospital. Reports also stated that 750 bodies have been found in the Mullaitivu area and at least another 1000 are feared dead in Vuvniya and Killinochchi. However, the search for bodies is continuing and police said that hundreds more will be found within the next few days at the end of the search.

---

Taken from here.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
quid, your link had a "donate via us" link, as did a number of sites I've seen today. But it's hard for me to know which of these are reliable, and able to effectively funnel funds where they are needed.

Do you have a suggestion? The Red Cross? Some other organization(s)?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
That's a good question, a really really good question, and I don't have an answer for that right now. That would, therefore, be the next thing for me to research. Let me look around.

Having said that, the LDS church will be spending money here, so donations through your tithing slip will make it here. What amount I don't know yet. Of course, that only applies to those who are LDS.

I'll see what I can find out and post something for you. But a general guide - unfortunately - is that if the donation site is Sri Lankan, don't trust it. We have no controls in place like the US and Canada do to regulate charitable organizations, and they tend to be, uh, slippery. Is that a descriptive enough word?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I have no idea of what value for the dollar you get with any aid agency, so if you find another agency that will help out in south Asia and you get better bang for your buck, hey, feel free. I honestly don't care who you donate through. Just please donate whatever you can handle.

It appears from this article that the red cross will definitely be in Sri Lanka and other points in south Asia.

I also saw an article on the Australian Red Cross that they're looking for donations for this as well.

quote:

---

PETER CAVE: The International Federation of the Red Cross has also made a preliminary appeal for US $6.5-million, to help those affected by the tsunami. It's sending a team of health and welfare experts into the area to ascertain what is needed.

Reporter Brigid Glanville spoke to Marie-Francoise Borel from the Red Cross in Geneva.

MARIE-FRANCOISE BOREL: That'll help about 5,000 people, and it will bring immediate support to relief operations that have already been started by the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies in Sri Lanka and India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and other countries in the region after they were hit by this quake and the huge tidal waves.

BRIGID GLANVILLE: Where you can see this money being most needed?

MARIE-FRANCOISE BOREL: Well the basic needs right now for the victims in this first emergency phase are shelter, so perhaps we need some tents and blankets, clean water, food, family utensils, and probably mosquito nets.

As far as health is concerned, the biggest challenge we are facing is the spread of water borne diseases, particularly malaria and diarrhoea, and we could also run the risk of having respiratory tract infections.

So what we have done is, the International Federation is sending in tomorrow medical supplies for about 100,000 people into Sri Lanka, and also some extra medicines to treat up to 2,000 possible cases of diarrhoeal diseases.

We're also sending in an international team of coordination and relief evaluation, which will be leaving in the next few hours. Now, that will help to try and ascertain what the needs are. The big problem we have now is, as you know, the disaster is so huge that many telecommunications lines are still down, it's still very difficult to get into the region to access some of these parts, so there are actual whole regions that we still know very, very little about.

---

Taken from here.

The thought just occurred to me. Thank heavens dengue fever season is over!
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
If you want to read first-hand accounts, go here.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
I once read descriptions of what the various levels of earthquate mean. If I recall correctly, they said that 9 on the Richter scale is "the earth liquifies" meaning, essentially, that every grain of earth is movind independently of every other grain of earth in a sort of "sludge" kind of thing. No cohesion.



I've lived through some moderate ones (in Los Angeles) at a good distance from the epicenter. And we didn't have to deal with tsunamis.

I'm still praying. Donating to relief agencies sounds like a good idea too.

Is there ANY news out of Bangladesh yet?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
This report counts 2 dead in Bangladesh, but almost all reports indicate that Bangladesh is affected.

Keep in mind that it was only a few months ago that Bangladesh was 2/3 under water. Their communications infrastructure is not, shall we say, well developed. It could be a while before we get reliable reports from there.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
Thanks. I just remember their terrible floods from years past and worried (as you referenced earlier) that they may lose large numbers of people in this event.



[ December 27, 2004, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Laurie,

What you said above about the Tsunamis Warning System...... I heard on the news that same report about the need for the warning system -- they said the time from the actual earthquake, to when the tsunami hit Sri Lanka was like 2 hours! If there had been some way of warning people it was on its way, the death toll would have been much less.

I pray they will work on getting a warning system in place for that part of the world soon.

FG
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
rivka, UMCOR hasn’t updated their website specific to this event, but they already had a project going for flood and earthquake relief in South Asia. I don’t know how you’d feel about donating through a church agency, but all of the administrative stuff is paid for by the church, so 100% of donations go to the actual relief and recovery work.

http://gbgm-umc.org/umcor/emergency/southasia.stm
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
In the evening news:

Dead bodies are lying on the ground because there is no one to pick them up - there are too many. And quite honestly, would you rather they take care of the injured or the dead first? There's no drinking water because the ocean saltwater got into the wells. Diarrhea and cholera will spread because many of these people don't have clean drinking water.

Negombo is a fishing village north of Colombo. Their boats are beached helter skelter or submerged at odd angles in six or ten feet of water. Their economy is destroyed until they can build or repair the boats.

One hospital was submerged by an eight food wave - there goes that.

Only 75% of areas have electricity restored. They're having difficulties with the other areas. Keep in mind that only 2/3 of the country had electricity prior to the tsunamis.

Land mines from the civil war were dislodged by the tidal waves, causing major problems for rescue efforts and recovering dead bodies.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Quid,
I thought about you immediately, and am glad you are OK.
I have not read through the entire thread, but I thought maybe you would be a good person to send a donation to, that would get directly and immediately to someone in need.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
There are practical problems with that. Let me explain.

1. Paypal doesn't work here, so that's out.
2. We have to pay $4 US for every single international cheque, money order, bank draft, or wire transfer that we deposit to our bank account.

Well, that's pretty much it. Having said that, if that's something you want to do, keep that in mind. Donations of, for example, $5 won't do a whole lot of good when we only get $1 out of it. If it's something that some of you want to do, it would be more cost effective to lump it all together and wire transfer one lump sum. If you want to do it, we certainly can, and I have no problem making sure the money is spent on whatever the immediate needs are. Probably either clothing or medical supplies or food. That seems to be the most pressing need.

In other news, as I watched the evening news, these are some of the images I saw: I see footage of rivers with dead bodies floating down it. Dead bodies lined up in hallways, some covered in ploastic, others not, all waiting for identification or burial. School buses, the big ones, littering the beach like tinker toys. Fishing boats scattered across the beach and in the water, some on their sides, some stuck in one end or the other, others stacked on top of each other. Many listing to one side or the other. People walking around with their dead children in their arms, others begging for help finding their family. Rubble everywhere. Can't tell if it belonged to a house, a hut, or an office building or store. Vehicles sitting at odd angles in feet of mud. People - lots of people- bringing food, clothing, and other household goods to collection depots. Mountains of donated goods waiting to be sorted and distributed.
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
I have just been overwhelmed by the magnitude of this tragedy - I mean, it's hard to even wrap your mind around that much devastation.

It's like when you contemplate it, your brain shuts down and says "Nope - tragedy overload, that couldn't possibly have happened." But it did happen, and the survivors are trying to cope with the aftershocks, and the cleanup and the loss of loved ones....I just can't imagine.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Belle, I agree. I am so overwhelmed. And then I see the Yahoo headlines change. The main one started out being "Over 20,000 dead," and then it changed to "8 Americans dead." It really hit me.

Quidscribis, I am glad you said that. Where do you think a donation could be made that would go quickly and directly. Should I just go with Red Cross?
 

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Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
 
(((quidscribis)))

For the LDS here, rather than tithing slip I think there is an LDS Foundation that gives to humanitarian aid.

Well, I don't really know what to say more than that. I guess I wonder how much of the death toll is the actual disaster, and how much due to the society there. I know the poor are shunted off into areas known to be unsafe just in annual weather patterns.

The actual death count... well, various things kill more people than that just in America every year. But to have it all happen at once is staggering. And the suffering of the wounded and bereaved, the homeless, and even the now jobless is troubling.
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
TSH, I'm sure accidents and diseases and criminal violence kill a lot of people in the areas affected by the earthquake every year as well. And, to the families of people affected, each of those events is a personal tragedy.

What makes this worse, in my mind, is that all of those other people have still been/will still be affected by their personal tragedies, and this is on top of the "normal" causes of death for the year. And, happening all at once, it is likely that every person in the country is affected somehow, which makes it a national tragedy. Plus there's the effects of having huge numbers of dead bodies stacking up in tropical countries, saltwater contaminating the drinking water supplies, infrastructure being wrecked... so, yeah, it's a lot more than just the numbers.

