quote:

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But I listen to the naysayers because I think their opinion on this is interesting and I don't understand it.

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quote:

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does anyone on hatrack hold, or understand, the opinion that being a housewife is a negative thing?

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My guess is that most of those who have scorn for housewives would not admit that they see it as a negative thing, possibly not even to themselves.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Hierarchy I guess. People want to feel smug and above someone... The reverse is true as well. Some women who wrok outside the home might think they are contributing more, housewives might think that moms working outside of the home are selfish.
Again, both attitudes are distructive because people are just doing their best either way.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
When the kids are in school, she volunteers. Nope.
She may be part of the PTA. Nope.
How much is the housekeeper responsible for? Cleans the house from top to bottom once a week.
There may be other, perhaps elderly family members to take care of. Nope. Her parents are dead, her husbands parents are healthy and still working.
She may have church obligations. Yes - I do beleive she has some church obligations.
She may do family history. Nope.
She may be quilting. Nope.
She pays the bills, grocery shops, For two people, with bills online.
takes kids to and from lessons or sports, etc. No kids at home.

She can do whatever she wants, and after a lifetime of raising kids and working, why not? Moaning about how life was just so hectic was pretty risible, though.

[ January 20, 2005, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
There are always attitudes that crop up to give people a sense of superiority. I think it is human nature. And every single one of us does it.

I, for one, disdain people who foolishly deny reality in order to embrace fairytale perceptions. I'm not talking about adhering to philosophical views or opinions. Those are up for debate and such. I'm talking about having the facts before them, and still denying them or doing nothing about them because they'd rather it not be true.
 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
PSI, just saw your edit. I would definately agree that the situation could leave room for resentment if both husband and wife aren't on board.

Luckily, Mr. Opera and I are. I don't take advantage of him by not doing my "job" at home, and he doesn't take advantage of me by doing absolutely nothing at home or working longer hours because I'm always there.

I think people's opinions on housewives (or SAHMs with older children as Belle pointed out ) are interesting because the criticism doesn't stem from the same cause as the working mom/SAHM debate. There's no resentment over whether the kids are in daycare or at home...it's something different altogether.

space opera
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
Well, then... I guess that rather than simply owning up to the fact that she doesn't really like to read for pleasure (because it is a commendable vice) she just says she doesn't have time. Because reading addicts make time, even when there isn't

But once a week cleaning leaves cooking, laundry, clutter, etc. Obligations to friends, making appearances at the country club. Probably getting her hair done every week or more. Her nails. Must keep her clothes in season...
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
I guess I can't see a problem with someone choosing to do this, Space. I know that I, personally, get very irked when women I know who don't have much to do compare themselves to me. That's different. I probably inadvertantly pass that annoyance onto people who don't deserve it, such as yourself.

One girl I know has been married a total of two months, has absolutely nothing to do except clean a one-bedroom apartment, and constantly tries to compare her housecleaning to mine. She says things like, "I know my husband will always stay with me because *I* never miss a meal when I'm cooking for him." I have to bite my tongue to keep from pointing out that the reason her dinner is always done is because she has eight hours to prepare it everyday.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 

quote:

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"Well, I bet you were glad about that. I'd like to be able to send my kids off all day too." (she homeschools her children)

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quote:

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"I know my husband will always stay with me because *I* never miss a meal when I'm cooking for him."

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I swear statements like this is one of the reasons I'm not married. I'll slit my wrists before I give someone so much power over me and count myself as worth so little that I believe their continued condescension is only secured by a well-cooked pot roast.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
Not to mention the fact that it isn't true and doesn't work that way. She's in happy-happy land right now. What can I say.
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Speaking of pot roast, I threw one in the crock pot this morning and it is tormenting me. It smells so incredibly good I want to eat it right NOW.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
At the risk of derailing, how does one make a really good pot roast?
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
All I know is that I'm going to Jeni's for dinner.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
Easiest way:

1 frozen chuck roast
1 can French Onion soup

Put frozen roast in 13x9 pan, pour soup over it, and cook at 325 for three and a half hours.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
If it doesn't involve the Crock-Pot, I can't do it.
 

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Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
 
Put it in the crock pot, and veggies and some water or a can of soda pop (sprite, dr pepper, coke) salt, pepper, garlic, any other spices that smell good at the time. Add an apple (don't eat it after it is cooked it doesn't taste good). Lemon juice, balsamic vinegar, some olive oil and cook it all day.

There is nothing wrong with a stay at home mom who has kids in school. My mom was home when we got home and the few times that she wasn't I remember sitting out on the steps crying because she wasn't there. If you can do it more power to you.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
I say it's still possible to be busy and be home when your kids get there.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
*lightbulb*

You know, I bet if a wife gets herself taken care of during the day, ie plenty of rest and some recreation, it's a lot easier to let her husband do the same when he gets home.

Like, if you are well-rested/content, you can take care of all the hassles when hubby gets home and make sure he gets a break from *his* work.

I'm hitting upon something very important here.

edit: Like, you know, if a woman works herself to death before the husband gets home, she kinda hopes that when he gets home he'll let her relax a bit or entertain her or amuse her some? Like, some women (probably me included) see the time when hubby gets home as a time to get her needs met, as far as adult interaction and relaxation are concerned. (Not that other, dirtier thing.)

But, not so for the woman who can take a break during the day! She has had her turn, and she can let the hubby have his turn to rest too. It probably takes some stress off of him if he knows he isn't going to be expected to amuse the family when he gets home from work.

[ January 20, 2005, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Both my parents are retired and they are both incredibly busy every day. I keep telling them they need a vacation from their retirement.

Kat, you really need to open your mind a little. I mean, you have a full-time job, but manage to post here, what, over 16,000 times in less than 5 years? Just under your Katharina name alone.

