Yes, anything. I'll do my best to answer within the confines of the rules of the board.
[ April 07, 2005, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Why can't I bring myself to go to bed early enough to get a good night's sleep?
(My theory: I am very much NOT a morning person. I am a nighttime person, and I don't like to waste the hours of 10 PM to 12 AM sleeping. But when I have to get up at five to seven, it's sort of necessary.)
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
How's the ceiling coming?
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
twink, I get up before 6, and for the past 2 weeks, I couldn't get to bed before midnight even once
[ April 07, 2005, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Kama ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Do you require nine hours of sleep in order to function properly? 'cause I do...
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
10-11, more like. I sleep on weekends.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
When I come to work tired I get nervous that I'll screw something up and then someone will die. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Twinky: You are a night person. When you are awake, you can't bear the thought of wasting your time sleeping. And no, I don't need 9 hours of sleep. I get by OK on 6 or 7, but it catches up to me every 3 days or so and I need a nap.
Eljay: At this point in the process you'd have to check with John. What I've seen so far is very cool, but we haven't finalized the design yet.
Kama: That's interesting, but it's not a question. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
ok, then, question. When will I meet a nice smart funny man who'll want to marry me?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:You are a night person. When you are awake, you can't bear the thought of wasting your time sleeping.
At night, yeah. In the morning I don't mind sleeping.
Maybe I can try doing what Kama does. But on the weekends, at least so far, it's even worse because I wind up staying up really late and then can't sleep in enough to compensate.
Thanks for answering. Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Why is Kama so focused on the whole marriage thing? I'd think a cute young thing like her would be enjoying herself playing the field at this time in her life. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
cause it makes the men nervous. I like that Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Kama: When will I meet a nice smart funny man who'll want to marry me?
You already have, many, many times. However, the question you should be asking is "When will I find one worthy of me?" Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
ah.
When?
Posted by Jane_Lane (Member # 7665) on :
I thuought we were meant to be asking the questions Kama?
What's your favourite type of nut? (If you like any).
And will my arm be better in time for my grading in just over 3 weeks? (Please say yes!)
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Kama: "When?"
When you least expect it. You will meet someone that you'd barely give a second glance to, but you will get into a chance conversation with him and by the end of the conversation you will think he is the most beautiful person you've ever met.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Jane_Lane:
1. Why would you think that? 2. Cashews. 3. Only if you take extremely good care of it between now and then and only then if you don't over-do it on the "grading".
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
So, are you using a crystal ball for this, Karl, or tea leaves?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Eljay: "So, are you using a crystal ball for this, Karl, or tea leaves?"
I'm channeling Liberace through my cat.
Posted by Jane_Lane (Member # 7665) on :
1) Because Kama said, 'ask me anything'!
2) I love cashews, and happen to be eating some now. Chocolate cashews have yet to make their way to the Uk but I've heard that once I've tried them, they'll be my new favourite food!
3) Thank you oh wise one If it's not better by then, I'll hold you responsible! Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
It's KarlEd, the Magic Eight-Ball!
You should answer at least one of the questions with "It is decidedly so."
Meanwhile, a question: will I survive the rest of the process of getting my Ph.D.? Cause lately, it doesn't feel like it.
Posted by Jane_Lane (Member # 7665) on :
Oh, another question - Are you for or against having compulsory ID cards in whatever country you live in, and why?
(Well it's worth a try!)
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Jane_Lane: 1. She didn't say that in this thread. 2. You can find out now with a hershey bar and some cashew. 3. If it isn't better by then, obviously you weren't taking good care of it. (NOTE: this technique works equally well for psychics and religions.) 4. I haven't given the ID card question a lot of thought. I can't think of many negatives off the top of my head, but might be persuaded by a thoughtful arguement against it.
Megan: "will I survive the rest of the process of getting my Ph.D.? Cause lately, it doesn't feel like it. "
It is decidedly so. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Why do I simultaneously long to meet other Jatraqueros and fear the experience?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Do you know any calculus? Specifically, do you know what a derivative is?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
ScottR: "Why do I simultaneously long to meet other Jatraqueros and fear the experience?"
Because you are wise enough to realize that the printed word both reveals otherwise hidden aspects of a person and also hides otherwise visible aspects of the same person. You long to meet those who intrigue you through their written words, yet you fear that they will turn out to be less to your liking in person. It could also be that you fear you will be less to their liking in person. From what I know of you I'd venture that for you it's somewhat a mixture of both.
[ April 07, 2005, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Am I hot?
msquared
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
And is this post whoring at it's worst? Or it's best?
msquared
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Twinky: Do you know any calculus? Specifically, do you know what a derivative is?
No. Mathematics and I had a bit of a falling out in Trigonometry and we've maintained an uneasy peace ever since.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote:Why do I simultaneously long to meet other Jatraqueros and fear the experience?
I thought for sure that question would be posted by Noemon.... but instead it was Scott R. Have you met any Hatrackers at all Scott?
FG
Posted by Jane_Lane (Member # 7665) on :
1. Uh, sorry, that's the drugs confuzzling me! 2. I've only ever once had a hershey choclate bar in Canada. Wonder if they have those cashew ones in the Uk.... 3. Hmph! 4. Do you have any first reactions to the idea? (I can post my notes on my research if you like!)
In basic calculus, the derivative is what you get having differentiated an equation.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
msquared: Am I hot?
I'd need either a photo or a thermometer to give an accurate answer. I imagine the photo would help me give an answer that more accurately reflects the spirit of your question.
msquared: And is this post whoring at it's worst? Or it's best?
This is boredom and procrastination at it's worst, though the boredom is being alleviated, the procrastination is just being exacerbated.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Jane_Lane: Do you have any first reactions to the idea?
My first reaction is that it would help in preventing fraud and other illegal activities, and like cameras in public places, it shouldn't bother you if you're not doing anything you shouldn't be. However, one should never underestimate the ingenuity of those who would abuse the system. Any system.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Karl, Is Jane_Lane somehow related to me? We share the same last name, apparently.
Also, what kind of playgrounds did they have in your hometown when you were a kid?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Why on earth would you recommend that Jane_Lane try a *hershey* bar and some cashews, when there are so many superior chocolate bars out there?
What am I thinking of right...now?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Primal Curve: Is Jane_Lane somehow related to me?
Yes, you are "Hatrack cousins".
Primal Curve: what kind of playgrounds did they have in your hometown when you were a kid?
My hometown until I was 9 was Pilot Mountain, NC. The only playground was the one at the public school. It had rusty swings and a merry-go-round that could give you splinters.
From 9 years old until 14 my hometown was Danville, KY. Again, the only "playground" was at the local school, but it was in much better repair and within walking distance. However, we rarely played there except at recess. Mostly we played in our next-door neighbor's back yard. They didn't have any equipment. It was usually BYOT.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Noemon: Why on earth would you recommend that Jane_Lane try a *hershey* bar and some cashews, when there are so many superior chocolate bars out there?
Because Hershey chocolate is the chocolate of the masses and I didn't want to appear elitist.
Noemon: What am I thinking of right...now?
At the time you wrote that you were thinking "Ha! bet he won't guess correctly". Right now you are thinking "What a cop out."
Posted by Jane_Lane (Member # 7665) on :
All this talk of chocolate has made me hungry. KarlEd - Where did I leave my chocolate bar? Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
>>Have you met any Hatrackers at all Scott?<<
Just Brock, and that was briefly at Literary Boot Camp.
And I've met Scott and Kristine Card, of course. . .
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
How does one get a better, fun job that pays major $money$?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Become an ordained minister. . . oh, sorry, this is Karl's thread. . .
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Jane_Lane: KarlEd - Where did I leave my chocolate bar?
You ate the last one you had. You have to go buy another now.
Synesthesia: How does one get a better, fun job that pays major $money$?
This has never worked for me. All the things I think are most fun pay terribly, or else lose their fun-ness when they become a job. Unless making money is fun to you in and of itself, I find that the pursuit of one precludes the pursuit of the other. But if you find a way to counteract that which works for the general populace you could get rich selling the knowledge. (But would it be fun?)
Posted by Susie Derkins (Member # 7718) on :
Who is your favorite artist?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Is leaving a job that pays well, has fabulous hours, a noble mission, and good coworkers worth it if you can earn $25,000 a year more?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
When will my voice come back? Why do I have snot dripping off the back of my throat?
AJ
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Susie Derkins: Who is your favorite artist?
That's a tough one. It would be more accurate if I named a few of my favorites: MC Escher, Rene Magritte, Ansel Adams, Gustav Caillebotte are but a few.
Posted by Susie Derkins (Member # 7718) on :
Oooh, good choices. Plus, Caillebotte is just fun to say.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
katharina: Is leaving a job that pays well, has fabulous hours, a noble mission, and good coworkers worth it if you can earn $25,000 a year more?
Not if the money is the only attractive thing about the prospective job, though that might be enough of a reason if there is sufficient need (or desire to do good with) the extra cash. If the only reason for the extra cash is to "improve your lifestyle" I'd say "no" because you'd likely be counteracting the improvement by putting up with crappy hours, questionable value, and working with jerks. There is a lot to be said with being satisfied in your work, even if you're not outright ecstatic about it.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
BannaOj: When will my voice come back? Why do I have snot dripping off the back of my throat?
I suspect your voice will come back shortly after the snot stopps dripping off the back of your throat. I suspect the dripping is because you have some sort of head cold. Vicks Vaporub, orange juice, and plenty of rest wouldn't hurt. Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*grin* Exactly how I would have answered my question. The harder question is "Why did I lose my voice in the first place?" But I already know the answer to that too: I chattered too much at BobNDanaCon!
AJ
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Karl, When I was younger, there was a tv show that I remember absolutely nothing about, except that there was some sort of flying robot who always said, "Negative outcome, not good"
What show was that? It has bothered me for the longest time.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Cow-Eating Man (Member # 4491) on :
What should I do for lunch?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
prolixshore: When I was younger, there was a tv show that I remember absolutely nothing about, except that there was some sort of flying robot who always said, "Negative outcome, not good"
What show was that? It has bothered me for the longest time.
The only thing I can find with that quote is that it is from the movie The Flight of the Navigator 1986. Could it be that you saw it on TV and mistook it for a series?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Cow-Eating Man: What should I do for lunch?
Eat a cow, of course. Unless you're looking for variety, in which case I'd recommend a nice turkey sub from Quiznos. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Karl, why did my boss just ban me from playing with a yo-yo during work, claiming that it is unprofessional (despite the fact that they give away toys including a yo-yo as prizes for good work) and that I've nearly hit some people (an exaggeration)?
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Are these really the sorts of questions you hoped to solicit when starting this thread?
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
What side of the bed do you sleep on, and why?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Primal Curve: why did my boss just ban me from playing with a yo-yo during work, claiming that it is unprofessional (despite the fact that they give away toys including a yo-yo as prizes for good work) and that I've nearly hit some people (an exaggeration)?
Because, clearly, your boss is a slave to moronic, self-contradictory, corporate policies. He's also probably trying to cover is own butt in case you actually do manage to hit someone.
jeniwren: Are these really the sorts of questions you hoped to solicit when starting this thread?
No, not really. As an ex-military, former LDS missionary, agnostic homosexual I thought the questions would be more intriguing, especially from Hatrackers.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
dabbler: What side of the bed do you sleep on, and why?
I used to sleep on both sides. Nearly every night, at some point either Douglas (my ex) or I would get up and go to the other side of the bed and have the other person move over. That way we could maintain our "me-in-the-back-spooning" position, but still get to sleep on our other side. Now with Chris its more that he sleeps in the bed and I insinuate myself into whatever space that doesn't contain his own atoms or those of one of our three cats. And no side-switching in the middle of the night.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
What are your favorite insects and why?
How do agnostic, former LDS homosexuals recruit people to their evil causes?
When can you come play in my garden with me?
Should I continue posting on Hatrack, or should I make my daughter lunch?
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
What does it mean to be in love (especially as different from "simply" loving someone)?
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
I don't remember if you've ever talked about this in landmark threads or elsewhere, but I've always wondered what your childhood family dynamics were. There's sort of an implied question there. Posted by Cow-Eating Man (Member # 4491) on :
quote:What kind of god says "Knock and it shall be opened to you", hides behind the curtain until you go away, then opens the door only after you're gone?
Did a door open after you left?
