Having some fractions issues. I’m not sure how this is working with the auto replace, but the fractions don’t seem to be consistent. Put in 1/3 and 1/5 and it doesn’t convert it smaller. But ½ ¼ ¾ all do. Anyone know how to get all the fractions to go small?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
What, there can be only one? This isn't Highlander, dude. . . Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
You can't. 1/2, 1/4, and 3/4 are all single characters (really, single glyphs) in the font, that's why they "go small". Word recognizes that what you're typing corresponds to one of them, then substitutes that glyph instead of the individual characters you typed, sort of like how ligatures work.
Without those precreated versions, the fractions won't "go small" because there's nothing to tell Word how they should look when small.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
There are special characters for 1/2, 1/4 and 3/4 and automatic conversion rules for them. As far as I know you can't make any other fractions look like that.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I wanted to type out some simple algebraic equations once...and I found that MS Word couldn't handle it. MS has an add-in you can buy for Much Money to do algebraic equations. I finally used underline and two lines.
I'd suggest that you turn off the auto replace if you want consistency. Go for big.
-Katarain
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Wow… how strange. Would have thought that would be an easy one to convert….. Guess I understand how they’re doing it. Just never realized this and am a bit stumped. Thanks.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
The way to do fancy equations is to use LaTeX to generate them, then insert the graphic in word . Free, and works better than MS's equation editor (though it does have more of a learning curve).
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Fugu's oblique mention of the Equation Editor is your solution, by the way. If you're going to type equations into Word -- or any Office product -- that's the way to do it.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
So where can one get this Free LaTex Equation Editor? I’m not finding it on download.com and seems to be charged other places.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The Equation Editor in Word will work perfectly well - no need to use LaTeX.
I got fast enough with it that I could take notes in it in statistics class. OK, it was statistics for law students, but I could still type formulas in real time.
Go to the Insert menu, choose Object, and then select Microsoft Equation from the list. If you're going to be doing this a lot, you can add a toolbar button for the equation editor and give it a shortcut key.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
No, no, LaTeX is a typesetting system specifically developed for use with equations, among other things. One can type equations at full typing speed once you know how it works (you have to type in a simple markup, which is then processed to create postscript or pdf).
For simple equations, word's equation editor is certainly sufficient. For complex ones, or lots being entered quickly, and certain corner cases (which may or may not come up, depending on what sort of equations you're entering), its not. You can find lots of stuff on it through google: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=latex&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 (just add "tutorial" and you'll get beginner info), and the windows version is here: http://www.miktex.org/ Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I'm here dude.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Fugu just wants to expose more people to his misery. LaTeX is more powerful, but it's also a complete pain in the butt. Instead of learning what's essentially a markup language for those rare times when you need to type an equation, just use the Equation Editor built into Microsoft Office.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Dang Dag, I think that might work for this job. It's for a paper that has some fractions in it, so other stuff could be overkill. Thank you all very much.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
s'not a complete pain in the butt, its just a mildly different environment
High learning curve doesn't mean that once you've learned it its not a breeze .
Of course if you just have a rare equation you don't need LaTeX, as I said from the beginning "The way to do fancy equations . . ."
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
simple fractions ≠ fancy equations
How's that for math?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Note the wink from my response, oh observant one Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Just giving you a hard time. Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
*pies Jon Boy*
*and his little dog, too*
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Mmm . . . key lime!
Good thing I don't have a little dog.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I use equation editor all the time (and I have placed a button for it on the toolbar). I find it perfectly easy to do, and I have yet to have a problem with it. (I'm a math teacher, by the way; I'm not sure what math application you would find it insufficient for.) Frankly, I recommend the free Equation Editor that comes with MS Word over MathType, which is the version Katarain was apparently referring to. I have a colleague who swears by MathType, but I found it to be much buggier (though admittedly more comprehensive) than the free version. (And once you download MathType, it is extremely difficult to ever get Equation Editor back again.)
-o-
I had to use TeX and LaTex when I worked at ORNL, because this was all they used for document preparation. Granted, it's been a dozen years, and they may have come a long way, but . . . *ugh* I would not recommend that particular form of masochism.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Your little dog was a metaphor and not meant literally
The equation editor is insufficient for many complex math equations such as one runs into in higher level math courses.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Icky has a degree in math - could you give an example, Fugu?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Your little dog was a metaphor and not meant literally
Your mom is a metaphor.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Creating just the full equation (with expressions for the mean and variances written out) for the correlation of two random variables takes me a few minutes in equation editor; I can do it in well under a minute using LaTeX.
And that's a relatively simple equation.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
And yes, JB, she is.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I think 1/3 might be in your character map.