On a "What is wrong with people" note, I was filling out forms at the post office, and the clerks were chatting. One of them brought up sending humanitarian aid, and the other said something along the lines of "Oh, I'm sure they wouldn't accept help from the infadels..." in a really snotty tone of voice.

Hearing that level of ignorance and bigotry really made me appreciate my community here at hatrack. We discussed in another thread once all the polls that show Americans not knowing basic geography or history, and I said I always wonder where they find those people, because I can't imagine they are anyone I know. It's probably good for me to be reminded every now and then that not everyone is hatrack-caliber informed/compassionate.

I almost butted in to the conversation and said something... I'm not sure if I didn't because I didn't think it would do any good or because I didn't want to deal with the scorn. Either way, I should have.
 

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Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
 
I don't even know what is the predominant religion there. But I guess knowing what you don't know is better than thinking you know what you don't know. Or something.

[ December 27, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Trisha the Severe Hottie ]
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
quids posted not to long ago that Buddhism, I believe, is the majority, then Hindi, with Christianity and Islam both around 7%... but that's just for Sri Lanka. There were several countries involved... I'm not sure if any of them are predominantly Muslim, but even if they are, it's not an area that's usually openly hostile to the US. If it was a tragedy in the Middle East I could maybe understand people taking that stance, even though I still don't think it's the right one to take. But this just, to me, shows that they have no concept of the world outside of our country.

Probably not inside, either, but that's another field of disappointment.
 

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Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
 
Yeah, it's not like it would have been an enlightened thing to say even if the afflicted country were Saudi Arabia, for instance.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Oh, dear me, it gets even sadder:

"The U.N. organization estimates at least one-third of the tens of thousands who died were children, and the proportion could be up to half, said UNICEF spokesman"

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041227/ap_on_re_as/quake_where_are_the_children
 

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Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
 
Laurie, I am so glad to hear that you are safe and pray you stay that way in the aftermath of this disaster. Between the holiday and the ice storm we've had, we are just finding out about this. Thank you for your service to the people in Sri Lanka. I wish there was something more I could do for the people affected. My prayers are for the health, safety, welfare, comfort, and recovery of all.

Love, Rain
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
The dominant religion varies from country to country that this thing hit. Indonesia and Malaysia are mostly Muslim. Thailand's south has a high Muslim population, but there are many Buddhists there as well. Burma is predominantly Muslim. Bangladesh is mostly Muslim. India's mostly Hindu, no surprises there, and yeah, what you said about Sri Lanka sounds about right ElJay.
 

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Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
 
One of the most horrifying poems to ever cling to the cockles of my mind is the one that reads "Water, Water everywhere... But not a drop to drink!" It is a terrible thing that I did not think of, all the wells tainted by salt! I hope we can provide relief.

BC
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Eljay was paying attention, class. Full marks to her! Buddhism at 70%, Hinduism at 14%, Islam at 7% and Christianity at 7%.

[off-topic] I hate those stupid rants about Muslims. Yes, I'm married to one, but even if I wasn't, I'd still be pissed off. If the Muslims really wanted to kill all the Christians - think about this - it wouldn't be that hard. There are what, 1.3 or 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world. There are enough of them, they could do it. But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of them live alongside everyone else in peace and harmony. It's the bad small fractions that give them a bad name. Same as for Buddhists (Pol Pot) or Christians (Waco, Texas), to give just two examples. [/off-topic]

What I find sad is that the earthquake/tsunami/disaster situation are now off the front pages in some places. When 9/11 hit the US, how long was it the front page news? But because this is a far-off place, the attention is already fading. The disaster is far from over. Epidemics will be hitting soon because of lack of fresh water and the dead bodies. They can't get them buried fast enough. Thousands more can still die from this if we don't provide relief fast enough.
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Still front page news here...

But I heard on the radio yesterday, it was the one year anniversery of the earthquake in Bam (sp?) Iran, and huge numbers of people are still living in tents and most of the promised foreign aid never materialized. So yeah, I'm sure this will be the same.


 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
Arrrrgh. People are just insane, ignorant, and very, very small sometimes.

I had this thought when reading this thread that it would be a wonderful opportunity to show the world that we are not just this big aggressor nation that likes to show off its military might and engage in pre-emptive warfare.

I know we (Americans) spend a lot every year on humanitarian aid, but in times like this it is important that the country get behind the effort to relieve the suffering quickly. We are capable of mobilizing like no other country on earth. And, I'm sure, whatever we do, it will be appreciated. But wouldn't it be nice if every person in this country saw this human tragedy and said to themself "we're rich, we can help..."

Oh well...I'm not really expressing this well, but the thought that someone would check to see what religion the people are first is appalling. The idea that someone would not even BOTHER checking and just assume that they are "enemy Muslims" is beyond appalling. I wish I had the nerve to yell at people or thwack them over the head. Ugh!

[/rant]
 

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Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
 
I wonder if somewhere in the Pentagon someone is being chewed out for missing Iran with our Tesla Earthquake machine...

BC
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
There's a really good animated map showing the tsunamis.

Fahim works with three Indians, all of whom either live along the east coast of India or who have relatives that live along the east coast. They're all fine as well, but they've said that the body count in India is 15,000, not the report 4 or 5 thousand. The death tolls are still behind the times, but to what extent?

I've also just read at this web site

quote:

---

Some of the country's 200 islands cannot be contacted.

Male is protected by a special artificial barrier and yet it's flooded and destroyed. The other islands have no protection - there are thousands of these islands with thousands of people, including tourists, and there's no form of communication to even let them know what is happening. We fear there may be thousands dead, including fishermen and divers.

---

quote:

---

I guess I wonder how much of the death toll is the actual disaster, and how much due to the society there.

---

quote:

---

We are capable of mobilizing like no other country on earth.

---

Bob, we don't mobilize nearly as well in reality as we do in the movies. I mean, it took us over 2 to years to make it to Europe in force and how long have we been in Iraq and we're still not prepared for that.

quid, I was really upset yesterday that there was virtually no coverage of it on TV during the day, but today, they are really covering it (not like they did 9/11, but there is a lot more coverage) and now that they have video of it, it will garner more attention. Pictures mean money here. The more film there is of death, pain and suffering, the more aid the US will send. Sad, but true.

I think if people really want to contribute, they should be e-mailing their Senators and Representatives and telling them we do to more. If they know we care, they'll care.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
The death toll continues to climb.

New estimates:

25,000 dead in Indonesia
13,000 dead in Sri Lanka, but government has warned it could reach 20,000
15,000 dead in India
800 dead in Somalia

30,000 missing on Indian islands - Andaman and Nicobar - where the majority of the aftershocks happened
1,000 still missing in Thailand
Maldives - thousands unaccounted for
Sri Lanka - thousands unaccounted for

It's not getting any better.
 

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Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
 

quote:

---

I wonder if somewhere in the Pentagon someone is being chewed out for missing Iran with our Tesla Earthquake machine...

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quote:

---

And what do we do now with that issue? Destroy it and cancel it? Issue it anyway with an apology? It's damned tactless to just issue it as is - it makes a mockery of all the dead from those villages.

---

What about rewriting it a bit, or writing a preface to it, and issuing it as a memorial to the villages.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
It's already been printed. It's sitting in boxes to be distributed.

There has been talk of putting a sticker saying "proceeds go to charity", but the magazine is just over its first year and still isn't making a profit, so what proceeds?

Yeah, a tribute might be a good idea. I'll suggest it to the editor. He asked for me to call him back, but I was not up to it today.
 

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Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I would never have guessed that the death toll would reach past 20,000... insane.

And BC, I agree that we need to do SOMETHING about that island falling into the Atlantic. Either build your massive sea-wall, or build supports for the piece of land falling in, or try and help it slip in very very slowly.


 

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Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
 
I was offline all weekend, but I immediately thought of you, quid, when I heard about this disaster.

Glad you and Fahim are okay!
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
There's been plenty of coverage here, both radio and tv.

I too cannot fathom those numbers. I live in a town with 2,400 residents. Many towns the size of mine were wiped out. I can't imagine.
 

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Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
 
It's just sad that Sri Lanka had 2hrs. to warn people of a tsunami if the warning system had been in place, as it is in the Pacific.

No one would have been bathing at the beach, at least....
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
The numbers...it's one of those things that a human being can't truly comprehend.
 

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Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
 
Going with what was posted earlier: I know that when Turkey had an earthquake in 1999, there were U.S. Navy ship's there providing fresh water. I could see this happening again.
 

