Either I couldn't get the spelling right, or the thread is gone...this will have to do.
Q: After completing a year-long class in Basic Judaism, I feel qualified enough to give a four minute informational speech on an aspect of this religion. I am asking for some opinions as to what you think about a few I have in mind:
1.) Judaism vs. Christianity (a brief comparison on the basic belief systems regarding the afterlife, etc.)
2.) Shabbat (I can borrow or buy some great props for this one-including challah-yum!)
3.) Prayer (Orthodox)
Now, I realize these topics could take years to truely explain but this is just for a Speech class, that for the most part, has no prior knowledge of Judaism.
Your opinion, as well as anyone else's would be greatly appreciated.
[ June 29, 2005, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: Valentine014 ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
mmmmmmmm challah
I say Shabbat.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Shabbat or prayer would be wonderful topics.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
To be honest, out of those three topics, prayer is the one I know the least about. My Hebrew isn't very good either. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Did you need sources? Cute stories? Insights? Recipes? Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
As a non-Jew who knows a bit about Judaism, I think Shabbat might be the most interesting to look into - partly because it's a concept that people beginning to find out about Judaism can find a little strange. The bit on Shabbat in Herman Wouk's "This is my God" is really clear and well-expressed. Rivka, did you recommend him to me? I am sure that someone did but I can't remember if it was you or one of my rl friends!
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
While reading this, I had several questions and observations.
In every movie I've ever seen that involved Judaism and the ritual of lighting the candles 18 minutes before sunset, I've never seen the second part of that, which is the "brief evening service." And to be honest, usually when I've seen the lighting of the candles, it has been dark outside, so the fact that it is 18 minutes before sunset would have surprised me if I hadn't read some of rivka's thread.
My main question is about the use of electricity. Combustion engines can't be used for obvious reasons. I even understand about the refrigerator light. But isn't the refrigerator itself running on electricity? And the stove in which the next day's meal is being prepared? Or is it the fact that that the "fire" was started before Shabbat started that is important? How would the use of an electric car be seen? I mean, it would be using the same type of energy as the stove or the refrigerator, but it would be transporting an object into the public domain. But I wonder, do all Jews live within walking distance of their temple? I would think urban sprawl has really hurt this effort.
I love the beauty of the whole thing though. I think that for Christians, the repeal of the Blue laws has been a bad thing, but as we are supposedly not a nation that endorses a specific religion, I understand why they were and not being religious myself, I'm kind of glad I can shop on Sundays. But, I still think it has been damaging to society. If Christians hadn't changed the Sabbath to Sunday instead of Saturday, I wonder if the Blue laws would have been repealed, as they would have been more multi-religious. (I don't know on what grounds they were overturned in the first place, so it may have nothing to do with the separation of church and state.)
(Also, rivka, if you answered this stuff in your thread, sorry. I read lots of it, but haven't read all of it.)
But, I would also be interested in either topic 1 or 2, but would lean toward 2 more.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Shabbos (and Kashrus, for that matter), are the two observances that (in my opinion) have served to keep the Jews distinct over the millenia. They are ancient practices that are still rigorously upheld today. My (Orthodox Jewish) kid can't fully participate in, say, the Boy Scouts or our township athletic programs because both have activities on Saturdays. Fortunately, Shabbos observance is common enough in my neck of the woods, and there are Scout groups and sports leagues that are Shabbos observant. Similarly, we can't eat at non-kosher (i.e. just about ALL) restaurants, or parties, or friend's (and even family's) houses.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
quote: How would the use of an electric car be seen? I mean, it would be using the same type of energy as the stove or the refrigerator, but it would be transporting an object into the public domain.
Religious orthodoxy does not allow this on shabbat.
And for what you said about cooking, the fire WAS started before shabbat, which is the important thing. There's a traditional Jewish dish called cholent, that works on this idea. It cooks for 24 hours, so you put it in friday evening, before shabbat comes in, and then you can have a hot meal the next day.
