quote:

---

A joint-Canada-U.S. committee will meet at the coast guard base in Dartmouth, N.S., to discuss the rocket debris that is expected to land near the Hibernia offshore oil site.

---

quote:

---

The U.S. says it has no plans to pick a new flight path that would be farther away from the Hibernia, Terra Nova and White Rose oil fields.

---

Is it really that hard to look at satellite imagery along your flight path to make sure there's nothing there? I mean, do they even check for potential boats in the area of the projected flight path? They say that the chance of hitting any of our rigs is about one in a trillion, but I'm not entirely sure I buy that when the debris is projected to land two kilometres from the Hibernia site, and when they were charting the flight path they weren't even aware that there was anything there at all.

(The article doesn't say that, but I'm talking with one of my best friends about it right now; his father is vice president of corporate planning at Petro-Canada, which owns most of the operations in question. Yes, it's secondhand information, but it's from a reliable source.)

That said, I don't imagine anything will actually hit any of the rigs, but it's pretty rude to just chart a course over our airspace without bothering to check that you won't be potentially risking Canadian lives (even when the risk is minimal) and then not tell us about it until less than a week before the launch.

Linkage.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
You're joking, right?

Since when did Imperial America ever request permission for anything?

-Trevor
 

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Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
 
Oooh, can you feel the angst?
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Just keep in mind that we are your largest supplier of crude oil and petroleum products. You ought to treat us even more nicely than you treat Saudi Arabia.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
2 billion dollars of business a day.

*buries head in hands, sighs
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Hey, if they say it won't hit, it won't hit.

Oh, wait, these aren't the same guys who forgot to convert feet to meters, is it? You might be in trouble, then.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
If they'd just learn to do their calculations in SI like everyone else in the entire world, that might not have been a problem...
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
And you're a lot closer than Saudia Arabia.

Wow, that sounds a lot more menacing with a Bush twang.

Disclaimer: No, I'm not advocating the invasion of Canada nor do I think the President of the US is, either.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
He won't need to advocate it when the American populace realizes just how much oil and water we've got. It'll be a citizens' invasion.
 

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Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
 
I think it's time to bring democracy to Canada.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
Manifest Destiny, right?
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Why do we have to be such <explative-withheld> jerks?
 

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Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
Those jokes are always funny unless you're Canadian.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
I suppose it depends on whether or not we're being obnoxious intentionally or we're just that self-absorbed.

The US Military was planning on holding night maneuvers over a major urban center and either wasn't planning on telling civil authorities or didn't tell them until after the fact. Mind you, this was five or six years ago, if memory serves.

Can we say "disaster waiting to happen?" I knew we could.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 

quote:

---

Why do we have to be such <explative-withheld> jerks?

---

quote:

---

Those jokes are always funny unless you're Canadian.

---

Quoted for extreme truth.
 

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Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
 
Boohoohoo, the mean americans are making fun of me!


 

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Posted by ProverbialSunrise (Member # 7771) on :
 
Jokes NOT FUNNY!!!!
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 

quote:

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Boohoohoo, the mean americans are making fun of me

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quote:

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I know you do this on purpose, but I've never found it even the slightest bit amusing. Just FYI.

---

FYI, OMG. WTF? STFU!
 

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Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
 
While I know folks were only joking, it's amazing how jokes like that get my back up. Maybe because it's "just a joke."

[ April 09, 2005, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Eaquae Legit ]
 

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Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I will bet that Canada and the United States will some day go to war. It sounds silly, other than feelings and politics between the two have slowly grown seriously cold.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Oh please.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 

 

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Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
 
Don't let them ridicule you Occasional, when the bombs are flying one way and the waffles are flying the other, you'll be able to smile smugly and say "I told you so."
 

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Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
 
So good to see Hatrackers doing their bit to make the US even more unpopular.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
I think it's safe to say that boat has sailed.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
"So good to see Hatrackers doing their bit to make the US even more unpopular."

Blame Ireland, and their shamrock yielding leprechaun-like people. :-p @ Jebus

[ April 09, 2005, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: T_Smith ]
 

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Posted by Desdemona (Member # 7100) on :
 
Canada's never 'lost' a war that it's been actively involved in, so watch out!
 

