That's what she said. I overheard her telling my mother. The exact conversation:
Grandmother: "How was it?" (asking about the procedures she underwent in his office)
12 year old daughter: "It hurt a bit when he gave me the shot, but other than that it was fine."
Grandmother: "Is he nice?"
Daughter: "Yes, and Nana he is HOT!"
I am so not ready for her to be this old. *shakes head*
Then again, I cannot fault her taste - Dr. K is indeed very, very hot.
And I guess when you're getting ingrown toenails cut out, it helps to have something more pleasant to do, like ogling the podiatrist.
*sigh* When did my babies turn into kids turn into pre-teens?
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Belle, that is so funny. Our podiatrist looks just like Keanu Reeves. He looks so much like him that my mother gasps every time we see him after a long period of NOT seeing him. It's uncanny.
My sister and I are feet hypochondriacs because of this. "Oh dear, there's a problem with your ankle...that's close to your foot...it looks like we need to go to the podiatrist!!!" Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Keanu Reeves as a doctor -- yep that works. At least it worked in "Something's Gotta Give" -- he is so hot.
FG
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
*laughs* Belle, that is great. And I know what you mean. I'm so glad that boys mature slower. Christian thinks the whole boy-girl thing is dumb.
And I agree with you...I had ingrown toenail surgery twice when I was 16 or 17 and it would have been much more pleasant if my podiatrist had been pleasant on the eyes. It was an experience that had little to lend itself to.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Narnia - Here in Portland or in Beaverton?
Do you have digits? Posted by Slim Shady (Member # 3372) on :
Once had a dental hygenist I thought was hot. Did NOT go to the dentist more to see her, though.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
A bit more extreme, but I keep thinking of the Saturday Night Live sketch, "Mel Gibson, Dream Gynecologist" and the lines and lines of women in his waiting room...
Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
Gross Nothing would make me happy to get a pelvic.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I agree, TSH.
Belle, be happy that her crushes are unattainable for now! Encourage crushes on movie and rock stars, etc.
Really creepy story, though. When I was in sixth grade I was madly in love with my science teachr for the whole year. Two years later, my grandmother told me tat he ran away to Canada with one of my friends, who was a year younger. (she was fourteen at the time. he was in his late twenties) He had coached her in speed skating.
A few months ago I watched a show, 60 Minutes or something, about coaches who sexually abuse their female athletes. hey pick one and it is called "grooming." Ew. Ver disturbing.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Yuck yuck yuck.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"Grooming children They may spend a lot of time building the relationship before the abuse begins. This often results in the child trusting and becoming dependent on them. This is called grooming. The abuser may seem to be a safe and reassuring figure. He may also convince himself that he is doing no harm to children."
I guess this is not just for coaches, but would be what happened with religious leaders, teachers, etc.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Oh he is most definitely unattainable - has a very sweet wife and the two prettiest little girls ever.
We actually have a connection to him, besides the toes in the family - he is the brother of a family friend. Our friend is one of the prettiest people I know, and Natalie said "Mom, everybody in that family is gorgeous!"
I don't know how much of the initial crush still remains, after we went back for a second visit. He did surgery on two nails the first visit, then another one flared up. When we went back in Natalie "forgot" to put on socks and was wearing boots with a heel on them. He got on to her. Told her she wouldn't be dancing on those toes if she didn't take care of them, and shoving an infected toe into high heeled boots without socks did not equal taking care of them.
He's really cool though. He let Emily, my seven year old that loves medicine and watches Dr. G, Medical Examiner religiously watch the procedure. Then he held up the part of the nail he removed and was showing her which parts were in the skin and which were out. "See this bloody line, that's where her skin was, so all this part of the nail was growing into her toe" Emily's saying "This is awesome!" and Natalie is saying "Gross! That's my toe you're talking about."
Fun day at the podiatrist. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Ha ha.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Two years later, my grandmother told me tat he ran away to Canada with one of my friends, who was a year younger.
But it isn't any more legal here than it is in the US Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
That is not what I was implying, Twinky! Heavens, I'm sorry!