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Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
 

quote:

---

I would never have guessed that the death toll would reach past 20,000... insane

---

And now closing in on 50,000. It's just so many people. It is insane to think about. And yet...There was an earthquake in China on July 28, 1976 that killed over 600,000 people. Another Chinese quake, back in 1556, is estimated to have killed 830,000. This is not to minimize the current disaster in any way, understand, but just to say that these sort of mind-boggling disasters have happened before and, sadly, will happen again.

The thing that has bothered me in some reports (especially ones on the local news) is that there has been a tone, if not actual words, suggesting that the relatively few Westerners that were lost were more important than the tens of thousands of individuals native to those nations affected who have been killed, injured, and left without homes and ways to make a living.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Laurie,

My mother travels all around the world -- from the comfort of her Lazy-Boy recliner and her World Atlas on her map

So she was looking at a map of Sri Lanka she has and asked me what major city there you live in or near -- Columbo? Kandy?

Anyway, I didn't see where you have ever mentioned what city in Sri Lanka you live in, so I thought I would ask you. It appears the whole island isn't that far across from coast to coast...

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
When I was at the church yestereday, I spoke to our district president for a bit. He's an educated man, a doctor, and has kept himself as updated on the information as he could. But he can't afford a computer, so he's been relying on the newspapers and television accounts. In the conversation we had, I told him what I knew, which was a lot more than he knew - simply because I was getting information off the internet, which isn't as old as the television or newspaper accounts.

Sometime today or tomorrow, humanitarian aid people from the church will arrive to help out. He's asked me to compile information about Sri Lanka - what's happening where, what areas need the most help, that sort of thing. The church only has so much money to spend, so they can't go everywhere and they can't fix everything. So that's going to be one role I play in this, gathering information.

And as we talked, I mentioned some of the problems to him. For example, the Battacaloa district is very badly hit. But getting transport there is almost impossible. Not enough trucks. Not enough petrol. Bridges washed out. Trains swept off the railroad tracks (killing thousands right there). And it's on the opposite side of the country where we have no church members, so we have no local contacts.

The decisions of where to go, who to give aid to are thankfully not up to me. I would hate to have that responsibility. But I can help in getting the most accurate information I can.

My second counsellor in the relief society called this morning. She was supposed to teach this Sunday on Setting Goals. That lesson is no longer appropriate for this Sunday. And she's not in any state where she's capable of teaching. She's in too much emotional turmoil. The losses . . . I don't know if she's lost anyone personally, but even if she hasn't, she's still much more connected to the loss here than I am - she's one of them. She'll have lost friends, her co-workers will have lost friends and family, her husband's friends and co-workers will have lost people. Loss is all around her. She's asked me to teach instead. I agreed, but what? I'm in emotional turmoil myself, and at this moment, I can't even think about what these sisters need to hear, or what would comfort them. The Plan of Salvation? Or would that just be rubbing things in? Chances are, I'll just wind up crying in front of them. Heck, we'll probably end up having a blubber fest together.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Sorry, Farmgirl, I didn't see your question until after I posted.

I live outside of Colombo, east about 10 kilometres inland. If you see a place called Sri Jayawardenapura on the map, which is the political capital, I'm just down the road from that.

The country is small. 240 miles long by 140 miles wide, give or take twenty miles (plus the dimension may have changed given that land mass may have been swallowed up by the ocean.) For the rest of us, that's 380 km by 220 km.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
quid, you and people like you are the unsung heroes of this relief effort.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
*sigh*

I really should have checked this thread earlier.

So glad you are OK, quid. Thank you so much for the additional information. Maybe this Sunday you can conduct a sort of testimony-meeting-style sharing time? After so much loss and terror and upheaval of everything, what they may need most is to share and cry together.

I hope the people remaining can get clean water and medical help....
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
In 1988, an earthquake struck Armenia, killing over 20,000 people. Today, according to a couple I know who were mission presidents there, homeless families are still living in the crates that Red Cross supplies came in. Over 15 years later.

My heart goes out to the incomprehensible number of people that this disaster has and will continue to affect. I currently have $30.00 to my name, but I'm going to make a $10.00 donation to the Red Cross. I only wish there was more I could do. Let's all pray for those who were a part of this disaster, and let's pray that we ourselves do not forget in the years to come.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Beverly - thanks for the idea. It's testimony Sunday anyway, so it might be the perfect thing. I MUST remember to buy a large box of kleenex.

Annie - any amount of donation will be appreciated. If every single American donated only $10, that would be $3 billion, and that could do a lot of good.

Twinky - I'm no hero. I haven't lost anything. I'm not even helping out in any huge way. I'm just using my particular skillset to help in a way that is the most meaningful that I'm capable of. I'm an information junky anyway, and I have strong Google-fu, and I'm collecting that information anyway. Now I'm just passing on what I would have done anyway.

And I'll be passing that information on to here, too. Because why should I suffer along?
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 

quote:

---

I haven't lost anything. I'm not even helping out in any huge way. I'm just using my particular skillset to help in a way that is the most meaningful that I'm capable of. I'm an information junky anyway, and I have strong Google-fu, and I'm collecting that information anyway. Now I'm just passing on what I would have done anyway.

---

That was kind of my point. People help how they can.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
I was planning on making my donation to Read First as soon as Jan 1 rolled around, but it just got rerouted to a relief agency. Probably the Red Cross.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 
Local News + Relief Agency Links

As the link says - the Vedanta group says every penny will go to the relief effort -
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
On the thought that tourism can help bring Sri Lanka out of this....

quidscribiscon 2007!!

[ December 29, 2004, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: beverly ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Yay!!!!!

But. . . Do we have to wait that long? Why not latter half of 2005? Or 2006?

For the writers out there - we can have a writer's retreat! I'm all up for that, too!

QuidscribisCon sounds fantastic!!!!!!
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
I would love to come visit. It wold have to be 2006, at the earliest, for me... I already have large chunks of vaction time alloted for 2005 and am not comfortable pre-scheduling more. I like to be able to take time off spur-of-the-moment when I just don't want to go to work.

Anyway, '06 or '07 I could totally do Sri Lanka. Um, I think my passport expires next year, I'll add renewing it to my "to-do" list.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I was thinking to give your country a generous amount of time to recover. But earlier works.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
We should have it in the dead of winter, northern hemisphere time. Wouldn't that be awesome, to go to tropical paradise for a week in mid winter?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
There are now 22,000 confirmed dead in Sri Lanka, 68,000 confirmed dead total. But there are still tens of thousands of people still missing, so the count can - and probably will - reach over 100,000.

And the epidemics haven't started yet. That can double the body count.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Aceh's death toll could reach 80,000.

Story here.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Laurie -- what about you personally? I mean, I know you and Fahim weren't in the tsunami itself, and your home wasn't destroyed, but what about your supply of food now? Or fresh water? Do you have enough to get yourself by for awhile? Is there anything that you two personally need, or that might get pretty scarce in the coming weeks?

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
 

quote:

---

The more you identify, the more likely you'll help. And I want you to help. Without the generosity of you and others like you, this area of the world will sink even deeper into poverty.

---

Yes.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Farmgirl - I have no idea.

We haven't been to the grocery store since it happened. We had enough food at home already.

Despite me being LDS, we don't have a year's supply of food. It's not possible here. Rice, flour, lentils, and such get bugs in them very easily, even when the bags are sealed. Frequently, there are eggs inside the bag and hatch later. But we do have as much as we reasonably can store, and that tends to be about two or three weeks of food. We already know that we have to go grocery shopping BEFORE we run out - just as a matter of protecting ourselves.

We also have water stored as a matter of course. Water outages occur here frequently enough as a part of normal life that we have enough water for probably five or six days stored. Longer if we don't worry about hygiene.

We have plenty of chocolate thanks to Jeniwren (yay Jeni!).

So far, things seem to be fairly close to business as normal. But we live close to a major urban area that didn't suffer major damage, so we're more likely to remain okay.

It's common here for people to have fruit trees in their yards - mangos, papayas, bananas, limes, and so on. And the country's major industry is agriculture, so we ought to be okay. Fish adn seafood will be scarce for a long time.

But in all of this, we are extremely fortunate. Fahim has a decent job - he works for a US domain hosting company, so he's paid in US dollars, and he earns significantly more than other people here. So even when inflation hits and food prices rise, we'll still be able to afford whatever we need. That cannot be said of millions of others here.

I appreciate your concern. I have no idea at this point. No idea.

How about if I just keep y'all updated?

News: there are still 11,290 people missing in Sri Lanka. I suspect it's pretty safe to assume that most of them are dead.