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Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
 
You went too far there, T. You just went too far.

It was all fun and games when we were making fun of Canada, but this is serious.
 

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Posted by sexy_aaron (Member # 7312) on :
 
If it makes you feel any better, America is the laughing stock of Canada and the World.

THey're hicks, and you live in a country where 3 out of 5 people in the most rural South of Alberta aproves of gay marriage. You have a country to be proud of.
 

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Posted by Lara (Member # 132) on :
 
I was reading a forum somewhere about the US Army slogan "An Army of One." Someone said they hated the idea of being an Army of One because isn't the military about teamwork, blah blah, and this other guy posted and said, "You should come to Canada, then you could be in an army of about 8."

T, did you mean shamrock- weilding ?
 

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Posted by Lord Solar Macharius (Member # 7775) on :
 
Did anyone understand what the big sexy said? I think he was complementing Canada in that our most conservative province still supports basic human rights, but...

In other news, I enjoy all jokes, and as a Canadian was not offended in any conceivable manner by those presented here.

And on the notion of a CanUSA tilt, the last time that happened we repelled you, and we can do it again. Hell, we even have the same equipment.

[ April 09, 2005, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Lord Solar Macharius ]
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
LSM! Welcome to Hatrack!
 

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Posted by Lord Solar Macharius (Member # 7775) on :
 
Throne, you guys (and I mean that in a unisexual way) are fast with your greetings. Thanks for the welcoming. I've been lurking for the better part of two years, so I know the faces pretty well (though I should admit my dirty little secret: for the first couple of months I thought it was Hat-trick River. Sue me, it was hockey season).

Note: I edit my posts a lot within the first few minutes of them being up. I've been accused of having OCD.

[ April 09, 2005, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Lord Solar Macharius ]
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
I'm sitting and refreshing, which is why I was so fast.

If you've been lurking for two years you should know it's Hatcrack River.
 

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Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
No, I completely and totally meant yielding.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Yeah, we're freaking jerks all right. We sure do suck. It's a good thing we buy massive amounts of everything from everyone, and also that we in large part paid for the national defense of many nations (in the past, and for some nations to this day), or else we'd be totally worthless!

Yeah, those, "America sucks," remarks are always so penetrating, so insightful. Sorry for, you know, making jokes on occassion about Canadians. Totally out of line, since that kind of thing isn't ever sent south

Edit: [quoteAnd on the notion of a CanUSA tilt, the last time that happened we repelled you, and we can do it again. Hell, we even have the same equipment.[/quote]

These kinds of statements, when my by Americans about America, are generally regarded as imperialist, jingoist, arrogant, or condescending. But I suspect that when a Canadian makes such a statement about Canada-even though it is absurd-I expect it will be taken in stride and regarded as normal, healthy patriotism.

[ April 10, 2005, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Rakeesh ]
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
It is incumbent upon those with the most power -- you -- to be even nicer than the rest of us, who all have to bargain with you from a position of relative weakness.

Edit:

quote:

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These kinds of statements, when my by Americans about America, are generally regarded as imperialist, jingoist, arrogant, or condescending. But I suspect that when a Canadian makes such a statement about Canada-even though it is absurd-I expect it will be taken in stride and regarded as normal, healthy patriotism.

---

And, unsurprisingly, this is equally true of Americans making statements that, coming from north of the border, are considered anti-American.

[ April 10, 2005, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Incidentally, it's nice to see you post, man.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
No kiddin'! It's been a couple months, Rakeesh!
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Well, on a personal level, I agree with you, Twink. I think people should operate that way. But gratitude, charity, and normal courtesy don't really apply to international relations, unfortunately (and no, I'm not just meaning gratitude towards America, I mean between ALL nations, really).

But since America rarely gets the gratitude it deserves (I believe), and instead gets largely the scorn it deserves (I believe), why exactly should America deal more kindly with those in weaker positions?

---

Thanks, Rivka and Twinky:) Figures that while I'm gone, the OSC starts posting with apparent regularity! Geeze. I should post on more forums regularly, and then leave, to summon up famous authors! heh
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 

quote:

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But since America rarely gets the gratitude it deserves (I believe), and instead gets largely the scorn it deserves (I believe), why exactly should America deal more kindly with those in weaker positions?

