Thank you for paying so much attention to this little country in the middle of Europe. You are right, it is really absurd with the name. The most absurd is probably the inscription on sport dresses saying: Czech. Wouldn´t it be fun to have sportsmen with dresses saying "American" or "Polish"? Well, no one is happy about it here, but neither people nor experts are able to find an acceptable way out of it. Czechland is surely one of the best alternatives for English.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
This is a matter of great importance to me and I agree completely!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Surveyor 2! Welcome back! I've always had fond memories of you. That's kind of strange, given the small number of posts you made way back when, but true nonetheless.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
I love that article. Hilarious.
Heh heh. "Czechmark".
I also agree with it whole-heartedly, and I formally throw my full support for making the official English-language name for the country "Czechland". Regardless of what the Czechs decide to do in their own language, "Czechland" is the single most natural and sensible option for English.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
I am not alone!
And Czechland is HARDLY an "obscure" country in central Europe - at least not to anyone educated in European history. It is the land of Jan Huss, one of the greatest martyrs in the history of freedom, religion, and humanism. It is the land that gave us the "Bohemians" <grin>. It is the nation that the vain "peace-loving" British and French sacrificed to Hitler in order to trade YOUR lives and freedom for THEIR avoidance of war. It was an island of democracy in a sea of dictatorships after WWI. It was the harbinger of hope in the Prague Spring. It is the land of Vaclev Havel. Plus, I hear it's really cheap to make movies there <grin>. I have friends who travel there regularly and love your country like a second home; I have one who has moved there so it IS his home now.
Who could fail to be aware of Czechland!
[ April 25, 2005, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: Orson Scott Card ]
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
By the way, I DID spare you one analogous naming. I thought of saying:
"Or we could call it 'Czechy,' the way we named 'Germany.' But that might lead weakminded Americans to think of 'Czechy Cheese' and that would be wrong."
Aren't you glad I never actually wrote that down or posted it anywhere?
Oh, wait ...
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
One thing is shure, it can't be called Chzechastan. There are too many -stans already. If their are anymore the all countries must rename themselves using the formula ethnic groups+stan=name
For example, the U.S. would be Mostlyeuropeanwithafricanasianandhispanicminoriti-esastan and that just doesn't role of the tounge.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
*shrug*
It is called Czechy in Polish.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 619) on :
Playing with the word "Czech" is probably one of the best and most lighthearted things I've read by OSC in a long time. Thanks! Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
I still don't see what's wrong with "Czechia."
By the way, I had a hedgehog stolen from my purse in Prague.
[ April 24, 2005, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote: It is the nation that the vain "peace-loving" British and French sacrificed to Hitler in order to trade YOUR live and freedom for THEIR avoidance of war.
::snort:: I love this.
And then remember when America just couldn't stand what France and Britain had done and rushed in to save Czechoslovakia?
Posted by Surveyor 2 (Member # 347) on :
To Noemon: It is hard to believe that someone can remember me here or even miss me. I am mostly just an observer, but I am here for years.
To jebus202: That's true, but America had no treaty with Czechoslovakia at the time. UK and France had, but still they commited their treason in Munich
As for the topic, "Czechy" is similar to the name we have and use (for want of something better), but it has a catch in it. In fact, it is the same as Bohemia, only the western part, roughly rhomboidal, with Prague in its center. The eastern part, quite proud, is called Moravia, and it doesn't want to be included in "Czechy". Actually there was one state, the first one, deep in past, covering the whole territory, which was called Great Moravia. It even was one of the proposals twelve years back. And it is the name I would have prefered. Now try to guess which part I live in...
Last but not least, to OSC: Nice to hear more kind words. But I think you missed one important person which is very characteristic for the Czechs and which is one of our greatest assets to the world: the good soldier Svejk. OSC, you are welcomed here anytime!
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
I'm half Czech. It's not a little nation in the middle of nowhere, it's a vrey firmly based people in Europe and anyone going to Prague would see that. Right, the sentence "strč čtvrt (pronounced "štvrt") prst skrs krk" can prove problematic as it lacks substantial voweling (the opposite of Daatch), but still! An individual language, quite different from Polish!
