Ugly Children May Get Parental Short Shrift So…. They never did ask the parents if they thought their kids were ugly. How do you get money for these studies?
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I kindda agree with this, but I don't think I would bias my children based on how pretty hey may or may not be. They would still be my kids and they all deserve to be treated the same way. Unless ofcourse they are naughty...Then you spank! Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I wonder if the cause/effect might not go the other way sometimes. I mean, ya fall out of the shopping cart on your face a couple of times and you probably won't be a pretty kid for long. Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
true too.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:So…. They never did ask the parents if they thought their kids were ugly. How do you get money for these studies?
For once, I agree with you, Jay.
I also wonder what their criteria were for judging a child ugly.
I have never met a parent who thought their own child was ugly, though I am sure they exist.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
I'm a little skeeved out by the researchers rating people's children 1-10 on physical attractiveness. Something about that is just wicked sketchy.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
I know for a fact that better looking kids get better care in the average Daycare setting, and are also more likely to be treated better in school.
When Robert was a baby and I still had to work part time (just until the hubby found a different placement so he wouldn't have to travel) he got more attention from the caregivers than the less photogenic babies. I came in once when one of the girls was aking the other one, "Oh, can I hold him now?" I hung around a bit to let her cuddle on him. It was funny.
And don't even get me started on the horrible things Liam has gotten away with at preschool on account of his huge Elijah Wood eyes. Do *I* treat them differently? I don't think so. I think Robert probably thinks I'm too hard on him manners-wise, but he's older. I do expect him to behave a bit better.
And, of course, I think they are BOTH adorable. ;P
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I don't think there is such a thing as an ugly child though.
Posted by starlooker (Member # 7495) on :
Exactly. There's no parent in the world who would tell you that their child is ugly. So why bother asking?
Nor is there any point in asking parents, "Do you treat your children any different based on their physical appearance?" It's very seldom that you'd find a parent who admits that to themself, much less to some nosy researcher.
The study may have flaws -- I haven't read it -- but choosing to look at actual behavior rather than stated attitudes is not one of those flaws.
(Although, I do think that the link to evolutionary theory is probably specious at best, and I do think the SES criticism probably has some merit. I tend to think it might have more to do with the high value society places on looks. I wonder if there would've been similar findings back when media was less prevalent.)
Also, I'd find Dr. Harrell's assertion that the importance of physical attractiveness cutting "across social class, income, and education" a lot more credible if the research had actually taken into account social class, income, and education.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
It's sad, but I think there is truth to what is in the article. While no parent may think any of their children are ugly, they may unconsciously respond with a stronger "bond" to the ones who they perceive as being more cute.
Certainly it is the cutest babies that get the most attention from strangers.
I think it is a good impulse to fight against, to balance and overcome, but I am of the belief that the impulse exists. Certain forms and shapes automatically tap into our mothering/protecting instinct. How closely a child conforms to those forms effects how much they tap into that.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I wonder if any of the ugliness can be attributed to the parents' lack of concern for their kids. Were they rated lower because their clothes were dirty, their hair was a mess, they had snot coming out of their nose that nobody was wiping away, etc.?
The parents that show less concern for things like that might also show less concern for their well being.
Posted by Randi (Member # 7904) on :
I think we have a very narrow ideal of what beauty is in our current culture. The extreme makeover t.v. shows are narrowing the ideal even more. I think the participants on those shows are starting to look like clones.
How do we work towards expanding the range of what is beautiful? Not just in children, but also as we age?
Posted by starlooker (Member # 7495) on :
Interesting... I was trying to find the original article (I REALLY wish NYT would've provided a citation, APA style preferred... *grumble*), and apparently Dr. Harrell has done at least 5 similar studies before... NOT on attractiveness, but on the effects of using seatbelts in grocery carts & presence or absence of adult supervision on children engaging in dangerous shopping cart related behavior.
I STILL can't find the article in question in PsychInfo, though. *grumbles*
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Of course, there are other things than just "cuteness" or "beauty" that naturally tap into that protective instinct.
