I just watched a documentary last night called Before Stonewall. It explores the history of the "Gay Rights" movement in the years before there even was a movement, or even before the word "gay" was in vogue as describing homosexuals. Filmed in 1984, it has several taped interviews with gay men and women who experienced life as homosexuals in the 1920s-1960s, many of whom later became the leaders of the movement.
Although I don't necessarily agree with everything said by all of the people interviewed, I think there is a lot of enlightening information in this documentary for anyone interested in gay rights issues today. While the information is presented in a manner sympathetic with the movement, it mostly attempts to explore a social climate increasingly ripe for the movement without being confrontational. It touches on the relationship between the gay rights movement and the womens movement and civil rights movements. It also explores how WWII was significant in bringing gays together and helping them become a politically coherent force. It really brought home to me what it must have been like being homosexual in the early part of the last century.
I'd love to discuss any aspect of this film with anyone who will watch it, from either side of the gay-rights debate. On that note, I challenge everyone interested enough to read this thread to rent this film and post back here. It is available from Netflix (as linked above), or you can buy it at Amazon.com, or Buy.com. If you're serious and can't find it or don't want to buy it, email me and I'll see what I can do about loaning a copy.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Ooh, it's available now for me, so I've added it to my queue and listed it as number one. I should be getting my next movie today and will watch it and stick it in the mail tomorrow, which means that by next Tuesday, they should be telling me that it will be shipping on Wednesday, and get here by Saturday. Unless, between now and then, someone else gets it.
Not that I'm bitter about the sudden slow down in the turn around time, or anything.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
They must have multiple copies. I just dropped mine in the mail back to Netflix this morning, so that copy can't be available now. I also just ordered a copy of my own from Amazon.com, along with a copy of After Stonewall, a follow-up documentary that I haven't seen yet.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
For a little context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots Huh, that entry has been extensively re-written since last year. "Gayola", payola or bribes given by gay bars to police, is no longer referenced.
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
Added to my movie queue in the #1 position. Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Okay, I've watched it am ready to discuss.
And I'd just like to say that I'm from Ashtabula Ohio. I thought that was a hoot. When I was growing up there, it was (and still is) a very small town (population 20,000.) But I have heard it mentioned in movies and on TV dozens of times.
Weird.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
bump
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Well, I'd like to know your impressions of it. Did you learn anything about homosexuality in America that you didn't know before? What did you think about the interviews with the Nazi camp survivor or the WWII US Army lesbian? Did it cause you to better see the need for greater acceptance of gays in society? Did it cause you to change or modify your point of view, or otherwise affect you in any way?
[sorry for not replying before. I've been on vacation this week and not really online that much.]
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I have to say, I was surprised at how many of the WACs in that particular unit were gay.
I also didn't realize that the women's movement was basically caused by the gay movement, both of which were caused by the building of large cities, which is probably why cities were a no-no in Noah's time. You get a bunch of people together and they start thinking that being gay is okay and that women ought to have equal rights. If we just keep everyone tribal and have small communities, it's easier to shun/shame homosexuals and keep our women under control.
I also think it sucks that the gay movement died. It was reborn momentarily for AIDS research money, but it seems like as soon as they came up with the cocktail, and because there are heterosexuals now demanding research money it has gone back into hiding. Except, of course, for the random news stories about the outrageousness of some gay pride parades, which are only news because the media is bored, like the time we had the summer of shark attacks that wasn't any worse than any other summer, but they decided to scare the crap out of people anyway. But, I suppose if and when I rent After Stonewall, I'll find out that I know very little about the movement since the late 60s.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:I also think it sucks that the gay movement died.
Why do you think it is dead? The pursuit of equal protection under the law remains a front-burner issue in this country and in much of the world.
More and more, people are able to be open about their sexual orientation, rather than being forced into the closet in order to retain their jobs, homes, and standing in their communities. Progress has been made in some areas, so the focus of the struggle for equal rights has shifted to those areas where victory remains elusive.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I'm not so sure the "gay movement" has died. I guess it also depends on what you mean by "gay movement". Certainly there are organizations that are incredibly policitally active in asserting the rights of homosexuals. With today's technology, it is also very easy to be both closeted and involved in gay-rights political activism.
I will agree that gay pride parades are increasingly less about political activism and in many ways set back what some segments of the community would claim are necessary goals of the movement, but that underscores one of the biggest problems that has plagued the "movement" from the beginning. What exactly are "we" fighting for and why? And who the hell are "we" anyway? Opinions differ widely within the community itself. And, to some, it doesn't help that sex sells and the gay sector is a very lucrative and increasingly visible market.
I, myself, haven't watched After Stonewall though I did buy it and plan to watch it soon. I'll also watch Before Stonewall again and take some notes on specifics I wanted to talk about. I know there are others, but the details escape me at this point.
Posted by AshtabulaBoy (Member # 14702) on :
Fascinating documentary, and was also shocked by the Ashtabula reference!
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kayla: I also think it sucks that the gay movement died.
I just had to pop in to say that this struck me as humorous in retrospect. And if the last 16 years has taught us anything it's that if "the gay movement" died, the religious right would have to re-invent it. There aren't many boogey-men left that are as reliable.
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You get a bunch of people together and they start thinking that being gay is okay and that women ought to have equal rights. If we just keep everyone tribal and have small communities, it's easier to shun/shame homosexuals and keep our women under control.