If they were trying to hide Luke and Leia, why did Luke go around with the Skywalker name? Wouldn't that be a red flag to Darth Vader and his spies/minions?
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
Also, how did Luke find out Leia was his sister? (It's been so long since I saw it, I can't remember.)
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
I had the same problem with Luke. Why didn't he take the name of the people who adopted him, like leia did. As for how Luke discovered how Leia was his sister he did a DNA test. Actually the Force told him.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
1,000's of Skywalkers in the Galaxy. Owen only had so much of a clue of what was really going on
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Uh, Luke already had the name of the people who adopted him. He was adopted by his aunt and uncle Skywalker. His uncle was Anakin's half brother, I believe.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Yoda and Obi Wan know about Leia, so that's how Luke found out.
To answer your question: Lucas is stupid?
Or maybe they wanted Luke to eventually be found. Maybe they knew that Darth Vader was going to discover him anyway (I don't remember him being surprised that Luke was his son--though you'd think he would be surprised with how ep III ended.)
Maybe they *didn't* want Leia to be found, though. She was the "secret weapon" and Luke was the full on assault. Luke was the distraction to keep Vader away from Leia.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Ooo, or KarlEd's answer makes a whole heckuvalotta sense.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Because Owen was the son of Anakin's mother. Owen's last name was Lars. I think
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Um, no. Owen's father was Cliegg Lars, making his son and daughter-in-law Owen and Beru Lars. Not Skywalker.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
quote:Originally posted by KarlEd: Uh, Luke already had the name of the people who adopted him. He was adopted by his aunt and uncle Skywalker. His uncle was Anakin's half brother, I believe.
They didn't have the Skywalker name. They were "Owen and Beru Lars", I believe.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Carrie!!!! [/Luke]
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Wow... Carrie and I agree again. Sweet.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Well, strike that theory.
I guess you are left with the two I provided. Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Not really, since his Uncle Owen was named Owen Lars, after his father.
I think it's simply that he thought the baby had died with Padme. Notice how she looked way more pregnant dead than she had when she was living?
Then, in ep IV, Vader comes in contact with Skywalker, and the opening crawl of EPV tells how he has become obsessed with finding Luke.
So he didn't know he had a living son, and when he found out, he went out of his way to find him.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
OB1 handed them a baby said it’s Anakin’s kid Luke. So Owen assumed the kid’s name was Skywalker. He obviously didn’t adopt him as his own since he had Luke call them aunt and uncle. Might not of thought much of Anakin after the whole thing with their mother.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
And how did Mark Hamill get so ugly? He started out cute in EP4, but he was ugly by the end of EP6.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Oh, and Owen introduces himself to Anakin in Ep II as "your stepbrother" which means he wasn't Shmi's son, either.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
OK, I stand corrected. However changing his name wouldn't have satisfied the spirit of the original objection. The family that took Luke in was family of Anakin's mother and was the same family that Anakin himself stayed with when he went on his "kill the sandpeople" rampage in episode II. If Darth Vader were really looking for his kid, he'd have been relatively easy to find. If I had to come up with a plausible explanation I'd say that Vader probably believed the children died within their mother and didn't realize Luke existed until he showed up on the Death Star in Episode IV. It wasn't until he (Luke) began being exposed to the ways of the force that he was able to cause enough of a ripple that Vader felt it and explored it enough to figure out who Luke really was. YMMV
[edit: Or what Olivetta said. ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
He was in a very bad accident - motorcycle, I think.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Obviously, Googleing is a Light Side skill. They are the White Pages, not the Dark Pages.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
That makes sense. (KarlEd's explaination)
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Mark Hamil smashed his face in a car accident between Ep IV and ep V
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
BTW, Karl's last post represents exactly what I always just assumed was the case. I never thought much about it because it made so much sense to me.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
Ouch. Well, that explains it then. That's kinda sad.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
From what I heard, Mark Hamill was in an accident between EpIV and V. So they jazzed up (or added) the Wampa monster scene to explain the scars. His face is not so smooth in Empire (V).
As for the Skywalker name, yeah, I chalk that up to GLs not quite thinking that one through.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I think Obi-Wan wanted Vader obsessing about Luke once he was powerful enough to be noticed. And the name helped in that regard.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Realistically, it doesn't make any sense to have Luke keep his name. If he was supposed to be hiding, the simplest thing to do would be to change his last name to Lars and pretend that he was Owen and Beru's biological son. After all, Vader actually held Leia prisoner and had no idea who she was. If her name had been Leia Skywalker, he probably would have investigated the matter. So a simple name change may have offered Luke some protection. But it is just a movie, and doing that would have made things more confusing for the whole, "I am your father" revelation.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
Olivetta:
He introduces himself as Luke's Half-Brother, not Step-Brother.