Val, I like the Shabbat idea too. That would make for an interesting presentation.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Why did that make you angry adam? (assuming the angry smiley was not an accident)
Val herself is a non-jew who has been to many services. She was always welcomed and invited to come to more events...
Posted by Minerva (Member # 2991) on :
Shabbos would be excellent, I think.
Or how about kashrus? I know a lot of non-Jews are interested in it, and most of them are baffled by the symbols on the food they buy in the supermarket. My cousin is a mashgiach, and he has tons of interesting stories.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:If Christians hadn't changed the Sabbath to Sunday instead of Saturday,
The question of whether Chirstians "changed" the Sabbath to Sunday is actually very complicated. The Catholic Church does not teach that this is what happened. The Sabbath is considered part of the Law that is no longer applicable. Sunday was picked as a day of worship because it coincides with the Ressurrection. It has some similarities to Sabbath, but many, many differences.
However, some denominations do teach that Sunday worship is a direct descendent or replacement of Sabbath. I don't know what the common Protestant teaching is or how denomination-specific it is.
Of course, there are also Christian denominations who worship on Saturday instead.
In short, it's a very complicated manner. And, of course, your question doesn't depend on whatever the actual distinction is.
quote: But isn't the refrigerator itself running on electricity?
I know this one after appliance shopping.
When someone opens the refrigerator, they often increase the tempature enough to trigger the thermostat to start the compressor running. This means the direct action of the person started the electircity going.
Sabbath-compliant refrigerators use a timer instead of a thermostat during the Sabbath. That way, there is no direct connection between the person's action and the electricity starting. That's the distinction.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
I'll just tell you what one Gentile (and Christian) would like to hear about:
* Meditating on Hashem. I was looking through a book, but I didn't understand enough to know if Jews do the same sort of prayer as (Protestant) Christians, or what they intend from it. Maybe it's different.
* Guilt and forgiveness. What the dark side does; how to overcome it. Forgiving other people (Christians say it's essential, some Jews at least say it's not, for sufficiently serious offenses.) I was asking a few Jews about this, but so the saying goes, ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions!
* I would be interested in the differences in Judaism and Christianity, but it might be hard to do this in a non-confrontational way. If you're up to it, that would be cool.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
And post your notes here after!
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
quote:But I wonder, do all Jews live within walking distance of their temple?
My old synagogue had a room downstairs with several sofas that pulled out into beds, for out-of-towners and those who simply lived too far away. I suspect that sort of facility is fairly common in Orthodox synagogues.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
quote: The reason Christians no longer have a custom of worshiping on the Sabbath is because there is no commandment to do so. The practice of attending the synagogue every Sabbath did not originate in the Bible, it originated in the Babylonian Captivity. The Jews in captivity invented the synagogue as an institution to preserve their heritage and their religion in a foreign land and that is when they began the custom of weekly synagogue attendance.
There's a timeline in there, but I think the key difference doctrinally speaking is that it's not an alteration of the Sabbath, but a replacement for it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: The bit on Shabbat in Herman Wouk's "This is my God" is really clear and well-expressed. Rivka, did you recommend him to me?
Since I haven't read anything by him, I think I can safely assume that I can't take credit.
quote: In every movie I've ever seen that involved Judaism and the ritual of lighting the candles 18 minutes before sunset, I've never seen the second part of that, which is the "brief evening service." And to be honest, usually when I've seen the lighting of the candles, it has been dark outside, so the fact that it is 18 minutes before sunset would have surprised me if I hadn't read some of rivka's thread.
I recommend that you not get me started on Hollywood's absolute lack of . . . *sputters* . . . well, let's just say I've been known to launch into 30-minute diatribes on The Frisco Kid alone, and leave it at that. Not that it should be surprising that the movies get these things wrong; many other cultures and religions show up greatly distorted in movies as well.
quote: But isn't the refrigerator itself running on electricity?
