It may be blasphemy to talk about other authors here I don't know. So if it is please inform me but when it first came out awhile ago I ran out and read The Dark Tower-the final book in the series of the same name by Stephen King and I know no one who has read them all and I need somepeople to bounce ideas off of. *SPOILERS* . . . .
1. Did any one else find the fact that when they died all of Roland's "children", ed, oy, susan, jake, forgot him? I wasn't even so sad when they died because I thought they would go to the clearing at the end of the path and be happy there. Many believe that their memories live on in what they teach there children and I found it sad to think they all forgot Roland.
2. What exacty do you think was the crime that Roland was forced to attone for. Was it letting his original group die? Was it his willingness to sacrifice anyone to reach the tower? Was it his willingness to kill? Killing his own mother perhaps? I just don't know.
3. What did him getting the horn in the new quest have to do with anything? What did the horn symobilize?
4. Was the tower still at risk in the new quest? Did him being back in the desert restart everything? As in is the Crimson King back and are the breakers back to their breaking? This confuses me because one of the universal constants was that time only moved one way in the main worlds. So did time itself rewind or did Roland just get put back in the desert with his memory erased?
If you have read the Dark Tower series I would love to hear your thoughts. -Penguin
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
1. It was certainly a bittersweet ending.
2. I don't really know. I might guess that it has something to do with losing the horn.
3. Roland was supposed to blow the horn once he reached the Dark Tower, but he lost it in the same battle where Cuthbert and Alain were killed. I believe that now that he has the horn this could be the last time he runs through his quest.
4. I take it to mean that everything is repeating itself, but that Roland has a chance to fix things this time.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Yep. Basically, the whole horn thing is a cop-out. King wasn't sure how to end it, and the endless cycle was the only obvious narrative solution, but he wanted to give his fans some sense that the whole friggin' series -- and the deaths of all those beloved characters -- wasn't for nothing (or, at least, was for more than just the enjoyment of the journey itself), so the horn is included to give you some hypothetical sense of progess.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
1. I think that Eddie and Jake Toren (at the end) were Twinners (a la Talisman) of Eddie Dean and Jake Chambers, so I don't think that they ever really knew Roland to have forgotten him. Susannah did cross over from the anchor world, though, and I believe that she will remember, at least for a while. But I think that as time progresses, the memories will fade for her as well, perhaps with occasional break-out moments like Roland had throughout the series (the feelings that something was familiar)
2. Personally, I think it has to do with his obsession to reach the Tower in the first place. If I remember correctly, it was his experience in Mejis (W&G) and exposure to the ball from Maerlyn's Rainbow that more or less set him on his path. What kind of life would he had led if he had forsaken the Tower back as a teenager? Of course we'll never know since the loop takes him back to a time where he's beyond making that original decision, although Walter does give him another chance to renounce his quest when they alaver in the mountains. And maybe that will be the key to breaking out of the loop. Maybe the loop is King's way of saying that the Tower truly is unattainable.
3. I think this was one of the many references to Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came, the poem that was one of King's original nuggets of inspiration for the series. There were a couple references to Roland blowing the Horn of Eld at the Battle of Jericho (which obviously didn't happen since he lost it) and at the base of the Tower. I suspect that even though Roland has the horn at Jericho the second (or third or maybe even 19th) time around, he'll manage to lose it somewhere else along the way.
4. I don't honestly think that there will be any significant changes in the progression of events on this loop. I also don't think that Roland's memory is erased, per se. As I mentioned earlier, he had periodic sensations that the current situation was familiar somehow, sort of a deja vu thing. Part of me keeps hooking up on the whole Twinner concept and wondering if perhaps the Roland at Jericho on the last couple pages of #7 is a different Roland entirely, a Twinner, than the one who starts out the series. And instead of drawing Eddie Dean the heroin junkie, maybe he'll draw Ernest Devereaux the gambling addict. Maybe the Tower is Pisa and the desert is the Sahara. Too many potential variables there. =)
Posted by TheSeeingHand (Member # 8349) on :
1. They didn't forget him because they weren't the same Eddie and Jake. They lived in a parallel world and never met Roland.
