I've been accused of some sort of fraudulent activity with some other woman's social security number. I have to go to Michigan to give a statement about that this afternoon. O_O It doesn't make any sense to me but some woman claims she has bad credit because of some unpaid phone bills of mine. Except I don't HAVE any unpaid phone bills.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
you'll get it sorted out.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Yuck! Good luck, Theca.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Theca, I'm sure you will straighten it out in no time. Sounds like she might be making things up to get out of something. (?)
Good luck for a speedy resolution! Keep us updated.
(And completely off-topic, was anyone else befuddled why Sheriff would be calling Theca? I didn't realize they were still together.)
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Does she have the same name as you? or a similar SSN? I'm intrigued about the exact nature of the misunderstanding. (I work for a major credit card company, so identity theft and the like are always hot topics. NOTE: I'm not implying identity theft in the least. I hope everything works out well for you Theca. )
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
It surely can't be a coincidence that she lives less than 30 minutes away from me. Although I do wonder if there is a third party involved, someone using my name and her social security number to get away with things.
(KarlEd, we didn't talk SSN on the telephone but when I take my SS card in this afternoon hopefully things will be clearer.)
[ March 29, 2005, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
This isn't going to be one of those horror stories where you never come back to Hatrack and we get worried and start making some calls and discover that not only did you never arrive in Michigan, no one has any record of any of this happening, so then one of us has to go physically check it out and they disappear too and then we have to try and convince the authorities that something up but they wont believe us while in the meantime we're getting picked off one by one, is it?
Seriously though, I hope it goes well! Probably you can just say: "nope, that ain't me" and then the sheriff will look into it and say "yep, that ain't her" and that'll be it.
Hobbes Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Identity theft is huge...HUGE..right now.
My guess is that you both are victims, as you said.
Farmgirl
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
While I hope it's not the case, I'm betting this will be an awful, horrible mess to straighten out. Good luck!
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
GreNME.com has an article on identity theft. you might check it out, even though it may not apply in this particulat matter.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I hope this gets straightened out quickly. It's possible all the ID theft was from this lady, and you were the "patsy" set up to distract the police. In which case, it might be pretty easy to straighten out for you.
If you feel uncomfortable, don't hesitate to get a lawyer. If they accuse you at all, get one.
Also, you should probably pull all 3 of your credit reports, too.
Good luck!
Dagonee
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I was thinking about the credit reports, too, Dag. As luck would have it, I just applied for a "luxury apartment" three weeks ago and they did a big credit check and I passed. I wondered if that ought to be good enough?
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Wow.... good luck.
Funny story this reminded me of. Sheriff came over to my house once to straighten out a mix up in registration stickers the first thing that came to my head was a song:
Soooo. The sheriff thinks I'm guilty of stealing this woman's identity and linking it with mine in such a way that the bills went to a third address in the area, or possibly to mine, and since her SSN was on the bill the collectors have been going after her and her credit is terrible. So now he has decided he has enough info to send his report to the prosecutor's office to see if they think there is enough evidence to arrest me of the felony of identity theft. He is "98%" sure I'm guilty.
He expects by the time that the paperwork is done the warrant for my arrest will be ready in 1-3 weeks time.
Me saying my credit looks perfect (and SHOWING him) and insisting I pay all my bills didn't get me anywhere. Apparently she has bad credit for at&t, sbc, AND MCI.
I'm...devastated. How to prove I didn't do it before I get arrested. Getting a lawyer in the morning.
[ March 29, 2005, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
He's trying to scare you. Get a lawyer now.
Does he have any sort of proof at all?
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
this is really odd. Did he say why in the world he thought it was you who did it?
Regardless...as others have said, you really need a laywer now. You don't have a choice in the matter...when the sheriff starts talking like that, you need a lawyer to make sure they don't screw you over.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yes, get a lawyer, preferably a local one with a technical/identity theft background. Ask around with friends, or talk to your local bar association. The lawyer'll know best, but one thing you'll be able to do is request of the police that all communication go through your lawyer, which will eliminate your exposure to the bullying.
Oh, and keep notes of what the police say/do with regards to you, that way if they go too far, you can sue (really, they're already going too far by basically forcing you to get a lawyer to avoid strongarm tactics by an idiot cop, but I doubt you'd get much money from that).
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Everyone has offered you good advice. Hoping for the best for you. Hang in there.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh, yikes! we are all so afraid of identity theft, who thought we should be afraid of ourselves being accused!
Theca, good luck. He sounds like a bully.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
He sounds like an idiot who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and is either a complete incompetent for taking the complaining witness at her word with little or no investigation or he's got a personal stake in this somewhere.
Good luck.
-Trevor
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Ouch, you really don't need this right now. Or ever, really, but the timing with your move must be extra stressful.
Hopefully the sheriff was bluffing, but you're right to get a lawyer right away. Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Silly question - how in the frag did this woman come up with your name and number?
