I keep hearing Jatraqueros....but I don't know what that is...I have I missed something? Or am I just too stupid to catch the joke(if it is a joke)??? I would love it if someone could explain....
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Silly noobies.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hang around for long enough and you'll be one.
Patience, grasshopper.
Posted by Uhleeuh (Member # 6803) on :
You shouldn't take Bob's name in vain, SR. Posted by Grisha (Member # 6871) on :
I'm one. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Is it someone with one thousand or more posts???
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I know there's a hate-on for the term "hatrackers," but honestly, is it really that bad? I feel MUCH more like a hatracker than a jatraquera. There's just not a lot of latina in me.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
A Jatraquero is anyone who builds the Hatrack.com community.
Post count and date of first login are unimportant.
[ February 02, 2005, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Supposedly if you say it with the proper Spanish (?) pronunciation, it sounds just like Hatracker -- just a classier way of saying it. However, my foreign language skills are terrible and it never comes out sounding like that when I say it, so I just stick with Hatrackers.
Farmgirl
Posted by Brian J. Hill (Member # 5346) on :
Two compelling, totally irrefutable (yeah right ) reasons "Jatraqueros" is better than "Hatrackers."
1. It rolls off the tongue so much better. 2. Since this is OSC's virtual front porch and living room, and he has expressed a great deal of love for the Brazilian people and culture (as evidenced by much of his writing,) a Brazilian name for our comunity is more fitting. 3. Since we just changed the forum name to reflect our more international standing, our group name should reflect that. "Hatrackers" is so American. Just like poor math skills .
--Brian "Jatraquero" Hill
Posted by scottneb (Member # 676) on :
quote: Is it someone with one thousand or more posts???
Dang, looks like it'll be a few more years. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Jatraqueros is spanish (sort of) not Portuguese.
Posted by Brian J. Hill (Member # 5346) on :
Oh, well that sort of changes point two. I was under the impression that the genesis of the name was Brazilian Portugese, since OSC uses a lot of Portugese in his tales. That being said, my other two points are still valid, logical and irrefutable .
--Brian "Jatraquero-even-though-I-didn't-know-what-language-it-was-from" Hill
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
There's also the copyright issues - it allows us to use the word to refer this self-selected group of people who now have relationships that extend past this board.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
But, it doesn't "roll off my tongue" very well at all!
My Spanish pronunciation is atrocious.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Shouldn't it be trademark, Dag? "Hatrack River" doesn't seem to obviously fall under any of the copyrightable categories.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I don't think trademark would provide a lot of protection here. It's more akin to making Calvin and Hobbes T-shirts without permission than to selling a brand of soap under someone else's name.
Edit: That's not to say I wouldn't put several trademark claims in the complaint if I was representing the plaintiffs in such a case, mind you.
Dagonee
[ February 02, 2005, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Since this is OSC's virtual front porch and living room, and he has expressed a great deal of love for the Brazilian people and culture (as evidenced by much of his writing,) a Brazilian name for our comunity is more fitting.
This is why I'm a ratraquero, not a jatraquero.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
quote:WHAT IS NOT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT?
Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:
...
Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
Yes, but I'm sure any use of the word "Hatrack" by someone from this site could easily be traced back to an actual work, and more than just the word "Hatrack" would be similar.
So yes, I can use "Hatrack" all I want as a word. But if I make T-shirts that refer to the site somehow, even indirectly, I bet I could find a work for which a credible infringement case could be made.
Jatraqueros makes this far less likely.
Dagonee
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Kristine posted about this once as I recall, when we were discussing names for Kama Con and appropriate t-shirts etc. I know they preferred, that the term "Hatrack River" only be associated directly with this site, and now I guess the game, rather than having us put it on t-shirts that they had no control over.
AJ
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Even if the name can be traced back to the original work, its only if the use of the name indicates a use of the creative work that there would be infringement; that's why fanfics (likely) infringe copyright, because the world is a creative work, or the overal personalities of the characters. The names themselves are not the creative work (almost always), its just that their use often indicates the use of a creative work (such as in fanfic).
