This is topic The Fuel Pump Saga or Hatrack Could Not Care Less... Thread Ressurection. in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
Last week my fuel pump crapped out on me. I was driving down the road, headed towards work, when my car stalled out. I had been running low on gas, but it had juuuust rolled onto E and I figured I had a few more miles to go. To my suprise, it shortly stalled out in the middle of nowhere (I have a long commute).
I've run out of gas before with this car (I procrastinate on filling up my CAR even!), so I figured that was all that was wrong. I called AAA and they sent out a truck with some gas (do you KNOW how much they charge for gas delivery?). The driver put the gas in the car (like I couldn't do it.), but it still didn't turn over.
Crap. We played with the car a bit, he messed with the throttle body, but nothing happened. Eventually, we gave up and he towed me home.
After coming home from work that night (I drove my wife's car), I hit up Fleet Farm for a new fuel filter. I decided to go this route first since I actually needed to replace the thing anyways and it's possible that it may have been clogged (thus preventing fuel from getting to the engine).
Well, I spent that night replacing the filter. The connector from the fuel tank to the filter was rusted, and had swollen so much that the filter wouldn't come loose. I had to break the plastic clip off completely and use the one included with the filter.
It didn't fix the problem.
I wasn't too suprised- it was just the cheaper of the options and I thought it best if I tried it anyways.
I next moved on to the fuel pump relay. This part was more expensive than the filter, but the replacement was Easy Peasy Japanesey. I just pulled out the old one and put in the new one.
It still didn't fix the problem.
By this point, I'm sweating bullets. See, a brand new AC Delco replacement fuel pump for a 1996 Chevy Cavalier runs about $400 from a dealer. I don't want to spend that kind of money on a car I got for $500 (granted, it was a steal). I could go to Autozone (my home away from home) and get one for $250, but that's still too rich for my blood. I know it's the pump because it doesn't make any noise when I start up the car. I don't know if you've ever noticed, but when you start up your car, you hear a fairly quiet "rrrrrrr" sound. That's the pump priming the fuel system. It's creating the necessary pressure for fuel delivery. My car wasn't doing this and I knew I needed to replace the stupid thing.
Thank GOD for Ebay.
On Ebay, I found a used pump (68,000 miles) for $35 starting with $15 shipping. I bid on the item, but was concerned because I really, really wanted the pump for cheap. I didn't want someone to drive up the price over a hundred bucks. Fortunately, I found a place in town that had used pumps for about $75, but I held out on this auction because I'm a cheap bastard.
I still had to wait 7 days for the auction to end, but I won. Nobody else bid (who would, really?). Happily, the seller was prompt with delivery even though I never got any correspondence about the shipment (I hate that).
In the meantime, I drove my wife's car around and watched it suck up gas (it has a 6 cylinder engine whereas mine has 4). I mean, I can go a couple of weeks without filling up. So having to pump gas into her car was heartwrenching. I couldn't wait for the stupid pump to arrive.
I finally got it on Wednesday, but I had to sit on it because I needed an extra set of hands for the work. See, in newer cars, the fuel pump is located in the fuel tank itself. The fuel helps keep the pump from overheating (hence the reason you should keep the tank level above 1/4 and probably why my original pump failed) and I think the auto industry wants to make it as hard to replace the fuel pump as is physically possible.
So last night I invited a buddy over to give me some help getting the tank off. The pump rests on top so I have to completely remove the tank before I can make the change. I figure getting the tank off shouldn't be too hard, it's getting everything wired properly and connected that will be tough. The whole tank is only held on a couple of straps that run the length of the tank. These straps are held in place by a couple of bolts on one side, and a simple hook mechanism on the other. No problem, right?
Boy was I wrong.
See, the bolts had rusted. I hate rust. It sucks. I really should just move to a nice, dry southern state. It would make this kind of thing soooo much easier.
So, with WD-40 and raw, brute, manly strength ( ) I got the bolts loose and, in the process, banged the crap out of my knuckles (thank GOD for tetanus shots). Finally, the bolts were loose, I just had to finish getting them off. For some stupid reason, GM designed those bolts to be really, really long. So there was a lot of metal exposed and rusted. I gave them a few more turns but they stopped loosening- they just sat there and spun. See, the nuts were welded to a sheet of steel. The welds have rusted and broken and the bolts were just spinning on top. I could get a wrench up there, but the rust had caused the nuts to swell so the 15mm wrench that should have fit up there did not and the larger 16mm wrench wass still too big to give me adequate grip to break the rest of the rust along the length of the bolt.
I was kind of upset. I had spent a lot of time and energy getting the bolts loose and they just wouldn't go anywhere.