Yes, but I don't (and cannot) do anything on Shabbos to cause that to happen. Dags is wrong on this one. Opening a refrigerator does NOT cause a direct result, but an indirect one -- at least, assuming the bulb has been removed or otherwise disabled. (Yes, there are people who buy "Shabbos refrigerators" that are even more indirect, but most Orthodox Jews I know consider them unnecessary.)
quote: And the stove in which the next day's meal is being prepared?
No cooking on Shabbos, although as Raia mentioned, things can be left cooking from beforehand (WITH certain measures taken).
Electricity is actually fairly complex. All (Orthodox) agree that its use (or more correctly, turning something on or off) is forbidden on Shabbos; there is a fair amount of debate as to precisely why (fire (electrical sparks)? building (closing circuits)? something else?).
quote: But I wonder, do all Jews live within walking distance of their temple?
Orthodox Jews wouldn't call a synagogue a temple, but they would live near it. ("Near" can mean a couple miles.) If there isn't one close enough, get at least ten men together in someone's living room, and voilà!
quote: (Also, rivka, if you answered this stuff in your thread, sorry. I read lots of it, but haven't read all of it.)
Eh, don't worry about it. It's a long thread, and I rarely mind a chance to yammer.
quote: I should have noted that I have no general objection to non-Jews showing up to services. I've brought them myself on more than one occasion.
Thanks for clarifying, adam! (I was very surprised by the earlier post.)
quote: Guilt and forgiveness. What the dark side does; how to overcome it. Forgiving other people (Christians say it's essential, some Jews at least say it's not, for sufficiently serious offenses.) I was asking a few Jews about this, but so the saying goes, ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions!
Forgiving someone IF they have asked for your forgiveness and demonstrated remorse (and made any necessary compensation) is indeed required by Jewish law. However, forgiveness does not mean that they necessarily regain your trust. If someone steals from me, then returns the object and apologizes, I must forgive them. But I don't have to leave them alone with the cash register. (In fact, if I know that theft is a temptation for them, I am probably forbidden from leaving them alone with the register.)
Forgive, but protect yourself.
quote: My old synagogue had a room downstairs with several sofas that pulled out into beds, for out-of-towners and those who simply lived too far away. I suspect that sort of facility is fairly common in Orthodox synagogues.
Actually, I've never heard of that! It's far more common (in my experience) to have congregants put up out-of-town visitors in their homes.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Sorry about the temple wording instead of synagogue. Talk about your major brain farts. I know that. I have no idea why I put in temple. Weird.
So, does this also mean that you don't have to do dishes on the Sabbath? That would be wicked cool. (I ask because of the not laboring, "nor your manservant, or your maidservant. " And since I figure the maidservant was the one cleaning the dishes, then dishes shouldn't be done. But that would be kind of dangerous. . . leaving dirty dishes around for at least 24 hours.
So, to sum up. Not having to do the dishes - cool.
Having dirty dishes around - not cool.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Sorry about the temple wording instead of synagogue. Talk about your major brain farts. I know that. I have no idea why I put in temple. Weird.
I was clarifying, not offended.
quote: So, does this also mean that you don't have to do dishes on the Sabbath? That would be wicked cool. (I ask because of the not laboring, "nor your manservant, or your maidservant. " And since I figure the maidservant was the one cleaning the dishes, then dishes shouldn't be done. But that would be kind of dangerous. . . leaving dirty dishes around for at least 24 hours.
So, to sum up. Not having to do the dishes - cool.
Having dirty dishes around - not cool.
Well, can't turn on the hot water, so that makes doing dishes difficult. If I needed a dish, I could wash one (cold water, stiff-bristled brush instead of a sponge). Otherwise, I rinse off the worst of it, and then put the dishes in the dishwasher (when possible) or in a dish basin. Some people let them soak in soapy water.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Dags is wrong on this one. Opening a refrigerator does NOT cause a direct result, but an indirect one -- at least, assuming the bulb has been removed or otherwise disabled. (Yes, there are people who buy "Shabbos refrigerators" that are even more indirect, but most Orthodox Jews I know consider them unnecessary.)