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I was more surprised that running away to Canada would make any sense to this guy. I didn't think you meant that it was legal here.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
On topic:
My dad's oncologist is attractive... I'm kind of surprised that I noticed, it's not exactly on my mind when we visit her, but it's true. She's also married with two small children though. But she's really nice. I like her. Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Oh, I had a total babe for a dr. once. He was my OB/GYN *cringe*. He was actually so attractive and close to my age that it was really strange during our first meeting. He turned out to be a wonderful doc though - very concerned about privacy (which really matters during exams) and just an all-around nice guy.
space opera
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
quote: I'm so glad that boys mature slower.
By the time I was 12, I thought my chiropractor was hot. Of course, I guess that's different.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
<revealing my own little form of sexism>
I do not understand going to male OB/GYNs. I have had a pelvic exam done by a man exactly once, when it was in an emergency room and I did not have a choice. I have two main reasons for this, and I happily admit that neither of them are valid so I won't even bother going into them here.
</sexism>
Edit: I should have said, neither of them are objective, or something like that. Obviously, since they are my reasons, they are perfectly valid for me.
[ December 27, 2004, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
It's funny, ElJay, because I wonder how men feel about doctors going up their butt. Would they prefr a man or a woman, or would it just not matter?
After having two babies, and no having been in the hospital for three weeks, I really could care less who goes where. Just get it over with and let me go back to sleep!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
ElJay, I agree with you. Although I have had pelvic exams done by male ob's -- when my ob was away, when I was in labor and my ob had not yet arrived -- it's certainly not my preference.
And I can understand women who have no particular preference whether their ob/gyn is male or female. But some women prefer a male ob/gyn. That I do not comprehend. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Belle: and omg, I can't believe she's that old now. *dies*
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:It's funny, ElJay, because I wonder how men feel about doctors going up their butt. Would they prefr a man or a woman, or would it just not matter?
You know, I never even thought about that until you mentioned it. I'm not sure, but I think I *might* prefer a male doctor.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
rivka: totally.
And, because I seem to be all about the TMI today:
My insides are all in the wrong place, and apparently cannot be completely examed through a normal manual pelvic exam... you know, the part where they poke around and say "That ovary feels fine... Let's check the other one..." So every time I have a pelvic exam it involves a finger up the butt, to use Liz's phrase, as well, so they can palpatate my girlie organs from both sides.
I would like to point out, for the record, than in general women have smaller fingers.
[ December 27, 2004, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And ob/gyn's, like pianists, ought to have long fingers.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
:GIGGLE:
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*falls over laughing*
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Hm. In my case the fingers wouldn't make any difference, since for kind of exam I'm thinking of they actually use a camera on a scope. So it really comes down to which gender I'm more comfortable with in that sort of medical context. I'm not sure why I have this vague feeling that I'd rather be examined by a male when it comes to this particular area. It might not even be accurate. But (TMI WARNING) I'm likely to find out over the course of the next month or so, anyway.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
With the camera sort of exam, I believe they give you enough happy-drugs that it won't matter one way or another, while it's going on.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
That's a relief. But I'll have to have the other kind first, I think.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
They need to come up with a better way of checking prostates in the next decade or so.
They just NEED to.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Eh, given what women have to go through with the ob/gyn, it's only fair. I don't imagine it's nearly as unpleasant for us as it is for them.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I don't know . . . I'm not sure how to begin to compare.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
*raises hand*
For the manual exam part, the finger up the butt is worse than the finger in the vagina. But the putting-the-speculum-in-and-cranking-you-open part is worse than either.
The other thing you need to consider, is that men don't start having prostate exams until they're... how old? Mid-30s for a baseline, unless there's reason to do one earlier, and then yearly starting somewhere in the 40s? Whereas women start getting pelvics when they're 18 and/or become sexually active, and for the most part then have them yearly for the rest of their lives. So I think we get it just on the "frequency of having strangers poking in your privates" grounds.
Um, sorry about your thread, Belle.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
It isn't a good sign when your ob/gyn admits that she hates getting pelvics and has avoided hers for five years.
o_O
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Well, at least she has a crush on the foot doctor. (meant for ElJay)
Mack, that just isn't something your doctor should say.
[ December 27, 2004, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:But the putting-the-speculum-in-and-cranking-you-open part is worse than either.