Go to Start | Programs | Accessories | System Tools | Character Map. You probably didn't need that, but I didn't know it existed until about a year ago, so I didn't want to take it for granted that you did.
Edit: It is, along with 2/3, 1/8, 3/8, 5/8, and 7/8.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yes, there are unicode code points for those glyphs, among others, but many fonts don't have them.
You can almost always find a font that has all of them and is close enough, though.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Now that you've found ways to do fractions and other such things, go and turn off autoformatting. It's of the devil.
Posted by Haloed Silhouette (Member # 8062) on :
quote: Instead of learning what's essentially a markup language for those rare times when you need to type an equation, just use the Equation Editor built into Microsoft Office.
Or download/buy MathType. I use a cracked version, and it's far better than EE. You don't have to crack it, you have a "lite" version of it too.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Noooo![/vader]
Math Type is buggy and annoying!
[pssst . . . do you read the whole thread?]
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Open Office has a Math tool built into it that I find similar but superior to MathType. You could do much worse than downloading it and giving it a try. I also love the word auto-completion.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Then leave it on. But I hate the rest of autoformatting. The automatic bulleted or numbered lists, where it's a pain in the neck to change the formatting of the numbers because you can't "reach" them the normal way. I hate having things I typed automatically replaced by other things without my okay (like teh for the). And I hate not being able to type "Dear ___,<enter>" without that stupid paper clip coming up.
It is possible to pick and choose what to leave on. I do prefer, for instance, to have my straight quotes replaced with smart quotes.
Now, autocomplete in MS Excel is a bigger problem, because if you type something that is less than the full length of some previously used string, and then hit enter, you might never realize that Excel has replaced it with something else. For instance, a long time ago, I use to use Excel with Word to send individualized form letters to my students' parents at various points throughout the year, telling them how their children were performing in my class. I would take my existing grade spreadsheet, and add columns for gender specific pronouns, parental information as I knew it (i.e., Mr. and Mrs. Smith versus Ms. Brown) and a letter grade rather than a number. (Yes, it's possible to use a series of IF statements in a formula to replace the need for this, but frankly this seemed like a bigger pain in the neck. So I would go down the column, typing, say, B+, C-, A, B, C, C+, etc. However, if I accidentally had autocomplete on, that B would magically turn into a B+, and that C would become a C-. Gah!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I think that's the single biggest flaw with all Microsoft products: they think they're smarter than you, and it's usually impossible to convince them otherwise.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: without that stupid paper clip coming up.
Poor clippy(I think thats his name). Everyone hates him.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
"Poor Clippy" my butt. That paperclip is one of the most obnoxious and insidious creations ever and it deserves to be hated. It deserves to die a slow, painful death. I wonder what made them think it was a good idea in the first place.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
If you google "word," "paper clip" and "hate," you get a fascinating number of hits.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: "Poor Clippy" my butt. That paperclip is one of the most obnoxious and insidious creations ever and it deserves to be hated. It deserves to die a slow, painful death. I wonder what made them think it was a good idea in the first place.
Someone thought it was cute and clever.
They should be staked out in the middle of the Sahara, allowed to almost die, then be revived. This process should be repeated until they repent.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
rivka, it's the same person that thought Microsoft Bob was a good idea. 'No really, they'll like it this time, I swear!'
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I don't know what Microsoft Bob is. Am I better off not knowing?
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Problem is, the flying toasters really were kinda cute, and since they mostly showed up when you were AFK, no one got incredibly sick of them.
We should have nipped it then. *sad shake of head*
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
It was Microsoft's attempt to make computers "friendly" by using a "home" metaphor for every action. You sat at a desk to access your rolodex, your phone, and your calendar; you could head into the kitchen for recipes; and so on. It also featured MS's first attempts at animated "agents" who would offer to assist you with common tasks -- basically a cuter and pushier form of wizard. It was completely useless, in that it was too buggy for the new user and too limited and, well, pushy for the advanced user.
The agent idea got recycled into later versions of Microsoft Office, however, and really wasn't that bad of a concept; people were able to select what kind of animation, if any, they wanted, and could choose when the agent would intervene and/or offer help. Most "serious" users hated the fact that the agent was turned on by default, especially since older machines had real trouble running the animations -- which turned every attempt to consult the Help files (which are actually quite good) into a painful exercise in waiting for a paperclip to unroll itself. I put "serious" in quotes because real serious users just clicked the box to turn off the agent and never worried about it again.
