This is topic Battlestar Galactica Season 2 discussion thread in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Nobody else has posted a thread on this yet, and that's a travesty beyond all reason.

For those who are unaware, Ronald D. Moore's new version of Battlestar Galactica is the best science-fiction show on television, bar none (although Lost comes close). It is brilliantly written and acted, with a very gritty, realistic style to it that I've never seen before in space drama. It's about the survivors of a massive holocaust fleeing their worlds under hot pursuit and trying to find another planet to call home. They are constantly on the run, while also having to deal with internal issues, such as rapidly dwindling supplies, pressures between the military and the ad-hoc civilian government, and the fact that some of their enemies are hidden in the fleet actively working to undermine their efforts.

The show is far, far deeper than what I described above; if you haven't seen it yet, just trust me on this one and find the miniseries DVD. Best Buy will be releasing the first season later this month (other outlets have to wait until September).

Anyway, on to season 2 (spoilers):

Holy smokes, that's a lot of plot threads. It was great to see Tigh in charge, especially with the flashbacks and his forceful reminders to his wife that "This is still Bill Adama's ship!" Michael Hogan did a great job portraying Tigh's indecision about practically everything, including the way he hides his uncertainties from the crew around him. With Adama still in critical condition, we're going to see a lot more of Tigh, and I am fascinated to see how far he can take this given how uncomfortable he is with command of the fleet.

Splitting Galactica from the rest of the fleet was a great story idea, but the resolution could use some work. It was a little too technobabbly for my tastes, even though I understood perfectly well every aspect of it. They lose a few points on realism what with the computer display giving meaningless graphical representations on the state of the firewalls; this would have been better (more realistic, that is) had the progress simply been voiced by Gaeta, with Gaeta having to actively try and defend against the Cylon attacks rather than waiting for the security measures to fail.

Tyrol was in fine form, as always.

Caprica-Boomer took me by surprise in running off, even though it makes perfect sense for her to do so. She can't go back to either side, and the only trump card she has is Helo's child. Sooner or later, she's going to have to deal with both the Cylons and the Colonials, and neither of those is going to be easy.

All in all a great episode, and I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season!

[ July 23, 2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Bekenn ]
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I thought the episode was quite good and look forward to more. [Smile]

I didn't enjoy the Tigh & Adama flashbacks- really didn't add anything for me. I hope they don't do more of those.

I'm excited about finding out how Gaius and Number 6's child comes/came to be. I'm under the impression that some number 6 somewhere is already pregnant. So, given that, how did Gaius' seed get there? I see three possibilities-
1) Back on whatever planet he was on before, that Number 6 took a sample and sent it somewhere for later use.
2) The Cyclons clearly have very advanced knowledge of human genetics. Perhaps somewhere they have a copy of Gaius' genetic information and are able to manipulate DNA so that he's the father.
3) The Number 6 in his head is somehow able to take physical matter from Galactica to wherever she is. I sincerely hope it isn't this one because that would make the Cyclons too powerful and complicate everything.

A few other things I've been wondering: Why do the Cylons keep trying to kill the humans? If the great plan is to make a new race that is a mix of the humans and the cylons, you'd think they wouldn't be so deadset on killing the last 50,000. Maybe that's still too big of a number? But if so, how many Cylons are there? There's only 12 types, so every one of the new generation is going to be the genetic half-sibling of 1/12 of the population. Hmm... maybe not. A human man that finds out a cylon is having his baby is going to have an easier time accepting that than a human female who finds out she is going to give birth to a half-cylon. So at first, the women cylons would be having a great deal more kids than the men. In any case, I would think they'd want as much genetic diversity amoung the humans as possible. Killing even more of them doesn't seem productive. So that makes me wonder if maybe the beliefs espoused by Gaius' Number 6 aren't shared by all the Cylons. Maybe her belief about the Cylon God and the next generation differs from that of the average Cylon's.

Well, that's enough rambing for now.

Laura
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
While some parts of the episode seemed to be cliche (the indecisive new leader, the crisis resolved at the last possible moment, etc), I have to say that Scattered is now one of my favorite episodes.

Another thing-- I don't get what happened to Boomer on Caprica. For some reason, my mind won't accept that she just stole Starbuck's radier and left. But then, the only other option is that Six somehow got up and took it (if so, where'd Boomer go?)

--j_k
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I could see Caprica Boomer stealing the raider, but I can't see her leaving Helo behind. I think she was just escaping her potential death at the hands of Starbuck and will likely return.
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Starbuck's line was classic, when Boomer left. cliche, I know, but classic.

I like the medic having to operate, and the guard asking the president to pray with him. I think that scene was well done.

The next episode looks to be very tense.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Boomer-C leaving Helo does seem odd; there's also the question of where she might have gone...

Starbuck's lines get better with every episode. Seeing more of the "minor" characters on Kobol was interesting too (even though it does appear that even the Galactica has its red shirts). Anyone have any ideas as to who the shooters on Kobol might have been? Some people are suggesting automatic weapons-- I can't see a Cylon Centurion hiding from humans.

And-- *gasps*

[Eek!] Belle! Your postcount!

--j_k
 
Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
I'm thinking that they were human-model Cylons, which seem to be more intelligent than the Centurions, and therefore may be used more often when stealth is important in combat. I get the sense that Centurions are used primarily when you have a battlefield situation rather than hiding around in trees.

Amenecer, there's one more possibility I can think of:
4) She was speaking in a more figurative sense, that Gaius's actions in the miniseries led to C-Boomer's pregnancy being possible.

But even in this case, I don't see why they wouldn't have human-model Cylons running around pre-apocalypse getting married and making babies. It almost seems like that's a new objective for the Cylons, something they weren't thinking about when they nuked the colonies.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
4) She was speaking in a more figurative sense, that Gaius's actions in the miniseries led to C-Boomer's pregnancy being possible.

I don't know. Number six was pretty clear that she was the mother and Gaius was the father. If it's really Boomer's baby- I'm going to be quite pissed off.

And you're right, it does seem like they would have been more successful at creating a new generation if they all had a bunch of kids BEFORE the apocalypse. Maybe this provides more proof that not all Cylons care about a new generation? Eh, I don't know... interesting to think about though.
 
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
quote:
I like the medic having to operate, and the guard asking the president to pray with him. I think that scene was well done.
Agreed. And did anyone else find the prayer very...Islamic? Some of the wording sounded very, very similar to the opening prayer of the Qur'an.
 
Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
That's an interesting idea; I don't know how that prayer goes, so I wouldn't recognize any references to it, but I wouldn't put it past the writers.
 
Posted by Chreese Sroup (Member # 8248) on :
 
This season is starting off extremely well.
I can not wait until next week.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Some SPOILERS coming up:

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I liked the latest episode (202: Valley of Darkness). It's cool how the survivor count at the beginning of every episode updates regularly. A few notes:



Now some news. If you haven't checked the site lately, you may not have seen that--

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(more SPOILERS, watch out)

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--they are bringing back the Battlestar Pegasus story arc. This makes sense, as I think Galactica is going to have to get a new crew and new fighters from somewhere if people keep dying.

--j_k
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I really liked the insights into Starbuck in this past episode. I was also a bit disappointed by the Hummer's appearance, but I got over it quick enough. Hopefully it won't be around that much in future episodes - won't the Cylons be able to trace it rather easily?

I love this show a lot. More than any other show I've watched in the past many years.
 
Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
SPOILERS


Regarding Socinus in the brig, Sci-Fi has deleted scenes for most episodes available on their web site. The deleted scenes for Kobol's Last Gleaming (the season 1 finale) are available here. The second deleted scene shows Tyrol freeing Socinus from the brig.

I was much more impressed with this ep than last week's; it managed to be even better than most of season 1! I love that we're two episodes into season 2 already and no more than a few hours have passed since Kobol's Last Gleaming. It's amazing how they're able to keep the tension going....
 
Posted by sjn is #1 (Member # 8396) on :
 
TWO WORDS - Ridiculous show!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Thank you for your opinion.
 
Posted by sjn is #1 (Member # 8396) on :
 
Well, I guess you could call it an opinion, but it's also the truth.
 
Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
That's amazing... he registered a new name just to trash a show in a thread clearly intended for people who like it.

Clearly, a person of refined tastes.
 
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Do you wish to clarify your opinion? Have you actually watched any of Season 2? And you do know we're referring to the NEW show, and not the 1978 version, right?
 
Posted by scottneb (Member # 676) on :
 
*ugh*

I hate newbies like this.
 
Posted by sjn is #1 (Member # 8396) on :
 
I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone here. Everyone has they're own individual taste. I don't think it warrants name calling. You all seem like a pretty intelligent group.
 
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
We are. Do you wish to join us by answering my questions?
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
I'm too tired to make much of an intelligent comment right now, except to say: Best show on TV.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
...did that just happen?

--j_k
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
I like Colonel Tigh.

There, I've said it. I think there's a good man in there, if you wipe away the booze and the manipulative wife. He has no feel for things political but he does have a great tactical mind. He picked up on the objectives of the Cylon boarding party right off (neat plan, btw, trying to turn Galactica against it's own fleet). Tigh can manage people better than expected...his 'I trust you' comment to Gaeda after they 'lost' the fleet was just what he needed. At this point, BSG is the only show I've been watching on TV.

aside: sjn, the point of a discussion board is discussion. Posting a non sequitur such as that won't get you much traction here. [Wink]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I cheered out loud when Cmdr. Adama showed up and made Ellen Tigh go away. I wish it were permanent, as I really don't like her. I'm torn between pity and grudging respect for the Colonel... but suspecting Tyrol? That made me quite sad. I'll die if Chief really is a Cylon, though.

My roommate tried to watch a bit of it tonight, not having seen any episodes before, and I think she got confused within the first 30 seconds. There's no way she could have picked anything up without me explaining it - and that's why I like the show so much. It's so detailed and involved... and we're only a quarter of the way through the second season. Score two points for the SciFi channel.
 
Posted by calaban (Member # 2516) on :
 
Friday nights are my most anticipated night of the week.

So as far as the flashbacks, they've got to be there for a reason and I think it's to cast doubt on the old mans past, showing there was a point in his past where he could have fallen under cylon influence.

Also consider that the soft cylons have all sorts of plans that thier counterparts may not know about and/or approve of.

I like the Greek/Roman theme and I think the 12 cylons are related to the twelve gods. With all the bickering and scheming included.
 
Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Finally got around to seeing last night's ep, and I'm just floored. So far, the second season has actually surpassed my expectations -- I never expected them to be able to maintain the quality of last season, let alone surpass it, as they seem to have done. Go BSG!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Baby farms! Who else guessed it the second the whole "child-bearing hips" monologue started?

My roommate lasted a bit longer during tonight's episode - she came in about halfway through and lasted to the end, though I think she was playing with her phone for a while.
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
This episode didn't have the spark the show usually does. I can't quite put my finger on why.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
No Gaius? [Wink]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I'm so angry....I've missed ALL of second season. Mom passed away on the day of the primier, and I refuse to watch it out of order...so I have to wait till Sci-Fi has a BSG marathon. *sigh*
 
Posted by dawnmaria (Member # 4142) on :
 
Oh Telperion the Silver! I am so sorry to hear about your Mom! :hug: I hope you get a marathon soon!
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I set BG to record last night, but the times were all out of whack and I missed the last five minutes. It cut out right when they were saying something about Cylons being unable to reproduce naturally. This confused me. Was this just an inaccurate rumor? Or does it mean that Cylons just can't reproduce with each other so they moved on to humans? Was this further clarified?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Telperion- I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. [Frown]

I've been recording the episodes for my cableless sister and brother-in-law. So long as you'd mail them back, I could mail you the first four episodes. If you're interested, e-mail me and I'll try to get them out soon.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
I'm so angry....I've missed ALL of second season. Mom passed away on the day of the primier, and I refuse to watch it out of order...so I have to wait till Sci-Fi has a BSG marathon. *sigh*

I'm sorry to hear that [Frown] Good news, though-- there's a BSG marathon this Tuesday, with all the season 2 eps (so far).

--j_k
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Yay! Marathon!

And thanks Amanecer for the offer! [Smile]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
*checks schedule*

Tuesday is one of two days I don't have orientation stuff next week. Hooray! (even though I've seen all the episodes already)
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
No problem Telperion. Glad you found a way to catch them. [Smile]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
It's so unfair that Apollo keeps getting a bum deal from everyone around him. At least the President's still in his corner.

And I know they're trying to make us think this, but if either Adama gets shot next week, I'll throw something heavy in the general direction of the television.
 
Posted by KEGE (Member # 424) on :
 
The old has-been Apollo plotting to kill the hot new Apollo, hmmm, interesting?

But not AS interesting as the kiss.....
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
I will say this, we will learn much more about cylons with the 'new' mate that rejoined us. (minimized spoilers)

I really enjoyed this last episode. The last minute was especially awesome.
 
Posted by rCX (Member # 8503) on :
 
It's a great show. Every episode has been better than the last. So far, none of the episodes have been disappointing.
 
Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Aye, yet another well-done ep. Toss it on the pile.

Must... get... DVDs... but... season... not... done yet!
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
I'll wait until I can get them in BD. Blu-ray with at least 720p, nothing less.

In fact, I've stopped purchasing any type of movie dvd at the moment. Not to mention I'm a poor college student now.

This show is one I have to watch each week.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
I didn't follow any of that, rav.
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
HDTV on dvd. There are two competing standards right now BD-Rom, and HD-DVD. Blu-ray (BD-Rom) can hold more information per layer of the disc. This means that you can have longer movies that still look great in the biggest format standard of HD (1080p).

Think going from VHS to DVD. If you knew DVD was coming out would you continue to buy movies and media on VHS? It's the exact same thing for me. I'm somewhat of an early adopter of HDTV. I watched all of season 1 of Battlestar Galactica in HD. [Smile]
 
Posted by no. 6 (Member # 7753) on :
 
I love the visuals. The hand-held camera on the action is pretty old hat now, but the space battles and exteriors look like combat footage.

Easier to forget that it's digital when the "camera operator" has to reposition quickly, or flash zoom in on the action, like "whoa, there's a ship coming out now," and then centering on that ship. Well done. [Cool]
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
For the most part I love the new BSG. If it weren't on the air, I'd probably cancel my Direct TV subscription--there are other shows that I watch and enjoy, but none of them are worth the satellite payment to me except for this one.

One thing that I find interesting is their use of anachronism, having so many of the details of daily life--civilian clothing, civilian vehicles, architectural styles, that kind of thing--be exactly or nearly exactly what ours are. If you'd just described it to me I'd have said that it wouldn't work, but somehow it does.

One thing that I dislike is the whole "spinal column glows red whenever a cylon is having sex" bit. I mean, surely that must just be a visual cue for us, not something that is actually being depicted as happening in the show, right? Because if not, how incredibly freaking stupid would that be?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Just finished watching the first five episodes... [Eek!] [Cry] [Big Grin]
SO GOOD!

But..ugh..I missed Friday's one... but don't they show it again during the week??
*runs off to check scifi.com*
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
They show them Monday nights after the Stargate Monday Marathons. (11e/10c)
 
Posted by no. 6 (Member # 7753) on :
 
I think their costuming and production departments didn't get the lion's share of the budget. The hummer wasn't the only thing, they wouldn't wear ties.

But coming up with production design for an entire branch of civilization that broke off sometime around the sinking of Atlantis would be expensive. So would building custom ground vehicles. They seem to keep the focus on things that matter to us more, the plotting, the effects, and the action.

Lots of good firefights. 8)
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
no. 6, the designs you see are actually considered deliberate. Mr. Moore himself has said that he has kept many contemporary Earth forms in the show for two reasons. The first was to keep a continuity with our real life human culture so the veiwers can more easily identify with the Colonists. The second reason is related to your second paragraph, minus the expense. Creating a whole entire branch of civilization was too frought with artistic dangers. It was best to keep it somewhat credible instead of risk making it look incredably stupid.
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
bump

Holy Lord, this show gets better every week!

Does anyone think either Adama will actually bite the dust next week (as indicated in the trailer)? I'm guessing no.....
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
It does, doesn't it Bryan? I sincerely doubt that Adama will bite it next week, but one of the great things about this show is that you really can't be sure. They do a stunningly good job of keeping me guessing.

I'm guessing that Sharon was talking about a father and son other than Adama and Apollo, or that her dialog was taken out of context, but you never know.

Occasional, that was my take on it as well. I'm surprised at how well the use of anachronism works.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Awesome episdoe tonight!

Calaban and mackillian on the "when did fiction last make you cry" thread, talked about scenes from tonight's (Friday night's) episode before tonight. Are you guys not from the US and maybe get them earlier? Or is it really on earlier and I'm missing something?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Six's imitation of Starbuck was, for the most part, spot on. I was quite impressed. I'm very glad the fleet is back together, I'm glad neither Adama was shot, and I'm glad Zarek lost his crazy man.

The reunion between father and son (and ish-daughter) was very moving. I can't get enough of this show. And I think I'm spreading the love. [Smile]
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
Oh, good. So it sounds like the August 26 episode had some good things happen? I have it taped, but I was afraid to watch it last night.
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
Yet another episode that was better than the last, if not a little predictable with the way the whole Sharon thing worked out. The characters are what make this show so great, though, and the development between Adama and everyone else was fantastic, and very emotional.

Now that they know the direction to Earth, though, I hope the show doesn't lose it's focus; it's been so much better this season so far, I hope it keeps up.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I'm in the US. I was referring to the first season...at least, I think. It IS the first season DVD set, though is the UK version.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
What the... oh my....
Eloshia dead...

Just watched episode 7! Number Six is IBLIS!!!! I just know it! She is Satan.

AND we saw the way to Earth! The Zodiac revealed! *dances around*
 
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
 
I just love this show! I was mad last week when SG viewers choice preemtped it. I was pretty shocked to when Eloshia died.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
Wait, who is Eloshia?
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
The priestess who died two episodes ago.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Dammit, I want to see the second season, but I don't want to see them out of order. [Mad]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I got a message from my old roommate who went to ComicCon (and I believe she saw the BSG panel, but I'm not entirely sure... I know I told her she had to go, but seeing as she'd not seen the show, I had my doubts... am I still in parentheses?), and she was excited to see that Starbuck and "that guy" finally kissed. And now she's pumped to buy the DVDs.

I love how the show sucks people in.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Did you guys see last night's episode?!!? [Eek!]
Well... we know another Cylon model... just six more to go. And now ALL the Cylons know about Sharron and her baby if they didn't know already. Did you see Number Six's reaction!!
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
They gave up quite a bit more information about how and why cylons attack and transmit information back and forth. You had to listen for it, but watching that part a couple times does a fan-good.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm just glad they're not pre-empting BSG for some overly long SG-1 thing this weekend.
 
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
 
Ha, I couldn't see the time at the break for the fourth act, so I thought I was in for a week of delicious BSG satisfaction when they ended on Ellen bound and gagged (gagged is the important part) and Tigh getting hit over the head... stupid fourth act!

[Wink]
 
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Did anyone else geek out when the soundtrack for the final documentary contained the theme for the original Galactica? I haven't heard any references to that theme since the early 'flyby' scene in the Miniseries.
 
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
 
Yea, I had a total geek out when I heard the original theme song play....
I try to be calm, cool, and collected but this show just keeps me so emotionally involved I can't help myself!
 
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
 
Add me to that list of geekyness. I was grinning from ear to ear listening to that music. I used to watch BG the Original Series when I was a kid. I'd sit there in my bean bag chair humming the theme song.

When SciFi first came out with the mini-series, I refused to watch it because I hated the idea of changing the show. I loved the campyness of the old show. Then I started watching the new series, and it was filled with everything I love about stories -- good characters with complicated relationships and intriguing storylines with good twists (things I am not alone in liking here at Hatrack). I even try to make it a point to watch the rerun of the night to see if I missed anything from the first time through.

Darn it all... I need to get the first season on dvd.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Did anyone else get misty-eyed and fall (more) in love with Tyrol? Because I certainly did.

Why does this show keep getting better? And why don't more shows follow its example?
 
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
 
Carrie.... I was more than misty-eyed. It was seeing the name on the ship that broke the flood-gates. Knowing what's to come for the president. Why isn't BG's finale two hours long? And yet, I bet their finale will answer all the questions needed and present new storylines for season 3 better in one hour than any that takes two hours. It's just good writing and good actors.

Ah... and Season 1 comes out on dvd on Sept. 20th. Can't wait for that one.

Added: Yes... I am that much of a sap. I cry watching movies and tv shows and reading books. So there... [Razz]
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
I want pics of the Blackbird/Laura ship thing.

Something tells me though, given the episode's title, it was originally called the "Phoenix."

--j_k
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I find this season much more enjoyable than the first one. I was seriously contemplating not watching the show anymore. Last Season was boring, sexually explicit, and sometimes extremely violent. This season has been much more emotional and thought provoking and, relatively speaking, toned down. They saved themself at least one fan.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Something interesting about the last episode: did you see the blood-spatter when the Colonial pilots are (rather gratiuitously) killing the cylon fighters? Notice Sharon's expression?

TVG said that we're going to get an episode later this season from the cylon point of view-- and that humans "won't look good." That might be a lead-up to it.

--j_k
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Yay.. that was cool when we saw the entrails of the Cylon fighters. Kind of a payback for the destruction of the Twelve Colonies and their Fleet. I don't mind them finding joy in the destruction of the enemy ships... these things destroyed their civilization and are trying to snuff Humanity from the Universe.

I would think though that they would have captured those hyper-advanced FTL jump engines instead of destroying them. Oh well. Maybe the tech is not compatable.

As for the Cylon point of view... I'm looking forward to it. [Smile]
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
I'm sure there will be much salvage in the wreckage, Telp. Let's just hope the writers think of that =)

A dozen more blackbirds with Cylon engines and FTL drives?

Pix
 
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
*comes stumbling in blindly in case of spoilers*

I've started watching Battlestar Galactica and I'm quite enjoying it. I'm at episode 3, season one, not counting the miniseries thing (the last one I saw was "Bastille Day").

I like the intensity of it. It seems like a lot happens in every episode and a lot of things are going on at once. Everyone has enough of a story or a tension that I'm never without something to be frightened about or something to think about. Since I watch tv very actively (meaning I'm always trying to anticipate what's going to happen next) this is good for me.

I expect to catch up with real time watching in a couple of weeks!

*goes out blindly*

*walks into door*
 
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
quote:
Why isn't BG's finale two hours long? And yet, I bet their finale will answer all the questions needed and present new storylines for season 3 better in one hour than any that takes two hours.
This week is the 'Summer' Finale, not the 'Season' Finale. There's going to be a little break before the second half of the season starts up again.
 
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
 
Ah the joys of cable. It is good to hear. Gives me time to rewatch the first season.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Hear hear! Get all our friends and family into it too!
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
The Pegasus is coming!
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
[Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

FRACK!
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Ensign Ro makes a mean admiral.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
We have to wait till January? They certainly do the scheduling oddly. Does anybody know how many episodes will air once it starts up again?
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
Damn, that was a good finale. Maybe a little too manipulative, though. I mean, they kinda went out of their way to make most of the characters from the Pegasus absolute jerks. Aside from that, though....what a cliffhanger!

We have to wait till January for new eps?! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for how many more eps this season, I believe there were supposed to be 20 for season two, so I guess there are 10 or 11 left.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
SPOILERS FOLLOW!

.

.

.

.

.

