I've seen a lot of hype about Firefly (and more importantly, Serenity), but little about any of Joss Whedon's earlier stuff. You know, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel.
I regard Joss Whedon as highly as I do OSC (a mighty thing for me). He's a genius, an amazing writer, an amazing person. I love the dialogue, the subtlety, the humor, the characters. He has no website that I stalk like Hatrack (not sure he has a website at all), but that doesn't mean I don't love him.
So, whaddya say? Any other BtVS fans out there?
Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
Not yeeet.
I WILL thump you with my Firefly DVD's though.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:but little about any of Joss Whedon's earlier stuff. You know, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel.
You have GOT to be kidding...
Try using teh search engine, there are TONS of threads about those shows.
Too many, really, for such fluffy shows, entertaining as they were in the first few seasons... Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
I'm one of the few people who watched Firefly first, then went back and watched Buffy and Angel on DVD. I'm about halfway through Buffy right now, and just finished the first season of Angel, and am enjoying them greatly. The witty wordplay and lively characters that I love in Firefly are very much in abundance in Joss' other two series as well (although as someone who doesn't instinctively enjoy horror, I do still prefer the sci-fi setting and adult situations presented in Firefly). Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
I looooooove Buffy! I only started watching this year. I was skeptical. "A superheor named Buffy ?" I thought. "This cannot be good." But then my Buffy-obsessed friends more or less tied me down and made me watch the first episode, and I loved it! Now I've converted my brother. My 13 year old brother. Buffy is awesome.
<--- demon.
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Sorry, Kwea, but obviously I'm a hideous N00b who has no right to start topics on her own. XD I'm making fun of myself, because I really am a n00b. I don't frequent message boards much, and I guess it was my fault for just surfing through the first few pages of theads
But yeah, Leah-- I read, and I'm quoting someone else, that Buffy would either be stupid or the anti-stupid. I'm glad it's the anti.
I tend to get a little sleep-drunk at three AIM. Pardon inane babble, and thank you for being patient with me and my redundant board. ;D
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Oh! Earendil.. please do!
The only Firefly I've seen was on Fox, and disjointed bits of random episodes at that.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
I am pretty much a devoted fan, I loved the recycling from Buffy and Angel to Firefly, lots of return faces.
BC
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
I loved the transition of Spike from Buffy to Angel. He's always been a favorite of mine, but no surprises there: I am a teenage girl, afterall.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
*chuckle*
Hey, Spike's a favoriate character of mine and I'm a straight male, so has little to do with that
I love Firefly and I started watching Buffy. I love the characters and the dialogue and the humor but... Buffy's not really what I was looking for right now. Its too dark and too serious, and too horrory. I liked the first season well enough and some of the second season, but I really just don't enjoy the atmosphere. Nor the fact that some of the characters get seriously hurt or killed off. One of the things I liked about Firefly was that no matter what all the characters were ok at the end of the episode. Perhaps that would have changed had the show gone on, but for the first season anyway it held true. Also Buffy lacked the interest of backstory for all of the characters. We know Buffy's backstory as well as Willows and Xanders and all of them. One of the awesome things about Firefly was that all of the characters had very mysterious pasts that was slowly being revealed as the show progressed. I missed that aspect of Buffy.
So end verdict: Buffy's cool and maybe I'll get back into it at a later date when I'm more in the mood for it, but Firefly is a lot better than Buffy.
I still haven't seen Angel. But then I don't really like the character of Angel that much from Buffy. He's too... boring? Of course I haven't gotten to his transformation into Angelus in the second season yet. *shrug* Probably won't for a while yet.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Alcon - don't give up on Angel.
My wife and I started watching Buffy late. I had seen it off and on but never got interested until I taped the musical for a friend who wasn't near a TV that night. After that I started watching and we went in half with my brother-in-law to buy all the DVD sets as they came out. Loved the show, we've watched the whole thing three or four times now.
