quote: Disappointment, Comic Book Movies, Batman Begins, Cinderella Man It's such a mistake to look forward to a movie. You get yourself worked up to expect something wonderful. Or even adequate. And then the movie lets you down.
So you get angry at the movie. You've seen people who responded that way. The film they were so looking forward to failed them; they feel betrayed; therefore it's the worst movie ever made. The movie doesn't deserve such opprobrium, but that's how it feels.
Of course, anticipation can lead to the opposite response. You're so sure it's going to be wonderful that the mere fact of sitting in the theater watching it fills you with so much happiness that everything looks good to you.
Which explains why there are people who honestly liked Star Wars Episode I. The movie really did make them happy, and afterward they could only explain this phenomenon by declaring it to be a good movie.
So I'm wary of movies I have high hopes for. For instance, I thought casting Johnny Depp as Willie Wonka in the remake of the Gene Wilder classic was a masterstroke. I was forgetting that the man behind the camera was Tim Burton -- he of the egregiously repulsive vision.
Now the extended trailers for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory are in the theaters, and I have to say that I no longer look forward to the movie at all. I'll probably go see it, but my attitude will be more like that of someone visiting a friend in a hospital after a tragic accident. You hope everything will be fine, but you don't really believe it will be.
Because it is painfully obvious that Johnny Depp's Willie Wonka is modeled on Michael Jackson.
Of course they'll probably deny it, because it's such a vile thing to do. But somewhere during the development of the film, somebody made the connection: Willie Wonka's chocolate factory is "just like" Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch.
Wow. Cool. Depp can model his performance on Jackson, only without the crotch-grabbing! That will give it a spooky kind of reality!
And apparently there wasn't a grownup in the room to say, "Perhaps that isn't the 'spooky kind of reality' that any parents in their right mind would expose their children to."
Everyone will deny it of course (not least to avoid a lawsuit by Jackson himself, fresh from his triumph of outlawyering the prosecutors trying to keep him from taking little boys into his bed). But even children have seen (without adult prompting) the connection between Depp in the trailer and the weird Michael Jackson they've been seeing on the news.
Because I have some naive, possibly misplaced faith in Tim Burton left over from Big Fish , I'm still wanting to see it. I also want to see more of that little boy from Finding Neverland who made me cry.
PS--I'm missing the OSC signing in Utah this August by a total of five days. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Tim Burton can revive our faith with Corpse Bride.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
UH, NO. Johnny Depp is NOT acting like MJ in that movie. For one thing, MJ is sort of... SCARY. Where is JD is just... really...weird in a cool way.
Posted by ShadowPuppet (Member # 8239) on :
actually Depp's charecterization of Wonka is not Jackson
he said it himself
he modeled the character after Marilyn Manson
script wise...I dunno they could have used Jackson for some ideas
and to model the chocolate factory after Neverland ranch just doesn't work
Charlie and the Chocolate factory (as a book) was around way before Jackson's infamous playground
and the original movie was made before then as well
...other than that I share your opinions on movies in general
going into any movie with a preconcieved notion of whether it will be good or bad is just a bad idea all the way around
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Actually, from watching the Charlie promos, it seems to me like JD is channeling Carol Channing.
Doesn't it seem that way to you? The voice? The crazy look in his eyes?
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Man he doesn't mention Newsies for Bale, that was great, dancing and singing around about Newspapers and strikes.
Open the gates and seize the day... !
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
I think Card may be overstating the Michael Jackson thing the same way that he found people to be overstating the Jar Jar Binks thing.
People said that Jar Jar Binks was "obviously" a bigoted stereotype of blacks. Card made the point that this wasn't true, but that Jar jar instead reflected the much broader colonialist bigotry towards "ignorant" natives.
Here, I don't think that Johnny Depp's Willy Wonka is modeled on Michael Jackson. He is simply portraying a disturbingly eccentric childish rich person, a stereotype which is most clearly represented in this day and age BY Michael Jackson.
If anything, Michael Jackson is doing a crappy Willy Wonka impression.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
If I remember correctly, Card was very disappointed in Newsies. He wrote musicals in college, and is VERY aware of the right and wrong ways to make them, so he's pickier than most reviewers when it comes to that genre. Most reviewers, I think, are so mesmerized by the novelty of actual SINGING going on in a film that they are too dazzled to think clearly Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Haha, I know Newsies isn't the greatest musical in the world and Christian Bale can't sing to save his life, but it was my introduction to him as an actor/dancer/singer extraordinaire.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I like the bit in 'Singles Ward' where after the main character looses his faith, he picks out various slasher movies from the video store-- and 'Newsies.'