-Trevor
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
Good luck theca, hope everything gets sorted out.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Good advice. Get a lawyer, and listen to her. Don't talk to the police without her there. If you are not charged or in custody, the police (but probably not the prosecutor) can speak to you without your lawyer, and it will likely be admissible. So just don't do it.
You can't tell them anything that will help.
If the situation arises where you can tell them something that will help, your lawyer will tell you.
Also, you should stop posting anything specific here. You don't need to delete anything, but from now on give generic updates or requests for support. You can disclose process-oriented milestones (they sent this to the prosecutor), but nothing about the merits.
The police are no longer your friend. I hope I'm not scaring you, but I'd rather you be too cautious than not cautious enough.
Above all, listen to your lawyer.
Praying for you.
Dagonee
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
(((((Theca))))) Good luck! Get a lawyer soon.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Good grief. This is ridiculous.
And of course, Dag gives great advice. Be careful.
Let me know if there is anything I can do.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
OK, I'm convinced that if anything terrible happens in my life, I'm posting it on Hatrack first.
(((Theca)))
and
~~~Theca~~~
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I'm getting fairly good news from all three companies that the sheriff listed, and the CEO of the large clinic I work for recomended a lawyer so I'll call in the morning. I think I'm in pretty good shape. The main thing I'm trying to protect is my reputation, which is very, very important in my field.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Good on the news, and the lawyer recommendation. Your reputation is exactly what I was thinking of... if it was me, unless I was actually jailed for a significant period of time, it would not affect my ability to find employement, I don't think. Different for you.
~~~~~Theca~~~~~
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Much good advice has been given. I'm glad you have a referral already.
Sucks that you have to deal with this, especially right now.
(((((Theca)))))
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Oh crap. How horrible.
Good luck Theca - I'm sure that with a lawyer on side you can get it all sorted out.
*Good wishes your way*
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Good luck, Theca!
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
We all believe you're innocent, and I'm sure that the cops will know it soon too. Go get 'em, Theca!
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
Theca... I hope things go well for you tomorrow. You've got some great advice here and know that we support you all the way.
{{{{Theca}}}}
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
quote: Good grief. This is ridiculous.
I agree.
Good luck!
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
O_O
(((((Theca)))))
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
quote:Also, you should stop posting anything specific here. You don't need to delete anything, but from now on give generic updates or requests for support. You can disclose process-oriented milestones (they sent this to the prosecutor), but nothing about the merits.
This advice from Dags is so important I think it bears repeating. You don't want to accidentally waive attorney client privilege by posting anything you discuss with your attorney. I've never seen a case where privilege is waived via internet postings, but it is not impossible.
Modern discovery methods can retrieve all sorts of cached text from your computer. If you are accused of identity theft, it is possible for the prosecutor to ransack your computer for all sorts of information. Good luck and be careful.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Theca,
Call the credit bureaus (all 3) in the morning and put a fraud alert in your credit report. Anyone company approving new credit in your name will have to contact you personally and verify that you are who you say you are.
If you are applying for credit at this time, alert those companies to the fraud alert that you have placed on your credit history so they know that you have done this.
And get a lawyer. Local is a good idea because, frankly, they are going to have to battle the sheriff and it's better if they know the ins and outs of that office.
In particular, I'm betting that your local sheriff doesn't have much real experience or expertise in dealing with identity theft. A lawyer may be able to block your arrest in the first place if they can show that the evidence is weak or developed without any real expertise. (I'm hoping...)
Especially if they know the prosecutor and the sheriff.
Dag, if Theca is falsely accused, can she sue?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Good luck Theca. I'm glad that you're getting a good lawyer. When I'm going through something really unplesant and stressful, it helps me to think "this will pass. There are only a certain number of units in time during which this will be my present, and they're slipping by as I'm thinking this. Pretty soon this will be something that happened, rather than something that is happening, and at least I'll get a good story out of it." I don't know if that helps you at all, but I hope it does.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Theca I'm so sorry and I hope this gets cleared up ASAP. That sheriff sounds like a jerk.
98% sure she's guilty. He doesn't really know our Theca.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah Belle, I also felt a wave of indignation and anger wash over me when I read the details Theca posted tonight. I wish I could do something to help.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Good luck Theca. If you need anyone to vouch for your character...I don't know if we would count, but there are at least 50 of us. *hugs*
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
This is awful on several levels, Theca.
It's possible the sherrif was trying to shock a confession out of you. We know you're innocent but he doesn't--yet.
I hope the attorney doesn't cost too much.
You and your attorney will blow this hick sherrif out of the water in court, I'm sure. Hopefully, you'll never even be formally charged.
Best of luck!--Alan ((Theca))
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
Dagonee is totally correct about the lawyer, as well as keeping your mouth shut when the cops question you. "Sir, I apologize but I want to speak with my lawyer," or similar helped me, and I suspect I had more evidence against me than you do. No matter how agravated you get, always be polite to the police. Being polite may or may not be incentive enough for the cop to speak in your favor, but it will never hurt.