- "Welcome back to the colonial fleet?" Cain's got an ego problem. In her mind she is the fleet.

- interesting. With Six, we once again see apparent Cylon horror at human actions.

- hmm, another ship from the old show. I hope the episode involving it doesn't work the same way, though...

- Cain's got a point. Things have really broken down on this ship.

- ...and yeah, so Pegasus folk are sleazy.

- So where were the Marines when Tyrol and Helo ran in?

- Gaius Baltar: Vice President. Scientist. Cylon Expert. Shrink.

- Cain? A fair trial, with one of her officers dead? I don't think so.

- Now there's the Adama I remember.

- This reminds me of Ariel from Firefly: "You mess with my crew, you mess with me" sort of thing.

- Hey, standoff.

- Really like the music for this episode; especially this piece at the very end.

- what? it ends already?

Some thoughts: I really hope that that guy from Peg who took a look at the Blackbird didn't do something to its insides. And I'm hoping they'll think twice before firing on their own.

--j_k
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
oh. my. GODS! [Eek!]
What a great episode!!!

I was like, Madam President, go to the Quorum, promote Adama or something. You are the COMMANDER IN CHEIF. You can have whoever she wants as fleet commander.

Of course... the real power now is in the military. The old civilization and the Articles of Colonization are barely holding on to life. True, they did get stronger with the conclusion of "Home" 1 & 2, but still... Laura's power was a gift from the military/Adama.

But if something endures, it usually becomes stronger... if the civilian authority is recognized by the majority and the longer it survives, the more power it will get.

The problem is that the Pegasus is probably stronger. Cain could do a coup against Roslyn and no one could stop her. But...will she really fight back against Adama? If she fights back, the Human race could be utterly wiped out in the crossfire. If she doesn't, she's lost some power to Adama. But when you think about it, she's might have already lost...because she's fighting a war for a people who don't exist anymore. The Colonies are gone. The only reasons to fight are those in the 60 or so surviving ships.

As for the Cylons... they obviously led the Pegasus to the Galactica. And we know that the Cylons are much stronger than Humans. How strong? And are all the Cylons models that strong or just a few models? How deeply are they playing Humanity? In "Flesh and Bone" we almost cheer the torture of Leobin by Starbuck for the death of 50 billion people. Now the show makes us feel horror at the rape of a Cylon.

Gods I love this show. Messes with your mind! [Smile]
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
I mean, they kinda went out of their way to make most of the characters from the Pegasus absolute jerks.
I was thinking about that, but then I thought about how Adama first reacted after the Cylon attack during the miniseries. Adama was incredibly combative and wanted to go after the Cylons. He didn't because he knew that his more important role was that of protector for the last of humanity. So the two crews evolved very differently. One became more and more combative as they devoted their lives to destroying a genocidal enemy. The other became more and more compassionate as it tried to temper military life to the needs of the civilians it was bound to protect. While personalities certainly make a difference, I think that Galactica would be far less lovable had it evolved under the circumstances that Pegasus did.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Brilliant, Amanecer.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Thanks. [Big Grin]

quote:
Gods I love this show.
You just said it all. [Smile]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I swiped this from another BSG forum. Very cool.
quote:
Adama’s options…

1. Blast each other to smithereens
2. Instigate a mutiny within the Pegasus
3. Have the president remove Adm. Cain from her position
4. Cripple the Pegasus with a virus or damage their ability to jump, then have the fleet jump without the her.
5. Get their men back, and jump the hell out of the system like the Pegasus was Cylon ship.


Now let’s discuss these options a bit:

Blasting each other to smithereens:
Cain’s fleet is on mission and has only her reserve fighters. Nonetheless Battlestar Galactica is still underpowered and overall at best an even match. Is it worth blowing each other to smithereens? This should be a last resort if no other option is possible. It will leave the fleet defenseless, and the Galactica likely dead.

Instigate a mutiny:
Cain is a bad egg and I’m sure she has put other bad eggs like herself in powerful positions. Adm Cain probably did execute her XO and her new XO was so afraid that he’d be next that he said he was “just kidding” to the Col. Many of Cain’s crew members probably want her gone (such as their former XO). If Adama and friends could find some way of supporting the inner contempt within her ship, she may get killed or removed by her own people.

Have the president remove her from authority:
If she could be removed from authority, by perhaps some one of higher authority ****cooopresuuugghhdent***. Or perhaps if her crew saw that the Galactica and the rest of the remaining humans didn’t want her in authority they would stand up against her, or at least refuse to follow her. Adama has weight with the president. This entire time Cain has been using her position within the chain of command to push Adama and his crew around (even her own crew). Why doesn’t Adama use his best friend the President? If the President ordered Adm. Cain to resign (which a president can) and she refused then her crew has no legal duty to her. If the entire fleet doesn’t want her and if she has had her authority legally removed, the only thing that would keep them in line with her is their love for her....which means she's "dogmeat pal". The President and Adama combined hold the loyalty of all the fleet. Is every member on the Pegasus willing to destroy all of humanity to “save humanity”? The essence of worldly power is loyalty from the majority.

Cripple the Pegasus:
Killing the Pegasus’ crew isn’t necessary, as I’m sure it’s just Cain and some of her henchmen that need to be removed.

Get their men, and get out:
One of the better options. Go in, get the men, order Apollo home, and the fleet to prep for jump. Treat the Pegasus like a Cylon and elude them too. They are a threat to the decency and wellbeing of humanity, and a fine example as to why the Cylons came to destroy mankind.


What if the humans returned the Cylon prisoners?
This is really just an idea. If the Cylons knew that Dr. Baltar loved Six, and that he had a “fundamental change”, would they be willing to destroy all of humanity? “They have a plan.” Is it to bring humans into the love of their god? Are they trying to get a Cylon and human to love and procreate to symbolize the union between child and parent?


 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
Leadership by fear, and leadership by love.

JTK: The guy that looked at the ship was just a civ before being drafted, I highly doubt it was anything but engineering powowing.

Not to mention also showing how life is life. No matter the source. (That fracking bastard deserved to die in that cell.)

This episode one made me fall in love with bsg all over again.
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
Telp: I'm betting that the story the XO of the pegasus told Ty was true. You saw the look, and how he said this is going to spiral out of control very quickly.

The XO is ready to crack already and go to Adama's side. With just his observance of Giaus' interaction with the Admiral, and 'correcting' response to the prisoner's treatment you can see that he really doesn't want to be in the position he is in, and wants to be lead by someone that isn't completely insane. (Shooting your XO in the head because he defies an order is insanity and will only cause fear, which is apparently how she leads anyways.)

I love this show.
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:
I mean, they kinda went out of their way to make most of the characters from the Pegasus absolute jerks.
I was thinking about that, but then I thought about how Adama first reacted after the Cylon attack during the miniseries. Adama was incredibly combative and wanted to go after the Cylons. He didn't because he knew that his more important role was that of protector for the last of humanity. So the two crews evolved very differently. One became more and more combative as they devoted their lives to destroying a genocidal enemy. The other became more and more compassionate as it tried to temper military life to the needs of the civilians it was bound to protect. While personalities certainly make a difference, I think that Galactica would be far less lovable had it evolved under the circumstances that Pegasus did.
Great point, you've convinced me.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I really do wonder about the Cylons. They're after the humans, but at the same time, it's like they're trying to evolve to become human.

Is Galactica Boomer on her own agenda, much like Baltar is on his?

Was Six's reaction to her corporeal body manipulative or real?

*sigh* I dunno. For some awful reason, I like Six now. I used to hate her. Now I'm not so sure.

Was Boomer's saving the ship from the virus manipulation to get into the good graces of the Galactica or part of her own agenda and saving her own ass?

And how is the Pegasus not getting shut down by the Cylon weapon that fries the networked computers of the newer Colony ships?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
And how is the Pegasus not getting shut down by the Cylon weapon that fries the networked computers of the newer Colony ships?
Because they were shut down at the Scorpion ShipYards for that three month overhaul...that or the CNP wasn't installed yet, was going to be put in during that same overhaul. Baltar said during the pilot that the CNP was in 95% of the Fleet. So some ships didn't have it yet. Peggy must have been one.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I think this cliffhanger was far better than last seasons (although I am not sure what a season means on cable). Probably said this before, but I think this season ROCKED compared to the last one. In fact, this season seemed to be about the extremes of humanity in each individual. For every horrible thing a character did there was an equally saving grace. I can think of only one character who hasn't been redeamed and vilified: the minipulative wife of Conl. Tye.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Funny. as. *&#@! [Big Grin]

Battlestar! "Thank the Gods it's only genocide!"
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
It will be coming back to finish the season in a couple months. Sci/Fi is goofy about the way they stop in the middle of a season.

Jamie: I think it was real. Depending on what really is going on in baltar's head, it can be two things. 1: She really is horrified at what they have done to her. 2: Baltar really is just crazy, and thinks that she is really horrified.

I think anyone that had multiple selves would freak out if they saw that. Again, Life is Life, no matter the presentation.
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
quote:
Damn, that was a good finale. Maybe a little too manipulative, though. I mean, they kinda went out of their way to make most of the characters from the Pegasus absolute jerks.
It's not uncommon for military units to behave differently from others, mostly due to their chain of command, how they choose to run their units, what is "good for morale," what is not to be tolerated. Having been in three different military atmospheres, I can tell you there were very distinct ways in which things were run between them, and the attitude and morale in each varied quite a bit.

quote:
...and yeah, so Pegasus folk are sleazy.

Cain chooses to magnify Cylon hatred. While Adama and Roslin insist on refering to them as "things," and will occasionally blow them out the airlock, not to mention Starbuck's torture session with Leobon, they didn't come near to the gruesomeness that Lt. Thorne was permitted to inflict. Atrocities are easy to encourage to people who've lost their homes, families, everything, especially when those in power are permitting it.

quote:
Some thoughts: I really hope that that guy from Peg who took a look at the Blackbird didn't do something to its insides. And I'm hoping they'll think twice before firing on their own.

That's an interesting thought. If Cain was so insistant that her way was going to be enforced that she didn't trust them, and sabotaged them with faulty equipment and messed with their ship. That would be looney, but it makes me think off the topic that she might not have any interest in this civilian government (by the way things are run) and a take over could have been imminent anyway (Martial Law Part 2).

quote:
hmm, another ship from the old show. I hope the episode involving it doesn't work the same way, though...
Except the old ship is the newer "high class" version this time.

My two cents on these debates:

quote:
Blasting each other to smithereens:

This is the stuff of third world nations, which with all due respect to our beloved Galactica and fleet, is very close at hand. Before the Pegasus, things were desperate, but not totally uncivilized thanks to the good people in charge. Cain tried to impliment her way too firmly, too quickly, and now she's facing the consequences of that.

quote:
Instigate a mutiny
I think Cain would be wise to what's going on before that happens. There's no doubt that she's made her command something she can manipulate through either loyalty or fear. She's more than just a commander. She's a dictator.

quote:
Have the president remove her from authority:

I don't think that would succeed. Even if she decided not to destroy the Galactica, she wouldn't leave her ship.

quote:
Cripple the Pegasus:

Too great of an asset to lose, unless the Pegasus insists on destroying another ship. I don't think they want to attack each other's battlestars, only prevent the marine assault from happening.

quote:
Get their men, and get out
Easier said than done. I think the odds of them being able to get their men with what marines they have left are very slim. I wonder what they'll decide to go with.

quote:
If the Cylons knew that Dr. Baltar loved Six, and that he had a “fundamental change”, would they be willing to destroy all of humanity? “They have a plan.” Is it to bring humans into the love of their god? Are they trying to get a Cylon and human to love and procreate to symbolize the union between child and parent?
I think one thing is certain. Before it's over, Baltar will be discovered at some point. Even if he turns to the side of humanity, I think the writers have to do a story arc on his guilt. Whether or not he'll remain a blithering coward will probably dictate his fate. It's hard to say what the Cylons really are up to. It seems like the BSG fleet has been really fortunate so far. The Cylons might be having difficulty reproducing. I think that was the issue they were discussing earlier in the season. They might need humans to make that happen.

quote:
Is Galactica Boomer on her own agenda, much like Baltar is on his? ... Was Boomer's saving the ship from the virus manipulation to get into the good graces of the Galactica or part of her own agenda and saving her own ass?

I would be disappointed if this Sharon weren't a good guy, especially after this episode. Although her defection should be suspicious enough to Adama seeing as how the last Sharon betrayed him, and since no other Cylon has proven to be trustworthy. Was she angered at her treatment by the other Cylons, or is her model inherently sympathetic to humans as the original Sharon consciously loved her friends? Maybe as she inherited the memories of the previous Sharon, she was more reinforced by those things. I'm more concerned by the actions of Mrs. Tigh than I am by Sharon.

quote:
Was Six's reaction to her corporeal body manipulative or real?
I think Six has had some fanatical reactions over the series, but I think this one is genuine. She seems to be quite proud of her own model, while despising Sharon's.

quote:
I think it was real. Depending on what really is going on in baltar's head, it can be two things. 1: She really is horrified at what they have done to her. 2: Baltar really is just crazy, and thinks that she is really horrified.

I really think she's traumatized. If not, we'll probably know by the end of the next episoode (in January *whimpers*). I think the Cylons have less to fear in some ways since their existance is different than humans. Since they are trying to reproduce, and it seems that they're able to feel pain, I'm betting that she's been thouroughly messed up. Good set up for the Sharon incident, which in turn became an even better set up for Balter's last moments with her before the end of the episode.

I'm very impressed with how this show has come along. I think it's the best series I have ever seen. I can't think of another show I'd rather watch.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
"I'm very impressed with how this show has come along. I think it's the best series I have ever seen. I can't think of another show I'd rather watch."

I would rather be watching new episodes of Farscape. However, if the writing remains as good as it has this recent season I will put them on equal footing. I fully admit that Farscape is much more cartoonish, but I cared for the characters more than BSG.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Again, Life is Life, no matter the presentation.
Except that a Human life is more important than a dog or a cat. And the survival of the Human race is more important to US than to another species. The Cylons are not Human. They are trying to destroy us. Therefore Human life is more important than Cylon to Humans. And Cylon life is more important to Cylons than Human life.

And not only that, but since Humanity is now 99.9999% destroyed the remaining Humans are all the more precious. It's not Humans trying to oppress Cylons...it's Cylons trying to wipe out Humanity.
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
Cats and dogs are not on the same level of 'independance' as Humans and Cylons.

Why are Cylons not just as important as Humans?

Just because someone wants me dead doesn't make my life or theirs any less or more important from a general point of view.

Are you saying war is a reason to reassign the value of life?

I tend to think that if they were able to overcome their differences, and work together, they would become more powerful than you can imagine. If everyone does what is best for everyone, everyone wins.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Except that since we are Human then what is good for Humanity is Goodness. And also Humanity has the moral highgroud right now. How does 50 billion murders equal one rape?
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
It isn't about equality, more than it's about the realization of an equality.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
During peacetime sure... Cylons and Humans are now equal. But now that the Cylons are on a genocidal rampage against Mankind, that changes things. It can no longer be equal...it can only be Humans on top. And one of the reasons I say that is because I am a human...not a god or some omnipresent moral spirit that can judge. There is a threat against me and all my kind. That is Evil incarnate. So that Evil must be fought against or we die out and nothing of our works or thoughts remain.

By the act of genocide the Cylons have become less than us. They are nothing but the Enemy.
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
Because, how can they end a war they can't win? I honestly think kindness will have something to do with it.

They can report back rather easily.

Internal struggle over a Cylon's health and wellbeing would prove rather moving I think, even to the Cylons.
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
Whatever the grand plan of the Cylons is, I don't think their motivation was due to "misunderstanding" humans. Roslin already had a talk with Leobon about a possible misunderstanding. I think the direction the humans are going right now is probably the wisest of all. All they can do is disappear completely from the Cylon radar, hopefully find Earth (and maybe billions of modern humans) and put themselves in the position of defending themselves from future Cylon incursions, or invent a way outside convetional warfare to stop them.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Here is another BSG funny...
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
It all comes down to Sharon, and wether or not she's been playing everyone the whole time. If she really is doing what is in her best interest, well Cylons aren't as together as we previously thought. At least not with the new models.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I just bought BSG First Season on dvd! Yay!
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
raventh1...I'll get back to our debate soon...I'm busy having a drink and watching my new dvd's. [Smile]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I am so desperately in love with this show. I managed to convince my mother she wanted to buy season 1 for me when I was home, so I think I'm going to be watching that on continuous loop (except on the weekends) until January.

I saw the mid-season cliffhanger last night, as I was out of town Friday. I was quite literally on the edge of my seat the entire hour and two minutes, one hand over my mouth, the other pounding the couch beside me when anything would happen.

quote:
I'm more concerned by the actions of Mrs. Tigh than I am by Sharon.
Word McWord! I do not understand her.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
While people were all geared up for "Commander in Cheif" having the first woman President on TV, the Boston Herald did it's homework.

quote:
``Commander in Chief'' isn't the TV breakthrough ABC might have you believe.

Another TV female president has been shepherding humanity through its darkest hours. Like ``Commander's'' Allen, President Laura Roslin (Mary McDonnell) assumed the reins in tragic circumstances - the 40 or so officials ahead of this Secretary of Education were massacred by the Cylons in the 2003 miniseries that launched Sci Fi's successful ``Battlestar Galactica.''

Roslin has battled political intrigue, quarreled with the military's leader (Edward James Olmos) and struggled with breast cancer as she tries to keep 48,000 survivors alive.

Her mission makes Allen's look like a temp job at a call center.


 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
quote:
Her mission makes Allen's look like a temp job at a call center.
*snort*
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I need Galactica... [Frown] I can't wait till January!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I've been watching Season 1 and cursing SciFi for kicking BSG off their schedules until some mini-marathon in January. Jerks! Don't they realize we're hooked?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Season Two for sale this Christmas!!! Yay!!
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Do you realize you can get BSG episodes on iTunes now?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
[Smile] That too.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
This show gives me the chills, man, the chills.
 
Posted by Chreese Sroup (Member # 8248) on :
 
Wait, Season 2 doesn't finish until after christmas. How is that possible?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
It's the first half of the season. I won't be purchasing until I can get the entire season. [Smile]

Two marathons: one on the 20th, the other on the 5th (I think)! Set your VCRs, so you don't have to spend money!
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
The first half of the season will be on DVD on December 20th. [Smile]

...not that I've got it pre-ordered or anything. Nothing like that at all.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Just 5 more days....
*bounces in seat*
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
In case anyone's curious, here's the schedule for January. Starts Jan 6.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
*runs in circles*
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I haven't seen all the epidosdes yet and I haven't read anyhting here yet, but i'll state this:

BSG is the BEST and MOST WELL DONE scifi on TV!

Its the reincarnation of babylon 5.

And also im now horrilbly confused on who that blond b**ch in dr. Baltar's head is.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
So is Dr. Baltar. [Wink]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
k just finished Pegasus. and ya... Im disturbed, he bloody tried to rape Sharon, that fraker deserved what he got.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
Yeah, I know. Stupid cliffhangers!
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
quote:
During peacetime sure... Cylons and Humans are now equal. But now that the Cylons are on a genocidal rampage against Mankind, that changes things. It can no longer be equal...it can only be Humans on top. And one of the reasons I say that is because I am a human...not a god or some omnipresent moral spirit that can judge. There is a threat against me and all my kind. That is Evil incarnate. So that Evil must be fought against or we die out and nothing of our works or thoughts remain.

By the act of genocide the Cylons have become less than us. They are nothing but the Enemy.

Amen, why does this remind me of Ender's Game? Are we going to obliterate them and feel sorry for our actions or will they eventually feel sorry for us?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I've moved beyond depressed withdrawl into severely frustrated and twitching withdrawl whenever BSG comes up.

22 days. I can totally make it through 22 days.

Right?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I'm with you Carrie...
we can make it..

right?
RIGHT?!!

*twiches*

And yeah Blayne, it does remind you/me of Ender's Game.

Unless there is a huge miracle, Humanity will never wipe out the Cylons. We are too few and too weak. So unless the Cylons make a big blunder, or some Lord of Kobol shows up and wups @$$, or the Colonial get to Earth and Earth wups the Cylons, or if the Fleet escapes the Cylons forever... then Humanity is toast.

But either way... I think there should be mourning if any race becomes extinct... because no matter what they were they were aware and alive and had built beautiful things. They were a unique piece of the Universe that will never be repeated.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I'm happy and ticked off all at once.

I finally have the first half of Season Two in my hands. [The Wave]
But, the unedited "Pegasus" episode is nowhere in here! Those lying, milking Sci-Fi Channel bastards! They said the special half hour longer version of Pegasus was supposed to be in here. [Mad] Now I have to go out and buy the Second Season all over again just to get this stupid thing.
Grrrr.... [Wall Bash]

Oh well.

[Smile]
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
They couldn't get the unedited version of Pegasus done in time for the pre-Christmas release of 2.0 The good news is that you won't have to buy the ENTIRE second season, just the second half of the DVD set. You'll notice there's only half a picture on the spine of 2.0. [Razz]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Oooo... thanks for the good news Mack! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Speaking of Pegasus, I just wanted to say, I hate Admiral Caine.

Hate.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I'm certain had the colonies NOT have been wiped out and the war proceeded normally she would've been a first rate flag officer and probly more restrained and less stressed out by the war. Personally, I hope she and the Pegasus live on and we get to learn more about her and hopefully she becomes a normal and not a psyco person protecting whats left of humanity.

If not then I hope she dies a horrible horrible death.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
*spoilers*
I just watched EP8 of the second season (the Lucy Lawless one). W00t! that I am almost caught up. Anyway, I must be their ideal fan. I get so engrossed in the show that I never see the plot twists coming. I had no idea how the two halves of the fleet would rejoin or that the hottie journalist would be a cylon.

If they take their cues from the original series, the Pegasus will be destroyed (or stay behind to allow the fleet to escape) with Galactica picking up the Peg's vipers to replenish their numbers.
 
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
 
There was an unedited version of Pegasus? [Frown] Is it on iTunes? I'd buy the episode to see it.

I'm rather hoping they'll have each ep of the remainder of the season available for purchase on iTunes shortly after it airs. I don't have cable, nor do I care to get it. But I'm not sure I want to wait MONTHS for the DVDs to see the rest.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
My dad's computer now has iTunes, but I can't log in using my AOL sn(yes, I have an AOL sn). It keeps telling me that the iTunes music store isn't available in the country I specified (the USA?!)

--j_k
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I really don't think Sharon has her own agenda, least... I hope she doesn't cause she's one of my favorite characters. One of the things that keeps frustrating me about the crew is there insistance on refering to the new biological cylon models as machines and things and not recogniseing them as people.

All we are is biological machines. What does it matter if they were made by human's/themselves genetically engineered instead of evolving over millions of years? They still think, they still feel. The difference between emotions and software... emotions are just biological software, chemicals that sit in receptors in the brain. For all practical intents and purposes, the biological model Sharon is human. A superpowered human yes, but... :/

The other models I'm not so sure about, they don't seem to have the emotional range that Sharon does... But they all have some of it, Sharon's the only one who really lets it go and lets it show. The others seem to be trying to hide their emotional tendancies as much as possible.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
With Sharon, it's like she hates the fact that she's a Cylon and desperately wishes she were just human.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Two days and counting till the new episodes start!!

