This is topic Okay, I give up, let's just all say "comfterble" in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
I give up.

[ April 28, 2005, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
Ah! But "Komf-ter-bal" merely has an extremely shortened "o", instead of a total rearrangement of letters!

It's like saying "Let's got down (strange hiccupy pause) pub." It's not a a mispronouciation but a contraction.

</rationalisation>
 

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Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
One day, a man in a distant town went to the store. He started noticing one by one, people were going insane. He told people they were going insane, and to be warned, but no one headed his words. Soon, all of society was nuts, and the man couldn't stand it any more, so he left society and lived as a hermit in the hills. Years passed until he finally gave up, and went back to the town as an insane man. The town welcomed him back to sanity.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Ah! Look again more closely.

The real word is C-O-M-F-O-R-T-A-B-L-E, but we all say it C-O-M-F-T-O-R-B-L-E.

And it's misproNUNciation.

[ April 28, 2005, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
 

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Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
And once again, Jon Boy puts the nun back into pronunciation.
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
But again, the same thing.

Comfortable

Comf'table

Comf'terbal

... wait, why am I arguing with Jon Boy on pronUNciation?
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
That's not the same thing as deleting a syllable. That's switching the orders or at least two sounds; it's called metathesis, which is process that explains the mispronunciation of the word nuclear (actually, it's slightly more complicated than that, but not by much).
 

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Posted by Lost Ashes (Member # 6745) on :
 
Hmm, of all the words to slur a bit for ease of pronunciation, wouldn't "comfortable" be the most appropriate?
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
Well, in reality, I actually just delete and don't add in the "er" or "al" sounds, so metathesis doesn't apply to me, although it may apply to others.

I've already been stumped and mollified in the other thread, by 'February', which it has been pointed out is mispronounced as 'Febyuary'.


 

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Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
How about "Comfy"?
 

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Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
I think the difference here is that educated people say "nuclear" and uneducated people say "nukyular", while there is no such correlation for comfterble/comfortable.

*pronounces February correctly*
 

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Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
 
Comfytable? Pear pimples for hairy fishnuts? Comfygerbil?
 

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Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
No, I mean the word "comfy" by itself. No "tables" or "tbles".
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 

quote:

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Well, in reality, I actually just delete and don't add in the "er" or "al" sounds, so metathesis doesn't apply to me, although it may apply to others.

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So you pronounce it without an r sound altogether? What are you, a limey?

The "al" is just supposed to represent a schwa followed by an l, just like in the "correct" pronunciation of comfortable. It just looked funny to spell it comfterble. Well, actually, maybe it doesn't. I think I'll change it.

quote:

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Hmm, of all the words to slur a bit for ease of pronunciation, wouldn't "comfortable" be the most appropriate?

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And have you ever noticed how easy it is to slur the word slur? And how hard it is to say the word lisp if you have a lisp?
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 

 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Don't mind me. I'm just giving you a bad time, and apparently it's working.

[ April 28, 2005, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
I'm not minding you. I think it's hilarious, and interesting. And I'm procrastinating on studying, so that's a good thing.
 

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Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
JB:

Or..could today's Englsh be so warped that the correct way to say it is lithp and not lisp? Could a lisp then be considered a good thing? Not that it's so bad in the first place, mind you.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
*head a-splodes*
 

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Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
Lithp
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
And is "a-splode" an acceptable corruption of the word "explode"?

(I tried to find some sort of term for the modification of the vowel but didn't find anything, sadly)
 

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Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
Ditto, Teshi.
 

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Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
Actually, I think it's spelled əsplode.
 

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Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
 
What about "ekcetra"?
 

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Posted by imenimok (Member # 7679) on :
 
Or expresso.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Don't forget expecially. You know, for all those xpecial people.
 

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Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
 
Oh, yeah, that's another one that gets me.
 

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Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
 
I expecially axed you not to use expecially! This SuxoRS!!!!!!111111
 

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Posted by Der Grammatikfuehrer (Member # 5015) on :
 
Just remember: in another thousand years or so, all of these "incorrect" pronunciations may be correct. Just think of the mispronouncers as language innovators.
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
Iroquois are "irr-o-koy" because of French. Ir should be "irr-o-qua", if I'm not mistaken, as French pronunciation should be adopted. They called them by the phonetic name, and the English colonists took the spelling.

No?

I suggest "kumf't'ble" ("kum" because spelling it with a "c" might seem a bit obscene - but that way we get rid of the "o").