Also, the cop is never your friend. If he wants to help, he can help in court. If he wants to f*ck you, he will do so in court, and use any legally admissible evidence you provided out of court to do so.
In conclusion, get a lawyer, because they are awesome.
[ March 30, 2005, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Danzig ]
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Theca. Hang in there.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
((Theca))
Good luck!
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Dag, if Theca is falsely accused, can she sue?
It's hard to sue the police. Very, very hard. And that's not a bad think in and of itself unless we're talking consitutional violations. They have to feel free to investigate.
This woman, on the other hand, is fair game if it turns out she's involved.
Once the criminal charges are sorted out, Theca's lawyer will have a good understanding of what sort of recovery might be possible.
Dagonee
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Sheriffs are a weird duck, though. I mean, it's an elected position in most communities. Theoretically, at least, it's possible to be elected sheriff without actually having any law enforcement background, isn't it?
In practice, sheriffs seem to operate with a lot more autonomy than other local law enforcement types.
If they go around violating the law at the very least they should be held accountable by some sort of review board. So I suppose there should be a way to lodge a formal complaint somewhere. In this country, tort liability seems to be the only way to get people's attention, though. If he suddenly found himself facing a huge lawsuit for falsely accusing someone or for ham-fisted investigation techniques or something...
Hmm...
At the very least, Theca should be able to recover the legal fees she pays to prove her innocence.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I'm thinking...
1) Either the sheriff is NOT very educated in the current trend in social security # theft (didn't we have a whole thread on that?) and identity theft
or
2) He's bluffing, trying to see if playing bad-ass will make someone break into confession.
or
3) or I've just lost my faith in the integrity of this particular police department where you are.
I stand by my belief that it will be proven you are both victims. Look up on the web about social security # theft -- it is a huge problem - often illegals trying to work using someone else' social security #, etc.
Somehow, you got caught in the middle of all this, but you should be able to prove it easily in court. THe problem is -- all that money you have to spend for legal fees just to prove yourself innocent. That is one part of our legal system I really disagree with.
Farmgirl
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Actually, I have seen a number of sherriffs without any meaningful law enforcement experience in elected positions. It's not unlike any elected office in that respect.
My theory that this dip is a dip comes from a one-sided, half-arsed investigation and a "Well, I'm 98% sure you're guilty" line.
[ March 30, 2005, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
She's accusing me of HIPAA violations too now so that takes it to a medical level. That hadn't even occurred to me. This really beginning to scare me again. Lawyer is onboard, anyway.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I have succumbed to a hatred of this woman.
Theca, I hope your lawyer is now fielding any and all contacts about this matter. You shouldn't even have to think about it.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
This definitely sounds fishy. Was she a former patient or something? I mean, how would HIPAA apply otherwise? (don't answer that, I see Dag's admonition against it)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
What the...
Do you know this woman at all? Can you think of any reason why she might have it out for you?
[Edit--Tick beat me to it. And like him, I wouldn't actually want you to post an answer to my question. I'm interested in hearing the full story after all of this is resolved though]
[ March 30, 2005, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Lets just say I work at a very large clinic with 70+ doctors and thousands and thousands of patients and our systems are computerized. Funny, the sheriff called it fishy too. *laughs hysterically*
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Oh geez, Theca. This bites big time. I hope it gets straightened out soon, and that woman receives appropriate punishment.
space opera
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I'm so sorry, Theca, but relieved to hear there is a lawyer on board.
(((Theca)))
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Make sure that your lawyer is prepared to counter-sue her for harassment, etc. It sounds like she's setting you up for a financial hit.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I am shocked and appalled that this is happening to you, Theca. My hands are actually shaking, I'm so angry.
I know this will all be resolved in your favor, because you're innocent, but I'm so sorry you have to deal with such a major hassle. I wish there was something I could do to help.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: Make sure that your lawyer is prepared to counter-sue her for harassment, etc. It sounds like she's setting you up for a financial hit.
Absolutely. Man, but this is one crazy pickle.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I'm guessing she picked you as somebody she didn't like and as a likely candidate for her financial difficulties.
She may or may not have a legitimate gripe about someone stealing her identity, but the way she fingered you is just absurd.
You have requested a copy of your own credit reports, yes?
-Trevor
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Yes. My credit reports, all three, were excellent.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Wild speculation based on no evidence: there is an identity thief working the computer system at work. They have left a false trail, which they were able to set up by using your records from that same computer system.
BTW, I am totally sympathetic with the desire to sue someone, but be sure everyone is focusing on dealing with the criminal charges first.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
My wife's identity was stolen a couple of years ago. It turned out the receptionist at our dentist's office had a boyfriend who was involved with an identity theft ring. They used info pulled from dental records to get a driver's license in New Jersey with my wife's name on it, and they had applied for a credit card in her name.