Ironically, this agent technology is still around, and has even been incorporated into Windows Media Player. It's a lot slicker than it used to be, and it's very easy to write elaborate scripts to animate the agents and put words in their mouths. Sadly, people are now so turned off by the thought that most companies don't take advantage of this -- and the ones that do, like BonziBuddy (whose purple gorilla runs on Microsoft Agent), tend to be slightly sleazy attempts to exploit the new user.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Tick: Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Coolest use of the agent thing was, combined with the text to speech engine, an electronic DJ for use with Winamp.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
Tom, the problem was that with the letter thing specifically, Clippy could not be turned off. I think this has changed now, but there was a version for MS Word where, even if you had clippy off, he would come back if you typed "Dear ___,<enter>."
It got to where, I kid you not, I would write the text of the letter first, insert a couple of blank lines, and then type the salutation last, without ever hitting return after that line.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Ah. *grin* The infamous Letter Wizard. Yeah, when they wrote the Letter Wizard for Office '97, even if you turned off the agent for all other purposes, he still appeared when you typed "Dear ____." No matter what.
And this would be why I love UberSoft.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
That blog entry is oozing with precisely the attitude JonBoy described. I prefer to set up my own indents and tab stops, and I hardly think that's a "broken" way of writing a letter.
Considering that their way of doing things was often wrong (look at the grammar checker for several thousand excellent examples) you can see why they raise such ire.
(Kind of like the automatic numbered lists. Didn't work so well when you were trying to write a vocabulary quiz. Luckily, those could at least be turned off.)
But then, I really hated wizards in general when they first came out. Luckily, they have gotten a lot less pushy lately.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: I prefer to set up my own indents and tab stops, and I hardly think that's a "broken" way of writing a letter.
Well, no, it is. Because the GOOD way to do this is to do it ONCE, save a template, and then never, ever, have to do it again. But MS estimates that only 10% of users have ever created a template for any reason, mainly because they don't realize how useful they are and how easy they are to create.
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I use templates for lots of stuff. MS Word can't hold a candle to the old Aldus PageMaker when it comes to ease of creating templates and useability, btw. But I don't write letters every day, and most of the letters that I write are not business letters. So writing a letter, for me, pretty much consists of writing the first line, moving the indent over half an inche, and writing the rest. (I don't need to move the indent back for the closing, because I usually kick in several blank lines before I start typing anything, to preserve the formatting and to be able to more easily key to the end of the line [my pinky has a hard time hitting the END key without me having to look for it]). I don't feel the need to have a template to save me the trouble of moving the indent one half inch once.
(If I were writing a business letter, is it truly so hard to click the right-align button for the recipient's address? Now we're talking about two steps: click, and click+drag. My goodness!)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: (If I were writing a business letter, is it truly so hard to click the right-align button for the recipient's address? Now we're talking about two steps: click, and click+drag. My goodness!)
You'd be amazed. We get support calls about this.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I wouldn't be amazed, but that's only because a good part of my income used to be in training people how to use software.
I, on the other hand, have a number of templates set up. I see no reason why I should have to remember the formatting for a specific publication when I don't have to, for example. I don't think I could keep track of the number of different templates I've set up for very specific purposes.
But then, I'm a geek. And I'm lazy. And I define laziness as being efficient. Posted by accio (Member # 3040) on :
I wouldn’t be amazed either. My job is not software support but co-workers come to me with their problems.
One asked what had happened to her word doc.: She had turned on the tracking feature without knowing it.
Another one showed me her Excel file and told me that the whole page scrolled: She had turned on the scroll lock.
My pet peeves: A person who does not use “reveal code.” That really bugs me.
Sorry I had to vent.
[ June 18, 2005, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: accio ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
One nice thing about Apple's relatively new Pages application is its sort of an odd cross between a word processor and a page layout app. It has wonderful support for templates, both coming with a wide variety and having easy user-created template capabilities.
So I have things like a layout for my standard paper, a layout for my standard paper with regular subheadings, a layout for a note-taking list (with . . . well, its not really like word's autonumbering) autonumbering set up to do lists in exactly the way I want, that sort of thing. (Autonumbering never automatically tries to kick in when it looks like one's writing a list, though, its just a different sort of style one can turn on and off and customize in a few dozen ways).
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
I use templates for quizzes, vocabulary quizzes, and stories. I used to show codes, back when I used WordPerfect, but I have always found the feature clunky in MSWord. A pet peeve of mine is applications that try to be several things at once, like a word processor and a layout program and a graphics program. Oh, and, in case you're wondering, I have decided I don't know what a paragraph is today. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Part of the problem with showing codes in MS Word is that Word doesn't actually use codes in the same way, so the feature is 99% useless. Microsoft knows it, too, which is why they haven't bothered to spare anyone to develop or improve the feature since their first half-assed attempt.