---

quote:

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And on the notion of a CanUSA tilt, the last time that happened we repelled you, and we can do it again. Hell, we even have the same equipment.

---

Since this comment references the war of 1812, I'd say it actually falls under the category of "tired, unfunny jokes about the Canadian military" that both Americans and Canadians make altogether too much for my taste. Canadians more so, actually, since most Americans don't know very much about Canada anyway. We did burn down the White House that time, but somehow I don't think we could manage that feat again.

My real problem with the jokes in this thread, though, is that they deflected the whole focus of the thread away from the issue I tried to raise in the original post, which is that this is yet another example of America taking Canada for granted, as has been happening with increasing frequency of late.
 

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Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
Ah, I apologize, I read your initial comment as a commentary on America's stance, not on the jokes. Yes, I think most nations must endure being the butt of jokes, and that most of them are harmless.
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
I think my thing is that as the biggest, richest, loudest kid on the block, we have to accept that jokes are going to be made about us. To make jokes back, particularly about invading other countries when we're already infringing on their territorial rights, just lacks class. Gallows humor or not, it's crass. And if a Canadian wanted to make the same joke, I'd have no problem with it. They get to decide if it's funny or not. Just like I can call myself a b*&$% if I want to, and my very close female friends can as well, but if a stranger, someone I know casually, or almost any male friend called me that it would get them raised eyebrows and an icy stare until they apologized, at best.
 

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Posted by sexy_aaron (Member # 7312) on :
 
America deserves anything anyone says about it. If they weren't hicks, then the rest of the world wouldn't hate them.
 

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Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
Bringing them up to hurt, or to derail a serious thread about the US impinging upon Canada is perhaps a bit diminuitive.
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Exactly, fugu. "Hey, you just found out we're dropping stuff in your waters and possibly on your citizens, with less than a weeks notice, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it, and we're going to make fun of you, too!" Nothing like rubbing a little salt in the wounds.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Fugu, I wasn't talking about the jokes, either. I was saying that even though the discourse between nations is usually polite to a fault, that does not mean that courtesy and friendship are the way things are really done. It's all quid pro quo is what I mean, which is not necessarily friendship.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 

quote:

---

we have to accept that jokes are going to be made about us. To make jokes back, particularly about invading other countries when we're already infringing on their territorial rights, just lacks class.

---

The jokes back lack exactly as much class as the initial jokes.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
I don't think politeness equals friendship, but long term relations cannot proceed without politeness, and short term relationships are jeopardized without it. Merely because the actual tradeoffs involve quid pro quos does not mean the framework for negotiating those does not rest on politeness.
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Yep. And I like to think that if I were a citizen of another nation, I wouldn't be making the intial jokes. But I'm not, and can only control my actions in the situation I'm in. And I'm a do unto others as you'd have done unto you type of girl.

Edit: To Dagonee.

[ April 10, 2005, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Which is ironic, considering the first jokes made in this thread were about 'imperial America'. America and the rest of the world are fortunate we are not in fact imperialistic, since things would be a good deal less pleasant than they are now if we were.

And sorry for continuing the derailment. I don't know what plans, if any, are made for charting air space and whatnot, actually. I suppose it's possible that the issue doesn't come up very often, since it's more likely debris lands in no one's territorial waters or airspace. I do agree, though, that it is very bad form on our part not to have taken steps of courtesy first.

And Aaron...how exactly did America, the land of hateful hicks, become the most diverse, powerful, and wealthiest nation on Earth? Got lucky at the track?
 

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Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
 

quote:

---

or almost any male friend called me that it would get them raised eyebrows and an icy stare until they apologized, at best.

---

quote:

---

The jokes back lack exactly as much class as the initial jokes.

---

quote:

---

This business of flight paths is another example of how America takes Canada for granted, and frankly I don't care to listen to whining about how you guys are the butt of whoever else's jokes while you are screwing us in real, fiscally substantive ways in addition to being inconsiderate in how you conduct your affairs with respect to us.