How busy could you be at work? People at McDonald's, who actually work for a living, certainly don't have time to surf the web all day. Not only do you make better money, but you get to goof around while doing it.

I'm just saying, you might consider that the woman is actually busy. She may not be busy in a way you think is productive, but it may seem to her that you aren't working in a productive way either, if you have a full-time job and manage to spend time reading fiction, going to church, grocery shopping and other normal things, not to mention all the things she's doing that she thinks are important and still spend the majority of your day at hatrack. It's just a thought.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 
I think you are onto something, PSI.

(Although I am one of those people who can always find or invent something to do, and I really hate the sight of people relaxing)
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
I do that too. For someone who is so inherently lazy, I sure can come up with a thousand projects for myself to take up all my time.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
Bite me, Kayla. I never talked about myself in my posts above, and I didn't make it personal to you. There's no reason or cause for you to turn personally insulting to me.

I know exactly what my own life is like, and I'm not complaining at all. I like it. I enjoy the freedom I get at work - I get everything done by the deadlines, and I can apportion my time as I want. I like my job and my life, and I am as busy as I want to be.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Coming from a background of having both parents at home, all day, every day, while growing up, I think having a SAHP is an awesome way to raise children and make a home. Goodness knows, there was an enormous amount of security and luxury in my life that I took for granted.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"But even if I did absolutely *nothing* all day except the minimum amount of housework and spend the rest of the day napping on the couch is it worthy of criticism?"

Yes.
Because I've been a househusband. I've also lived alone. And keeping a house is not that hard. It's not a full-time job.

If this would be the extent of your contribution to the household, you would indeed be open to criticism insofar as you would not be legitimately pulling your own weight.

Whether "pulling your own weight" is a value that we need to enforce in this society is another issue. But most of the arguments I've seen that make the case for housewife as a respected profession also assume childcare; if you remove the childcare from the equation, it's not as easy of a lifestyle to justify.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Have you even considered the possiblibity that she is exactly as busy as she wants to be? You're the one who wanted to roll her eyes at this poor woman. What's with that?
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
To be fair, her kids are there all day except for a six-hour stretch, tops.
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Syn, the best pot roast I've ever made:

Brown the outside of the roast in a hot skillet with oil. Dump it in the crock pot. Dump a can of cream of mushroom soup on it. Dump a packet of dry onion soup over that. Put the lid on and cook on low all day.

I hope today's roast will be as good. I am thinking I'll garnish with french fried onions (from a can) and gravy (from a mix). Au gratin potatoes (also from a box) and fresh steamed broccoli to bring it all together.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Well, Tom, shoot all the country club wives right now. And those who inherited money. I mean, they aren't contributing to society.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
I'm not rolling my eyes because I don't think she's busy. I'm rolling my eyes that the reason she doesn't read books is because she's far too busy. It's buying a Mercedes and then saying the reason the you don't collect local art is because you're too poor. I completely believe that there's no money for that cause, but it's for other reasons than poverty.

Which is what I said in my post. Read more carefully before you get insulting.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 
Now I'm craving pot roast, which I rarely have anymore (mad cow, y'know, and organic beef is so expensive). I brown mine, put it in the pot with about 1/3 a bottle red wine, carrots, celery, tons of garlic, bouquet garni....remove meat before serving and puree all the veggies and liquid, serve meat with polenta or risotto, with the sauce.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
I'm guessing that Tom would not so much be arguing for "shooting" them as for "not being obligated to praise" them. I can see that. Still, I think it is (and should be) a family's choice, insofar as possible. Priorities will differ, and individual stories are always more complicated than they look from outside.

[ January 20, 2005, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 

quote:

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guessing that Tom would so much be for "shooting" them as "not being obligated to praise" them

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I'm guessing you meant to put he word "not" in there..but it's a bit funnier this way.
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Tom, respectfully, you might have been a househusband, but you weren't one with kids. While I earnestly believe that children are a blessing, they are also a lot of work. They add a lot to household management, even when they aren't home. The laundry alone is two to three times as much. The floor has to be vacuumed twice as often (if not more so). And so on.

And PSI, I think you're 100% right...when there is someone home to take care of the household management (and get his/her breaks during the day), it leaves the other spouse a lot more room to relax and take a break in the evening for a little while. I think it allows the family to have time to be a family...to build the relationships closer and really know each other better.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
dpr, you would be guessing so right.

I've had a bit of a love/hate (heavy on the irritating sauce) relationship with my keyboard lately. Fie, dratted thing.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 

 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
"If you remove the childcare from the equation, it's not as easy of a lifestyle to justify."

Do you mean no children period, or no children at home during the day?

If it's the latter, that's exactly what this thread is about - but I'm not sure if that's what you meant, Tom.

space opera
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
How much irritating sauce have you spilled into it CT? Too much ketchup on the fries again?
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I could not be a housewife.. Look at how messy my place is. I despise cleaning so much.

Also, I should get a pot roast

*Wonders how anyone can be too busy to read. I read while cooking and while going to the bathroom*
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
No children home during the day is quite different. As has already been mentioned, there is still great advantage to simply being available if your children or even your husband needs you.

I do often rest in the middle of the day because my evenings are very full and I don't rest then. I don't get much rest on weekends, either. But those are resting periods for both my husband and children. If I'm wired and stressed because I just got home from a bad day at work and food needs to be cooked, and homework needs to be helped, etc., I'm not going to be able to give as much to my family than if I were well rested when the troops came in.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I'd even extend it to the "no children at home during the day." Of course, this may vary. You may find that your children add so much to your normal household chores that you cannot get those chores done in the evenings and weekends. You may also find that they're demanding of your time in the evenings, particularly when they're of a certain age, and thus wish you had more time during the day to get traditional evening chores -- like meal preparation -- done earlier.