[Party]
 
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
We are all caught up on BSG! We can't get the Sci-fi channel, so we can't watch the next one with y'all, but we will download it ASAP. [Evil]

I am in love with this show. I can't remember being more touched by a TV show than when Commander Adama swallowed his pride and forgave the "rebellion" in order to reunite the fleet. Something you could *never* imagine coming from the Pegasus crew. (I really like what Amancer said about it.) While the crew we have been following has been deepening in humanity, it seems that the Pegasus crew has been losing their humanity--becoming more and more mechanical and cold. Like robots....

But when they were able to open the tomb of Athena, it was like they were truly worthy of the information because of their unity and love for each other. Such a beautiful thing....

I love Sharon. I hope she is sincere in her help of the human side. I still know too little about the Cylon motivations to know if any sort of reconcilliation is possible. Why *do* they want to destroy all humans so badly? And does anyone else get the feeling that if that was all they wanted they would've succeeded already?

As for the angel/devil no. 6 who claims to be an emmissary of God, yet responds very Cylonesque to seeing a copy of herself abused, could she be the consciousness of the Cylon accidentally (or purposefully) downloaded into Baltar's brain instead of another no. 6 body? Could Dr. Baltar be a Cylon himself, and therefore capable of that download? We only know of 6 out of 12 copies you know. And it isn't like Boomer knew she was Cylon or even wanted to be. Remember Baltar asking no. 6 why she speaks to him as though he is not one of the humans? How she tells him he is different and special?
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
[Eek!]

Wow.

Holy. Frack. Wow.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
[Smile]
 
Posted by rCX (Member # 8503) on :
 
[Big Grin]
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
BEST SHOW ON TV! I could go into detail, but you really should learn this on your own.
 
Posted by tmservo (Member # 8552) on :
 
Really good ep. The bit about shooting civilians.. JEEZ! Yeah, I agree with the president, this is a one-blow fight; strike first, or not at all.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
If this has been brought up on here before I apologize but has there been a discussion comparing this show (which was awesome tonight, by the way) to Mormonism? I found some discussion about this in relation to the old series but the new series seems to have hints of it. Or am I just seeing things? [Big Grin] If this is an offensive topic, I totally understand and will get back to the more imporant part...holy moley!

Amazing switches...Lee is the rebelious one and Starbuck is all "Don't bother me, I have a job, deal with it" and Adama is unsure about violence (initially) and the President is all "you have to kill her." I laughed, like Adama, when I heard her say that and slowly my smiled faded as I realized she was dead serious. My little gang that watches this together had a lot of theories of how tonight was going to look and we all got fooled. I can only suspect our suspicions about next week will be equally wrong.

Any predictions?
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I can't see the President as a blonde, either.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
fil, aside from using plot devices from the older shows that were already steeped in LDS lore, I am hard pressed to see any connections.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Agreed. I am in love with the show. By me, it can do no wrong. My new goal is to convert the masses to also watch it.

As for tonight... WOW. I think my favourite scene was, surprisingly enough, when Lee went to visit Helo and Chief... and then almost smirked at Kara when he told her about the visit. It was almost like he was saying "Yeah, well, you may now have the equivalent of my old job, but at least I visit my friends." I guess I thought it rather poetic. I think it also showed, to a lesser extent, how Lee can now inspire the entire crew, whereas Kara just takes their money in card games. I also think Lee is the hottest piece of manhood to grace the television screen in many moons. [Big Grin]

Cain is evil. Nothing more to it. And I love her XO. I really really like the guy, if only because he's Mr. Exposition. And he can perhaps match Tigh drink-for-drink.

Now that I think of it... the promo commercials they showed tonight throughout SciFi Friday were awesome. Like the one where Kat decks Starbuck, and where they're using the defibrillator on Lee, and Roslin's flashbacks (ie, where she's looking healthy), and Starbuck's visiting with Boomer... these ten episodes are going to go by far too quickly.

Oh, and I missed Gaeta tonight. There should be more about dear old Felix.

And finally: If the spoilers I read months ago are right, next week's episode will be even more amazing than tonight's. Possible? Barely.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
I think Cain's XO is the key to everything right now. I'm hoping that Starbuck would still shoot Cain even after the 'Let's return to Caprica' speech. I don't think the XO will be able to kill Adama, he already seems to feel guilty over the civilian deaths (and of his predecessor).

Too bad they can't see the other Cylon models on the Resurrection ship.

I heard someone speculate that President Roslin is a cylon recently. Before last night's episode I dismissed it. Just the way she talked while she and Adama were alone toward the end...unnerved me. I still don't think she is one but I'm no longer sure of it.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
If Roslin is a Cylon, they're really screwed. (Taken from Adama saying to Roslin, "If I'm a Cylon, you're really screwed.")

I think from Roslin's POV, Caine is actually a threat to the entire human race at this point. There's no point in executing people left and right when you've only got, what, 50,000 people left? Not the time to be killing folks. If the prison transport ship had hooked up with the Pegasus, Tom Zarek and his group would all have been dead. Dead dead dead.

I think once Caine's XO is on the Galactica, he won't do it. Why? Because he'll be on Galactica and out of Caine's "If you don't obey my orders, I'll shoot you" regime. Hell, he could even ask Adama for asylum. As for Starbuck, she'll at least attempt to do what Adama asks of her.

quote:
I also think Lee is the hottest piece of manhood to grace the television screen in many moons.
Why yes, yes he is.
 
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
 
So most of us, and by "us" I mean the Jatraqueras and at least three, agree about Lee Adama/Jamie Bamber. He is a damn fine man.

I am wondering about Kara, though. Wasn't the abuse she experienced as a child from her mother? I think Caine is someone very much like Kara's mother. A strong woman in the military who had certain ideas of how best to run her military/family. As much abuse as she had as a child, I think Kara hero-worshipped her mother. She wanted to matter to her. I think it will be a struggle for Kara to go through with the whole plan. Caine has a hold on her with the whole idea of going back to Caprica and with this resemblance to her mother. Caine is a very charismatic leader, just as Adama is. They are so different in their leadership styles and what their end results for that leadership produces, yet within the last five minutes, we saw them both setting similar plans in motion that will end in some sort of bloodshed. Both trusted their closest subordinate, and yet, Adama wants Kara to think about what he is asking of her, while Caine's plan is an order to be carried out to its fullest length. (This seems to include taking out the whole CIC, if need be. Adama just wants Caine out of the way.)

I agree that Kara will attempt to shoot Caine. I am just not sure she will be able to do it though. If she does do it, it may send Kara into a strange character arc. Then again, if she doesn't, I wonder if Lee takes it upon himself. (I love what Adama said about Lee. It shows he trusts him. The only reason he didn't ask Lee, in my opinion, was that he knew Kara is the only one who can get close enough to Caine to carry out the plan.)

One last thing, Caine is one scary mother. Her enjoyment of Six's alter being beaten is horrifying, and what she did to the civilian ships, especially having an example in Adama, is unconscionable.

I cannot wait to see next week's ep.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
What I like about Cain is how she shows the human side of Adama's XO. We all were supposed to hate him, but we find out through Cain that he only did what he did because of events out of his control or leadership abilities. Cain is truely terrible and enjoys what the XO even finds horrible.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
I'm desperately trying to avoid spoilers...I already read something about what happens in the final episode of the season (which is going to kick a$$ if it's true). Is it Friday yet?
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
It desperately trying not to shout spoilers on this thread, as well.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
I think Caine's XO is kind of at risk, though, because he has to take her Marines with him. Sure, he gets to pick them but there is a good chance they are more loyal to Caine than to the XO (whom I also really like). I hope that in the fallout of this that some of the intereseting Pegasus folks stay behind (assuming that the show can't have a long-term relationship with another Battlestar).
I don't think that Kara will be able to carry out her mission from Adama...it will more likely be either Lee or better yet, her old XO (unlikely but it is a possibility).
Any guesses at who is a Cylon on the Pegasus crew? I can't see them not taking this chance (by adding a whole slew of characters) to add a new Cylon to the mix. My guess is the Pegasus CAG, if only because he is hesitant in his duties a bit. And he just has "that look." Which is probably on purpose.

Thanks for comment on BSG and LDS stuff. I figured it was a carryover a bit because all the info I could find on it related to the original show.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Tick, email me or IM me with the spoiler!

The thing is, Adama is Starbuck's father figure. She'd do anything for him.

I'm not sure if Caine is charismatic as much as...scary. On her ship, you obey or die. No need for charisma there, it's compelling all on its own. While some of her crew do seem the follow her in the cold inhuman methods out of their own will, others seem to really be hurting over becoming inhuman (Caine's XO as an example). They don't want to do the morally wrong things she tells them. But they have to, or they'll die (as she's illustrated more than once).

Adama's crew follows him because they choose to. They trust him, his leadership, and knows he will back them one hundred percent. They know he's fair. They know he's thoughtful. He's their leader and holds no death threats over him if they don't obey. In fact, they are even able to resign if they so choose (as mentioned in "Final Cut" no crewmembers have chosen to exercise that option). In contrast, Caine "drafts" civilians into her crew, whether they like it or not. They aren't volunteers.

It's an interesting comparison to Crashdown's breakdown on Kobol in the first half of the season. First he reverted to Entirely By The Book (any military officer knows that you've got to have some adaptability/flexibility to be successful). He ignored the advice of the chief (any good officer will listen to their seasoned NCOs. They know their stuff). Then there was his threat to Cally just before the raid on the Cylon missile control. Cally isn't a marine, she isn't fully trained in infantry beyond what she's learned in basic (and as the Chief said, it was a long time ago for all of them). She's a deckhand, a mechanic. She fixes stuff, that's her MOS (military occupational specialty). For her to tweak like she did (the signs were already there beforehand and should've been fully addressed by her CO before the raid was to take place) wasn't out of place. Was it against orders? Yeah. Should she have been disciplined? Yes. But Crashdown's ultimatum with her at gunpoint completely messed things up. She's already afraid of messing up and dying. Holding a gun to her head and saying "Do it or die now" is only going to make her sieze up and panic more. Crashdown's leadership had become like Caine's while the Chief was still acting as Adama would.

Would the Chief have shot Crashdown? Maybe, but we'll never know for sure because Baltar took care of it.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
No, if there's anyone who can shoot Cain its Starbuck. And I'm sooo looking forward to her doing it... is it bad that I'm looking forward to Cain's death so much?
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Blast simultaneous posts...

"Would the Chief have shot Crashdown?"

I think he would have, but I think he would more likely have shot to disarm, not to kill.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I had a fantastic evening last night, but it meant that I had to miss the show. Anyone know off the top of their head when they rebroadcast the episode? I'm thinking that it's late Monday night, but I can't remember for sure.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
I'll be playing it on my dvr in about five minutes. [Big Grin]

Sorry, that won't help you any.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
Monday at 11pm Eastern.

E-mail sent, Jamie.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Thanks Tick!
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
I think the relationship between Starbuck and Adama are more strained than we have seen. Caine is exactly the type of commander that Starbuck wants right now. Remember, Starbuck and Adama really haven't gotten over the whole 'lied about earth' bit that got her running away from him back to Caprica. She returned to find her father figure in a coma. They do hook up a bit at the Tomb of Apollo but I half wonder if their relationship lost a bit of luster (consider what happened to her and what she saw on Caprica). The fact that Caine wants to move forward with going back to fight Cylons puts her, maybe not on equal footing, but at least stable enough footing to cause her some doubt as to where her loyalties lie. I think her returning in the middle of the showdown between both Battlestars was a bit more than just coincidental symbolism. She genuinely is in the middle. She obviously won't subscribe to Caine's methods but on the other hand she wants so badly to go back and fight Cylons in her home space. Just a thought.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
How's about a random thought:

Anders and the rest of the Caprica Buccaneers aren't dead on Caprica because of Six's love of Pyramid... [Wink]

On that note, I was supremely disappointed in Kara when she fell for Cain's manipulations about "rescuing" them and "taking back the Colonies." Honestly!
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Just rewatched the episode.

Anyone else think that the writers were pushing it a little when Peg's XO (His name is Jack I believe) said she killed the families? I wouldn't put it below her, but it's as if Cain is being intentionally vilified, to the point where it's hard to understand her actions.

And, oooh, double-murder plot.

Predictions for the next episode, read at your own risk (though there may or may not be any spoilers below!):

<speculation>

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Adama won't get shot. We've been through this before (Kobol's Last Gleaming, anyone?), so I think he's going to come through unscathed. It would be a waste for Cain to die at the end of this episode as well, so I don't think she'll get shot either.

After the conflict, and Jack (Cain's XO) is already on Galactica. Jack and Cain's loyal marines try to kill Adama, but the plan fails. Adama has been expecting Cain to make a move; maybe he's prepared, maybe Jack can't bring himself to give the order. Consequently, Jack and the marines are captured and brigged.

Meanwhile, Starbuck boards Pegasus with the intention of killing Cain. In the preview, we see that the person who is pointing a gun at Cain is wearing a green sleeve, very much like the clothing worn by the pilots and the mechanics. Also note that this is the same the type of outfit that Baltar gave to Pegasus' cylon, "Gina".

So who's on the other side of that gun?

Officers wear black, so all of Pegasus's officers can be eliminated. It could be Gina, but I doubt that she'll get out of the brig, and Baltar cannot free her without reprisals. Laird has a motive, but he is still on Galactica. Starbuck may hesitate because she agrees with Cain about returning to Caprica (and if Cain really does walk out of this episode their relationship would be, uh, "strained" if Starbuck shoved a gun in her face).

Therefore the only other plausible suspect is Stinger, Pegasus' former CAG (who Cain replaced with Starbuck). There is no civilian life on Pegasus, and it seems as if his position is the only thing keeping him sane. Logically, he'd be considerably upset.

So Stinger pulls a gun on Cain. Starbuck sees this as she's coming in and shoots Stinger, saving Cain's life.

At the end of the episode, Cain believes that she's won Starbuck over, but doesn't know that Starbuck was originally sent to kill her. Adama, however, won't understand why Starbuck didn't carry out her job.

And now it's out in the open that Cain tried to kill Adama. Since Adama has imprisoned Peg's XO (Jack) and some of their marines, he can force Cain to trade Tyrol and Helo's lives for the lives of her men.

Of course, this all assumes Cain lives.

.
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</speculation>

--j_k

[ January 10, 2006, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]
 
Posted by rCX (Member # 8503) on :
 
quote:
It would be a waste for Cain to die at the end of this episode as well, so I don't think she'll get shot either.
I agree. The writers probably feel that Cain is far too interesting to kill off with 8 more episodes left in the season. They are very fond of plot twists and it is very unlikely that the most obvious person (Starbuck) will be pointing the gun at Cain.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Holy moly.
Missed it Friday but saw it Monday.

GREAT episode.
Unless the machinery for Cylon rebirth is so big that the Resurrection Ship needs to be so huge I bet wasn't built just for following the RTF. I bet it was used for the attack on the 12 Colonies.

And what an interesting design. Almost looked like a cathedral. And also really fragil. No armour at all...just superstructure supports and glass on the inner area.

[ January 11, 2006, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Well... (probably a spoiler following - involves commercial scene)

On the promo for the next episode, the green cuff had bruised wrists. This leans me towards Gina, and not Boomer (who does, unfortunately, make a decent assassin... when not locked up). Quick video recon confirms the wrist brusing to be Gina's cuff-bruise pattern (the double-circle). In the same commercial, we see Gina holding a gun under her chin, most likely thanks to Baltar. If these conditions hold and Gina does get out of the brig, I'll be most interested to see how she gets to Cain - and when.

Sad day for Cain, I guess. Happy day for me.
 
Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
quote:
And what an interesting design. Almost looked like a cathedral. And also really fragil. No armour at all...just superstructure supports and glass on the inner area.
My exact thought, and I even have the building in mind that they may have based it off of: the Air Force Academy Chapel.

Look at some pics here: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Air_Force_Academy_Chapel.html

I can see this building from my house, by the way. It is really cool. But the moment I saw the Resurrection on BSG, I went "Hey! I've seen that before!"

Judge for yourself.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Whoa, uncanny.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Freaky! Yeah, that chapel looks almost the same!

As for Cain... yes she's a beeotch, but she also didn't point out anything against Adama that was actually incorrect. I see the Pegasus as what would happen when the RTF and it's new culture that is developing came in contact with the military of old.

Also it makes me wonder if this is not another Cylon plot. Remember the journalist from the previous episode was a Cylon...and the video she made was done to bring the people of the Fleet closer together. Then they lure the Pegasus to the RTF. Maybe they want to see what would happen when these two opposing cultures clashed.

The Pegasus' behavior to its fleet does not surprise me at all... in fact I would have been surpised if Cain did not strip the ships that had gathered around Pegasus. Pegasus is following the mode of thinking that Adama was going to do until Roslin convinced him otherwise. Convinced him to leave the Home System and flee. Pegasus is still working under the old directives. Attack and kill the enemy at all costs. Not realizing that the ONLY reason for fighting now resides in the 40 or so ships in the RTF. The 12 Colonies are dead...for the most part. The last of Humanity, the only reason for fighting, is in the Fleet.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Ann, I thought the same think when I saw the Resurrection Ship as well. [Smile]
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
Incredible episode. I really, really dug the scenes between Baltar and Gina, especially where she begs him to kill her. Awesome stuff.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Love the show, yadda yadda yadda. Unfortunately I am going out this friday and am going to miss the show on Sci-Fi.

When is it rebroadcast? Can you download the episode the day after or anything?
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Monday, 11 PM eastern time.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Sweet, thanks!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I got iTunes so I could download the episodes. [Blushing] They're available 24 hours after the show airs.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Yay! Tonight we see who dies, who stays alive, who disobeys whose orders...

11 hours to go! And that feels a lot better than saying "Two weeks."
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
[The Wave]
[The Wave]
[The Wave]
[The Wave]
[The Wave]


Only 7 more hours to go!!
 
Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
See the nice thing about living in Mountain time is I get to see it at 8 instead of waiting until 10. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Augh! Of all the times for my satellite to go out! It dropped literally at the climax of the episode! I am so not happy about this.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Well, reception returned in the last 5 minutes of the show, so I know how things turned out, but I have no idea how they happened. So, I've got questions.

SPOILERS
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Hope that's enough periods.
Why didn't the Pegasus' team assassinate Adama? Did Gina just get to her before she could give the code word or something? How did Gina get to her anyway. The last thing that I saw clearly involving her was Baltar telling her about getting two tickets when he went to the stadium. I assume that she got the gun from him, but how, exactly? And what else happened.

At the very end Anastasia was eavesdropping on Starbuck and Apollo's conversation. What's the story there? Is there a reason that I've missed why she'd have been doing that?
 
Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
At least on my TV, it replays at 11 (mountain time, 3 hours after original airing). I could tell you the answers, but it will be more satisfying to watch yourself.

SPOILERS


Except for the Anastasia thing. I didn't get that either. And I don't know why Lee wanted to die. I'm planning on watching it again myself, I got a phone call in the middle and maybe I missed something important.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I think Lee wanted to die because out in the middle of space was the first peace he had experienced in a long time. I think his "incident" is going to effect his character in profound ways.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
SPOILERS
:
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Yes, I think Lee is having a lot of problems, especially with the new problem/tense/whateverthing between him and his father. Might be that he's just emotionally overwhelmed.

And Dee listening outside? I haven't a clue. That was WEIRD.

Noemon, the P-Team didn't assasinate Adama because Caine never gave the coded order.

And Starbuck didn't kill Caine because Adama also didn't give HIS order.

Baltar gave her the gun after Gina killed a marine that went into the cell. Well, after Gina handed it to him and said that suicide is a sin. Baltar handed the gun back and said she needed justice. So Gina somehow got into Caine's quarters and was waiting for her.

Caine turns around, sees Gina and the pistol pointed at her. Caine says, "Frack. You."

Gina says, "You're not my type," and fires.

Gina escapes without anyone notices (it was pandelirium!)

Oh yeah, and Roslin made Adama an admiral. Jack has command of the Pegasus.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Thanks mack!
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
haven't seen the episode yet. sounds like a doozy.

aww.

I liked my theory. )-:

--j_k
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
Perhaps the writers see Dee as a possible character who would try and get father and son reconciled. She sees Adama as a father figure herself.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I could buy that.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Don't you remember the sexual tension between Lee and Dee when he was teaching combat techniques? Yeah, I don't like it either.

I am so waiting until 2 to see the rerun. I need to see this many more times and downloading it tomorrow night won't be enough!!

Spoilery high points (as of right now):


Jack. Love Jack. And it was Baltar's doing! Justice indeed. But where is Gina? On which ship, with which people, by what means is he concealing her? Is Six-in-Head gone? How is she going to respond to what he said? Or is she really just his subconscience? GAH!!!

I love this show.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I hope that Lee's encounter with space isn't going to turn him into a maudlin, I-wish-I-were-dead character. He's already too broody, I think. He could have that sort of character if Starbuck lightens up a bit.

But maybe my ignorance is showing. I haven't seen any of season 2 except the last two episodes, and am slowly working my way through season 1.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Oh, yeah, now that you mention it I do remember that, Carrie. Maybe I should have rewatched the first half of season 2 before they started showing the second.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I'm trying NOT to remember that scene. It made me squirm.
 
Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
Yes, I also thought it was pure yuck. Eech. Why'd they do that to us?
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
So, is Baltar having a "Smeagol" moment with both versions of Six? I argued with my bud who was over to see the show that his "sports" talk was in fact the REAL story. In his head, Six was the sports fan but in reality she was a creation of his psyche and he is NOW taking full responsibility for his actions in humanity's destruction and has "officially" chosen sides...not merely making decisions that make his life easier.

My friend argued the other way...that he is now "free" from choosing sides but that didn't make sense to me. Thoughts?

I think we will see Lee get back to his old self but it will be a while. He was thrown with, let's face it, THREE huge betrayals of trust. Kara was going to blindly follow the Old Man and kill and Admiral. His dad not only endorses but orders assassination and to top it off it was sanctioned and suggested by his maternal figure, Laura Roslyn. He has some brain teasing to go through for a bit. Instead of facing this he was content to let space suck him up. I don't think he is suicidal just confused.

On a technical note, the special effects folks in this episode have outdone themselves (which means a few skimpy episodes no doubt...but worth it). I was just in awe of the scenes with the two battlestars circling like old broadsides throwing ordinance like rain. It would have been beautiful on the big screen but really amazing for weekly television. Bravo.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
I like your idea for Baltar, fil. I'm not sure if it's right, but it would be one way for the writers to turn things around on us again, make us re-assess who is 'good' or 'bad'. Just like with Cain, really, as we saw a softer side of her with Kara, and with neither her nor Adama giving the go-ahead code.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
I am curious of BrainSix will make an appearance again or if we saw the last of her (for a while). They had her in the iconic red outfit (kind of her original look) that took us back to the beginning. The fact that both versions had completely opposite views of God's forgiveness might be his realization that Six in the Head was just his mind. Or maybe not. Gads, I don't know. Lots of food for thought, though. Any bets as to where he is keeping her? Who is in the least bit supportive of Cylons? Just keeping her in his stateroom won't be enough. My guess is that huge pleasure ship. I would assume he doesn't room on Colonial One permanently due to not wanting both he and the President to be on the ship in case it gets destroyed. The Pleasure ship seems to have a ton of room and no one probably knows what the Six model looks like, yet.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
There is a mention of 'Cylon sympathizers' in the descpription for the next episode, might have something to do with that...
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
I think this show is the best TV example of the bad choice versus the worse choice. There are so many instances where I have to think, "what would I do?" because most (but not all) shows don't make you question what to do because there's usually a way to make it right.