They were also showing footage of a hotel near Galle, at the southern tip of Sri Lanka. Fahim used to live in Galle, and he's been to this particular hotel they were showing on the news that's submerged almost to the roofs. He's lived in a lot of the areas that were worst hit.

Yala National Park is closed - water reached 2 km inland. The family that was in the car that was swept away that I mentioned in an earlier post were in Yala park. The woman who survived was apparently flung from the car and landed in a tree. My earlier statement that she didn't reach the car was erroneous.

And now there are warnings against child abduction on the news, adding that there will be opportunities for adoption. I had no idea that this would be enough of a problem that they have to publicly say, "Don't steal children." It just never ocurred to me.

And now I'm watching footage of people carrying pale pasty bodies out of the water through wreckage on teh beach.

Bridges are washed out. Some roads are completely gone. The railway lines in the south are destroyed - they ran along the beach. It'll likely be years before they're restored.

I spoke to Richard, the magazine editor, today, and he mentioned that this is not, in fact, the first time this has happened to Sri Lanka. When Krakatoa blew up, the ocean receded, and observers on the shore reported seeing old shipwrecks uncovered. That's what happens when a tsunami comes - the sea recedes before it crashes.

I'll have to find references. After Richard mentioned it, I remembered reading it, too. Richard is now considering writing a book about this - he's also a writer. He wants to compile a book of the experiences people here have gone through. All proceeds going to one charity or another. I think it's a great idea. It could help others understand better. But it's also a longer term project.

I am thankful for the outpouring of love and concern that's happening as a result of this disaster. Many people worldwide are donating a lot of money, and this will help considerably. Many governments are sending enourmous amounts of money and supplies, and that will also help tremendously.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Last night I found this article by National Geographic to be extremely interesting. They also mention that phenomenom about the ocean receding just before the tsunami hits. In fact, they said many beach-goers were lost because they were running out to the newly-uncovered ocean floor, watching the water recede so fast... Kind of like "Oh! Look at all the new pretty shells" -- and had no idea....

Farmgirl

[ December 29, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Farmgirl ]
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
There is a charity I saw on tv called Americares.org.(or .com) Sara? It sends medical supplies, and supposedly, 100 doallars' donation will generate 3000 dollars in medical suplies. I seemed like a good place to donate.

When I think of my two week stay in the hospital, and the amount of medical supplies used to make me better, and how comfortable the nurses made me, it feels like where I want my money to go, even if the level of comfort my money might provide is miniscule in comparison.

I am just so unbelievably sad.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Farmgirl, that reminds me of a story we read when I was a kid about the five Chinese brothers. One brother could suck up the ocean, and the people made him do it so they could hang out on the ocean floor. Then he couldn't hold the water anymore, and all the people drowned. I was haunted by that story for years.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
I remember that story. They try to behead one of the brothers, and burn one, and bake one in a pie. I forget how the last one escapes, though.

I can still remember the pictures from it, including the one of the guy holding the sea in his mouth desperately trying to attract everyone's attention.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
One had long, stretchy legs...

Anyway, CNN has a list of places to donate. here is the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/tsunami.aidsites/index.html
 

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Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
 
You wouldn't mean this, would you?

The Five Chinese Brothers


 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Did Captain Kangaroo read that story? I remember that one too, though I don't remember anything else about it except the boy holding the sea in his mouth.

I'm also trying to find the most effective place to give a donation. So ideas from others are greatly appreciated.

The whole problem of responding to natural disasters, early warning, logistics, infrastructure, and rebuiding civilization is of great interest to me. If we (humanity) could get many times more effective at all these things (and it seems as though it would be possible with study and training) then we could save a lot more people and reestablish stable and safe circumstances more quickly when something bad happens. We need to respond to disasters, but also to learn from them things that we don't forget before the next one.

The Red Cross does community outreach programs to train people in various areas like water safety, fire prevention, good nutrition, hygiene, and around here tornado preparedness. I wonder if a course on how to respond to larger scale disasters would help? Like what to do if people are looting, how to treat water to make it safer to drink, what to do if your plumbing quits working, etc. I suppose it would have to be tailored to the locale, with different information for urban vs. rural people, and coastal dwellers vs. inland, cold vs. warm climate, etc. But it might be worthwhile.

If even one person knows what to do in an emergency, others will follow their lead and a lot of good can result.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I was talking to people here about the receding waters preceding a tidal wave. I know about it in part because of the movies I watch and books I read, but also part of it was high school physics - wave theory. I'm a geek and I remember it. If I'd been on the beach and saw the water receding, I would have started screaming immediately to run for your lives. Because I know that it means big big trouble.

Anton, our district president at church, is a very educated man. He's a medical doctor with all sorts of specializations. He'd never heard that before. Neither had anyone else.

Instead of running, when the people on the beach saw the water recede, they went onto the wet sand to pick up fish and seashells and that sort of thing. And so, when the wave came back, they were ripe for a picking.

Yes, education can make a huge amount of difference. If they had known about receding water, only a fraction would have died.
 

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Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
 
Good point. I had forgotten that myself.

Yikes. *get chills*
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
I listened with great interest to a noon-time news report that very few animals (non-domestic) died in this disaster. They sensed the coming tsunami and fled to higher ground. There are very few animal corpses being found...

(I'm supposing dometicated ones that did not have the freedom to flee were lost, however...)

FG
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
In this case it seems like a major thing we might have done is early warning. If people had known even an hour or two ahead, I'm sure it would have saved a lot of lives.

But how to warn people with no communications infrastructure of impending disasters? I can think of 2 possibilities off the top of my head, neither of which may be practical.

1) Some sort of alert program on the internet. Then those with web access could alert local warning systems in affected areas. Coverage here would be an issue. Would it reach enough people to make a real difference?

2) What if all satellites had some sort of emergency warning beacon light of some kind. Could it possibly be bright enough to be noticeable on the ground? But like if you looked up into the night sky and saw several satellites blinking an emergency code (three flashes then a pause?), maybe it could be a signal to find out what's going on?

Okay, that idea doesn't work if it's cloudy, and probably isn't feasible during the day, since the energy required to flash that brightly might be prohibitive. But satellites are the only thing that covers the whole earth that I can think of.

What else would work?
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Again, with your suggestion, ak, it would still come down to an education of the people.

Just like here in Kansas -- when we have someone new to the state just move in and we are outside in late spring on a muggy day and the sirens go off -- they say, 'why are the sirens going off?" and we have to tell them "that means there is a tornado nearby and we must seek shelter"

So whatever warning system they put in place (which I hear they are now working on) would also require a mass education of the people.

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 

quote:

---

What if all satellites had some sort of emergency warning beacon light of some kind. Could it possibly be bright enough to be noticeable on the ground? But like if you looked up into the night sky and saw several satellites blinking an emergency code (three flashes then a pause?), maybe it could be a signal to find out what's going on?

Okay, that idea doesn't work if it's cloudy, and probably isn't feasible during the day, since the energy required to flash that brightly might be prohibitive. But satellites are the only thing that covers the whole earth that I can think of.

---

Durring the day this would be I'm sad to say, infeasible. The Iriduim system was basically just a series of very, very large mirrors in space. And everyonce in a while they would line up with the sun so as to create a very concentrated flare in the sky, more than visible from the ground. They're bright enough that should it occur durring the day a slight light would be visible, but not enough that you'd look up, and then it's only for a moment, plus durring the day the geometry of the thing is just too difficult. And anything that used it's own power to create the light would be out of fuel in a hurry, and even then only very concentrated beams would be so much as visible, and probably creating something that would make people take notice would be impossible minus large explosions in sapce, and no one is going to launch that into space unless it's on the tip of a missle headed for the US.

I think a better solution might be warning beacons on the beach at a certain distance. Notification could be given out hours in advance, and people could run and tell others in plenty of time, so a massive systems of beacons wouldn't be necessary, though it would probably still be prohibitivley expensive for a third world nation. It would have to a solar powered beacon that could emit loud sounds (more noticable than ligh and cheaper energy-wise). Basically the kind of warning system we have in place here in case tornados or other disasters, only I think that smaller, more frequent beacons would be much more effective. There would be a one time instellation cost, plus the cost of maitance, which would be low if they did use solar power and radio communication.

Hobbes
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Our tornado sirens are tested at 1:00 pm the first Wednesday of every month. So if you move to the state and don't know what it is, the first Wednesday afternoon that you're there you are going to hear very loud sirens going off repeatedly and ask someone what the heck is going on. So unless you manage to move in the second week of the month and there's a tornado right away, everybody knows what the sirens are for.