[ April 07, 2005, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Cow-Eating Man ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Jenny Gardener: What are your favorite insects and why?
Dragonflies: because they are cool looking. Butterflies: because they are beautiful. Ladybugs: because they eat aphids. Honeybees: because they are why many flowers smell good and/or are pretty. And I love honey.
How do agnostic, former LDS homosexuals recruit people to their evil causes?
We stand outside Republican Party fundraisers and re-program the disillusioned.
When can you come play in my garden with me?
I'd love to. I'll have to see if my future takes me anywhere near the Hoosier State. Forecast is cloudy at this time.
Should I continue posting on Hatrack, or should I make my daughter lunch?
Assuming you haven't already, go take her to lunch. Hatrack will be here and your daughter is growing up too quickly.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Sorry, Karl. I kind of set the tone by asking frivolous questions. Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Our dishwasher started leaking not long ago and it appears that it warped the hardwood floor boards in that corner of the kitchen. What should we do?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I think most of the serious Ask the Expert threads have to be started by someone than the person people turn to as the expert.
I asked a serious question! It's not for right now, but fairly soon. My boss will retire in a year, and I'm trying to decide whether or not to stay then.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
dabbler: What does it mean to be in love (especially as different from "simply" loving someone)?
Good question. Love defies universal definition, so it's unlikely anyone could give you an answer that no one else would argue with. I wouldn't have had an answer for you before I met Chris. I believe that you can love someone objectively, or even dispassionately, but if you are "in love" you are inextricably tied to the object of your love. Their happiness is your happiness. If all is good with you and your love, all other things seem surmountable, and life seems all too short. The only thing that hurts worse than seeing them unhappy is knowing that you are the cause. If you're in love it's much easier to cede an arguement even when you "know" you're right. If this makes no sense to you, all I can say beyond this is that you will know it when it happens. Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Thank you That puts a lot of good things out in the open to help me figure it out myself.
*hug*
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
jeniwren: I don't remember if you've ever talked about this in landmark threads or elsewhere, but I've always wondered what your childhood family dynamics were. There's sort of an implied question there.
I talked about this in my first landmark, which is still in the landmark archives. But to re-cap, it was chaotic. Things were relatively peaceful until I was probably 10 years old then it was mostly yelling until well after I left home, ending in separation and divorce well after I was out on my own.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Cow-Eating Man: Did a door open after you left?
If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one to hear does it make a sound? I don't know if the door opened. How could I if it didn't happen until after I left?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
No worries Twinky, this was started mostly in jest anyway.
jeniwren: Our dishwasher started leaking not long ago and it appears that it warped the hardwood floor boards in that corner of the kitchen. What should we do?
Stop using the dishwasher immediately. Pull it out and let the floorboards dry completely. If they aren't too warped you might be able to sand them down and refinish them. If they are severely warped, you might have to replace them. If you do have to replace them, and money is a problem, you might be able to get away with replacing them with plywood if the damage will be hidden by the dishwasher. Also you might want to cut a piece of linoleum to go under the dishwasher to protect your floor in case this ever happens again. You'll probably also want to look into getting a new dishwasher, depending on repair costs and age of the old one. Good luck. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
dabbler: Thank you That puts a lot of good things out in the open to help me figure it out myself.
Though not a question, let me add a caveat: Being "in love" is not objectively a good thing. If you are "in love" with someone who is not worthy of you, or who is not "in love" back, or who doesn't even have your best interests at heart, it could prove tragic. Being "in love" while immensely satisfying in my own experience, should be approached cautiously. This is especially hard because the feeling itself makes you want to throw caution to the wind. Good friends are important. While good friends will enjoy your happiness when you are healthily "in love", good friends will also help you know when it is leading you into danger.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Will the next person I date be a [edit: member of hatrack, dang it!]?
[ April 07, 2005, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
A friend of mine grew up in a conservative Christian household. He's gay, and still very religious. He's undecided about what the Truth is, with respect to how he should live his life. I think he believes that Christians can have false ideas, and that the bible was written by fallible humans, but he hasn't figured out what God wants. He's been praying but has yet to receive an answer. He's divided between lifelong celibacy, or looking for a lifelong partner.
I doubt there is anything I can do to help him on this journey. But can you offer any insight?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
One might hope the next person you date will be a jatraquera.
That is, unless I'm wrong about your orientation. For some reason I seem to be sure you're straight.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Yes, I know what you mean. Recently I expressed concern that "being in love" was in actuality, an unhealthy state of mind. It's very focused, a form of obsession, and can blind oneself from doing the right thing.
However, it can't be all bad. And I'm trying to redefine what it means to me.
[ April 07, 2005, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: dabbler ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
fugu13: Will the next person I date be a [edit: member of hatrack, dang it!]?
If you're lucky. But don't hold out just for that. There are many wonderful people out there who haven't found Hatrack yet. Just as nice as dating a Jatraquera(o) would be to date someone nice and introduce them to Hatrack. Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
KarlEd:
First, thank you for directing me to your first landmark. I know I hadn't read it before when you originally posted it (which leaves me to wonder where in heck I was). It was very enlightning.
Second: Thanks re: the dishwasher. Even now I'm waiting for the repairman to show up to tell me whether we should buy a new one or have this one repaired. It's only 5 years old, but we really hated it (it came with the house), so replacing it is not out of the question at all. OTOH, we're thinking seriously about putting the house on the market in the next couple of months in favor of moving closer to Seattle. So buying a dishwasher we love sounds like a possibly needless expense.
New question: Until you came to terms with your homosexuality, did you ever date women? Most young men, especially LDS, are to some degree, pressured to date. I'm trying to understand how that was for you.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
dabbler: A friend of mine grew up in a conservative Christian household. He's gay, and still very religious. He's undecided about what the Truth is, with respect to how he should live his life. I think he believes that Christians can have false ideas, and that the bible was written by fallible humans, but he hasn't figured out what God wants. He's been praying but has yet to receive an answer. He's divided between lifelong celibacy, or looking for a lifelong partner.
I doubt there is anything I can do to help him on this journey. But can you offer any insight?
Your friend needs to settle his account with God first. God still plays an important part in the lives of many gays. There are increasing numbers of Christian churches that will welcome your friend into their ranks. He has to emotionally and intellectually decide what he believes his relationship with God is, if any. Leaving God to "go be gay" is just as damaging in my opinion as living repressed and lonely just to try to fit into a group your heart isn't in. If he truly feels he isn't getting an answer, he has to decide if that feeling is because he isn't listening or if he is ready to accept that maybe no one is there to answer, or maybe someone is there but the question is so unimportant to Him that he doens't think an answer is necessary. I know what I believe the answer is, but it's an answer each has to find out for himself.
So tell him my advice is to get his heart right about God, then worry about whether that is going to require life-long celibacy, life with a compatible homosexual Christian, or life with one of us godless heathen homosexuals. It's infinitely more difficult to make the second choice before you've made the first.
Posted by His Savageness (Member # 7428) on :
KarlEd:
I am a newbie. Should I post my introduction on a newbie thread? Also, why haven't I done so yet?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
jeniwren: It was very enlightning.
I suspect we may disagree on some of the things you feel you understand about me after having read that, but I still like you.
So buying a dishwasher we love sounds like a possibly needless expense.
Not necessarily. You can always put in the sales contract that the dishwasher "does not convey" and take it with you when you leave. You could also buy an inexpensive, but new, dishwasher, which would probably last for a couple of years, leave it with the house when you sell and buy your dream dish-washer when you get in your new place.
Until you came to terms with your homosexuality, did you ever date women?
Yes. I dated a little. I was the guy that most of the mothers in church wished their daughters would go out with. I don't think I ever went on a second date with a girl, though, because I never saw the relationship going anywhere. This was in part because I didn't click intellectually with many of them, as well as the fact that there was never any physical desire for them on my part.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Karl,
Of all the controversial hatrack characters who have left in a huff recently or in the distant past, who would you most like to return?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
His Savageness: I am a newbie. Should I post my introduction on a newbie thread? Also, why haven't I done so yet?
No. A thread especially set up for newbie introductions is like a closet to put newbies in. Be bold. Start a thread that says "Hi, I'm His Savageness" and wait for the questions about who "He" might be and why you are "His".
You haven't done so yet because you are reticent to jump into the midst of this wild gang of eclectic personalities. You've been checking the waters up to now. But now you should go for it!!
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Primal Curve: Of all the controversial hatrack characters who have left in a huff recently or in the distant past, who would you most like to return?
"Controversial" is a subjective term and I'm completely ambivalent about all the huffy leavers who fit that term for me. However, of all the Hatrackers in self exile the one I'd most like to see back is Bonduca. (I'd have said Slash, but I know where to find him so the loss is diminished.)
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I don't. I miss Slash like doom. He doesn't even try to kill us in D&D anymore. (sigh)
Karl, what's the part of my neck on the left side that hurts so much and feels like crumply paper when I push on it?
Posted by Phil Meyer (Member # 7758) on :
Am I a newbie?
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
KarlEd:
In all honesty, what I found in your landmark wasn't what I expected (if expected is the right word...it probably isn't), so I'm tucking the information away for better future understanding. I was genuinely curious...I try to understand homosexuality as best I can. I know a few gay men, only one well. Your childhood is significantly different than his was. He, fwiw, chose God, and it has made his life very, very difficult. He isn't what I would call a happy person, though he's got the most generous soul I've ever known. He's been a good friend to me for nearly 15 years. I didn't know he was gay until 4 or 5 years ago.
The dishwasher repair guy just left and it's a fatal issue. I'm going out to buy a Maytag on his recommendation. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Ryuko: Karl, what's the part of my neck on the left side that hurts so much and feels like crumply paper when I push on it?
Something you should see a health care professional about.
Phil Meyer: Am I a newbie?
Well, since this is your first post with that name I'd guess, "No." I suspect you are either a lurker come out of hiding (in which case I'm flattered), or an "oldbie" trying out a new name.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
What's the cheapest way to move from Texas to California with a one-year-old who's not weaned yet, two cats, and an apartment full of stuff? Is me flying with the baby while my husband drives the cat and some more breakable stuff in the car and hiring movers for the rest of the stuff we want to move, while selling some of the replaceable stuff and buying it when we're there a good idea? Did that last question's sentence structure really irritate you?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
ketchupqueen: What's the cheapest way to move from Texas to California with a one-year-old who's not weaned yet, two cats, and an apartment full of stuff?
The cheapest (feasible) way is probably to rent a u-haul and pack and move all your stuff yourself. With your husband driving the truck with the cat and you taking your kid with you in the family car.
Is me flying with the baby while my husband drives the cat and some more breakable stuff in the car and hiring movers for the rest of the stuff we want to move, while selling some of the replaceable stuff and buying it when we're there a good idea?
This sounds to me like a better idea, if you can afford it, but it's likely to be more expensive than option number one. Also, for anything you plan to sell and re-buy, make sure you can re-buy it for less than the cost of moving it or else you're wasting money. However, that said, this is a good opportunity to get rid of anything that isn't really essential, or is really ready to be replaced. The less you move, the less it will cost you (within certain margins.)
Did that last question's sentence structure really irritate you?
Not as much as it amused me. Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
(Feel free to not answer this question) Has anyone ever felt you betrayed them? Did you feel you had, and what did you do about it?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Suneun: Has anyone ever felt you betrayed them? Did you feel you had, and what did you do about it?
This is also a tough question. I'm sure I've disappointed my share of people. I've angered a few, carried grudges against a few, and otherwise upset my share of people. But, honestly, if anyone has felt that I betrayed them they haven't confronted me with it. I think I'm a pretty loyal person. I try not to betray a trust if it can be avoided.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
How can I break my Hatrack addiction, or at least lessen it a little?
Posted by Swede (Member # 7560) on :
Why do you always see a lot of moose when you hunt roedeers and vice versa?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Shigosei: How can I break my Hatrack addiction, or at least lessen it a little?
The only way I know of is to lose your internet connection. No 'net = no hatrack. An alternative that works for some people is to get deeply involved in a highly controversial discussion about something personal to you. Do this enough and you're bound to get so tired you'll want to take a break. Unfortunately, sometimes the break lasts indefinitely.
Swede: Why do you always see a lot of moose when you hunt roedeers and vice versa?
The moose and roedeer have a mutual protection alliance. They've each secretly agreed to swarm any hunters out to hunt the other.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
There was something else I was going to ask my Mission President but now it's slipped out of my mind, what was it?