Apropos.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
That wacky OSC. *chuckle*
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
quote:If anything, Michael Jackson is doing a crappy Willy Wonka impression.
HAHAHA! That is exactly it!
As far as newsies goes, Christian Bale CAN sing (though I don't think Newsies is an example of him at his well-trained best) and it was SUCH a fun musical. And I am a musical critic...and I hate Les Miserables. So there. I'm qualified to make a judgement. Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Ok, well in the song Santa Fe, he definately had some issues and that sticks out the most in my head.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
quote:Charlie and the Chocolate factory (as a book) was around way before Jackson's infamous playground
and the original movie was made before then as well
He wasn't talking about the book or the original movie. He was taking about the new movie, which by definition cannot be an attempt to recreate the book exactly, and, one would hope, would also not be an attempt to recreate the old movie either. (Else why make a new movie at all? Far easier just to rent the original. Which is pretty much how I feel about all the remakes they're doing nowadays anyway.)
Not that I've seen any trailers for the new one. I have no idea how Depp acts in it, so I can't say I agree or disagree with anyone about it.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
(Hi Verily! It's good to see you!! What have you been up to?)
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
(Hi! Well, between moving to a new apartment--in the same complex, mind you--and getting a computer virus that forced me off the Internet for an entire week, I sort of fell out of the loop for awhile. It's good to be back, though. Hope I didn't miss anything important. )
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I giggle every time Puppy refers to OSC as "Card."
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I was just thinking how creepily like Jackson Depp is looking (especially facial expressions) in that movie!
To be fair, I might never have thought of that if there hadn't been so darned much of Michael Jackson in the news lately.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: actually Depp's charecterization of Wonka is not Jackson
he said it himself
he modeled the character after Marilyn Manson
The scary thing is, I found that reassuring.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*fails to see how Johnny Depp looks like Michael Jackson in those clips* And I should know. I get stuck seeing MJ's scary face all the time at the supermarket... Gods, I am so tired of seeing his picture everywhere... Johnny Depp looks more like... a painted up j rocker.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: I giggle every time Puppy refers to OSC as "Card."
I do too. It's so cute. Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Uh, why?
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I think he should consider using instead the word "Pappy."
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Prolly a little over the top.
[ July 02, 2005, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote: actually Depp's charecterization of Wonka is not Jackson
he said it himself
he modeled the character after Marilyn Manson
The funny thing about this is that much of Marilyn Manson's original persona was modeled on Willy Wonka. The opening track from his first album Portrait of an American Family is him reciting Gene Wilder's lines from the boat scene. The second album Smells Like Children was mostly remixes and covers, but for the album photos Manson is in a very definitely Wonka-esque tophat and coat. By the third album though he went away from the evil toys and candy/drugs symbolism, and that persona is the one most people remember.
When I saw Depp's outfit for Willy Wonka, particularly the deep red coat and black tophat, I wondered if they were intentionally going for a more goth, manson-like version of the character. It seems like a mistake to have your character influenced by someone who was so obviously influenced by earlier versions of the same character.
Oh well. Still gonna see it. Like Depp, like Burton.
--Enigmatic
Posted by foundling (Member # 6348) on :
One of Mansons most disturbing videos is a based on the boat scene in the Willy Wonka movie. It is truly creepy. And yet, it works. I'm excited that Depp is modeling his Wonka on manson. Two of the sexiest men alive. Doesnt get any better than that.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
The first time Depp's Willie Wonka showed up on tv, my seven-year-old said, "Who's that lady?" He still doesn't believe it's Depp from Pirates of the Caribbean. Now I have to decide if I am going to let him watch the new Chocolate Factory movie. Someone else (someone here, or someone else I know and trust) will have to see it first and let me know if it's too freaky.
Posted by arevoj (Member # 7347) on :
I've seen it now and I can say that IMHO Gene Wilder is (still) now and always will be Willy Wonka.
And, and I cannot believe I'm saying this, I do not think Depp's interpretation of Wonka was very interesting. He just wasn't very personable and that is disappointing, actually. Normally I find Depp's acting to be brilliant, and Tim Burton and Danny Elfman are amazing.
Actually, after the movie I kept thinking of who could've possibly made it work...Steve Buscemi? Bruce Willis? Hugh Grant? John Leguizamo? Sean Bean? Viggo Mortensen? Willem Dafoe?
Other suggestions?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Christopher Walken.
Posted by arevoj (Member # 7347) on :
Excellent choice!
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Gary Coleman?