Everyone:
Can't we jsut own it all up to Lucas making a writing mistake? I'm sure he wasn't planning on making the prequels when he first started Ep V.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
I watched the dang movie last night (kids are on a real Star Wars jag right now). I know what he said.
I re-played the scen on my dvd to be sure.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
You're mistaken, Little_Doctor. Owen is never introduced as Anakin's (I assume you mean Anakin and not Luke) half-brother. He was the son of Cliegg (sp?) Lars and his first wife. When Anakin returns to Tatooine in Eps. II, Owen says, "...I guess that makes you my step-brother.
If you want to talk about an actual screw-up, the Return of the Jedi novelization from 1983 says that Owen was Obi-wan's brother. Lucas has obviously decided not to stick with that.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Plus, ep II was ten years after ep I, so Owen was real big for nine-year-old.
Yeah, i had heard about the Owen/Obi-Wan brother thing. That's just weird.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
I remember hearing that he was related to Obi-Wan, and I wondered what happened to that.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
What I'd like to know is why Obi-Wan says "Your father wanted you to have this" when he gives Luke the lightsabre in IV. I can't remember Anakin ever referring to that in the prequels.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
He's manipulating the truth. In a sense, assuming Anakin knew his son, he'd want him to follow in his footsteps, either when he was good or even as a Sith.
It's true, "from a certain point of view."
Interesting, that line, since chronologically, Palpatine is the source of that observation. Looks like Obi-Wan had broken out of the Jedi mindset by ROTJ and recognized the truth of that.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Another funny continuity slip-up is in the "A New Hope" novel, which was supposedly written by Lucas himself, but was actually ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster. It claims that Luke was 18 in ANH, while Leia is 16! Twins with different ages... Not to mention the fact that we now know that they were both 19 in ANH.
As for, "your father wanted you to have this". Do you think that Luke would have trusted him if he had said, "I took this from your father as I left him limb-less and burning to death"? Yeah, it's just manipulation. But Obi-wan probably figures that Anakin would have been proud to have his son carry his lightsaber if he had remained good.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
I think he just said it. Maybe because Anikin would have wanted him to have it, even if Darth Vader didn't. (If that makes any sense.)
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Well, Old Ben is definitely a master of the careful omission and not a truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth kinda guy. It could have been more like "Your father would have wanted you to have this" If he hadn't gone all homicidal and evil and stuff. Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Plus, didn't Foster write the "Splinter in the Mind's Eye" novel that came between IV and V? I heard it had some squicky romance between Luke an Leia, much more than the kiss in V.
I guess the novelizations aren't worth much, expecially considering your other example of Obi-Wan's brother, Lars. There's also the part in ROTJ (novel) where Anakin, as he takes the mask off for Luke, remembers his wife. I think there were a few contradictions, there, at least by ommission.
That's what happens with an 19 year gap between trilogies. Understandable.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Yeah, Foster did write "Splinter in the Mind's Eye" I haven't read it, but I have heard that it has some Luke/Leia romance, and a Vader/Luke fight prior to ESB.
The novelizations aren't all bad though. In fact, they contain some of the earliest references to things which occur in the prequels. The prologue in ANH talks about Palpatine's rise to power and the corruption of the Republic. I think that the RotJ novel was the first place it was mentioned that Obi-wan and Anakin's duel took place over lava, and that Anakin received most of his injuries from burns. And Palpatine even mentions having known (or at least known of) Yoda, and asks Luke if he was the one who completed Luke's training.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Yeah, I do remember that, especially Palpatine's mention of Yoda. For a story that would expanded on (and somethimes contradicted) nearly two decades later it wasn't bad at all.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
[ ]Proven wrong again![/ ]
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
The ROTJ novel was how JaneX and I knew what was going to happen in that lava pit. We were clinging to each other and cringing during the whole scene.
We enjoyed reading the novelizations of Ep IV, V and VI, but the guy who wrote ROTJ was really in love with his own prose. He goes a bit overboard. Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I think the simple explanation for Luke not changing his last name was that it was his last name first.
He was Skywalker before Vader was I don't think Lucas knew that Vader was Luke's father until he was writing ep. VI. It was unfortunate, but when you don't fully explore the backstory of your characters, stuff like this happens. So Vader didn't have the same last name, until he did, and then it was too late to change it.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Yeah. I seem to remember that he tried to wax poetic when Vader's mask came off. Something about water on lips and fields of flowers. Was kind of bad. (Wow, I can't believe I remember that.)
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
There aren't really many satisfactory answers to these questions. Just 'Vader wouldn't come looking' doesn't really suffice-if they'd wanted Luke to remain hidden, would they have left that to chance? You don't hide by plopping down on your father's homeworld, near his hometown, with people he's spent time with, while still using his name.