That is not true in this case.
[ February 02, 2005, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
If someone just uses "Hatrack," there's nothing the Cards could to prevent it. Trademark would not help, copyright would not help. With the kind of things people are likely to do with the word, copyright will come up more often than trademark.
Dagonee
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Lets look at the situations people would use it:
"Kiss me, I'm a Hatracker" for starters.
Clearly a trademark infringement. Where is the copyright infringement?
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
quote: Two compelling, totally irrefutable (yeah right ) reasons "Jatraqueros" is better than "Hatrackers."
1. It rolls off the tongue so much better. 2. Since this is OSC's virtual front porch and living room, and he has expressed a great deal of love for the Brazilian people and culture (as evidenced by much of his writing,) a Brazilian name for our comunity is more fitting. 3. Since we just changed the forum name to reflect our more international standing, our group name should reflect that. "Hatrackers" is so American. Just like poor math skills .
And it relfects our counting skills. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Lets look at the situations people would use it:
"Kiss me, I'm a Hatracker" for starters.
Clearly a trademark infringement. Where is the copyright infringement?
Not clearly a trademark infringement. Not at all. It's not a directly competing product, and there's little likelihood of consumer confusion at the point of sale, given the circumstances under which they were distributed. Post-sale confusion is likely not applicable here, given the scope of the trademark.
Edit: There's also no loss of consumer autonomy or unjust enrichment involved, nor loss to the trademark owner.
With nothing else on the shirt, it's not very likely a copyright violation, either. But the possibilities exist more in this doctrine than in trademark.
Dagonee
[ February 02, 2005, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Does anyone think the Cards are actually going to take us to court over a t-shirt that says "Kiss me, I'm a Hatracker"? No. But if they have expressed a preference that we use some other term so the word stays directly associated with the site, is it polite to comply? Yes. Hence, "Kiss me, I'm a Jatraquera". Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Exactly, KQ. It's a respect thing. But the respect is for OSC based on what he's created - hence my preference to see it as copyright over trademark.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Dags what about "Hatrack Con"? That was what we were going to call it before "Kama Con". Honestly Kama Con rolls off the tounge better, but Hatrack Con would have been probably more accurate.
I can't remember where the thread is where we discussed nor do I care to wrestle with the search function. Maybe it was a private e-mail to me that Kristine mentioned it. I don't remember what I ate for lunch yesterday, so my memory is hazy on this.
AJ
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Actually, something interesting: the Cards routinely use Hatrack River as a noun all over the site; plus, its been a while. I'm not sure it would hold up as a trademark in court.
I don't see how you'd show the presence of any creative work just from the word "Hatrackers", though, or any of the ways the shirt would be marketed or used, Do you have any case law to back you up?
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
How many people are there out there who don't know how to pronounce Jatraquero?
In case there's even one, it's Hat-rac-KEH-ro.
[ February 02, 2005, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Brinestone ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I haven't yet given in to the temptation to report this thread to get an answer from Kathryn or Kristine's perspective.
But I am tempted
AJ
[ February 02, 2005, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Really? I've always pronounced it "Haht-rah-KERR-o".
[ February 02, 2005, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: ketchupqueen ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I wonder if the upcoming Hatrack video RPG game will change the status of the word.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
To elaborate: the use of Hatracker in a way intended to show association with the site Hatrack (edit: as it was) could certainly dilute the efficacy of the Hatrack mark (assuming it is a mark). For instance, if someone wearing such a shirt did something which would be embarassing/misrepresentational of OSC's position.
But I see no connection to a creative work (edit: by OSC) that includes "Hatrack".
edit to restate last line: But I see no use of a creative work by OSC (that presumably uses "Hatrack").
[ February 02, 2005, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
If it is indeed meant to be Spanish, then Jatraquero ought to be pronounced hat-rah-KHE-ro, neh?
Any opinion from our native Spanish speakers?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I'm not a native speaker, but that's how I pronounce it.
edit: actually, I'm not sure I know exactly what you meant in your pronunciation, so it very well might be different.