How do you feel about various hair-placement products (my name for hair-gel, hair-spray and the like)?
Hobbes Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Balding (half-density top of the head) man should keep is hair short or grow the back of it long?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Hobbes: There was something else I was going to ask my Mission President but now it's slipped out of my mind, what was it?
Is it OK to post on Hatrack on my P-day??
How do you feel about various hair-placement products (my name for hair-gel, hair-spray and the like)?
I've slowly decided they are worth it if you need them to acheive a cleaner look. However, I try hard to be as low maintenance as possible.
Suneun: Balding (half-density top of the head) man should keep is hair short or grow the back of it long?
As for length, whatever floats your boat. But if you're going bald, go proudly. No comb-overs, no spray paint, and don't hide under a baseball cap. Bald can be just as sexy as a full head of hair, all other things being equal.
[ April 08, 2005, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by definitelynotvichysoisse (Member # 7559) on :
If a wheel falls off a wagon which is rolling up hill, how long will it take to shingle a dog house?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
How much does a mirror weigh?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Should I major in English, History or Politics?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
See, this is why I'll never have my own advice column. I would answer Teshi "yes."
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
That's my answer too. That's the problem.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Bachelor's in English, Master's in History and a career in Politics.
-Trevor
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Darn it, ElJay got to my favorite answer before I did.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'd go with History, myself.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
You don't want me as a politician. Ironically, that's where my highest mark is. Ironically, that's probably because of Hatrack (woo! Understanding American Politics!). Ironically, my lowest marks are in English. Ironically, I want to write.
*dies*
I can do a double major and a minor. The original plan was Major in English and History and Minor in Politics.
Don't even get me started on the "where does music come in to all of this" issue.
EDIT: Ideally, I'd end up with four majors. However, I only want to do four years of school.
[ April 08, 2005, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Tell me, KarlEd, will I love you as one of my very favorite people absolutely forever? Posted by Trashcan_Man (Member # 7345) on :
Karl: I find that many of my friends don't really talk to me unless I begin talking to them and I believe that they don't really want to be friends with me. So I decided I wouldn't talk to them unless they talk to me. Needless to say, I 've lost about 20 friends (Ive counted) and I want to commit suicide. What do I do?
[ April 09, 2005, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Trashcan_Man ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
{{{Trashcan Man}}} Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Committing suicide is a final decision - be very sure you find no joy in life before you throw it all away.
-Trevor
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Trashcan_Man, it sounds like talking with someone trained to help people with these sorts of things would be a very good idea. If you already have a relationship with a health (mental health or physical health) professional, then now would be the time to call them.
If you do not, then if you are a student, try the resources available through your school or university. If you have insurance, you can work through that channel and find out where to start. Or you could check out your local free mental health clinic (many places have this).
Should none of these answers fit, try calling one of the national hotline numbers here. Or use the instructions at that site to find a state or local number.
This is the sort of thing you need experienced help in dealing with. Of course --of course -- we are hear to listen, commiserate, keep you company ( ), and offer whatever support we can. That just is never going to be as much as someone who knows the resourses in your area and has proper training can do. To pretend otherwise would be a grave disservice. We care too much to do that.
You aren't alone. Stay around and chat. And tell us when -- not "if," but when -- you have also linked up with a professional, so that we can all sleep a little better at night.
-------------------------------------
So, what's going on in your world today? What are you going to be doing? Me, I am going to check on Tom & Christy's non-human children (cat, fish, bird) after I get some yumminy Earl Grey tea with chocolate in me.
After that, I have to ruthlessly slash apart some of my writing for work.
I think this requires chocolate fortification, don't you? Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Trashcan_Man, CT's advice here is excellent; I can't recommend highly enough that you do as she suggests.
Teshi, why is it that you're wanting to major in English? Is it just because you want to write? There are valid reasons for choosing English as a major, but I don't feel like wanting to be a writer is among them. The best way to become a writer, I think, is to write.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
We've stolen Karl_Ed away for the weekend, but he promises to answer again when he gets back.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Karl, have you and Chris ever thought about adopting?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Noemon: I realise that, and I am a firm believer in it, but I also love to learn about other people's writing. It certainly enables me to think about my own writing in different ways.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Ah, okay. That's a good reason to major in English. Out of curiosity, when you've graduated do you intend to support yourself through your writing, or do you have other plans, or do you intend to just let the future happen when it happens (the last of these being what I did--majored in Classics with a minor in Religious Studies, got a MA in Education with a focus in teaching English as a second language, and then ended up getting into the IT field. Worked out pretty well for me, although if I were going back and doing it over I'd probably pick a different major)?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Ideally, I'd support myself through writing. Realistically, the future happens when it happens.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Do you miss the Mormon church? What would you say that your purpose is in life (or what makes you get up in the morning)? Do you find that purpose as satisfying as you found purpose through the Mormon perspective when you believed?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
definitelynotvichysoisse: If a wheel falls off a wagon which is rolling up hill, how long will it take to shingle a dog house?
Three feet.
Noemon: How much does a mirror weigh?
Mirrors do not weigh. They reflect.
Teshi: Should I major in English, History or Politics?
You should major in English Political History.
But seriously, if you are truley that undecided, I'd suggest majoring in English. That should help you in just as wide a number of fields as the other two, and will provide skills that are essential in just about any field. And if you're just starting, you can always switch majors your second year, usually without too much trouble, if you find your heart pulls you elsewhere. (Caveat: this is coming from someone who has an Associate in Applied Science from the Community College of the Air Force. )
CT: Tell me, KarlEd, will I love you as one of my very favorite people absolutely forever? Only if you come to PA and meet the real me. Until then you can only love what you can glean from my writing. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Trashcan_Man: I find that many of my friends don't really talk to me unless I begin talking to them and I believe that they don't really want to be friends with me. So I decided I wouldn't talk to them unless they talk to me. Needless to say, I 've lost about 20 friends (Ive counted) and I want to commit suicide. What do I do?
Follow CT's excellent (and more timely) advice. Aside from that, learn to make the effort to speak to and be around the people you like. The sad reality of life is that most people wait for other people to make the effort to be social. (That is why bars play loud music. If they didn't the silence would be deadly.) Forget waiting for others to initiate. Take charge and be the initiator of conversations, the inviter to parties, and the giver of gifts. You will find that most people will be takers and receivers, without thought of reciprocation, but you will be creating opportunities to encounter those people who are sufficiently advanced socially to respond in kind. You will encounter like spirits and will find your pool of genuine friends will grow over time. Never, and I mean NEVER, determine your own self worth by the way people treat you. By and large, people are shy and often thoughtless. This doesn't mean they don't like you. I usually means they are trapped inside themselves and could maybe use your help to get out.
[ April 11, 2005, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
romanylass: Karl, have you and Chris ever thought about adopting?
Well, we haven't been together long enough to have any serious discussions about it. In light conversation, Chris has revealed that he thinks he is too much a kid himself to take on the responsibility. I don't see children in my future at the moment. I know that right now I have neither the money nor the energy to fight the legal battles that would be involved in adopting a child as a gay man. I like kids a lot, but right now I'm satisfied trying to be a positive influence on other people's kids. As TomD put it this weekend, "You do seem pretty avuncular." I chose to take that as a compliment. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Amanecer: Do you miss the Mormon church?
I miss the social aspect of belonging to a church. So far I haven't been able to find any other institution that provides the opportunities for social bonding that church did. However, I do not miss many of the specifically Mormon aspects of going to church, nor do I miss any of the specifically religious aspects of church. That said, I don't see myself going to church again if it's just for the social aspect of it. I'd feel too much like an outsider and a hypocrite if I pretended to believe in order to fit in, and I'd feel like a heckler at a play everyone else was enjoying if I were openly skeptical. Add to that the fact that I don't know of any gay-friendly churches in my town and you can see why I don't see church in my future anytime soon.
What would you say that your purpose is in life (or what makes you get up in the morning)?
I don't think life itself has an objective purpose except to perpetuate itself. However, I think that each individual can find or create his or her own purpose or goals which can be satisfying. My self-imposed purpose is to create beauty and spread happiness, it is also to right wrongs and alleviate pain or suffering when I can.
Do you find that purpose as satisfying as you found purpose through the Mormon perspective when you believed?
Yes, I do. I still find joy in helping others. I find joy in other people's happiness as well as my own, but especially in smiles I know I had a hand in putting there. If anything, I find this purpose more satisfying because it seems more real to me. I also find it more satisfying because it is a purpose I have found for myself rather than one that was imposed on me from some (in my experience unknowable and unnecessary) external source.
[ April 11, 2005, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Pfft. Everyone knows that a mirror weighs four pounds.
Am I going to regret planting those clibming rose bushes so close to my house?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Oooooh, what color did you get???
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Noemon: Am I going to regret planting those [climbing] rose bushes so close to my house?
That depends entirely on what you expected them to climb on. I mean, they gotta climb on something. If it's your house, that can be very pretty and in some cases makes them easier to prune since instead of using a ladder, you can just reach out of an upstairs window.
While there are probably some good reasons to not plant a climbing rose near your house (bees might be one), there are some significant plusses. They add security as they make for very unfriendly hiding places for burglars and the like. They usually smell good and look good, and since most people spend more time closer to their houses than they do in far-flung parts of the yard, you're likely to fully enjoy them more.
ElJay: Oooooh, what color did you get???
Pink. (But that probably wasn't directed at me, huh? )
[ April 11, 2005, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Nonetheless, you were right Karl--they're pink. I got...hmmm, let's see... William Baffin climbing roses. And I came up with the idea of planting pink climbing roses all on my own.
The cascading roses that you suggested putting in the window boxes, ELJay, will be in at my local nursery next weekend, so assuming that the weather cooperates I've got my project for next weekend all lined up.
Edit--okay, what's wrong with my link? I've recreated it twice and it's still messed up.
[ April 11, 2005, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Why is Noemon neglecting his space related news thread?
Hobbes Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Neat. I can't wait to see pictures in a year or so, once they're established.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I actually haven't been posting nearly as many links as I usually do Hobbes--I kind of fade in and out with that.
ELJay, yeah, I'll definitely be sending you pictures, or if you're in the area you're more than welcome to stop by and see how it looks for yourself. I'm trying to decide, now, whether I should put in trellises between the plant and the house, or actually let the roses climb the columns. Having them climb the columns would definitely look cooler, but I was talking to somebody yesterday who was going on at length about what a bad idea it was to let climbing plants grow directly on your house. So...I'm undecided.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Noemon: okay, what's wrong with my link?
I don't know. Does it work [URL=http://www.waysidegardens.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10067&langId=-1&mainPage=prod2working&ItemId=45031&PrevMainPage=advsearchre %20sults&OfferCode=R3H&scChannel=Roses%20AS]for me?[/URL]
[edit: apparently not. I assume it is because UBB code doens't like some character in the URL. ]
[ April 11, 2005, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
It is in need of tinyurlage! Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I have this black netting stuff wrapped around the pillars of my back porch for my climbing plants to cling to. The net is fine enough that you can't see it from more than a few feet away, and not at all once the plants cover it, but the plants cling to it instead of the actual column. It's a pretty good compromise solution, since you do actually have to attach it to the house firmly to hold the weight of the plant. I'm sure your garden center would have it.
Edit: I am such a derailer! I shoulda just bumped the landscaping thread...
[ April 11, 2005, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Hobbes: Why is Noemon neglecting his space related news thread?
Actually, he hasn't been posting nearly as many links as he usually does. He tends to fade in and out with that. He is apparently somewhere in the "out" phase of his fading at the moment.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
CT is right!
That netting sounds like a *great* idea Eljay! I'll definitely be looking into it.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:You don't want me as a politician. Ironically, that's where my highest mark is. Ironically, that's probably because of Hatrack (woo! Understanding American Politics!). Ironically, my lowest marks are in English. Ironically, I want to write.
My worst marks were in math, and my best marks were in philosophy and creative writing. Yet here I am in the chemical process industry.
Bottom line: marks are largely irrelevant.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
::How did he *know* that? First the roses and then this! It's...uncanny.::
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Noemon's un-asked, but implied question: What is the best way to have my roses climb my house?