2. I think it was killing everyone he loved in order to reach the tower.
3. I think he needed it to complete the quest but he didn't have it so he needed to start over? I don't know.
4. Well, since the Man in Black died and he's chasing him again, I'm guessing he went back in time and be as he was at that point in time (memory, age, both guns, not to mention all ten fingers)
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I actually saw the repetition of the quest to be a thing coming - ka is a wheel, after all. But before it, the last third of the book was just kinda... weak. I don't consider it a cop out, thought.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
I think Goody did a great job explaining her ideas. I'll just say, "me too"!
And Goody-"Part of me keeps hooking up on the whole Twinner concept and wondering if perhaps the Roland at Jericho on the last couple pages of #7 is a different Roland entirely, a Twinner, than the one who starts out the series. And instead of drawing Eddie Dean the heroin junkie, maybe he'll draw Ernest Devereaux the gambling addict. Maybe the Tower is Pisa and the desert is the Sahara. Too many potential variables there. =)"
Good one! I think that''s a real possibility! Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Goody is a serious King junkie.... Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
As am I. Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
have you joined SKEMERsyet?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Check out the last line of the poem "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came".
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
Goody-yes Lisa - yes, cool!
Posted by Leaf (Member # 7880) on :
FINALLY!!!!.....
- Well, do you really want them to remember?? I think it was mentioned several times that their time with Roland would be hard. Sure it cured them of the demons, and briefley there was a sense of a close family, but other than that, they killed many people, were confronted with monstrous enemies, and watched each other die (some of them.) So maybe it's a blessing that either a; they don't remember, or b; they really are the twins of eddie and jake. (I haven't thought much on the idea of twinners, so i don't have much to offer up in the way of opinions)
- I believe that (as mentioned above) it was Roland's complete obsession with not just saving the tower, but getting there and seeing the top, and his *initial ( and many year long) complete disreguard for humanity. Perhaps it was also letting Jake die the first time, no matter what it gained him with the man in black.
The horn was everything. Don't you see that? It was Arthur Eld's. Along with his guns from excalibur, you have to have everything... the complete set not to be put back in the begining. And OBVIOUSLY his memory is erased because if it wasn't he would have brought the horn earlier, and wouldn't have been as fascinated when he got to the tower. Because you know (I think) that he's been there many times before. That's why he didn't know excatly what it meant to have the horn, but it did feel... right... and better somehow.
I think he went back in time, not just back to the desert but everything else was the same. The person at the top of the Tower is supposed to be GOD right? (Gan) So he would have to power to do that I think. So the tower went back to the condition it was in when he was in the desert the last time when we first started reading.
So as you can see I am definately a Tower junkie... and would love to continue any discussions about this lovely series. Also, I must defend 'the last 1/3 of the book.' It was FANTASTIC. The white lands of empathica!!! Patrick Danville!!!! How could you not love this part. It felt like it sped up, like everything was running fast toward the end of the world. The setting in the last part of book 7 had such an empty and apocalyptic feel to it, I thought it was brilliant, and for me, (as a writer *aspiring) very very inspiring. The empty CK castle? The ruins of old monuments along the road?....... pppfffff.... Whatever people, that was the best part of the series I would have to say.
Anyways. There you have it. 19
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Also, I must defend 'the last 1/3 of the book.' It was FANTASTIC. The white lands of empathica!!! Patrick Danville!!!!
Okay, it's a well-known fact that the use of multiple exclamation marks is a sign of a diseased mind. I need say no more.
quote: It felt like it sped up, like everything was running fast toward the end of the world.
I think the word you're looking for is "rushed."
quote: Whatever people, that was the best part of the series I would have to say.
*points back to the exclamation marks* Diseased mind.
Posted by Leaf (Member # 7880) on :
Oh lourdy lou.... Your going 2 B sooo!!!!! teck nickel............
Wow, well, I forgive you. I loved that book more than almost any other book. I remember when I bought it I was just SMILING.... It felt like I had won or something. I DID IT!!! I'M THE WINNER! I MADE IT ALIVE TO THE FINAL BOOK WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
C'mon. Just be happy for me Tommy Davidson. Look how happy I am.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The end of the book made the whole thing seem like a bad quest in EQ.
Posted by Leaf (Member # 7880) on :
EQ? What's that??
I was hoping for a huge shoot out with the CK and Walter (Or whoever he is)... that would've been cool yes... But I thought it was great so....
[ September 04, 2005, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Leaf ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Just be happy for me Tommy Davidson.
Had you not called me "Tommy," I would have been.
Posted by Leaf (Member # 7880) on :
-u
- me
It's all right though, this isn't about us... its about the DT.
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