My friend and I tried prying the bolts off. We tried cutting them with a hack saw. We tried everything that we could think of to no avail. Fortunately, my neighbor was in his garage working on his Cherry Javelin . I went to him for some advice. He took a look at the bolts and, after much swearing and whistle blowing on his part, he lent me his grinder.
Let me just say that cutting a bolt out of a car with a grinder less than 4 inches away from the fuel tank and lines is one scary, scary task. I did it, but not without some quick prayers and a lot of patience. I didn't let the steel get too hot. It's not like there aren't a lot of sparks present. I was just concerned about melting a fuel line and having it spill all over me and igniting it with the grinder. Scary. I'm still feeling the heebie geebies.
I got the damn bolts off.
My friend left after that, and the neighbor took back his grinder. With what remained of the day, I disconnected all of the fuel lines, the wiring to the pump, the pipe that runs up to the side of the car for refueling, and the tank itself. I slid the tank out from under the car using my creeper and set it near the garage door for ventilation.
Bed time ensued.
I'll continue the fuel pump saga after tonight. I have to get the old pump out and put the new one in its place. I've already found that I can't get one of the connectors out yet because it's too rusted. I just ended up cutting the line it was connected to (I'll be replacing that soon). I am also having trouble with the fuel filter on the new pump. The junk pump came with an old filter attached. I'd rather put the new one on rather than leave the old one in its place. Then I have to get new bolts and remount the tank. That should be fun.
[Edit to fix a few paragraphs so they make some sense- and to placate Storm]
[ February 11, 2007, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Primal Curve ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Sounds like you've not had much fun at all! The last fuel pump I replaced was in an early 80's car, so it wasn't mounted in the tank and was much easier to get to. I love using grinders, but using it right next to the the disconnected fuel lines would make me nervous too. Good luck on getting it all finished and congratulations on finding cheap parts!
High up on my list of "Why did they do it this way?! It's now almost impossible to change!" parts is the oil pan gasket on my truck. Since it's 12 years old, the gasket could use replacing, but with the way they designed it, you can't change the gasket without *removing the engine from the vehicle* (too many crossmembers and the tranny are in the way). So, I'm wasteful in my use of oil, going through about a quart every 2000 miles or so, all because of a lack of foresight on the part of the designers....
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
manly. I could picture that so well. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
It was both a good and a bad experience. Part of me was pissed at the difficulty in doing something that should be so simple- the other part of me loved the challenge.
Plus, I got to play with my tools. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
I think I've discovered that auto repair is not a subject that Hatrack, as an organism, is interested in.
You'd rather talk about Cleavage.
[ May 06, 2005, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Primal Curve ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Not me. I'd rather watch men play with their tools.
Posted by DavidR (Member # 7473) on :
I hope someone was standing by with a fire extinguisher while you cut the bolt off with the grinder. We had to remove an engine from a crashed F/A-18 once and it required cutting the panels away so that we could get to the engine. We were constantly stopping to extinguish small fires before they could ignite anything flammable. Fun times.
I hope the rest of the job goes easier.
[ May 06, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: DavidR ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Is there something going around Hatrack? My Odyssey's fuel pump just had to be replaced two weeks ago.
Of course, since I am both a wimp and relatively clueless about the various bits that make up a car, I paid the mechanic to do it. NOT cheap, although they didn't charge me for the extra hour it took to remove the back seat and replace it. (For some reason, the fuel pump was bolted entirely through the floorboards. Mechanic said he'd never seen that before.)
Posted by tt&t (Member # 5600) on :
Cars are stupid. Bring back the horse and cart!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Then we'd be stepping in horse poo all the time!
Posted by tt&t (Member # 5600) on :
You don't watch where you walk?!
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Um, we already have cow and dog and cat and horse and water buffalo poo on the roads. And we have cars, too.
This is NOT the best of both worlds. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
She Started! Yes! It was all worth it!
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Now I just have to get some new bolts so I can strap the gas tank back in place. That shouldn't be too hard. <crosses fingers>
All said, this cost me far less than it would have to have a shop do it. I had to pick up some tools that I didn't have, but they were worth the money.
Parts: $500 (Gotta love those markups) Labor: $200+ Total: $700+
I'd just like to say... WOO-EFFIN-HOOO!!!
Me.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yay for do-it-yourselfers! I'm so glad she works again! Posted by tt&t (Member # 5600) on :
Yay doing repairs for lots cheaper than the mechanic quoted! I'm sure mechanics quote higher because I'm a girl, and I always call around several mechanics to make sure the price is at least semi-accurate... And if I think they're charging too much I just won't get it done there. I do not like getting ripped off. Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Ha!