Actually, contrary to name, "climbing roses" are not really "climbers" in the sence wysteria or ivy or morning-glory is. Roses do not twine around structures like wysteria or morning-glory, nor do they put out suckers or climbing roots like English Ivy or Boston Ivy. Climbing Roses actually are roses that just send out extra long, upright, somewhat flexible canes. To actually make them "climb" you have to anchor the individual canes to something. (I.E. you have to tie them to the trellis as strategic points or you have to buy some other fastening devices, all of which can be bought at a good nursury.) There are nails with wires or lead(Pb) strips attached which can be set into walls and then used to tie back the roses, or you can put up a trellis and use plastic twist-ties to fasten the canes to it. There are also some wire thingies you can cement onto a smooth wall with epoxy and then bend around the rose canes to fasten them.
Second implied question: I'm trying to decide, now, whether I should put in trellises between the plant and the house, or actually let the roses climb the columns.
Personally, I'd let the roses "climb" (see above) the columns. You can bend the canes as the roses grow and just tie them at intervals around the columns, avoiding the necessity of actually nailing anything into the columns.
The disadvantages of growing plants right onto the house is that plants harbor moisture (and insects), which can damage paint and wood over time. Also if you remove the plant later, there is almost definitely going to be a stain on the paint or some discoloration where the plant was. How much you can live with all this totally depends on how anal you are about a pristine paint job and how much you think you will keep on top of keeping the plant debris and bug free.
[ April 11, 2005, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Noemon sentence that begs to be addressed: That netting sounds like a *great* idea Eljay! I'll definitely be looking into it.
The netting ElJay is talking about is excellent for morning-glory or clematis or some other light vines, but I would be very surprised if it worked well for most climbing roses. In my experience the netting is too weak to "train" the canes of roses, and a more substantial vine like wysteria will just tear it off and laugh at you. YMMV.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
*grin* It works well for getting trumpet vines started, too, but I'm imagining it will become superfluous in one more season, as the vine gets big enough to take over my back porch.
Posted by Trashcan_Man (Member # 7345) on :
Thanks for your replies. You guys don't really have to worry. I'm not thinking about it as much. I feel like I should say something else but I don't really know what else to say.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Karl, thanks for all of the information! Much appreciated.
Trashcan_Man, glad that you're doing better. Nonetheless, it wouldn't hurt to talk to a therapist about the situation. You want to avoid tamping the subject down and laying a veneer of "being okay with it" down over it. Eventually it'll come to the surface again, and it'll be that much harder to deal with then for not having dealt with it now. I'm not necessarily saying that that's what you're doing, mind you; you just want to be careful to make sure that it *isn't* what you're doing.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Why the crap am I still awake?
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
And the corollary to why am I still awake: Why do I stay up too late every night even though I am tired?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Wow! I seemed to have missed this awesome thread!
Oh magical mystical KarlEd: When will I find true love and a good job?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Noemon: Why the crap am I still awake?
Because you enjoy life so much you're afraid you'll miss something good if you go to sleep.
Ela: And the corollary to why am I still awake: Why do I stay up too late every night even though I am tired?
See above answer.
TtheS: When will I find true love and a good job?
When you start getting to bed before midnight on a weeknight. True love is looking for you right now, but he's got a day job and has to be in bed by 10:00 PM. (Though I didn't say he had to be sleeping by 10. )
Also, most "good jobs" require you to be sleeping at this hour. There's a good one on the horizon, but you'll have to be awake and well rested at the appropriate hour to get it. Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Will the Liberals keep their minority government? and if not who will win?
Next, will the republicans win again in 2008?
[ April 15, 2005, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Sid Meier ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
How can I make my friend feel better when she thinks her dreams have been smashed?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Why do straight men drool over gay women?
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
Hep, i have a question :
Who am I ?
Difficult, no ? Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Sid Meier: Will the Liberals keep their minority government? and if not who will win?
Sheesh! Doesn't anyone have a non-crystal-ball question? Anyway, after the last election I've taken a hiatus from political prognostication. I can tell you that I'd like to see both houses in Congress taken over by level-headed moderates of any stripe. But I'd like to see peace on Earth, too.
Next, will the republicans win again in 2008?
Some will win and some will lose. . . .
. . . .some were born to sing the blues. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Teshi: How can I make my friend feel better when she thinks her dreams have been smashed?
First, be her friend and support here in her disappointment. Let her cry about her loss or failure, and just listen. Most people need to vent and know they are being heard. When something bad happens, a lot of people are looking for sympathy for a while before they're looking for advice or remedies. As she progresses beyond this stage (which is different for different people) remind her that it's never over until it's over. Until then there are only set-backs. Help her re-evaluate her goals, and if they haven't changed, help her see alternative ways around whatever it is that has seemingly smashed her dreams.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
katharina: Why do straight men drool over gay women?
Somewhat odd to ask that of a gay man, but I'll tackle the question. First, you have to get your definitions right. Straight men aren't attracted to "gay women". They are often attracted to Lesbians (tm). (Note the (tm). ) Straight men are attracted to the porn fantasy of two women together as it has been marketed to them in Hustler. This is understandable because these women are basically sex objects and nothing more. Straight men are attracted to women generally, so two of them together is twice as nice. Also, in this porn fantasy there is always the possibility of the holder of the fantasy getting in on the action.
One of the first things many men will say about a woman who isn't interested in him is that she must be "a dyke". This is also used to describe women who are strong, or authoritative, or who don't care much for make-up, dresses, or other stereotypically feminine things. Perceived lesbianism (or "gayness") in this context certainly isn't being thought of as something desirable (to the males). It is clear that it isn't the gayness of lesbians that is the turn-on. It's the hyper-sexuality of Lesbians (tm) that is the turn-on. As to exactly why that is, you'd have to ask one of them. I imagine it's for the same reason seeing two guys together turns me on.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Choobak: Who am I ?
You are Choobak.
Difficult, no ?
No.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Where does the next great adventure lie in your life?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Christy: Where does the next great adventure lie in your life?
The next "great adventure" in my foreseeable future is getting my house in a presentable condition. This is going to be especially difficult because I've run out of available cash (for the most part) and still have some major repairs left to do. Luckily those remaining repairs can wait for a little while.
Along with that is learning to become an active member of my community as a partnered gay man living in small-town PA. I'm trying to build a life with Chris that is mutually deeply rewarding. I'm also trying to stay in a good position to help my Mom in her last few years before retirement so she can enjoy that when the time comes.
I'm also toying with the idea of a career change, but it's still in the "toying" phase and has been for a while.
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
You're too strong KarlEd !
Posted by ProverbialSunrise (Member # 7771) on :
Why does the window size for the Hatrack forums sometimes go bigger than the size of my screen so I have to scroll sideways as well as up and dowm?
Posted by Lurker-Girl (Member # 7802) on :
What is the most important quality you look for (or value) in a SO? (My apologies if that's not the correct term).
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
PS, I know that one...but I will let Karl have the first answer, it IS his thread after all..... Posted by Lurker-Girl (Member # 7802) on :
Kwea, I'm assuming you're referring to my question and not the one above it. I'd love to know your answer, too, after Karl's given his..... Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Why oh why didn't I read this thread earlier? It's teh awesome!
So here are some questions for you dear. Have you ever regretted bringing your cute mom to live nearby? Would I be crazy to move far away from my family to which I give a lot of support and vice versa?
As a 6'0 tall female returned missionary with a (almost) Master's Degree, do you think I intimidate people, namely men? If so, what do you think I might do to soften that a little?
Or should I just realize that the kind of guy I want will like me because I'm intimidating?
Hm. I think that's enough questions for now.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
ProverbialSunrise: Why does the window size for the Hatrack forums sometimes go bigger than the size of my screen so I have to scroll sideways as well as up and dowm?
There is something in some posts that disables the auto-wrap function in that post, making it display in one long line. What that is, I do not know, but I have seen what you describe and I believe this is the cause. Sorry to not have a clearer answer, but I've never claimed to be a UBB maven. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Lurker-Girl: What is the most important quality you look for (or value) in a SO? (My apologies if that's not the correct term).
That term is fine.
The most important quality I value in a SO is kindness. Many negative qualities can be ameliorated by kindness, and many other good qualities can be perverted if they are present in overwhelming proportion. (I.E. One can be too honest, or too thrifty, or too tidy IMO.) Another quality I value is passion. I don't mean sex, here. I think it's a given that everyone wants their SO to be passionate about them. But what I mean in this case is a strong and motivating love for something other than me, preferably for something we can share, but that's not essential.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Hey, KarlEd!
How is it possible that I have someone on my Netflix Friends list who absolutely HATED Pirates of the Caribbean?
*casts dubious eyes at Netflixies whose names/screennames she can't even remember*
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Narnia: Why oh why didn't I read this thread earlier?
Because until now you were content with all the other things in life for which you hold greater interest. Now you have either emptied your queue enough, or accumulated sufficient boredom enough that you are compelled to find out what is in this thread.
Have you ever regretted bringing your cute mom to live nearby?
"Cute mom"? Have you seen my mom? Anyway, to answer your question: No, I haven't regretted moving her next door one minute. In fact, I'm very happy to have her closer. More importantly (to me at least) she told me recently that she hasn't regretted one minute of moving next door.
Would I be crazy to move far away from my family to which I give a lot of support and vice versa?
Crazy? No. There are many legitimate reasons to move away from your extended family. However, don't know your specific situation so I can't tell you my opinion on your choices, if that's what you're asking.
As a 6'0 tall female returned missionary with a (almost) Master's Degree, do you think I intimidate people, namely men?
I don't know you personally, but from that description, I think it is very possible that you do intimidate many men. In my experience, many (but not all) men are intimidated by intelligent and/or assertive women.
If so, what do you think I might do to soften that a little?
I don't necessarily think you should. Being assertive and intelligent is not in itself a shortcoming. If you "play dumb" to win a man, you're just going to win a dumb man. And assuming your assertiveness isn't in pathological proportions it might not be in your best interests to tone it down on the off chance you'll be more palatable to some theoretical man.
Or should I just realize that the kind of guy I want will like me because I'm intimidating? Because of that or in spite of that, either way they'll be meeting you on your terms. The trick is knowing yourself and making sure that you aren't using intimidation as a defense mechanism to avoid intimacy. If you are reasonably sure that those qualities that scare some men off are present in you in healthy quantities I say hold off for the man that will love you and not some watered down version of you he might find easier to handle.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Olivetta: How is it possible that I have someone on my Netflix Friends list who absolutely HATED Pirates of the Caribbean?
Clearly you accept Netflix friend invitations indiscriminately.
But seriously, that movie is hilarious, so clearly they have a under-developed sense of humor and appreciation of style. And you'd think that between Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightly there'd be enough eye candy alone to satisfy anyone, even if they didn't appreciate the movie itself. Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Just to add to Narnia's magic 8-ball answer:
You're tall and some men will be put off by that. It's not a failing or a flaw - its a quirk of taste from the men.
It doesn't make you any less important or attractive than if you were shorter.
Oh yeah - stop slouching.
-Trevor
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*hugs Narnia* Excellent advice. The price of toning yourself down for some guy is that you can never be yourself or really comfortable with him. Forget that.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
(((Karl))) Thank you. No, I haven't seen your mom, but from your description of her finer qualities, I just assumed that she's cute. Am I right?
And thanks Trevor and Katie. I liked your term 'watered-down.' I think I've been dating a guy (over the summers) that makes me like that. I'm just a little quieter, a little less irreverent... I was talking to JemmyGrove about him and JG said "So, this guy makes you boring, is that it?" Hm. Probably.
Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions Karl. You're a sweetie.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
To ask a horribly embarassing and intrusive question (note that I'm carefully sitting a little farther away from my computer as I write this), is there any reason you're not dating JemmyGrove (this is where I hope that my vague impression that JG is male is true)?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Narnia: No, I haven't seen your mom, but from your description of her finer qualities, I just assumed that she's cute. Am I right?
Well, I don't think anyone has ever called my mom "cute". She's a beautiful person of formidable pioneering strength. She has also been accused of being "intimidating". Partially that is because her "pensive" mood is sometimes easily mistaken for "pissed off". I don't think she's ever felt "pretty", and partly because of that she eschews primping products like make-up, etc. But she's beautiful to me, at least.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
katharina: is there any reason you're not dating JemmyGrove (this is where I hope that my vague impression that JG is male is true)?