This is a perfectly valid choice. But it does not represent a particularly hard life. At worst, you are working around one-fifth as hard as the average maid.

It's not a choice that deserves criticism unless you assume that all non-optimal lifestyles -- meaning any lifestyle that contains any bit of leisure in it -- are deserving of criticism. But neither is it a "noble" endeavor. It's not even difficult work.

Edit: Note that I consider childcare very difficult work. If you do the lion's share of the childcare in the evenings, and consequently have no downtime to yourself, you can make the legitimate case that these evenings constitute your real burden. No problem. But I think fewer and fewer households are structured so that the housewife is still the exclusive provider of meals, childcare, and cleaning duties in the evenings.

[ January 20, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Just thought of something. Could some of the "get a job" be some sort of subconcious reverse envy? I mean everyone would like to be in a financial position where they could stay home more. I also know in some social circles, the condescension goes both ways. The women who do stay home (and send their kids to school) look down on the ones that work as much as the other way around.

AJ
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
You know, I hold that about 50% of the "work" in work is the mental part. Doing chores when you have children, even if you can't see them and they are busy, is harder than doing the same chores without them. Things always look easier when you don't have the mental stress to go with it.
 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
dpr, I don't know why she homeschools. She does seem to enjoy it at times, but at other times trying to homeschool 3 small children seems to be incredibly stressful for her. I guess it's like a lot of things - sometimes you like it and sometimes you hate it.

PSI, it's funny you said that about comparisons. That used to get under my skin as well, but now what gets under my skin are comments like, "Oh, I have 2 toddlers at home with me all day...must be nice to have it easy like you." I usually want to reply, "I already did that, what you're going through doesn't impress me, and I deserve what little break I get now."

I like what CT said about priorities in a family and getting the inside picture (to paraphrase). Up until a little over a year ago I went to school full-time and worked part-time. I can't describe how nice it's been to not fight over housework, not worry about who picks up the kids if they get sick, etc. The kids hated every after-school program they were in. But this works for us now, and we're all happy with it. I'm keeping busy, believe me. As Tom said, housework (but I don't think he's ever cleaned or done laundry for 4 people) might not take all day, but volunteering, helping with homework, running errands, etc. combined with that sure does.

space opera
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
Not having enough time to read is not always a matter of being too busy.

Some people don't actually like to read very much. Reading is a chore to them, and "reading for fun" only means the reading is fiction. Why put so much effort into having fun? There are easier ways to do it.

But because such attitudes are intellectually not PC, they simply have too much else to do than read.

We really shouldn't disdain people like that (we shouldn't disdain anyone, really, though unfortunately we all find some reason to). If they are happy the way they are, if their actions or lack thereof does no harm to society, who are we to criticize? I think that is very much like critisizing the housewife.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
The disdain wasn't for the non-reading - the disdain was for talking about what a great reader she'd be if only the shopping didn't get in the way.

It's like Lady Catherine: "My daughter would be an excellent pianist if she ever chose to play."
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 

quote:

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But this works for us now, and we're all happy with it.

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So, this is all that matters, IMO.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Mustard, AJ.
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
romany: we buy our beef as a cow and have it slaughtered, so we know what's in it. We can't possibly eat an entire cow, though, so we usually split it with several other families. The cow always comes from someone we know -- it's usually free range and grain fed the last few weeks of its life. If you want (you're close enough geographically), I'll let you know when we're about to restock the freezer and give you the opportunity to buy a quarter of it. Or an eighth. We're probably 4 or 5 months from it, though. It's easily the cheapest way to buy beef, and we know it has no hormones or whatever in it.
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
Since a good third of this thread is devoted to pot roast recipes, I'll toss mine in:

I cook mine all day (appr. 8 hours) in two cans of beef broth, with Worcestershire sauce added, along with onions and potatoes (and whatever other veggies you like, e.g., carrots--neither I nor my hubby care for cooked carrots, so we skip em). It's sooooo tender by the time you take it out (assuming you've gotten a decent roast).
 

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Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Another reason to love housewives... they feed me. Yay!


 

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Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
My mom was/is a "housewife." It was nice when we were little, in case either my sister or I got sick, but that was extraordinarily rare. As we got older and branching out in our lives, Mom did the same and got more involved, since we (most likely) weren't going to require as much during-the-day assistance - but she was/es always home around the time school let out in case we need/ed a ride. Although, for all I know, she was gone while we were younger and I just have no idea. Hmm.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 
jeniwren, that would be awesome!!! That would just make dh so happy
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Excellent! I'll write it on my calendar for May, as I think we'll be ready about then. We'll probably include my brother and his wife on the buy too...they live in West Seattle, so it won't be any big deal to bring your share down to you.
 

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Posted by Danzig avoiding landmarks (Member # 6792) on :
 
Personally, I believe a "normal" (middle-class, non-lottery winner, etc.) housewife (or househusband) with children outside the home should have a part-time job, or some means of economic self-support. Unless your prenuptial agreement and/or life insurance are airtight, what happens when your spouse leaves you, abuses you, or gets struck by lightning? It is no longer a reasonable expectation to have one partner be the sole economic provider.

This is not an excuse to put in a second shift, or let your spouse do it. Make your kids do whatever they are competent to, and be equitable in dividing the rest. And do not sweat the little things - there is no point in making a bed that will have the sheets mussed in less than twelve hours.

Your children do not (or should not) define your entire life away from your spouse. If my wife spends her entire time taking care of my children, what on earth did she do before we had them? Start a home business; put in office hours in mine; paint, sing, write; do strange new drugs and write trip reports on them; do something that defines you. There is more to life than perpetuating the cycle.

