What do you all think?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
They don't have any cookies.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
The troop I was in sold Christmas trees! Do you guys think it is a worthwhile program?
Posted by Beanny (Member # 7109) on :
The Americn Scouts (both girls and boys) encourage involvement in society and many other important values, yet there is not much room for leadership. Almost everything is run by adults.
-Beanny
Posted by CookieMonster (Member # 7238) on :
I think it is a very beneficial program....it didn't help my spelling any though!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
thumbs up
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
I was a Brownie. I was jealous of the boys.
They got to learn cool knots and how to light fires with twigs.
We played the 'Laying the Table' game and were forced to dance round a giant papier-mâché toadstool.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Katharina works for the Boy Scouts.
I'm morally opposed to them.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
I'm currently working on my Eagle project and i agree, alot of troops are run by adults, Mine however prides it's self on the lack of adult participation... they don't tell us what to do... as long as the coffee is made on time...
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Looking back, Boy Scouts added quite a bit of structure to my life. Too bad both my cool scout-masters moved away and I lost interest.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I quit when I became an actual Boy Scout, but I had a lot of fun in Wheblos (I probably spelled that wrong, I haven't done it in years). It stopped being fun when my pack merged with another one and all the new kids were mean, so, I left.
I wish I hadn't now, kind of like I wish I hadn't quit soccer when I was nine, but oh well, now I know not to quit things too soon. So I still learned a lesson.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I think they're a myth. Face it folks, the evidence is clear--the Boy Scouts simply don't exist. Case closed.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
Thats right, we really don't exsist and we work for the government... we dig trenches around area 51 for service hours...
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Noemon, are you trying to say the Little-Hitler's are better than the Boy-Scouts?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Stryker, I think boyscouts are like the tooth fairy.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I really, really enjoyed my time as a Boy Scout, and think it was good for me (not only because I can now live in the wild for up to three days before succumbing to a lack of Internet.) That said, I'd like 'em a lot better if they'd stop conflating the word "moral" with the word "religious."
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
ok, now my girl friend and boyscouts are like the tooth fairy...
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Tom, the ARE a religious-based program for boys. Not making the religious part of it important would defeat the stated purpose of the Boy Scouts.
Not that I found religion to be a major part of my Boy Scout experiences, but they were always present, even on the oath.
I really liked it, and the only reason I didn't make Eagle Scout was my troop leader was a weenie, so I quit as I got to Life, the step before Eagle. Some of my best and most memorable experiences as a child came from scouting.
Kwea
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I hated and loathed Girl Scouts. We got badges in things like "gluing nuts together to make reindeer" and "listening to some lady talk about how we were going to be wonderful wives someday" while the boys got to actually learn things. I wouldn't have minded learning not outdoorsy things like cooking and sewing. I actually had the handbook, and every week I'd suggest we do something cool, and every week I'd get completely shut down. I think I felt about as important as a peice of dust at that point in my life. Interesting.
Ni!
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
I still know lots of rope knots, and if I needed them I could use them too. My favorite came was going to Silver Mocassin, where we were grouped randomly, and didn't have any leaders present.
I learned quite a bit about life, people, and how things work. It actually prepared me to live without leadership in my life (Being my father passed right before that happend, and I was still a mess sometimes even at camp, although no one ever saw it.)
Because of that experience, I know I can use a compass, I know many more things about myself, that I wouldn't be able to know otherwise. For this I am very happy I was a scout, although I never became an Eagle Scout, so that is something of a sore spot.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I was in Girl Scouts for about four years. For two of them (my last Brownie and first Junior years, I believe), I was in a troop with seven other girls. Three of us were named Carrie and none of us spelled our names the same way (me [the correct way], 'Kari,' and 'Keri'). It was weird.
I did do several of the non-Home-Ec.-y badges on my own, like the math one and the camping one.
Posted by HollowEarth (Member # 2586) on :
The Boy Scouts suffer from one main problem in my book. No one wants to turn away a volunteer.
Beyond that, its a good program. I enjoyed it quite a bit.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I wish, in retrospect, that I had done scouting. I think I would have really enjoyed it, and gotten a lot out of it.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
We learned knots in girl scouts. Although not as many as I learned doing theatre stuff. I do remember, though, in third grade, a conversation that went something like this:
Leader: Right over left, left over right,– the first time this end is on top, the second time the other end goes on top.
dkw: Actually, it’s the same end on top both times.