I'm happily partnered with Chris. That and I have never met JemmyGrove. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*contemplates a wedgie*
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
The question, Narnia, does he make you be quieter whether actively or passively, or does he accept you for who you are and as a result, you don't feel the need to be more grandiose than you might otherwise be?
Not everyone enjoys being the Roman candle burning bright, in the forests of the night.
-Trevor
PS And I apologize to any poetry lovers for butchering a much-beloved poem. Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
Since this is a thread to ask KarlEd questions, I have to wonder if kat has read the thread carefully because it seems like KarlEd already has a man, Chris.
[edit:crap, I type slow!]
KarlEd, it seems like gay couples fall into the same patterns as heterosexual couples, with one taking the role of being the emotional, caretaker type and the other being the macho, provider, protector type. Do you find this to be true, and if so, why? Is it because heterosexual couples are the more frequent examples (or the only examples) growing up? Is there a stable alternative?
And a second question (or series of questions): Stereotypically, a heterosexual male would want a perfect mate to be like the women in The Stepford Wives. In the most recent version of that movie, the "wife" half of the gay couple was made more macho, less outrageous, etc. This led me to the question, do gay men, as stereotyped by the gay community, want a mate that is more macho, provider, protector type, or a more emotional, caretaker type? Or is it split evenly?
(Readers, please note that stereotypes do not reflect reality. They are merely a misperceived, over-generalized notion of reality.)
[ April 18, 2005, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: JonnyNotSoBravo ]
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Katie, that's an interesting question. KarlEd already answered it, so I guess I don't have to now.
Just kidding. Yes JemmyGrove is male and yes there are reasons that we're not dating, but we are very good friends...good enough that he can tell if I'm 'watering myself down' for a guy. You know? (that was for Katie) Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Okay. I thought there probably were reasons, since he seems to know you very well and y'all weren't. Friends like that, who can tell when you aren't happy with someone else, are grand treasures. Lucky Narnia. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
QUOTE]ProverbialSunrise: Why does the window size for the Hatrack forums sometimes go bigger than the size of my screen so I have to scroll sideways as well as up and down? [/QUOTE]
Karl is right, the auto wrap is disabled, but what he didn't know it that it is a long link...usually a really really long link....that causes it. If the auto wrap broke it up it wouldn't work, so the UBB just expands the window size....and since the window is now that size it stays that size for every post.
There is a way around this though, called tinyurl., which takes a really long URL and creates a shorter one for you, free of charge.
Please use it. That is all.
Also, it you make a sentance with no breaks that is too long, like KarlEd did on page 5, it can happen, although this is far more rare.
quote: What is the most important quality you look for (or value) in a SO? (My apologies if that's not the correct term).
Well, for me the correct term is the same as my answer....my wife.
I wasn't sure when I met Jenni if she was "the one", although I have no doubt now. I think that I had been looking so hard for so long that I really, really never thought it would happen, that I would never find someone I who would love me as I am rather than what they thought they could make me be. I had that offer more than once, let me tell you, but I have a lot of quirks that I LIKE, and that I didn't want to give up.
I like classical music, played the flute, and like Broadway musicals...but I am not nor ever have been gay. I got that...not a ton, but some women couldn't understand why a healthy male would turn down "free" sex....so when I said I wanted more than that, about half of them assumed I was gay. I don't care what others want, a lot of my friends didn't have the same ideas I had about sex and relationships, and that was fine....but I know what I wanted, and it wasn't to sleep around my whole life.
Funny, that...just because I held myself to a higher standard than most men, something that most women claim that they want in a man, I HAD to be gay...because everyone KNOWS that men all want sex all the time, and have no morals, right?
So when I met Jenni, I was still recovering from a woman who had wrecked me emotionally, and I wasn't ready for her yet. She had a crush on me, it was painfully obvious, but I avoided her.
She is the best thing that ever happened to me, but if I had jumped right in I wouldn't have been willing to compromise yet, and I would have lost her.
She is kind, and honest, and loving....very smart, and very verbal as well, so that I don't have to explain my verbal tangents or repeat myself no mater how fast I talk ....she is musical, loves dogs, children....and me. She accepts and loves me as I am, flaws and all, and while she might want specific things, she is honest about wanting them rather than being manipulative about them. She has the same morals and values I do, for all the important issues that we discussed.
And I felt comfortable around her from the start. I was a little scared how fast we went and how natural it felt, considering my past history, but it just felt right. Not as fast as quidscribs or some of the others here at Hatrack, but fairly fast for me.
Hope that helps.
[ April 27, 2005, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
JonnyNotSoBravo: it seems like gay couples fall into the same patterns as heterosexual couples, with one taking the role of being the emotional, caretaker type and the other being the macho, provider, protector type. Do you find this to be true, and if so, why? Is it because heterosexual couples are the more frequent examples (or the only examples) growing up?
I don't really find that to be true. In both of the long-term relationships I have had I and my partner have fulfilled a mix of different roles for one another. Some of them are stereotypically female roles and some are more stereotypically manly. But I've never been in a relationship where those roles were divided clearly along gender lines. Douglas (my ex) made more money than I and was better at managing it for a long time. Some might say he was the "provider" in that respect, but only by a small margin. He certainly wasn't the "macho" one of the two of us, but then again, I'm not particularly "macho" either, but neither of us are particularly effeminite either. I'm more the bread-winner in my current relationship, but Chris gives me the emotional recharge I need, most of the time. But I do the cooking and he does the laundry and when the rest of the housekeeping gets done at all we usually split it fairly evenly.
Implied but un-asked question: If not, why?
Everyone falls in a different place along the gender spectrum. Even two fairly macho guys will conceivably fall with one a little closer to the feminine side than the other. Because our culture so ingrains us to think of roles and traits as they fit into a male/female dichotomy, the outside observer will want to amplify those differences in order to assign "opposing" gender roles to partners in a relationship, even if they both fall on the macho side of Grizzly Adams. In most of the gay relationships (gay and lesbian) that I have known, there really is no clear macho/girly division.
This led me to the question, do gay men, as stereotyped by the gay community, want a mate that is more macho, provider, protector type, or a more emotional, caretaker type? Or is it split evenly?
I think most gay men who are seeking a life partner are looking for an individual who completes them emotionally. Few would say they are looking for a macho provider or a caretaker. Most gay men are pretty autonomous in the providing and caretaking (practical) aspects of life so what they look for in a partner aside from sexual compatibility is a friend and companion. What exactly they are looking for to fit that bill is unique to the individual and extremely difficult to classify in a male/female stereotypical sense. That said, there are those gay men who are looking for a "daddy" or a "boy-toy" or something equally shallow, but I don't think shallowness in choosing a partner is unique to gays, or even much more prevalent than among straights.
If this doesn't adequately answer your question, I welcome any follow-up questions.
NOTE: I don't take offense to questions about stereotypes. I recognize they exist, and usually for a reason. I believe the reason many gay stereotypes exist, however, is because only a minority of homosexual men are readily identifiable as such, and those tend to be the more flamboyant, thus skewing the stereotype.
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
Wow, great answer. I have another question, but it talks about sex, so Papa Janitor, feel free to edit or tell us to stop talking about it and I can take the discussion to sakeriver.
When I get together with my gay female friends, we pretty much don't discuss sex. They're pretty comfortable with me viewing their sexuality (i.e. they kiss in front of me, we go out to straight and gay clubs together). When I get together with a bunch of my gay male friends however, there's sex talk all the time. They talk about the guy waiters and who is cute and who is not and flirt with the poor waiter, who doesn't realize what's going on half the time. Their sexual innuendo is very strong and very explicit. They talk about the anonymous sex they've had in the bathrooms of clubs, or the male celebrities they'd most like to have sex with, etc.
So my question is this: Do you think this clear division among my gay friends is an anomaly? Or perhaps because my gay male friends feel comfortable talking about sex in the presence of another guy, but my gay female friends feel uncomfortable talking about it in front of the opposite sex? Are gay men's sexual libidos just that much higher than gay women's (it might be hard for you to estimate this - I don't know how many lesbians you know)?
But maybe this is another spectrum question, and the gay male friends I have are just flamboyant (which could definitely be true - they are very "out", only without the crazily stereotyped wardrobe).
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
It's because they're guys.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
New question. Just because I don't want to read all of this and prefer to interrupt.
Is it true, or do you believe that it is, that anyone who commits suicide goes to hell?
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
quote:Friends like that, who can tell when you aren't happy with someone else, are grand treasures. Lucky Narnia.
You're right Katie. Even I don't realize just how lucky I am.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
katharina: (you deleted your question.
I read it before I left work but didn't write the response. I had to pick up my aunt from the airport.)
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Karl, I just want to say thanks for the advice about my friend. It really helped me. Thank you! Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
JonnyNotSoBravo: Do you think this clear division among my gay friends is an anomaly? Or perhaps because my gay male friends feel comfortable talking about sex in the presence of another guy, but my gay female friends feel uncomfortable talking about it in front of the opposite sex?
Chris said very succinctly basically what I'm going to say, with this addition: People are likely to talk more openly about sex with people who aren't prospective sexual partners. Gay men who talk like your friends probably aren't (or are at least no longer) sleeping with one another. In my experience, women usually don't talk about sex around straight men, but many women have no problem dishing about sex and relationships with gay men. Granted there are many many people who feel that sex isn't a polite topic of discussion in any social group, but among those for whom the subject itself isn't taboo, they tend to talk more freely when there isn't someone of the "opposite" sex in the room.
Are gay men's sexual libidos just that much higher than gay women's . . . ?
I imagine they are higher than gay women's to the degree that straight men's libidos are higher than straight women's. Men, in general, are very sexual beings, and many, if not most, will follow any topic of discussion to the lowest common denominator of any given social group, and sometimes well beyond that.
Also, there is a tendency for some gay men to like to tease their straight male friends with such talk. Sort of trying to see if you can be easily scandalized, or something. The flirting with the waiter is probably something similar to a group of straight men flirting with their female waitperson.
But maybe this is another spectrum question, and the gay male friends I have are just flamboyant
Could be. I, myself, wouldn't always be evidence of this, though . But I do have gay friends who prefer to keep the level of conversation out of the gutter most of the time.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
SteveRogers: Is it true, or do you believe that it is, that anyone who commits suicide goes to hell?
I'm not sure at all that there is life after death, but I firmly believe that the only hell after death is the one you take with you.
Suicide solves very little, and I believe it is seldom (like almost never) the right choice. That said, I think there is strong evidence that some suicides are the result of severe clinical depression to the degree that the person has lost control over their actions or their ability to see any other option. I believe that some people can get to the point of suicide through no actual fault of their own. If this is true, what kind of a god would condemn such a person to hell? None that I could worship or respect. YMMV.
[ April 19, 2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Teshi, anytime. Glad you found something of value in that. Posted by Lurker-Girl (Member # 7802) on :
KarlEd and Kwea: Thank you so much for answering my question! It was nice to get more than one answer/opinion.....
Kwea: My apologies for making a false assumption about which question you were referring to--thanks so much for answering anyway!
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Uuhhhhh Karl... I mean't the Canadian Liberal Party not the democrats or whoever is liberal in your country.
Next question: Doy ou watch Babylon 5?
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
Do you like the show Queer as Folk? Do you believe it reinforces bad stereotypes?
Narnia: I about an inch shorter then you and I have the same problems. I think it is a combination of my height and my confidence. Neither of which I am able or willing to give up. I am hoping the guys in college are more secure.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I think for Narnia, it's because she's such a good choir director all the guys are afraid that she's make them sing all of the time or something.
Hobbes Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:I am hoping the guys in college are more secure.
Yes, they are.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Sid Meier: I mean't the Canadian Liberal Party not the democrats or whoever is liberal in your country.
Well, my answer would probably be the same. A moderate conservative or liberal is probably better for the country than an extremist of either stripe.
Doy ou watch Babylon 5?
No, sorry. Not that I have anything against it. It's just that my TV viewing time is limited and already full of other things I enjoy watching.
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
a very difficult question for you :
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood ?
Explain your answer. Posted by Beanny (Member # 7109) on :
Do you believe in heaven?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Allegra: Do you like the show Queer as Folk?
Not particularly. It's probably no worse than any other "prime time soap opera" but I find most of the characters to be so shallow and selfish that I can't relate to them.
Do you believe it reinforces bad stereotypes?