Hell, homeschool if you are competent. If it is so important to guide your children (and it ought to be) that you are willing to sacrifice a second income, why not go all the way? Public schools are not that great. Helping your children develop their potential is worth it, but keeping the carpet a shade whiter is not. I never asked for dinner to be waiting every day; I can cook and so can any child of eight or nine.

Of course, I want to marry a woman who is committed to remaining childfree, and am firmly convinced I would not make a good father, so my opinion is probably worth its weight in gold.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
As a kid, I always really liked finding someone at home making dinner when I got back from school. For a while it was my mum, and then for a while it was my dad.
 

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Posted by Danzig avoiding landmarks (Member # 6792) on :
 
Oh, I liked it as well, but it could have been me that prepared them. Would have been one less thing I need to learn now.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Heh heh. Well, it wasn't so much the making dinner part for me as it was the finding someone at home already. For the brief period of time when both my parents worked full-time, I had to go to dad's office every day after school and then we would go home when he was ready.
 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
Danzig, while I appreciate your opinion, I firmly believe that you're making assumptions which aren't true.

Just because a woman is a housewife does *not* mean that she defines her entire life by her children. Yes, I'm very involved in my children's lives. But, I also volunteer, do various crafts, take internet college courses, and write - just to name a few of my hobbies and activities.

Also, just because a woman is a housewife is no reason to believe that she cares more about keeping her carpet a "shade whiter" than about anything else. I don't stay home 'cause I love to clean, silly. I stay home because it makes our family life run more smoothly. It's a decision my husband and I made together. I'm not obsessed with cleanser, I swear.

To be honest, I don't worry too much about economic self-support. I was a SAHM for part of my first marriage, and I walked out on him with less education than I do now. I was able to get a job and support 2 young children on my own - being a housewife did not stop me from this. It's wrong to assume that housewives don't have marketable skills and won't be able to find work if they need to. It will be more difficult if they've been out of the job market for years, but it can be done.

I'm interested though - why do you have these assumptions? The one that bothered me the most was you telling housewives (me?) that they need to do something that defines them. Why do you assume that housewife = no life?

space opera
 

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Posted by Danzig avoiding landmarks (Member # 6792) on :
 
If you do something that defines you, great. Most or all of the housewives on Hatrack seem to have something or several somethings. In real life, most notably the church I attended in high school, I can think of several cases where this is not so, and it does not seem healthy. There is nothing inherent in the job description of housewife (or househusband) that I feel defines anyone, except as someone who manages to fulfill basic parental obligations. Congratulations, but what happens when the last one moves out?

I suppose part of this is because I do not intend to have children, but plan to do my best if it happens anyway. I have no problem with supporting a woman who did something at home, but it has to be something of value to her and myself. I realize that many (most?) couples want children... but I view raising children as an additional obligation to both parties, and not part of housework. <edit> It seems others view childrearing as part of housework, a notion I reject. </edit> If you do want kids, what does stay-at-home spouse do before they are born?

I guess in order to answer your question I would need to know more of what you consider to be "housework". Sure, the bill-paying and some chores need to be done, but the essential ones were (presumably) done by both parties before they were married. Cleaning dishes is essential, but making the bed is not. Do you really do all the outside, non-childrearing tasks in your household?

quote:

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I was a SAHM for part of my first marriage, and I walked out on him with less education than I do now.

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You have my respect for that. If you are have a reasonable expectation of your ability to provide for yourself and any dependents, that is fine. If you do not, that is a problem. I suppose if you are childfree/childless you can make your own bed, but if you do have dependents you have a responsibility to be able to support them without aid. If you are independently wealthy and will remain so, that is great, but most people are not.

Outside interests are wonderful. Personally, I would love to be free to spend all day in a library. I would love to make enough in a nine to five to support my wife in doing the same. But it is the spending the day in the library that is worthwhile, not spending it at home doing nothing <edit the second> besides her share of the housework, which I ought to be sharing equally </edit>.

[ January 20, 2005, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Danzig avoiding landmarks ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I haven't read the whole thread yet, and already, I'm going to pipe in with comments. If I'm repeating someone else, um, sorry. But not sorry enough to not do it anyway.

First, I hate that term housewife. You're not married to the house. Why not use "homemaker" instead?

Second, why is it any of their business? It's between you and your husband. And your children. It doesn't involve anyone else.

Third. Um, I'll think of a third sometime, I promise.

I'm a stay-at-home person, but we don't have kidlets, so it's not that. I just don't want to work, and hubby doesn't want me to, either. I've spent too many years stressed over supporting myself, and I don't feel like doing that anymore. Plus I want to pursue my writing. Since hubby makes enough, it isn't necessary for me to work, and he's totally supportive of me writing.

And I get the looks, too. I also get the comments. The judgements. But whatever. It's their problem. This is what's best for me and hubby, and that's all that matters.
 

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Posted by Danzig avoiding landmarks (Member # 6792) on :
 

quote:

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This is what's best for me and hubby, and that's all that matters.

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Seconded and applauded.
 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
Danzig, the way things are set up now I pretty much do all the cleaning and laundry, as well as run the errands and grocery shopping, making any appropriate appts. for the children and taking them, co-ordinating everyone's schedules, cooking, helping kids w/ homework, taking care of our animals and getting them to the vet, working with the kids on special activities (like 4-H), etc.

Now, Mr. Opera does his fair share. He will happily cook dinner if I don't feel like it and is quick to help out in the evenings if I happen to be folding laundry or something like that - but I usually don't do that stuff at night because we're busy with dinner, dessert, baths for kids, stories, etc. He's definately an involved parent as well. Don't get me wrong - he loves me being at home but has always made it clear that since we don't have to have a second income whatever I do is my choice and supported by him.

