quote:

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I respect you -----, I respect you as a person, as a thinker, and as a child of God, undoubtedly our most important, shared characteristic. I’ve been responding to your e-mails for that exact reason, I respect and care about you. Because as much as I could pretend that I didn’t care what you think of me or what I am or will do, it does matter, and I was hoping that you would be able to see that I am doing what I think is best; not what others have told me.

You asked about my background? I was not born into the Mormon Church, nor any other Church. I was raised as an agnostic, I thought like an atheist, and I had nothing to do with religion until two years ago. It was one and a half years ago that I took Christ at his offer to be baptized in His name, having faith in Him, that He could save me, and that no other could.

I was not a drug-dealer, I didn’t engage in gambling, sexual-relations, or any sort of illegal or significantly immoral act. Yet by receiving baptism, and through reading scriptures, and through thought, reflection, and prayer, I certainly learned of my own unworthiness, my despicable condition. I know that my past will condemn me, just as I know that my soul is clean through the redemption of my Savior, Christ. All that I can accomplish through eternity, and all glory that I will ever receive will not be because of any supposed perfection on my part, but because of the Love, and the sacrifice of our Lord. I claim no perfection, no better hand in life. Nor do I claim superior morals or consciousness.

You’re accusation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints promoting, in any way, self-centered, or egotistical behavior shows that, to my regret, I have failed to communicate to you what it is I’ve been focusing on. Yes, I very clearly remember the incident you speak of, I remember it because I spent a month repenting of it, feeling sorrow over it. I have no sinless heart, no overbearing cleanliness from my beliefs, if anything my knowledge of the gospel of Christ condemns my actions that day! I should’ve known better, I had the knowledge, it was only my own weakness, my inability to follow Christ’s path that let it happen. Do not think, though, that my weakness was anything but a diversion from the path that my Church has led me on.

The LDS Church is not about superiority, nor about condemnation. The time spent in meetings, in testifying, in study is not about our dominance of doctrine nor our lofty learning, nor any condition that would bring anything but humility before God, repentance of our sins, and an ever strengthen knowledge of our Savior Christ. When I am led to that great judgment bar I will bow down and acknowledge Christ, no other name! Should I be asked if I believe in the Christ taught in the Bible I will answer from the deep recesses of my heart, a resounding YES!

When I am told that justice demands torment, hell, and spiritual death, as I have been a sinner from birth to the end, I will proclaim, once again, the truth of such a statement! I am a sinner! I do deserve the whip of God to fall on my back, and yet, I expect no such thrashing! My confidence of such an audacious assurance comes solely through my faith in the saving power, and the unending Love, of my Lord. The Book of Mormon makes more references to Grace than all the Bible, and each one I declare to be true. Works shall save none but Christ Himself, and all other are to be condemned by them, me as much as any.

So where is the un-Christian thought in this? I believe in the wrong Christ you say? I confess Christ, and when I lay my eyes upon Him, I will confess His name again, no other. Perhaps, to you, I have chosen unwisely, but I feel bathed in the confidence of the Lord that I shall be cleansed through my faith in Christ as I know Him.

We each felt moved by the Lord, we each felt to be tools in His hand, and yet now, here we are, opposed, in conflict, in tension. Clearly, whichever one of us is right about our errand, he is not performing his task properly, and just as clearly each of us thinks we are that person. Well I will take this step along with you: I say that I am no healer, nor am I a Prophet, nor anything more than a boy. The knowledge I have gained, I have gained through study, through thought, and above all, through the Holy Spirit of God. I declare that Christ is the one, true physician, and that we each need His loving touch on our souls. I can bring no solace through anything I do, save to tell you, that I know Jesus is the Christ, that He Loves both of us, and that for each of us He wept, suffered and died. I know, that after death comes new life, so it did to the Savior, so He will allow for each of us a place in eternity, and for me, I know, Christ prepares no place for His children save He could not prepare a better one, as His Love is not limited by our sins.

When I began writing this, I admit to anger and frustration. I felt as though I could not communicate properly. But I began with a prayer and I felt calmed as I wrote. No. I felt the anger leave and the fire of God enter in. I do not expect you to believe as I do, nor to think as I do. I do not expect you to lay down your objections and meet my decisions and my life with open arms and rejoicing. In fact, I request nothing, I will leave to do God’s will as I know it, and though I wished to go with your understanding, if you can not give me that, then give me, as you have before, your blessing as a fellow Christian.

I do wish blessings for you, -----, may God grant all that is best in your life.

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Hobbes
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
By the way, the part about the anger leaving me? It's true, it did, and right now it's not so much anger as ... unrest, uneasiness. The inability to deal with this properly threw me off-kilter.

Hobbes
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
Hobbes, if I wasn't already in love with my wonderful husband, I might have a teeny bit of a crush on you.
 

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Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
 
((Hobbes))

I hope he can see how much you love and respect him to have written a letter like that.
 

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Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 

quote:

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Yes, I very clearly remember the incident you speak of, I remember it because I spent a month repenting of it, feeling sorrow over it. I have no sinless heart, no overbearing cleanliness from my beliefs, if anything my knowledge of the gospel of Christ condemns my actions that day! I should’ve known better, I had the knowledge, it was only my own weakness, my inability to follow Christ’s path that let it happen. Do not think, though, that my weakness was anything but a diversion from the path that my Church has led me on.

