This is apparently the attitude of the kids in my school. Our history teacher has been discussing the Civil War and American slavery. The other day he showed the kids a video called "Brother Future" about a street kid from today that got sent back to that era. Ever since then the kids have been running around calling each other slaves and saying "you've got slave hands" and things like that. The worst part is that it is the black kids saying it to other black kids. It's all one big joke. I'm disgusted.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Ugh. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Look, they're probably not laughing at slavery at all. They're laughing at what sounds like a stupid movie about slavery. ('Brother Future?' It was really called that?)
Think of how Hollywood comics used to deal with Hitler-- with slapstick and hilarity. These kids are probably doing the same thing. It's juvenile, its probably disrespectful, and annoying-- but teenagers are juvenile, disrespectful, and annoying people. It's how they cope with boring, stagnant, proper society.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"The other day he showed the kids a video called 'Brother Future' about a street kid from today that got sent back to that era."
This was his first mistake, then.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I agree-I've seen videos like that, and I'm afraid the one you're describing sounds frightfully corny and laughable-not because of slavery, but because of its production.
If you want to show a video in a history class about American slavery, you can do better, it sounds to me, than 'Brother Future'
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Here's a sum up of the plot of Brother Future:
quote: Mysteriously plucked from his budding career as a rip-off artist in modern Detroit, T.J. wakes up in the hands of South Carolina patrollers in 1822. Put up on the auction block in his Nikes, he quickly comes face to face with life in the cotton fields. As he makes friends among the slaves on Master Cooper's plantation, T.J. struggles to subdue his insolence, and learns how few rights he has.
A clairvoyant house servant tells T.J. he will eventually return to his own time, but only if he can truly offer help to another. Drawn into a secret slave revolt, the growing love between his friends Josiah and Caroline, and Josiah's desperation to read and write, T.J. learns that the freedom and education he has ignored in Detroit were won by the heartache and sacrifice of his forebears.
It sounds very sincere and . . . I dunno, insipid.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I actually don't even think it's that this particular film was poorly done. They have seen clips from other films as well that were very well done. They just seem to have no respect for that part of their history. I've actually heard kids say, "So what, that was like two hundred years ago. What does that have to do with anything now?" I just think it's sad and a little bit scary that they can feel that way.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
quote:The worst part is that it is the black kids saying it to other black kids.
Why is it worse when black kids do it than when other kids do? Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Why don't you get off your PC high horse and just relax, beatnix.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
Insulting somebody rarely helps them to relax.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I think it's because if you respect yourself, no one can take it from you. Maybe beatnix sees this as not respecting themselves.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by beatnix19: I've actually heard kids say, "So what, that was like two hundred years ago. What does that have to do with anything now?" I just think it's sad and a little bit scary that they can feel that way.
It's normal for their age, though. They also think that 25 year olds are ancient. Perspective on time takes a few more years to develop. Not that teachers shouldn't be trying to convince them otherwise, of course.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: the kids have been running around calling each other slaves and saying "you've got slave hands"
That's a weird mental picture.
Posted by St. Yogi (Member # 5974) on :
My guess is that the phrase "you've got slave hands" was used in the movie, and the kids thought that it was said in an amusing way. I doubt that it has anything to do with disrespecting history.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 619) on :
They need to read Octavia Butler's novel Kindred. Similar concept, but no one will go around talking about "slave hands" after that.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
quote: Why don't you get off your PC high horse and just relax, beatnix.
Lots of comments come to mind here but none of them appropriate. Use your imagination.
The reason I have a problem with this is because I teach in a district that has a nearly 1/2 black population. I have been attacked by parents saying I don't understand their kids cause I'm just a dumb young white kid. So... to see this behavior bothers me, especially knowing the attitudes of parents in our school. It doesn't fit and it just plain bothers me as well as the three black teacher I have on my team. So, it's not about being PC it's about being respectful.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"They just seem to have no respect for that part of their history."
A teacher's job is to show them the history, not to tell them how to feel about it. It is often a surprise to white teachers that black students are as clueless about history as white students. As Dana said, to them it is the past, and the past is boring. (for the most part)
It might be something they don't want to know. They feel uncomfortable, and act like asses. It is the way of the adolescent.