Quid, I do like your attitude about this - and I didn't know you stayed at home. I agree that it's people's problem if they take issue with it, but I have to wonder why this can be a hot issue. Tom noted earlier that it isn't hard work, but why does that matter? I've done data entry before, and that's not hard, but people don't take issue with that job. It just seems to strike a chord with a lot of people.

space opera

edit: Danzig, I forgot to add that I totally agree with housewives needing a life outside of their children - everybody does.

[ January 20, 2005, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
*Wants to be a stay-at-home writer so badly*

People need to chill...
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
Kayla, it's none of my business, but your comments struck me as rather harsh.

I'll butt the hell out, now.

-o-

There are a number of Hatrackers who have been quite vocal in their opposition to the concept of someone whose sole "job" is as a homemaker. I'll let them speak for themselves if they choose to enter this thread, but I wanted to point out that they do exist.

-o-

Having one of us (me, probably) be a homemaker (permanently--I did SAHD thing for a few months when we got the girls) is a luxury we did not choose to be able to afford. I wouldn't change any of the choices we have made, because they were the right ones for us, I think. But I wish our finances had been such that we could have afforded it without having to give up any of the other things we feel are important.

-o-

I know there are exceptions, including notable ones here at Hatrack, but most homeschooling parents are not equipped to do a good job of it, in my observation. I understand having objections to the public school system, and I understand believing that a quality, well-rounded education is not your highest priority for a child. But the line that people should homeschool because our schools don't do a good job is, in large part, a myth, because most people do a worse job, not a better one. Unfortunately, most people are both underqualified and oversubjective to adequately evaluate the quality of an instructional job that they do.

I sure know that Cor has had to teach a slew of kids who enter the system having never written anything longer than a sentence or two in their lives. And I've had to teach a lot of kids who swear to me that they learned calculus at home, and they sort of did, except that they can't solve a linear equation to save their lives.
 

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Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
 
This may not be true for all housewives, but what really gets to me is the lack of structure. At most jobs I have had, there is a certain level of courtesy and respect coming from boss, coworkers or customers. Sure it's not always great, but there is a system in place.

I guess if I wanted it to be that way at home I would just have to create it. But no one wants to view their spouse and kids as customers. At least I don't.

Actually I run a sort of business here. I do all the office stuff for my husband's business.

I think its easier knowing you are getting paid for what you do. I shouldn't be more willing to do something in that respect, but the fact is I am. So I guess I'm not a really good person to judge by. I don't feel like the work I do actually makes me any money, it just enables my husband to make money.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Before I married Fahim and still lived in Canada, I worked as a self-employed accountant. I was good at it, and it paid the bills, but I was so burnt out. I hated doing it. Hated hated hated hated. If I absolutely had to have an income, I could do it again, but I'd rather poke a mechanical pencil in my eye.

I'd wanted to become a writer for a few years before we got married, but what with supporting myself, it didn't happen.

But when Fahim and I started discussing marriage, I told him how much I didnt' want to work anymore, and he told me how much he'd rather marry someone who didn't want to work outside the home, so it was all good. He's also a writer - has hundreds of newspaper and magazine articles published, plus he also writes science fiction - so he completely understood. But then, that was a major part of the attraction, that we understood each other so well.

So, yes, I am not employed. But I do now write for two magazines and am working on novels. But I also admit that we spend a fair bit of time playing. We love watching movies, and with DVDs being so cheap here, we tend to go through a lot. I think we have over 500 in our collection now - Fahim's working on updating the database. I don't have a hard life by any stretch. Now. I used to have a very hard life. I like the way things are now, very much. It all evens out.

I could even point out further just how good of a life I have now. We have someone come in every other week or so to clean. Because we can afford to, it helps the local economy, this woman is otherwise unemployed, and I have a bad back and can't do a lot of things. Plus we both hate cleaning. So why not?

But if people take issue with this, it's their issue, not mine, and not Fahim's. Fahim is happy with the way our household is set up, and so am I. We can afford to do things this way. And if something happened to him, I could support myself if I had to. What else matters?
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Sounds cool to me.
How did you become a writer? I want to be a writer so badly I'd sell an eye. I totally would too.
Heck, I'd even hang off a tree for 9 days and nights like Odin...
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Syn, do you mean how do you become published? Because to become a writer, you just write. All the time. Although, by that definition, I'm not a writer either cuz I don't write all the time. But anyway . . .

Should we start a new thread or further derail this one?
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
SO, responding to your original post, it seemed to me that that woman was more resentful of non-homeschoolers than housewives.

This thread strikes a cord for me. I am now a housewife and I have gotten so much criticism and animosity for it. My own mother told me that I was wasting my education. I started working when I was 8 (no, not a lemonade stand or selling candy - physically demanding farm chores for our neighbors) and worked until about 2.5 years ago. I was working 16-hour-days 6 days a week and 10 hours on Sundays. I barely saw my husband and, even though I liked my job, I was miserable. I had to take a family leave when my mother got sick and when I got back, I decided not to go back to work.

Does this mean that I spend my time on the sofa eating bon bons all day? No, but it's no one's business if I did.

First of all, certain types of households do require a lot of cleaning. I typically spend about 4 hours per day cleaning, not counting cleaning up dishes after supper, etc. I have a lot of silver that has to be polished once a week, which is very time-consuming when done properly. We're all allergic to dust, so I dust and vacuum every day. I polish once a week, which takes forever (we have a piano and tons of tables). I clean and disinfect the bathroom every day. I have linens that need to be hand-washed. I make sure that Andrew has clean, ironed clothing for work. Then there are the things like having the car washed, rotating the closets seasonally, and scrubbing out the fridge.

