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Does she know what you just went through???!!!

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But I keep hearing ( not from her) that I am supposed to be more sensitive and helpful now.

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WHO is saying this to you? I want to go beat them up!
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I am thinking this makes HER a bad friend. Seriously! Doesn't she have other friends/family she can share her concerns with? How can she expect you to be right there with her on this when what you experienced is far more devistating?

I'm sorry, but I am feeling really ticked off at your friend right now.
 

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Posted by ctm (Member # 6525) on :
 
Actually, I'd say your friend is the one being self-absorbed and whiny, and I don't understand the other people who are telling you you need to be sensitive... I'm sorry you have to deal with this now, I think you are doing the right thing by detaching from the situation.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
Okay, the insanity is more permanent than I was afraid of.

You are NOT being a bad friend. This is why people have more than one friend - so that one person does not have to do all friend-type things. She should go to someone else right now. You, dear romany, are not available to her for this.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 

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WHO is saying this to you?

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Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now."
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
For the record Romany, you're being much, much nicer than I would have been, circumstances being what they are.

-Trevor

Edit: Ignore the freaking family and get better freaking friends.

Un-freaking-believable.

Ok, now I'm ticked.

[ March 29, 2005, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
Tell them to bite you. They can't dictate if you should or not - it's your feelings.

Seriously - you know how you feel, and they don't. If you don't feel comfortable or happy doing it, then that is perfectly fine.

Added: In my first area, the daughter of the stake president died. She was married with four children, and her dad was a friend of our mission president. The missionaries were invited to go and stand along the road as an escort for the funeral caravan or whatever it is. I wasn't excited about it, but my comp convinced me that I should (I think she wanted to go). I wish I hadn't. I burst into tears halfway through and just wanted to leave, and it would have been fine if I had. I was too much of a pansy to tell her no. I wish I had.

This is your call. *hug*

[ March 29, 2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 
I also feel really obligated to be truly happy for her and not let my grief get in the way of that. Right after baby Brian died she said she felt gulity for still being pregnant, when we were so close we might have had our babies on the same day. I felt bad about that.
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
Oh, and the people telling you to be more sensitive?
Yeah, they are being bad friends too.

Edit:

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Right after baby Brian died she said she felt gulity for still being pregnant

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Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now."

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I also feel really obligated to be truly happy for her and not let my grief get in the way of that.

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Baloney. Obligation doesn't generate emotion, especially in a case like this. You are making yourself feel unecessarily guilty. Don't guilt trip yourself for this!

AJ
 

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Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
 
People sometimes lose sight of others pain and or tribulations when they are in the midst of events important to them. Your friend has lost some perspective and I would suggest that you remind her in a kindly way the next time she complains about her situation. Would you be able to say, in the most empathetic way you can, "Friend, I do understand your frustration if things don't work out perfectly but you should focus on how wonderful it will be when your healthy baby arrives".?

[ March 29, 2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 
(Space Opera)

I guess it's hard for some people to know how to respond to this situation. Just last week another freind asked me if I would be able to make it to her baby shower...I mumbled something noncommital but really wanted to say, "Are you nuts?"

OTOH, most of my friends are being very sensitive ( note that family is not mentioned as such). It's just a few, but enough to upset me some days.

Edit; spelling, and to add, Well said, punwit. Perhaps it is in order for me to say that.

[ March 29, 2005, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: dread pirate romany ]
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
romany, you need time to grieve and heal, and if someone doesn't understand that, then they are the ones being bad friends.

Yes, this may be something that makes you more compassionate in the future, but when the wounds are still raw and the pain is still fresh - it's perfectly okay for you to be selfish and focus on your own healing and not be concerned about others.

I agree - don't guilt trip yourself over this.
 

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Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 
Your reaction, wanting to avoid contact with the friend, is fine -- in fact, it's much more restrained and mature than what I'd do, which would be to put such a guilt trip on the friend that she would never again be able to think of me without weeping and gnashing her teeth with remorse.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I would probably just wait until a pause in my friends complaining and say something like "I'd give a lot to be in your shoes right now." or maybe be a little more direct and when she begins just say "I'm sorry X, but this is really hard for me to hear right now."
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Punwit's being a little too subtle, but the point is well made.

However, I think she's being a little overly emotional otherwise I don't think she'd try to lean on you.

And such a barbed response might leave lasting impressions you'd rather not leave.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I had an induction (despite my best attempts) with my first. I sort of felt that it had been unnecessary, that my doctor had been overcautious, and it would have been ok to wait until I had gone into labor. I whined about it to a friend (who at that point was single). She said something I have remembered to this day.

"How DARE you! You have a healthy baby. So it wasn't the way you wanted, and you're not thrilled about that. Fine. But whether you agree with Dr. [X]'s decision or not, it gave you your daughter."

Now, I don't 100% agree with her. I think it is more than reasonable to have be unhappy when one's vision of "the perfect birth" becomes unworkable. But I would start to avoid a friend who was obsessively focused on that -- to the exclusion of the goal, a healthy child -- even if I had NOT recently lost a child.