Of our three children, there is one that I have always perceived as not being as "cute" or "pretty" as the other two. Not because this one is ugly or anything, but because in my perception the other two are quite above average. But this child also has the most amazing aura of sweetness and gentleness--it just melts my heart. Therefore I think it balanced any natural effects any lack in appearance would have had on me.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
We not only use a seatbelt. We have a seat cover that keeps our son from touching or mouthing anything on the cart.
I now realize we do that because he is just incredibly good-looking.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
This billboard ad campaign is currently getting a lot of attention in Salt Lake. Nobody knows who's paying for these ads. A lot of people have complained to the sign company, and one company has pulled the ads entirely, passing up a $40,000 contract in doing so.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I saw that billboard the other day! My response was,
quote: Huh?
It looks like those pictures were cut out of old yearbooks.
*doesn't think those kids are ugly*
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Just go ahead and talk to my mother. Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
That is bizarre.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"*doesn't think those kids are ugly*"
Those kids are ugly. One is so ugly that I suspect digital manipulation.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
Yup. The one with the dark hair.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
*looks again*
Yeah, I guess I can see evidence of digital manipulation on both boys. Smile too big on the dark-haired, eyes, ears, and smile too big on the light-haired. Not sure on the girl.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
They just look cartoony to me. I also suspect digital manipulation.
Posted by IdemosthenesI (Member # 862) on :
I'm sorry, people. I don't know where you've been, but there are indeed ugly children. I work at a GameStop. Some of the kids that come into my store (not many, but some) are actually hideous. Strangley enough, it always seems to be the loudest and most horrible children as well. I don't know why that is, but so far it's seemed to be the case. Son't get me wrong, the proportion of ugly children is indeed much smaller than the proportion of ugly adults, but they are out there.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Photoshop's Liquify feature. Takes about 2 minutes.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I really don't think those kids are that ugly. They're not beautiful, but I've seen much less attractive children (I'm not counting children with craniofacial disorders here. Some of those kids are cute or pretty in their own way, but none of them are beautiful by normal standards. Not counting kids with cleft lips and/or palates, that doesn't do too much harm to a kid's looks.)
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:I'm sorry, people. I don't know where you've been, but there are indeed ugly children.
That may be true from your point of view. But the point is, do their parents think they're ugly?
I was thinking that personality also plays into it. My sister got a lot more attention when we were little because she was outgoing and dimpled at everyone, whereas I was shy and quiet.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:That may be true from your point of view. But the point is, do their parents think they're ugly?
Will members of the opposite sex find them attractive when they come of age? Somehow I doubt it.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I am not talking about the kids in the billboard pictures. My quote refers back to IdemosthenesI assertion that there are indeed ugly children.
Besides, sometimes children considered by some to be unattractive become very attractive as adults.
[ May 03, 2005, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:My sister got a lot more attention when we were little because she was outgoing and dimpled at everyone, whereas I was shy and quiet.
Both of my nieces are absolutely breath-taking, but the oldest is blue-eyed, blonde, and very quiet and ladylike. The next one is brown-eyed, has curly brown hair, and has so much personality and fire that you know the instant she enters the room. In pictures of her, she practically bursts out of the frame, there's so much sparkle in her eyes. I wonder how that will be for them sometimes. They look completely different - you'd never guess they were sisters. The quiet one is two years older, though, so she won't be overshadowed. That's good.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Kat, your post reminds me of a woman I was friends with when I lived in Israel. She had two beautiful daughters, but the younger one had striking eyes, long-lashed and blue, that everyone always commented on. The mother once remarked to me that she wondered what the long term effect would be on the other daughter, as she was constantly hearing people, even strangers on the street, exclaim about "those eyes" of her younger sister.
[ May 03, 2005, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I always think of that scene in Little House on the Prarie. Pa and Laura and Mary go to town, and everyone from the shopkeeper to the ladies on the street exclaim over Mary's golden curls. Laura's hair was curled and beribboned as well, but no one said anything. It did not make her feel pretty.