The ring was using these credit cards to "rent" cars, and then apparently failing to return them. Luckily for us, the police were onto them before they got a chance to use false ID. The police informed us of the theft and we provided them with information that led to our dentist's receptionist. I think she also gave them information on her boyfriend, because we were given updates on the case, and she was never charged. (we almost had to go to NJ for court, but apparently there was a last minute plea bargain)
It was a little hairy for awhile, because we're more than just patients at our dentist; his son and my son are close friends. Needless to say he felt terrible that his office had been the source of our problems, but since we didn't incur any loss it really wasn't a big deal.
[ March 30, 2005, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Arnold ]
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
quote:I know this will all be resolved in your favor, because you're innocent
[loud, annoying buzzer sound]
I'm sorry, but that's incorrect.
It may be resolved in your favor; and we're all certainly hoping that it will be resolved in your favor. But when and if it is resolved in your favor, it will have very little to do with whether you're innocent of the charges or not. See "lawyer," above.
[ March 30, 2005, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: ssywak ]
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I feeling pretty scared now. I think I've lost my lawyer. With the HIPAA accusation, the clinic needs a lawyer, and I think that's where my lawyer is siding. He's stopped using the "I" word and was speaking in the third person about who was going to represent me in our last phone call 2 hours ago. I expect in the morning he'll refer me to somebody else. Maybe having tonight to research what I told him gives the clinic an edge over me? There is nobody on my side now. I'm supposed to move in 5 days, I start a new job in 2 weeks, and I can hardly stand upright right now. I could lose everything over this.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
He might not be able to represent the clinic, assuming you gave him information relevant to the situation.
Unless he's represented the clinic before, in which case he might not be able to represent you due to conflict of interest.
Don't worry yet - he will probably refer you to someone very good, and you need representation not diluted by cross loyalties.
Dagonee
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Hang in there Theca dear. I can't believe this is happening to you!!! *throws something*
You're going to get through. I'm sure Dag is right and that you'll get a great lawyer tomorrow. You will NOT lose everything. Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Obviously Dag knows better, but if you did give him information he can't use it against you...
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, Theca. I'm sure it's very frightening. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I wish I could offer you something other than omline moral support, Theca. This is really scary.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Maybe Beren can weigh in - I'm sure he knows a LOT more about conflicts.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Theca, you have a lot of people on your side.
The lawyer has to side with his primary client but as Dag noted, you'll get a good recommendation.
Take a breath and face your problems one at a time. Don't defeat yourself before the battle is joined.
-Trevor
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Don't let the bastards get you down. You're in the right here.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Theca,
In order to be convicted of anything, they have to trace something to you. It's not enough that you happen to work in the same place and have access to the information. Somehow, the money she lost has to end up in your pocket. (not exactly, but metaphorically speaking)
That didn't happen, right? So they've got nothing on you. Don't freak out.
We're all pulling for you.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
But I agree with everybody that's voiced the feeling of powerlessness. Don't freak, just wait. Probably better to distract yourself.
Watch a movie. Don't dwell on it.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I can't think of anything to say other, but I just wanted to Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
It sucks. It bites. It's crap. It's terrible. And it might be time to get a punching bag and take out all your anger on it. That can work wonders.
Good luck.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
So I was only half-right in my email.
Theca, you might also look into the AMA's or other professional organizations policies/recommendations on HIPPAA and what to do in these stuations.
Hang in there!
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA).
This is applicable because:
quote: HIPAA Administrative Simplification
The Administrative Simplification provisions of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA, Title II) require the Department of Health and Human Services to establish national standards for electronic health care transactions and national identifiers for providers, health plans, and employers. It also addresses the security and privacy of health data. Adopting these standards will improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the nation's health care system by encouraging the widespread use of electronic data interchange in health care.
Emphasis mine.
Unfortunately by invoking possible HIPAA violations, the medical clinic has gone on emergency defensive and the original lawyer has to try and minimize any potential damage to his primary client.
-Trevor
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
((Theca))
Assuming your clinc has been doing their job with the records, they should be able to show you didn't get at the records inappropriately. I know when I pull up anyone's account, it's logged by the server. Someone can go in behind me and see exactly whose accounts I've accessed. I hope you've got something similar at work.
Hang in there.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
(Is there any further info about this? I'm worried.)
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I'm now pretty scared. But I get to meet and talk to my potential new lawyer on Saturday. I have movers coming Monday to move me to a new city so she is meeting me right along Lake Michigan on Saturday, she expects we'll be talking about two hours. She sounds really, really nice and she just won a huge criminal case today. I can't wait to talk to her. I'm getting some phone calls at home that are making me nervous and I can't really ask her about it until she takes my case tomorrow.
[ April 01, 2005, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
We're thinking of you Theca.