[ February 02, 2005, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
Without an accent mark the emphasis would be on the second to last sylable (sp?) in spanish, but it's supposed to portuguese so I don't know what it would be. But it's too much work to put in an accent mark every time any way.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
rivka, it took me about 4 tries to write out how I pronounce it, but yes, that's how I pronounce it. Except I roll the "r" a little.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Well is a website a creative work? Cause this is certainly www.hatrack.com
AJ
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
DOH!
Yeah, I meant to say the emphasis is on care. Actually, I agree that KAY-ro is closer than care-o. Above post will be modified accordingly.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I don't see how you'd show the presence of any creative work just from the word "Hatrackers", though, or any of the ways the shirt would be marketed or used, Do you have any case law to back you up?
No, that's why that shirt isn't likely a violation. But I can see changes to the shirt that would make it more likely to be a copyright infringemnt; I can't imagine any changes that make it trademark infringement.
quote: the use of Hatracker in a way intended to show association with the site Hatrack (edit: as it was) could certainly dilute the efficacy of the Hatrack mark (assuming it is a mark).
The mark on a T-shirt isn't competing w/ a product of OSC. I doubt a merchandising rights case could be made here.
quote:For instance, if someone wearing such a shirt did something which would be embarassing/misrepresentational of OSC's position.
That's not really a trademark issue. Misconduct while pretending to be a representative of OSC via use of the mark might be, but there's no reasonable suggestion of agency from wearing such a T-shirt - not in today's society.
Dagonee
[ February 02, 2005, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Copying the site would be a clear infringement. Putting a picture or recreation of the site on a t-shirt would very probably be an infringement.
Dagonee
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
So what must you do to be considered a Jatraquero? Is there some sort of test where you walk across lava?
[ February 02, 2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: SteveRogers ]
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
*giggles*
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Or do you become a Jatraquero after you write your first landmark??? If so I am getting close.....
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Steve, you become one by wanting to be one. By considering yourself an active member of the community. There are no hard and fast rules, and it has nothing to do with postcount.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
That would make sense... For me the Landmark was a goal, but also just knowing who people are, respecting friendly debate, and knowing the rules of the communtiy are what make you a true Jatraquero.
[or as Eljay said...active member of the community, no set in stone rules]
[ February 02, 2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Well if thats true then I suppose the whole time I was asking what a Jatraquero was I was one......thats cool........or are you just tricking me and I really do have to walk across that lava after all? Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
If you really feel the need for a rite of passage, I'd be happy to make one up for you.
(Warning: You'll want to say no on this one.)
[ February 02, 2005, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Go for it......I'll walk over lava if I have to
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Don't be silly. I'm going to give you a research/writing project.
Lemmee think about it and I'll post it later tonight.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Oh don't make it too hard......I have a massive headache......and probably won't be on again until tomorrow.....I have a ton of Algebra homework.....
[ February 02, 2005, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: SteveRogers ]
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I will take that into consideration. But no worries about the workload... there's no due date.
Especially since the whole point of the thing is to declare you a Jatraquero, which I have no authority to do anyway. But I'll try to construct the project in such a way that you'll feel like one when you're done.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
ElJay, I have some suggestions of things to include, if you want.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Sounds good *runs off to his corner and quivers in fear* Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
rivka, that sounds fabulous. I've got a draft list, but I'd love the imput. I'll e-mail you when I get home, or you can just use my hotmail account if you want to send something now. It's eljay at hotmail dot com.
Steve, I did tell you you should say no. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I am just not good at saying n.... that word.....but anyway when will I find out what my assignment is??
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I'm at work now, Steve, and I just check in in little bursts between doing things. I want to give your project the thought and consideration it deserves, so I'll post it after I get home tonight... and after I consult with rivka. And anyone else who has suggestions, of course.
Edit: Oh, and remember that the first time you said "yes" to me you got more than you bargined for. Maybe you should consider me a good person to practice saying "no" too. It's a skill that will undoubtably benefit you later in life.