I like how it's developing. The miniseries was introductory. The first season was about watching the characters and the conflict develop. The second season has been more of that, but much more serious and difficult. I feel like I've been watching a five star film for 20+ hours, and I don't get tired of it because I love every episode. Or maybe it's better to compare it to a book, and each episode as a chapter, because the story doesn't end every episode. We just find a good stopping point. Those are my favorite kind of shows. I don't know why. I love short stories, too, it's just... something there isn't enough of?
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
Hmmm...would the ship's doctor be considered a "sympathizer?" Or merely humane? Hmmm...

I think next week's episode looks very interesting. Consider this show's lack of fear in including some current political subtext (oddly enough, without clearly picking a side) I have to wonder how much of the show's view of the abortion debate will be Colonial Fleet specific or have enough generalities to make it a universal discussion, via a cool melodrama of course. Not many, if any, mainstream shows deal with this topic and I wonder if this is the first sci fi show to deal with it head on.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
a few of us were chatting about this show last night (xnera was watching the episode for the first time off iTunes) and about how the Pegasus and the Galactica view the Cylons differently. I was trying to explain to Tick about how while the Galactica still viewed the Cylons as the enemy, they (and the Fleet) seemed to have changed their view on them from toasters to...ramen. And while Galactica has made that shift, the Pegasus still views them as varelse.

They're not just toasters. Not anymore. I mean, they even talked about the Cylons having souls. Did anyone else see the bodies flying out of the Resurrection Ship when they finally blew it up?

That bothered me. And I remembered Six's words, "Tens of thousands of Cylons are going to die."

Adama's conversation with Boomer was intense. It's a question, it think, that so many of us have been wondering. Why the hell do the Cylons hate the humans so much?

An article came out recently that listed Ron Moore's top five favorite sci-fi stories, one of them was I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream, by Harlan Ellison. If you haven't read it, well, go read it right now.

I think there's some influence there, in the way at AM hates the humans. At one point, the main character is trying to figure out why AM hates the humans so much:

quote:
We had given AM sentience. Inadvertently, of course, but sentience nonetheless. But it had been trapped. AM wasn’t God, he was a machine. We had created him to think, but there was nothing it could do with that creativity. In rage, in frenzy, the machine had killed the human race, almost all of us, and still it was trapped. AM could not wander, AM could not wonder, AM could not belong. He could merely be. And so, with the innate loathing that all machines had always held for the weak, soft creatures who had built them, he had sought revenge.
But the Cylons have managed to get themselves bodies. Not machine bodies, but biological ones. It seems that while they're programmed, they've got souls. I mean, Six saying that all those Cylons were going to die, was that the first time she'd said something like that? The first time she'd tried to stop Baltar from doing something that would harm the Cylons?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Congratuations Admiral Adama. [Wave] (closest thing to salute) or maybe just :salute: will do.

Hey I found something funny Admiral Adama has the initials AA, double A batteries anyone?

Aside from that; It may be the Medical Docter or maybe some person in the civilian fleet who owes a favor.

But that was another big plot twist, the 2 fleets not killing each other, wow thats it, I'm going to barth with all these twists and turns I can't believe I hadn't done it already I'm absolutely giddy.

The Cylons aren't a conventional enemy, they don't want land, wealth or power. They're a fundamenalist enemy, they believe that they are G-d's Chosen and that it is their holy mission to launch a great Crusade to Purge the Galaxy of Humanity and Human influence forever. They might as well be varelse in that case for their is no reasoning with fundamenalist zealots, only the sword, they live by the sword and they must die by that sword. As with crusades throughout history we all know that a Crusade only ended when they were finally and irrevokically defeated and knew no choice but to withdraw and wither and die for an empire based on blood, tears and folly cannot stand.

Individual Cylons like Sharon while equally religious are not hateful of humanity but hateful of themselves for not being human and would do anything to become human. So what I think what this was was possibly begun as an attempt at diversity.

Think of it, how intelligent were the older Cylons? Intelligent enough to understand trial and error, to construct ships and conduct research, but basic intuitivity? Genius? Do they have the ability in the older models to act on "gut feelings"? What I think it is, was that some central collective Cylon intelligence decided to construct a new generation of Cylons, Cylons who could think for themselves and possess a level of free will equal to even the most independant of humans.

This would allow a tactical flexibility in the battlefield that I 100% doubt they had before and with key "officers" of human Cylons could command just as well and possibly better then any human equivilent. Prototype BioCylons PBC's could also if designed with different features could easily access a ships computer system or a building's system and reprogram it in minutes, so instead of having to cut your wrists a Cylon designed differently could just plug themselves in Matrix style.

But what I think happened is that something went wrong, here's what I've been thinking of: You had Generation 1, highly successful but here you learn where individuallity can take you, maybe "they" found that the PBCGENI was too unwieldy, too uncontrollable and prone to making decisions that did not kowtow to the party line so to speak and discarded them, took a step back, and made a decision. AFter studying "human" (12 Colonies) history and found how religion works and how individuals even possessing the ability to think for themselves and question their surroundings will willingly accept the greatest and most blantant of lies, religion, and it considers human religions as lies but decides and to create one for PBCGEN2 make it accept it as truth that "they" are G-d and they the Cylons are on a mission to purify the galaxy of humanity. GEN2 believes this for they are far more human then we'ld think, and accepting this mission GEN2 plans and plots and schemes and eventually places themselves in key positions inwhich the success of the Crusade hinges on.

But like Humans, the Cylons begin to have second thoughts and like humans begin to question themselves. And the plan we see is beginning to backfire. We see Sharon falling in love, even the new 6 may fall in love with Gaius.

Another thing is that G-d wants this new generation of Cylons to replace humanity, to become an alter to their greatness. by replacing humanity they would've gotten their revenge, so some humans are needed to procreate and maybe they will maybe the wont.

But the thing is, even if they amnaged to wipe out the Colonies and hunt down every last and remaining Battlestar and runaway Human ship and manage to procreate and create their new protohumanity....

There's still Earth, they fear Earth I can tell, Earth is a legend to the Colonies but the Humans do not doubt its existence and fear it because what happens if the Humans on Earth are even more advance then the humans in the 12? What happens if they Earthers find the 12 Colonies, find out what the Cylons did and get their own revenge? The Cylons cannot take the risk, so while they seem to be attacking the Battlestars they are also following them, allowing the Humans to find Earth for them so that the Cylons can whipe out Humanity once AND for all.

But as well all know the Cylons will come to Earth find out that we watch reality TV and give up in disgust.

Joking aside I REALLY REALLY REAAAAAAALY hope that this time around Earth won't be 2006 Earth and barely reaching the moon. [Roll Eyes] The older series had it where BSG reached Earth but it was the 70's. Horrible, absolutely horrible. I want them to come to Earth, and we become the ones who save their Colonial But and kick some Cylon ass all the way back to the 12 Colonies!
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
The problem with an advanced earth, is that it would be at risk from the Cylons...I would say it would be likely that an advanced society would be very dependent on networks and wireless communication. This is the sort of thing that Cylons can easily get into. Unless they try to say that earth has better encryption...but it the way they describe cylons, it seems that it would be tough for any encryption to keep them out.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I kinda forgot about that but nevertheless, the risk is still there, what happens if that isolated branch of humanity is SOOOOO advance that they can keep the Cylons out? But even if not, it can still be theorized that the Earthers can learn just as quickly to adapt to dismantling their military and essential networks, and this time its entirely possible that the Cylons wouldnt be able to whip out all of our defences in a single go.

The Cylons could theorize all they like but the Cylon G-d is probly still a rather cunning and intelligent but still a mechanical being, essentially a super sized calculator and decided that logically there's a risk however minor that the last remnant of Humanity just might carry the day and that is a risk that to a being that is trying to become a G-d simply cannot handle, its like Achilles, it simple cannot accept the possibility that someone else out there may be out there that can defeat it, that can make its best efforts look weak and puny.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
What if Earth is where the Cylons are coming from?? [Big Grin] We only know that the Cylons left...never to return, even for the yearly meetings at that neutral station. I don't think they writers know where Earth is or what it looks like at this point (or if they will reach it). There was some ideas that earth would be in the distant past and it is the Colonial Gods that get adapted into the Terrestrial versions. As long as it isn't 1980, I am fine with that. I doubt they will find Earth as we know it, though.

I will stick with my Cylon/Earth theory. Some Cylons (the human ones) said they are doing this because if they didn't, humanity would reach out and crush them in the end. They always do. "This has happened before."

I wonder if they will be turning back, if only temporarily. Caine wanted to go back and fight. It seems two Battlestars with their computers de-linked put up quite a fight against superior odds. The only reason the Colonies lost was that they were compromised from within. It wasn't overwhelming amounts of ships. Two raiders can take out an entire fleet when they can simply hack the ships and shut them off. I kind of hope they don't go back for too long (long enough to know they can't stay, maybe) but we will have to see.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
While interesting as your theory is its almost completely baseless if you look at the evidence provided by the show, my theory I came up with based on the rational that machines intelligent enough can make more machines but can improve them. I doubt they came from Earth but more likely that they are afriad of the possibility that whats left of humanity can and will crush the Cylons in revenge.

But who knows maybe the writters will supply more evidence as time goes on to either prove or disprove my theory.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I think Cylons do have souls.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Probly, life is life, they're more then the sum of their parts there is something that sets them as individuals. Even having only 12 different models doesnt automatically make it 12 different personalities, we can all agree that the 2 sharons were undoubtably different. The Caprica Sharon had a far greater willpower and was willing to make tremendus risks, the BSG Sharon I think was very indecisive and didn't have the willpower at times to fully reist the Cylon secret programming.

Also then you have the 2 6's each with a different view on forgiveness.
 
Posted by Angiomorphism (Member # 8184) on :
 
i just started watching BG, and i'm a little unclear as to where we are exactly in season 2... i just downloaded the 12th episode, and it was fantastic! but i haven't completely seen the episodes before that, and it takes forever sometimes to download them. i'm in canada, so can anyone tell me when it's on and where it's at?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
season 2 episode 12. 13 isnt out yet, I suggest getting all of the previuos episodes.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Yeah, I was a little skeptical when they actually destroyed one of the cylon base stars. I mean, if you can destroy base stars that easily, why the heck have you been running all this time?

Angio, I'm in Canada as well. It airs on Space a week later than in the U.S. I think it's Friday nights, but it might be Saturday.

While I don't think cylons have souls, I also don't think humans have souls. I do think that the organic cylons are not substantively different from humans in their ability to feel genuine emotion, but I also think that since they were presumably grown and then raised by mechanical cylons, their emotional development is probably stunted or at least warped.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
Yeah, I was a little skeptical when they actually destroyed one of the cylon base stars. I mean, if you can destroy base stars that easily, why the heck have you been running all this time?

That one got me as well. I thought they said that a Battlestar alone was no match for the Cylon Basestars.

I know some folks were wondering how Number Six could find Cain's quarters, remember she lived on the ship for a while before she went off on the crew. As for how she got in the room, remember what Sharon could do to the Cylon attack force just by jamming a fiber cable in her arm. [Wink]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Umm..... if I remember correctly, nearly all of the Cylon raiders were chasing the mining ships, a Base star is like a heavily armed carrier, but without its CAG its useless.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
I remember seeing base stars launching dozens of missiles in previous battle scenes. I mean, if all they needed was a little diversion to take out the base stars, why didn't they do that a season ago and destroy the whole cylon fleet? [Razz]

Added: I'm exaggerating with that last bit, of course, but destroying the base star as a bonus when they were really just trying to hold them off long enough to hit the resurrection ship was a stretch for me.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
The reason the Colonial Fleet was destroyed so quickly had nothing to do with Basestars and amounts of ships. It was the lax attitude of the fleet that allowed the Cylons to send their virus programs in and shut off all opposition. I think if all the Battlestars were still as de-linked as the Galactica (and now the Pegasus, I would assume) then it would have been a shorter mini-series. By the time Galactica was re-armed, it was too late to do any good (it was nearly a museum ship by that point).

Now that they have two fully functional Battlestars with so far full load outs they are now actually a fairly formidable group. Also, recall that the plans for the battle included distractions from the civilian fleet which was to draw off a large part of the ships. It was a neat plan but we only saw a wee bit of it (but a glorious bit at that).

My thought now is to whether they will go back en force to Caprica and other Colonies. It could potentially be bad for the show to do this...to essentially go back to square one. But this would be a good way to get rid of one Battlestar, eventually.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
I wonder if the Cylons couldn't conceive of the attack being aimed at the Resurrection Ship instead of the Basestars, and being thrown into a bit of chaos once they realized it.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
They've engaged the basestars since then, though, fil, and every time they wound up having to run. Granted, there were two battlestars this time, but there were also two basestars.

*shrug* Maybe if they'd shown more of the battle (by making it a three-parter rather than a two-parter) I would have bought it. I couldn't suspend my disbelief and they didn't do anything to help me suspend it.

Actually, I think they tried to cram a bit much into one episode there. The whole battle, the thing with Lee, the double assassination and calling them off, the stuff with Helo and the Chief, and then Gina and Baltar... a little more focus would have been good, I think. I'm not sure how I'd do that, but I'm an engineer, not a director. [Razz]
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
The battlestars used focus fire. That is, They both hit the same Basestar, till it was destroyed, then switched to the other. IIRC the basestars didn't.

Anyone who's played an MMORPG or an RTS knows how effective this is =)

Pix
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Any such person also knows that the minute you focus fire, even the basic scripted AI used in today's games retreats the affected unit when it's in danger of death. [Wink]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Not in any of the games I've played IE: Homeworld which is mighty similar to BSG.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
StarCraft is the most obvious example.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Even so, it still works in video games. Who knows whether or not the principle applies in reality.. or fictional TV space combat.
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
I was under the impression that the Galactica had never really asaulted the basestars, rather it's number one objective was to protect the civilian fleet. I would imagine that had the Galactica been trying to actively attack the basestars, then it could have done some serious damage. Now that there are two battlestars both actively trying to destroy the basestars, we see the ships' true offensive potential.
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
This is the first time I've ever been caught up on the show. Some thoughts:

This is some of the best science fiction I've seen in my life. Thank you, mack, for getting me to watch it.

Admiral Caine is scary. Freaky scary. And I can't figure out if I'm more scared of her when she's on screen or when her crew is. Michelle Forbes did a great job.

I still can't get used to them calling the biological cylons "machines" when they clearly aren't. It seems forced and fake.

I thought it was kinda cheap and Disney the way they killed off Caine without any of our heros getting their hands bloody.

The parts with Gaius Balthar and MindSix are by far my least favorite part of the show. You could cut it all out and I would not mind.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I used to dislike the Gaius MindSix interaction, but it's grown on me.

Probably like some sort of toxic mold, but now it makes me giggle.
 
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I've always found Gaius interesting in a sick sort of way. [Smile]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I've always found Gaius hot in a sick sort of way... [Wink]
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
quote:
They've engaged the basestars since then, though, fil, and every time they wound up having to run. Granted, there were two battlestars this time, but there were also two basestars.
I think that part of the sucess this time was based on the fact that

SPOILER

.
.
.
.


Sharon knocked out so many of their fighters. I assume that they are able to manufacture more, but the Raider cover seemed really thin, this time.

.
.
.
.

/SPOILER

quote:
*shrug* Maybe if they'd shown more of the battle (by making it a three-parter rather than a two-parter) I would have bought it. I couldn't suspend my disbelief and they didn't do anything to help me suspend it.

Actually, I think they tried to cram a bit much into one episode there. The whole battle, the thing with Lee, the double assassination and calling them off, the stuff with Helo and the Chief, and then Gina and Baltar... a little more focus would have been good, I think. I'm not sure how I'd do that, but I'm an engineer, not a director.

In the podcast, RM actually mentions that Resurrection Ship was a single episode, that had to be expanded to fit all the stuff that was going on. I was looking forward to seeing more of the battle, but in his words all you really need to know there is that it happened.

It was interetsing seeing it from a new perspective, though. Effects were great, as always.

--j_k
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
It didn't bother me not seeming more of the battle. In fact, I didn't even notice that there wasn't much of it there -- I was too focued on what was happening with Starbuck/Lee/Adama/Cain/Cain's XO, Helo, Chief, etc..
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
I was catching up on the show Prison Break and saw Michelle Forbes in and thought "It's Admiral Cain!" instead of "It's Ro Laren!" [Smile]
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
hahahahahaha
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Her role as Caine was so much more memorable than as Laren.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
OMG its the same actress??

Wow, never would of guessed.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
She was also in 24, season 2.
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
I haven't gotten around to seeing 24 yet.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Mac, in thinking that cylons have souls, do you think they have free will?

I finished watching season 1 last night, and that's what I began wondering. Sharon was clearly fighting her programming. *spoiler* Yet she still shot Adama without hesitation. The look on her face afterward was really interesting. So do cylons have free will? And if not, who decides their programming? Someone must.

I have to go out and buy season 2 so I can catch up.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I think Sharon is gaining her free will, sort of like an evolution. Unlike the other models, she knows what she wants to do in regards to her life, and it doesn't seem to follow her programming anymore. The shooting of Adama occurred earlier AND that was a different model. The Boomer we've got now is from Caprica and that model seems even more evolved in terms of free will than the Galactica model. Does that make sense?

But it is the same soul.

You've got to watch Season 2!
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Mack -- are you saying that there are precisely twelve cylon souls?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
If you take the concept of "aquas" or however its spelt from Children of Mind and Xenocide, theres a soul for each cylon even the little drones. The difference, is that there are 12 BIG cylon souls/intelligences that can replace or supercede the other cylon souls because they're higher up in the heiarchy so to speak.

No what we dont know if the new boomer is the original soul or a lesser version of it, not nessasarily the same.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
*eyes cross* I am not sure what Blayne's post is saying, sorry.

In any case, why wouldn't each copy have a different soul? Like identical twins have their own souls.

Didn't one of the Six's say that the Sharons are often weak?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Than obvyously wee half a failure 2 communicate h3re, wut eye said was goodly intelligible and smart seeming, so there.

*edit to add spelling errors, sorry folks I wasn't paying attention [Frown] *

[ January 21, 2006, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Blayne, you forgot to misspell anything in that post. You might want to edit. [Wink]
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
mph, I'm not exactly sure what I'm saying yet.

and holy frack, Roslin's got balls!
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
another great episode tonight. the way they kept Roslin alive was an absolute stroke of genius. fantastic, just fantastic. one of the greatest shows of all time
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
At first, I didn't recognize what was in the case at the end of last night's episode. Then I remembered what was mentioned, and I was like "Oh man, he wouldn't give them that, would he?!" Sure enough though, he did.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I'm not utterly sure I buy Baltar's turnaround though. I mean, yes, I understand the hurt and humiliation that he feels at Roslin's letter, and I'm well aware of the impact that that kind of thing can have on a person. It's a bit like when Gollum is accused of lying when he's actually telling the truth, or instances in which Calvin (in the Alvin Maker series) actually does good and is met with suspicion by Alvin. I just don't quite buy his giving Gina that device. Seems like a bit too much, somehow.

Anyone else curious about other, as yet undiscovered effects that the fetus' blood may have in Roslin?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
The promotion to Admiral was great, was Adama ever promoted in the original BSG? Also it gives him the authority to deal with the Pegasus commander should he cause problems.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
It also allowed Adama to correct the things done by the Admiral, by moving Starbuck and Apollo back to Galactica and reinstating Apollo as Galactica's CAG (or whatever). It made sense.
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
quote:
I'm not utterly sure I buy Baltar's turnaround though.
It's not much of a turnaround. Except for the actions in this lone episode, he's been an enemy of the human forces from the beginning, and this action is not out of character.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
I don't think Baltar is the enemy of the human forces...he is just strictly pro-Baltar. He is smart enough to realize that if the humans die, he dies with them. He acted out of pure self-preservation. He didn't save Laura because he liked her or thought she should live. He saved her because he didn't feel he had the stuff to be President (or didn't want to be bothered by being President). He patted himself on the back but Laura's letter told him the exact reasons he does things and he hated that she knew that. He has acted in ways that have benefited humans as well as Cylons with little regard for their consequences as long as he is still standing when the dust clears.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
It seems he and Boomer are a lot alike.
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
quote:
I don't think Baltar is the enemy of the human forces...he is just strictly pro-Baltar.
I think he is both.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
On a non-season 2 note, I passed the Battlestar Galactica Season 1 DVD set while shopping for groceries at Wal-Mart. I was quite tempted to pick it up, but I couldn't justify the $45 purchase. That's me for you though. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
I should gather up my courage and start watching this show again...
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Try to get your hands on the mini-series. Once you watch that, you won't be able to resist it anymore. [Smile]
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Try to get your hands on the mini-series. Once you watch that, you won't be able to resist it anymore. [Smile]
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I saw the miniseries after I'd seen the first season, and while I expected to be blown away by it, it didn't do all that much for me. I'd second Porter's suggestion that you start there (because, you know, that's the beginning of the story and all), but I'd add that if it doesn't leave you hopelessly addicted it's still worth your while to watch the first season.
 
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
Oh, I've seen the miniseries and all of the first season, but I had to stop because I found the intensity of the show overwhelming. I really think it's an excellent show, but I tend to get involved a little too much in on screen things and if they are as horrible and as frightening as BSG, I have to take a break!
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I guess you did say "again", didn't you? I missed that.

Yeah, it definitely is an intense show. I've rarely had a show manage to keep me on the edge of my seat so consistently.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Well I've caught up on all of season 2 (and got a synopsis of the miniseries and season 1) thanks to Amanecer. So it's not like I'm not hooked already.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Baltar pissed me off giving a nuke to Gina. I'm glad the Cylon baby is ok. The whole peace movement is interesting, but what can 1 nuke do? All they could hope for is to put it on galactica but that would only insure their destruction.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
They were actually losing me the first season because I thought the show was becoming more exhibitionist than interesting. However, they redeamed themself in the second season and I am hooked by all the potentials.

I don't think even Baltar knows Blayne. He has been programmed and prioritized by the Cylons. I consider him the first Human-Cylon hybrid who is too weak a human to fight against his mental tormentor.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
It's not much of a peace movement when they used terrorism. The whole thing seems so illogical. The Cylons broke the peace, the Cylons are hunting them down still. And then they're (the peace movement) crippling their own survival?

It doesn't make sense.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
What a great show. [Smile]
*bounces*

As for this misnamed "peace movement"...they are nothing but traitors. They aren't a party or even a political movement. They are trying to bring about the extinction of the Human race.

They say they "why fight the war??"

Well honey, Governemnt offered the Cylons a complete and unconditional surrender and they still nuked away till 50 billion people were dead.

The last survivors didn't fight...they RAN. And the Cylons chased them.
 
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
quote:
Well honey, Governemnt offered the Cylons a complete and unconditional surrender and they still nuked away till 50 billion people were dead.
Yeah.... You'd think this would be *totally* obvious. Didn't they watch how the original BSG TV show started? [Wink]

quote:
quote:
I don't think Baltar is the enemy of the human forces...he is just strictly pro-Baltar.
I think he is both.
I think he is not the intentional enemy of the human forces (like the Cylons are) but rather by being a pure survivalist (and a prideful, self-deceiving one at that) he is incidentally the enemy of the human forces.