That's the part I was thinking of when I said I figured it sucked more for females than for males.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
At least there have been advances in equipment... my clinic uses these nifty plastic speculums that 1) Don't get cold 2) Have all smooth edges and 3) Plug into a light that then shines throughout their body so the doctor can see better and get it over with faster. As far as I'm concerned, they make a huge difference in comfort. Women of Hatrack, demand them of your doctors!
[ December 28, 2004, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I bet the metal ones were designed by men and the plastic ones were designed by women.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I designed the plastic one.
So there!
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I think she was trying to make me comfortable.
At one point, the nurse said, "Here, lay back on this pillow, it'll make you more comfortable."
My reply? "MORE comfortable?! That indicates that this is comfortable in the FIRST place."
I'm glad she had a sense of humor. Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Then thank you, Megachirops.
Bedtime for me, so I guess I'm done TMIing for today. We'll see if I can practice more restraint tomorrow.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I didn't find the pelvic exam very uncomfortable. After all of the stories I'd heard I was expecting something horrible, but the most uncomfortable part was the coldness of the metal. It helped a lot that I couldn't see what was going on, though.
I've never had anything cranked open, when does that happen? Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
When you get your oil changed.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm with Icarus in hoping that they come up with a better method before I'm old enough to need regular prostate exams. If they still have to go in manaully, though, I don't have much preference one way or the other in terms of gender.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Just for the record I think her podiatrist is hot too.
Ohh no wait, when I said "her podiatrist", I actually meant "my Annie".
Hobbes Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Now, where's that puking smiley again? Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Speaking of which, I'm overdue for my pelvic. And I'm one of those who will NOT be examined by a male doctor if it can be at all helped. I've never been examined by a male and cannot imagine it being at all pleasant. I don't like being examined at all anyway, but by a male? It gives me major panic attacks. Yeesh!
So. To find a competent ob-gyn in a third world country who's also female? Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Ooooooh, good luck with that.
My doctor, interestingly enough, is from your part of the world. I'm not going to send her back for you.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I'm one of those who don't mind if the doctor is male or female -- doesn't bother me in the least...
HOWEVER -- I did have a very uncomfortable time with it this year -- not because my doctor is male, but because he is an old family friend and someone we have attended church with all my life!
See-- I picked him years ago as our family primary care physician because the kids know him well enough to be comfortable around him, and we knew him from church, and he has a small practice, etc.
And prior to this, if I ever needed a "female exam" I would schedule it with his female P.A. (assistant) or with my regular OB-GYN, which was a whole different person in a whole different office - and had been my OB-GYN for quite some time.
But this year my OB-GYN found some abnormalities that resulted in my needing a uterine biopsy. No problem, I schedule it. Then, only to be told by my insurance company that they would NOT pay for it being done by the OB-GYN -- that it could be performed by my primary care, and since it could be done there, that would be the only way I could have insurance pay for it!! I almost freaked. But I finally did go in, and have this family friend/fellow church-member doctor of mine do my biopsy. But it was the first time I really felt embarrased about the whole process. He handled it very non-pulsed, but it has made me feel embarrased when I see him, none-the-less.
Farmgirl
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
When my wife was 19 or 20 she went to see her gynecologist for a routine exam. Just as he was starting the exam, he said "So, you like kinky stuff?", which, as you might imagine, completely freaked her out. To make matters worse, when he said this his nurse turned around and just walked out of the exam room.
She kind of froze and let him do the exam, but afterward sent him a letter about it, telling him just how horrified she'd been by the comment, and informing him that she would be switching doctors. He left a number of messages on her answering machine apologizing over the next few weeks. One would have been okay, but he left enough of them that it was a bit creepy in and of itself.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Ewwwwwwww.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh. My. Gosh.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah. She wasn't scarred by it or anything, but the whole thing definitely freaked her out at the time.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Ew. Ew. Ew. Ew. Ew.
At 19 or 20, I may have just froze and done nothing. Now, I would be calling him on it and out of there so fast you wouldn't believe it.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah, so would she.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I have had both a female and a male perform pelvic exams. I like the male doctor better (he also happens to be my GP), but I think that's more about the doctor's personalities than their genders. My female gyno was dismissive of my concerns and questions, so I saw her as little as possible. When I went in earlier this month for my yearly exam I was making jokes with my doctor and nurse. Since they use the plastic speculum, my biggest discomfort is the fear that I'm going to fall off the table, though the bottle brush isn't my favorite thing in the world. Honestly, I'd thought that pelvic exams would be a much bigger deal than they turned out to be. It's not that I like them or anything, but they're not the horrific experience some people make them seem to be.