-Trevor
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Good. Trust your lawyer. We can give you support, but we can't really help. It sounds like the lawyer who couldn't take your case was doing his best to act ethically - this is a good sign all around. There's nothing saying the clinic won't help you; if they have a lawyer of their own they'll feel more comfortable doing that.
I'll pray for you.
Dagonee
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Theca, do not trust your clinic's lawyer. Do not communicate with him in any way except through your own lawyer. I'm sure you are innocent of the criminal charges so I'm not too worried about that. However, the identity theft victim may file civil suits against you and the clinic on the theory that your negligence was responsible for the identity theft. If that happens, the clinic may have an incentive to blame as much of the negligence on you as possible.
You should also write down everything you have ever told the clinic's lawyer. Did you say anything that could be construed as negligence on your part? (Don't post an answer to that question, just think about it.) Make sure you tell your current lawyer every single thing you said to the clinic's lawyer.
quote:It sounds like the lawyer who couldn't take your case was doing his best to act ethically - this is a good sign all around.
Dags makes a great point. The lawyer's is acting ethically and that is a good sign. I'm not saying you and the clinic will automatically be enemies. No need to be belligerent or deliberately unhelpful. I just want you to be prepared for the possibility that you and the clinic may not always be on the same side.
[ April 01, 2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Theca, do not trust your clinic's lawyer. Do not communicate with him in any way except through your own lawyer.
Yes, I should have stated that explicitly. If the clinic can help you, his lawyer will talk to your lawyer and they will work it out. But he represents them, not you. This is what will allow them to possibly help you, but it is also possible for them to circle the wagons with you on the outside. He is looking out for them, as is his job.
Your lawyer will look out for you.
I'm sorry you have to go through this.
Dagonee
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
The clinic and clinic lawyer know every single detail that I know at this point. We sat down for over 2 hours today, the CEO, the lawyer, and I, and the HIPPAA privacy officer, and the lawyer promised to give me the name and phone # of the lawyer he recommended AFTER I spoke with them. So I did. It is complicated since Hippaa got involved and also I have to have a Michigan lawyer rather than Indiana lawyer so I felt like I had to do what he asked and take his recommendations.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
(((Theca))) I'm keeping you in my prayers. You have so much going on and you have to deal with this too. I can't believe it. Thanks for keeping us in the loop, we worry about you.
(And a thanks from me for the great advice that's been given thus far. I love Hatrack.)
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Yes, I really, really appreciate the support and advice. Thank you Hatrack.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Theca, did he tell you the name of the other lawyer after the meeting? Or did he withhold the name of that lawyer despite your request for the name pending your cooperation?
Those are two different situations, dn I wasn't sure what you meant.
Also, don't speak to them about any of this again unless your lawyer is present, as that lawyer si the only oen specifically looking out for you right now.
Good luck.
Kwea
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
quote:Or did he withhold the name of that lawyer despite your request for the name pending your cooperation?
Yes.
At least, he told me yesterday he would help give me a good recommendation after we discussed the case today. He reiterated that when I asked again when I showed up for the meeting today.
[ April 01, 2005, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
You're in my thoughts Theca
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Wait, he asked you about the case AFTER he knew he couldn't take it? That sounds pretty unethical to me. In fact, it sounds downright slimy.
You need to tell your lawyer all of this, as specifically as possible.
Dagonee
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The more I think about this, the worse it sounds. This lawyer either violated the confidence owed you as a prospective client or improperly failed to advise you to obtain counsel before questioning you on behalf of the clinic.
From what you've said so far (and you likely shouldn't say much more), he has committed at least one of several pretty serious ethical violations.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I think I'll throw up now. I'm worried about a couple other related issues but can't describe them in any way. Meeting the lawyer at 2:30 today.
And I just got called by the police. They wanted me to donate to the spring fund drive. After my heart started beating again I said no.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
If its any consolation, you didn't called by the police - odds are, you got called by one of the most obnoxious telemarketing programs I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.
-Trevor
Edit: For a very old typo.
[ May 11, 2005, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Dags is right. Tell all of this to your new lawyer. She'll know what to do with this information. Some info:
(d) In dealing with an organization's directors, officers, employees, members, shareholders or other constituents, a lawyer shall explain the identity of the client when the lawyer believes that such explanation is necessary to avoid misunderstandings on their part.
quote:
Rule 4.1 Truthfulness in Statements to Others
In the course of representing a client, a lawyer shall not knowingly make a false statement of material fact or law to a third person.
Rule 4.2 Communication with Person Represented by Counsel
In representing a client, a lawyer shall not communicate about the subject of the representation with a party whom the lawyer knows to be represented in the matter by another lawyer, unless the lawyer has the consent of the other lawyer or is authorized by law to do so.