---

That you categorize pointing out that bad jokes about other countries are equally classless as "whining" shows just how unreasonable you're being.

Further, your categorization of the trade disputes is incredibly one-sided. There is a review process in place, and it will determine the outcome. Until then, both sides have colorable legal arguments backing them up. Your failure to even mention the other side makes it clear you're more interested in nursing hurt feelings than reaching any kind of understanding.

Your equation of the two issues of jokes and trade disputes is, frankly, demeaning you. The jokes made by Canadians don't possess any more class because the U.S. has invoked substantive penalties subject to due process with respect to softwood lumber imports. Just as jokes made by Americans don't possess any more class because of jokes made by Canadians.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
I'm dropping this topic, because as twinky just noted it's not the main point of the thread, just a little pet peeve of mine. (The joke thing.) So I'm done derailing, and hope some constructive conversation can happen on the original thread topic.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
ElJay, I was disagreeing with a general proposition you put forth: "I think my thing is that as the biggest, richest, loudest kid on the block, we have to accept that jokes are going to be made about us. To make jokes back, particularly about invading other countries when we're already infringing on their territorial rights, just lacks class." What was done in this thread is irrelevant to that proposition.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
*I* didn't bring up jokes. They are not related to the point I'm trying to make. But people seem hell-bent on talking about them, so I've tried to address them, too.

quote:

---

Further, your categorization of the trade disputes is incredibly one-sided. There is a review process in place, and it will determine the outcome. Until then, both sides have colorable legal arguments backing them up. Your failure to even mention the other side makes it clear you're more interested in nursing hurt feelings than reaching any kind of understanding.

---

quote:

---

Your equation of the two issues of jokes and trade disputes is, frankly, demeaning you.

---

quote:

---

frankly I don't care to listen to whining about how you guys are the butt of whoever else's jokes while you are screwing us in real, fiscally substantive ways

---

quote:

---

The review process is over in some cases, with ostensibly final rulings in, and no changes have been made. How is that "one-sided?" I think you're projecting what you want me to think onto my posts.

---

quote:

---

frankly I don't care to listen to whining about how you guys are the butt of whoever else's jokes while you are screwing us in real, fiscally substantive ways

---

quote:

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The review process is over for some and not for others. There are several pending, without final decisions. There are several cases that have gone against Canada. There are other countries opposing Canada's trade practices with them. To categorize it as the U.S. "screwing" Canada with no mention that Canada has not been innocent on trade over the last 3 years is misleading.

---

quote:

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I don't think it is, because of the relative magnitude (in dollars, relative to, say, GDP).

---

quote:

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If someone is going to mug me, using the current example, I expect him (using a generic, sexist assumption) to be armed. This was never intended as an exercise in fair play. Granted, I'd rather not be mugged but if I was the one doing the mugging, I'd tilt the odds in my favor as much as I could.

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quote:

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Mine wasn't an analogy, because it would be awful at that (as would yours), it was a situation highlighting a problem with an implication in TMedina's comment.

---

But your highlighting of that problem ignored the fact that there were two muggers involved, not one. It's not simply taking advantage of, it's taking more advantage than the other guilty party that's happening.
 

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Posted by Lord Solar Macharius (Member # 7775) on :
 


Still, that was the whole point of the analogy, non?

Edit: At T.
Second Edit: That emocon really doen't portray my own feeling of stupidity that well. How about...

[ April 10, 2005, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Lord Solar Macharius ]
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 

quote:

---

What a lovely day in the neighborhood.

---

quote:

---

And Aaron...how exactly did America, the land of hateful hicks, become the most diverse, powerful, and wealthiest nation on Earth? Got lucky at the track?

---

quote:

---

There are very serious and potentially legitimate complaints (I don't know enough trade law to judge the merits) about Canadian subsidies. These are not retaliatory subsidies, they are normal policy. The U.S. has the right to avail themselves of the agreed-upon process to account for them.

---

quote:

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I don't know which WTO rulings are being ignored right now besides the one distributing reatliatory tarrifs to businesses. Note that the tarrifs themselves were upheld, just not the distribution.