And Noemen - EWWWWWWWWW!
[ December 28, 2004, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Oh doctor... Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Technique is everything with the pelvic. I'm serious, not making an innuendo. It can be done horribly or painlessly, depending on who does it and how tense the person is who undergoes it.
tense muscles = more painful (so trust and joking is good)
downward pressure = good (you could hang a ten-pound weight off the speculum, and it wouldn't hurt)
upward pressure = bad (the urethra ia exquisitely sensitive to pressure, as anyone who's passed a kidney stone can attest)
accidentally clamping the cervix as you close the speculum = bad (very bad)
[ December 28, 2004, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It's that way with many things medical, I've found. I've had vaccinations that were incredibly painful, and also had those same vaccines administered when I wasn't even aware that the needle had gone into my arm, let alone that the drug had been administered.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Yeah. Which makes learning how to do things a real ethical quandry for students and residents -- at least it is if you care for your patients.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
quote: Then, only to be told by my insurance company that they would NOT pay for it being done by the OB-GYN -- that it could be performed by my primary care, and since it could be done there, that would be the only way I could have insurance pay for it!!
That sucks. I think you have a real reason to file a complaint or something. When you're going to have people rooting around in your private parts, you deserve the right to choose who it's going to be.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Um, why would the insurance company pay for you to have the initial exam done by the OB/GYN but make you go to the primary care guy for the follow-up? That's dumb.
<offtopic even further> I've had cervical biopsies done twice now. Both times, she was all concerned she was hurting me when she took the sample, and really, it just kinda tickled. But I'm pretty ticklish. And my primary care person recommended before I went in the first time that I take 4 advil about an hour beforehand, and said it wouldn't bother me a bit if I did so. She was right, but I felt kinda funny giggling when they were cutting out little bits of me. :/
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I nominate "Hobbes " as our unofficial symbol to represent the puking smiley.
[ December 28, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
MPH wins. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"I wasn't even aware that the needle had gone into my arm"
After three weeks in the hospital, getting poked with needles four or five times a day, I told them to just leave off with the "it's just a little pinch" bullshit. It was particuoarly annoying when they would awaken me at 5 AM.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
People with sharp objects shouldn't lie. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Belle, I think you're lucky that Natalie is so innocent - you should hear some of the things that my 9- and 10-year-olds at the Y used to say.
I also think it's super cool that Emily is so into medicine.
I've been very lucky with ob/gyns. I've had a lot of pelvics (comes with the territory in fertility treatments). The best, by far, is my current fertility doctor, Dr. Slackman. Feather-light best describes his touch and I am profoundly grateful for that. The first time I met him, I was a bit disconcerted by his kind of soft handshake, but I changed my tune after the exam.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*puts away sword*
And with that creepy doctor, why the hell would the nurse LEAVE?! That is NOT COOL at all.
*twitch*
Speaking of sharp things, I finally got my ears pierced last night. Aside from the initial pinch of them going in, they haven't hurt at all (unless I catch them on my shirt when changing). I keep forgetting they're THERE.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
If I was less of a man I would be sitting in a corner sulking right now, MPH, but instead, I challenge thee to a duel!
Ha!
Hobbes Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"Aside from the initial pinch"
Not again!
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I know it's sexist of me, but I can't go to female ob/gyn's. It's not something that I have against female doctors in general, I 've been to a female primary care and loved her, my kids see female pediatricians, it's just the ob/gyn.
I think it's personal experience that drives that, though. I had my first pelvic at 14. I was a terrified kid. I was having major problems with my cycles and my mom having fought endometriosis and adenomyosis wanted me checked out.
I was so scared I started crying the moment the doctor walked in the room. He was the most gentle, caring, wonderful doctor ever. He just sat and talked to me until I was calmer, introduced his nurse to me, told me she would not leave my side, and the nurse even told me to feel free to squeeze her hand if I got nervous. He explained everything he was going to do and was very careful - I had no pain, just the general "ugh" factor because it's not a comfortable thing to go through.