For me, taking care of my husband is time consuming. I fix all of his meals from scratch every day. I tend to his clothes. I run all of his errands (he's never been to our bank or post office) and organize his schedule. I pack his suitcase when he goes out of town. I send cards and gifts to his co-workers and bosses when appropriate and I throw and attend holiday parties. I have frequent supper parties, which take a lot of planning when you do everything yourself (which I do). My job is to be an asset to Andrew and help his career.

I take care of our dogs, which is a big job when one of them has health problems. I take classes here at the college and teach Hebrew school at my synagogue. I go the the range several times a week.

Do I get my nails done every week? Yep. And my hair done every 3 weeks? Sure do. Shopping? All the time. There's nothing wrong with that.

I am the CEO of my family and it's much better for it. I've never been happier and the only thing that's missing is children (which will hopefully no longer be the case very soon).
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Let's start a new topic... I write... in my head pretty much all the time and in blogs several times a day.
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
All that being said, I am planning on pursuing a graduate degree when all of my future children are in school all day. Very slowly, because I want to be very involved in their school, activities, etc.
 

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Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
 
Okay, I confess I didn't read through every single post in this thread. I skimmed most of the ones I didn't read, though I didn't stick around long for pot roast. But I'm surprised that--as far as I saw, anyway--no one has yet mentioned the "F" word.

"Feminism". I think that's the real villain in this little drama.

Now, before everyone jumps on me and crucifies me for being a horrible sexist pig, let me just say first of all that I myself am a feminist. That is, if we define feminism as the belief that women are equal to men and should have the same rights and privileges that men have, then I am a feminist.

But we must admit that the feminist movement takes things too far. I am glad to live in a society where women are allowed to go to work if they want to, and where they can make money equal to their male counterparts, and attain high positions above men if they are qualified. Unfortunately, the feminist dogma has taken the idea so far that now, any woman who stays home because she wants to, and is happy to let her husband be the breadwinner, is reviled and disdained.

I think women should be allowed to do any job men do. I do not think they should feel obligated to in situations in which alternatives exist. If the husband makes enough money to support the family, why should the wife feel obligated to work? I think the feministas have missed the point of their own agenda. The purpose of the feminist movement was not to force women into all the miserable little niches men occupied just so we'd all be the same. The purpose was to let women have the choice to do what they wanted with their lives instead of having some man tell them what to do.

If the woman wants to stay at home, and nobody is hurt by the lack of a second income, then isn't it a triumph for feminism when she gets to stay home instead of being forced by society to go work?

It goes the other way, too, of course. Equal means equal. If the woman enjoys working, and makes enough to support the family, and the man would rather stay home . . . well, society has, if anything, an even harder time with that, but what business is it of theirs? It's his choice.

quote:

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First, I hate that term housewife. You're not married to the house. Why not use "homemaker" instead?

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A fishwife isn't married to a fish, either. What's your point? A housewife is a married woman (in modern English, a "wife", though a thousand years ago or so the word simply meant "woman") who spends most of her time at the house. It's a perfectly descriptive term.

Besides, no one who uses the coarse, childish term "hubby" is allowed to say what words are good and what words are bad. I have decreed it.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Whatever. In response to your housewife comment. I also hate the term fishwife. What the heck is it supposed to mean? Married to the fish? Why not just say fishmonger? It makes more sense.

The rest of what you said I happen to agree with.
 

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Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
 
D'oh! A fishwife is a lady fishmonger. It was the only example I could think of on such short notice. There aren't many words formed on that model. The only other one I could think of was "midwife", which just means "with the wife" and doesn't necessarily refer to a woman at all.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*decides she will henceforth refer to quidscribis as Goodwife Quid*
 

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Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
 
Nice. I'd applaud that as clever, but anyone sappy enough to say "hubby" would probably just answer that the term is descriptive because she is married to someone good. At which I would just roll my eyes and move on.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
*decks Verily and rivka*
*wipes blood off on their shirts*
*calmly walks away*
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*says not a word, lest she be required to get up and bar the door*
 

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Posted by just-a-min (Member # 7308) on :
 
I have three kids in school and I have plenty to do each day. But each day is different so if someone asks, "So what do you do all day?" (I usually draw a blank, but) the best answer is, "Whatever needs to get done."

Just tonight some one asked if I was in school or employed somewhere. The short answer was I just started taking a watercolor class. The long answer (that I didn't share) is my family needs me free to take care of "whatever." I also need time for me (reading, exercising, visiting Hatrack.)

I had planned to start working on going back to school when my youngest started school but then the unexpected happened. I was summoned to 4 months of Grand Jury duty, 2 days a week. I was being a productive citizen, I had no homework, and it was usually pretty interesting but it was a real sacrifice for my family.

I can go to school later. I can be come a contributing science professional later. Kids grow up and I don't want to miss being a part of the process everyday.

What I do with my day may not be important or impressive to people outside my family but it's important to my sweetheart and kids.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Welcome, just-a-min! Are you new, or is it just a new identity?

I'd love to take a water color class. Just for the heck of it. I'll have to do that sometime.
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 

quote:

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I can cook and so can any child of eight or nine.

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When you say cook, do you mean make a sandwich, or actually cook - deal with hot pans, boiling water etc?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I could cook a full meal - pots, pans, boiling water, a full meal - at five. Or four?

Not that I would recommend that - I wouldn't. That's a little young.
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
That's awfully young.

I would dispute the asserion that any eight-year-old is ready to cook a meal. I think that my kids show a remarkable predisposition to cooking, at six--they're already throwing around words like braise and sauté--but they're by no means ready to do much more than mixing or separating in the kitchen. And while I expect them to make progress, I don't expect them to be cooking meals in a year and two months.
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
I don't care for the phrase housewife myself, by the way, because it assumes a particular gender, which I think subtly assigns a value to it. As a man who has played that role, at least for a time, I rememer people's surprised and not-always-positive comments when they found out I was staying home. (I'm making somebody a great wife, and that sort of thing. )
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Icky, really? Even as I read it now, it doesn't seem that way to me. Probably PMS, or something.