Leader: No it’s not. The first time it’s the right end, the second time it’s the left end.
dkw: Yes, but the ends have switched places, so it’s really the same end.
Leader: No, it’s right over left, left over right.
dkw: I know that, but if I put a piece of tape on one end, it would be the end with the piece of tape both times.
Leader: It’s opposite ends. Go sit down.
[ January 08, 2005, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Wow. I had that exact same conversation, I think. Square knot, right?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Yep.
Posted by TheDisgruntledPostman (Member # 7200) on :
For all of those people who are negative towards the BoyScouts, well thats your opinion and mabye something happend to you or along the line of that. But i am a 1st class scout and i believe that it helps children, teens, a thing to do and learn. Now adays people dont learn the things that the scouts teach. Try it out, but i do know that some troops suck, but my troop kicks ass.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I wonder if you'd have that same opinion if you were gay.
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
Wow. I think a lot of you were in the wrong girl scout troops. The troop I was in (same girls and leaders from 1st through 9th grade) went camping multiple times every year. And although we didn't go primitive, we never had running water or electricity on any trip. I learned how to tie knots, I learned how to light a fire, I even learned the basics of tracking (not that I remember any of this anymore). Of course we also did some girly things but it was a nice mix that kept us happy.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
That is sorta like saying " I know you are Jewish, but I wonder how good you would feel about that in a Roman Catholic Mass..."
Groups have the right to determine what their charters are, and what membership qualities they want peopel to have.
I never learned anything bad about other peole from scouting, just that there was a standard of behavior expected from me that my parents agreed with, and that helped me learn valuable skills as a child.
I don't know if their stance on homosexuality is something I agree with, but I DO resect their right to make and uphold their own rules considering they are a private orginization.
Kwea
[ January 09, 2005, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
My son is a Cub Scout, and this is my first real experience with scouting. My brother was a Cub Scout for about two months, and I was a Brownie for about the same period of time. It was boring.
*However*, I think the reason that my brother and I didn't do well in the Scouting experience was because we didn't have committed adult leaderes. That's what's going to make the difference (in any volunteer-run organization, IMO).
I have some concerns about the Scout's stance on homosexuality, too, and I really didn't want to get my son involved in a faith-based organization, either (I know, I know, the Scouts don't study the Bible or anything, but still...old liberal habits die hard), but I liked the stress on personal responsibility and character development. So I deal with it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
My parents always made sure that I knew what other peole felt like. They made sure they stressed compassion for everyone, not just those who were like me.
There are ways, as you said, of dealing with things that they are taught outside of the home, and none of the people I was in Scouting with ever even mentioned the homosexuality issues, or allowed any sort of hate-mongering towards anyone.
Kwea
Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
I was always sort of mystified that the LDS church was so into the boy scouts but wouldn't touch the girl scouts. The have a program for girls but it is entirely church based rather than allied with scouting. We did go camping every summer and I learned knotting and survival skills. I hope I get to be involved in that when my kids are older.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
Oh, Kwea, I didn't mean to imply that the Scouts individually (or even at den or pack level) would teach my son intolerance or anything like that. I'm sorry if I phrased things poorly.
I just *personally* have a problem with the *organization's* stance on homosexuality. And the whole "God" thing is totally my own danged problem.
The Scouts have done well for us so far, especially since Christopher is an only child. The Tiger Cubs are helping him learn teamwork and etc. It's good for him. It's giving *me* a heart attack (because it's nerve-wracking for me to be around large groups of children, and I'm the one who ends up going to the meetings all of the time), but it's good for *him*.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
As far as I know the only reason the Boy Scouts had a public opinion on it at all is that they were sued, so they had to take a very public stand.
I am glad that Scouting hs done well by you, but I think that kids are a lot more likely to learn negitive attitudes toward others on an individual basis (from idiots IN scouting, not from scouting itself) than as a policy from Scouting itself.
If you are polish, you don't expect to see a lot of Russians down at the private Polish-American club, do you?
Kwea
Posted by HollowEarth (Member # 2586) on :
Hey here's a good idea, we should just abolish the boy scouts, because their stance on one topic is offensive to some.