One must face the spirit of almost-bokn Czechs with awe, with all that other nations did to them! So I agree with OSC when he said that "And Czechland is HARDLY an "obscure" country in central Europe - at least not to anyone educated in European history".
However, I would like to state that OSC should play careful whn discussing "the nation that the vain "peace-loving" British and French sacrificed to Hitler in order to trade YOUR live and freedom for THEIR avoidance of war". It's a controversial statement.
As for the cheapness, a bottle of coke (2.5 litres) cost there 27 Crowns (when it was 10 Crowns to the New Israeli Shekel), and here you paid 5 Shekels a bottle of 0.5 litres. I paid 36 Crowns for Sid Meier's "Colonization" at the time...
JH
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: It is called Czechy in Polish.
And Rome is called "Řim" (unless you're Czech or Polish, it's impossible to pronounce the first letter)! A Kangaroo is called "Klokan" in Czech, and wait until you hear cities' names! I was almost called "Jonatano Hawardowa" in my passport (we fought for getting that stupid feminine extension off -- they wanted it on because my mother got me my passport from her side).
It means very little what the Poles call the Czechs, honestly.
[ April 24, 2005, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:To Noemon: It is hard to believe that someone can remember me here or even miss me. I am mostly just an observer, but I am here for years.
Yeah, I know--kind of funny, isn't it? You haven't even posted here two dozen times. And yet, you made an impression. I think that it's because you and I had a conversation back when I was relatively new (and posting under my original screen name of Jake) about...Stanislaw Lem maybe? Anyway, at that point interacting with people over this medium was a novel thing for me, so the memory of it (now faded so much that when I poke at it to see what it was I discover it's gone mostly to dust) stuck with me, along with warm feelings toward you.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Call it Czechia the way that the Canads call their country Canadia.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
Czechland is also where they throw you out of a window if you try to curtail their religious freedoms. Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
The more I hear the term "Czechland," the more it sounds to me like a supermarket. And you'd probably have to bag your own groceries.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Call it Mooseia!
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote:It means very little what the Poles call the Czechs, honestly.
Not to me, it don't. I was making an observation, why the hostility, Jon?
Rome in Polish is Rzym, with the first sound very easy to pronounce (it's like the first sound in French word Jacque). And kangaroo is kangur.
Hmmm.... I forgot the word now, but there is a very innocent word in Polish which sounds just the same as the Czech swearword.
-- ETA: Surveyor, have you read anything by Andrzej Sapkowski?
[ April 25, 2005, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Kama ]
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
"It is called Czechy in Polish" ...
Are you sure? Because "e" is a vowel, and so I'm not sure it exists in Polish.
No, that's right, you are allowed one vowel per word in Polish. Just so Americans will THINK there must be a way to pronounce it, and then their attempts will amuse Poles.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
I've lived in Poland all my life, I'm fairly certain
[it's the Czechs who don't have vowels, not us]
[ April 25, 2005, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: Kama ]
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: it's like the first sound in French word Jacque
No, it's not. The sound "ř", is not "rz", it's "rž" without the voice (like the difference between "d" and "t"). That's much harder to pronounce! The tourists will get along with French "J", but again -- it's "like" that, not quite the same.
quote:
quote: It means very little what the Poles call the Czechs, honestly.
Not to me, it don't. I was making an observation, why the hostility, Jon?
It's not hostility, but simply, if you call the Czechs by Polish names, you start calling Poles by Czech names, or have the risk of it. You should rely on English, not historic inter-Slav politics.
Besides, peoples in Europe call other peoples by insulting names, Bill Bryson discusses it in "Mother Tongue", a book that someone moved from its place so I can't quote it just yet...
That's the issue.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
In Polish it is, Jon. Not in Czech, I've no idea how to pronounce it in Czech.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Czechy is an official name for the country in Polish, that's what I'm saying. No more, no less, just a simple observation that it's not a word OSC made up.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: In Polish it is, Jon.
Wow, you Poles really are going down in phonetics: what happened to the proud, Slav spirit? Are you no more a part of the Union of Slav Peoples? The USP means nothing to you right now? At least we, Czecha, know what we're doing!