DISCLAIMER: The last sentence was an exxageration. The author of this post has taught adolescent boys for most of her adult life, and holds them in the highest regard.
[ May 12, 2005, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I don't think it's my job to tell them how to feel about it. But I can make sure they aren't offending other kids because I have had students complain. Maybe I am making too much of it but it's very frustrating. We have so many kids that use the race card as an excuse for special treatment or a way to blame others for their behavior. You have no idea how many times I've heard the phrase, "It's just because I'm black." So to have so many kids put so much emphasis on race and then turn around and completely disrespect that very same race they use so willingly to complain or argue is very frustrating. But you're right. I'm just an old hyper man who needs to relax in the eyes of most of the kids I teach. I guess I'll quit complaining. Besides it has caught the attention of our assistant principal who is a 50 something black woman. I have a feeling it's going to die a quick death.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Hey, I have to say, we watched Sarafina in 7th grade, and Roots in 8th, and while both were very powerful and well-done, they were (of course) made fun of in much the same way; one poor pathetic guy who thought he was funny was saying "Kunta Kinte" for years to come. Some kids don't get it. I used to be made fun of a lot because I cried at emotionally powerful things. It's their way of distancing themselves, and there's nothing you can really do but hope they grow out of it.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
"Roots".
And yes, not many kids are able or willing to empathize with a movie.
Wait until they hit the angry teenager phase.
-Trevor
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I don't see the big deal. Maybe it's because, when I went to school, kids were rocking out on the sublime song about date rape. beatnix, either the kids are going to think about it and laugh or think about it and figure out inventive ways kick white people's asses. Do you want that? The kids on the playground are funny. I'm scary.
quote: It's juvenile, its probably disrespectful, and annoying-- but teenagers are juvenile, disrespectful, and annoying people. It's how they cope with boring, stagnant, proper society.
Scott's right, and really, I think Beatnix has a rosy view of the possible alternative reactions.
[ May 11, 2005, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
AndrewR, I was thinking that! One time they showed All is Quiet on the Western front in High school and of course everyone laughed at the scenes were people got blown up. Except me, because I am sensitive like that. Then there was Threads. I don't know why he showed us that movie but it had me scared all year. I kept thinking about nuclear annilation while all the other kids were amused by it. So, I guess it's the way they are. Either they got affected and tried to downplay it or they just don't think about things like slavery. Don't worry about it too much.
Posted by Griffin (Member # 7166) on :
I'm completely disgusted beatnix19. Slavery is the worst part of the USA's history. If it weren't for MLK, and racism would be now like it once was I would be ashamed to be an American. Of course apartheid isn't much better. I'm glad though that the kids can laugh about it. The worst thing they could do is try to bring back the practice of apartheid.
I wonder what those kids would do if they knew that the idea of slavery originated in Africa and Europeans bought the people to use for labor and make profit? Still worse read this Slavery in Niger .
[ May 12, 2005, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Griffin ]
Posted by Griffin (Member # 7166) on :
Not disgusted with you beatnix19, but your class. Thanks ketchupqueen
[ May 12, 2005, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Griffin ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Discussed or disgusted? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: It is often a surprise to white teachers that black students are as clueless about history as white students.
Besides, in the situation described here -- a bunch of black students are shown a movie in which a Detroit wannabe gang-banger gets sent back in time to learn moral lessons about how bad slavery was, and how good they have it today, and how they're pissing away the privileges their ancestors would've (and did) died to have -- I'd be downright offended if I were in their shoes. It's not only a lecture, it's a patronizing lecture.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Irami...when I think of you, a lot of things come to mind....some good, some not...
Scary isn't one of them.
Kwea
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: They need to read Octavia Butler's novel Kindred. Similar concept, but no one will go around talking about "slave hands" after that.
Just read that this past weekend. Great book!
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:You have no idea how many times I've heard the phrase, "It's just because I'm black." So to have so many kids put so much emphasis on race and then turn around and completely disrespect that very same race they use so willingly to complain or argue is very frustrating.