His apathy for the good of society is detremental to it in these delicate times, whereas in prosperous, peaceful times the harmful consequences would be rather limited.

This is why I don't "get" him giving a nuke to the Cylon/peacekeeper group. He doesn't seem like a particularly vengeful or hateful person. Where is the self-preservation in it? The promise to be the one human saved by the Cylons?

quote:
but I tend to get involved a little too much in on screen things and if they are as horrible and as frightening as BSG, I have to take a break!
This sort of reaction made it hard for me to enjoy Firefly and Serenity as much as Porter did. [Smile]

Did anyone else find the "Cylon/human fetuses cure cancer!" thing a bit hokey?
 
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
quote:
Well honey, Governemnt offered the Cylons a complete and unconditional surrender and they still nuked away till 50 billion people were dead.
Yeah.... You'd think this would be *totally* obvious. Didn't they watch how the original BSG TV show started? [Wink]

quote:
quote:
I don't think Baltar is the enemy of the human forces...he is just strictly pro-Baltar.
I think he is both.
I think he is not the intentional enemy of the human forces (like the Cylons are) but rather by being a pure survivalist (and a prideful, self-deceiving one at that) he is incidentally the enemy of the human forces.

His apathy for the good of society is detremental to it in these delicate times, whereas in prosperous, peaceful times the harmful consequences would be rather limited.

This is why I don't "get" him giving a nuke to the Cylon/peacekeeper group. He doesn't seem like a particularly vengeful or hateful person. Where is the self-preservation in it? The promise to be the one human saved by the Cylons?

quote:
but I tend to get involved a little too much in on screen things and if they are as horrible and as frightening as BSG, I have to take a break!
This sort of reaction made it hard for me to enjoy Firefly and Serenity as much as Porter did. [Smile]

Did anyone else find the "Cylon/human fetuses cure cancer!" thing a bit hokey?

quote:
He has been programmed and prioritized by the Cylons. I consider him the first Human-Cylon hybrid who is too weak a human to fight against his mental tormentor.
Ooo, now *this* is a fascinating idea. Baltar is at least a bit Cylon himself? Hmmmm.
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
quote:
Did anyone else find the "Cylon/human fetuses cure cancer!" thing a bit hokey?
They are the ultimate stem cells.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm super-excited for the next episode. As the promo commercial says, "The Redemption of Apollo."

WOO!!

(PS - I'm in love with Apollo, in case you couldn't tell. My favourite episode [so far] is still "The Hand of God.")
 
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
 
On one of the fan boards, they are calling the cancer-curing Cylon fetus Fetus ex Machina tm.

Hee!
 
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
Heh. [Cool]
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
quote:
Did anyone else find the "Cylon/human fetuses cure cancer!" thing a bit hokey?
I'll admit that I did. While RM seems to have a plan for how he wants the show to unfold, but this felt like one of those times where the writers thought "Oh no, we can't let the main character die... let's fix that in a single episode," and did-- especially since it was previously stated that the leader that Roslin represents would not see the promised land of Earth. It throws everything into question.

--j_k
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
MUSIC.

Specifically the music cue of that eerily Earth sounding song...because it is a real Earth song!

I'm talking about the Irish song first heard in "Hand of God" and has been used over and over again, sometimes in subtle ways like when Adama and Apollo reunite on Kobol, sometimes in much grander ways like when they show the President the completed Black Bird or when Adama makes the decision to go back to Kobol to unite the fleet again.

I see this music as some of the most beautiful and poignant in the whole show... and it iluminates for me several things: the bonds of family and friends, the glory of the Human Race (warts and all), survival, forgiveness, a longing for a home that is lost forever, and that even though so much has been lost where there is life there is hope.

I hope that if they ever find Earth they play this song at the end.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Telp: That particular piece is called "Wander my Friends," by Bear McCreary. That melody appears earlier in the show, too, when Adama gives Lee his lighter (that version is called "A Good Lighter").

Some more stuff by McCreary:

The piece from KLG-2 (Six and Baltar in the Opera House) is called "The Shape of Things To Come."

The song at the end of Pegasus ("I'm getting my men") is called "Prelude to War."

Six's theme: "Number Six Appears."

* * *

The piece that Starbuck plays on the radio in her apartment is "Metamorphosis One," by Phillip Glass. They've got to be online somewhere...

--j_k

[edit: here. Scroll down, or do a pagesearch for "A Good Lighter" --j_k ]

[ January 23, 2006, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]
 
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
We were in a metalic elevator the other day and Porter knocked on the walls. It sounded very much like the "clanking" in the Cylon music theme. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Yay! Limewire is pretty sweet. [Cool]
 
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
 
Blayne: they're $2 an episode! Just buy the darn things!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
And, uh, Limewire isn't all that sweet.
 
Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
 
I think the Cylon blood is going to change Roslyn. After the siezure was over and she was aware and looking around, I thought she seemed to be looking past Baltar at something frightening or unexpected. I was expecting them to show us that she could now see MentalSix standing beside Baltar.

In her flashbacks, she did keep seeing Baltar and Six together back on Caprica. That has to lead somewhere.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I second fugu. Blayne, buy the damn episodes. They're cheap.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Two more episodes to season 2.0 to go then I'm totally caught up. [Big Grin]

I watched the episode with Lucy Lawless last night. This is SUCH a frackin good show. SO...we know what 6 of the 12 models look like now, right? Or have I miscounted?
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
I'm still holding out hope that curing the cancer is only the beginning. Every medicine has side effects, right? What's the side effect of injecting someone with blood that doesn't match their species let alone their blood type?

I'm in love with the new commercial with the baby, btw. I was so glad to see Helo step up and try to stop Adama. After some of the conversations he and the Chief had (and I still don't believe Chief is anywhere near over Sharon) it was nice to see him step up and publicly announce his devotion to his child.
 
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I didn't think she was looking past Baltar as much as it was sinking in: "YOU! You were with that Cylon from the begining! You *knew*!"

Now that she will live, Baltar has to deal with some of his dirty little secrets being known. Or he can miraculously escape scott-free like he has been up till now.
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Huh. I never recognized the journalist as Lucy Lawless.

quote:
Or he can miraculously escape scott-free like he has been up till now.
I have no doubt that this will happen and that I will continue to be bored by the Baltar "plot".
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Porter, I wouldn't have either, except I was watching it on DVD and the last line in the synopsis of the episode is that Lucy Lawless gueststars as D'Anna.

I'm with you, bev. Ross (my hubby) wondered aloud if she was going to remember her illness-dreams. Seemed to me with that glance that the answer is a definitive Yes. I'm looking forward to seeing how Baltar weasles out of this one. The man has teflon skin.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jeniwren:
Two more episodes to season 2.0 to go then I'm totally caught up. [Big Grin]

I watched the episode with Lucy Lawless last night. This is SUCH a frackin good show. SO...we know what 6 of the 12 models look like now, right? Or have I miscounted?

Yes. They are...

SPOILERS!

Six, Boomer, Leoben, Doral, Simon, and D'Anna.

Oh, and Dee. (Just kidding, I just really want her to be one [Wink] )
 
Posted by just_me (Member # 3302) on :
 
quote:
Oh, and Dee. (Just kidding, I just really want her to be one )
At least you think you're kidding [Evil Laugh]
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I don't think I'd be all that surprised if she turned out to be one. However, if she turns into an agent like Boomer1 I'm going to be very unhappy.

On a side note... what's with her standing outside Lee's door when he was talking with Starbuck at the end of the episode 2 eps ago?
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
I don't think I'd be all that surprised if she turned out to be one. However, if she turns into an agent like Boomer1 I'm going to be very unhappy.

Why the difference?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Did anyone see that they are making Battlestar Galactica Minimates figures (both from the old series and the current series)? I'm so excited about it for some reason. *such a toy geek*
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
If she is a Cylon she would be one of the "Wise men" so to speak, you see its hard to explain but I've been doing alot of thinking (cuz Ive never had a show that so involved me in its plot before) as I usually do sometimes with other TV shows is play around with it but BSG more then anything and I imagined that say that I am correct and there was a generation 1 that was made but was defected for being "too human" whats the possibility that Dee if a Cylon is actually one of these defects and instead of trying to undercut humanity at every turn is instead trying to watch and learn from humanity and help it along. IF its possible I'ld think it'ld add additional plot lines later on.

But ya, the reason why I say this is because as I theorized before, logically you build a prototype and then mass produce but as with military hardware there's often many prototypes, the T-98/99 MBT had some 40 Prototypes before it was agreed by PLA high Command to mass produce them for service. For these Cylon models with a wide range of utility there would be more then one and if it was decided to despose of them its also possibly that at least ONE can escape to humanity and pass itself off as human and make its way in a position inwhich it can help humanity from the Cylon threat though probly has no actual idea as to what the threat is depending at what stage the project was at and the knowledge bestowed upon the Cylons.

The actual information given I think is pretty limited depending on the mission, and as with no. 6 we know that she was only given enough info to do her job and no more. The Cylons entering the depot probly were far higher up and knew far more. We also know that more then 1 can be activated at the same time as with the multiple sharons experiance one on Caprica, 1 on BSG and several on the Basestar. In fact some of the Cylons are probly intelligent enough to be able to plan out ops probly and act as think tanks.

But back to Dee, Dee has been such a supprting character giving "advice" as needed and helping the others is that it could feasibly add credibility to the theory though only circumstantial.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
no one wants to comment?
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:

On a side note... what's with her standing outside Lee's door when he was talking with Starbuck at the end of the episode 2 eps ago?

See Carrie's post at the top of page 5.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I dunno, I get the feeling that Six is the one In Charge.

...maybe it's the red dress.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I don't think I've said this here... before... but alright:

I was watching "Litmus" (1.06) the other day, and there was an interaction between Gaius and Six that caught my eye. I'll paraphrase until I absolutely need to quote (does that two-line-unless-copyrighted-lyric thing apply here? I'm going to avoid it anyway).

(Gaius has just left Starbuck, who asked him what he thought about the idea that the Cylon suicide bomber was heading for him. He, being the self-absorbed idiot he is, obviously hadn't thought this far ahead and left in a hurry.)

Gaius: Why are they (the Cylons) trying to kill me?

Six: Not you, your work. You're an added bonus.
quote:
Baltar: Why are they trying to blow me up? You're the one that told me what to do in the first place. I wouldn't even be making this flipping Cylon detector if it wasn't for you.

#6: But I'm just in your head, Gaius. They don't know about me, or us, or our life together.

Baltar: How romantic.

(Full transcript here)

Am I interpreting this correctly? Do the rest of the Cylons really NOT KNOW about head-Six? Is Gaius really and truly nuts? Or is this just a gigantic mind-frack? Thoughts?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
So, how about that episode, huh? Commander of Pegasus killed, illegal black market stuff (including prostitution), and all sorts of stuff. It was a fairly interesting episode. I'm looking forward to next week's episode though, which seems centered around Starbuck.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I really liked it. I liked the background given about Lee - which was something we'd been missing. And I was not surprised in the slightest that he made the choices he did, which I think is a credit to the show's character development.

I need to say this as well: Dee = Bad. I cannot begin to fathom anytning she does! "Is this going anywhere?" This nonexistent "thing" is going NOWHERE. Gah!

Jamie Bamber is not only the most attractive man on television, he's also one of the most talented. Hooray for him. Except his looking at Dee.

I missed Starbuck, but only a little. I don't know what she would have added to the episode. I did, however, notice that the ex-girlfriend back on Caprica (or wherever) looked slightly like her... And the promo scene of her slapping Lee is going to be awesome.

Yay rambling. I'm waiting until the rerun, so I'll try to gather coherent thoughts until then.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
That scene where Dee asked him if the nonexistant whatever was going anywhere, that made me SQUIRM.

The talk between the Adama men at the end was interesting. Short, succinct, and I had to ask Nathan to man-translate.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
I need to watch it again, and then I need some translating too.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
What was the translation?
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
Translation: I'm your father, you are my son. We are both men.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
Dee = Bad. I cannot begin to fathom anytning she does! "Is this going anywhere?" This nonexistent "thing" is going NOWHERE. Gah!
I really like Dee's character. While I did not like the Dee/Adama sexual tension, I loved that she brought it to the surface so that it could be dealt with. The scene with her and Billy exercising and then seeing Adama in the corner of her eye, says to me that she's made her decision and she's sticking with Billy. I think the "thing" with Dee helped us see that Apollo was considering other options than Starbuck. Without that, the prostitute thing would have seemed less believable to me.

I was unimpressed with the scene where the President asked Baltar to resign. The whole "This is a one time offer" thing seemed off. She knows he's associated with the Cyclons somehow and wants him out of power. What benefit is there to making it a one time offer?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I don't know. Maybe it's a keep your friends close, but your enemies closer type thing. She gave him an out, a chance to escape. Now though he's stuck in that position, and she'll have her eye on him.
 
Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
I think it means she was giving him a chance to go quietly, but since he refused she's gonna bring out her big guns.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
question: Did anyone else think that this one felt very much like film noir?

--j_k
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
A bit. I was actually quite peeved that they did the whole "48 Hours Earlier" bit again. What, is that a Lee-episode thing? Spare me!
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Even the creator thought this was the weakest episode of BSG...
But, it's a learning tool if nothing else. [Smile]

My prediction is that Pegasus will be destroyed in the season finale and Baltar will join the Cylon fleet.
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
A lot of great stuff tonight. However, I still have two complaints.

1. Why do writers think their story is more suspenseful if they tell it in flashbacks? If you have to remind me where I am in the story, there's a problem. Just tell it all the way through from beginning to end already.

2. The whole Anders subplot irks me. The Kara-Lee relationship was weird enough when I got the feeling that on some level she was replacing the dead brother. Throwing a less attractive Lee look-a-like in to the mix was just not a good call, IMHO. But then, most crappy writers feel the need for the guy and girl to not hook up in stupid ways to keep the supposed tension. After a while, it's not tense. It's trite.

A couple things I liked. First, the shots of the back of Starbuck's head against the fight footage. It sounds horrid on paper, but watching it really worked for me. Second, the scene at the end with her and Helo. After the important chat, they had a nice moment where they actually seemed like friends who'd known each other a while. That moment was worth more tome than the whole suicide run dogfight bit.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Helo tapped out. Bwahahahha. [Smile]

For a person who has serious attachment issues, Starbuck sure latched onto Anders pretty quick. Bothers me.

And for some reason, Cat was pissing me off. I think because Starbuck was vulnerable somehow and she was tearing into her.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I can see why she latched on to Anders though. A lot of shit happened to her on Caprica.

Cat was seriously pissing me off in this episode as well too. Arrogant little prick. I thought at the end she would recognise Starbuck's part in getting the kill instead of just lording the fact that she'd gotten it over her.

And I've also had enough with the flashbacks. They need to go back to the straight through the ep format.

Other than those nitpicks, excellent ep. I loved the Helo/Starbuck moment at the end. Of all the characters in the show I probably identify most with Helo.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I would like to take this opportunity to profess my undying love for Colonel Tigh. That smirk on his face as Kat called Starbuck up to fill the mug... priceless!

I will seriously consider not watching an episode if they do the whole "xx Hours Ago" thing. Again. It was nice once, old twice, and now just distracting the third time. Get over it!

Anders is hot, but the whole relationship bugs me as well. It would be interesting if he shows up again - how would Kara deal with a live 'un?

Next week should be sad. I mean, really sad. But still a good episode.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Yeah, three times with the flashback thing is obnoxious. Someone needs to be hit over the head for that.

And Kat really, REALLY should've mentioned something about Starbuck's part in her killing Scar. Without Starbuck, she wouldn't have done it. Starbuck chased Scar right into her gun range.

Also, that scene between Boomer and Starbuck got to me. It was like you could see that both of them wished Boomer were still human, and as Starbuck said, you can forgot that Boomer is a Cylon. The bit of camera work with not showing the Marines at the ready until Boomer reaches out for Starbuck (in a totally non-aggressive way) and then they show the Marines aiming for her.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
quote:
Starbuck sure latched onto Anders pretty quick. Bothers me.
I think it has very little to do with Anders. I think it has a lot to do with wanting to go home. I never really thought it was romantic attachment, not truly.

I did like the line alluding to "we don't need two Tigh's on this ship" from Kat to Kara (the only line from Kat that didn't annoy me). I wonder, are they purposely making Kat hard to like? What is different about her cockiness than Kara's (which was in strong evidence pretty much up until her promotion on Pegasus...)?
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
I liked the flashbacks in this and the last episode, especially how they got layered faster and faster with the new material. It worked. Also, as one who REALLY wants this show to stay on television I also realize that flashbacks=savings in $$$=continued air dates for the show. They are really doing this show on the relative cheap. And last night's special effects were top notch (as they have been since it started but even getting better as the show goes on). Next week will be probably sfx free based on the amount this week (kind of like the previous week's interior only episode). I don't mind a repeated sfx or scene here and there. Hell, the original show used the same 5 sfx shots for an entire year!! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I thought the flashback thing worked okay with this episode, but it's a device they've overused, especially two weeks in a row. I only really got annoyed with it when they re-told the part of the dogfight and cut it off again, going to commercial. I thought that was cheap.

I think they could have redeemed Starbuck's obsession with Anders with one simple line she could have said when she was telling Lee that she was hung up on a dead guy. "And I don't get it, because he's no different than any of my other one-nighters. Why now? Why HIM?" I could understand being obsessed over someone because it's easier than facing Life.

The best part of the episode was that last scene, I agree. Helo is such a great character. And heaven knows they could put more levity into these episodes. For a people on the bring of extinction, being hounded by a relentless enemy, they don't laugh nearly enough.
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
I sympathise with Kat (is it a C or a K?) somewhat. She definitely had some valid points about Starbuck (being too hungover to go on missions, for example) and the rest of the time, she wasn't really being any more obnoxious than Starbuck has been on any number of occasions. I can easily see how their situation can lead to flareups and hot tempers.

One thing I didn't get is why was Roslin left w/Galactica? I can't think of any reason for her not to go with the fleet.

quote:
For a people on the bring of extinction, being hounded by a relentless enemy, they don't laugh nearly enough.
Well, that made me laugh, at least.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I like KAT as she is what Starbuck used to be, and I miss the "old" gungho Starbuck. Besides, everything that character said was basically my own criticism of the Starbuck character.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I think the line about Tigh is what really got to Starbuck.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
For a person who has serious attachment issues, Starbuck sure latched onto Anders pretty quick. Bothers me.
I think the point was that she only became so attached to him because he wasn't really there. He's most likely dead, and thus it is emotionally safe for her to pine after him. If he was really there, he'd no longer be safe and I think we'd see more of her get close/ pull away dance.
 
Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 
quote:
One thing I didn't get is why was Roslin left w/Galactica? I can't think of any reason for her not to go with the fleet.
I don't think she did. She could jump back to the Galactica to brief everyone from time to time in Colonial One. I doubt she was a permanent resident. They probably can't communicate when they are jumped apart (as we have seen in other episodes, thank you Tigh for losing the fleet) so she would need to jump back from time to time to get updates. And when she had to ask for another 8 days, that wasn't something that could be handled by Billy or other underling.

My 2 pennies, anyway.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Who replaced Commander Visk?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
What was that music they played at the end of Scar? Was that from "Deer Hunter"??

It was a perfect touch... I love how they have these pieces of Earth music or symbols tucked in every once in a while. I hope it has some greater significance.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I suppose this is a bit of a spoiler...

As for who replaces Commander Fisk,

quote:
An officer named Barry Trammel is promoted to replace Fisk as commander of Pegasus. ("The Captain's Hand").
Thanks to www.battlestarwiki.org
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Hehe... I contribute to that site. [Smile]
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
I think Kat had some valid points about starbuck, but the end really pissed me off. She knew that Starbuck led scar right into her sights, yet she acted like SHE did something amazing, when after all she was the one fooled by the immitation scar.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
BILLY!!!!

Fairly good episode. I'm not glad that good guys got shot, per se, but I'm glad that some good guys actually did get shot. There was no "miraculous-just-in-the-nick-of-time" rescue.

I thought Tigh (Saul, that is) was spot on, as usual; I thought Lee and Dee had less than no chemistry between them; I wanted to smack Dee for breaking Billy's heart - because he was probably the sweetest guy on the entire show; and I wish they had done more with the wavering hostage-taker. I wonder what his story was.

Ooh... and I think my favourite part was when Kara realized she shot Lee.


And did you hear the preview of next week? Our favourite flyboy is getting a promotion! And, apparently, taking control of Pegasus... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
You know... he must heal really fast to be taking control of Pegasus after getting shot like that... [Razz]

I wasn't terribly happy with this eps interaction between Adama and Sharon. I was kinda pissed at Sharon for refusing to help Adama with the other cylons, though I could understand why she'd say no. And I was pissed at Adama for being so damn suspicious. And where was Helo when she really needed him? [Frown]

The hostage situation was really interesting. I liked how they did it, I was sad to see Billy go, but it kept it realistic. I think I knew from the beginning of the episode that he was gonna go.

Too bad Hellen couldn't have gone along with him... or we couldn't trade him for Hellen...

Yeah... and I'm kinda mad at Dee for breaking Billy's heart... and I'm rather annoyed at Lee for letting her.

Oh well, still with the good episode [Smile]
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Billy + Dee = Happy Viewer
Dee + Lee = Annoyed Viewer
Show - Billy = Sad Viewer [Frown]
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
I think I'm more annoyed with the show for keeping the Dee and Lee relationship confined to a couple snippets and then springing it on us like some full blown romance. I can see where Billy was shocked. So was I.

Brings up an interesting thought, though. What kind of guy is Lee that he's off with the hooker one week and ready to hop in bed with Kara the next and then he's dating Dee? The future does not look good for any kind of faithfulness in his relationships.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Lee+Dee=cannot happen because one is enlisted and the other an officer.

And it just seemed SO out of place for Dee to be at Lee's bedside and not Guilty Starbuck.

Starbuck really had one of the Most Pitiful Faces Ever when she's left outside the bar after Adama goes in. I think she was really, really struggling with the idea that she could be the one responsible for the deaths of both Adama boys. o_O

I think Sharon refusing to help find other Cylons was spot on. As long as Sharon is on the Galactica, she will do anything to keep the Galactica from being destroyed and with it, to some extent, the fleet. This means any direct threats she'll help Adama defeat. But other Cylons in the fleet that are not Direct Threats, she still isn't going to help with. Why? Sharon is still a Cylon. She struggles a lot with acceptance of being a Cylon, but she still holds the Cylon Disdain for Humans. Sharon is a confusing character, just as she is much confused herself.

And Billy. Oh, Billy. [Frown] He was such a nice, sweet guy. [Frown] I wanted to smack Dee around for toying with him. Not cool, Dee, not cool.

Then Adama, just...STANDING...there as Roslin grieves over Billy, whom she obviously viewed as a surrogate son or nephew or something of the like. But I think Adama was struggling with the fact that his son, once again, lived, while Billy did not.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Starbuck leaving the room when she sees Dee by Lee's bed... [Frown]
 
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
 
Wow I joined the fray very late in Season 2 here...anyway...

I asked for Season I for Christmas, but was denied for reasons unbeknownst to me. Sigh.

So, I begged and begged until my wife finally browe down and bought it for me 2 weeks ago. I watched the whole thing in 2 days around work and this thing I call my life such as eating, working, and sleeping which all seemed secondary until completing Season I...

