Ugh. As both a mom and professional child care worker, this creeps me out and angers me. How she thought her excuses were valid is beyond me. Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Woah... some people need to like... chiiill out, okay?
It was like, nudity, yea? Adam and Eve were naked man... Babies are naked... Animals are naked... Why not women? You know? Or maybe we should arrest the babies and the animals too! Hahahaha
People need to stop stressing over the biology lesson... k?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
She never defended herself, she just explained why she went crazy. That is what it sounds like to me, anyway. It is sad all the way around.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Clearly, the four year old has been traumatized and will grow up to be a mere shell of a human being.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Also, had she waited a few weeks to do this, she would be looking at 25 years minimum in prison and been tracked by satellite for life once she got out.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Things that caught my eye:
quote:She took the job in September 2003, she said, understanding it would be 35 to 40 hours a week. But before long, it grew to 55 to 65 hours a week.
quote:Slicker also was struggling with the 4-year-old boy. In December 2003, friends and parents like Johnson said Slicker complained to them that he had grabbed at her breasts and her buttocks.
The boy's mother acknowledged her son exhibited the behavior before Slicker arrived, but said it increased during her tenure.
quote:"She was not making any life-changing decisions. I mean, she's playing with kids. I'm out delivering 15 babies a month and seeing 100 patients a week. She's a college graduate."
I get the horrible feeling there's something very wrong in that house, beyond anything to do with this nanny.
Dagonne
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Yeah, Dag, I do too. Those things caught my eye as well. Also the psycologists report on Slicker:
quote:The psychologist reported Slicker's "sexuality was nonexistent," she was not a "sexual deviant," and she did not derive sexual pleasure from the incident, the report said.
I think those psycologists ought to take a look at that kid. And maybe the parents as well.
Edit: Editted for clarity.
[ May 01, 2005, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Alcon ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I don't agree that just because the kid wanted to see her woo-woo, that means he's suffered abuse, if that's what y'all are suggesting. While we all know that hypersexuality over and above a child's age can indicate abuse, kids are curious, and I just don't believe that wanting to see indicates abuse and that you have to put the parents through the wringer.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Even so, I have a hard time accepting she was so exhausted as to allow a child to touch her in a sexually explicit manner.
That said, the behavior is suspicious in a four year old, but I don't think that diminishes her responsibility in the matter.
-Trevor
Posted by Avadaru (Member # 3026) on :
I do not think that Slicker made a good choice, by any means, in doing what she did, but I also don't think the whole story is being told here. I'd like to know a little bit more about this kid.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
There's more than just wanting to see the woo-woo there. And I don't recall mentioning a ringer.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Like the theme to Star Trek?
[ May 01, 2005, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Fine, "wringer."
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
*poke*
I just don't see the child acting out sexually in a way to suggest that he had been abused. Seen one too many James Bond films, o.k. But abused? No.
Being investigated for abuse of any kind is hard on the person and, if word gets out in the community, as it almost certainly will, can be hard on that person or family's standing in the community, which *is* very hard on them.
I recognize that we are talking about the safety of a child, but I just don't think that investigations should happen on, what is to me in this case, pretty much nonexistent evidence of abuse. I respect the fact that you believe otherwise, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Storm, there was aggressive grabbing before the nanny showed up.
I haven't even said they should be investigated.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
quote: "She was not making any life-changing decisions. I mean, she's playing with kids. I'm out delivering 15 babies a month and seeing 100 patients a week. She's a college graduate."
This seems to me like the words of a woman who has never truly been a parent. That she was taking on an increasingly greater role in the raising of these children, who were not hers, bothers me. It really seems, to me, like these parents were trying to pay someone to take on all the responsibilities of being a parent. Of course, that's just what I'm thinking right now. I don't think I have much of a basis to judge anyone on this, but from what I read, it seems like the parents are just as screwed up as the nanny.
Posted by Avadaru (Member # 3026) on :
quote: This seems to me like the words of a woman who has never truly been a parent. That she was taking on an increasingly greater role in the raising of these children, who were not hers, bothers me. It really seems, to me, like these parents were trying to pay someone to take on all the responsibilities of being a parent. Of course, that's just what I'm thinking right now. I don't think I have much of a basis to judge anyone on this, but from what I read, it seems like the parents are just as screwed up as the nanny.