But hated Angel. Too broody, too mopey (although he's a lot of fun when he's evil). For that matter, after the first two seasons we didn't really like Buffy that much. All of her scenes became "woe is me" scenes. Nothing against the actress, we loved it when she got to play against type and become drunk or a cavewoman or whatever. But if she and Angel were on screen together we just sat back and waited patiently for Willow or Spike to show up again
Then we watched the first season of Angel -- mainly because we had run out of Buffys and were jonesing -- and we were surprised how much we liked it. He's not nearly as angsty when Buffy isn't around, and the supporting cast makes it all worthwhile.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
alcon, shut up, you're addicted, and just need to come to terms with this. (I mean this in the nicest friendliest way I could, but it will probably be edited at sometime after 9 am)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
It took me a long time of being here to realize there were other Buffy fans, too. And I actually did a search. I remember finding 2 or 3 references to the show, but they were never positive. People just didn't "get" it, so I thought that I simply wouldn't find other Buffy fans here. Boy was I wrong. I don't know if they just started watching Buffy AFTER Firefly or what...but the fans crawled out of the woodwork and here they are...
Anyway... I'm a huge fan of Buffy, Angel, and Firefly. In that order. Although I don't really think that Firefly should have to compete with Buffy and Angel. It's a completely different show, and I only put it third out of loyalty to Buffy and Angel. If I could put it in another track, it would be first right next to Buffy...
Anyway... Joss Whedon is pretty exceptional.
Oh... what REALLY shocked me is when I saw OSC praise Buffy at the end of an article dissing Star Trek. I had never heard him mention it before. I didn't think it was really his thing.
-Katarain
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote: People just didn't "get" it
::grinds teeth::
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I loved BtVS! I can't remember the last time I enjoyed storytelling so much. Well, probably reading Octavia Butler or OSC. I don't own the DVDs yet, but I would like to.
We just finished Buffy a few nights ago. We were trying to keep our watching of Angel and Buffy in sync, but there came a point where I found myself just not caring what happened in Angel anymore.
Luv the theme song, though. ^_^
I think I lost some respect for the show Angel during the episodes that took place in Lorn's dimension. They were so incredibly stupid, and they weren't even funny to make up for it. And the whole thing with the vampire pregnancy and birth did little for me.
Yeah, I imagine Angel gets a lot better when Spike joins on. Spike was the best part of BtVS, and is just the "oomph" that Angel needs to really get off the ground.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I was pretty much out of the pop culture scene from 1992 to 2000. When I started watching TV again, I had heard of Buffy, but it's fans were so rabid that it turned me off from being interested at all.
But when it came out on TV, I watched every episode of Firefly. I loved it. I watched the DVDs as soon as I could. I loved it.
So when Buffy started getting shown on FX about a year ago, I kinda started watching it. I was surprised to learn that I liked it.
Bev and I started netflixing Buffy. The day before yesterday we finished the final disc of Buffy. Now we need to go back and finishe angel -- we're in the middle of the third episode right where Connor gets stolen.
It doesn't surprise me at all to find OSC praising Buffy.
I was listening to the commentary for the pilot Serenity yesterday, and Joss said something almost identical to something that I've read Card write -- that every villan is the hero of the story he tells himself.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
I watched Firefly because I was already a big Buffy and Angel fan.
I sorta refused to watch Buffy at first because I hated the movie, but after I heard enough positive things about it I gave in and got hooked. It's probably my favorite show. I have all the DVDs and have watched it several times.
Angel was good, but it had a serious Willow deficiency that no amount of guest appearances could overcome. Still, it's a good show and worth watching. I highly recommend the puppet episode in the last season and the Pylia trilogy at the end of the 2nd season. Avoid any episode with Conner.
Firefly never had a chance to develop like the Buffyverse shows did (7 Buffy + 5 Angel). If it had had a 12 year run, we would have seen entire seasons we didn't like. We would have gotten to know everything about every main character. People would have died and new people would have joined. And I thoroughly believe we would have had one of the best shows ever made.
Instead, we get to savour 12 episodes of greatness (plus "The Message"), One movie and hope for more.