It made a huge impression on me, mostly making me thankful that I didn't have sisters and so was never compared to anyone.
[ May 03, 2005, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
My sister and I were very different looking and both grew up thinking the other was "the pretty one". Go figure.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:I always think of that scene in Little House on the Prarie. Pa and Laura and Mary go to town, and everyone from the shopkeeper to the ladies on the street exclaim over Mary's golden curls. Laura's hair was curled and beribboned as well, but no one said anything. It did not make her feel pretty.
It made a huge impression on me, mostly making me thankful that I didn't have sisters and so was never compared to anyone.
Have you ever seen photos of the real Laura and Mary? Laura was much prettier, in my opinion, with a liveliness in her face, even in photos, that you really couldn't see in Mary's photos.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I think personality and grooming have much more to do with the preception of children's attractiveness than their actual features. The kids in that billboard aren't ugly, they just have very bad haircuts and bad teeth which are being prominently displayed. Also, the girl's glasses aren't flattering.
My favorite kids were always the ones with distinctive personalities, rather than the ones who were better-looking.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
There was a family of six girls that I knew growing up. They were all stunning beauties, exept for the one my age. She was very plain. I always felt very sorry for her.
I also had a huge non-requited crush on her.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Kat, that's funny. I often thought of "Little House" also, since my sister's name is Laura, and I'm Mary. I didn't have blonde hair, but I had light eyes while she was colored like Laura Engles. I think a lot of people commented on my "striking" appearance, but my sister was the one with the effervescence of personality that shown through her features.
Edit: (or what Ela said)
[ May 03, 2005, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Maybe they'll get the different reactions, and it all balances out. I frankly love that Sannah is a spitfire who is giving my brother hell. It's some sort of cosmic karmic payback for the years he spent telling me to be more ladylike. Sannah is so outgoing and spunky, and she loves me.
On the other hand, my dad and stepmom quite clearly approve of Katya's ladylike manners and quiet voice more so than Sannah's Sarah-Bernhardt-worthy dramatics, and they tend to pay her more attention. Maybe it evens out?
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
I saw studies about this years ago, and it is not just within the human sphere, animals will select for beautiful offspring to nurture. We had a cat that would throw out all her kittens but one! The biggest and most beautiful Tom!
BC
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You called?
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I have 5 daughters and they're all very pretty. My three older girls have red hair, very fair skin and gray, green or blue eyes. My 4th daughter is strikingly beautiful, and has been from the day she was born. She has huge brown eyes, long luxurious lashes, naturally curly golden brown hair, and olive skin that tans easily. My youngest daughter is a blue eyed blonde with fair skin, but she tans pretty easily.
I frequently worry about my youngest daughter, growing up in the shadow of her model-beautiful older sister (they're 14 and 16 now). She frequently complains that "everyone LOVES April". It doesn't help that April is very outgoing, while the younger sister is more reserved. I certainly think she's attractive in her own right, and while she doesn't have guys following her around like April does, she is moderately popular in her circle.
Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
Oh man, I went to uglykids.com just yesterday, after thinking about those billboards I've seen near my home, and I was like, "What the hey, this is just a page with dozens of stupid links. What's the point." But now I realize I just had the wrong address.
I think the purpose of uglykids.info is just to make me laugh at how funny looking the kids are. Some sick, hilarious joke; one that is not at my expense I might add (since I'm no longer a kid anymore).
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I hate to burst bubbles but (wait, or do I? ) but there are indeed parents out there who not only think their children are ugly, but go to great pains to make sure their children know it. My parents were two such people, and I've seen other parents talk about their ugly children in front of said children.
Granted, it's rude and abominable behavior, but it exists.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
) but there are indeed parents out there who not only think their children are ugly, but go to great pains to make sure their children know it. My parents were two such people, and I've seen other parents talk about their ugly children in front of said children.