Something like that at least makes sure people are aware of what is being signaled. Unfortunately, it wouldn't do much good for a generic emergency, since you can't indicate what is going on and what steps should be taken. Sirens in MN during tornado season mean "go to the basement." If going to the basement would be harmful in a particular situation, they can't blow the sirens.

If sirens just meant "Something is going on, get to a radio and turn to the emergency frequency" that could be useful in a wide variety of situations. Something like that could work for third-world countries... where there is reliable electricity to blow the sirens.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Here, when there are going to be scheduled water or power cuts, or dengue fever alerts, or that sort of thing, vans with loudpseakers drive around the neighborhood telling everyone what's going on. We also sometimes have trishaws and guys on bicycles or motorbikes - all with loudspeaker systems - riding around neighborhoods saying stuff.

That actually works very well here, it's feasable, it's relatively inexpensive, can be quick enough to deploy, and it's not specific to any one type of problem.

However. The announcements are generally in Sinhalese only, or Tamil only, depending on the area. So the Burghers and the foreigners would be left clueless. On the other hand, if it's out in public at the beach where this sort of announcement is being made, there will likely be at least one person who can translate - and they do!

This would work. More than that, this would work very well.

The problem, from what I understand, is that no one in the US - who knew that the disaster was coming - had any idea who to contact in our governments. There was no protocol set up. And even if they had, there was no system set up here like a phone tree to contact necessary people. But this can be rectified without a lot of work at our end.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
Yesterday I was thinking about the Five Chinese Brothers. I grew up on that story. I wondered if the story got it's beginnings after and ancient tsunami where the survivors told of receding waters followed by death of all lured out by them.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
I wonder that as well, Beverly.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
I decided to give to the church humanitarian aid fund here. A worldwide network of volunteers (like quidscribis) insure that 100% of all donations go to those in need.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
The church humanitarian people arrive either today or yesterday evening.

As a side note, my counsellor called this morning to say that she can teach the lesson after all. She'd like to teach about charity and helping others. She's a local sister, so this is the best possible solution.

I'm proud of my counsellor. She's taking responsibility for teaching a very difficult lesson on a very difficult Sunday. They will listen to her more than they'll listen to me, which is part of the reason I'm so grateful that she's willing to do this. And I'm still buying a large box of Kleenex for Relief Society!
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I forgot to mention.

There have been a total of 75 aftershocks thus far, all ranging from a 4.4 to 7.3 in magnitude.

Holy crappoli!
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
That is unreal!

Are you feeling the aftershocks in the ground where you are?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Nope. But we didn't feel the initial one, either, so it's not that surprising.

I mention the aftershocks mostly because they're mostly occuring in the Andamans and Nicobar islands, where there are still 25,000 or more people missing or unaccounted for. And they're being potentially wrecked even more than they were initially.

It also means more tsunamis, although much less severe than the originals.

And we're told that the aftershocks are likely to continue for weeks and months.

Yippee.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I asked because I was telling my sister about you being near the tragedy and she was wondering if you could feel the initial quake. I told her I didn't think so.

Those aftershocks are bigger than the average initial earthquake!
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Yup, they are. That's the other reason I mention them.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
New official count is at 91,808.

And still there are tens of thousands missing.

And still the epidemics have not begun.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 

 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
CNN just upped their report of the death toll to 116,000.

FG
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Great.
Indonesia. 79,900 +
Sri Lanka. 24,000 +
India. 10,000 +

16,000 estimated still missing.

INDONESIA. Bodies still lying decomposing on the streets. Many people still living on the streets.

Everything completely flattened in the city at the epicentre of the earthquake, previous population of 50,000. No signs of life.

Region that was home to hundreds of thousands almost completely wiped off the face of the earth.

Too remote to get a broad picture quickly.

Most important priority: clean water.

Focus is on the living. The dead can't be helped anyway.

SRI LANKA. 3000 people crowded into a Buddhist temple, a pile of donated clothing sitting in the center, given to people who have literally nothing left. Many husbands and fathers still missing. Just never came home.

East coast - probably has more dead proportionately than anywhere else in the country. The force of the tsunami bent ceiling fan blades. Land wiped clean. Getting information from the east coast has been extremely difficult. Rubble is everywhere, piles and piles of it.

Many survivors are living in camps - very close quarters, and many have not yet seen doctors.

The president of Sri Lanka has announced that the government will help rebuild their homes, but away from the sea. My question - with what land? This country is crowded. It will be difficult to find land.

Galle. Huge devastation. Thousands of people have lost everything - all their families, all their possessions. Decomposing bodies are still found everywhere, and they're smelling. Looters steal everything they can find.

Buddhist temples are now orphanages. Where else can the children go?
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
When you list the number for Indonesia -- does that include Sumatra? Since I know that was where the brunt of the quake itself was... and I never hear a separate figure for Sumatra..
FG
 

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Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
 

quote:

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Our tornado sirens are tested at 1:00 pm the first Wednesday of every month.

---

Only once a month? Heh. Here where I live, we have a siren mounted on the main water tower that is used to summon the local volunteer firefighters when they are needed. They test it every Monday through Friday at noon - in fact, it's known as the "noon whistle". And God help you if you happen to be driving by the water tower (or happen to be having lunch at Jack in the Box, which is right next to the water tower) at noon. That thing is loud .
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
I've always wondered what would happen if there were a fire at noon in towns that do that.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
It's a different sequence, Dag. If it is noon siren, it is pretty much (around here) once up, hold , then back down.

When there is a real fire, it keeps going and going and going until everyone's at the station getting gear on.

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Yes, that number includes Sumatra. But there are still tens of thousands missing and unaccounted for.
 

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Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 

 

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Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
 
Dag...Farmgirl is absolutely correct. If there is an actual emergency, the siren just keeps on going until everyone has either come in or called in that they are on their way. At noon, it just winds up and then winds down. So, it would only take the concerned parties maybe fifteen seconds to know that it was not just a test.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
More.

Maps of the area are now obsolete as so much land has been swallowed up by the tsunami.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I worry about the people who inhabited islands! All the people that must be stranded and no one can spare the resources to reach them.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Thanks for the info on alarms. Noon-whistles seem rustic to me, mainly because I've really only encountered them in small towns in stories (such as "God Bless You Mr. Rosewater).

The Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, VA used to fire a long gun every night at 5:00 PM. Closest I know about such things.

Wouldn't the constant noise make it difficult to coordinate a response?

Dagonee
 

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Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
 
What's the latest number of total people killed? And where's a good place to keep updated on this story?
 

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Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
 
Well, Dag, the town where I live (near Fresno, CA) is still fairly small as towns go - I think about 18,000 population, although they've been putting in a lot of new houses the past two or three years - and still mostly a farming town.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
126,000 and counting. Some news sources are saying there may be as many as 400,000 dead in Indonesia alone. So the total dead may be up to half a million. But we won't know for sure for quite a while.

You can check out Guardian Unlimited
BBC News
Reuters
CNN

Any of those will do.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
We're just amazed that you still have power, and can keep us updated here (which is a very good thing)

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
We have electricity, we have phones most of the time even (although they've been frequently overloaded over the last few days, so it's been difficult to get through), we have cellular, television shows are still on. Seriously, for the most part, it's business as usual where I am.

Electricity is generated through damns, and as long as we have rain or sufficient water left over from previous rains, we have electricity. It's monsoon season. It's not a problem.

We went grocery shopping today. The store was much much busier than normal - as in, at least twice, probably closer to 3 times as many people in it. We usually go around 4 in the afternoon, and it was packed.

The good news is that there were no shortages, except for the usual ones. By that, I mean that this week, the red onions will be really small and so will the potatoes, but the carrots were extremely fresh, as was the cilantro, which is usually difficult to get. Next week, there might be no bran cereal or oranges. The week after, we'll have really fresh onions, but the bananas will look bruised. It's a rotating thing.

But there was no problem getting enough food. The grocery store was stocked as per usual.

It's also possible that at least some of these people are buying food to donate, whether through an aid agency or by donating directly to homeless people staying at a Buddhist temple, for example. A lot of people have taken it upon themselves to buy food or gather clothing or other household items and donate to whoever. That's been happening here A LOT. Quite a few people I talked to from church have done that, some through our church, others privately.

Honestly, I don't care how they do it. I'm just glad they did it.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Well, so far the American people as individuals and companies have donated more than the American gevernment. It costs a couple of billion dollars a day to be in Iraq, and we have donated 35 million. There is a lot of talk about this on the news. Maybe this is just an initial donation?

We are supposed to feel relieved, though, because Jeb bush is going over with George W. to help, and he knows disasters! (sorry for bitter tone, but I think we could do more, and I hope we do)
 

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Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
I saw this yesterday. I liked it.