Pix
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I wasn't terribly happy with the Lorne dimension episodes -- certainly didn't need more than one of them -- but as I understand it they were setting up some plot points for later and offering light-hearted shows to offset the really gloomy ones Buffy was showing.
Spike really does spice up Angel and has some great lines all through it, but I still think that bringing him aboard devalued his sacrifice in BtVS. Didn't ruin him in Angle for me, but I can't watch that epiosde of Buffy and care as much anymore.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
I'm shocked to see you guys hate the pylia stories. I thought they were hysterical! Especially any scene with Lorne's mom.
"Numfar! Do the Dance of Shame!" (Numfar was played by Joss Whedon, so that's the creator jumping around in the background)
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
They were sooooo *NOT* funny.
OK, I have to admit that knowing that it was Joss doing the Dance of Shame makes me chuckle. Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I did like Angel seeing himself in the mirror ("Was this thing with my hair always here? Was it?") and his general giddiness, and a dancing Joss is always good, but it seemed a bit forced to me. It also may have made a difference that I first saw them all back to back, instead of once a week.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
No problem, that is why I used smileys.. Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I love Buffy! For years, the images of ridiculous looking monsters turned me off from it completely. Then I heard about the musical, and watched it. I was intrigued and then I noticed my library had the first season of Buffy. I checked it out and soon I was hooked. Now I've been through the whole series twice. It's incredible! One of my favorite things about it is the beautiful consistancy. Apart from one horrid sixth season episode (where she claims she was in a mental hospital before she came to Sunnydale), the show remains true to all that has happened before.
I'm currently watching Angel via Blockbuster Online rentals. I'm in the middle of the third season. Previously, I caught two episodes of Angel on TNT and was appaled by it. But about a month ago I decided to give it a try and I am impressed by how good it is. The two episodes I caught happen to be the two worst episodes I've seen of it yet. (Angel decides to destroy the ring that made him invincible because it would be a reward that he doesn't deserve. And then Angel gets turned into a human and is happy with Buffy. But he decides he can't stay a human because he wants to be able to fight. That episode especially irked me since in the second season he gets all excited about the prospect of being human someday.) It's no Buffy, but I'm enjoying the show.
Firefly's good. Wish they're were more.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I've seen every episode of Buffy and Angel...and have the DVDs of all the Buffy seasons. I loved both shows, but thought Buffy was better than Angel.
she reviews and summarizes (and gives trivia) almost all of the episodes of Buffy and Angel. She is now working through the ones that she missed early in the series.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Aah... if we're sharing buffy/angel sites, Hellmouth Central is one of the best out there. They take themselves a little less seriously now that the shows are over, but they're a great place for Buffy/Angel information and actor/writer news and more.
-Katarain
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Apart from one horrid sixth season episode (where she claims she was in a mental hospital before she came to Sunnydale), the show remains true to all that has happened before.
Not really. Some things that didn't jive for me:
There was one episode in the 3rd or 2nd season where all the parents go all crazy zealot and try to burn Willow as a witch. This episode totally doesn't fit in with the rest of the show.
Near the beginning of Angel, he becomes a human again for a day. He decides to go back to being a vampire, because he is needed in the fight against evil. But a couple of seasons later, he gets all excited when he learns that he might be able to become a real boy again.
When convenient, Sunnydale is a podunk little town. When it is convenient, it is a thriving metropolis with an army base.
I never once believed that Willow would waste her time with Kennedy.
Early in Buffy, it is stated that demons are completely evil. Later, they are just different kinds of people, like aliens in Star Trek.
In the Buffy finalle, the ubervamps that it took Buffy forever to kill are killed easily by everybody, not just the slayers.
I realize that these are minor quips. All in all, it was a marvelously done show, and has much better continuity than most shows. For example, when Xander says to Willow "Let's see how *you* hanlde it when you have an evil twin!", Willow says "I handled it just fine.", referencing back several seasons ago when she did have one. On most shows like Star Trek, the fact that this happened to Willow would be completely forgotten.