That's a good question. I think it does, but primarily because it has been touted as this groundbreaking show that finally puts gay themes on mainstream TV. If there were more gay themed shows, especially shows that were about real characters instead of gay cardboard cutouts, then I don't think it would be any more than significant than Melrose Place, and have just about as much influence.
Another problem part of the problem of the show is that every single character's entire life revolves around their sexuality. I don't know any humans as obsessed with their gayness as the characters in that show. Most of us have gay sex, but most of us don't have only gay friends, wear only gay clothes, take gay showers, walk gay dogs, eat gay food, or sleep with every UPS guy or mailroom clerk that raises an eyebrow.
It's really too bad, though. There have been a couple of interesting plotlines and important issues addressed on a couple of episodes. I think it could have been an important and interesting show, but they sold out for shock value and shallow drama.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Choobak: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood ?
All the wood that a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.
Explain your answer.
Well, a woodchuck cannot be expected to chuck more than it is able. Even the most agressive and able-bodied woodchuck has his limitations. Those limitations, by definition, describe the amount of wood a given woodchuck will be able to chuck in a given time period. Furthermore, the question doesn't specify if we are talking about North American woodchucks or South American woodchuck and thus is left sufficiently vague as to cover any instance of woodchuck or similar chucker of wood-like substances who may . . . zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Beanny: Do you believe in heaven?
I believe there is some possibility of an afterlife. I hope there is, but whether there is or isn't is largely moot for me. Knowing one way or the other probably wouldn't change much for me. I think focusing too much on either possibility tends to distract us from the one life we know we have.
My concept of an after-life is simply continued conciousness after the death of my physical body. What sort of plane that consciousness might exist in or what mechanism might maintain that consciousness is so beyond my ability to theorize I couldn't begin to tell you what it might be. But if it doesn't involve the continuing of my consciousness, what I consider "me", with my memories and my personality, then it is no more "afterlife" than having the molecules of my body absorbed into a tree would be "afterlife".
As for heaven, I know more about what I believe it isn't. I believe it isn't a place of eternal leisure. I believe it doesn't involve clouds and harps and halos. I believe if it exists at all it is because of the people who are there more than where or what "there" is.
Again, if this doesn't make sense to you or is an inadequate answer, I invite any follow-up questions. Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
You're really too strong
Do you give some lesson ? Have you wrwriten a book or method ? I want to be your student. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Choobak: Do you give some lesson ?
I teach only by example. Whether that is an example to emulate or avoid is very much open to debate.
Have you wrwriten a book or method ?
What, and take time away from posting here? Blasphemy!
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I've got a personal question. What happened to that franchise opportunity you were looking into? Did it work out, or what made you shy away from it?
AJ
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
BannaOj: What happened to that franchise opportunity you were looking into? Did it work out, or what made you shy away from it?
I'm still looking into it. If I do it, it will tax my equity to the absolute limit. I'm still trying to crunch some numbers to find out if it is really feasible for me in this area.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Hey Karl -- What's the best tool to remove dandalions from my garden? I don't want to use chemicals, so I need something that'll help get out the whole root. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
ElJay: What's the best tool to remove dandalions from my garden? I don't want to use chemicals, so I need something that'll help get out the whole root.
There is a tool you can usually find in the garden section of most major hardware chains (and can probably find at many nurseries) in the same section as the trowels and cultivators, etc. It is basically a handle with an angled rod than ends in a flattened piece that looks like a snake's tongue or reversed arrow-head. To use this tool, you gather up the dandelion leaves in one hand, place the end of the tool next to the taproot and push it down as far as you can. Wiggle the tool as you are pulling up on the plant and if you are careful you can pull the whole plant out, taproot and all. This tool works well on most weeds that have a taproot.
If you are really concerned about dandelions, though, you need to get in the habit of pulling off the yellow flowers anytime you see them anywhere near your property, even if you don't have time to pull the whole plant.
I, personally don't mind dandelions unless they are crowding out something I like better. If I'm digging a new bed or see one cropping up among my daisies or something like that, I'll pull it. I don't really bother too much with the ones in the yard.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
What, exactly, does something being "aesthetically pleasing" actually mean? When defining a painting of someone nude as being art (as opposed to porn), is the phrase "aesthetically pleasing" (or another variant of the phrase) an accepted excuse for liking the picture because it is based on something other than lust? What is this mysterious something? Is the issue of whether something has some inherent quality of aesthetically pleasing-ness important only to those who ideologically object, in theory, to the idea of lusting over someone's picture, and was the term invented to give them some justification for oogling nekkid people? Do people who have no qualms about oogling the aforementioned nekkid people really have any use for the phrase "aesthetically pleasing" beyond euphemism?
(Sorry. Been having art school flashbacks all day. *grin*)
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Thanks! That's kinda what I was thinking, but wanted confirmation it worked.
I don't mind the ones in the yard, but I've got some in my veggie garden this year.... which I know if I don't mind the ones in the yard will happen, but eh. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Zotto!: What, exactly, does something being "aesthetically pleasing" actually mean?
"Aesthetically pleasing" means "appealing to the observer's sense of beauty."
When defining a painting of someone nude as being art (as opposed to porn), is the phrase "aesthetically pleasing" (or another variant of the phrase) an accepted excuse for liking the picture because it is based on something other than lust? What is this mysterious something?
The "mysterious something" is beauty. "Beauty" and "Lust" define specific sets that are not congruent, but do intersect. Your confusion likely arises from the intersecting nature of the sets "porn" and "art". "Aesthetically pleasing" is not in itself a euphemism, though it might be used as such by someone ashamed of revealing their lusts.
Is the issue of whether something has some inherent quality of aesthetically pleasing-ness important only to those who ideologically object, in theory, to the idea of lusting over someone's picture, and was the term invented to give them some justification for oogling nekkid people?
Again, while some few people might use the phrase as such, it was not "invented" for them. The phrase is very useful in ways that don't involve lust, porn, nudity, or graphic representations of humans at all.
Do people who have no qualms about oogling the aforementioned nekkid people really have any use for the phrase "aesthetically pleasing" beyond euphemism?
Yes. I use the phrase relatively frequently and never as a euphemism. I also have no qualms about "oogling [consenting] nekkid people".
One reason I find the phrase useful is because too often we equate "beautiful" with "pretty". Much art is beautiful, but not remotely pretty. (This can be said of things outside of "art", too, and there the phrase might be useful as well, but I digress.) In art, there is also the term "erotic art" which is also often used as a euphemism for "porn" or "sex toy", but taken at face value describes the intersection of the sets "Beautiful" and "Lust Arousing" (including intent as well as result). What specific objects fall into these categories - and once categorized, which fall into the intersection - is different for each person. You might find a photo of a naked woman erotic and beautiful; at least one gay male friend of mine would look away in disgust, finding the photo neither erotic nor beautiful; I, myself, find a well-proportioned (subjective), tastefully done (subjective), rendition of the female form "aesthetically pleasing" but not in the least erotic.
Now, one might secretly suspect that elements of lust creep in on some level in everyone's appreciation of erotic art (as the phrasing of your questions seem to imply - but here I could be misreading you). I would disagree and add that making that assumption is unfair and rather arrogant. Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
You have expressed pleasure in naked gardening. What other sensual experiences do you recommend?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Jenny Gardener: You have expressed pleasure in naked gardening. What other sensual experiences do you recommend?
Er, that was semi-naked gardening. I wouldn't inflict the full Monty on anyone except Chris.
But other sensual experiences I'd recommend: Walking barefoot on the beach. Sipping chilled Liqueur de Frigolet on a warm evening. Soaking in a hottub. Eating fresh ripe strawberries on a cool spring morning while sitting outside with your legs dangling off the porch. Giving your sweetie a long strong hug. Driving far enough away from town on a clear night to find a dark place and gazing at the stars (even better if you see a meteor). Taking time to really admire a perfect blossom of just about any flower, (even dandelions work for this). Putting on underwear, a T-shirt, or socks fresh out of the dryer. Getting an alcohol rub-down on a hot summer day. Making a cat purr. Making your boyfriend purr. And sitting outside for 5 minutes with your eyes closed noticing all the sounds and smells you miss when you aren't paying attention.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I really hate that phrase.
I keep trying to complete the comment with, "the full Monty Python?"
-Trevor
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
Alas, I fear I was hopelessly unclear in my last post. I blame the mind-fog that affected my typing on my perpetual insomnia combined with sunburn from the day's activities, and I thank you for replying intelligently to my babble. *grin*
I was specifically talking about the line that divides tastefully done "aesthetically pleasing" nude art and "porn"; I am aware that the phrase is used to describe other things, such as the layout of a room or the placement of flowers or whatever.
But...how can this "beauty" be defined, in regards to figures? Is a concrete definition even possible between people with wildly different backgrounds and mindsets? I don't like things being subjective; I prefer to think that we just don't have the language yet to describe the things that we think of as being subjective. Of course, I could be wrong *laugh*.
If a painting of a nude and a Playboy are sitting next to each other, what is it that defines the "artistic-ness" of the former and the "pornographic-ness" of the latter?
You are correct in that I did frame my questions from the point of view of someone who believes that lusting over a picture of someone is wrong, cuz that's my position. (You're also correct that I'm arrogant and unfair at times, but we shan't go into that. )
The questions were asked because I have noticed that I *do* make a distinction between porn and erotic art when I'm painting, and I don't understand the distinction I'm making. I was aware of people who do *not* have a problem with "oogling people" and I was wondering where *they* draw the lines between porn and art. Am *I*, in fact, using the phrase "aesthetically pleasing" to cover up the fact that secretly I find the pictures arousing so that I do not have to face the fact that I am doing something I object to ideologically? I don't *think* I am, but then...I can't define WHY, and I don't like it *grin*.
I also apologize for the word "invented". Twas a typo; or rather, a word-substitution. Should have been "implemented", as in: when people who have no problem with lusting over a picture use the phrase "aesthetically pleasing", are they saying that as a euphemism, or are they seeing the picture as both arousing AND aesthetically pleasing in a non-arousing way? If so, what is it that is aesthetically pleasing to them that does NOT involve lust in some way? Are they in fact separating the two? Where?
I meant no offense, if there was any taken (my offense-o-meter is showing a slight reading, but maybe it's low on batteries). I am really just trying to understand.
(Honestly, I butchered the way I asked these questions...I was in the mindset of a particular class I had when I was in art school, and the fact that, uh, you weren't even THERE conveniently slipped my mind. I was using definitions in ways specific to that class and referring to specific objections raised IN that class, so it's no wonder there was confusion. My fault. Sigh. *kicks brain*)
quote:One reason I find the phrase useful is because too often we equate "beautiful" with "pretty". Much art is beautiful, but not remotely pretty.
*nods* I really like that, dude. Puts into words some of my thoughts on the matter.
Sigh. Perhaps I should ask questions that might have answers. *grin*
Edit: Holy crap, I've sure been writing essays lately. These posts don't look nearly as long when I'm *typing* them. O_O
'Nother edit: forgot to mention, those are suuuure some nice sensual pleasures up there. *grin* *takes notes*
[ April 22, 2005, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Zotto! ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Zotto!: But...how can this "beauty" be defined, in regards to figures? Is a concrete definition even possible between people with wildly different backgrounds and mindsets?
It may sound trite, but there is wisdom in the phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I think a concrete definition of beauty is impossible, precisely because (as you point out) people have "wildly different backgrounds and mindsets". Now I believe it is possible that civil dialog can assist in teaching others to see your own point of view. Before I were to try to convince someone of my view, however, I'd ask myself if I was trying to teach them to see beauty, or trying to steal the beauty they see and replace it with lasciviousness.
If a painting of a nude and a Playboy are sitting next to each other, what is it that defines the "artistic-ness" of the former and the "pornographic-ness" of the latter?
You presume too much in your question. I'd argue that being painted or drawn does not preclude a nude figure from being pornographic, nor does appearing in a nudie magazine automatically make a photo of a nude figure void of artistic merit.