As a stay-at-home-mom with a 14-year old in school all day, I'm very busy all the time. Of course, being crazy takes up most of the time, but then there's Hatrack and it's various off-shoots, computer games, boring things like laundry, grocery shopping, bill paying, cooking, cleaning, making lunches and breakfasts, taking care of the dog all day, vacuuming, dusting, doctor appointments, vet appointments, remodeling nightmares, reading, you know, general stuff.

But like I said, being crazy takes up way more time than most people think.

And I do try to avoid threads where Kat is active, I don't know why I responded here.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Icky - it is awfully young. I would never wish that on any child, and at the time, I knew it should never have worked out that way, but I had no choice. My mother was sick, and I was in kindergarten in the mornings, so I was the only one home to do any cooking, and my father, being the jerk that he was, couldn't be bothered to actually do anything to help anyone but himself. Ah, well, it's actually more complicated than that, but . . .

Edit to add: I was actually cooking, on the stove, full meals by myself and unsupervised at five. Granted, a chair was a necessary cooking tool, but still.

[ January 21, 2005, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: quidscribis ]
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with "hubby"? I don't call HIM that, but I do use it in a situation like this, where

a) not everyone knows that my husband's name is Jim,
b) I don't want to use "my husband" over and over again because it gets obnoxious, and
c) he'd REALLY despise being called Mr. Megan.

What's left?

Oh, and I agree that so far in this thread feminism is the (until recently) unmentioned bugbear. My only problem with calling it out as the source of the criticisms (which is probably true to some extent) is that doing so gives fodder for those who want to say, "See? SEE?! Feminism is RUINING OUR FAMILIES! Get those women back in the kitchen and pregnant, where they belong!"

I'm not saying that anyone here says that, mind you. I'm just saying that there are people who say that, and we don't need to give them any more fodder than they already have.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
For the record, we use Hubby and Wifey instead of names. And we like it.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 

quote:

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And I do try to avoid threads where Kat is active, I don't know why I responded here.

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Hello to the reason I no longer post in serious threads. I'm an acknowledged target of someone who can't even recognize when she is being rude or has the common courtesy to refrain from personal attacks.

[ January 21, 2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
There are times when I just don't understand people at all. This is one of those times. But no, don't clarify. I think I'd rather not know.
 

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Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
Seems to me she said she specifically avoided seeking conflicts with you, not that you were her target.
 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
Is there a problem between Kayla and Kat?

I think the whole feminism thing that Verily brought up is interesting. I've told Mr. Opera before that even though I love being at home, a feminist voice inside me is shrieking, "Breadwinner/Homemaker family model!! Ahhh!!!"

I took a sociology course on marriage and the family, and it was fascinating to watch how both institutions have evolved over time. Because of changes in work habits, etc. the 2-income model is now the most common (obviously) and pretty much everyone in the class dissed the breadwinner/homemaker model. We had to write a paper about how we envisioned our future families, and since I was the old lady of the class I wrote a paper about my daughter's future family. It's funny, because I'm very liberal in my politics and pretty forward-thinking, but in the paper I said I definately wanted either her or her husband to stay home if they had children. I mean, despite what you think of it - it makes family life easier, neh? But it seems like wanting someone to be home is considered old-fashioned.

I still don't understand why people are bothered by housewives. It's funny - you can have a job at McDonald's, and while people may think it's not the best job to have - no one out and out disapproves of it. But many people disapprove of the housewife's job. Is there something inherently valuable in working outside of the home? Does it not matter really what kind of job you do, as long as it's outside the home and you punch a clock?

space opera
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 

quote:

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Is there a problem between Kayla and Kat?

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I don't have a problem with Kayla, but Kayla dislikes me and takes pot shots regularly. I can either leave, report her, or else avoid putting of myself out here that would hurt if someone attacked. I've chosen the third. I'm starting to be annoyed by it. The first isn't going to happen.

Leave me alone, Kayla.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
"It seems acceptable to stay at home if you have small children, but not if you have older ones."

Sorry to jump in without reading the whole thread, but I wanted to comment on this.

I think many women are actually choosing to stay home when their kids are in high school, in order to be more proactive in their lives. It is a time when most kids are left on their own, yet it is the time when most get into deeper trouble. I read this somewhere, and I cannot think where, sorry.

It makes sense to me.

My husband works at night, so he has always been home with the kids. We may have less of that family-together time, which stinks, but it is a trade-off we are happy with. They know someone will always be here.

[ January 21, 2005, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
Elizabeth, I have to tell you, I really like your set up. It is hard about the all-the-family together thing, but I really like that idea for a family. I loved, loved knowing that someone was always there for us, even after I was in junior high and high school. It made for a very warm, safe environment that resulted in fearless kids. Now, I was fearless because I was an idiot and had no idea what it meant to fall and have no one there to catch me, but I think that's an okay thing for kids to feel.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
After thinking about this some more, I decided that if I was going to put my kids in school, I wouldn't get a job. I'd have, tops, five hours to do anything, anyway, and five hours really isn't that much time each day to do everything that needs to be done AND get some personal time.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
It is sad, though, how many of his friends think he has wasted his brain. "Oh, Steve is still bartending? He had such potential."
I have fallen into the trap before as well. We were having a rough time for a while, and an old friend said to me, "Can't you just think of hi as a stay-home dad?" It was an instant paradigm shift. If it was me who was staying home, would anyone question my importance(financial contribution)? I doubt it.
When I got sick, though, it became clear to a lot of people how important his role in our family works is. The kids did not bat an eye when I was not home for three weeks. So many people assumed he, being a man alone, would fall apart. He was amazing. I feel so lucky.