For her to expect you to be a constant source of sympathy -- or for anyone else to expect you to be such for her -- is absolutely unconscionable.

(((((dpr)))))
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
DPR, that is what they call a toxic friend. I am sorry. If she had a clue, or if other people did, they would leave you alone about this.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
I don't think she's doing it to hurt you, she's just unthinking. You know how people get about childbirth. You are not a bad friend to avoid her, though. You just need to take care of you, and if she ends up hating you, wait a while, then explain what you were going through, and she'll get over it. And if she doesn't, then the friendship is her loss, not yours. (((hugs)))
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
The woman who sits next to me at work, one of my best friends here, became completely unaware of anyone's feelings but her own during a large portion of her pregnancy. I pretty much knew it was due to her emotional state, she was having a very hard time of it, and didn't worry about it. (None of it really affected me, unlike your situation, dpr.) She took a long maternity leave, and I had pretty much forgotten about it all.

When she came back, the first thing she did was come over and apologize for how unsensitive and bitchy she had acted towards me. She said she realized after all the hormones had restabalized that she had been completely out of line on several occasions, and she really hoped it wouldn't hurt our working relationship or our friendship.

I thought she was blowing it a bit out of proportion, and thanked her for the apology and told her we were fine.

My point, kinda, is to echo what everyone else is saying here. You are not acting like a bad friend, she is. She's probably not aware of how it's affecting you. Avoiding her is probably the best thing you can do right now, and later on, after the baby is born, you guys will probably be able to talk about it an smooth things over.

Oh, and totally don't go to any baby showers. Whenever they're set for, you have a root canal that day and probably won't be feeling up to it, so sorry but thanks for inviting me and best wishes.

(dpr) You're amazing.
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
Wow. Things like this make me wonder whether the theory that I heard about there being more sociopaths in the world than anyone ever imagined is true.

This person is not thinking of you, dpr. She's not thinking of you at all, not thinking about how she would feel if she were in your position. I say bring it up to her the next time she talks about it, and damn the consequences. Someone who will do that to you... I don't know... They are not worth helping.

And for the record, in my opinion the whole "being more sensitive" thing is baffling and doesn't make any logical sense. For now, think more of yourself and the other people who were affected by what happened to you, not people who are unrelated who aren't willing to be sensitive to you.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
dpr, anything I say will echo what everyone else has already said in this thread. Nevertheless, I'm going to say it again because it sounds like you need the reassurance that you're not nuts, whiny, bitchy, or insensitive. You're not. At all.

You are grieving. You need to be allowed to grieve in whatever way is best for you. You need to be allowed to deal with what you're going through in whatever way you need to deal with it.

If you don't feel like going to baby showers, don't. If you don't want to talk about pregnancy concerns, don't. If you don't want to talk about anything at all, then don't.

You don't owe them anything right now. Nothing except basic politeness and civility. You don't owe them a shoulder to cry on or someone to talk to.

Be gentle with yourself and protect yourself from further hurt. (((dpr))) And give them a good swift kick in the head if necessary, even if it's only in a daydream.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
The more I think about this, the less I am annoyed with your friend, and the more I am onnyed by the attitude you are getting from the others. Grrr. They are the ones who should be able to see this more clearly.
 

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Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
 
Not to excuse this 'friend' (not at ALL), but I'd like to point out that sometimes one does not know what is the right thing to say when someone loses a baby. Obviously, in dpr's instance, b*tching about not being able to have a homebirth is totally inappropriate (I am shocked at the callousness).

I just wanted to say this as a point of information, and for kind of an apology for not rendering my condolences to those of us who have had a miscarriage or stillbirth. I hope you know that the lurkers and fluff-posters do hold you in our hearts at this time.

(((dpr)))
 

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Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
 
I don't know that it is necessary that one of you be considered a "bad friend" in this scenario. I'm not sure how it is in your state/municipality, but people have to be pretty darn committed to do home birth around here. It's pretty much a subculture, and if you were part of that I don't think it's totally unexpected that she would look to you for support and sympathy. However, it is totally understandable for you to not have that support to give.

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Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now."

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Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now."
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Do they say this about the current situation about your friend or just as a generality about your loss? People just say that stuff because the don't know what else to say.

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They mean in general. Our families especially ( those that are not totally ingoring the situation, as if I had never been pregnant) are bound and determined to find silver linings in this and force us to see the, right now.

See, this friend has been a good friend overall. She has taken opportnuities to ask questions and offer support even though she has to be thinking, Wow, that could have been me . Given that two of my pregnant friends are avoiding me like the plague (literally), I am grateful that she's been there. I do care enough about her to maybe gently bring up the subject.

Belle, I know that felling . Pregnant women make me want to cry.
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
dpr, you're a great friend - I am amazed at the graciousness and restraint that you are showing to this person. Like Space Opera, I was so touched that you posted in my fertility thread and by all the kindness and support you've given me.