I just changed my truck's drive belts today. Learned how to do it from a little something I like to call my Haynes manual.
The only two things that went wrong were skinned knuckles and the alternator belt was too small. Had to go back to Autozone to get a slightly larger one. Nothing is more manly than pushing through the door at Autozone with grease all over your hands and clothes like the pros apply it. Walking up to the guy at the register and going, "That alternator just didn't want to part with that last half centimeter. Gimme a bigger belt." Then standing there breathing hard.
Goodyear Gatorbacks, thank you very much. *pat pat* And not a squeal when I started up the truck.
Let me tell you, I have regained my confidence that I can do minor routine auto maintenance. Next up: changing the spark plugs. Complication: I don't know the gap specification.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
huzzah!
kylie, I don't have that problem only because my father is a mechanic. so as soon as I mention that, I'm treated fairly if they weren't before. however, I've found a place I trust, so all is okay.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
I hadn't read this thread until today but the first time I saw the title I figured that the car must be either a Cavalier or a Sunfire. My 1996 Cavalier had the same thing happen (I paid about $600 to have it fixed) and my Father in laws 2000 Sunfire had it go as well (He was stuck in a small town and his repairs cost nearly $900).
It's good that you get to keep all of your new tools along with the price you paid.
Posted by Mayfly (Member # 7870) on :
Yay!!!
I, too, had the awesome and unpredictable love of the inside of a Cavalier's heart. It is a fearsome thing.
--CT
[ May 07, 2005, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Mayfly ]
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
quote:Let me tell you, I have regained my confidence that I can do minor routine auto maintenance. Next up: changing the spark plugs. Complication: I don't know the gap specification.
afr, isn't this listed in your Haynes as well? I know it was listed in my Chilton for three different cars. Dad and I have done lots of do-it-yourself repairs on my vehicles over the past ten years... actually 20 or more if we count his cars, I remember helping him with a brake job on a BMW 320i when I was 11.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Holy Crap, solo, I have a 96 cavvy, too. Mexcellent.
Wait, I said that in my story. Whoops.
[ May 07, 2005, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Primal Curve ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I, too, had the awesome and unpredictable love of the inside of a Cavalier's heart.
Well, I'm tickled pink. Even if you didn't know that UVA's mascot is the Cavalier.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Thought I'd ressurect this thread to talk about the three-weekend-long auto repair HELL-HOLE that is my life.
Work done in the past few weeks: 1994 Chevy Astro Conversion Replace front disc rotors which involves cleaning and reinstalling the front wheel bearings and torquing to specs Replace front disc pads Replace rear drum shoes and springs
1996 Chevy Cavalier Replace warped front disc rotors (easy if you used antisieze when you last reassembled your front end) Replace Alternator Replace Battery Oil/Filter Change Clean and Recharge Air Filter
Still having some weird voltage problems. Probably need to uninstall new alternator and clean all of the grounding points.
1994 Nissan Maxima Replaced Front Disc Pads Replaces Rear Drum Shoes and Springs Soon will be replacing starter solenoid or whole starter.
Yay n' Stuff
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
There is a god in this universe, and he hates my guts.
My wife's right front CV Boot is torn.
I have all manner of four-letter words for this, but none of them are appropriate for this forum.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Wow. I admire your skillz. Best I can do is trust my mechanic not to take advantage of me. I just had to retire my beloved '93 Corolla because the price of repairs to keep it going was beyond reason for a car of its vintage.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I admire your skillz as well. I mean, I've done tune ups, changed axles & cv boots & fuel filters, but nothing like what you're talking about. I'm just a junior mint compared to you.
At least I know enough about cars that the mechanics who tried to screw me got a talking to. In language they understood. So they knew that I knew. Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Hey, PC. Chet's car has been doing a lot of the whir, whir noise you mention, but not a lot of the turning over part. Does that sound like a fuel pump issue?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote: In language they understood.
Sinhalese or Tamil?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Hah. You're funny.
I once had a mechanic, who did a "Free 300 Point Check" on my car advise something like $7000 in repairs. On a car worth half that. Probably half the recommended repairs had been done - either by myself or a close friend or relative - during the week preceding that check. "No, the tires don't need replacing. No, they're not worn and bald. Any idiot with eyes can see they're fine. And this idiot replaced them last Tuesday."