Excuse me, I've been listening to the climax of the Volga Boatmen's song... But seriously!!!
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
I dunno. I personally always found Czech very funny-sounding. Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
<Post removed, because even with parts untranslated it was out of line.>
[ April 25, 2005, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by Melissa Dedinová (Member # 7890) on :
My Polish friend says Czech sounds like Polish with a sandwich in your mouth. To me Polish sounds, er, similar. Czech is the most logical and natural language possible (with the exception of English), and all other Slavic languages are cutely different. Slovak, particularly, is just an inherently adorable language. I have to stop myself from repeating everything Slovaks say just so I can sound that cute. And I don't think that just because of my husband. As far as I can tell.
If I knew there was a Moravian member of Hatrack, Surveyor 2, I'd forgotten already. I'm glad you're here!
I have, incidentally, reregistered. I am considering making myself a Welcome to Hatrack thread since I never would have dreamed of doing it the first time around.
- lissande
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Chzechland/Chzechy/Moosia is the home of Prague, my single favorite European city. Oh, that was fabulous. My major mistake in Europe was going to the best city first. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
lissande! good to see you back
everyone who reads Czech (or Polish, for that matter) should read Andrzej Sapkowski.
Some questions to answer, some things to respond to. Kama, I am not sure which innocent word you mean, I only remember that the Polish word for "to search, to look for" (szukat?) sounds like the Czech word for "to screw" (when the "f**k" word is not allowed here). But these funny coincidences can be found between most languages. I am ashamed to say I haven't read much by Andrzej Sapkowski (only one short story!), but I know he is very popular here, as well as other Polish writers (Pilipiuk, Lewandowski). But I met Andrzej at least twice at some conventions, probably even drank beer at the same table Will you forgive me if I say that I grew to love SF reading Lem and Zajdel? Before 1989, many Czech SF&F fans learned to read Polish, because much more books from UK and USA were published in Poland at the time. "Ř" is a Czech phonetic speciality, as well as words like "zmrzlina" (an ice cream).
Some history to mention: the Czechs are Slavs, of course, but in all their history they had closer ties to West-Europe countries than other Slavonic nations.
Nice to meet you here, Lissande! I like the Slovak language and Slovaks as people. In fact, I live less than 15 miles from the Slovak border now!
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Everyone who reads Polish should read this guy, too.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote: To jebus202: That's true, but America had no treaty with Czechoslovakia at the time. UK and France had, but still they commited their treason in Munich
Really? I didn't know they had a treaty.
Regardless, I'm not defending Britain and France. But hindsight is, as they say, 20/20. To call France and Britain vain and quote unquote peace-loving because of the policy of appeasement is sheer naivety and shows an immature understanding of the seriousness of the issue. After Hitler took over the rest of Czechoslovakia, Britain went and introduced conscription, they were preparing for war but required more time. So for an American to attack solely the UK and France in this matter is laughable, considering how slow they were to join the war.
If it was tongue-in-cheek then alright, I just think that there are other countries who should be mocked aswell.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
Surveyor, I didn't know that many writers were translated into Czech. I LOVE Zajdel! Limes inferior is one of the top ten books list. For myself, I cant say I know Czech writers too well. When I was a kid, a lot of Czech science fiction was published in this sci-fi magazine. Ondrej Neff is one I still remember. But wow, I'm so jealous - drinking with Sapkowski is something I never got to do.
yes, I think it was the word "szukac"
--
Moose, I'm not sure if the link's legal. it looks like the entire text of Investment Councellor.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I already asked OSC about it (long ago), and it's there with permission.
I didn't link to any English translation(s), which aren't with permission. I sent OSC the links I found way back when.
--Pop
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
If anyone is interested in a fabulous Czech film, czech out Autumn Spring. It's grrrrreat!
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
just checking Posted by Surveyor 2 (Member # 347) on :
Annie, you've got me thinking quite hard with The Autumn Spring! In the end I had to google the original title of the movie. Yes, I loved it too. The great thing is that it's one of the Czech films that can beat even Hollywood blockbusters here.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I was making an observation, why the hostility, Jon? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
Will you forgive me if I say that I grew to love SF reading Lem and Zajdel?