One thing that I've really loved about Buffy is that they take scifi show cliches (somebody takes over the body of a main character, a character has an evil twin, etc.), embraces it, and does it spectacularly. Whedon doesn't breathe new life into the cliches by putting a new spin on them, but by doing them superbly.
[ July 10, 2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
It was the musical that did it for me, too. I no idea that Anthony Stewart Head had such an AMAZING voice, so of course I had to run out and buy his CD (Music for Elevators) after that. I didn't care much for the music at first, because I'm a country girl at home and at heart, but it grew on me.
I loved Lypea. "Numfar, do the dance of shame!" had me rolling on the ground and clutching my sides.
I've only seen episodes 1, 2, and 5 of Angel, so the whole Connor thing eludes me. Does it amaze anyone else how far Wesley and Cordy came? They really changed, and, I've been told it's believable. xD
(Holy crap, Doyle's death broke my fangirling heart.)
"It's.. it's MOUNTAIN DEW!"
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
mph- I certainly missed some. Especially "When convenient, Sunnydale is a podunk little town. When it is convenient, it is a thriving metropolis with an army base." Sorry for over simplifying.
However, a few comments:
quote: There was one episode in the 3rd or 2nd season where all the parents go all crazy zealot and try to burn Willow as a witch. This episode totally doesn't fit in with the rest of the show.
This episode was as believable as the ongoing excuse that everyone in Sunnydale simply repressed their memories of vampires. Neither was too believable, but I don't think either was inconsistant with the setup of the show.
quote: Near the beginning of Angel, he becomes a human again for a day. He decides to go back to being a vampire, because he is needed in the fight against evil. But a couple of seasons later, he gets all excited when he learns that he might be able to become a real boy again.
I completely agree and in fact listed this as something that annoyed me about Angel. Angel does not keep the consistancy of Buffy.
I also think that the demons just being another kind of people was far more rampant in Angel than Buffy and only spread to Buffy because of the way Angel evolved. Other than the Anya/Zander wedding episode and that Clem guy, demons were typically bad in Buffy. But yeah, that bothers me too.
quote: I never once believed that Willow would waste her time with Kennedy.
I agree. I have lots of problems with the seventh season in general. And I HATED Kennedy.
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Yeah, Kennedy.. I think alot of that was just the show's writers trying to quiet the people who freaked out at them for killing Tara, making Willow the "token lonely gay person" or something.
But I agree. She could have been less bratty, and it could have been less sudden.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: Does it amaze anyone else how far Wesley and Cordy came? They really changed, and, I've been told it's believable.
Again, I disagree.
Wesley goes from being an incompetent dork to almost immediately being a bad-ass fighter. How? We never know. Because the dork schtick wasn't funny anymore, I guess.
Cordelia is slightly more believable, but to me it's might be even more annoying. So many shows take it as a given that if you experience a lot of pain, it makes you deep. Cordy had a lot of pain, so OF COURSE she stops being the shallow pain that she was before. Nope -- people in pain are still people, and pain is not a panecea for spiritual enlightenment.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Well, give some credit. She is experiencing the pain of others. Even if it was completely "selfish", I can see the result being her wanting to stop that pain.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
I agree with Beverly. I think the depth came from her increased desire to help others, not specifically from the pain.
As for Wesley, I think it was reasonably believable. He found a place that he fit in and was loved and gradually became more confident in himself. References to his father and his stay on Buffy, make it appear this might be the first time in his life that this happened. It's not unreasonable that he would change.
[Edited to add: I didn't, however, believe that Wesley would randomally sleep with that blond he met a bar. I think that was done just to make him "cooler".]
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Wesley also got away from the Watcher's Council. He wasn't too old to do a little bit of growing up.
Yeah, Cordy's growth came from the whole 'pain of others' thing, but I think getting pushed into the real world had a whole lot to do with it, too. She goes from Queen of Sunnydale to low-class actress pretty quickly. Could be a pretty harsh slap in the face. Highschool teenager to adult in the real world's a pretty big transition, too.