When the mechanic tried to tell me that the person who claimed to do the tune up I said was done was lying to me and really, the spark plugs are black from carbon residue, the fan belt really does need replacing, and all the rest of that work really does need doing, when I'm the person who did that work with brand new parts... Well, it tends to be really not pretty. And it tends to result in me telling the cheating shyster in a really loud voice so other customers can hear that they better clean up their act and stop trying to swindle people. In great detail. Have I mentioned I have a really loud voice? Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: Hey, PC. Chet's car has been doing a lot of the whir, whir noise you mention, but not a lot of the turning over part. Does that sound like a fuel pump issue?
Possibly, but let me ask you some questions first. Does the engine spin while the car is trying to turn over? When you turn the key to the ON position (not starting it yet) do you hear the whir? Does it sound like the motor is catching at all?
I could think up some more, but I'm a wee tired at the mo'. Answer those in detail and I'll see what I can come up with.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: Hey, PC. Chet's car has been doing a lot of the whir, whir noise you mention, but not a lot of the turning over part. Does that sound like a fuel pump issue?
Your battery could be dead, but a simple check of something electrical in the car should clear that up.
If you definitely have power, or your car can't be jumped it could be the starter. I pulled into a chevron to fill up and my car just would not start again. I already created a thread that outlines the nightmare that ensued but lets just say I owe my parents around 4 thousand dollars now and my car is still turning on the "I need a fix" light.
A broken starter at the wrong place at the wrong time and in the wrong hands can be devastating.
Glad you got your car fixed PC! And at such a reduced price! Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
It can't be the battery because it will start eventually. It cranks a lot, eventaully starts and stalls out. After 5-10 minutes of that, it eventually gets going.
I don't know about the rest of it. I'll ask Chet this afternoon. Thanks for the ideas!
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Primal - - my question is:
Do you have a garage you get to do all this work on these cars in? Or are you having to lie out on the cold, hard ground?
If the latter, you have even MORE of my admiration than I already have for you and your abilities.....
FG
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: It can't be the battery because it will start eventually. It cranks a lot, eventaully starts and stalls out. After 5-10 minutes of that, it eventually gets going.
I don't know about the rest of it. I'll ask Chet this afternoon. Thanks for the ideas!
That could be a fuel issue, but it could also be spark as well. Autozone will do a load test on your battery and alternator for free. You should wheel your car over there and see what they say. How old are your spark plugs?
Checking the fuel system is a bit harder. How much gas do you keep in your tank on average (please be honest)? Does it get significantly cold where you live? Enough to freeze water overnight? Have you ever used products such as Heet in your gas tank?
Honestly, the guys at Autozone are pretty knowledgable (not as much as a certified mechanic, but they see a lot of these issues all the time). They may be able to help you isolate the problem. Otherwise, call a mechanic. A lot of times they're pretty busy and would rather just help you fix the problem yourself rather than pile up more work (there's no shortage of auto repair in our car-centric world). There's only so much I can do without sitting in your car and turning the key myself and then taking a peek under the hood.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: Primal - - my question is:
Do you have a garage you get to do all this work on these cars in? Or are you having to lie out on the cold, hard ground?
If the latter, you have even MORE of my admiration than I already have for you and your abilities.....
FG
I don't believe there's a man alive who would have been able to work on any car outside the weekend before last. The windchill was so low that my fingers were frozen within minutes of being outside. Handling metal tools and car parts? I probably would have lost fingers to frostbite.
Thank all that is Holy that my MIL has a two car garage and a big propane heater. I was able to work in relative comfort and not freeze. I did some work on my car out in the cold last night (trying to isolate my voltage problems in the driveway-- couldn't use the garage because my wife's car is up on jack stands pending arrival of new CV boot at Autozone. It wasn't too cold. I just went inside every 10 minutes to warm up.
BTW: I think the rebuilt alternator I got has a bad regulator (it's internally regulated). I'll have to take that sucker back to where I purchased it and get one from Autozone or something.
Ah well, at least the car runs. It just stalls out every once in awhile.
PS: If I never have to look under another hood again...
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
) I got the bolts loose and, in the process, banged the crap out of my knuckles (thank GOD for tetanus shots). Finally, the bolts were loose, I just had to finish getting them off. For some stupid reason, GM designed those bolts to be really, really long. So there was a lot of metal exposed and rusted. I gave them a few more turns but they stopped loosening- they just sat there and spun. See, the nuts were welded to a sheet of steel. The welds have rusted and broken and the bolts were just spinning on top. I could get a wrench up there, but the rust had caused the nuts to swell so the 15mm wrench that should have fit up there did not and the larger 16mm wrench wass still too big to give me adequate grip to break the rest of the rust along the length of the bolt. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
. I went to him for some advice. He took a look at the bolts and, after much swearing and whistle blowing on his part, he lent me his grinder.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
Me.
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
In great detail.