I know you already said it isn't your job to tell them how to feel about it, but maybe you can point out this discrepency when (and if) the opportunity arises? Sometimes we just don't recognize such cognitive dissonance in ourselves--especially when we are young. They may use the excuse because they see others doing it, yet fail to realize the connection to history.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
I agree with Tom. Come on, a black street kid? That's pretty stereotypical. Sort of like lumping all of today's young black people into a group called "ignorant".
I don't think the kids necessarily picked up on that, though. It's just a normal reaction to any educational video shown in school. Nobody really wants to seem profoundly moved by something shown by a teacher. It's just not done, at least not in my school. That doesn't mean that the kids took away nothing, however.
(And I also doubt that the majority of the kids were reacting the way beatnix mentioned, just the usual crowd.)
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
"They feel uncomfortable, and act like asses. It is the way of the adolescent."
I'd like to breifly butt in on this discussion to stand up for my kind. Not all of us adolescents act like asses when uncomfortable, and in fact I would say that quite a lot of "mature adults" act like asses when uncomfortable.
(but, aside from that, ha funny!)
As for the original topic, my school has held a bunch of meetings to discuss when and how it is appropriate to intervene in situations like this one, and I *still* don't have an answer, so I'll just go back to following this thread now.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Thanks Leah. It's good to remind everyone that inappropriate responses to discomfort are not unique to our youth. As we grow older, all of us learn more coping strategies and most of us also tend toward behaviors that approximate those of the people we hang around with. For people who live in adult society, that means acting "like an adult" most of the time. Sad but true.
I've known plenty of chronological adults who never get to the point of inhibiting the inappropriate behaviors and never really seek out an adult life among adults.
I've known a few adolescents who have grown up earlier than their peers and live in the adult realm already.
I've been holding back saying anything, but really, all this group of kids needs is for one of them to point out what jerks they're being and the nonsense would stop. At least that's how it worked among my circle of friends. Someone would make a joke, we'd all laugh, and then someone with a bit more sense or sensitivity would point out the cruelty or unthinking nature of our jest and we'd all think about it.
Sure, sometimes the giddyness didn't die right away, but it did end.
What other socialization process is there? Unless these kids parents, aunts uncles, and grandparents hear them and slap some sense into them (figuratively of course), the socialization "moment" has got to come from peers or teachers, or maybe employers. It really sounds like this could be something that a teacher could help them understand, but it'd probably be a more powerful lesson if another person their age said "knock it off."
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Someone would make a joke, we'd all laugh, and then someone with a bit more sense or sensitivity would point out the cruelty or unthinking nature of our jest and we'd all think about it.
. . . and then, we'd give that person a swirlie. Pretentious jerk-wad.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
beatnix19, How old are these kids? I don't think you said. I was assuming middle school.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I'm teach 8th grade. I teach in a very urban school district. Lot's of wanna be gangsters and thugs. The "rap" attitude or culture or what have you is the overwhelming attitude at my school. Don't get me wrong. I really like working in this school and I enjoy my kids. Lot's of very cool personalities.
quote: Unless these kids parents, aunts uncles, and grandparents hear them and slap some sense into them (figuratively of course), the socialization "moment" has got to come from peers or teachers, or maybe employers.
I agree completely and this is what I think is most disturbing to me. Is their no sense of culture and history in these kids homes? I understand kids will be kids but that is no excuse to be ingnorant to a part of one's own history and culture. I asked one of my kids what they thought their grandmother would say if they called her a slave. They responded with " I don't know." Well I do. I know that generation of people. They lived through the civil rights movement or the tail end of it and I know excatly how they would respond. And I have to say that the slapping of sense would doubtfully be figurative.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Did you follow their "I don't know" with, "Well, why don't you ask her?" This would be a good place for an interjection of grandparent wisdom.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Well... in my own sarcastic way I suppose I have. I beleive I have replied to a student or two that they should definately go home and find out what their parents/grandparents have to say about the funny joke they have been telling at school.