The shows were flavored a little differently; I can understand the character change. Look how far Willow and Xander came.
Also: When James Marsters landed Spike, I heard he was told he could do a Southern accent instead of his Mockney one. *bwah*
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
The part that I'm objecting to is him instantly going from physical incompetence to being a deadly killer.
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Can't defend that, because I haven't seen the 'in the middle' part. In seasons one and two, he was still a bumbling idiot pretty much most of the time.
Wesley with a pickaxe = love.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I remember Wesley growing into it. I think he was a bit more physically fit when he arrived on the scene, although he was still a dweeb. But he didn't get good overnight, it took a couple of seasons.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
It could be a trick of perspective, but I recall watching him be an awesome fighter and saying "wasn't he all pathetic just a few episodes ago?"
Posted by babager (Member # 6700) on :
HUGE Buffy and Angel fan here.. Have never seen Firefly but would love to buy the season before the movie comes out.
Oh.. and I am sure many of you know this..but Joss Whedon is writing the screen play for the Wonder Woman movie. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Joss has shown that he can do the woman as the hero (and not "just the heroine" as he himself said). Sounds like it will be great. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That's right. When I heard they were doing a WW movie, I groaned inside. But when I saw that it was Whedon doing it, I said "If anybody can make that work, it's him."
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Well, Joss is responsible for the Buffy movie, too. Even if he did disown it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I actually enjoyed that movie.
Granted, I was 15 at the time, so my standards were pretty low.
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Hah hah. Crap, man, you people make me feel young. .__.;
Wasn't able to watch it 'till I was 14 (two years ago!) because I thought it'd be gory and skeery. *big baby*
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Joss has kinda a poor record for movies. He thrives with his charactrs and likes to take a long time to develope them. There's just not enough time in a movie to do it properly.
I'm kinda worried about Serenity but I take solice in the fact he already has his characters established.
Pix
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I understand what you say, Pix. I'm not expecting Serenity to be more than really fun for those who have already watched the show. I want to support it, though, on the off chance that the show might get picked up again.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Joss is responsible for the ideas behind the Buffy movie, but he walked away after the director kept going different directions with it.
I've seen Serenity. The characters and their relationships are established quickly and pretty well, I think. A few lines are kind of heavy handed for those of us who already know this stuff, but overall the necessary exposition flows pretty well. And soon enough you don't care, you're having too much fun watching.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
quote:Originally posted by ailurophobic: Well, Joss is responsible for the Buffy movie, too. Even if he did disown it.
not really, much of that was taken out of his hands...and a lot of dialogue was rewritten (Sutherland did a lot of his character's dialogue).
The problem with movies, is that unless you are a big name writer/director, everything is done by committee...and even then you can have problems. I think Serenity has a good shot, because the studio didn't want to mess with what sold a bunch of TV series DVDs. I think WW could be tougher, since it is the type of thing that a bunch of studio people will want to have input on.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
My friends and I have been watching Buffy together this summer. We started with Season 5 in the beginning of June, and finished Season 7 this week. When it started we just wanted to watch something, and I picked up Season 5 because fugu had said it was the best season. We finished the first disc, and immediantly determined when we could watch the next one. I'm afraid those of our friends who don't like Buffy have been left alone all summer, we've been obsessed.
I do think, though, that the 7th season should have been about half a season longer. I think that almost everything that happened in that season could have benefited with a couple more episodes to ferment. Also, there were some things, like Amy's spell, that were just dropped and never fully explained.
What I've noticed from watching the Firefly commentary is that although I love Joss Whedon and think he's a great storyteller, I wouldn't have enjoyed Firefly half so much if Fox hadn't intervened and toned him down. He complains that he was forced to make Mal more lighthearted than he wanted, but I wouldn't have enjoyed Firefly with a different Mal. I think he's a great guy, with a great mind who just needs to be tempered a bit.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
I don't think it was just fox that intervened and toned him down... I think it was Nathan Fillion too. In fact all the actors kinda took Whedon's characters and made em a little more lighthearted and Whedon kinda eventually just went with the flow. Least that was the impression I got from listening to the commentary.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:. He complains that he was forced to make Mal more lighthearted than he wanted, but I wouldn't have enjoyed Firefly with a different Mal. I think he's a great guy, with a great mind who just needs to be tempered a bit.