Ah, well, that's what I get for extrapolating from manufacturers' material.
quote:· The defrost cycle is not controlled by door openings. The defrost cycle runs on fixed clock time. · Ice and water cannot be retrieved from the dispenser · The main temperature control and Quick Chill™/ Express Chill™ displays will not illuminate. · Quick Chill and temperature settings will remain at temperatures set before Sabbath Mode · Touchpad sensors will not tone · Door alarms will not operate · The icemaker is automatically disabled (bottom freezer models only; icemakers in side-by-side models will continue to operate unless the icemaker power switch is set to off) · Interior lights and dispenser lights will not operate · Current fan state will continue as current regardless of door opening
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
OH! It's for one of the digital-readout models! Those absolutely need Shabbos retrofitting, but it's not because of the thermostat.
I forget that some people have such fancy schmancy appliances. Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
For the record, I chose Shabbat as my topic. I've found people very interested in that. I myself included.
Quick question:
Can I light candles and recite the kiddush on a Tuesday night?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You may light candles whenever you like. Say the bracha without God's names (substituting "adoshem" and "elokeinu" is what is most commonly done). Kiddush is similar. Just substitute almost-names for the real names (non Hebrew-speakers are unlikely to be able to tell the difference anyway).
Now repeat after me: shah-BISS. Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
*pulls up desk and chair* *puts on learning cap(which ironically looks a lot like a kippah *
*Ahem* shah-BISS.
So, I'm thinking my attention getter would be to light candles and explain the kiddush and other props: wine, chalah...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Sounds good. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ooh, can I come? Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I know. This is one of those times I'd love to be able to see a speech. Weird.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
No, no, not shah-BISS. The accent is on the first syllable -- SHAH-biss.
Although to some, that pronounciation is hopelessly old-fashioned and old-country.
In MY crowd, it is quite the rage to be hopelessly old-fashioned and old-country, so SHAH-biss is the pronounciation that I use and that the folks in my shul use.
The more modern (i.e. Israeli) pronounciation is "shah-BAHT". It telegraphs more than you'd think how you greet someone on a Saturday morning: "Good SHAH-biss" = old school Orthodox, "Shah-BAHT Shah-LOAM" = Zionist, or Modern Orthodox, or not Orthodox at all, but still Jewish.
And don't get me started on what a guy's kippah communicates!
Just Ki-BITS-ing (oy!)
Esther
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Hmm. I could sneak into the speech. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know what's disturbing? I got a perfect score on the kippah quiz.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Bangitout rocks! (Even if I AM in NJ. Bangitout -- it's not just for Upper West Siders anymore)
And Tom, I am super impressed with your acumen. Shekoyach.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Adam,
You're single? My sister lives on the UWS. A lovely girl. She'd make a great wife and mother...
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Nu?
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
On the Sabbath... Mormons observe whatever day is most likely to allow them to rest in the community where they live (and by rest, I actually mean give service to the church ) In Muslim countries, it's Friday, in Israel I imagine it would be Saturday. Unfortunately, I don't know of individual cases where it has been accepted for a person to consider Wednesday the sabbath because that is the only day they have off work.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You know what's disturbing? I got a perfect score on the kippah quiz.
And I got three wrong!
adam, bangitout is hardly the province of only NYers!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I've been reading bangitout (intermittently) longer than I've been on Hatrack. So have many L.A. frummies I know.
You, my friend, are living in the distant past. *pat pat*
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
What is the proper Hebrew name of the challah cover and plate? (with pronunciation please )
UPDATE ON SPEECH: Outline coming soon!
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Oh my goodness! I've just been calling it "the challah cover" and "the challah board". I didn't know that there was a special name!
