This article was very interesting to me and I wanted to share it. The upshot is that some scientists think that Neanderthals, a distant relative of humans, may have co-existed with and mated with modern humans in Europe in the very old days. It's also an insight into how slippery the idea of evolution can become.
My favorite part of this article is the carefully posed question: "Is there any evidence that Europeans today carry some Neanderthal genes?"
I'm not touching that one with a ten foot pole.
Best Regards,
Bunbun
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
I'm sure any European answer to that question will result in a discussion on the migratory nature of Neanderthal's and the idea that if there were any European Neanderthal genes, they emigrated to America.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I thought they were all in the Neanderlands.
Or are you saying they are really Meanderthals?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:"Is there any evidence that Europeans today carry some Neanderthal genes?"
*shocked at the suggestion of such sceanderlous behavior*
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
More importantly, how will the Europeans react? Do you think the fuss'll interfere will make them cave on important issues?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Dag,
It's just a matter of time. The drawing's on the wall.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
It does explain those flinty upper crust Europeans.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Dag,
I think you should be more magnonimous, or you might end up eating cro.
("eating cro" AKA "hominid grits")
Posted by John Van Pelt (Member # 5767) on :
All you guys... can't take anything seriously.
Thanks, bunny, for the missing link.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Are you telling me to Chauvet?
Posted by John Van Pelt (Member # 5767) on :
Lascaux, let's take it outside.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Displays of homo erectusic art!
*shocked*
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Click here to see my response.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Click where????
*another missing link - either a mistake or the subtlest pun encountered on this board in many a month*
[ February 15, 2005, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
::shakes crude chipped-flint implement on a stick in Dag's direction::
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I wouldn't make a habilis of that, just because I made a monkey of you.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
John, Dag, no need to fight. You guys should calm down, take a Piltdown--I mean a Miltown
Bunbun, this lice genetics study came out recently: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041005075751.htm It claims that lice genetics show that h. sapiens and other extinct hominids, including Neanderthals, interacted (fought? mated? lived in the same communities?) as recently as 25,000 years ago.
I posted it in the "I wonder if they had unusually hairy feet?" thread, which was about the recently unearthed "hobbits" found in Indonesia.
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
As an European, i am not shocked by the idea of having some Néanderthal genes, but i am not sure it can be. Becaus we have more difference in the genetic code than with the chimpanze. So, union between male and female af this two species is certainly sterile.
Don't forget Néanderthal is not the only contemporary man of Homo sapiens sapiens. There is also the Pekin's man for exemple.
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
Cool, Morbo. Thanks for the link. I've been used to thinking about evolution in terms of those nicely organized charts. The lice study paints a much more interesting picture, doesn't it?
Honestly, though, I've been stunned at the level of vitroll this thread has inspired. My husband, Dagonee, a very laid back dude, has been told to Chauvet. The artefact is that I didn't mean for any one to get afarensis about it, but it appears I've caused a rift.
Mea culpa.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
bunbun
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
Yay! Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Well Auel be damned! I guess Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens can...
Oh never mind.
[ February 15, 2005, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
Clan you believe it?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Neanderthals: The punultimate step in human evolution!
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
Choobak, it's worth keeping in mind that not all gene sequences have any phenotypic expression. A great deal of DNA appears to have no specific use. Hypothetically, one could imagine two beings whose "junk DNA" was entirely different, leading to a vast difference between their two genetic codes--yet all their expressed DNA was the same.
Also, I should point out (at the risk of saying something squicky) that we do not really know for certain that we can't interbreed with chimps. (To the best of my knowledge of current research.) Unsurprisingly, few experiments along these lines have been performed.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
But chimpanzees have a different number of chromosomes than humans, 48 to our 46. I don't believe cross-breeding would be possible without genetic manipulation.
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
quote:we do not really know for certain that we can't interbreed with chimps.
Oh, believe me. I know.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
I would think you are right, Rivka....nonetheless I recall seeing articles somewhere about cross-fertilization. Regrettably I do not remember where or how old they were.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Bun-bun, cute story on your homepage of meeting and courting Dag. Or vice-versa. I think a lot of junk DNA has undiscovered purpose. Labeling it junk just means we haven't discovered the meaning yet.
[ February 15, 2005, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Human sperm can fertilize hamster eggs too. Fertilization merely requires compatible enzymes, I think. (BtL?)
It's whether there is continued viability -- even to the early blastocyst stages -- that I doubt.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The one on the front page is my sister and her fiance. This one is ours. I couldn't tell which one you looked at.
Dagonee
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
*nod* I'm aware of that, rivka. Perhaps "fertilization studies" was not the right term to use. I recall only that the articles were on the possibility of human-chimp interbreeding, and that I think they were relatively recent and in favor (in the sense of it being possible, of course--not desirable).
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
Dagonee was remarkably cooperative, I must say, and lucky for me!
The Haussler article is relatively recent, though. I think UCSC's taken concrete steps towards getting past the idea that non-protein generating sequences automatically means "junk." I've been working as a contract manager for a research organization, and the Haussler article was a really big deal this past spring.
[ February 15, 2005, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: bunbun ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
>_<
The last two posts just should not be adjacent.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
That has got to be one of the funniest things I have seen on the web..... Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
Owie--
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:The last two posts just should not be adjacent.
Kwea, what were you referring to as the funniest - there's a lot of candidates in the last few posts. Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
from the article
quote: the dwindling Neanderthal population was replaced forever by the intruding modern humans.
No, they just moved to England that's all.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Dag, you're right, I saw your sister's page. Your's is cool too though
quote: After several emails from Rob that convinced Eve that Rob was clueless, Eve sent an Explicit Email
My kinda girl.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Must... answer... question... sleep... later...
The Zona Pellucida is a protein that coats egg cells and prevents sperm from another species from penetrating and donating their DNA to initiate meiosis (While ZP1, ZP2 and ZP3 classes of proteins are common to all mammals, the specific structures are species dependent). This can, however, be removed chemically and then it's open season on egg fertilization, come hamsters, humans, or what have you. Hamster eggs are most often used because they're both well studied and easily harvested. Whether they're easily harvested because they're well studied or vice versa I don't know.
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bunbun
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