Exactly.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
Four?
--j_k
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I think it's highly possible that there is something wrong with the family. But I also think nothing, nothing excuses Slicker taking off her clothes.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I agree, DPR, but I don't think she is really trying to excuse herself at all. She flipped out, and is suffering the consequences of her flip-out.
I just think there is a whole lot more going on in this case. What she did was terribly wrong and she knows it. But these people sound a bit freakish. I am not excusing her behavior. She owns her behavior. I just don't think it is a case which merits a general hysteria over the secret sexual weirdness of nannies.
[ May 01, 2005, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by tern (Member # 7429) on :
I knew a five year old who would hump your leg in a sexual way (which was really, really disgusting and we tried to stay way way away from him) - he had some serious parental neglect from a very early age + they also had sex in front of him a lot...
But that being said, there is absolutely no excuse for what this nanny did. None whatsoever.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I don't know if it sounds like the kid was abused, I don't know anything about that, but it does sound like the kid is a spoiled brat. Which I do know about.
Edit: And even though it's WEIIIIIRRRRDDD... I don't think it merits the kind of uproar that it got. I don't think there's "NO EXCUSE". I could see that if she'd touched the kid or made him touch her. Sounds like it was voluntary.
It doesn't look like she got naked in a sexual way, she wasn't telling the kid to do things to her, whatev. She just took a leave from reality and she's paying dearly for it. I can see myself or anyone doing the something similar if I cracked.
[ May 01, 2005, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Ryuko ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
She has a degree in pre-k ed. She should know better than to comply with that kind of demand, even in a "flipped out" state. But I seriously hope that that child will be getting psychological evaluation and treatment, and not just for this.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I can’t believe the father let a 4 year old watch a James Bond movie. He gave the remote to the nanny and told her to fast forward through the questionable parts – exactly what part of a James Bond movie is appropriate for a 4-year old?
I’m not particularly surprised that a kid that age who saw a sex scene in a movie would do what he did. Especially since his parents don’t seem to be in the habit of setting limits.
None of which excuses the nanny from saying “no way”, of course. It sounds like she got into the habit of letting this family walk all over her, and I feel sorry for her, but it was still her responsibility.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Well, I guess I read too much into your post, then, Dagonee. Pardon.
Posted by Jaiden (Member # 2099) on :
Is all nudity wrong in front of children? When I used to take care of my cousins, any child around two and younger wasn't allowed left alone. If it was just a cousin under two and myself and we were going swimming I'd get changed in the same room. Did I flaunt myself? No, I always tried to do the big t-shirt on and try not to reveal myself at all. Did they ever see me naked? Partially, most likely yes. I don't remember nor care- it was not sexual, it was practical.
Where is the line drawn? I don't agree with what she did, but if a mother did that would she be considered a sexual offender? *looks puzzled*
[ May 01, 2005, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Jaiden ]
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Jaiden, I think even if it had been the mother it would still be inappropriate. My kids still see me naked quite a bit. I mean, after all, we live together and I have to change clothes, bathe, and go to the bathroom. However, the context there is a lot different than one of them demanding I take off my clothes and me doing it and allowing them to touch me.
Again, I think it's the situation, and I think you have to be careful. On one hand you don't want your kids weirded out by nudity (in my house it's a matter of fact thing) but on the other hand you can go too far.
space opera
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
What's the huge difference between seeing and touching?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Try it and see, jebus, the next time you're at a club.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Ha ha!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"She has a degree in pre-k ed. She should know better than to comply with that kind of demand, even in a "flipped out" state."
Well, the thing is, the whole meaning of being crazy is that you don't know better, and don't act in a rational way, because you are crazy.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote: I can’t believe the father let a 4 year old watch a James Bond movie. He gave the remote to the nanny and told her to fast forward through the questionable parts – exactly what part of a James Bond movie is appropriate for a 4-year old?
That's what I was thinking. What the nanny did was wrong, but I think the family needs to take a hard look at themselves. I'm sure there's more to it, but it doesn't sound like the family takes the responsibilities of raising children seriously.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
No pun intended, right Ms. Opera?