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Hey, if that's the common name for them, that's what I'll call them!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: I've just been calling it "the challah cover" and "the challah board".[/QB]
Um, ditto! I'm sure they are called something else in Hebrew/Yiddish, but every English-speaking household I've been in just used those phrases.
Looking forward to the outline. Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Yikes, my speech is tomorrow and while I'm perfectly capable of giving a play-by-play of Shabbos, I don't feel I've conveyed the "essence" of the holiday.
With an imcomplete introduction and a non-existent conclusion, my speech is far from done. I'd love some advice to help fill in the gaps. Please take into consideration that this class knows little to nothing about Judaiam.
I'll email it to anyone for the asking.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I'd like to read it. Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
I would as well.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
rivka, dana, please let me know if you don't get the outline in about 10 minutes. Gmail has been giving me problems and sometimes won't send the file.
Edit: and Boon!
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Email me, and I'll let you know if there are any problems.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Tante, your email is not in your profile.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Doh! Because Hatrack couldn't sent to my Verizon account.
I'm queen.esther@verizon.net
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Got it, but can't open the attachment. What program is it in?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I re-sent it as a word document. Plus I pasted it in the email. Aren't I a great boyfriend? Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Got it, made suggestions, emailed it back.
Lovely. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Just got home. Will check email immediamente.
Hope it's not too late and/or you already got what you needed.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Nope, not too late. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
What are you doing up this late?
Email just sent.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
.........writing a speech.......
Edit: Darn, I can't open it. Xavier has this thing with Open Office and refuses to get Word, something about it being just as good as Word....sure, then why do I always have so many problems with it...could you please resend as a text email?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*giggle* Tsk! Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Did you get that edit?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Nothing new in my email . . . well, unless you're trying to get me to refinance. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*looks up* OH!
Will do.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Does your email support color? Otherwise I'll have to use something else to flag my comments, etc.
Drat! Mine doesn't. Hmm.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Bold, perhaps?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Nah, my email didn't like that either. *s worked, though.
Sent. Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
So, Val, I'm waiting to hear -- how did the presentation go? Set off any fire alarms with those candles?
I hope you got a nice grade, and a well-received talk.
Tante Esther
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*also waiting* Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Yes, my speech went really well. I just got home actually. It never would've gone so smoothly if I didn't have everyone's help. Thank you so much!!
I ended up going to my teacher's house and gathering up all of her "Shabbos supplies". I was scared to death I was going to set off fire alarms ( I even positioned myself between the two detectors!).
I couldn't find any challah (I guess no one in Omaha sells it on a Tuesday ) so I used Italian, which I kept eating throughout class. I will get my grade and peer evals back next Tuesday.
Again, thanks everyone for all of your help! Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
No challah? 5 point deduction!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Congratulations!
If you ever need specialty bread mid-week again, call me -- I love baking bread. And our new oven was delivered this morning.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Glad to hear it went well.
Next time, if you want challah on an odd day, you might be able to find Kineret at the local market.
Of course, any bread will do. And Italian bread is yummy.
Posted by Haloed Silhouette (Member # 8062) on :
quote: Now repeat after me: shah-BISS.
Now, repeat after me: Shab-BATT.
And by the way, I still have to do the dishes on Saturday. "Don't think you can get out of it", I was told.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I do dishes on Saturday too. Saturday night.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Why is the title ask the rivka?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Because there can be only one!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*ulp*
But at some of my forums, I'm not the only Rivka!
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
You're going to need a katana and a Scots accent.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Me bairns! Me pur bairns!
I canna giv' you anymoor! The engines cahn't take it!
I think I'll skip the sharp pointy thing, though.
Posted by Haloed Silhouette (Member # 8062) on :
Did anyone hear 80-year old women speak Yiddish in a Scottish accent?
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Ah, well, that's what I get for extrapolating from manufacturers' material.![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
And I got three wrong!![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
) so I used Italian, which I kept eating throughout class. I will get my grade and peer evals back next Tuesday.![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)