Rule 4.3 Dealing with Unrepresented Person
In dealing on behalf of a client with a person who is not represented by counsel, a lawyer shall not state or imply that the lawyer is disinterested. When the lawyer knows or reasonably should know that the unrepresented person misunderstands the lawyer's role in the matter, the lawyer shall make reasonable efforts to correct the misunderstanding.
quote:Rule 1.7 Conflict of Interest: General rule
(a) A lawyer shall not represent a client if the representation of that client will be directly adverse to another client, unless:
(1) the lawyer reasonably believes the representation will not adversely affect the relationship with the other client; and
(2) each client consents after consultation.
(b) A lawyer shall not represent a client if the representation of that client may be materially limited by the lawyer's responsibilities to another client or to a third person, or by the lawyer's own interests, unless:
(1) the lawyer reasonably believes the representation will not be adversely affected; and
(2) the client consents after consultation. When representation of multiple clients in a single matter is undertaken, the consultation shall include explanation of the implications of the common representation and the advantages and risks involved.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
The lawyer guy stopped using the "I" pronoun after the first day and indicated I would have representation when I asked about that. He said a couple times, when I asked directly, that it would "probably" not be him and he'd let me know after the meeting.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I wonder if it would be helpful to find someone on your own, someone not connected to this first lawyer guy? I guess you'll get a sense of things after you meet with his recommendation lawyer today.
This weighes on me, Theca, and I grieve for you. This should have been a happy time. Perhaps this person's knowing you were going to be leaving soon made you a more attractive target.
Ah, jimminy cricket. And you take your work so seriously, too. Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
You're in my prayers today Theca especially as you meet your new laywer. I hope that this lawyer can help you feel better and have some peace of mind.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:He said a couple times, when I asked directly, that it would "probably" not be him and he'd let me know after the meeting.
Sounds to me like he was stringing you along, to get info from you while you were w/out counsel. I doubt if he really planned to represent you, at least after the HIPPAA allegations came up.
I agree with Dag and Beren--sounds fishy to me. Tell your lawyer.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
That is the first thing I noticed...and I am not even involved in Law School, or anything....I was hoping I had just misunderstood you.
I would tell your lawyer, and make sure he knows what you are saying...that you asked for council and was told that he would only give it to you if you cooperated with their questions. I would also go with another lawyer, other than the one recommended to you, because you might want/need to go after the first lawyer for unethical misconduct, and if they know each other your lawyer might not be willing to accommodate your desires with regard to that.
Sounds like a very fishy trick, and if ti is ruled unethical then any information they gained from that might not be admissible in court. That is very, very important, and something you should discuss with your lawyer ASAP, in my non-lawyerly opinion.
Good luck.
Kwea
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I just gave my new lawyer $8000 and she seems very nice. And trustworthy. And she lives like two hours away from here and has nothing in common with my lawyer except that he recommended her. She doesn't really know him, though. So far she and the other lawyer have planned to work together, her on criminal stuff, him on HIPPAA stuff, but she'll be watching for problems with that arrangement and so she'll be checking closely this week on him as she catches up with him and researches this further.
My parents are here now, I'll be posting only intermittently for awhile. I don't expect anything else to happen until Tuesday after I've moved to my new city. What I mean is, I won't know anything new till Tuesday, most likely, while she is catching up on this.
Thanks for all the help and good wishes.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Good grief. $8000 and the worry and strain, all for the sake of this. Ratfinks.
Take care.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Well, on Friday I got a registered letter from my former clinic. It was a copy of the letter they sent the patient, stating clearly that they did NOT feel I violated HIPAA in any way and stating their reasons. The points they made were excellent and it should be clear to her that the problems she is accusing me of started a full two years before I even moved there! Hopefully that will end the HIPAA problem. I emailed my lawyer a copy of the letter. She still needs to talk with the prosecutor's office, that part of the case is still ongoing.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
That, at least, is good news. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Nice for you to finally be getting some good news in this case Theca.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Oh, Theca. Good vibes for strength and peace coming your way.
What a mess! But what a brave and strong Theca! Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Sounds like the truth is coming out. Breathe deep and have confidence.
Dagonee
Posted by DavidR (Member # 7473) on :
Good Luck. Hopefully the fact that this person's problems started two years before you were at the clinic where her records were kept will go a long way towards proving that you didn't have means or opportunity to commit the fraud that you are accused of committing. Without means or opportunity I would think that it should be very difficult, if not impossible, for them to make a case. (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, though I do love a good John Grisham Novel. )
[Edited for spelling goof.]
[ April 11, 2005, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: DavidR ]
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
*cautiously happy*
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
God news at last.
You said that part of that was ongoing...does that mean that the other part is on hold now, or has been dropped?
Once again, don't answer that if it could cause problems, although I don't know how it could....I am just hoping that it has been good news for you as well.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
As Kwea noted - your prayers have been answered.
-Trevor
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Well, the HIPAA part should be over unless the patient is still wanting to push the matter. I assume she could appeal to someone higher up outside the clinic to review the HIPAA thing, but I don't really know how this HIPAA review stuff works. I am very relieved the HIPAA thing is over before I had to tell my new clinic about it and possibly lose my new job that starts next week. The criminal case is still at the prosecutor's office until they become convinced they should drop the case, that is what I am waiting on. I think.