-Trevor
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:Try it and see, jebus, the next time you're at a club.
Well maybe it's just me, but all the ladies I know love getting groped.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
And for those of you wondering if Jebus knows any women, there's your answer.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Theres one around here somewhere, I'm sure of it.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
As long as your standards are not so high as to include human ladies, Jebus, I think you should be all set.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Well, I am Irish.
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
Umm yeah try it with a stranger at a club and see the difference.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote: Well, the thing is, the whole meaning of being crazy is that you don't know better, and don't act in a rational way, because you are crazy.
I don't think what happened sounded like she was really crazy. Detatched and fatigued, yes. Crazy, no. I think if she was still capable of knowing what was the wrong thing to do, even if she wasn't quite sure what the right thing was. But that's just a judgement call on my part, I know. That's why we have juries.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I just don't buy her story... If it is as she says, then she is one seriously disturbed young woman. The other alternative, which means she's even more disturbed, is that she made up the whole thing and really is a sexual predator.
It also sounds like that child has been abused before--or been exposed to a lot of sexual activity or media. (Although, the article might have just put that slant on it--it could be that he's perfectly normal.. it's not the first time I've heard of little boys grabbing boobs until they've learned not to do it.)
The whole thing is just weird. Her lying down and completely disrobing really adds to the weirdness and makes me really doubt her story. If she had just flashed him, while that would still have been COMPLETELY innappropriate, it would have matched her story a little better. As it is, I'm of the opinion that she probably did this before--I also don't buy the asexual story.
Also, I hardly think that boy will suffer any permanent damage. It's not the most traumatic thing to happen to a kid.
-Katarain
[ May 02, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Katarain ]
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Regardless of the nanny's extremely bad decision, it just seems to me that the parents aren't doing a very good job raising their kid. Sounds like he has the run of the house, at least from that article.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Oh yeah, another thing that bothered me was that the mother told her son he had done nothing wrong. He did--if the story is accurate, and while I don't think he should have the BLAME for what happened (she was the adult, after all), I think the mother would do well to teach her son what is and isn't appropriate behavior and what requests are okay to make of the babysitter.
Messed up family.
-Katarain
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
I think the woman was a fatigued, chronic doormat, who had a lapse in judgement. A big one, as it turns out.
The Bad in this situation, jebus, isn't the Naked. It's in just doing whatever a four-year-old asks.
Now, in my own experience, there have been times when I complied with a request from youngest that I should have known better than to go along with, like giving him scissors. Even though we were all at the table with paper and stuff, prior experience should have told me that he would not confine his cutting to the paper. *sigh* My Beloved used to say, "What? Did he do a Jedi Mind Trick on you?"
My kids occassionally see me naked when they rush in the bathroom and I'm showering and stuff. I have given the talks about privacy, and they know to leave when they walk in on me. I don't make a big deal of it, but I did begin trying not to be naked around the oldest when he started ... well, paying attention.
The other night at dinner with Ben, Ophelia and Taalcon, Liam hugged me from behind with his hands on my breasts. It was a bit shocking, but I didn't get mad. We talked about it later, that there are places you shouldn't touch without asking permission, and so forth.
The kid is not evil, and I don't think the nanny is either. If I found out a babysitter was letting my boys touch her goodies, though, I wouldn't use her anymore. It's not a question of bodies being evil and dirty, it's a question of boundaries.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I would like to point out that the nanny turned herself in. We don't know exactly how the mother would have reacted; would she have fired her and not given her a reference? Would she have reported her? The point is rather moot. She felt she did something wrong, and turned herself in.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
THe mother thought the nanny got off too easy.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, then she definitely would have reported her. But the fact that the nanny turned herself in says she knew what she was doing was wrong.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Or she was contacted and given the choice to turn herself in to avoid being publicly arrested.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
But I would have fought it if I didn't think I'd done anything wrong.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
quote:But the fact that the nanny turned herself in says she knew what she was doing was wrong.
So would the fact that she said "I knew this was wrong."
[ May 02, 2005, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Portabello ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Right, but as any defense lawyer would point out - don't say anything unless you want to literally throw yourself on the mercy of the court for having no other options.
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