To make things worse, I recorded a few episodes from Season II on our DVR and watched two of them out of order. So I was browsing Amazon.com last week and thought I should check out when Season 2 would ship, and I nearly died!

The first half of Season 2 is out? Wierd. Needless to say, priority shipping seemed so necessary at that point, no wonder my wife nearly flipped when she found the package the next day...

So here I am a bit behind, but I caught about 5 episodes in a row this week being rerun on Scifi and recorded all of them on DVR. I just finished watching them as well and I am completely and utterly blown away.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
So you're saying you like it?
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
Finally! I just got caught up with the whole series thus far by watching last night's episode. Netflix is my friend [Smile]

So does anyone know how long the season is gonna be this year? Have they said how many episodes there will be, or is that still unknown to us viewers?

Man, this show is good. The worst thing about good shows is when they end. What will I do with myself? Furthermore, other TV shows just seem so bland since I've been on my BG marathon.
 
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
 
Um, its ok... [wink wink]

I just didn't want to gush out all the things I have on my mind into one very rambling post so I thought I should stop there, so I did.

I have detiorated into watching The History Channel, Discovery, The Science Channel, The Military Channel and a few very ecclectic shows and channels that further define my sad state of TV viewing. I regularly watch American Idol, and when at my moms for some strange reason, I watch nothing but The Game Show Channel. Throw in some G4TV and movie channels, and that is the extent of what I watch.

So for me, BSG is easily the best show on TV, because it is one of the few I watch at all :-)
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
So does anyone know how long the season is gonna be this year? Have they said how many episodes there will be, or is that still unknown to us viewers?
20 episodes, last night was... 16. I think.

Spoiler-y Titles of Upcoming Episodes (from memory):

So we've got these left...

The Captain's Hand
Downloaded
Lay Down Your Burdens Parts 1 and 2 (season finale).

I'm not missing any, am I?
 
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
 
Noemon, my question to you is which do you like better: BSG or Firefly? I myself would be hard pressed to pick a favorite...
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Well, they're pretty different from each other, but if I had to pick between getting to see another season of Firefly and seeing another season of BSG, I'd go with Firefly. So yeah, Firefly.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I'd say firefly, also. For a few reasons, the main one being that the eminent physical threat of the Cylons forces the characters to act like they are in the military, whereas, the crew of Firefly are more like free and equal citizens. When Adama pulls rank, its because there needs be a strict hierarchy for the survival of the species, when Mal tries to pull rank, he needs to have more penetrating moral insight, and even then, there is always threat of mutiny.

In short, Mal has to explain his decisions and seek agreement. Adama only needs to give an order.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I think you're right in that, Irami, but I'm not sure why that makes Firefly the better show for you. Can you elaborate?
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I don't like watching a show about hierarchies and power relationships and impending death.

I like watching a show about a group of free and equal people trying to do the right thing and do it together.

Firefly is more like the West Wing. One thing the west wing did right, rather, the best moments of the West Wing, weren't when Bartlet was giving orders, it was the group dynamnic of energetic people who weren't trying to merely live, but rather, they were daring to try to live well.

There is a built in egalitarianism in Firefly, bolstered by the fact that the entire Brown Coat ethos is that the independents didn't want the Alliance to tell them what to do.

If I have to choose between a story where people are merely trying to survive, and a story where people have secured the means of basic survival, and are trying to figure out how to live well, then I'll take the later. The former concerns hierarchy, labor, efficiency, economics, and getting food in my belly, the latter concerns dignity, responsibility, thought and action.

These dichotomies aren't strict, and egalitarianism bleeds into BSG and heirarchy and necessity rear in Firefly, but these generally are the reasons why I would pick one over the other. The BSG crew tends to concern itself with what's necessary to survive- for obvious reasons- the Firefly crew tends to try to do what's right and still feel good about themselves as people. For example, if Mal cared about mere survival, he wouldn't have been an independent soldier. He would have gone quietly over to the Alliance.
 
Posted by Angiomorphism (Member # 8184) on :
 
what is more entertaining/interesting? Whatching a man's struggle with death, or watching someone eat dinner and argue with their kids?

hierarchy, labour, efficiency? try pitching that to a network exec, or any demographic.

strugle to survie? now that's a idea
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I'll try again:

There are two batches:

The qualities that belong to the first batch are as follows: Hierarchy, labor, necessity, efficacy, efficiency, the struggle to survive, life and death, economy, sex, security, thoughtless obedience.

The second batch includes: Freedom, equality, responsibility, humility, degradation, thought, daring to thrive, speech, dignity, respect for one as free and equal.

I like shows that concern themselves with the second batch of qualities. Most shows- and I imagine, many lives- are a mix. I think that BSG tilts to the first and Firefly tilts to the second. I think that family life tilts to the first and public life tilts to the second. I think that military and business life tilts to the first and a life befitting a free and equal citizen in a democracy tilts to the second. I think that animal life tilts to the first batch and the interesting part of humanity tilts to the second.

This forum, just by its constitution as a web forum to discuss Books, film, food, and Culture, concerns mainly the second batch of qualities.

[ February 11, 2006, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Unless the Hatrack Congress elects a dictator and siezes imperator powers.
 
Posted by Angiomorphism (Member # 8184) on :
 
it seems so arbitrary
 
Posted by clod (Member # 9084) on :
 
I think that Olmos should play Mazor.

That would ROCK!

(not that the movie will ever get made)
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
quote:
it seems so arbitrary
Not if you go back to the foundations of democracy, heck, not even if you go back to the foundations of this country. The Athenian democracy only recognized the patriarchs as the "Demos," those free from the bonds of biological subsistence. The founders were similarly disposed. The dignity in the Athenian Democracy and the American continental congresses is that they got to think act and decide politcal matters. The Athenian men had women and slaves, and founders had women slaves and gadgets doing all of the work necessary for survival, freeing up their time and energy to concern themselves with talking with each other and thinking and acting as a people.

Sure, you can have a story centered around a group of people who concern themselves with living, or you can have a group of people who are concerned with living well. I think the latter will be a more interesting story.

[ February 12, 2006, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Never thought of it that way.

But can't one combine the two? What I find so compelling about Galactica is that often the characters are trying both to live and to live well, as I understand your descriptions. They may not always succeed due to the circumstances often - but not always - beyond their control. I believe Galactica also shows many sides of this duality you've described (again, living to survive and living well) when it focuses on the dichotomy between the Fleet and the fleet, and even moreso when it delves into the differences within each category.

That said, I never got too into Firefly. I find it fun, but I don't find it nearly as compelling as I find Galactica. I find myself having many more moral and philosophical discussions after the last episode of Galactica than I ever did after watching Firefly.

Thanks for sharing your ideas about the shows. I find those very compelling and shall enjoy thinking more on them. [Smile]
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Yep, BSG mixes both qualites, treating the characters as both members of a hierarchy and also as free and equal.

Take competition between Starbuck and Kat, or even the phenomenon of Starbuck. Starbuck is aristien it's a word that only exists in greek- I don't have my Liddle and Scott here and I imagine that your Greek is better than mine- but if I remember correctly, it's present progressive infinitive meaning always being the best.(Now that I look at it, it looks like an Aorist infinitive) Starbuck is aristien in that she is always shining out among her peers. You can't have peers in a heirarchy, and it was the competition of Starbuck and Kat as peers which sustained the tension in the episode, not the deaths of Jo Jo, Beano, and whatever the other pilots names were.

There is a letter in which Thomas Jefferson describes what he imagines as heaven as sitting in congress debating the issues with other congressmen.

Human Life, living well, means more than just surviving, it's the business of situating yourself among your peers and at the same time showing yourself as the best, and all of that falls apart if you depend on hierarchy and necessity. A few times Lee Adama has done this. In the first season when he brokered the last minute deal with Zarek and the prisoners, and when he chucked his allegience to the fleet at put a gun to Tigh's head at the end of the season one. In both instances, he put himself equal to his "superiors" and showed himself the best of the bunch in that in both instances, the audience got the feeling that he was right.(Now by Christian Theology, Adam tried the same thing and introduced the whole of human evil into the world.)

If all of the characters obeyed their orders, from the top down, and the show was merely surviving the Cylons, it would be boring because the show isn't about survival and following orders, its about whether and when the characters can keep their individuality and dignity, break their orders, [and] survive. For example, they could have made a show about the Pegasus but I don't know if I would have watched.

btw, I think this hypothesis explains the drive for women to enter the workplace, not for money, but for a sense of public dignity that can only come outside the hierarchy and necessity that bind household duties.

[ February 12, 2006, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
No, I pretty much work for the money. I'd be perfectly happy to stay home and take care of some kids if Chet ends up making enough money. And if you think I get a lot of dignity working customer service, you've obviously never done it.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I think arami is the perfect representation of modern liberal education. Lots of irrelavant conjectures and thought experiments. Try living for once where you can't catagorize, compartmentalize, or talk your way through.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
quote:
No, I pretty much work for the money. I'd be perfectly happy to stay home and take care of some kids if Chet ends up making enough money. And if you think I get a lot of dignity working customer service, you've obviously never done it.
I'm not talking about you. Women working to feed is as old as time. I'm talking about the new breed of female executive, whose husband makes enough. This one may hate the job, but works for the sense of public camaraderie, respect, and self-respect that's hard to attain while one is a slave to household needs and the rules that govern them. The deal is- and this is not without sick repercussions- in many cases, the business sphere is the closest thing we have to a public space. And in a serious way, one needs a public space in order to attain a rich sense of humanity.

quote:
I think arami is the perfect representation of modern liberal education. Lots of irrelavant conjectures and thought experiments. Try living for once where you can't catagorize, compartmentalize, or talk your way through.
That's what you think. I am a little curious as to what kind of fairy world you think I live in?

[ February 12, 2006, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
 
quote:
Well, they're pretty different from each other, but if I had to pick between getting to see another season of Firefly and seeing another season of BSG, I'd go with Firefly. So yeah, Firefly.
Yeah, what Noemon said. I didn't mean to churn up a debate about Firefly and BSG. They are both terrific shows, top-notch shows in my opinion, and like Noemon said, they are very different...

The strictest sense of my question was rooted in the fact that I know Noemon is a Firefly/Serenity fanatic, and I love that because I became a browncoat rather late in the game as well. But I heard Noemon's call and I answered. I was very curious how BSG faired in his rankings was all [Wink] .

Irami, I was honored by your gracious answers when questioned by others to defend your opinion, which you did not have to do. I am a simple man, and said simply, Firely is my Space Western, and it holds a special place in my heart right next to Star Wars. Basically, it is way up there. And yes, it IS much more than just a space western...

But BSG gives me a chance to dive into a series that shows no sign of stopping (see: the droning on of Stargate and its bizillion clones that rattle on) if all holds true with the Scifi channel. I can live, think, and breathe with each new episode and wonder what is going to happen next week and next season etc... However, if Firefly were to have an extended life and live up to the quality it has established and I had to only pick one of them to watch, it too would be Firefly.

Why? Because the characterizations were so well defined and developed, and the interpersonal relationships that developed from this base was just amazing. I still stagger mentally when I think how well the show was done as a whole. I still pine and moan when I come to the realization that it is now gone...most likely forever.

But we still have Stargate.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
In the Firefly versus Battlestar debate, I think I'd go with Battlestar. Firefly was great. I was frequently touched by the beauty of the characters and the connections between them. However, no show has ever touched me in the same way that Battlestar does. The love between the characters is displayed so well that it's almost tangible. When Starbuck cries in fear that she's shot Lee, I shudder in her terror and pain. When Adama kisses the president, I am elevated by the gentle tenderness. The emotions are delivered brilliantly. Firefly did this as well, however it did not touch me as often or as deeply.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Okay, here I go. I have just (last week) finished both Seasons One and Two on DVD. I had not seen any of the episodes since the miniseries aired originally on Scifi. Right when Season 1 hit the air, my wife and I gave up Dish Network and I lost my Scifi. Needless to say I have been in mourning ever since. My desire to see the series has only increased after reading all the good stuff being said about it on the web. So..thanks to a really good tax return and the appeasement of my wife with her own frivolous money to spend, I am now the proud owner of both seasons of BSG. After watching both seasons I intend to be the proud owner of future seasons as well..twice. Downloaded and on DVD. I am also a big fan of OSC, hence my arrival here in this forum. I was very glad to see this thread here and have read all 8 pages worth. Now, having said all of that, I have somewhat to add to the discussion.

1. Baltar is a Cylon. Watching the entire series from start to Pegasus and reading the theories on this thread I would say that the evidence is starting to point to the idea that Baltar himself is a cylon as well. Number Six is in his head as she transferred her consciousness to him when the bomb went off on Caprica. After reading all of your posts on this thread I almost wonder if Baltar is one of the first generation of Cylons that could not be controlled or something. My theory is not more refined than that. That is just what I am getting from the story so far.

2. Earth. Earth is not a colony, it is the origin point for human kind. Two quotes to consider: "Life out here began out there." and "All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again." Earth will not be the paradise that man is seeking out. Man already fled Earth once into the stars to escape the genocide that happened there. They fled to Kobol, created AI, had genocide again, and fled to the twelve colonies. I point to when Roslin refered to the ancient names of the twelve colonies were Aries, Gemini, etc. I find it very interesting that all of the human religion, culture, etc is based upon Greek Mythology. For me, the fact that the original names of the colonies are exactly like how the zodiac is pronounced on Earth would suggest that earth is not a colony, but a point of origin. It would also suggest that the language and pronunciation of earth english has drifted over the course of the 1200 plus years since the colonists left Earth and/or Kobol for the 12 colonies. I am left to wonder if the fact that earth is the origin of man has been forgotten or that Earth was a colony as the 13th group left Kobol to go back and reclaim earth.

3. Created Intelligence vs Man: Let me expand on the concept of "All of this has happened before and will happen again" idea. If the original group of man fled Earth to escape genocide just like the survivors of BSG did, that would explain why these civilizations are so backward in many aspects of technology while still having things as advanced as FTL drives. Image that man in every instance (Earth, Kobol, the Colonies) advances in technology to the point of creating AI to ease the burdens of man. The intelligence that man creates rebels and makes war on man. Man survives and flees to space to escape their creation's wrath, learns from their mistakes and goes backward in some technological advances in order to avoid the same mistakes. Flash forward a couple of thousand years, man forgets the lessons learned and creates AI again and reaps the same consequences, this time worse than before. Fleeing the terrible genocide, man this time decides to spread out hoping that if they populate multiple worlds, they will be impossible to destroy. Flash forward 1200 years and again man has forgotten the lessons learned by their ancestors. Man creates the Cylons. And the cycle repeats.

Okay, this obviously enough from me for now. Now all I need to do is spend next week downloading all of the episodes from season two that I haven't seen yet. Let me know what all of you think. I bet that I am way off here, but I had to get this out of my brain before it exploded.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Interesting I'm glad someone is using my theory [Smile] .

However I think Earth is a colony probly for the sake of plot, you see have you ever read the backstory to starcraft? Well basically Earth became a single totalitarian government and began a massive genocide to "purifiy" the gene pool by killing mutants, cyborgs, enhanced, criminals, political prisoners etc etc. But on Scientist Ruth took many of these condemned and used them in experiments and eventually came up with FTL drives and Earth soon colonized the Sol system. Until he built 7 colony ships that on autopilot (for the colonists were frozen) were to travel to a planet, however the system malfunctioned and stayed in hyperspace for 30 years until the drives gave out and the ships crashed on several planets, one transport blew up, one landed safely and would eventually found Tarsonis the founding member of the Confederacy. The rest would form the other colonies.

The thing is you could have colony ships reach the 12 and found colonies properly and have a head start, while the 13th might crash land in africa and humanity would have to start from scratch.

Essentially the common origin theory.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Snowden wrote:
quote:

btw, I think this hypothesis explains the drive for women to enter the workplace, not for money, but for a sense of public dignity that can only come outside the hierarchy and necessity that bind household duties.

Funny I thought it was because we Couldn't, then we Could and now, it seems we Must.

It takes a lot to run a household and women (and a few men) who do it deserve as much respect as those of us who work outside the home every day. Even if some people don't respect them.

Pix
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
quote:
Funny I thought it was because we Couldn't, then we Could and now, it seems we Must.

It takes a lot to run a household and women (and a few men) who do it deserve as much respect as those of us who work outside the home every day. Even if some people don't respect them.

Because you couldn't doesn't explain why anyone would want to. I'm trying to give an account of why women want to.

Running a household is hell, especially as a whole lot of women don't even run it, they just do most of the work, as a very competent second in command, kind of like a personal assistant. I'm not going to say that it's the most imaginative work, but it's gruelling. If they actually ran the household, there would be fewer issues concerning what to watch on television, but then men probably wouldn't come home as much because it's a rare man who likes taking orders in his home.

quote:
It takes a lot to run a household and women (and a few men) who do it deserve as much respect as those of us who work outside the home every day. Even if some people don't respect them.
Considering I don't respect a whole lot of outside jobs, that's not saying much. The problem with being a slave to household duties is that all of your work takes place outside of a public forum. There are no peers, just subordinates and superiors. And I know I'm going to get flack for this, but there isn't even art to it, just more work, it is really close to dehumanizing. I'm not talking so much about the parenting. I'm talking about the cooking and cleaning and bill paying.

[ February 13, 2006, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Who here is happy they're not married to Snowden, Raise your hands.

(Guys, you can put your hands down. We know you're happy you're not married to him.)
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Red, I've always suspected Baltar is a cylon too. Can't even speculate on models and such, leave that up to the writers.

I just have a pretty good hunch that a person standing in a building that is leveled by a nuclear blast doesnt survive. I dont care if a hot and inhumanly strong chic is standing in front of him or not. He should be dead. So either the director was a bit overzealous in that scene when baltars house is blown to smithereens, or he is a cylon.

That does raise the issue that he has had multiple opportunties to destroy at least galactica and possibly the fleet and passed them up. The dude has been sitting on a nuclear warhead for quite some time now. And could someone please explain the rationale for giving it to the cylon chick? That seems stupid on a number of levels.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I don't think Baltar is a cylon. That would seem counter-productive. Why waste all that time trying to convince him of something when they could just influence his programming or whatnot? I think the cylons need a human ally and that is Baltar.

Is Snowden the same person as Irami?
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Irami, do you really mean to say that there is no art to household management? Even to cooking?

I contend that there is room for art to just about anything, given the right attitude.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Two words... Feng Shui...
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
quote:
Who here is happy they're not married to Snowden, Raise your hands.

(Guys, you can put your hands down. We know you're happy you're not married to him.)

[Big Grin]

Marrying me would be awful for reasons entirely different than reasons against marrying Ward Cleaver. So much so that I think it would be impossible for me to ask a girl with a straight face.

quote:
Irami, do you really mean to say that there is no art to household management? Even to cooking?
I'm a slow cooker. If I'm to cook well, it takes me forever and I'm exhausted at the end, and since my sense of smell is poor, I don't really enjoy food enough to spend the time and energy to cook well. I hack it through, cook slop, and eat it.

As to household duties being like an art. Well, there is no audience and nobody to talk to, unless you, like me, do a whole thing by yourself. At least ditch diggers are digging ditches next to other ditch diggers. They have a little ditch digger break spot where they can go and talk about rocks and the issues of the day.

Being 50 year old male executive without scruples is the life. You have a wife at home doing all of the necessary things, you have a wife at the office- I'm sorry, executive assistant- doing all of the office housekeeping, all you have to do is worry about gambling, I mean, trying to find a market advantage, and "network." It's like being the perfect Athenian male, no wonder they were given the vote so quickly.

[ February 14, 2006, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
*reverts topic back to BSG, not that the divergence wasn't fun*

So. "The Captain's Hand," which could actually be translated as "The Captain, no wait Major, NO! Commander's Hand." How about that racking up of promotions by Lee? And who else is glad he's leaving behind Dee?

I liked this episode. I was glad to see a bit more of Gaius; he and Six are always entertaining. It certainly set up a (rather predictable) political conflict for the upcoming presidential election. I was glad to see Tyrol poke his face out for the first time in several episodes.

And if Doc Cottle isn't a Cylon, he does a darn good impression of one [Smile]
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I thought that this was one of the better episodes they've aired in some time. In many ways the commander of the Pegasus reminded me of your average Starfleet captain, at least in terms of his willingness to risk a resource vital to the survival of all to save a handful of crewmen, and I loved seeing that work out as horribly as it often would in real life.

It was also interested seeing the personal dynamics between Roslyn and Gemenon representative.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
"Geminon"

This episode disappointed me to the degree that I could predict pretty much all the major plot points:

-Yes its a trap

-The commander is foolish enough to risk the lives of his crew and the Battlestar to save the few. hasnt he heard of "the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few"?

-The Commander dies a galant death

HOWEVER, I could not immediately predict that the Commander would in a change of heart give Lee the CIC and go below though it did suit his Snipish character and is believeable.

I am glad that the Pegasus now has a not only able but a sufficiently charismatic commander who can weld the loyalty and devotion fo the crew to follow him and have not only the intelligence to think of bold moves but the courage to carry them out.

I am glad Garnard died a honerable death otherwise how could he face a court martial for disobeying the direct orders of a fleet Admiral?

The political arc will be interesting and I hope Gaius becomes a plus for humanity not its anema.

Lee's skill in controlling the flow of the battle was Amazing and I'm glad he got promoted so fast otherwise when he reached the age commonly asociated with Command he'ld be too much of an old foggy to command with the same agility and dexterity he has now.

But nevertheless this will be my first Official Favorite episode.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
And who else is glad he's leaving behind Dee?

Are we sure he is leaving Dee behind? It seemed vague at best what their relationship status was. If he is leaving her, hooray. If not, boo. [Razz]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I meant more as in "He won't be seeing her daily because they're on the same ship." Perhaps distance will tone down this relationship a bit, and hopefully it won't be as contrived.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
"Geminon"


Were you correcting my spelling? If so, I'm pleased to see you beginning to concern yourself that kind of thing. According to this page, though, it's spelled with an "e" rather than a "i". Could just be a typo on their part, though.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
oh I see, nevermind. I felt that it was spelt as in "Gemini" thus "Geminon" or "Geminion"
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Reasonable assumption.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
best ep in a while. Loved Adama's "Shut up, Cottle" look. where the heck is captain Kelly?

--j_k
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
Though, I wonder if Lee is really the best choice. He is very young, and with his father being the admiral, it runs the risk of looking like nepotism. Having both battlestars run by the same family might also make civilians leery.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Not with the right spin, Lee saved the Battlestar from certain destruction and mission killed a Cylon Base Star I say he deserves!

And whose Kelly? Also, remember the Media!
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
It is probably the only choice, at least temporarily. Who else? Tigh? We saw what happened when he was left in charge of something.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Guy on the left. The officer you saw in the miniseries and in the first few eps of season two, but never saw again. Would've been a better choice than Garner.

--j_k
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
For the most part, I was extremely diappointed with this week's episode. I agree with Blayne that is was annoyingly predictable at parts. Also, I did not for a second believe that Lee was mad at Starbuck because she was bucking authority. He's always seemed to find that endearing about her. I thought he was upset because she'd rejected him and he was trying to move. Yet he still held resentment over the rejection. Or at least something more personal.

I also don't like that Lee is the new Commander. I don't believe that the Pegasus crew would appreciate having somebody who's not their own be their Commander, much less the Admiral's son. I think that the first Admiral had the right idea. They need to mix up the crews in order to unite both crews instead of maintaining the us and them mindset.