JH
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
And it's Xechra, of course.

Although, it's a shame to leave Latin... Just like "Videeow".

Lets rait fonetikly. Owkei?

Edit to Add: Where did this "ASPLODE" business come from? Reminds me of LotF: - "My grandmother said I can't swim on account of my asthma!" - "ASS-mar?!?!"

[ April 30, 2005, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Hey, Jonathan, want to come over to my house and watch some wee-DAY-ohs?

Of course, it's important to remember that English speakers speak English, not Latin or French. It's a little silly to make English speakers follow the rules of a foreign language when they're speaking their own language.
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 

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Hey, Jonathan, want to come over to my house and watch some wee-DAY-ohs?

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Glad to, but you live far away from me.

And yes, it's stupid to follow the plurals of other linguae and their grammatical rules - but English is a mess of Grammar, as German is a mess of syntax (sentences that are 50 words long).

We have Latin grammar*, German vocabulary, Viking pronouns** and French spelling. It just doesn't fit!

I mean, apostrophes, why not drop them? And why not make punctuation easier as it was in classical Jewish writings***? today we've got a mess of punctuation, and it's not necessary - from experience.

JH

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* The apostrophe-s, for instance: "servus Caecilium", it means "Caecilius's servant".

** "Them" is Viking. "Hem" is Old English.

*** One dot, ".", is like a comma or a semi-colon; two dots, ":", is like a full stop. Three dots, ":.", is a "paragraph" end and four dots, "::", is the end of a chapter, or major sector of content.

[ April 30, 2005, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Actually, the 's possessive marker comes from Old English. There is virtually no real Latin grammar in English beyond a few plural endings like alumnus/alumni.

Our core vocabulary is Germanic (but not German) in origin because English is a Germanic language. But then there's a lot of French and Latin vocabulary added on top of that.

Only the third-person plural pronouns are Norse in origin. All the rest come from good ol' Old English.

English spelling is most certainly not French in origin. English spelling is a mess because it reflects different English dialects and because it was never standardized phonetically like some languages have been. French spelling is a mess because pronunciation has changed so much since it was standardized.

I'm (almost) all for dropping apostrohes, though, except maybe for contractions and a couple other things. Even though plurals and possessives often sound identical, we can rely on context to indicate which it is. The same should apply to writing. But what about plural possessives? Maybe it wouldn't be a problem, but I don't know.
 

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Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
 
Curse you all for bringing this to my attention. I've now been saying it different ways with the realization that I don't know how I normally pronounce the word!

Why is this such a big deal? I work in customer service at a major bed company. This is the kind of word that I say and hear ALL DAY.

This is going to drive me nuts.
(Yarrr!)

--Enigmatic
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
It depends on your preferable phonetics.

Texans, New Yorkans, Sydneysiders and Glasgewians (sp?) might pronounce the "ay" combination slightly differently (I know the Glasgewians do).

Seying it "d-e-i" won't get you too many problems.

But that's not the answer to your problems.

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Jon Boy: The 's is the only ending of the Latin type that remains in English. But it's still got those three apostrophe-usage rules (Mark's dog/Mrs Jones's house; my friends' clothes; Jesus' actions).

English spelling is vry much French. And quite a few Latin words came into English through french. "Color" in Latin was "coulour" (now "couleur") in French, and consequently "colour" in English (until Americans came and decided they want to return to Latin origins).

Our spelling is heavily influenced by the dialects, which came from many languages' writing. OSC's son, Geoff, you'd expect to pronounce "Je(e)-off" or something similar; but it's "Jeff". Why the spelling? French. It was Geoffrey Chaucer (and that was how I knew that it's "Jeff", by the way), and I guess that remains of old French spelling still remained in English. And how many ways were thre to spell what's today "Shakespeare"?

One other regarding apostrophes (plural possessives will be an interesting case, but I recommend writing "Jesuss", still): "it's" and "its" are still weird. If "its" is the possessive of "it", we need to have it it's! Of course, I don't rebel my own writing, but it as a weird case... And we need neuter in English. Like the he/she, "he or she", "they" problem, bcause you never call a human "it" (except for very rare cases, one in my class, ).
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 

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The 's is the only ending of the Latin type that remains in English.

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English spelling is vry much French.

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quote:

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"it's" and "its" are still weird.

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quote:

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And we need neuter in English. Like the he/she, "he or she", "they" problem, bcause you never call a human "it" (except for very rare cases, one in my class, ).

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