When I was older, I again sought out a male ob/gyn when my endometriosis was acting up. Then, after I got married, I found one to get birth control pills and looked for a male again. I even turned down practices that had females, in case they would be on call.
Yes, I know that's crazy and ridiculous and sexist - I have no justification except my own preferences.
Then - my doctor refers me to a fertility clinic and they only have two doctors and both are female. I didn't think much of it, figuring we'd be talking about what drugs to put me on, because they would have my records from my ob, with all his notes and ultrasound pictures and laparoscopy reports.
Well, to make a long story short, she did a pelvic that first day in the office. I think what must have happened is what Sara described as clamping the speculum on the cervix - because it was very sharply painful and I spotted blood for three days afterward.
I cancelled all remaining appointments with that clinic and went to a different doctor (my beloved doctor had stopped the ob portion of his practice at the time in order to spend more time with his girls - thank God he came back to it before I got pregnant with the twins) who looked at my records and said "We need to try you on clomid."
That was the doctor that helped me get Emily.
So, I have no logical reason to dislike the idea of being treated by a female ob/gyn, but the mere thought of seeing one makes me nervous.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I know, and I didn't believe it, but it was TRUE. I have Very Small Ears (I think they must've stopped growing when I was four or something) and she has nearly zero room for error.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Belle, I understand the personal preference. For my psychologist and psychiatrist, I prefer males. No idea why, but every female person in psych has been a poor practitioner. The two docs I have now are fantastic, and if one of them retires, then I'd look for another male. Personal experience plays a huge role, I think, in what we prefer in a doc.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
*laughs*
I couldn't imagine seeing a therapist that wasn't female!
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I've never seen a therapist that wasn't male.
EDIT though, come to think of it, I've twice had psych evaluations performed by females--once to be a Big Brother and once to adopt. The first one made me slightly uncomfortable, but I don't know that gender played a role.
[ December 28, 2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Megachirops ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Interesting.
Come to think of it, I don't guess it would make that much difference. When I was counselled by my pastor, before I went to see the social worker that I see now, it didn't matter and he was male.
So I guess I don't have a preference - it's just that T knows so much about me, I've been seeing her for two years now, and I can't imagine seeing anyone else.
My psychiatrist is female too, but we don't talk about anything except how the meds are working.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I've noticed that both my psych docs share my sense of humor. And my psychiatrist...he's basically textbook ADHD. He'd called me from his home phone to check on a sleep med for me.
He said, "I can call it in from here."
Me. "Okay, got a pen and paper?"
Him. "It's okay, I'll remember."
Me. "Are you SURE?"
Him. "Hey, I've got a GREAT mind."
Me. "I KNOW you have a great MIND. I was talking about your memory."
Him. "Hold on. Let me get a pen."
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Technique is very important in doing pelvics painlessly, as Sara said. What really upsets me, looking back, was how little time they spent teaching that stuff in medical school. I had to learn it on my own, with practice. On real patients. In residency I couldn't even get a nurse to stay in the room with me, much less get any help or feedback from a doctor.
My own pelvic exams were always done by a male doctor, and every exam seemed worse than the one before. I think it'll be awhile before I allow_anyone_to examine me again.
Um, I'm a PCP, and I don't do biopsies. Most of the other internists that I know don't either. I don't understand that insurance company at all.
Oh, and this thread makes me really grateful I'm not that attractive.
[ December 28, 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Oh, and this thread makes me really grateful I'm not that attractive.
Why?
Mack, about the nurse, I know! Seriously, what could she have been thinking? To me, her leaving would have been more of a danger sign than the doctor's words.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
That's EXACTLY what I thought, like the doc's words were some sort of signal for the nurse to leave for him to carry out a creepy plan.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
(Ralphie, I think he might be in Portland...I'll get you some digits. )
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: I would like to point out, for the record, than in general women have smaller fingers.
quote: And ob/gyn's, like pianists, ought to have long fingers.
quote: I think he might be in Portland...I'll get you some digits.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
All of my therapists were female. I would never be comfortable discussing some of those nasty things with a male. Ew!
I know I'm sexist. I admit it. I have no problem with that. It's also based on experience. Bad ones with men. We'll leave it at that.
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
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Nothing would make me happy to get a pelvic.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
and omg, I can't believe she's that old now. *dies*
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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