---

quote:

---

I'm not saying there aren't others, and if the U.S. is ignoring them then it's wrong. But the U.S. wins an awful lot in the WTO, which is pretty much proof they aren't the only guilty ones.

And Canada is one of the guilty ones, at least sometimes.

---

quote:

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So...you're mad because someone is pressing their advantage in a situation?

---

quote:

---

We aren't the most diverse nation? Name one that is more so, that also has as much acceptance and embraces so many cultures, please-one that isn't either heavily American-influenced OR heavily protected by America.

Slowed to a crawl? Our GDP still grows-at a higher rate than most nations on Earth. China's economy grows in large part due to ruthless control over its economy, and blatant violation of little things like trademarks and copyrights.

---

Rakeesh: Brazil.

As for China's economy, you don't think it has anything to do with their willingness to disregard good ecological policy, their massive manufacturing base, and the relative worth of their currency? (i really don't think the copyright & trademark issue is as big a deal as you or the RIAA are making it)

-------------------------------------------------

I have several points to make on the subject of US canadian relations particularly relating to the points brought up here.

From my particular vantage point (American dating a canadian), i've noted with growing dismay the sorts of treatment that Canada and Canadians receive when the bring up policy issues which effect and upset them. Almost without exception, the reaction returned from members of this board, the general public, the media and the bush admistration, begins by diminishing them as you would a child (That silly Canada, always getting their knickers in a twist about something, how endearing), and then immediately segues into americans lamenting how misunderstood they are by the world at large, and how we've done so much for them (as if that somehow addressed the substance of the original complaint). Finally, nothing is ultimately done, and the conversation peters out without so much as a second thought.

As an aside i'll just mention that like twink and many others have pointed out, on the face of it (and US/Canadian trade statistics), this is utterly absurd. My uncle put it to me this way in regards to Canada's seeming inability to get any attention in DC, "i don't know why canada doesn't just shut down the US/Canadian oil pipeline for 'maintanance'."

The way i see it, the problem that Canada has in communicating with the US precisely and identicallyreflects the sort of problem that takes place in interal US politics. It's not that Canada isn't listened to, it's that Americans generally are extremely adept at selective attention (intentionally or otherwise). And selective attention is present at every level of American Politics. Congressmen don't listen to people outside of their constitutency, and often, they won't go so far as to even to listen to the individuals in their constitutency (it's amazing how unwilling certain republican representatives in my state are to talk to their democratic constituents).

(i'll keep this short)

The problem Canada has is that all these factors work against it. Clearly they have no constituency in the US, moreover the treatment of Canadians as a group doesn't resonate in the US, unlike the treatment of Mexican Americans (since most americans think of them as USA light). On top of that, while Canada is extremely effective both in the realms of trade and international relationships, their distance (geographic and otherwise) from other players that the US is concerned about keeping pressure on, leads the US to treat Canadians as an afterthought if at all.

The comparison i would make is the difference between US/British and US/Canadian ties.

If the US political system were to change maybe other things would change too. I certainly hope both those things would happen.

[ April 10, 2005, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Pod ]
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Dude! Pod! You... you posted!



I'm really looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks, man.

On topic:

quote:

---

"i don't know why canada doesn't just shut down the US/Canadian oil pipeline for 'maintanance'."

---

• The ridiculously inconsistant treatment of potentially BSE-infected cows has received in regards US and Canadian beef markets.
• The extraordinary rendition (*coughKidnappingcough*) of canadian citizens to locals where they were imprisoned and tortured.
• Overfishing of Canadian territorial waters by American fishermen
• The US bullying Canada over NORAD decisions

quote:

---

Overfishing of Canadian territorial waters by American fishermen

---

The Portuguese do this, too. We should start mounting big guns on our Coast Guard ships or something. Of course, we also did a pretty good job of overfishing our own waters ourselves.

So... um, not that it's at all related, but are you and Jaiden cool with staying at the Crowne for the con?

Edit:

Re: Pipeline

Well, the other thing is that if more Americans (particularly but not exclusively politicians) realized just how crucial we are to America's supply of crude and petroleum products... honestly, I'm not sure what would happen. But I think there would be some pretty serious reactions, and it might not end well for us. It's a card I should hope we save until we're in genuinely dire straits.

