Well I just spent all day trying to install crown moulding in my daughter's bedroom. You would think that a guy with a modicum of carpentry experience could manage to put up more than just 4 pieces of moulding in 7 hours of work wouldn't ya? I spent the first several hours trying to get the angles right with my compound mitre saw. I finally found a website that at least gave the correct setting for a 90 degree angle but I can't figure out how to do the two odd angles in the room. Does anyone know an easy way to measure angles and have a formula for calculating the bevel and the mitre angle when the moulding is flat on the saw. Grrrr, much frustration today.
Edit to add that I attempted to estimate the wall angle and use the website I linked to calculate the proper saw settings. The resulting product will be hauled away with the rest of the trash tomorrow.
[ April 05, 2005, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I feel your pain . . . I have done this in two rooms in our house so far. Mango's room has a couple of odd angles in it as well. Now, how odd is odd? In Mango's room, it turned out that we were simply looking at 45-degree angles, making the cuts 22.5 degree and 112.5 degree cuts (or some such).
I'd love to be able to help you, but I can't think of a way to do it using words only--without physically being there, or being able to hold pieces in my hands.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Generally speaking, though, corners are factors of 45/90 degrees. Can you describe the room?
Chances are, 22.5 will work.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
There is one wall that isn't square to the room. The east wall, where the door is is about 12 feet long. The west wall is about 14 feet long. The north wall is divided by the odd angle. I would guestimate that the angle from the east wall to the north/east wall is about 135 degrees and the angle for the north/east wall to the north wall is maybe 160 degrees or so.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Can you sketch it somehow and e-mail it to me? (Or post it to a website?)
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
You could borrow your daughter's protractor (I bet she has one if she's in school) and a straight edge and/or a square to get an exact angle measurement.
AJ
[ January 19, 2005, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
How, if it's an inside (i.e., less than 90 degree) corner?
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Here is a rough sketch of the room. I've had some time to think about how to do this and I may try to stabilize the moulding on the saw at it's normal position. If I can do that I will be in like flint. Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
It is more than 90 degress, not less. I was thinking of doing something similar to your suggestion AJ. Start tomorrow with a fresh mindset.
[ January 19, 2005, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I betcha it's a 45-degree angle, so chop in half to 22.5 degrees.
Unless, of course, you've already tried this. :-p
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Icarus, one of the angles (the one abutting the east wall) might be 90 plus 45 or 135 degrees but the angle in the middle of the north wall is more like 155 to 160 degrees. I'm not sure why you are saying 45 degress unless you are talking about the setting for the saw. You would normally cut at a 45 degree angle for a 90 or square corner but I can't see cutting at 22.5 for an angle that is over 90 degrees. I am appreciative of the assistance and am hopeful that I'm not coming across as grumpy.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
If you measure the length of each wall, you (or we) should be able to calculate the angles. At least if those three corners that looks to be 90 degrees really are.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
They should be close but they won't be exactly 90. This house is over 100 yrs old and I haven't found anything perfectly square to date. I think I'm going to do something similar to AJ's suggestion with a straight edge and a protractor.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Okay, a 135-degree angle, so chop to 67.5 degrees. Happy?
Regarding corners not being perfectly 90 degrees, that is why the Lord invented caulking. :-p
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
And spackling. I've already goofed measuring on the angles I knew how to cut and had to fill the atrocious gap with a bunch of spackling. I also had to glue a 5/8 inch piece of moulding to the last piece I managed to install. Obviously I need to stick to painting the stuff as opposed to installing it.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
In like flint?
Were you purposefully making reference to the James Coburn spoof, or what?
Did you get it cut yet, or do you still need help?
(I have a bunch of guys at the house watching KU basketball and playing poker that I could ask.)
(Hey if you're ever up this way on Wednesdays nights, they will probably be here playing poker, iffen you ever wanted to play.)
(You should come too Caleb, iffen you're reading this.)
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Okay, I asked anyway. Apparently, compound miter cuts suck.
But, what they said you should do it put it up on the wall, trace the outline of the one you're butting into on it, then back-cut it with a coping saw, doing it deeper than you think you need to. It should feather into the piece you already have up perfectly.
I almost know what they are talking about. Need some help?
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Kayla, I've tried coping and I seem to be even less facile at that than I am at compound mitre cuts. I've got my method for measuring the angle and here in a bit I'm gonna give it a go again. Maybe I'll take some pics and post them later.
I'd love to play poker some time but Wednesday's are my bowling night. If they still are playing come summertime I could make it then.
To all that have offered assistance I offer my gratitude and to Icky an apology for being contentious. Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
My Dad would always put the pieces on the wall and then trim a little bit off. He'd keep doing that until he got a perfect fit.
That would be why I used corner blocks the last time I put up crown molding.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Well I finally got the last piece installed although there is one truly ghastly corner. The ceiling at that point is about an inch higher than it is a foot away. This left me with a gap that I couldn't push the trim to cover. I've included some photo's if anyone is interested. I'm breaking for lunch as well as to give the spackle a chance to dry before I caulk and paint. Here are the pics: The second and third from the last pics are displayed 90 degrees to the right of normal. I can't figure out how to edit right now so if you wish to view them at a proper angle you'll have to cock your head to the right.
Or you can just use an AngleFinder with an appropriate MiteringConversion Table and/or Chart or Program. BTW: Contrary to what they say, ya don't actually need an 18inch or longer angle finder unless you are working with unusually thick moulding or unusually thick and/or wide crown moulding. Most moulding (especially soft wood) flexes easily enough that a shorter angle finder is adequate. Admittedly, an 18incher is handy to have around when doing carpentry in general.
I could probably figure out the trigonometry for presetting the miter saw angles. Problem is the amount of writing it would take trying to explain how to use that general-case math without visual cues. With no guarantee that what I think I'm writing will be the same as how you interpret what I wrote. One of those things that's a LOT easier to do face-to-face.
There are even several relatively-easy methodical ways to get close-enough-to-matching compound cuts -- with no angle finder, no math, and no conversion tables/charts or programs/calculators -- through a rough-cut preset then some minor final-setting of the blade angles by ever closer approximation on some scrap before cutting the moulding itself. Again, a LOT easier to demonstrate than to write about.
[ January 20, 2005, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Okay, Darren, you have just convinced me to NOT attempt crown moulding when I redo my house - as much as I would like to. Since, like yours, mine is so old, there is nothing in my house that is square, anywhere. I don't think I even want to try it.
FG
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
I finally got the room painted although the decorating isn't done yet. I'm including pics for anyone that is interested. The last link shows a pic of the atrocious angle that I was most concerned about. Considering how far the trim was off I'm relatively happy with the result. The design team (Anna and Cheri) will be decorating with posters and bric a brac that are Paris related. This was one of Anna's birthday presents.
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