America's prosperity and goodwill help other nations

quote:

---

The larger picture Egeland fails to appreciate is that America's wealth and prosperity - partly sustained by low taxes - is a greater bulwark against human suffering than the United Nations ever has been or likely will be. America guarantees global stability by keeping the sea lanes open, by preventing North Korea from invading South Korea and China from seizing Taiwan. We did it by preventing Saddam from keeping Kuwait. We ignored the United Nations and intervened to stop genocide in Yugoslavia, and we have 150,000 troops in Iraq working to create a democracy - while the United Nations is still too scared of terrorists, and too anti-American, to help.

---

quote:

---

The clock starts at $134.5 billion and increases at a rate of $177 million per day, $7.4 million per hour and $122,820 per minute.

---

NPR puts it at a slightly higher $182 million per day.

It's still a lot of money, but it's not billions a day.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Sorry. Was it per month? I should never quote numbers.
 

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Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
I think they'd reach that in 11 days.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
So, when the government donates the hard cash, where does it go? I am NOT saying we don't help enough in crises, I know we are amazing at that. But how does the other help fit in? And is the American Red Cross a separate financial entity, or is it funded by the government?

I also think it is GOOD that the private donations are flodding in, don;t get me wrong. That initial donation of 35 million just seemed pathetic.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
It was oddly quiet here last night.

Usually, at any major events, you can hear firecrackers going off for hours. During Poya days (full moon days - major important to Buddhists), during any holidays of any kind, and quite frequently, for no reason that I can fathom. Sometimes it's just random.

But last night, New Years Eve, there were no firecrackers going off. Not a single one. And for this country, for a major holiday, this is extremely unusual. Just another sign of how sober the entire country is right now.
 

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Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 

quote:

---

We have 150,000 troops in Iraq working to create a democracy - while the United Nations is still too scared of terrorists, and too anti-American, to help

---

quote:

---

And the fact that it does is probably the point being made - that a whole host of humanitarian projects aren't recognized as such.

---

Or perhaps that a whole bunch of things which were never humanitarian projects are claimed as such.

As I said before, this is a bad example unless your preaching to the choir. The conclusions one draws will be based on ones perceptions of the justness of the Iraq war. Since those perceptions vary widely, so will peoples conclusions. As a Lawyer you should no enough about persuasion to know that. If you don't, I hope my opponent hires you if I'm ever brought to court.
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
Rabbit, your comments this evening have seemed very malicious. (forgive me if you didn't mean to come across that way, I know it's hard to interpret the tone of voice behind the text.)

You know a lot and I'm interested in seeing what you have to say, but I think I'd be more willing to read your comments if you would keep the personal jabs out of them.
 

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Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
Sorry Narnia, I had no intention of being malicious.
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
*whispers* I just sent you an email. I'm sorry if I was snippety.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
1.36 billion pledged to help south Asia recover from the aftermath of the earthquake and tsunami.

This is incredible. It's huge. It's wonderful.
 

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Posted by babager (Member # 6700) on :
 
Heres another website...

http://tsunamihelp.blogspot.com/
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 

quote:

---

Or perhaps that a whole bunch of things which were never humanitarian projects are claimed as such.

---

quote:

---

As I said before, this is a bad example unless your preaching to the choir. The conclusions one draws will be based on ones perceptions of the justness of the Iraq war.

---

quote:

---

Since those perceptions vary widely, so will peoples conclusions. As a Lawyer you should no enough about persuasion to know that.

---

quote:

---

If you don't, I hope my opponent hires you if I'm ever brought to court.

---

quote:

---

In Tamil Nadu, India's hardest-hit state, health officials said it was crucial to clean up quickly, particularly in getting the dead buried.

"There is a very high risk of epidemics breaking out in all these places," said Dr. Sathish Amarnath, a microbiologist who heads the infection control department at Manipal Hospital in Bangalore. "Decaying bodies are bacteria factories. The bodies must be quickly disposed of."

---

quote:

---

But Dana Van Alphan of the Pan American Health Organization issued a statement declaring there was no danger of corpses contaminating water or soil because bacteria and viruses cannot survive in dead bodies. The organization said it issued the statement, hoping to avert mass burials of tens of thousands of unidentified victims.

Van Alphan said it was important for survivors to be allowed to identify loved ones and urged authorities in tsunami-stricken countries to avoid burying unidentified corpses in mass graves.

"I think that psychologically, people have to be given the chance to identify their family members," she said. "Whatever disease the person has while still alive poses no threat to public health in a corpse."

The World Health Organization has also said dead bodies are not an immedieate threat to health.

"The health hazard associated with dead bodies is negligible. The collection, disposal, burying and/or cremation of corpses requires important human and material resources which should instead be allocated to those who survived and remain in critical condition," the organization said in a news release after the 1999 earthquake in Turkey.

---

http://www.al.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/110440171729420.xml?birminghamnews?wire

Now I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems to me that burying the dead to avoid them contaminating water sources would be crucial. I understand about wanting to give people a chance to identify and bury bodies, but surely leaving bodies around to rot in the sun is not only a threat to health but a severe psychological blow to the people living nearby - I think I'd want the bodies removed and disposed of.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
We've been seeing the same thing in the news. I don't understand it either. And yes, I also always assumed that dead bodies were bacteria factories.

One person on the news said that the whole reason the announcement was made that the dead bodies were essentially harmless was because they wanted people to focus on rescuing the living when in actuality they were all panicking about burying the dead and ignoring the injured. In other words, lying to save lives.
 

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Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
 
Wow...the first post on this thread is haunting. At that point, they knew for certain that 300 or more people had died in Sri Lanka. And look at the stats now.



It's been a long and depressing week.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 

quote:

---

And he showed great rhetorical deftness in doing so, knowing he couldn't make the entire case in a single article.

---

quote:

---

But Dana Van Alphan of the Pan American Health Organization issued a statement declaring there was no danger of corpses contaminating water or soil because bacteria and viruses cannot survive in dead bodies.

---

quote:

---

Saying X is OK.

Saying ~X is wrong.

Very fair rules you live by there, twinky.

---

See you later.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
yourself.

The original post was appropriate to the thread and the response wasn't? Why on earth is this so?

Dagonee
 

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Posted by reader (Member # 3888) on :
 
It's up to 155,000 now. For a few days, the numbers held fairly steady, and I was hoping they wouldn't go up too much more....

Also, in relation to the U.S. contribution, the military and transport contribution is NOT counted in the 350m pledge.

To quote a CNN article:

quote:

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Powell has said the United States may add to its $350 million pledge, and he told CNN the figure does not cover the total U.S. contribution.

"Our Department of Defense is spending tens of millions of dollars more as we dispatched two carrier groups, a regular big aircraft carrier group and a Marine amphibious group to the region," he said. "And private donations are significant."

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
In Sri Lanka, on the news last night, they confirmed 29,755 dead in this country. There are still 10,000 or so missing. Information out of the north and east where the Tamils are in control is sketchy at best - they have not opened the borders wide enough yet. They may have thousands more dead and just aren't telling us about it.

The way this is going, don't be surprised if it hits 200,000 dead. Before we start counting epidemic victims.

Relief is slow.

In Sri Lanka, the east and north, the Tamil areas, had a lot of land mines. Some areas were cleared, but the tsunami dislodged a lot of them, and so travel in some areas is no longer safe due to that. Added to that, though, are armed people hijacking relief trucks. For what purpose? To sell? For their own people? No idea. So now, there are no volunteers to deliver goods in that area, and it's a heavily hit area.

I have a lot more stuff on my blog.

The whole thing is bloody depressing.
 

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Posted by ReikoDemosthenes (Member # 6218) on :
 
*sighs* yeah...it really is...it must be so much worse, though, being so close to it...
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
<<<<<<Laurie>>>>>>
 

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Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
 
Re: risk of epidemics passed via dead bodies

This risk has been known to be negligible for some time. The bacteria and viruses which cause infectious disease epidemics are propagated in living tissue -- e.g., corpses don't develop tuberculosis or cholera or malaria, for example.

Note that there are bacteria which act to decompose bodies, of course, and there is subsequent likely contamination of water supplies. However, that is not the same as propagating an infectious disease. The issue of potable water supply is a big enough concern in itself, but the risk of epidemics because of decomposing tissue isn't.

Crowded facilities and poor hygiene facilities will increase the likelihood of epidemic spread of disease. Not because of dead bodies, but because of the living conditions of the live ones.