Part of why I liked the letter so much is because it told me information about the case that makes it even less likely anyone would really want to pursue this in court. The sheriff had told me that some of the bills with my name on them were from Jan 2004. Apparently that is NOT true, the bills are from 2001 and 2002. I moved there in 2003.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I know this is not helpful, but... what a dipsh&% that sheriff is. *snort* He should be thrown out of office.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
The HIPAA violation may still be in effect for the clinic, but since this happened a full two years before you even started, you can't be held directly responsible for the HIPAA violations.
-Trevor
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
*relieved* That makes me feel SO much better. I've been thinking about you!
Posted by Achilles (Member # 7741) on :
quote: The sheriff had told me that some of the bills with my name on them were from Jan 2004. Apparently that is NOT true, the bills are from 2001 and 2002. I moved there in 2003.
Isn't that prime? If you lie to them, it's giving false information to a peace officer. If they lie to you, it's just getting information.
Hypocritical.
I'm glad you were able to resolve this though. Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Well, the lawyer just told me today that the criminal investigation could still take weeks. The prosecutor's office wants to do a thorough investigation before dropping it. So she told me to just not worry too much about it, and to be patient.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Is it still going to cost you $8,000? I think it sucks that you have to spend your own money when you're innocent. I think there should be some type of law for stuff like this. If you are accused of something and need an attorney and it turns out that you were innocent (not just "not guilty", but someone actually lied about something) you should have your expenses paid by some sort of fund that those who accuse people of falsely have to pay into for the rest of their lives.
But it sounds like things are improving. The waiting sucks though, doesn't it?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I am so glad to here that things are looking up. I know you'll be glad when it's all over, though.
Hang in there - and I'm really, really sorry you're going through all this. What a pain.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I am so glad to hear some good news about your case, Theca! Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Good news! The case appears to be over. The prosecutor has decided to deny the warrent request. According to my lawyer that means for me the case is over unless some new evidence against me shows up. Since that won't be happening, it should be over. Looks like out of my $8000 retainer fee I might get close to $6000 back. The case should cost me about $2000 total I'd guess.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I still don't know exactly what exactly happened to the woman in Michigan, but here's what I've gathered so far. This is just a summary for those who wanted to hear the story:
Apparently the phone number I had in a small town near South Bend, IN, once upon a time before I lived there belonged to another person I'll call Kim A. Smith. In 2001 and 2002 she had 3 different phone companies in turn and had bills of approximately $150 on each of them. The address on file for her was not my address but is a real address on Main St. I picked up the telephone number in March 2003 when I moved there. Apparently the earlier unpaid bills for Kim Smith were being sent to Main St and finally got turned over to two different collection agencies. Somehow during some time between 2001 and now, the SSN of a different Kim A. Smith in Michigan got attached to the bills. One of these phone companies doesn't even service her area in Michigan. My name somehow got on these collection bills as well. When this second Kim tried to get a mortgage she was told she had bad credit. When she researched, the collection companies were happy to hear from her and sent the bills to her. The bills had my phone number (of course!) and somehow my name was on them too, plus her name and her SSN and some address on Main St. She immediately took it to the sheriff and he picked up the phone and called the number at 7:30 the next morning. He reached me, of course, and that is how I got involved. I was supposed to meet him to show him my SS card but by the time I got there he knew I was a doctor in the clinic she goes to and decided I was guilty, well, that he was 98% sure he had enough evidence to take me to trial for it. He told me I should run home and "bust my butt" to prove my innocence. Within a couple hours I had determined that my credit was just fine and all three phone companies appeared mystified that I had any involvement. Getting written proof of this was going to be much more difficult and I couldn't get it done myself without help. Two of the companies confirmed for me that I hadn't even used them in the past several years, at least. I also looked up Kim's name at the clinic to see if she was a patient of mine. I was not listed as ever having seen her.
The next morning Kim went to my clinic and kicked up a huge fuss. She told her doctor and his staff and office manager that I had stolen her identity and was in custody and what were they gonna do about it. Furthermore she accused me of hipaa violations in getting her SSN AND in looking up her record the previous day to see if she was my patient. Luckily I had called the CEO the previous night so they had a heads up. I spent hours talking to the CEO, the designated hipaa person, and the clinic lawyer. Then they sent me out to do it all over again with a Michigan lawyer of my own while they researched the Hipaa violations. My biggest fear was that my looking to see if she was a patient would be a true violation that could hurt my career. They cleared me of that within three weeks and then it took my lawyer three more weeks to convince the prosecutor to drop the warrant for identity theft.