There was a woman who worked for me who had the exact same due date that I would have had and I found it incredibly difficult to be around her. Even now, years later, I have a hard time going to baby showers.

Please tell people who fuss at you that there's no timetable for grief.
 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
You know I think the whole "finding the silver lining thing" is definately an instinct. People who love you don't want you to be sad; they want you to be happy, and are grasping at anything they think could cheer you up.

That said, having people point out a silver lining before you're ready to see it is horrible. After I miscarried I heard a lot of, "Well, at least you miscarried early." When my daughter was diagnosed with epilepsy I heard, "Well, at least it's not cancer. It could be worse." I seriously wanted to punch those people for awhile. Yes, after you have the chance to heal a bit you *can* see the silver lining; but not while you're still grieving.

I met a 16-year-old whose mom had epilepsy. We were talking and I shared with her how frustrating it was to hear "It could be worse." (This was pretty soon after Operaetta's diagnosis) Her reply was, "Well, it's the worst thing you've ever been through, right?" Wow - what a wise young woman! I realized it was okay to mourn and it was okay to be angry when I needed to be. Yes, my daughter didn't have cancer, but what she had completely changed our lives, and it wasn't something I got over in a week.

Keep hanging in there, dpr. We're all here for you and thinking of you.

space opera
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
A bad friend would have never started this thread, romany.

I would just be honest with your friend and tell her you are still fragile and grieving, and some topics just aren't good for you to deal with now. She will probably understand.

It's very sad, and you might have to wait awhile before you see it, but I liked Everything Put Together , a film about pregancy, loss and grieving, and shallow friendships. Radha Mitchell stars in it and gives a moving performance.
 

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Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
No offense to anyone involved here, and slightly off topic... What the heck is wrong with having a friggin c-sec?? My brother and I were BOTH born by c-section, and hey! We're fine, our mom is fine, it worked just fine. Its probably a lot less painful than natural birth too, not that I would know, just guessing.

(((rommany))) You aren't being a bad friend, she is.
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
Alcon, in general terms one problem is that many feel that too many unneccesary c-section procedures are performed in the US.
 

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Posted by Brian J. Hill (Member # 5346) on :
 
I've been away from Hatrack/lurking a lot recently, but this thread has brought me back. You are not a bad friend, dpr. The fact that you're even worrying about how good a friend you are at a time when you've been through an unimaginable personal tragedy proves that you're a good person. A selfish person wouldn't care whether she's a good friend. Your wounds are still deep, and as everyone else has said, need time to heal.

Your friend is likely totally oblivious to the fact that she is hurting you so much. She doesn't mean it, but that doesn't mean you should have to deal with her comments. You are right in avoiding her, even though it is always tough to ignore our friends. She'll understand. If not right away, when her body is under the influence of mind-altering hormones, she will eventually.

(((dpr)))
 

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Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
 
Seriously, it's true. Very few women are themselves this late in pregnancy. Most are self-absorbed and sometimes irrational. Brain chemistry is a funny thing.

Limit your time with her for a bit, and try to forgive her for being a butt, later.

I'm really sorry for your loss.
 

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Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
 
You guys, your support has meant so so much to me.

I do have a hard time giving myself permission to "take care of me". I'm not used to it.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Pfft - if you can't take care of yourself, you won't be able to take care of anyone else.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Alcon, way to miss the point! Most women would strongly prefer NOT to have a c-section if possible. It's major abdominal surgery, and the recovery is no fun. Ever had your appendix out? The recovery is much like that (at least, like from the old-fashioned incision type; the keyhole surgery recovery is not nearly as bad). Only with a newborn and lack of sleep to deal with.

It is certainly not any easier than labor, and the recovery is a hell of a lot worse.

Now, getting a healthy baby out of it sweetens the deal. (When I had my appendix out, all I got was a great big scar! ) But it still IS a big deal.




romany, I continue to be amazed at how supportive of this friend you are being. I'm sorry so many other friends/family members are being so hurtful, though I'm sure they don't mean to be. (((((romany)))))

[ March 30, 2005, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
 

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Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
romany, everyone's already said what I would say, but i'm not oging to let that stop me. =)

You are NOT being a bad friend to this woman. And I'm amazed that you haven't completely bitten her head off by now, especially so close to everything with Brian. I'm going to guess that she's just so self-absorbed in her own pregnancy and her wishes for it that she's not even conscious of what she's putting you through. I'd hate to discover that it was somehow intentional. THAT would be truly hurtful and cruel.

My nonprofessional prescription is to distance yourself from this friend for a while. Let her deal with her own pregnancy issues on her terms, you focus on your own family and your needs, and when you feel up to it, then you can either approach her again or respond to her outreach, as you choose. I don't know if I would bring this up to her at that later date, though, in large part because I choose to believe that her actions are not those of someone out to "get" you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{romany}}}}}}}}}}}}
 

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