I agree. I think Mal improved once he was forced to make him a little lighthearted.
Although I still get shivers every time Mal tells Jane "Walk away from this table right now." in Serenity. Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:I don't think it was just fox that intervened and toned him down... I think it was Nathan Fillion too. In fact all the actors kinda took Whedon's characters and made em a little more lighthearted and Whedon kinda eventually just went with the flow. Least that was the impression I got from listening to the commentary.
Whedon really doesn't seem like a guy who goes with the flow, he seems like a perfectionist.
I didn't like the way Mal and Jayne became silly. I think Wash gives us all the silly we need (too much, actually).
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Different strokes, then.
<-- loves the silly
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Impression I got was that FOX forced the change on Mal. THe other actors had their moments (like Wash getting wilder in his flight reactions when Whedon wasn't directing) but for the part they stayed true to his vision.
In Serenity (the movie), while there is humor all over the place, Mal is probably closer to what Whedon originally intended. With reason, he doesn't suddenly get moody or anything.
[ July 11, 2005, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
About Wesley's change in Angel:
It's been a while since I've watched some of the older episodes of Angel. To be truthful I haven't had the chance to watch it from beginning to end like I've been doing with Buffy (currently on 7th season) but I was pretty into it back when it was on WB.
As far as I can recall I didn't find Wesley's evolution to be half bad. I can't really vouch for his fighting skills or anything but as I understand it watchers are trained to be able to defend themselves. I don't know, I simply didn't think his changes were too sudden.
I really liked what they did with him and the prophecy though, I thought his transition from cheery to moody was done very well.
I have to agree though, some of the best episodes are in the 5th season when Spike joined in. However there's a fair share of good episodes in the other seasons as well.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
RICO! A question came up in another thread as to when Spike decided that since he didn't have a soul, he wasn't responsible for his actions while an evil vampire. Did this occur on Buffy or was it not brought up until Angel? I've only seen snippets of Angel 5th season, and since I watched those while you were around, I thought you might have a better idea. Do you?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Actually, Giles went through the exact same transformation. He was the bumbling fool (physically) until Wesley showed up, and then all of a sudden he was impressive and Wesley was the incompetent one.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
I remember Giles being significantly competent long before Wesley entered the picture. He helped Buffy slay vampires in the first season. He certainly became more competent as the series progressed, but that makes sense. He gained a lot more experience and skill.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
I dunno, I haven't seen much Buffy, but I have been giving it a try by watching a couple of reruns. Currently they're doing the episodes when Wesley arrives and in the one I saw he managed to make Giles look like a fool pretty often. ::shrugs::
Buffy still doesn't do it for me. Maybe I'm just dead inside or something but I HATE Willow.
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
Hey Amanecer!
I haven't finished watching the last season of Buffy so it possible that he may say that during Buffy. I don't think it was brought up until he was in Angel though. He's really more "together" when he's in Angel and more as if he's come to terms with having a soul.
Having said that, I think that after I finish watching Buffy I'm going to try to pick up Angel and watch it all the way through. I really enjoy both shows.
I should watch Firefly someday too... If Buffy and Angel are any indication the show and the movie are going to be amazing! Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: Maybe I'm just dead inside or something but I HATE Willow.
*GASPS* Hate Willow? That's a first. Yes, you must be dead inside. No other explanation.
quote: I should watch Firefly someday too...
If somebody were to say... I dunno, buy it for my birthday which just happens to be in a couple of days, you might be able to do just that. Hey, get on AIM.
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
Anyone who hates Willow will incur her flaying wrath!