Or, how about...Michael Jackson? I believe he was in the remake of The Wizard of Oz, so he has done this kind of thing before.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The Wiz ≠ "remake of The Wizard of Oz"
It's a musical! It's . . . it's . . . it's entirely different! *sputters*
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
As I said in the linked-to thread, my biggest reaction to everything I've seen about this movie is "Depp is creepy". It makes me less interested in seeing it than merely uninterested.
Posted by arevoj (Member # 7347) on :
Eddie Izzard?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Calm down, honey. It's okay. It was only a dream. There was never a musical remake of "The Wizard of Oz". It never happened. You are safe now.
Shhh. Easy, girl, easy.
Shhh.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
Should something be described as a "musical remake" when the original was a musical?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Shh. Don't upset rivka. Never happened. (Can we get a "Shh" graemlin?)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Tante, I happen to adore The Wiz and The Wizard of Oz -- they're just very different movies, and I don't think of the former as being remake of the latter. Not any more than I think of West Side Story as a remake of Romeo and Juliet.
Retelling? Yeah, that would be a good description.
Puppy, in TWoO, the music/dancing was there to dress up the plot. In Wiz the plot was there as an excuse for the music/dancing (and sets/costumes).
[ July 25, 2005, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
But while we're on the topic, can we talk about how awesome Wicked is?
And can I brag about the front row center seats I won in the Wicked Lottery in Broadway?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
No. :pirate:
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
::cries::
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Ic, I read the book (as well as the rest of the McGuire opus) and loved it.
I saw the play and thought it was terrific. My honey and I can get orchestra seats for just about any Broadway show for $15 a piece. Whenever we want. Shows that are booked up for a year solid at $100 per ticket, and we can call up and get $15 orchestra seats whenever we darn well please.
One of the perks of being in a wheelchair. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Ah, yes. I once dated a girl in a wheelchair, and have never enjoyed amusement parks the same since. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
But when I say front row center, I literally mean the middle two seats in the first row (I counted)! I could lean forward and look down at the musicians in the pit! Several of the actors, including Ben Vereen, made eye contact with me!
I think Michael Douglass may have been sitting . . . behind me! [/brag]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Several of the actors, including Ben Vereen, made eye contact with me! [/brag]
Was it the hooting and hollering, or the big foam finger?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
It was the shirtlessness.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Yeah. When you're in a wheelchair, you go straight to the front of the line at the amusement park, you park right by the entrance, never have trouble finding a parking space.
But people don't usually make eye contact. They look at you until you look their way, then they quickly look away, so as not to be caught looking. Or if they do make eye contact it is usually followed by a inappropriate crossing of boundaries, such as asking what happened to you, telling you about their sister-in-law's brother who is in a wheelchair and that's such a tragedy, or to give you the good news that you can have complete healing if you turn your life over to Jesus.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Actually, the handicapped parking at Disney World sucks, with the exception of MGM Studios.
-o-
I know what you mean about people's reactions, but to be honest, I've probably been guilty of it from time to time, and I certainly should know better. But the problem is it seems like there isn't a right way to handle things. I'm a people watcher by nature. But if I happen to glance at a person not in a wheelchair, they're likely not to even notice, or to think anything of it if they do. With people with some visible peculiarity, such as sitting in a wheelchair, or a burn, or parkinsons, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. If I avert my gaze I am being unnatural. If I glance at someone and get "caught," then I feel like that person will think I am staring at them. But then if I look away, I've still been "caught," but now I've done the dreaded "stare and look away." Acting "natural" is impossible when you have to think about just what "natural" means, and it only takes a split second to do the wrong thing.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I look at people all the time. And if they look back, I smile and nod to acknowledge them. That is the natural thing to do for me.
Observe yourself in situations with "regular" folk. The way you act with them ought to be the way you act with everyone. That's your natural.
Unless of course, you are a nasty SOB. In which case, I recommend that you improve your attitude.
The main thing that I do differently around people who have some kind of disability it I might ask them if they need a hand if it looks like they are having trouble. Wait, that's not right. I ask the non-disabled folk the same thing if they look like they are having trouble. So, I guess I just treat folk the same.
Don't be so uptight about it. If, G'd forbid, you went under a bus tomorrow, and needed to use a wheelchair, wouldn't you want to be treated like a normal guy? 'Cause really, you'd still be a normal guy. Just a normal guy in a wheelchair. See?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
And that's another fine thread I've derailed! Sheesh!
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I'm not a normal guy now . . .
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Back to my point, though, I think sometimes you can be trying to be perfectly normal and still give offense.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
How would you like to be treated? Use that as your guide to how you should treat others.*
*Unless by not normal you mean that you are a sadist, a masochist, or a misanthrope.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
People who are so thin skinned and easily offended that an innocent glance or a mispoken word sends them off just need to get over themselves.
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
That is exactly it!![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)