However, I did enjoy the abortion angle of the episode. I liked how they framed it in terms of species survival. I also liked that Gaius stabbed the president in the back. While I think he would hate being president, I do believe that he would try to get the presidency out of spite for Laura.

Next week's episode looks exciting. Hopefully it'll undo the trend of mediocre to bad episodes that's been going on lately.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
I remember him. I thought he got killed? I'm rewatching season one now so I'll try and keep track of him.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
A mediocre or bad episode on BSG is better than most shows' best episodes.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
Next week's episode looks exciting. Hopefully it'll undo the trend of mediocre to bad episodes that's been going on lately.

I think that you are being a little overly critical. This is a show that is worthy of the attention it gets. There are so very few of these left on television these days. Even the slow one keep me on the edge of my seat.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
The commander of the Pegasus figured out where he needed to be--engineering. That was the most noble moment he had in that episode. Not the dying to save the ship bit, it was his realization and decision to help the ship where he was most needed. It takes a lot to admit that and turn command over to another and go be useful.

As for Tigh, there's no way in hell he'd want to command the Pegasus. He hates being in command. He's a good XO but a horrible commander. He hated being in charge of Galactica as much as the crew did. Promoting Tigh anymore would render him as useless as the former Pegasus commander (the most recently late one).

As for Lee, he's a good leader. But at the same time, he's too young and moved too fast. How will he act now? Will he be able to handle it?

And Starbuck being the CAG? Remember, she didn't want to be CAG in the first place, she was relieved when Lee showed up in the miniseries and that he became CAG due to his outranking her.

Andn then Lee and Dee? Ridiculous. Especially now that he's a Commander. She's enlisted crew. Have they forgotten the whole thing between the Chief and Boomer? And they were much closer in rank than Lee and Dee. (Lt Junior Grade and Chief Petty Officer vs. Commander and...whatever Dee is, which certainly isn't a CPO).
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Petty Officer, 2nd Class. (Dee)
 
Posted by Angiomorphism (Member # 8184) on :
 
About the recent episode's political developments... I don't really see how Roselyn is in that bad a situation. All she has to do is justify her decision, by saying that Baltar gave her the info. that made it necessary to implement the anti-abortion law. There are two possible outcomes from doing this: one, Baltar denies doing this. This would put Roselyn on top, because people believe her more, and it wouldn't be that hard to check Baltar's files to see if infact he had this data. Two, he admits to giving her the information, but then says that he'd rather have freedoms for 20 years than have the whole human race alive. Also in this scenario his actions seem traitorous, a quality the public wouldn't soon vote for. That's all I've got, anyone else think differently?
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
Or he can say that he believes in their current pattern that they would go extinct (and that he told Roselyn this), but he wants to find another way...one that does not require giving up rights.

He can say that it is not enough to simply survive, they must survive as a civilization, and once you start taking away rights that civilization starts to die.

He also has those that run the black market on his side. Rumors could spread from them about Roselyn wanting to shut down people's access to luxery goods. They can say a lot that Baltar couldn't say himself without looking bad or pissing off Adama.

I don't agree with any of this, and I would not vote for him...but I think many would
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I can't imagine that the human race would last that much longer with abortion being illegal. How many babies would be aborted in twenty years? I doubt it would even increase the survival rate by a year. I can understand why Roselyn would be concerned and want to do everything possible. However, I think Baltar can make an equally convincing case that one extra year based on projections is not worth the loss of rights.

quote:
I think that you are being a little overly critical. This is a show that is worthy of the attention it gets. There are so very few of these left on television these days. Even the slow one keep me on the edge of my seat.
I agree that most of the time this show is worth the attention it gets. However the slow episodes do not keep me on the edge of my seat and I eagerly look forward to episodes that do.

[ February 20, 2006, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Amanecer ]
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
I said some time ago that I think Baltar has to be a Cylon; it is the only way to account for his hallucinations, since it is already established that he does not have an implant in his head.

Now let me advance a truly wild conjecture: The only possible reason for the Cylons to have such an irrational determination to commit genocide against their creators is that some super-entity, who is an enemy of the Lords of Kobol, sought to strike at them through their human colonies, by deliberately sabotaging the basic programming of the Cylons. But as the Cylons have produced humaniform Cylons, who in turn have begun to feel more and more human, and have religous thoughts of their own, they are beginning to overcome the corruption in their own original basic programming. Thus there is a developing conflict among the Cylons.

I don't know whom to villify as the real villain or villains; the super entity who is an enemy of the Lords of Kobol, or the Lords of Kobol who irresponsibly absented themselves and allowed all these things to happen.

And as I also said before, I wouldn't want the BatGal fleet to come within a hundred thousand lightyears of earth. We've got enough problems of our own, without having to deal with those lunatics!
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I disagree I believe so very much that BSG/BSP will find Earth and we'll together kcik the Cylons back to their homeworld and Liberate the colonies!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
And as I also said before, I wouldn't want the BatGal fleet to come within a hundred thousand lightyears of earth. We've got enough problems of our own, without having to deal with those lunatics!
Yeah... but Lee's really hot. Can't we just take him? [Wink]
 
Posted by Angiomorphism (Member # 8184) on :
 
or number 7, Trishia Helfer is smoking!
 
Posted by clod (Member # 9084) on :
 
it would so wrock if Picard made a cameo on this show.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Finally got a chance to see the rerun.

WOW. The past few episodes were kinda lacking, felt like the show had lost direction or something to me.

The stories and acting were great, they just focused on the wrong things or in the wrong order... and Billy should have gotten a funeral or something. He better not just be forgotten. I know Laura and D will grieve over Billy's death, but I want to SEE them do it. Otherwise it will feel like they have been forgotten.

But this episode really hit me.
Finally the population numbers come up again... THE most important thing for our race. And while I detested the anti-choice thing... I had to agree that in this time of species emergency we must breed asap. I'm glad they did not back away from this...I would have much of my faith in the show if they had.

While it was obvious the new Pegasus Commander was making a HUGE mistake jumping in, I wasn't able to call WHAT would happen. I was almost expecting to see the Lords of Kobol or something. And to have LEE in charge now!! Holy Frack!

Yeah... I look for those edge-of-my-seat episodes too... and the last half of this had me on mine. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Alright, so how about "Downloaded"?

I really really liked it, though I wish they had explicitly uncovered a new Cylon when they were on Caprica. I'm starting to seriously wonder about Gaius, though... [Smile]

I enjoyed the points of view of Caprica-Six and Boomer, particularly when Baltar realized for Six just how alike the two actually are. I'm very curious as to their plan to make the Cylon world better in the next 36 hours - do they instigate the peace talks hinted at in the trailer for next week? Or are they going to try to influence Cylon society in another way?

Very satisfying, overall.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Today's episode was great. Possibly my favorite episode of season 2. Definately my favorite episode of the second half of season 2.

I'm soo glad they brought back Sharon 1. That felt like such a loose end, them never addressing what happened to her. After all, she died before they blew the resurrection ship. And the direction she and 6 were headed by the end of it made me extremely happy [Smile] Though, I kinda wish they'd gone with Anders and helped the resistance movement. They're both still kind of at risk of being boxed as it is. Maybe they will end up going with the resistance movement... if the resistance movement can be brought to trust them anyway.

I can see why they did what they did with the baby, but it still kinda frustrates me. Far as I can tell Sharon has done nothing but help them. She didn't want to reveal who the rest of the cylons in the fleet were becuase she knew they'd just go and kill them. I can understand not wanting to betray them to death, and it would be a real death this time cause she helped em take out the resurrection ship. They made it look like she's going to go nuts in the finale, I hope she doesn't. I hope Helo can pull her out of it.

I can't wait for the Season finale now. But it kinda makes me sad that they're ending the season so soon. I want more [Frown]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, BLAST, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When will I learn not to read the rundown of a really good show before watching it. I have wait until tomorrow when it is available on iTunes for download. It looks like this was too good of an ep to spoil! BLAST!
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Your own fault.

MindBaltar amused me to no END.

"It seems almost...inhuman, doesn't it? *pause* "Oh, that's right, you're NOT."

*snort*

And Sharon's comment about the Six models being so hardcore was bang-on.

Loved the episode. I already want to watch it again. I can't figure out where the hell they're going. I thought Baltar would take the baby and head back to Caprica, but no. GalacticaSharon tweaking was unexpected, at least when she attacked Cottle. It seemed more of a grieving mother instinct than anything, but then again, do Cylons have those sorts of insticts? Maybe so. They seem much more...human.
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
This is the Galactica I know and love. CapricaSix having a Baltar in the head was absolutely brilliant. I still don't understand how that's being done. FleetBatar has no idea about the other Six, and the other Cylons certainly seem to think he's human. I don't understand how he survived the nuclear blast that killed her. However, this episode restored my faith that there is an explanation, and it's a good one.

I'm a little confused by Rosalin's handling of the baby. After all, once Hera gets older she's going to start to realize she's different from other humans. Maya won't be able to explain to her why that is. The only person in the Fleet who knows what it feels like to work against what she inherantly is would be Sharon 2. I don't believe for a moment that Hera is going to stay with Maya for the next sixteen years, but Rosalin certainly shouldn't be operating on that assumption.

I had two favorite moments. When Sharon 2 is reaching into the incubator for Hera with her head on Helo's chest and Helo leans down and closes his eyes. So beautiful. And when the Chief is out there with Helo to spread the ashes. The way their friendship has matured has just been one of my favorite subplots. Chief has got to be the single most decent human being on the show. I'm holding out a crazy hope that Sharon 1 can get back together with him. It's silly, but I don't care.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
WHAT THE FRAKE!?

This show is boggling my mInD!? MUAHA [Eek!] [Wall Bash]

Awuah! Just when I think the show is sliding into predictibility they THROW THIS!!! *points vaguely* at me!

AY!

Maybe Baltar IS God? Showing himself as a Cylon no. 6 in Baltar and Balter in 6 but is really soemthing else, driving the 2 together?

I dunno sounds far fetched.

But wow, just woah.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I have to say, Caprica 6's Baltar is HILARIOUS. Some of my favorite lines in that episode came from him. He's going to quickly become one of my favorite chars if he sticks around.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
"It's inhuman. Oh wait... You are."

(or words to that effect)
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Well, here's a theory. Even though Baltar survived the because he was sheltered by Six. The minute she died and because of the nuclear blast, her conciousness that was being released imprinted itself onto him and the reverse is true of him to her. However, if that true, it would make me think that he is not entirely human either. Maybe he's the first Human-Cylon cross, an earlier model that went completely human or maybe something else entirely? I like the idea that he is a cylon...or maybe a child of a Cylon and a human? There's a thought.
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
I forgot to say before, it was nice to see flashbacks used appropriately in this episode. They went back and showed us the important events from before that we needed to understand in order to follow the current story. Nicely done.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
RedDwarf I agree assuming my "Generation Cylons" (Gen-1 Toasters, Gen-2 Tactical Cyclons, Gen-3 Skins) theory is correct then that would be an interesting theory.

Also I notice the contrast, the no. 6 in Baltar's head is a religious zealot trying to undermind the human race yet try to "save Baltar" while the other no. 6 with Balter in her head is pro-human and is trying to get no. 6 to betray her own people and help humans.

Interesting its like the bad in one became a ghost and the good in another did likewise.
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
OK, I admit, this last episode (Fri. Feb. 24) was pretty good. Having Baltar appear as an hullucination that can be seen only by "Caprica Six," exactly the reverse of the way it is with Baltar on Gallactica, is an absolutely delightul plot twist I for one in no way expected. And to have her confess her love for Baltar, once she learned from Sharon (Number Eight) that Baltar is still alive, and have that lead to a pact between the two Cylons to rebel against the Cylon general orders and reassess the wisdom of wiping out the human race, makes this a really interesting story. I now am just as interested (or even more interested) in what is going on on Caprica as in what is going on in the fleet.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
They're both still kind of at risk of being boxed as it is. Maybe they will end up going with the resistance movement... if the resistance movement can be brought to trust them anyway. [Frown]

KIND of at risk? Their Cylon lives are over as soon as that other cylon gets revived in 36 hours or so. They'll be either boxed or on the run from that point on. I suppose if they weren't forced to do what they must within 36 hours then they wouldn't do it at all but I still grieve for the fact that they will be on the run, and unable to interact with the cylons for their new cause, after 36 hours.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I'm so glad I DVR these shows. That was an *excellent* episode.

And MindBaltar was SUCH a great idea! It was the ultimate fakeout... I gasped and said out loud, "So he IS a cylon!". Then he disappeared. I laughed out loud. My husband did the same thing when I watched it with him later (Friday is boy's night out, so I get to see it before he does. [Big Grin] )

Overall, great episode from start to finish. I'm dreading the season finale. No new episodes for months. I'm depressed already. In a good way.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
That was an absolutely awesome episode!!! [Big Grin]

Number Six has told Baltar that she is an emissary from God. I'm starting to think we should take that at face value. That's the only explanation I can think of that accounts for both imaginary Six and Baltar.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Okay, after actually watching the episode, I am far less convinced that Baltar is anything but human. At the moment, I just don't know what to think of both of them. What I would be really interested to see is the meeting of the two at some point. I would like to see what mind-six is going to do when Baltar meets up with the resurrected six.

I am definately thinking that these dopplegangers could be the end result of the nuclear blast plus consciousness transfer. Maybe an imprint of the other's personality on the host's minds that acts as a mental projection of their guilt for their part in the destruction of mankind? Baltar's imprint manifests as an emissary from God offering him redemption for betraying his own people. Six's manifests as a conscience to deliver her from her betrayal of her true love? Don't know, but it is obviously a very good plot tactic as we are sitting here talking about it. I will love to see the last two episodes of the season.

On another note, I wonder how many seasons they have plotted out at this point. I realize that some would like to see this last forever, but personally I would like to see the show have a well plotted out beginning, middle, and good conclusion. RM is supposed to have a bible of the show that he wrote. Any thoughts?
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
We already know how Baltar would react if he met a living Six, because he did. Hew immediately loved the Six he met that was being kept prisoner on Pegasus, intervened to stop her torture, and arranged for her escape. He also gave her a gun and invited her to get even with the psychotic Admiral. She did; she is the one who killed the Admiral.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Yes, but Gina was not his Six. I'd be much more interested to see the very woman he's been hallucinating - and vice versa.
 
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
 
So Boomer and Six will get back to their lovers!
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
So, I'm having some confusion about the human looking cylons. Help?

My original thought was that they took humans and then used them as models to make the 12 cylon models. I thought perhaps Sharon was grabbed after her training and after she spent some time on Galactica. That would explain why the first Sharon thought she was human. That would explain why the second Sharon knew everyone from Galactica.

But the last episode suggested that there WAS no childhood Sharon, it was all a cover to get her into the military. And Sharon 1 must have had false memories of a family and childhood. But if that is the case, how does Sharon 2 know the people on Galactica? She remembered events, speeches, all of Galactica history prior to the massacre of the human race. I assumed she didn't have memories for past the time when Galactica went on the run, since both Sharons existed separately by then.

So how come both Sharons remember Galactica at all?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
...


there are 12 models, some are agents who know theyre cylons and there are some programmed to THINK they are human to act as sleepers.

However; when one cylon dies her memories are transfered back to a new body.

Maybe at some point in her life S-1 made secret contact with cylons and transfered her memory up to the point of the cylon attack.

Explains???
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
My impression is that cylons of the same model share a common memory pool, but have distinct personalities, or more accurately, distinct souls. This would be why the Sharon currently on Galactica can remember having had a relationship with The Chief, but didn't pick up where the recently killed Sharon had left off.

I could, of course, but completely wrong.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
I think Noemon has it. I wonder, though, when the memory transfers occur. JUST when they die? All the time? Set intervals? I'd also figure that they would be designed with a way to keep their memories apart from received memories of other cylons. It's interesting to think about.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I also am confused about this. If Noemon's theory is correct, I don't understand how the other Sixes don't know about Caprica Six's love for Gaius.
 
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
I don't know wether to admire this thread, or laugh at all of you.

I mean, its not a bad show.... but seriously, how long can you obsess over a TV show?

(oh and Atlantis kicks Battlestars ass!!!)
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
If they were created before she fell in love with Gaius, they wouldn't have her memories.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I wonder about that myself, Amancer, and haven't come up with a satisfying answer.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
That makes sense; it hadn't occurred to me that it was possible that none of the 6 models had died since Caprica 6 had. How much time has passed since the cylon attack on the colonies, anyway?
 
Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :
 
What I am continually obsessing with is the identity of the 12 cylon models. I just can't help myself taking every character and wondering if THEY are a cyclon and find myself working them into the current plot. This really is a mind-scrambling event for me and I just can't get enough...

Advent 115 I would suggest you start an Atlantis thread and conduct all your wonderful posts there.

And,

I also wonder about your humanity when there must be another 114 of you Adventers running around loose. Geez...
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Advent, that was kind of a dick thing to say in a thread of fans dicussing the show. It's like someone popping onto the general forum here and making fun of all of us. Not cool.
 
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
Sorry. I like the show too but, I never tried to make a thread to discuss it.

Sorry if I offended anyone. [Cry]

Is this a good time to use my one time Newbie Pass to get out of this mistake? [Frown]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Sure, we forgive you.

Atlantis is cool, but Battlestar Ive seen more eps of, all of the BSG eps relaesed so far.

I can only download one or 2 eps of atlantis my bandwith sucks.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Advent, yes. But next time, you get eaten or burninated. [Wink]
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Alucard, I have the same problem. And it was my only beef with this last episode...it was a little weird that we saw all these 'skin-jobs', but the only ones we saw were the ones we, the audience, already know about. So why not show any of the others, except to keep us in the dark, which wouldn't make any logical sense in terms of the story. The only way it would make sense is if those other six models just plain aren't on Caprica. Why would that be?

Noemon, I am thinking it's only about 4 to 6 months at the most. If I remember right, just a couple of months into the fleet's travels was the rebellion on the prison ship. They said then that it was 7 months to the next election. They're running campaigns now, so...

Wonder if we're ready yet to start an American Idol thread.... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
*bows low*
Thank you for forgiving this lowly newbie.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I listened to the podcast for this last episode and RDM specifically addressed it, saying that TPTB didn't want to reveal upcoming storylines. I mean, really. How much of a shock would it be in the future if we'd already seen Gaeta munching on biscotti beside another Six, and possibly Dee? It worked for Boomer - I don't think the anticipation would work again (Just so you know, those are not confirmed - just geeky speculation/wishing [Smile] )

Besides...

SPOILER

*

*

*

We meet a new Cylon in the next episode. That should be enough.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I think it's been nine months since the Cylon attack. In last week's episode it showed Number Six being reborn and then said "Nine Months Later" and went to what I thought was the current time line. *Hopes that I remember correctly*

quote:
If they were created before she fell in love with Gaius, they wouldn't have her memories.
This doesn't hold consistant with Helo's Sharon and her memories. Helo's Sharon appears to remember everything about Chief's Sharon including memories made after her own creation. This includes the words Adama said to her after she'd been dead for a while.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Woo! A new cylon!
 
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
 
I thought we saw a new cylon from the back in the last episode on Caprica -- I recall seeing a black man walking and talking with someone else. I think I already recorded over the tape, so I can't double-check, but did nobody else see this?
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
It was the doctor guy from the episode when Starbuck was in the baby farm. He's already known.
 
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
 
Ah, ok. I didn't see him from the front, so (/and) I didn't remember him.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Other fun fact: if you go see Firewall, notice the amazing similarity between the Harrison Ford's house and Baltar's house on Caprica. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I think that Helo Sharon was programmed with BSG Sharon's memories at some point. That would mean that some point, they downloaded all of BSG Sharon's memories in preparation for Helo Sharon's mission on Caprica. See, she knew that she was a cylon and what her mission was, rather than BSG Sharon who was programmed to think that she was human. The biggest question would then be when would have they downloaded her memories? I would say that at anytime really. BSG Sharon would "wake up" all the time with no memory of what she had been doing. Like when she planted the bombs in the water tanks. It would stand to reason that during one of those black-outs, she would have downloaded her memories to a cylon raider close-by or something. The raider theory comes from the Ep that Lucy Lawless first guest starred as the reporter. I would say that since they have the ability to download memories or consciousness at death, they probably have the ability to do that anytime.

That would mean that even though the Cylons have the ability to do that, I would imagine that they would only do so when there is a reason. That would explain why none of the other Sixes would know or have memories of Baltar.

Think of the confusion and pain that it would cause; all of them sharing everyone else's memories and experiences. From the standpoint that the human cylons were created by the machine cylons, I can't think that a machine would logically conclude that just throwing data into a giant pool with no organization would make sense. Ron Moore states himself on the podcast the cylons are not the borg. No hive mind then.

How about this. Think of the cylon race as the ultimate cybernetic computer network. Each machine has a unique id and unique data, yet by being apart of the same network, that data can be shared by others at will. The limited numbers of human models would be explained as a necessity of keeping the network as easy to maintain as possible. Now think about this, what happens if you have one computer on a network crash and you lose it physically? Well, if the vital data is backed up, then simply load that data onto a similar machine and keep on going. I would think of the cylons and their memories in this fashion. Again this would explain the limited number of cylon models (which is something I have been wondering about, "Why only 12 models?"). That is necessary to eliminate confusion and data corruption during the download process.

Even better, if you have a power supply fry everything in your computer, but the hard drive survives, logically you could take that drive and stick it into an identical configuration and just turn it back on. No data loss and as far as the data is concerned, it is in the same machine. Okay, that's enough of my rantings. Any thoughts anyone?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I have a thought, but it's not actually related to you, Reddwarf.

My thought: It really sucks when cable boxes go out and there's almost no way to get it fixed/replaced before Friday.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
Yeah, that does suck. Is there a way to take it to a payment center and replace it in person? (its possible with comcast, is why I ask)
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Not so much. I have class during regular business hours (and no car), and my roommate (whose account it actually is) works during the day. [Frown] [Frown] [Frown]

And now, back to the regularly scheduled discussion.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Sorry to hear about your cable loss Carrie. [Frown] If you can get it back up by Monday night, they replay the episode.

Reddwarf- I like the idea that Helo's Sharon and BSG's Sharon are a unique case. That clears up a lot of consistancy issues. I still don't know how either one of them could remember things from after she died (Helo's Sharon saying to Adama, "You asked me why"), but I suppose that's a seperate issue. In the rest of your post, do you mean that generally the cylons do not share their memories with other cylons and that they are usually only transfered to themselves? Yet the cylons still have the ability to transfer it if they choose? If this is what you mean, I think that is a fabulous theory. [Smile] I'm uncertain about your meaning because I don't understand how having only 12 models eliminates data corruption and confusion. It would still have to keep track of all of the seperate "souls" regardless of the number of models.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Carrie allow me to introduce you to the joy of iTunes. I have cable, but no Scifi since mine is only basic. So I download the episodes and watch them later. They are available within 24 hours after they are aired for download. $1.99 per episode and well worth it!

As to my theory, it will be easiest if you think of their memories and "souls" as data and their bodies as hardware. Now think of how a computer network works at any normal business. Everyone's computer on the network is unique in data. However, since every computer is hooked up to the network, other users on the network can see that data and even download onto their machine, making it their data too. Now say there is this piece of data that is downloaded by one user that was created by another. The user that downloaded it now owns that data as their own to use it however they see fit, but that still doesn't change the original data which is living on the creator's machine. Also, most large networks have massive back-up systems that access users computer regularly and back-up the data so that if the user's hardware goes down or is lost, then the data isn't lost. Once the user has replaced their hardware, the data is restored and everything is as it was. Now apply this to Cylon society. Pretty cool to think about, huh?