In the 60's and 70's gay pornography was tightly regulated. Publishers got around some of the regualations by publishing "art study" magazines of the male form. These magazines, from that era, are filled with photos of nude men in non-specifically sexual poses. Some posed like Greek or Roman statues, others in more modern settings. Something like this illustrates the difficulty of defining what is art and what is pornography. It seems clear to me that these were meant to be pornography marketed to gay men of that era. However, I find many of these photos to be artistic as well. Just because any artistic qualities of these photos was created specifically to allow them to squeak past the porno-police does not, in my opinion, invalidate them as art. Erotic art, yes, but art nonetheless. Today things have taken a slight turn. Graphic and sometimes extreme gay porn is relatively easy to find. However, most gay bookstores also have a pretty good selection of nude male "art" photo collections. These are usually hardbound, often coffee-table sized books filled with photo studies of male nudes. Some of these are quite artistic. Most are not explicitly pornographic. I have no doubt, though, that many people would look at the whole genre and stamp it with PORN in bright red letters without a second thought. Such is the subjective nature of the label.
You are correct in that I did frame my questions from the point of view of someone who believes that lusting over a picture of someone is wrong, cuz that's my position. (You're also correct that I'm arrogant and unfair at times, but we shan't go into that.
I do not think it is arrogant and unfair to believe as you do. What I believe is arrogant and unfair is to assign ulterior motives to others without just cause. It is fine for you to think a photo is pornographic. It is arrogant and unfair to assume that despite the fact I say I like the photo for its aesthetic value and do not find it pornographic that secretly I'm really lusting over it and just don't want to admit it. See the difference?
when people who have no problem with lusting over a picture use the phrase "aesthetically pleasing", are they saying that as a euphemism, or are they seeing the picture as both arousing AND aesthetically pleasing in a non-arousing way?
Could be either. Could also be that they do not see the picture as arousing at all.
If so, what is it that is aesthetically pleasing to them that does NOT involve lust in some way? Are they in fact separating the two? Where?
Many people find beauty in a form, shape, arc, curve, proportion, or even ideal that is apart from specific subject matter. Others appreciate subject matter over craft in their art. That is why two people will look at the same still life and one will find it artistic and the other will find it boring. That also explains to some degree why some people will collect cat art regardless of its quality. They want it as long as it has a cat on it or in it.
More specific to the human form, I saw a sculpture of a nude female in a gallery in Monterrey, CA. I believe it was bronze, but silver plated over the entire sculpture. She had a cloth over her waist. The cloth and the hair were polished to a high gloss, but everywhere her skin showed, the silver was burnished into a silky matte finish. The effect made her flesh look warm and alive. She was beautiful and beautifully proportioned. I would have bought that sculpture on the spot if I'd had the thousands of dollars they were asking. It really was a captivating statue. I found it extremely aesthetically pleasing, but not in the least arousing. I thought at the time that it was too bad it wasn't a statue of a male nude. If it were, I probably would have found it both aesthetically pleasing and arousing. Because I found it beautiful in a non-sexual way, I could not doubt a straigh man who also claimed to recognize a non-sexual beauty in it. However, because I would love to have seen a male form rendered the same way and recognize that such a statue might very well trigger a more viceral response in me, I have to recognize the possibility that a straight man might find the female statue arousing. But also, because people are attracted to different body types and features in terms of sexual attraction, I also would believe a straight man who thought the statue exquisitely beautiful, but also claimed to not find it arousing in the least.
If you still don't understand the difference, ask yourself this (assuming you are straight): Can you recognize an aesthetic difference between a nude photo of a male athlete and a nude photo of, say, Danny DeVito?
I meant no offense, if there was any taken
None taken. And I really wasn't trying to call you arrogant and unfair, specifically. I was trying to point out that assigning motives to others based only on one's own reactions to a given image is arrogant and unfair.
Sigh. Perhaps I should ask questions that might have answers. *grin*
I hope that I have provided some answers to your general questions. I believe it is possible for some people (myself for instance) to recognize aesthetic appeal apart from lustful appeal in renditions of nudes. However, as to the personal questions about the ability within yourself, only you can answer those. If you believe you can, even if you don't specifically know why you can, does it matter if you can justify that to an outside observer?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I wouldn't inflict the full Monty on anyone except Chris.
[Perks up, then sits back and mopes] Oh, you meant that other one...
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Ah, Karl. You are truly a fellow aesthete.
*raises glass of very fine wine to her friend*
I wish you could come to my May Revel. Dancing barefoot around the maypole, children laughing and blowing bubbles, sitting on blankets in the grass eating fruit and cheese...
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I wish I could, too. Will you have one next year? If so keep me posted. Who knows . . . Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I will have one EVERY year, the first Saturday in May...
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Where are you located, Jenny?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Somewhere in the wilds of Indiana, I believe.
-Trevor
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Zotto!, thank you for keeping my interest in ArtSpeak piqued.
You would probably be interested in the writings of Clement Greenberg, a very famous art critic who I would call a formalist critic - he often talks about very very basic stuff like form and balance and contrast and why things like shapes can be aesthetically pleasing in an objective way. I don't subscribe totally to his conclusions, but he does talk an awful lot about things that are hard to put into words.
This site, though it appears to have been written by the National Coalition of Clement Greenberg's Very Best Buddies, has links to a lot of his writing.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Why don't we do the Terse Movie Slams anymore?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Jenny, if I lived closer, I would be at your Revel. As it is, I may have to settle for taking Emma out a-Maying in sympathy.
On to the question: why does my shoulder hurt so much? Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
My question will require a bit of setup, so I hope you will bear with me.
I had to go back and check in the Landmark Archive to make sure I had my facts straight, and it appears I do. Some of your background is remarkably similar to that of one of my best friends through most of my youth. He grew up in an active LDS family. His immediate family didn't appear to have any particular turmoil, but I later found out about some unpleasant family issues that weren't knowable at the time. He put in his mission papers after I was already on my mission, and he was called to Japan, but he went home from the MTC and never went back.
When I got home from my own mission I didn't see him around. He was living on his own in another city. After a few months, I found out that he was gay. All the years we had been best friends I never had a clue. I was surprised, but not overly much, and it didn't affect the way I though of him. When I went away to college, in the same city where he lived, I finally got to see him a couple of times. We went to lunch once, and another time he brought me over to his apartment to play computer games.
The subject of his sexuality never came up. There wasn't a reason for it to come up. But while I was at his apartment he had to leave to do something else, and left me there with his roommate. Some other friends came over, and it was quite evident that almost all of them were gay. Their conversation, if nothing else, made it clear. They knew of no reason not to be open in front of me, and it didn't bother me. Finally, I got a ride back to the dorms.
I didn't hear back from my friend. I found out later that he had had a fit when he returned and learned that his friends had been so open around me. He thought I didn't know he was gay, and he hadn't intended for me to find out that night, that way. The whole thing put a stop to any efforts to reconnect, or get to know each other again. He soon moved away to San Francisco, and I got into a serious relationship and then got married. I have seen him maybe once since then, and exchanged e-mails one other time.
The problem as I see it: he and I have very different lives now, with no points of intersection. We live in different places, know different people, spend our time differently, etc. He knows I know he's gay, and he also knows my religious faith, and the position the Church takes on homosexuality. He does not know my own feelings or opinions on the subject, or on the matter of his own particular situation, because we have never discussed it.
I think of him often, and want to get in touch with him, but I have doubts. He may not want to hear from me. He may assume that I "disapprove" of him, or he may simply feel bitterness or resentment toward the Church he grew up in and those feelings may color how he sees me. He may simply not have the time.
Finally, here's the question. Are there former friends, people you knew before your mission, or companions from the mission itself, etc., whom you would be interested in reconnecting with? Under what circumstances would the answer be yes, and how do you think it could best be accomplished? Do you feel that there is enough of a break between the two periods of your life that it would be better not to make the attempt?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Olivetta: Why don't we do the Terse Movie Slams anymore?
Probably because everyone has forgotten about them, except you and now me and anyone else who is reading this thread still. That may change if someone starts a new thread for them.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
ketchupqueen: why does my shoulder hurt so much?
Because you have injured it and have not properly rested it enough to fully heal. If the pain is severe and lasts much longer, I'd suggest seeing a doctor. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
UofUlawguy: Are there former friends, people you knew before your mission, or companions from the mission itself, etc., whom you would be interested in reconnecting with?
Yes, definitely. There are many people I met in Brazil who were wonderful friends to me while I was there. There are a few former missionary companions I'd like to catch up with and see how they are doing now. There aren't all that many people I remember much from before my mission. I was very much a loner until I went on my mission. I've been contacted by a couple of highschool acquaintances who found me on the internet and wanted to know if I was that Karl Jennings, but we didn't have much in common except the fact of attending the same highschool so nothing much came of the re-connection.
Under what circumstances would the answer be yes, and how do you think it could best be accomplished?
For most of the people I'd like to reconnect with, the best way would probably be through a letter or email. As for the circumstances, ideally for my ego they would contact me , but I can hardly blame them for not doing so if I, for my part haven't done so either.
Do you feel that there is enough of a break between the two periods of your life that it would be better not to make the attempt?
Better? No. There is enough of a break that my nostalgia isn't likley to override my laziness unless chance puts me closer in contact so I wouldn't have to do so much detective work. But I don't think it would be better not to make the attempt. I initially lost contact with several people when I came out (a complicated, multi-stage process). This was probably for a variety of reasons. I wasn't ready to explain myself, if the need arose. I was still feeling a little embarassment at rejecting something I'd spent so much of my life trying to justify. (I spent a lot of time feeling like a large part of my life had been wasted.) But for the most part, I felt that I no longer had the primary connection with my LDS acquaintances, namely the LDS church. I felt that I had lost that connection and didn't yet feel like I had anything of value to take its place. Maybe at that time I might have thought it was better not to make the attempt.
At this point in my life, though, I don't have those qualms so much. I am happy in my life, for the most part, and I can be happy for others who have found fulfillment in theirs, even if it is through religion.
But more to the point of your question, I don't know your friend, but maybe his point of view is similar to mine: I would be thrilled if anyone from my past contacted me because they were thinking about me and wondered how I was doing. It wouldn't bother me if they knew about my sexuality or how I might have changed in their eyes or not. I have progressed beyond feeling awkward letting people know that I am gay if they didn't know already. I don't think I'd be thrilled to be proselytized or have a friend try to "save" me or something, but I don't think I'd be offended even by that, depending on how close I once felt to them.
I think you should contact your friend. The lack of contact has clearly left some sort of void in your life. Don't be reluctant to share yourself to someone you once cared about. You might find out that he doesn't want to talk to you, in which case you can put it out of your mind. But you might find that he misses you too. You might find out that you still have some things in common, or some new things in common. At any rate, you can feel good that you made the effort.
Maybe I'll take my own advice. Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Karl, thank you very much for your reply.
[ April 26, 2005, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: UofUlawguy ]
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Would it be copacetic if I idolized your equanimity, intelligence, articulation,... and all around coolness? You don't really need to answer, I just wanted to express my admiration of you.
Edit to add a word.
[ April 26, 2005, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
What do oysters think about?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Cabbages and sealing wax, of course.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I figured, but I thought I'd check.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
punwit: Would it be copacetic if I idolized your equanimity, intelligence, articulation,... and all around coolness? You don't really need to answer, I just wanted to express my admiration of you.
Thank you. - wait! er, you're not making fun of my vocabulary, are you? Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Noemon: What do oysters think about?
I'd imagine they think:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-yum- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-tasty-hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-yikes! time to close- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-ok, open slowly-hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-yum- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-yum- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-ack!-bleh!-who put all this crap in the water? I'm trying to eat here!
[ April 27, 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
quote: Thank you. - wait! er, you're not making fun of my vocabulary, are you?
No KarlEd, I really do think you are a top-notch person. NO making fun in that particular post, although I can see, given my history, why you might question a serious post from me. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
KarlED, you broke the frame with your last post....but you know that, right?
[ April 27, 2005, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Kwea: KarlED, you broke the frame with your last post....but you know that, right?
Hmm, actually, I didn't. The frame isn't broken for me. Maybe it's different for different browsers. I'll go add some spaces and maybe it'll work ok.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
How can I avoid turning thoroughly misanthropic?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Megan: How can I avoid turning thoroughly misanthropic?
Short answer, keep posting and reading at Hatrack. You can hardly hate "humankind" when there are all these wonderful people here.
Additionally, surround yourself with people you respect. Take time to nurture good relationships. Be careful, though, to not put individuals on a pedestal. Allow them to be human, just like you are.