The WHO Pan-American Health Organization has a good summary as well as a general "myths and realities in disaster situations" article. The British Medical Journal also has a good summary article.

[ January 03, 2005, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
 

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Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
 
I don't think having a quarrel to know how much a state give to help South Asia is the good way. USA give 150 millions $ : thanks for South Asia.

Another think is worse. In France (i don't know if that was same in others countries), at TV, a spot during commercials has appeared. He was make by Cellular provider companies to help people to make a gift. You just have to send a SMS to a telephone number and you automatically give 1€ to an association like red cross. The idea will be good, if the cost of the SMS is free.

But The SMS cost is added to the 1€ gift !

And when it's known these companies have 80% benefice on SMS... (SMS cost for user : around 0.50 €, real cost for Providers : 0.04€)

They want to use the catastrophe to make us consumers. Shame on them !

[ January 03, 2005, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Choobak ]
 

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Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
Wow, guys, I'm sorry so many of you hated the article. I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone.

I just wanted to point out that even though the government hadn't pledged much to start with, the American people would contribute far more than the government ever could. It has bills to pay with a limited budget. Their discretionary cash doesn't approach the combined force of the American people.

I'm also a little surprised that everyone thinks Bush should have pledged more to start with. He doesn't pay the bills, Congress does. He pledged what he knew he could get from Congress. After that, the accountants and committees had to take over. He never said we wouldn't send more than that. That was what he knew could be counted on.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
They just announced that President Bush has tapped ex-Presidents Clinton and Bush to lead fundraising efforts for the tsunami relief effort.

quote:

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President Bush on Monday tapped two former presidents -- his father, President George H.W. Bush, and his predecessor, President Clinton -- to lead a nationwide fund-raising campaign to help victims of the Asian tsunamis.

"I ask every American to contribute as they are able to do so," Bush said in the White House's Roosevelt Room, the two former presidents at his side.

The two men are to lead an effort to encourage the American people and American businesses to support, through private contributions, non-governmental and international organizations relief and reconstruction to areas devastated by the tsunamis, Bush said.

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quote:

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Does the fact that this is in a tropical climate make things more succeptible to disease spreading faster?

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Depends on the disease. Some propagate better in wet conditions, some in dry.

The conflict in the reports Belle cited can be attributed in part to imprecise terminology in the articles, IMO. That is, the Pan American Health Organization probably more accurately "issued a statement declaring there was no danger of corpses contaminating water or soil because [the types of] bacteria and viruses [which cause infectious disease epidemics] cannot survive in dead bodies."

It is more difficult to reconcile the direct quotation of Dr. Sathish Amarnath, the microbiologist heading the infection control department at Manipal Hospital in Bangalore: "There is a very high risk of epidemics breaking out in all these places .... Decaying bodies are bacteria factories. The bodies must be quickly disposed of." He may have been misquoted, or he may have misunderstood the question, or he may just have been misinformed (although that would seem odd for an infection control expert for that area). However, the information from the PAHO is what we are standardly taught in medical school, is consistent with the conversations about Doctors Without Borders that I've had with infectious disease experts, and is part of the WHO consensus statement on natural disasters, including those in tropical climates.

[Good for the smart girl with the strong voice! ]

[ January 03, 2005, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Sara,

Thanks for your clear explanation. It helps . . . A LOT! Would you mind if I copied it into my blog while giving you credit? Other people have the same questions.
 

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 
Nathan brought home a fundraiser from his school today for the relief efforts.

Parents and friends are being asked to pledge 1-5 cents per minute while the kids work math problems for 100 minutes.

*smiles sadly*

Nathan attends a school that is Title 1, so even $5.00 is big for a lot of the families there.

He has been following the news on NPR and I think this will help him to feel better about being able to do something concrete -
 

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Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
 
Oh, sure, quidscribis. If you find it useful, by all means.

Shan, that is touching.

[ January 04, 2005, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Wow, Sara, thanks for that information on handling dead bodies in widespread disasters. I absolutely LOVE it about hatrack that you can find out the real story here on almost anything.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Oh, I gave blood today thinking that surely the worldwide supply of blood will be depleted by the aftermath of this disaster. But looking at the Red Cross website turned up nothing to that effect, and when I asked the phlebotomist today she had no idea either.

Do you know the answer to that question, Sara? Will it be helpful for people in the U.S. and Europe to give blood for this disaster? I know that whole blood lasts about a month if kept refrigerated, (longer for plasma or other blood products) and I reasoned that even if blood is not shipped from here halfway around the world directly to south Asia, yet the supply in the area would probably be greatly depleted, requiring blood from a wider area to make it up, and so on in a ripple effect that could propagate around the world. Is that true?

It seems to make sense to me and yet I don't hear calls for blood donation, so I wonder if there's something I'm not seeing? I'm curious to know.
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
I suspect that most of the injuries involved drowning and blunt blows. There was probably an increase in blood needed, but not as much as if there was a lot of shrapnel or falling buildings involved. The buildings that fell were inundated with water, and... well, the injured in those cases wouldn't have had much chance to need blood.

Also, it may be that the cost of transporting it oversease compared the relative benefit is prohibitive. There may very well be many healthy asians who are donating blood now to take care of the need.

Anyway, I can't right now due to my happy condition. I usually would. I donated platelets for quite a while.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Now that you mention it . . . There's been no call for blood on the news or anywhere on television or anything that I've noticed, and we've been watching the news much more so than usual due to it affected our part of the world. There was a call for blood a few months back due to some emergency or other, so I do know that it does occasionally happen.

I suspect that Amka's right in her theory. If I remember to, I'll see about doing a search. Tomorrow, though, not today.

Sara, yes, it will help. I get a lot of emails asking all sorts of questions, and it's come up. Thank you.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

You can find this here. here.

Short version?

quote:

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On December 24th there was a magnitude 8.1 earthquake more than 500 miles southeast of Tasmania near New Zealand, with a subsequent aftershock 6.1 a little later in the morning that same day.

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quote:

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On December 26th, the magnitude 9.0 earthquake struck at the intersection of the Australian tectonic plate and the Indian tectonic plate. This is the devastating tsunami tragedy that we have all heard about in the Indian Ocean.

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quote:

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On December 27th, 20 whales beached themselves 110 miles west of Hobart on the southern island state of Tasmania.

What is interesting about this is that the same place where the whale beachings have been taking place over the last 30 days is the same general area where the 8.1 Australian earthquake took place, and this is the same area where they are doing these seismic tests. Then 2 days after the Australian tectonic plate shifted, the 9.0 earthquake shook the coast of Indonesia.

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quote:

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there is strong evidence that suggests that oil exploration activities have induced earthquakes in the past.

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SICKENED police last night blasted merciless scumbags who stole cash collected for tsunami disaster victims.

One senior cop said: “These people really are plumbing new depths.

“Stealing from charity is bad enough at the best of times but when millions are in need it is beneath contempt.”

Thefts of collection boxes and buckets were revealed in Salisbury, Brighton, South Wales and Bedfordshire.

The robbery spree came amid chilling reports of RAPE, KIDNAP and LOOTING in the disaster zone and at homes of lost European tourists.

Female survivors sheltering at refugee camps in Sri Lanka are said to have been attacked by sexual predators.

And 12-year-old Swedish lad Kristian Walker is thought to have been SNATCHED from a Thai hospital by a paedophile.

The most shocking robbery in Britain was at Salisbury cathedral.

Heartless crooks used a wheelchair to remove a heavy padlocked collection box.

They pushed it 400 yards to a dark street and smashed it open.

Cathedral official Alun Williams said: “This is very sad. At a time when people are showing so much concern and generosity it is particularly disappointing someone could do this.”

Fortunately, the box had recently been emptied and the thieves only bagged a modest haul.

The Sun immediately re-started the fund with a three-figure donation.

Dean of Salisbury the Very Rev June Osborne said: “We’re very appreciative.”

The robberies were revealed as the death toll from the Boxing Day disaster, in which huge waves engulfed coastlines after an Indian Ocean earthquake, reached an estimated 150,000.

Britons have raised £60million for emergency aid programmes. But the nation’s generosity failed to move a thief who lifted a collection bucket from the bar at Brighton’s Trafalgar pub.

The emptied bucket, containing several hundred pounds made up of notes and coins, was found dumped in the ladies’ loo.

Youths made off with a bucket containing £70 donated by fans at Pontypridd rugby club’s game against South Wales rivals Caerphilly.

A thief who took more than £125 collected at Royal Oak in Lidlington, Beds, became so guilt-ridden he returned it — after word spread police and The Sun were trying to find the culprit.

Reports of rape and sex assault in Sri Lanka came from a women’s group.