When I was employed by the boy scouts, our policy on that court ruling was to not discuss it, that this court ruling was completely irrelevent to policy and function. (As an interesting aside, 3 of my fellow employees were gay, at least 2 openly outside of scouting.)
Its not like the boy scouts haven't lost anything because of this ruling. Police stations are almost universally not allowed to be charter organizations (I mention police specifically because shortly after the ruling in question all troops or post charter by the Chicago police were closed, which then kicked off the large withdrawl of charter organization). This ruling was the final blow to the explorer program (coed, 14-21, career or outdoor oriented).
No matter what you personally choice to believe, the organizational policy is one of tolerence.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
***raventh1 goes up to the club house, and tacks a no girls allowed sign.
You try and shut me down.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
Jexx, I think that you are worried about 2 rather minor issues in Boy Scouts.
I live in the council that the moron sued from. He was not allowed to start a new scout troop for many reason, homosexuality was only one of them. Homosexuality on it's own is usually ignored, I mean generally speaking The scouts practice a don't ask don't tell kind of thing with the adult leaders, and Youth can be as flamboyant about their sexuality as they want (this is because until they are 18, they are considered to just be "exploring" their sexuality).
As far as The God thing goes, It is kept very vague what BSA believes about God. When you take your oath, your swearing "do your duty to god". Your not swearing to do your duty to any pacific god, your swearing to do your duty to your god, whom may be completely different from the god that the boy next to you is swearing to serve.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
quote:Your not swearing to do your duty to any pacific god
So, we're talking about Old Testament, fire and brimstone God then? Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: I was always sort of mystified that the LDS church was so into the boy scouts but wouldn't touch the girl scouts. The have a program for girls but it is entirely church based rather than allied with scouting. We did go camping every summer and I learned knotting and survival skills. I hope I get to be involved in that when my kids are older.
Me too. The boys always did fun stuff like canoeing and 3-day horsebackriding treks throughout the year, and the girls had 3-5 days in the summer where we mostly rehashed first aid certification.
quote: Your not swearing to do your duty to any pacific god
the Pacific has a god? It must make the Atlantic, Indian, and Arctic feel pretty left out.
[ January 09, 2005, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: sarcasticmuppet ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Tom, the ARE a religious-based program for boys. Not making the religious part of it important would defeat the stated purpose of the Boy Scouts.
Not that I found religion to be a major part of my Boy Scout experiences."
I would argue that, if religion is not perceived as a major part of the Boy Scout experience -- and I would agree, since that was also my experience -- that the stated purpose of the Boy Scouts is in fact rather different from the actual purpose of the Boy Scouts, and the Boy Scouts might do well to recognize their actual purpose since it is often at odds with their stated purpose. Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
Ooops... I'm going to bed now... I"ll fix tmy typo when i get up
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Religion was a major part of my Boy Scout experience.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Well, you're a Utah Mormon, aren't you? One of the things I don't like about the way the Mormons have gotten their fingers into the Boy Scouts is precisely that phenomenon.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
My son is a Cub Scout. I haven't had much to do with it (it's mostly something he does with his dad, who was a Scout when he was a kid), but I've been very happy with what he seems to be getting out of it.
And Tom, not only Mormons have Scout troops that are distinctly (and specifically) religious in flavor.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
You are right, I didn't know what the actual, stated policy of the Boy Scouts (regarding homosexuality and the lawsuit) was; I was just reacting on a gut level to what I perceived the policy to be. That was a mistake. However (and of course there is a 'however'! ), I obviously didn't let it affect my son's participation in the organization, as he is a Cub now, and I am the one who is his "Akela" (parent partner).
So there.
Neener. Neener.
*grin*
I'm truly sorry if I offended any of our Boy Scouts, former Boy Scouts, and past (and present) Boy Scout employees. Not my intent, not my intent at all.
And I will reiterate that any Scouting experience is colored by the participation of the leaders, Scouts, and their parent partners. Like anything, Scouting is what you make of it.
Right now, we're making our first derby car. I'm hoping that my husband will finish it. I'll help the boy race it, but hubbie needs to help with the construction!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: Well, you're a Utah Mormon, aren't you?
No. While Ilive in Utah now, I grew up in Texas and Oklahoma. I didn't come out to Utah until I was a college student.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"And Tom, not only Mormons have Scout troops that are distinctly (and specifically) religious in flavor."