The explanation given in the EU (which can be thrown out at Lucas's whim) is that possibly Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted Vader to come looking for his son. Especially when Luke was going to apply to the military Academy, did Obi-Wan and Yoda imagine that name would go unnoticed?
If, however, Vader's spies and agents had noticed that name, he might have come looking entirely on his own, without the Emperor being involved at all. This is in fact close to what happened-Vader tried to seduce Luke to the Dark side and have them both betray Palpatine. In that situation, Obi-Wan could've confronted Vader again.
Posted by Lord Solar Macharius (Member # 7775) on :
El JT de Spang speaks the truth. During Episode IV vader was in fact not Luke's father. IIRC, the idea for this came from writer Lawrence Kasdan.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
In 1977 would you have gone to see some silly space opera with a hero named "Luke Lars"?
That is assuming you are an old fogey like me who was alive in 1977.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Sources for that?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
<---Was present at the original showing of Star Wars. Was 4 years old. Did not know much of what was going on.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
That's pretty cool.
(I wasn't even born yet.)
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Sorry, Little_Doctor. That came off a bit nasty, but that wasn't how I meant it.
I'm just getting paybacks for driving my mother crazy with Star Wars stuff when I was a kid.
Though, honestly, I don't think I deserve repeat veiwings of the prequels - that's just harsh.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think giving him the Skywalker name was intentional. If they had wanted to keep him hidden with just a name, Owen wouldn't have spent so much time holding him on Tatooine, he would have branded him a Lars and then let him do what he wanted without worrying.
That's why I think they place so much emphasis on holding Luke on Tatooine, against his wished to go out and adventure. I'm betting Obi-Wan and Owen were in communication behind the scenes for awhile, though not in the end. But I think it was intentional for many reasons. To give him a sense of pride in who he is. He isn't just some moisture farmer, his father was once a great starpilot and laaaaa.
If he had gotten to Obi-Wan's hut and Obi-Wan told Luke Lars that he was destined for something greater, he would have laughed him off and driven home, much as he did anyway. He needed that sense of knowing he was greater, and that some greater legacy awaited him.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 8107) on :
Dan Raven: How many times. (I stopped counting at 54). It was a game when I was in middle school and high school...who could see it the most times. (I have some weekends where I was so nausiated with the movie I thought I'd throw up if I saw it again, but then I watched it again, just to rack up the count.)
Vader was too busy with his career (consolidating the empire, building a death star, learning the ways of the Sith) to have time for his kids.
here's a new question for you:
Obi-Wan: If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Later: use the force, Luke.
Luke fires the proton torpedos and they take a very sharp turn into the exhaust port. Does Obi-wan get credit for the assist? In other words, did Obi-Wan push the proton torpedos home?
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I think Luke Lars sounds so funny. I think it would make a cute alternate screen name.
Posted by Haloed Silhouette (Member # 8062) on :
Why not Luke Mars?
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I can't even think of a adequate reponse to that.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Think of the merchandising.
Luke Mars Bars!
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
By the way, when is Luke's last name actually mentioned for the first time?
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
Does Vader ever know Luke's last name in ANH? And if Vader were looking for Luke, he would look under "Lars" right after not finding him under "Skywalker".
And it may be that Luke wanted to go by Skywalker once he got old enough to know the Lars' weren't his real parents. The Lars might have figured that if Vader didn't show up yet, it might be okay to let him go with it. And Skywalker might have been a pretty common name. Back then.
But I haven't seen Episode III. From the amount of Luke/Leia kissing in ESB, I'd say Leia being the sister was not decided until ROTJ was being written. I mean, she just kisses him to teach Solo in the beginning, but when they retrieve him from the cloud dump, she kisses him again.
I actually thought the closing visual of ESB, Luke with his arm around her and the two droids, reminded me of the wedding scene in Ep II. Lucas is a good director, even if he suffers from lack of boundaries.
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
Okay, I'm watching this now and when Luke tells Owen that R2 claims to be Obi Wans' property, Owen says Old Ben Kenobi is an old wizard who a) doesn't probably exist anymore and b) died about the same time as "your father". Luke says "he knew my father?"
There is a lot of interaction between Vader and Leia in this movie, and she seems to know him well, or his tricks.
Also Vader makes no notice of being at his home planet. It is a movie, and I haven't read the novelizations so who knows if he thinks anything of it.
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
Given that the last information was the Ben Kenobi was dead, why is Luke glad to see him on waking from getting beat up by the sandpeople? "Am I dead?" would seem to be the appropriate question. I'll grant that maybe the legends of Ben Kenobi would have been the reason Luke recognized him. Oh, okay it looks like Luke was assuming Ben and Obi Wan were different. His regard for R2 is curious.