[ February 02, 2005, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
And how late will that be? If it is later then 8 o' clock I won't see it until tomorrow....my parents won't let me on the computer past 8(central time in the U.S.) on a weekday
Edit: It wasn't more than I bargained for....I was hoping someone would give some decent advice and explain to me the system....and I thank you for being brave enough to do it.......now I am not such a noob....if at all
[ February 02, 2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: SteveRogers ]
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
You probably won't see it until tomorrow, then. I'm in central as well, and I work 'til 7 and then it takes about 30 minutes to get home. But that's fine... rites of passage should have some build-up. *nodnod*
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I see you forgot to tell me what my assignment is........don't forget again.....I would like to get started on it so it can be in my landmark.........I'm getting kind of close....I mean because I plan to do a 500 landmark....
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I didn't forget, actually, I left my notes at work. But rivka e-mailed me some excellent suggestions this morning, and I'll put them together with my stuff when I get home tonight, and you can do it over the weekend.
Sorry for the delay...
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: Shabbatraqueros - those who don't post between Friday sundown and Saturday sundown.
That's me. Although, it's Saturday starsout, not sundown.
Cheers,
JH
P.S. Am I officially a Jatraquero?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
You can do the rite of passage along with SteveRogers when I post it if it will make you feel better. Otherwise, same answer. If you consider yourself a part of the community, you're a jatraquero.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Jatraquero - Spanish-like.
If the word was derived from Portuguese, it would be like "Ratraqueiro".
"J" sounds like "H" in Spanish, not in Portuguese.
Words ended in "-ero" are much more common in Spanish than in Portuguese. We use the sufix "-eiro". Note, for example, that Porter's nickname is "Porteiro", not "Portero".
Not that I dislike "Jatraquero". I find it rather cool.
[ February 03, 2005, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Eduardo_Sauron ]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
You have to have a member number below 1000 to be allowed to offciate at the rite of passage of a newbie to a full time member.
Hobbes Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quote: Especially since the whole point of the thing is to declare you a Jatraquero, which I have no authority to do anyway.
I acknowledged that, Hobbes . You wanna take over, since you're official? Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
So, Hobbes, you make up a rule that gives a limited amount of people the absolute unvetoable authority, and this authority's legitimacy is determined not by democratic votes for one to become an authentic entity, but rather your own despotic arrogance?
You're evil. I like that!
JH
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Hobbes, you missed the meeting where we decided to move from member number to post count as the defining criteria. You've been demoted to peon.
Now get me a cup of coffee!
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Thanks, Dagonee!
But now, my post is obsolete. Oh, heck, at least the extra PostCount.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Even going by post count, I don't think Hobbes qualifies as a peon. Now, if you went by post frequency, obviously, Dag would be the high king of Hatrack...
Which is why we won't be going to post frequency anytime soon. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Does this change anything??? Is EJ still the one giving me my assignment or is it Hobbes?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I think Hobbes was just kidding, SR. Unless he steps up and volunteers before I get home tonight, I will give you what rivka & I came up with. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Ok...*wipes brow and sighs* I was all set to do your impossible task.........I didn't want another to try his hand at it
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Oh, it won't be impossible. Just... maybe... challenging. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Did you guys decide on the thing with thing? I hope you checked with CT to make sure the rumors about possible scarring aren't true.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Dags, the guy was willing to walk on lava, I don't think you're gonna scare him that way.
How I was supposed to get lava to Missouri I'm not sure. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
That is what planes are for........you dressed as a sensei.........could meet me.......in Hawaii....and then you can witness me walking across lava.........but I'm pretty sure I will like this more than walking across lava Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I walked across lava several times while I was in Hawaii last week.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I think he meant more this or this than this.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I think it needs to be liquid hot mag-ma.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
But did he specify? No, he did not. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
A point you have.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Right on the top of my head.
Check your e-mail, pretty please.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
But rivka e-mailed me some excellent suggestions this morning, and I'll put them together with my stuff when I get home tonight, and you can do it over the weekend. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)