Although I have kind of flipped about this whole thing here at Hatrack I actually haven't made that big of a deal out of it at school. I've spoken to individual students about stopping out of respect for some of the black teachers here and the students who are more sensitive to the matter. And as I mentioned earlier, our assistant principal has taken interest in the matter and spoken with a number of kids about it. So... what ever I guess.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
beatnix, you don't have your own class yet, right?
If you do, I would sit them all down, put it on the table, and discuss it. Try not to put any judgement out there at all. Let the kids who are offended say why, and ask the kids who aren't if they understand that their jokes are hurtful to others, and not appropriate for school. It seems like an obvious thing to do, but not many teachers sit down and talk to eighth graders.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
About sarcasm. A good friend of mine, and a fantastic teacher, went to Mexico to teach for a year. She was horrified that the language barrier had cut out her prime behavior management tool with the eighth graders: biting sarcasm. I know, it sounds so evil, but if they know you can zing them better than they can zing you, things will go much better. All's fair in love, war, and the eighth grade classroom.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I have my own classroom. And I definately use humor and sarcasm, perhaps too often. I actually have a very good relationship with most of the kids I teach. However, and I need to stress this again, I teach in a very urban school. This is why I had such a problem with it in my own head. I have handled in a very appropraite manner, at least in my opinion, in the classroom.
I really wasn't looking for any advice on how to handle the situation, I just wanted to express my amazement to the people here at something I was shocked to hear. I guess you need to know these kids. I have had the fact that I am a young white male used a number of times in my 5 years here as a complaint or critisism. Being black is a very big deal to the people in my community. This is why I was amazed to see all of the comments in the classroom as some kind of joke. I really was making more of a social comment than anything else. I am saddened for my kids that they have not recieved any type of respect for that aspect of their culture.
I haven't and won't do much about it in the classroom other than to encourage them to find other ways to humor themselves. Let me put an official close to this discussion and just leave it where it is. The kids made some carless comments, I was shocked and saddened by them but apparently they are just kids and that's what they do so I should chill out and not hold any higher expectation of them. I mean that is what they need more of, another person telling them they are just ignorant black kids that don't need to think and feel anything because they won't amount to anything anyways. Right?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Um, if you are offended by anything I wrote, I am really sorry.
How you could interpret what I said as you not holding high expectations of black students in an inner city school? Did you? If so, I am really confused.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You asked, so that means that the conversation isn't really closed.
What you should do is remember that kids behave like this in all free, affluent societies. (Even the American ghettos count) It's not right-- no one's justifying the behavior-- but I think the gist of the advice here is that this type of thing is normal.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:I am saddened for my kids that they have not recieved any type of respect for that aspect of their culture.
It is possible to make fun of something and still have respect for it.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
The thing is, what do these kids think is their culture?
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:The thing is, what do these kids think is their culture?
That's a fine place to start, but then, you have to understand that your answer to the question of what the kid's culture is is likely at least as incorrect or inadequate as the kids' answer.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Ok, just frustrated today in general as well, so any snarky remarks may be due to that more than an actual frustration with this topic. My last post was more of a general frustration with some of the comments about the slave thing and not a direct result of your post Elizabeth. I understand you are just speakign with some experience behind your words. I appreciate that.
I guess some of the appathy in peoples post reflected the appathy I see in some of my kids and it all just ticks me off. I really don't think it too much to want these kids to care. they should care and as it has been pointed out there are indeed adolesents that do care. Is it too much for me to want the same out of my students?
Anyways it is no longer an issue. Our assistant principal just gave a very, oh I don't know, emotional, speach to the kids about her feelings on the entire subject. She voiced the opinions I have only spoken here but have held in my mind since this became an issue.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
So...it'll be interesting to see if that stops the jokes.
I think you did a good thing by planting that seed of "what would your grandmother think?" Get them thinking beyond the jokes.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I'm really glad she did that, Beatnix, and I hope she gets through.
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Some kids don't get it. I used to be made fun of a lot because I cried at emotionally powerful things. It's their way of distancing themselves, and there's nothing you can really do but hope they grow out of it.
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