[ January 21, 2005, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
I've always liked everything you've said about how your house and your family works.

[ January 21, 2005, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Mrs. M, if you ever decide to give classes on being a good household manager, please let me know. Especially if you end up moving to Victoria, which isn't that far away. I could certainly use the lessons and it's clear to me you'd be a good one to learn from.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
I have to say that I am the worst housekeeper the world has ever know. I need one of those Clean House shows to come here. Steve is so annoyed when I am home in the summers. I am terrible at motivating myself without an external schedule. That is why I am better at work. For example, I should be folding Laundry mountain right now, but here I sit, sure I will miss something.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
The parade of elephants and jugglers already went through while you were asleep. I'm sorry.
 

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Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
 

quote:

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Oh, and I agree that so far in this thread feminism is the (until recently) unmentioned bugbear. My only problem with calling it out as the source of the criticisms (which is probably true to some extent) is that doing so gives fodder for those who want to say, "See? SEE?! Feminism is RUINING OUR FAMILIES! Get those women back in the kitchen and pregnant, where they belong!"

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quote:

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They have pushed into our society's collective brain the notion that women have the right to work so relentlessly that they, and much of society, have forgotten that if women are to be truly free (that is, "liberated"), then they must also have the right to not work if that is their choice.

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I don't know if society believes that anyone has the right to not work.
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
Perhaps he means "not work for money".

But everyone does have the 'right' to not work. No one can be forced to work. They even have the right to food and shelter when they don't work. It is just that we don't respect people who mooch off the system.

edit: or people who can't spell... bleah.

[ January 21, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Amka ]
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
Thanks, jeniwren. I'd be happy to help you out anytime. It helps to have mild OCD - it really helps me to get everything done right.
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
That reminds me, Mrs. M, of when we were talking in therapy once, my therapist said her housekeeper has a neurosis about dirt.

Then she says "And it's awful isn't it, that I don't want to fix her?"

She then went on to tell my husband he should hire a co-dependent secretary, because they're the best.
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
Why would she want to fix something so wonderful? Dirt does need to be eradicated before it makes everyone sick. In fact, I have to go...
 

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Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 
I used to think my wife's obsessive need to keep bills, receipts, etc. for years was very strange. This year, it's going to get us a pretty hefty sales tax deduction.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 
Yep, a friend once told me that Brian "seems to have OCD, and they can do something about that, you know". To which I responded, "Yes, but I like him this way!"
 

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Posted by just-a-min (Member # 7308) on :
 
Being at home with no kids around may be irksome to others because I think there is a drive to know what other people do. What 'do' you do?

Knowing what someone does lets people catagorize and make value judgements. Perhaps it is curiosity and a need to understand others. I know that my self image suffers when I'm injured and can't 'do' what I want to or what I am used to doing.

P.S. Thanks for the welcome. I am a newbie.
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
Verily, I didn't mean to sound like I was picking at you; I actually basically agree with what you said. I do think, however, that many, many people have had the extreme reaction to feminism that I described--that it isn't about making men and women equal (as you said), but that it's about forcing women to "end their oppression" by working outside the home. I know quite a number of people who consider themselves feminists (myself included), and not one of them believes that either men or women are in the wrong to want to want to be homemakers. I think they think it's wrong if men expect (or, worse, demand) unwilling wives to be homemakers.

Also, I've met a few women my own age who are either homemakers without kids or stay-at-home moms, something that I have absolutely no problems with. However, when we exchange greetings, there's always the same sort of odd, awkward conversation:

Her (knowing absolutely nothing about me, except that I'm married to a co-worker of her husband): "So, are you in school at IU?"
Me (knowing as much about her as she knows about me): "Yeah, I'm on the verge of finishing my PhD. Are you in school as well?"
Her (looking embarassed, or on occasion, defiant, as if I'm going to mock her or something): "No, I'm staying at home [now that we have our baby] <or> [now that Scott's a manager] etc."

When I respond to this, I am always as polite and interested as I would be regardless of the answer. I don't always have a good follow-up question (like, what are you majoring in, for school), but I have never, ever implied in any way that these women are being oppressed or should be ashamed of themselves at all. And yet, they always respond to me as if I've mocked them or belittled them.

I'm wondering if these women aren't feeling a bit on the defensive side because they're expecting that sort of reaction, even though they don't know me. Maybe they're assuming that a woman getting a PhD must be a rabid feminist and would therefore look down on anyone who's being a stay-at-home mom.

Oh, and by the way, if someone has a good follow-up question to ask a homemaker in that sort of introductory situation, I'd love to hear it. If they have children, I can ask about the kids, but otherwise, I'm never sure what to say.

edited because it's either/or, not either/and.

[ January 21, 2005, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Megan ]
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
How about "Oh, I admire women who manage households! It requires so much self-discipline I don't know how I'd do it -- how do you?"

Or "How do you like it?" or "Did you always want to be a household manager?"
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
I like what jeniwren said.

You could also say "Do you find that you have more time to focus on things you've always wanted to do? I've always thought if I could be a homemaker I'd have more time to read, but most of the ones I know are so busy they don't have as much time as they thought they would."

That gives her the opportunity to say "Yes, I have been able to get involved more in my hobby of X" or "No, I thought I would, but I'm so busy with X and X and X I just can't."
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
Thanks, jeni!

The first one, though it is true, would come out of me sounding like either empty flattery or mockery; I'm ...somewhat awkward when speaking to new people. The other two, though, I will remember and use.

I'm actually a bit surprised by the number of women my age that I've met who are homemakers/SAHMs...but I think that may have something to do with the fact that I'm still in school and still, despite being old enough to be a mother several times over, think of myself as relatively young.
 

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