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I think this paragraph is a lovely one and should serve to reassure your friend that you are neither evil or being lead astray by an evil church.

From a non-religous point of view, I would think that toning down the hyperbole of some of the rest of the paragraphs might make your friend accept what you are saying more readily. I fully understand you write that way because you believe 100% in what you are saying and are enthused and happy about it but to those of us who do not share that belief it could seem a little overdone.

Like, "I'll show you who's the humblest of them all. I humble so much no-one else is even close to my humbliness".

But I know that's not what you mean or intend, so it's really not an issue. Just something that struck me reading it.

And I know humbliness isn't a word. I like it though.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
Hobbes, I wrote in your other thread that I hoped you could answer him with calm but strong words.

This was beautifully done.

I hope he listens. We haven't really had to read through his e-mails to you (thanks for sparing us that), but I suspect that he has a bit to learn about listening to others and how to discuss religious viewpoints.

Sadly, he'll probably focus on why you capitalized the word "Prophet."

At least you tried.

Good job!
 

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Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
 
I'm not a true-believer, Hobbes, but your letter makes me want to be. You are well and truly a wonderful human being. If your friend can't find some common ground from that missive then he is missing what he obviously thinks you are throwing away. Wishing you the best in your attempt to heal the rift with your friend.

[ June 27, 2005, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: punwit ]
 

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Posted by ctm (Member # 6525) on :
 
Well done, Hobbes. Your love for and faith in Christ shines clearly through your words. If that does not convince your friend, it is probably because his heart and mind are closed and there isn't much you can do about it, except pray for him.
 

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Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
 
Hobbes. Let me just say that you're going to be an awesome missionary. It took me a year and a half to learn the lessons that you speak of in this letter.
 

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Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
 
Why couldn't you have been born earlier, so I could have gone tracting with you? That was awesome, Hobbes!
 

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Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
 
So well done, Hobbes. I can't imagine it being done any better. Now my only hope is you can let it go, leave it behind. You have said everything that is possible to say, so be satisfied with that and move on to concentrating on your bright future.
 

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Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
 
Me too, buddy... I'm proud of you.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Hobbes

Well done.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"Why couldn't you have been born earlier, so I could have gone tracting with you?"

Nothing's stopping you and Hobbes from freelance tracting on your own time.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Hobbes, I think it's wonderful. I'm so proud. You have done well.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Hobbes, if I wasn't already in love with my wonderful wife, I might have a teeny bit of a crush on you.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Hobbes, that was awesome! You are so admirable! You're truly going to be a wonderful missionary. Your friend has inadvertantly given you the perfect prepatory lesson in resisting the spirit of contention and reaching out in love toward all. Now that you've overcome this challenge, strangers can never daunt you, nor goad you to anger. So there's another thing for which you can be thankful towards your friend.

I do admire you so much!
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"Now that you've overcome this challenge, strangers can never daunt you, nor goad you to anger."

Strangers might not be able to, but ten bucks says I could goad Hobbes to anger.
 

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Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
I'll second Geoff's wish--I wish I'd served with you.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
You know, that raises an interesting question: once they're done with their official missions, do Mormons ever go out on missions on their own?
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
No. At least, not that I know. I guess the church likes to have a coordinated effort instead of a bunch of freelancers.
 

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Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
We can be called as "Ward Missionaries" and do regular direct missionary work within our ward boundaries, including working with the full-time missionaries in the area.

Plus, we are always challenged to continue being "member missionaries," that is, proactive about introducing the church and its teachings to those around us.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I think that's what Taalcon's calling is right now - ward missionary. Or, as I like to call it, Elder Buddy. They go to appointments and might go tracting, I think.
 

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Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Plus, they encourage retirees to serve missions together as a couple. Single sister retirees or widows also sometimes serve in teams. Usually those are not proselytizing missions, but instead are making use of their expertise in various fields for humanitarian missions, perhaps, (clean water projects, for instance) or else to help establish new wards and branches in places where there are few members with much experience in the church. Senior missionaries might be called to work in a temple, or to establish a family history program, or teach food storage and preservation, or serve in a ward library, or almost any other calling in the church, as far as I know.

I've never heard of any single brother retirement aged missionaries, though I suppose it could happen.

There are lifelong missionary opportunities in the church. I hope to serve someday myself when it's financially possible.
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Hobbes Rocks the Socks.

I may not have talked to you one-on-one much, man, but I've respected you and enjoyed your presence here pretty much from the beginning.

I'm glad I had the chance to meet you at WC2.

You'll be fantabulous missionary, Elder Tiger.
 

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Posted by MattB (Member # 1116) on :
 
Well done, Hobbes. I admire your testimony.
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
Hobbes, you amaze me. To write such an clear, insightful, and calm reply to someone who (it seems) has been extremely unsupportive of your religion is remarkable for someone of any age, but truly astounding in someone so young. Religious discussions can so easily become heated, even among people with the best intentions, that people forget themselves and go off on hurtful tirades. It's wonderful that you didn't do this.

This makes me miss you even more.
 

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