It said it had been told of “incidents of rape, gang rape, molestation and physical abuse of women and girls in the course of unsupervised rescue operations”.

In Thailand thieves disguised as police and rescuers looted suitcases and hotel safes around the resort of Khao Lak, where up to 3,000 died.

Sweden sent seven cops to the area to probe the mystery disappearance of Kristian Walker.

The boy, injured in the disaster, vanished from his hospital bed. A doctor quoted by a Swedish paper said: “He was taken away by a man.”

In Sweden itself, the government kept the names of the nation’s 2,500 missing tourists secret after thieves broke into victims’ homes.

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Isn't The Sun sort of a British equivalent of our National Enquirer? Or am I mixing it up?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
As an update, the death toll now sits at 228,601 dead, with over 173,000 dead in Indonesia alone. Sri Lanka has death tolls of over 38,000.

In Sri Lanka, suicide is now a problem. People whose children have died or their entire family or village wiped out don't know how to deal with their grief. I haven't heard any firm numbers, unfortunately. I doubt, though, that it's limited itself only to Sri Lanka. I'll try to get more information for you.

If you've pledged to donate, but haven't given your money yet, please do. It's needed.
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
Oh quid, that's so awful. I hadn't even thought of suicide factoring in.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
Yeah, I understand the need is ongoing. Rather than donate another large amount all at once, I am going to keep donating a smaller amount over a long period of time. It should add up to more in the long run. Sort of a payment plan.

I keep thinking about how things must be over there. I am *so* not surprised that Indonesia was devistated far worse than any other country--between the proximity to the epicenter and the extreme poverty. But in the beginning it was Sri Lanka that we heard about on the news most. It guess just took longer for the news to get out. Either that or the media thought we would care more about Sri Lanka than Indonesia. No offense to the Sri Lankans.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
We are donating monthly.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
The difference in the news getting out is that the areas most affected in Indonesia had no survivors left, so no one to pass on the information that so many people died. Entire areas of the country are destroyed. Total annhialation. (Did I even come close to spelling that correctly?)

A friend of mine from church, Michele, is starting up an organization to try to help those who don't know how to deal with the grief. It's callled Befriend Sri Lanka. The general idea is that local volunteers - people who speak the local language, understand the culture, and will not be seen as outsiders - will be trained to listen and befriend the survivors. There isn't time to give them enough training to be therapists, and they won't be therapists. But they will be trained to listen and to refer individuals to professional help when needed. Therapists and other professionals will be flown in from other countries and will train the volunteers. Michele's organization will then provide the money for transportation and lodging to the communities where the help is needed. And hopefully, this will stop most of the suicides and help people learn how to grieve.

I'm the chief writer - writing press releases, brochures, web content, all the rest. I'm also the webmaster, although I'm not designing the actual site - a friend of mine is - but I'm taking care of everything else regarding the website. I'm also the photographer for the organization. I help how I can using the skills I already have.

Tomorrow, Michele and I, along with two other women, are going to some of the villages down the south western coast, visit the headmen, make contacts, assess needs. The other women coming along are Visaka, another friend of ours who is also an actress (she's done lots of teledramas and is in huge demand right now, separate from the tsunami), and Cindy, a woman from Virginia who flew in on Sunday with Volunteers International. All four of us go to the same church (LDS), so that's how we all connected.

We have no content on the website yet. As soon as we do, I'll post the link and info on it.

Also, Michele's daughter, 14 year old Sarah, wrote a song called Missing You that she's dedicated to the survivors of the tsunami. They're working on getting a recording contract to release the song internationally with all her proceeds funding Befriend Sri Lanka. They'll take donations as well. But this is all in the beginning stages. I'll update y'all here when we have things set up.

Tomorrow is going to be a difficult day.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
What a great thing you are doing! It is great that you can be there and be in touch with what is happening, what is needed, and the people who need it.

That makes sense about there being no survivors. And I cannot judge, since, I have not watched enough TV to get a good feel for what the news is portraying, but what little I did see (here in America) in the first few days was mostly about Sri Lanka. I kept thinking, "What about Indonesia? I bet they have been hit so much worse...." It just really made me wonder. I thought maybe we heard so much about Sri Lanka in particular because America has more connections/interest there. But I don't know.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
No, I don't think it's because of the relationship with Sri Lanka that the US has. I don't think the US and Sri Lanka have a great relationship, if you want to know the truth. US bureaucracy rears its ugly head when it comes to aid agencies working towards peace in this country because of the US policy against terrorists. The LTTE is listed as a terrorist organization, and yet they're the ones sitting on the opposite side of the table from the Sri Lankan government negotiating for peace.

In practical terms, this means that any agency for peace that dares to have any information on the LTTE on their websites, in their literature, tries to show the LTTE side of things, tries to negotiate or communicate with the LTTE automatically has funding cut by the US. Generally, when a new bureaucrat takes over. After things are explained to them about how things work here, the funding sometimes comes back, but meanwhile. . .

And Sri Lankans generally speaking don't have much that's good to say about the US even while they all want to live there. They think Americans are spoiled, fat, and lazy. But they want it, too. Go figure.

Point being that I don't see how it can be because of any relationship with the US that caused Sri Lanka to get more coverage than Indonesia. Indonesia is a corrupt country as well, and from what I've been reading, it's supposedly the most corrupt of the lot. I have no idea if that has anything to do with the news not coming out.

Perhaps the government didn't initially want others knowing just how bad it is? And now, it seems that they may perhaps be milking the disaster for all it's worth, getting as much funding as they can. The Sri Lankan government has certainly been accused of that, as have local charitable organizations.

And as a final note, the death toll in Indonesia is now estimated at 220,000, which brings the total dead from the tsunami to over 280,000.

Great. Just great.

And as a side note to the final note. The estimated missing are still at over 40,000, and 23,000 of them are in Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka's death toll could reach 62,000.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Paul Harvey noted on today's morning news, that here we are, - five weeks out from when the tsunami happened -- and they just found another 1,000 bodies.Link

This is just so mind-boggling -- it is going to be a very long recovery.

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Oh my stars.
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
Besides the near-total annihilation of segments of the coastline, including total cutoff of communications links, there was and still is the problem of the Indonesian government's clampdown on the press in Aceh due to the rebellion. You can't report what's happening when you don't have your reporters and/or news stringers (ie independent reporters) in the region. And you can't report what happened when censors still severely limit access and reportage.

There is the same lack of news from the TamilTiger-controlled area of SriLanka, and from the Indian-controlled Andaman&Nicobar islands.

The latter is (mostly) for humanitarian reasons:
The greatest threat isn't the after-effects of the tsunami itself -- apparently tribal lore gave the natives greater survival knowlege inre what to do in the event of tsunamis than that held by recent (less than 600years residence) immigrants -- but rather diseases carried by well-meaning outsiders to which the natives have no immune resistance.
Besides, the natives don't want us there, having already learned the hard way that contact with the outside world has negative effects on their health and cultures.

The TamilTigers don't allow a free press to operate in their region even in the best of times.
And while the Acehan rebels would like to have the world's eye on their problems, the Indonesian military does not.

[ February 01, 2005, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
With the Tamil Tigers, it's also complicated by reports that their leader is dead, along with 500 of his top aids, all killed in the tsunami. Independent verification of this has not yet been allowed.

The question is this:

Did they lie about their deaths so that Velupillai can secretly plan and institute another attack?

Or do they not want to admit their leaders are dead because it could mean they lose power against the Sri Lankan government?

What I do find interesting, and also very typical of this country, is that the Tamils limit access to their part of the country, including relief workers and supplies, but at the same time, they continue to complain about the lack of relief workers and supplies. They just don't get it. At all.

The government here is slow. Not much relief work is getting done on a large scale. The government doesn't approve relief supplies coming into the country quickly, nor are they quick to approve of or provide information regarding needed relief work. It's the smaller, cottage industry type of relief efforts that have sprung up all over the island that are doing the majority of the work.

There's a central database - run by the government - for relief organizations, but the local organizations are scared to register on it because they fear that their organizations will receive too much scrutiny and will perhaps be required to give kickbacks to government employees. It also doesn't help that they don't actually advertise the fact that they have such a database.

There's also a central database for volunteers, not accessible over the internet, so you can register yourself as a volunteer. We're trying to tap into this if can to get more volunteers for our project. We have no idea how extensive it is.

I'll post a link and some more info about it as soon as we have our website up. Hopefully, that'll be within the next 24 hours.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
I appreciate these sad updates, Quidscribis. The news has(no surprise) pretty much droped the story.
 

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