*nod* I know. But let me count my blessings that I had at least one local troop that didn't try to push a church down my throat as a child, thus making it possible for me to enjoy the many other positive elements of Scouting.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*snickers at the irony of using "count my blessings"* Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
That's why I included it. The secular appropriation of things formerly intended to be useful and unique to religious thought is something that's near and dear to my heart. *grin*
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I was in Cubs in England, and it was the best year and a half of my life. Religion is not a part of Scouts or Guides there (or if it is, it is nondenominationally Anglican, meaning it really isn't except Christmas and the Queen is involved) and having boys and girls together was wonderful.
The camps were amazing; we were allowed to run around in the nearby woods, without supervision, until we were called back by a whistle. There was a World War Two bunker in the woods! It was the most real experience of my life.
At meetings we played wide games in the dark and got chased down and dragged in the mud by what felt like huge leaders. We cooked beans and bacon over candles and we did knots and tracking and everything.
In Canada, I went to Guides ('to make friends'). It was the worst experience of my life. We did badges indoors. I was unhappy- it was the only time in my life I had ever been teased and felt bad about it! Pathfinders, although a little better, was the same. No mud, no wide games, to wild gallumphing through the dark, no feeling of age or experience, only rules and badges.
That is my story.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Tom, I meant that there was no specific religion mentioned....we were all from different backgrounds, and we had both Christian and Jewish scouts in my troop, IIRC.
Religion was always stressed, in that we had a private moment fro prayer before meals, and of course it is mentioned in the Oath, but it was more slanted towards fun activities and community service....both which are within the Boy Scouts stated goals.
It wa sort of like the Masons, to be honest....they didn't care which God you worshipped, as long as you believed in something.
Kwea
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
I have fond memories of Girl Scouts. My troop was not focused on making good wives. I was in it from Daisy through Junior, but right after I bridged to cadet my troop fell apart. For some reason when middle school started the troop just disintegrated.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
I was in the Boy Scouts till I hit star rank, at which point my dad couldn't stand the hyper-religious, hyper-conservative leaders of my troop anymore and we both got sick of the organizations attitude toward gays and quit in protest. I was never a fan of the religious undercurrents of the whole thing, being a rather ardent atheist, but I was good friends with a lot of the people in my troop and had a whole ton of fun with them. So I kept my mouth shut as best I could.
I'm glad I quit though. I wasn't learning much from it that my dad couldn't have taught me, or I couldn't have learned by camping and hiking on my own, which I do quite a bit now. And its freed up a lot of my time for other things I want to do. I've considered a couple of times creating an organization similar, but geared entirely toward wilderness hiking and camping and learning the skills involved. The BoyScouts with all the extra religious/morality stuff removed. But never got around to it.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Okay, I'm morally opposed because the Boy Scouts here use public schools for meeting places. If they want to be a private club, stop handing out fliers in class, making announcements in class, making kids wear their uniforms to school and hold meetings in a public school. That's all.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Given the topic of the thread, you might want to check this out:
So literally I have been in scouts in one way or another for my entire life. I was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Assistant Cubmaster and Den leader, and merit badge counselor, all before I heard that the BSA didn't want me in their organization.
More recently I've learned some of the history of how the current conrtoversy grew. The BSA didn't make an issue out of religion before 1985. In fact, until a few years ago the Boy Scout handbook read: (Under "A Scout is Reverent")
quote: The United States Constitution gives us complete freedom to believe and worship as we wish without fear of punishment. All your life, you will encounter people who hold different religious beliefs or even none at all. It is your duty to respect and defend the rights of others whose beliefs may be different than yours.
I've never encountered anyone within the troops or packs that I've worked with that gave me any impression that I wasn't welcome. I have met scout leaders from the district level who made it clear that religion was a central issue to them. But the religious requirements for scouting are actually fairly minimal. Those that defend the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance call it "ceremonial deism," which I think is about right.
But eventually the issues in the news reached a point where I couldn't honestly feel comfortable being a registered member. I still have many friends from within scouting. And I still think it's the best program of its kind in the world. But the current leadership has made a mockery of what the BSA was meant to stand for.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
That pretty much sums up what I think Glenn.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I guess I was out of scouting by 1990 or so, so any changes around 1985 probably hadn't trickled down to our neck of the woods.
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and we work for the government... we dig trenches around area 51 for service hours...
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