I also get the sense that Luke's dreams of his father were from Beru.
Posted by Kamisaki (Member # 6309) on :
quote:Originally posted by mothertree:
But I haven't seen Episode III. From the amount of Luke/Leia kissing in ESB, I'd say Leia being the sister was not decided until ROTJ was being written. I mean, she just kisses him to teach Solo in the beginning, but when they retrieve him from the cloud dump, she kisses him again.
It always seemed to me that she was kissing him on the cheek that time, not like a romantic kiss. Besides, by then she had already admitted that she loved Han, why would she cheat on him so quickly with Luke?
Edit: not that I'm saying you're wrong about them not deciding on it until ROTJ, that could very well be the case, but even assuming that, it doesn't make any sense within the context of the movie to have Leia fall in love with Luke.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
quote:Originally posted by mothertree: Given that the last information was the Ben Kenobi was dead, why is Luke glad to see him on waking from getting beat up by the sandpeople? "Am I dead?" would seem to be the appropriate question. I'll grant that maybe the legends of Ben Kenobi would have been the reason Luke recognized him. Oh, okay it looks like Luke was assuming Ben and Obi Wan were different. His regard for R2 is curious.
At that moment, Luke had no clue that Obi-Wan and Ben Kenobi were the same person. At the very best, he thought that perhaps they were releated in some way. He knew Ben was alive. It was just Obi-Wan he heard was "probably" dead.
I would also think that Vader probably doesn't think anything about being at his home planet. At the time of ANH, he's considering the Anakin part of him dead. Even if he did think something of being at Tatooine, he certainly wouldn't show it. Anakin doesn't start to reawaken until he meets Luke and realizes his child is alive.
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
No, it's a kissy kiss. It may be that she's in the vicinity of his face and he kisses her. She takes off and he's still puckering. It's pretty funny. I also think one of the funniest scenes in ANH is when Luke and Solo are dressed as Storm troopers and they are waiting by the elevator. Luke bounces on his heels and Solo gives that "should we hold the door for you" gesture to some soldier passing by.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think the first time you hear his name is when he says "I'm Luke Skywalker I'm here to rescue you"
That's the first time I remember hearing it.
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
But he doesn't say that to Vader. If he did, that would be the funniest part of the movie. I think Obi wan mentions that his father was anakin skywalker.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Yeah, the first time we ever hear the name Anakin Skywalker is in ROTJ, when Obi-Wan is explaining to Luke (on Dagobah, just after Yoda has passed) how what he told him about his father being killed by Darth Vader was "true, from a certain point of view".
And I caught another major contradiction (to go with the Leia- I remember my mother- one.)
Ben told Luke (just after he rescues Luke from the Sand People in IV) that his Uncle Owen 'didn't hold with his father's ideals. He thought he should have stayed home and not gotten involved.'
Actually, this line had led me to expect that in EpIII, we'd see Anakin on Tatooine, having been kicked out the order for marrying. After a number of years living there with Padme (in the vicinity of Owen) Obi-Wan would show up. The war is going badly and they need all the help they could get, even a former Jedi. So, after much soul searching, Anakin follows Obi-Wan on the 'damn fool crusade' and subsequent events eventually lead to a fall to the dark side. Or something like that, but taking into account Obi-Wan's statements.
Unless Obi-Wan is lying, which- considering that the truth is not even close to that account- not with any amount of 'massaging' the account- just doesn't add up.
I still like what EpIII did (especially Palpatine's seduction), but those two contradictions (partially understandable) bug me. Not huge (and he can fix the first in an extended DVD).
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Of COURSE Obi-Wan was lying: He was talking to Luke! Everyone lies to Luke. It's one of the major themes of the OT. The best part is when Luke's trying to leave Dagobah in ESB, Yoda and Obi-wan make a bunch of "predictions" about what will happen if he leaves, all of which are total BS.
After seeing ep 3, I realized there was a lot of lying to Anakin in the prequels, too. I now suspect that the name "Skywalker" actually translates as "Gullible Shmuck"
And just for the record, I love Star Wars. Of course there's plot holes. Of course there's bad acting. There always has been: It's Star Wars!
--Enigmatic (wants a lightsaber)
Posted by Fusiachi (Member # 7376) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: If you want to talk about an actual screw-up, the Return of the Jedi novelization from 1983 says that Owen was Obi-wan's brother. Lucas has obviously decided not to stick with that.
Well, half the fun in the SW fanverse is justifying every last screw-up Lucas made. In this case, Obi-Wan did say "You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you." Or something like that. So, if Anakin and Owen are step brothers, then by some strech you could almost consider Obi-Wan to be Owen's brother, of a sort.
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