Lastly, learn to love yourself and strive to be the kind of person you can love. You can't be thoroughly misathropic if you like yourself.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
One of my mother's best friends died yesterday in a car accident. They have (had?) six children, the oldest around my age. I've known them all my life, and the family lives here in Dallas now. I called their house and no one answered. My question has two parts: 1. How do I find out when/where the funeral is? We are not in constant touch, but are of the old friend variety. I don't want to leave a message, but I don't know how else to get information. 2. How do I get my dad to come to Texas for the funeral? He avoids anything that's inconvenient or painful, but they came up for my mother's funeral and I think he should come to Texas for hers. He said he'd go if it was in Idaho where she's from, but it didn't sound like he would if it was in Dallas. Of course, if it is in Idaho, then I don't need to worry about the second question.
[ April 27, 2005, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
katharina: How do I find out when/where the funeral is?
Try looking here. Let me know if this site works for you. Alternatively, you might call the newspaper in the hometown. They often have obituary information including funeral times, etc. (This is all assuming you've though of the obvious, like calling mutual friends or their church or place of employment, etc.)
How do I get my dad to come to Texas for the funeral?
The only thing you really can do is to appeal to him using the same logic you used above. If he feels strongly enough against it that "returning the respect" isn't a good enough motivator it is unlikely that you will be able to persuade him without some sort of bribery or coersion, which I don't recommend. And certainly don't make him feel guilty. I didn't attend my grandmother's funeral largely because when I expressed reticence (mainly because it would be full of relatives I had not seen since before I came out) my sister laid a huge guilt trip on me, reinforcing all my negative feelings about the event in the first place. And I didn't speak to her for over a year after that.
However, "Come on, dad. We'll pay our respects then I'll take you out for a nice dinner and we can catch up on things" is a pleasant form of bribery that would work for me. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Thank you for the first information. It's not in there, but she only died yesterday. Maybe it is not scheduled yet. I have to say I disagree with what you did in the second, but thank you for answering.
[ April 27, 2005, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I supplied that information only as insight into the reaction of some people to guilt trips. I don't know your father, but I do know that they have the opposite effect on me than is usually intended.
As for my own situation, there were many factors that led to my decision. I gave a shorthand version because the rest is irrelevant to your question and I didn't want to go off on too much of a tangent. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Ah. My dad reacts slightly better to guilt trips, I think. Rather, if it's up to him he won't do it, but if he realizes it's important to someone that he's tied to, then he's much more inclined. Maybe he doesn't understand that it's important that he comes. More specifically, if it's in Texas I am definitely going, and I'd like my dad to be there without me having to beg him.
I'll go to Idaho if my friend - the daughter that is my age - wants me to. I need to talk to her. *worried and restless* Holy freak, I wish there was something I could do. I hate that there's nothing I can do.
[ April 27, 2005, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I agree that you should let him know it is important to you. I certainly wasn't implying that would be a guilt trip.
I'm sorry you are going through this at all. Grief is such a personal thing that there really is nothing one can do but be there for the people who are suffering through it. But I know from Hatrack that you can be very kind to those in need. I'm sure your presence will be a comfort to them. (((kat)))
Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
Where's that thread that explains the proper way to use "ie"?
Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
You sure are a slow answerer Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
"ie" was explained to me by someone here (Icarus?) so I feel like I should carry on the tradition.
i.e. stands for "id est", which roughly translated means "that is to say". It should not be used for "for example", which is what e.g. means, roughly.
Sorry to steal your thunder KarlEd.
Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
Thanks, Teshi.
Another question. Is there a thread to post random pictures. Boy, do I have random pictures. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Tater: Where's that thread that explains the proper way to use "ie"?
Well, I don't check here much on the weekends and I was out on Friday.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Tater: Is there a thread to post random pictures.
I'm sure there is, but a new one wouldn't hurt. You might also try this page.
Posted by IrishAphrodite19 (Member # 1880) on :
What is the best dye to use if you are dying someone's hair blue? (Please let it be semi-cheap...)
What is the best method when puting red streaks in one's hair?
~Irish
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
What is the best dye to use if you are dying someone's hair blue? (Please let it be semi-cheap...)
What is the best method when puting red streaks in one's hair?
Well you might find something useful at this site. (It might take a little while to load. It did for me.) Other than that, I admit myself unqualified to provide a better answer. Just as with medical questions, I must refer you to a qualified professional. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
What advice do you have / resources do you reccomend for persons renovating/decorating hypothetical Victorian style houses? Particularly in regard to bathrooms?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Manic Panic is the way to go for fun hair colors. If you're putting in red streaks and your hair is dark, if you really want them to stand out you'll need to bleach the streaks first, then dye them red. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
dkw: What advice do you have / resources do you reccomend for persons renovating/decorating hypothetical Victorian style houses? Particularly in regard to bathrooms?
There are many online resources that specialize in Victorian era decor. There are also a couple of magazines (I'll see if I can find some links) that are specifically for and about renovators of Victorian homes. The good thing about Victorian style homes, though, is that they lend themselves to many different tastes in terms of decorating. My advice is to visit a good newsstand and buy a couple of nice home decor magazines. Try and get at least one that is specific to Victorian homes, but don't limit yourself to them alone. One of the hallmarks of Victorian era homes was that for the first time fine fabrics and richly designed furniture was available to the middle classes. The result was that many "went overboard" filling their homes with fabric, paint, furniture, and knick-knacks. Some people today really like that lush, almost opulent decor. I, personally, prefer a less cluttered look, but I like to find unique pieces that fit my budget. I'd rather splurge on one really nice item than buy a dozen mediocre things for the same price.
At any rate, when decorating a Victorian era home, you can probably find someplace anywhere along the spectrum that you feel comfortable, from spartan to opulent. Decide where your comfort zone is, and keep that in mind as you look in the magazines. I'm finding that my house is responding well to very different decorating styles in different rooms. (Anyone who's seen my house will laugh at that statement as right now it's still a clutter of boxes and furniture and no single room is completely finished), but my kitchen is fairly modern and my new bathroom is mostly natural tile slate. Neither of those rooms is specifically Victorian, but I don't think the house suffers because of that in the least.
In a nutshell, what counts as "Victorian" is pretty wide. I'd have to know specifically where along the spectrum you fall to give you specific resources. Feel free to send me an email.
And good luck if you're looking at renovating something. I'm finding it really does cost more than you plan on, but it's a lot of fun.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
Heya Karl, sorry for the ginormous time lag between repsonses. Haven’t had time to do much more than lurk on the ‘rack.
quote:Before I were to try to convince someone of my view, however, I'd ask myself if I was trying to teach them to see beauty, or trying to steal the beauty they see and replace it with lasciviousness.
Very good point. *takes*
quote:You presume too much in your question. I'd argue that being painted or drawn does not preclude a nude figure from being pornographic, nor does appearing in a nudie magazine automatically make a photo of a nude figure void of artistic merit.
*nod* That was actually my point: where is the dividing line? (I just skimmed the first bit of that Porn Thing mayfly thread, which I apparently missed when it was first posted, and I’m guessing this bit is discussed in there. Hopefully I’ll have time to read that tonight. )
quote:I do not think it is arrogant and unfair to believe as you do. What I believe is arrogant and unfair is to assign ulterior motives to others without just cause. It is fine for you to think a photo is pornographic. It is arrogant and unfair to assume that despite the fact I say I like the photo for its aesthetic value and do not find it pornographic that secretly I'm really lusting over it and just don't want to admit it. See the difference?
Totally see the difference. Again, this was in relation to that art class, where there were people who had given me AMPLE reason to believe that they liked such controversial art for nothing more than the “hehe, boobs!” aspect of it *grin*. However, there were also people in the same class who, I believe, liked the pictures for something MORE than that as well, whose opinions I trusted. What were they seeing in the picture that was “aesthetically pleasing” but separate from the more titillating aspects of it?
I guess what I’m trying to get at is what makes the shape or placement of objects pleasing to look at? It seems so nebulous to me.
quote:Many people find beauty in a form, shape, arc, curve, proportion, or even ideal that is apart from specific subject matter. Others appreciate subject matter over craft in their art. That is why two people will look at the same still life and one will find it artistic and the other will find it boring. That also explains to some degree why some people will collect cat art regardless of its quality. They want it as long as it has a cat on it or in it.
This is completely the crux of it. How are the particular forms, shapes, arcs, curves, proportions or ideals of nude art in particular pleasing to look at, if they are not connected in any way to (for lack of a more descriptive term) “lust”? I mean, I’m a very straight male, and yet I find something pleasing about drawing a man’s anatomy in correct proportions. I know many straight female artists who feel the same way about drawing women. We’re not aroused by the pictures we make, but neither can we express what exactly it is that is pleasing about them. There’s basically just a sense that it “feels right”, that the work is “good”. (Of course, one explanation might be that none of us are quite as “straight” as we might lead ourselves to believe *grin*)
quote:If it were, I probably would have found it both aesthetically pleasing and arousing.
Where is the dividing line? Is there even a line at all, or is it a hopeless murky jumble? (Or even not a murky jumble at all, but rather a smooth blending of the two reactions, where they are impossible to quite separate, which makes anything like a concrete definition pretty much useless? *grin*)
About the only thing that I can think of about any art that is pleasing and yet does not depend on some form of bodily desire is the sense that the artist “got it right”. That is, they showed the “truth” about a human body, which is something we all come into contact with every day. Even THAT definition is too unclear for my taste, though. *hangs head*
That statue sounds cool, though.
quote:Can you recognize an aesthetic difference between a nude photo of a male athlete and a nude photo of, say, Danny DeVito?
Exactly! I can indeed recognize a difference between photos of nude athletes and nude Danny Devitos (which is one sentence I never particularly thought I’d ever write *laugh*). The question is WHY can I recognize the difference? I think of Devito as a pretty unattractive dude, which is what I assume to be some sort of evolutionary response that judges him to be someone unsuitable for my sister to mate with. I wouldn’t want his genes in my family if we were basing it entirely on external “beauty” (if you’re reading this, Danny, I’m sorry!). Of course, this opens up a whole different can o’ worms about the related issues of why bisexuals and homosexuals find each other attractive and what evolutionary advantage such attraction might be.
Is there some meta-rule that transcends our bodily hungers that makes art pleasing, some quality that can pretty much only be summed up as “it just feels right”? I don’t LIKE not knowing! *grin*
quote:I hope that I have provided some answers to your general questions. I believe it is possible for some people (myself for instance) to recognize aesthetic appeal apart from lustful appeal in renditions of nudes
You’ve certainly helped me to clarify my question (if indeed it is any clearer at all, my apologies for my ineptitude at this whole “writing stuff down” thing). Understanding more about my questions seems to be the right track to getting some friggin’ ANSWERS. *grin*
quote:However, as to the personal questions about the ability within yourself, only you can answer those. If you believe you can, even if you don't specifically know why you can, does it matter if you can justify that to an outside observer?
I suppose you’re right. Still, in some ways I treat my*self* as an outside observer (which might not be particularly healthy, come to think of it *laugh*) and I like to know WHY I think the way I think. It’s really pretty hopelessly narcissistic of me.
Anyway, thanks for your responses, dude. Very edifying.
Also, I don’t want this thread to die, so I’ma do my part. *grin*
…
Annie, I’ll be reading those links. Sounds like exactly what I’m looking for, thanks for the tip. : )
Posted by Beanny (Member # 7109) on :
Why is Hatrack so great?
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Zotto!: Where is the dividing line? Is there even a line at all, or is it a hopeless murky jumble? (Or even not a murky jumble at all, but rather a smooth blending of the two reactions, where they are impossible to quite separate, which makes anything like a concrete definition pretty much useless?
I think its that last part. Some things are so completely subjective that they defy concrete rules or blanket definitions. If anyone had the ability to answer such questions definitively, much of the controversy would be gone from the world.
Sorry for taking so long to respond. I thought this thread was dead and had stopped checking it.
Beanny: Why is Hatrack so great?
Because it is a near-perfect example of successful community building. OSC has created a place that attracts people through what is ultimately a very tennuous common connection, but it holds us here long enough to discover more and more common threads that bind us together.
Really, what percentage of Hatrack time does the average Jatraquero spend talking about OSC and his work in this forum? What percentage of posters here also post on "the other side"? While OSC and his work are the initial attraction for most of us, I'd venture to say it's the connections we make with each other that keep us here. That seems pretty great to me.
Posted by Beanny (Member # 7109) on :
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Something you should see a health care professional about. ![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
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. But I do have gay friends who prefer to keep the level of conversation out of the gutter most of the time.
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