[ April 10, 2005, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Well, few things are more likely to get me to post, like people complaining about America, and few things are more likely to get Ted to post than that, plus a mention of China to boot

And Brazil? I don't know much about Brazil, but I take your word for it. So America is not the most diverse nation on Earth, but I'd certainly put it up on the top ten, wouldn't you?
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Word, Pod.

And FWIW, Canada is exceedingly diverse, and growing even moreso by leaps and bounds. Pretty international feel to the big cities. (Not that this makes a point in itself, just a fascinating article about the topic.)

[From the March 23, 2005, edition of the Tornonto Globe and Mail:]

quote:

---

The number of visible minorities in Canada is expected to double by 2017 and form more than half the population in greater Toronto and Vancouver, according to new projections that highlight the country's growing diversity.

If current trends hold, one in every five faces will be non-white in 12 years when Canadians mark the 150th anniversary of Confederation, Statistics Canada said yesterday.

"Canada's ethno-cultural makeup, especially in large urban areas, is changing rapidly, bringing political decision makers . . . a number of challenges and opportunities, particularly in the areas of urban development, labour market integration, health and social services, and public institutions," the report says.

The findings come as a "bit of a reality check," said Ratna Omidvar, executive director of the Maytree Foundation, a Toronto think tank.

"It means that there are issues we need to resolve faster. We need to be a little bit more mindful about issues of social cohesion and social inclusion and ramp up the efforts that are currently under way to ensure that, in fact, the new Canada works."

Minister of State for Multiculturalism Raymond Chan said the government is working to improve employment opportunities for visible-minority immigrants, who face more challenges than Caucasian newcomers.

"It's a good challenge," he said. "The Canadian population has always been evolving. We're a land of immigrants, so diversity is not something new to us and, so far, we've been able to take advantage of our diversity and become a very strong nation."

Jeffrey Reitz, head of the ethnic studies program at the University of Toronto, noted that immigration policy has "produced constant demographic change over time," as waves of people have arrived in Canada from every corner of the world.

---

quote:

---

Well, few things are more likely to get me to post, like people complaining about America, and few things are more likely to get Ted to post than that, plus a mention of China to boot

---

*scribbles notes for when Rakeesh stops posting again*

quote:

---

And FWIW, Canada is exceedingly diverse, and growing even moreso by leaps and bounds. Pretty international feel to the big cities. (Not that this makes a point in itself, just a fascinating article about the topic.)

---

Here's an interesting tangent: the Conservative party is courting the "ethnic" vote over the gay marriage issue, while simultaneously advocating reducing immigration. It's a double-whammy of irony!

(I laugh, but I'm actually scared, because since Parliament is full of old white men there's a chance the gay marriage bill won't pass the mostly-free vote.)

Edit: Anyone know how we can bring Pierre Trudeau back from the dead?

[ April 11, 2005, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: twinky ]
 

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Posted by Pod (Member # 941) on :
 
The other thing i love about canada is that they collect statistics on everything. None of this "Oh, i'm John McCain and i want to cut spending for scientific enterprise" stuff. If it's out there, and it can be counted, Canada's doing it. (Disclaimer: this statement is largely hyperbole, except the part about Canada. they do collect alot of statistics).

Jeff:

Brazilians pride themselves on how diverse they are. Granted my first hand experience visiting Sao Paulo was brief, but it totally bore out what i'd been told. Granted there are other rampant problems in Brazil, but diversity is certainly not one of them.
 

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Posted by Pod (Member # 941) on :
 
Oh, and Twink, US conservatives do the exact same thing.
 

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Posted by Pod (Member # 941) on :
 

quote:

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Finally, nothing is ultimately done, and the conversation peters out without so much as a second thought.

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Oh-ho, the irony...
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
StatsCan is indeed awesome.
 

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Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
 

quote:

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Brazilians pride themselves on how diverse they are. Granted my first hand experience visiting Sao Paulo was brief, but it totally bore out what i'd been told. Granted there are other rampant problems in Brazil, but diversity is certainly not one of them.

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quote:

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Pretty international feel to the big cities.

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