At this point the second Kim is probably still fighting her bad credit. I don't know what she will do but she's cost me $2000 and a lot of stress so I don't care that much right now. I personally think the collection companies collected a lot of bad data and put 2 and 2 together and got 10. My lawyer just thinks the phone companies made some mistakes. It is also possible there never was a first Kim and that someone stole the second Kim's identity back in 2001 when the telephone account was set up.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
That's great new. Sorry for the loss of funds, I am happy this turned out in your favor. Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
That's super news, Theca! And you get most of your retainer back too. I'm very happy it worked out! Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
To be honest, that is what it sounds like.
Too bad you had to be involved at all, but at least it is resolved for the most part.
Still, even though you don't feel too bad about this lady, and I understand way, I do. Someone screwed her pretty hard...providing she wasn't the one who did it in the first place.
My sister-in-law had this happen, only with a felony count conviction. She went to get a CORI report so she could get a job in social services after her graduation, and was told that she was currently serving a 3 year sentence in a federal prison fro fraud. Turns out someone she knew a long time ago had stolen her identity, and she never knew it...then she got busted for fraud and told them he was my sister-in-law! She was in the second year of her sentence, almost up for parole, when this broke.
My SIL had all sorts of problems getting it cleared up, though...even though none of the fingerprints matched, and she had all sorts of documentation. It took a State Congresswoman and Ted Kennedy, from the US Senate, to fix it. Judges kept saying "It was a legally rendered verdict" and passing it on.
So count yourself lucky, even though it may not seem like you have been overall.
Kwea
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I'm glad it's over! Too bad it cost so much; but it could have been worse, neh?
Still, ouch!
But yay that it's done, and you're cleared! Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Yeah, I'm thrilled it's over, and relieved that my reputation and credit are intact. $2000 is a small price to pay for all of that and I realize that. And I get $6000 back!
I DO feel sorry for Kim. I'm just too happy to feel as concerned for her as I usually would. I wonder if she still thinks I've gotten away with something or if she realizes I'm just a victim too.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I'm glad it worked out well for you Theca.
And not everyone can claim the benefit of such experience.
-Trevor
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
If the collection agencies were negligent in putting your name where it didn't belong, and are the cause of this whole mess, then I think they should pay for your bills, or at least suffer some consequence for having mistakenly pointed the finger at you.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Stormy, you bring up an excellent point.
Theca, I'm glad it's all getting resolved. Yay!
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
It would cost more money to research this enough to figure out where the trouble started and the lawyer doesn't really recommend it. I was told by a law student from Texas that it isn't legal to give clients phone numbers that are "encumbered" that is, have bill still attached to them. In addition my phone number was only disconnected less than 2 months when I was given it which seems awfully short. I'd love to make the phone company pay since I wouldn't have had any trouble if they hadn't given me an encumbered number but I don't think I'll bother. Does anyone know if this is in fact illegal?
I did learn a lot of things from the this experience. Some valuable things I wanted to point out for Hatrackers:
Keeping old records is a good idea. I had 5+ years of phone bill reciepts that my lawyer was very happy to take off my hands. Not necessary, no, but helpful in showing I've been paying all my bills monthly. Furthermore, I was able to produce my old leases for the past several years which helped prove to the prosecutor where I was living in 2001 and 2002. Again, not necessary, but far easier to just spend two minutes looking for it in my file instead of two weeks getting the proof from the apartment complexes involved.
Also, never put things off till last minute. I was way ahead on my packing and phone calls and so on involved in my upcoming move. Even spending hours daily on the case, and despite being too stressed to pack for the first 48 hours of the case, I was still able to move on time within a week of my sheriff visit without any problems.
And I've learned to keep a close eye on my credit reports. Not that that would have helped this time, but still. Worth checking up on.
And thanks for all the help, Hatrack. The support and prayers have been very appreciated.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Because I've been on so sporadically, I missed this.
Wow, I'm so glad things worked out for you, except for the fee. I understand how you feel about Kim. One feels bad for her, but is irritated that she made such a big scene of it, I suppose. Anyway, she'll get it cleared up and things will work out for her too.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Ack, I think we do have records hanging around here somewhere, but it wouldn't take us a few minutes to find it. I'm never that well organized. Glad on your behalf that you are.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I'm really glad this worked out for you, Theca, and glad that the money involved is not a big finantial blow to you. Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
I am so glad to hear that this fiasco is winding down for you. I can imagine the relief you must be feeling.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I, also, am so glad this is resolved.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I'm glad this worked out for you. And I would feel sorry for Kim except for this: "The next morning Kim went to my clinic and kicked up a huge fuss. She told her doctor and his staff and office manager that I had stolen her identity and was in custody and what were they gonna do about it." She intentionally made trouble for you with no proof. And she lied about it. My sympathy ends there.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Congrats on a (mostly) successful resolution.
I feel sorry for "Kim" for having to go through this, but her behavior at the clinic was uncalled for. It would certainly be nice if someone were to pay your legal fees for you since you definitely weren't involved, but good luck getting anyone to accept responsibility on their own. At least it ONLY cost you 2K instead of 8 or more.
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