Posted by accio (Member # 3040) on :
Tom: One of the reasons for my frustration is my co-workers who use the space bar to try to line up columns instead of setting tabs or inserting tables. Then they wonder why the columns won’t line up when they print.
Posted by Haloed Silhouette (Member # 8062) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote: (If I were writing a business letter, is it truly so hard to click the right-align button for the recipient's address? Now we're talking about two steps: click, and click+drag. My goodness!)
You'd be amazed. We get support calls about this.
Even worse when it comes to NETWORKING. My father has problems when he calls up tech-support, whenever the phone company @#%@!$!@$#!@$#-ed up.
quote:"Bezeq (the company) Shalom, this is Erez speaking."
"Hello", replies my father. "I have a problem connecting to the internet: I verified that the router I use is OK, and restarted it thrice; I chrecked the modem for flaws but the output lights say everything is functioning on its part; I also contacted my ISP and they say the connection is fine and they have no problems on their side. The only problem that might be is on your end."
"Do you use a router?"
"Yes, I told you I use one. And I checked all four computers connected to it, as well as a different system on a KVM switch just to verify before calling you. The problem is on your side."
"What operating system do you use?"
"I use Libranet 2.8.1, which is Debian-based. Kernel 2.6.5", my father is Open Source the whole way.
"I repeat", the guy says ignorantly. "Do you use Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows Me or Windows 98 SE?"
"I use Debian-based Libranet, using the Linux 2.6.5 kernel, it's based on UNIX...!"
"OK, Whatever", replies the technician. "Go to Start, Programs, Accessories, Communica-"
"Look", says my father. "I have no time for your buggered up ignorance! Tell me technically what is the thing you want me to configure! Don't start sending me all these damn Wizards because I have a different system, you IMBECILE!"
"Please contact your ISP, the problem is not with us."
"I'm sick of this. GIVE ME YOUR !@#$ING MANAGER!"
It gets worse.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by accio: Tom: One of the reasons for my frustration is my co-workers who use the space bar to try to line up columns instead of setting tabs or inserting tables. Then they wonder why the columns won’t line up when they print.
Ugh. See, this is why I think that a word processor is not a tool that should be put in the hands of novices—at least not in a professional setting. They've taken the fine art of typography and given it to the unwashed masses.
Posted by Haloed Silhouette (Member # 8062) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy:
quote:Originally posted by accio: Tom: One of the reasons for my frustration is my co-workers who use the space bar to try to line up columns instead of setting tabs or inserting tables. Then they wonder why the columns won’t line up when they print.
Ugh. See, this is why I think that a word processor is not a tool that should be put in the hands of novices—at least not in a professional setting. They've taken the fine art of typography and given it to the unwashed masses.
My mother was writing a letter to the lawyer, and since I'm good in page-geography, layout and typography, she asked me how it was. I then needed to delete the date and put it in the header; configure bulleted lists; correct alignment; set tabs; and on the top I needed to use a two-columned letterhead (below the header), so that was section editing; and I endlessly tried to teach my parents that you don't double-enter for a paragraph (as that changes the statistics and makes it uglier thn a 12-point inter-paragraphical space, when using TNR-12 @ 1.5) - you always use paragraph configuration!
It's would have been one thing to print it plain uglily. But tehre were unclosed parantheses, inconsistent use of vowelage*, use of paranteses instead of brackets, sentences badly punctuated, syntax lacking, and paragraphs that were not constructed ideally.
I simplpy couldn't let a lousy leter be sent to a lawyer. I spent 15 minutes proofing everything (down to the detail of writing low numbers down in words and writing the number in brackets, as well as making sure that when she dashed she did {text, singlespace, dash, singlespage, text}, that there's a space before and after parantheses and brackets, making sure that if something is bolded, italicised or underlined, that it doesn't change the punctuation after, and forget the language corrections I had to do!), and another 20 minutes I spent on layout. One louse single-page letter!
Never give MS-Word to the layman. I have it on my mother's computer because sometimes I have to print from our laser printer, but that's the only REAL purpose of it there.
Jonathan Howard
* In Hebrew, when not writing down the vowel symbols (which is almost always), you usually write with matre lectiones (voc? sp?). The only problem is that usually people add when they shouldn't - and I add precisely as much as I think that is needed without useless ones, which is roughly what books use, just a little more conservative.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. Free, and works better than MS's equation editor (though it does have more of a learning curve).
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
If you're going to type equations into Word -- or any Office product -- that's the way to do it.
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And I'm lazy.