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Hating Willow is like hating sunshine and puppies. It's like saying Chocolate is nasty and flowers are ugly.
Are you part of the Addams family perchance?
Pix
Willow is my hero.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I think that Willow started turning evil back when she started getting into witchcraft.
Time after time, she decides that since she is able to do something, she has the right to do it.
(Of course, Buffy does pretty much the same thing, but that's no excuse.)
Willow turned evil long before she got the black hair.
I really miss nerdly Willow. I liked her.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
One of my favorite quotes of the whole series:
quote:"What's this? Sitting around watching the telly while there's evil still afoot?" "That's not very industrious of you. I say we go out there and kick a little demon ass!" "What, can't go without your Buffy, is that it? Too chicken? Let's find her! She is the Chosen One after all." "Come on!" "Vampires! Grrr! Nasty! Let's annihilate them. For justice...and...for...the safety of puppies...and Christmas, right? Let's fight that evil! Let's kill something!" "Oh, come on!"
Posted by ailurophobic (Member # 8343) on :
Holy crap, I loved that one.
I wasn't much a fan of Spike when he was going through that whole "omg lovesick" thing, though. It just made him seem so.. wimpy. Then again, I guess he is William the Bloody at heart.
I miss Oz.
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
Nerdy Willow was the best.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I tended to like Willow's significant others more than Willow herself. Although, now that I think of it, I don't particularly like any of the three main characters (Buffy, Willow, Xander) but I still love the show.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I like Xander and nerdy Willow. I never cared for Buffy.
But I have a serious crush on Tara.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I adore Tara! Heck, if Tara wanted to date me, I'd go gay, too!
<--- Listening to "Under Your Spell" right now.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Tara rocks! Her character is truly beautiful. She reminds me of my older, non-gay, sister.
However, I hated the "Under Your Spell" song. It's so self depreciating and the oral sex didn't help either.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
When wasn't Tara self-deprecating? Ever?
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Very true. I didn't care for her in the 4th season because of it. Then in 5th and 6th they made her wonderful and part of that was due to her increased confidence. Just because she is self-depreciating, doesn't mean I enjoy hearing a whole song about how she's not worth anything without Willow.
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
Yeah Tara... I actually didn't like her at the very beginning but she sort of grew on me as the show went on.
Yes I know Amanecer... You told me that would happen... blah blah blah you were right, I don't wanna hear it! Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I think that the point of the song was that Willow was the catalyst that made Tara strong. I admit that taken on it's own it's very self-deprecating, but when you take it in context and realize that in the next episode Tara leaves Willow, it's a lot more complex than that.
Oh, and I love the dirtiness, but that's me.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
You don't like Xander? He was always the most interesting to me. How does he survive? He's *nothing* compared to the people he hangs out with and he's completely and utterly powerless to help with all the insanity that wanders in and out of his life. And yet, he's successful and sane?
"Seven years, Dawn."
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: Yes I know Amanecer... You told me that would happen... blah blah blah you were right, I don't wanna hear it!
Haven't said a word and wasn't planning to.
quote: I think that the point of the song was that Willow was the catalyst that made Tara strong. I admit that taken on it's own it's very self-deprecating, but when you take it in context and realize that in the next episode Tara leaves Willow, it's a lot more complex than that.
I can understand are respect that view. But I still don't like the song. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I like him more in the seventh season. It's not that I really dislike any of them, I just don't adore them the way I adore Tara and Oz and Dawn and Spike. Well, I really don't adore any of them the way I adore Spike, but that's not really the issue. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I don't care for that song either, but she has a beautiful voice.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
I'm actually just about to finish Season 3 for the first time, and then I'll head into watching Season 4 parallel with Angel 1.
Wonderful. Simply wonderful.
I will say that Buffy Season 2 had some of the best hours of television I've ever seen.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
We tried doing the Angel and Buffy parallel, but season 3 of Angle just couldn't compete with season 6 of Buffy, so we left angel by the wayside.
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<--- demon.
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That's a first. Yes, you must be dead inside. No other explanation.