As to the limited models, think of it in this fashion. In very large networks, the key to managing the complexity of the network is as much uniformity as possible. While data can never be uniform, the method of storing it and the type of hardware that it operates on can be. In networks in the real world, where you regularly have all types of equipment connected to a network, this complexity is managed by backing up only vital data (documents, etc). Usually that means that no operational data is backed up. Data like drivers, operating systems, programs, etc. There isn't the need to back-up this type of data because it is more than likely that if the hardware is lost, the hardware that will replace it will probably be a different configuration requiring different drivers, operating systems, programs, etc. In the cylon network, this is not possible. The data that they are backing up is infinately more complex. Essentially when they back up, they have to back-up everything, system operational files and all. That means that in order to restore that data without corruption, the data would have to be restored to exactly the same hardware configuration that it was backed up from. It's like my hard drive comment from my last post. That is why it would make sense to have a limited number of hardware configurations. The limited number would make it possible to manage the enormus complexity of the cylon network. Plus as Helo Sharon stated in "Scar", death for a Cylon is still an incredibly painful and traumatic experience. Even for the machine cylons. Add to that being downloaded into a completely different body and cylon society would probably implode from the chaos and confusion it would cause. So to minimize the confusion and trama, they limit the number of hardware configurations and only download data back into identical configurations. On top of that, from an inventory control standpoint, fewer models are going to be easier to manufacture and maintain.

Now to directly answer your question, all of the cylons (human and machine) are individuals with unique data just like regular humans. However the cylons have the added benefit of being able to share their data with other cylons at will. Now even though they can be identical to other cylons phyically, they are still just as unique in data to regular humans.

I would further argue that in the case of the Sharons, Helo Sharon is a copy of BSG Sharon and therefore techinically the same person, like a clone, but different now because of their experiences that they have had since the split. Like two branches from the same trunk of a tree.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
I still don't know how either one of them could remember things from after she died (Helo's Sharon saying to Adama, "You asked me why")

Not sure either. Maybe the Cylon network connection still transmits data for a time even after the biological functions shut down.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Got around my little "no cable box" problem and just downloaded the silly show today.

So what did everyone think? Back to Caprica, finding a habitable planet, presidential debates... all pretty good.

My favourite line was Six saying about Tom Zarek, "He's a smart and sexy man. Like you." [Big Grin]

[ March 04, 2006, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Carrie ]
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I want to see more of Caprica Six with head Baltar.

But as to this episode, it felt mostly like lead in and set up. And of course ended with a cliffhanger. So now I'm just hanging off the cliff waiting for next weeks HOUR AND A HALF EP!! HUZZAHH!
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I think I have to reserve my opinion until I see the second half. There wasn't much to the first part...or rather, there was too much.

And I'm hating that this will be the end of the season. When does the next season start?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Mid-July, probably around the time of the ComicCon.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Very frustrating episode to say the least. However, there is much to look forward to. A reviewer that I read in the last couple of days who had already seen both eps said that the revelations that happen in the last moments of the next episode are supposed to "earth shattering" (her words). So given that, there really is not much to talk about......yet!
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Carrie allow me to introduce you to the joy of iTunes. I have cable, but no Scifi since mine is only basic. So I download the episodes and watch them later. They are available within 24 hours after they are aired for download. $1.99 per episode and well worth it!

How's the quality, though? Isn't the resolution pretty small?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
They're not terrible. I put it up on my computer monitor and sit a ways back, so it's not too much worse than seeing it on TV. Noticeably worse, yes, but not sight-impairing.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
It's about the same quality as if you've recorded it on a VCR tape.

And Adama makes me laugh. I loved the giggle fit he gave Roslin. [Smile]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Well in theory the planet should be hospitable for a few million people but I agree they should move on, staying is too dangerous the Cylons could find them at any moment and how would they evacuate in time?
 
Posted by Angiomorphism (Member # 8184) on :
 
Just a thought, if you are frustrated with the quality of the itunes download, and have no moral quelms about downloading tv shows for free, use bittorrent, the quality is great and they are available the night of the showing. I have Space channel (in canada), but since they are showing earlier episodes, I like to download them so I can be up to par with you american lads.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Well the synopsis from the very next episode tells that the cylons do find them. I will be very interested to see how all that plays out.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
Aaaaaand WHY did you post a spoiler?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Because he's evil.

But I'm going to post one several lines down, so heed the SPOILER WARNING:


*


*


*


*


According to the preview consistently seen on the SciFi channel, Baltar wins - or at least is in a position to give direct orders to Admiral Adama. Hoo-rah! Talk about interesting times!
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
I really disapprove of having spoilers in our bsg thread. I'm not sure why, cause I always look. But I think it impedes the flow of the thread to have posts some don't want to read. Then also you'll lose the voice of the fans who just won't open the thread because of the spoilers. Am I wrong?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
If it's in the commercial, is it really a spoiler?
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
Oh. Well, maybe not. I never gleaned that from the preview, but I don't tend to watch that carefully.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I figured the preview showed that Baltar wins the election, but you know how that goes...they were probably just trying to get us all ramped up for next week and it turns out that the election hasn't yet taken place but for some reason Roslyn is out of commission, which would put Baltar in charge anyway. [Smile] Gotta fake us out somehow.
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
Spoilers don't bother me. If anything, they only increase my interest in watching the episode to see the whole story, if the spoiler confirms that it's a good story.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Theaca:
Aaaaaand WHY did you post a spoiler?

The synopsis came from the Scifi channel's website. It's not a spoiler if it's posted in the official information. I don't post spoilers because I don't want to ruin your viewing experience. I do read myself, but I have not and will not post any here on the website. I agree with Carrie, it's not a spoiler if it's in the commercial or from the official information. That information would be classified as a "teaser".
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Bad news everyone.

October?
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I didn't know the ratings were down this year. Anyone think the competition will hurt the ratings, or that the new running-time will increase viewership?
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I wasn't aware that there had been a ratings drop either. Until the article mentioned that, I assumed that they were waiting until October because they felt confident that the show could compete in a tougher arena. Hm.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm just trying to remember numbers off the top of my head, so bear with me.

The S2 premiere had a 3.0 or 3.1 - amazing for a cable channel. The ratings dropped to a steady 2.1-2.2 throughout most of the season; recently, they've been in a bit more trouble. "The Captain's Hand" got the 1.7 they were talking about in the article.

Do I think moving to October's going to help? I doubt it. I don't know what the major networks are going to schedule on Friday nights, so I can't really comment on that, but this delay is certainly going to drive me nuts.
 
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
 
The finale is tonight! Yay!

And honestly, I figured there would be a ratings drop there. There were a couple of episodes that just were good, but mediocre compared to what we've seen. And Starbuck and Lee were not being fun to watch. However, the episode where the Pegasus got attacked by 3 base stars.... it picked up again and I was interested again. At least from my POV.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Yeah, well, you're a dork. [Razz]
 
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
 
You married me, so I don't want to hear it.

Wait a minute... no, I take pride in being a dork. Thanks, honey bunny.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anti-Chris:
And Starbuck and Lee were not being fun to watch.

I so completely agree. [Smile]

Hooray for 90 minutes of BSG goodness tonight!
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Wow, just wow. October can't come soon enough after a finale like that.

On a side note, what was with Admiral Adama growing a mustache? Was that really a necessary thing to convey passage of time?
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I didn't like that episode. I didn't like it at all. Those were events to spend an entire season on... not one episode. Or at least a couple of eps. The whole year passing thing, I thought it was like Baltar's bad dream. Kept expecting him to wake up, wishing he would wake up and realize the mistake of staying. Damn it, I want the next season to come so they can rectify this and restore this show to my favorite. Right now I'm rather unhappy with the direction its taking.

Edit to add: And what the hell is up with the Sharon's? Sharon1 thought she was human, she would have KNOWN how much human's value freedom above ALL ELSE. She would have known taking control would be a BAD IDEA. ...and cheif and Calle? Umm... err... no? Lt. Gedda working as Baltar's aid... yeah I can see it, he does kinda idolize the man, but COME ON. I woulda thought he'd be smarter than that. Specially after the way Baltar was acting. And they seemed to be suggesting way too much time passage for one year. And holy crap, sooo fracked up. No me gusta, no me gusta nada.

[ March 11, 2006, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Alcon ]
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
Ok, I think I missed the very end...my recording cut off abruptly. My recording ended when the cylons were on the planet, talking to Baltar. He asked how they found them...and the answer got cut off. The Cylon said that it was an accident and that they picked up of nuclear signature. That is when it cut off.

Did he say anything else...like what the signature was from...or what the Cylons were going to do to the humans? Why did the Cylons claim to want to let the humans free, but come back a year later.

Did it give us any clues for the next season?
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
Yeah, it showed peoples faces, with a voice over of 6 saying "We will show them mercy, and live with them, and they will love us for that, and with that love, we will gain unquestionable control." or something like that.

End of the episode:
Kevin Spacey dude: "We picked up radiation yadda yadda."
Baltar: "But... I'm the president of the colonies... I rule! I'm totally in charge."
Kevin Spacey dude: "Um... no... no you're not."
Baltar: "Crud... well, I surrender, then."
Kevin Spacey dude: "Here, have a cookie."
Baltar: "Thank you."

Sentinels walking down market place-
Starbuck: "What the frack... cylons!"
Chief: "What are we going to do, Captain?"
Starbuck: "Same thing we do every night, pinky, try to take over the world.
Chief: "Who's pinky?"
Starbuck: "Oh yeah...I mean... fight until we die!"

And then the theme from cheers starts playing, and everyone gets drunk.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Obviously a spoiler follows.


.
.
.
.


So now that they've been on NC for a year, I'm wondering when--and if-- they'll ever get back into space. And Baltar does a good job at being the elected official who just doesn't care.

--j_k

[ March 11, 2006, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
My brain exploded.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I had to work last night and I can't find part 2 of the season finale on Itunes [Mad] They usually have the episode available by now. Are they going to put it up? Or is there somewhere else to download it?
 
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 
I know they were fleeing the Cylons and times are rough, but they can't even make antibiotics. They have equipment on the ships. I just don't buy it.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Well, if there's no mold spores to grow on the bread... [Wink]
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
quote:
I know they were fleeing the Cylons and times are rough, but they can't even make antibiotics. They have equipment on the ships. I just don't buy it.
I think that their inability to produce medical suplies may be more a reflection of Baltar's incompetence and the mismanaged infrastructure than any technological limitation.

That whole "1 year later" thing really frustrated me as well, but after thinking about it, I think it was probably a good choice on the part of the directors. In short, I would rather have season three start with more Cylon-fighting goodness than several episondes of Baltar being a slimeball.
 
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
 
Here's a summary of the episode for those who missed it, but are spoiler whores.


SPOILERS!


Seriously...


Like... Spoilers


Here


Next line


Roslyn: People are stupid. Like... really stupid. Why are they voting for Baltar? Because they are stupid, that's why.
Her Aid: Yes, Madam President.
Roslyn: Tell me you have a back up plan.
Aid: There's always a backup plan.
Roslyn: That was really foreboding, what do you mean?
Aid: Uh... here, talk to this priest, for no reason, other than to bring him into view.


Tigh's wife: I wanna go to New Caprica!
Tigh: No, we are staying here, and protecting the ship.
Tigh's wife: But I waaaanna go to New Capricaaaaa!
Tigh: Fine, go, you can have all the men you want there.
Tigh's wife: Silly goose, I want you..... and other men.

Doc Connell: Kailey, you're mouth is wired shut. Get back to work, and I don't wanna hear no lip.
Kailey: I hate you.
Doc Connell: Yeah, well... you look pretty bad.
Chief: OMG, Kailey, I'm sorry. I feel pretty stupid and bad.
Kailey: I forgive you. Coincidentally, I also love you.
Chief: Ok... um... cool.

Back on Caprica

Anders: We're surrounded by cylons.
Starbuck: FIGHT UNTIL WE DIE!
Anders: Um... we could just go over there.
Starbuck: Yeah, lets go over there.
Anders: Hey, they stopped firing.
Sharon: Yeah, see, they don't want to kill all of us, they just want to knock us out with gas and steal our baby makers.
Starbuck: I like my ovaries where they are, thank you very much. Anders, if it comes to that, kill me.
Anders: Wait, what?
Starbuck: I'm going to point a gun at you, so you understand the seriousness of what I am saying. I will NOT go back to those farms.
Anders: Oh, I see... you have a gun. Gotchya.

On Galactica-

Baltar walks into a room where Roslyn is waiting.
Baltar: Laura, so good to see you again. Where's Adama?
Roslyn: Baltar, you're a smart man, right?
Baltar: Yes. Yes I am.
Roslyn: So if I act desperate, you'll understand that I know I'm going to lose.
Baltar: I would assume so, yes.
Roslyn: Please, for Gods sake, let me win.
Baltar: Wow, that is desperate.
Roslyn: I know.
Baltar: No... I think I'm fine with winning, just to prove a point. I really don't know why I'm running, anyway. See, the voices in my head tell me to do things.
Roslyn: You're a cylon conspirator.
Baltar: Oh shi... er.... I mean, I don't know what you are talking about.
Roslyn: Now who's acting desperate?

Back on Caprica-

Anders: If they wanted to kill us, they would have attacked.
Starbuck: Ya think!?
Helo: They're gone.
Convienantly placed Priest2: Thank God! Lets pray! "Oh cylon god who art in heaven..."
Helo: Um... did you say Cylon God?
Priest2: Uh... no.

On Galactica-
Ad. Adama: Welcome back.
Starbuck: Thank you.
Helo: Caprica's deserted.
Adama: Get this man a medic, he's crazy.
Priest2: It's true!
Chief: Hey wait a minute.... didn't I talk to you in the last episode? That means.... ::tackle:: HE'S A CYLON!
Priest2: Very good. Take me to your leader.

Priest1 being dragged in: I'm NOT a cylon, I'm NOT a cylon!
Priest2: Oh give it a rest.
Priest1: Oh... I see. Yeah, I'm going to just go in this cell, then.
Priest 2: Change of plans, dude. We've realized that we're better than humans.
Priest1: Amen, brother Me.
Priest2: Killing you guys? Yeah, apparently God doesn't want us to kill, and we sort of messed up... sorry about that. Our bad.
Adama: Your BAD?!

Election day!!

Announcer: Civilians are counting the votes, but the military is protecting it. Tom Zarek wants to make sure no one cheats.

Aid: Hello, Mr. Tigh is it?
Tigh: Hey, how's it going?
Aid: Yeah... you know what we talked about earlier?
Tigh: Rigging the election?
Aid: Yeah, that. Go ahead and rig it now.
Tigh: Ok!
Announcer: And... Roslyn gets more votes than makes sense! Amazing! She wins!
Zarek: Hey, I'm currupt, and I know curruption. They cheated.
Baltar: Dude... Roslyn wouldn't cheat.

An awkward scene with Starbuck, Anders, and Lee that does not exist. Starbuck acts girly, Lee gets pissed.

Geata: Hey, Mr. Tigh?
Tigh: Mr?
Geata: Well, its an ackward situation.
Tigh: Whats up?
Geata: Well, you see sir. The original ballots had a typo. These ones don't.
Tigh: Who the hell would notice this kind of thing?
Geata: I'm a closet grammar nazi, sir. I do this when people aren't watching.
Tigh: No... no... quit noticing. Go away, I'll take care of it.
Geata: You rigged it, didn't you.

Adama: Laura, Tigh rigged the election. He admitted to it, and will stand trial.
Laura: I kind of knew about it. But it was for the greater good!
Adama: I know. Baltar is not the best choice. But he is the peoples choice.
Laura: Baltar is working with the cylons!
Adama: Do you have proof?
Laura: No.
Adama: Then it's meaningless. I'm going to do you a favor. You are going to let Baltar have his victory, and we will be the servents on the people.
Laura: Wow, you're Mr. Ethical aren't you? Ok, fine.

Adama: Baltar, there was a miscalculation. You are the president.
Baltar: You cheated didn't you? I'm sooo investigating you.
Adama: I suggest you take your victory and be humble, or else.
Baltar: Interesting proposal, Mr. Adama. I accept.

Gina: I'm going to have sex with you Baltar, and I really don't know why.
Baltar: Sweet.

Baltar takes the oath, and Gina detonates a nuclear explosion.

Adama: Mr. President, this was a coordinated attack. I suggest we increase security.
Baltar: No, Adama. You see, when I became the president, I stopped thinking.
Adama: I see. So... we're screwed, aren't we?
Baltar: I'm afraid so. Lets go settle New Caprica, shall we?

One year later

Adama has a moustache.
Lee looks bigger.
Dee is his XO on the Pegasus.

The Chief is the leader of a workers union. Kailey is pregnant.

Baltar is still president, and a womanizer.

Anders is playing the ball game, even though he has pneumonia.

Starbuck yells at him. They are married. She has long hair.

Doc Connell has no antibiotics for Anders.

The population is down to 39,000+.

Roslyn is teaching school.

The cylon baby is chubby and cute.

Adama has a horrid moustache.

Horrid.

Dee: Sir, I am seeing something on Radar.
Lee: How can you see anything?
Dee: It's a cylon.
-radar shows a "we are so screwed" ammount of cylons and base stars-
Adama: I see them.
Lee: If we don't jump, we will be destroyed.
Adama: There are people down there.
Lee: So what!?
Adama: Ok, lets jump.

Cylons overhead flying around.

Baltar is in his office. The cylon models come in.

Caprica 6: Hey there, Gaius, how's it going.
Baltar: What the...
Boomer: We're just here to chill with you guys.
Baltar: How did you find us?
Kevin Spacey dude: "We picked up radiation yadda yadda."
Baltar: "But... I'm the president of the colonies... I rule! I'm totally in charge."
Kevin Spacey dude: "Um... no... no you're not."
Baltar: "Crud... well, I surrender, then."
Kevin Spacey dude: "Here, have a cookie."
Baltar: "Thank you."

Sentinels walking down market place-
Starbuck: "What the frack... cylons!"
Chief: "What are we going to do, Captain?"
Starbuck: "Same thing we do every night, pinky, try to take over the world.
Chief: "Who's pinky?"
Starbuck: "Oh yeah...I mean... fight until we die!"
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Anti-Chris [ROFL]

I'm not sure what to think about all that's happened until I know why the Cylons are trying to take them over. It's possible that they have something great in mind, but I feel a bit wary of the direction the show seems to be taking.

[ March 11, 2006, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Amanecer ]
 
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
 
Dude, I got nothing against Christ. Its that Chris guy I gots a problem with.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
LOL. I fixed it. [Razz]

quote:
Caprica 6: Hey there, Gaius, how's it going.
Baltar: What the...

I'm wondering if maybe that was Gina. Maybe after all of Gina's abuse, she convinced them that humans really couldn't be left to themselves?
 
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
 
No. It was Caprica 6. If it was Gina, they would have found them a whole lot sooner. Gina's gone. There was no ressurection ship for her.
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
Thanks, Anti-Chris. I had to record the episode for viewing later, and forgot it was a 90-minute episode, so I missed the last half hour. Now I have an idea what happened. Judging by the way you summarized the hour I did watch, you probably got it about right.

Although what Priest1 said was even more outrageous--he said "So we all just forgive and forget. No harm." Then Adama said "No harm???!! You exterrminated our race!"

Still, you summarized it pretty well. Thanks again.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
No. It was Caprica 6. If it was Gina, they would have found them a whole lot sooner.
Good point. I guess I was just hoping it was Gina. That would make more sense to me. [Frown]
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I don't know. It being Caprica 6 makes sense to me. I mean Caprica 6 and Boomer were leading the movement to leave the old human planets, so it makes sense that they were two of the ones in charge when they came to New Caprica. Plus Caprica 6 knew Baltar pretty well and still has a thing for him (at least judging from the episode 2 weeks ago). It made sense to me that she was the one there. *shrugs* Maybe I'm just weird though.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
Of course it makes sense in one way. But I bet Amanacer was just hoping our old friends Caprica 6 and Sharon 1 who seemed like such sympathetic characters who love humans hadn't actually come back to conquer humanity again.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I don't know. I think at least this way was peaceful (which seemed to click with Caprica 6 and Sharon 1 and their love of humans), rather than the old ways. I mean the Cylons could have easily just wiped out the human settlement. I think the way this invasion type thing went down is just sort of hinting at the direction Caprica 6 and Sharon 1's power has went in the year that we sort of jumped over. We also don't know how much power the third guy with them had. Maybe they're minority figures now, second to him or something. There's a lot left up in the air to explain. I think that's why I found it satisfying in the end. Nothing seemed totally out of character and there were a lot of loose ends that will need to be tied up in October.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm going to watch the episode again - and in full sequence with the previous three episodes - before I comment on it. Something's not exactly ringing true about it, but I want to give it a full context before I completely lambast it.

Perhaps in a day or two.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
My initial reaction to the episode was 'wait, this is like Magnum PI, right? Baltar will wake up next season and it was all a dream, a cautionary tale, right? RIGHT?' It almost seems too hopeless for them. If they wanted a way to nobly sacrifice the Pegasus as in the original series, here it is.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
An added thought - this will be a turning point episode for the series. We will either look at this upcoming sequence in season 3 as when BSG became one of the truly great Sci-Fi shows...or when it jumped the shark.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
I bet Amanacer was just hoping our old friends Caprica 6 and Sharon 1 who seemed like such sympathetic characters who love humans hadn't actually come back to conquer humanity again.
Exactly. [Smile]
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
Sharon is a #8.
 
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
I wasn't calling sharon a #1, I just think of her as the original and the other sharon who had a baby as as second copy. Doesnt she have an individual name for us to identify her, like Caprica Six does?
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
quote:
An added thought - this will be a turning point episode for the series. We will either look at this upcoming sequence in season 3 as when BSG became one of the truly great Sci-Fi shows...or when it jumped the shark.
Well, I used to say that no show should continue after season three because they usually lose their charm and original ideas after that point. But now I think that's because the people in charge of almost every show sees what their strengths have been, and they try to rely upon them to keep going instead of breaking new ground and finding new strengths and new ideas, avoiding the risk.

Maybe this is somewhat risky. But I can't ignore the feeling that this is the right thing to do. And I like it.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I think Ron Moore's got some serious balls.

No, really. I think he does.

I had to watch the episode twice. On first view, I felt cheated at the "one year later." So cheated that I was really pissed off at the BSG writers.

Then I watched it again.

The one year later, it's like it's a nightmare. The truly awful nightmare where you're desperately trying to wake yourself up so you can escape it. Normally, we hate the "magic reboot" and have a character wake up and everything that happened was a dream (a la Roseanne, for instance). Except now, the situation suck so fracking bad that we want someone anyone to wake up from this nightmare.

And why does Ron Moore have balls?

Because I don't think anyone is going to wake up. It's the nightmare that's the desperate reality. This stuff is storyboarded, it's got to be. The parallel between the mustache-Adama and the young Tigh trying to get into the Fleet, and then the again-mustached-Adama forcing the now-older-Tigh to retire.

The old desolate, breaking down Battlestar again. The walkabout of Adama's in the empty corridors, so different from the walkabout in the miniseries in the bustling corridor. Starbuck running through everyone.

Down on New Caprica, Starbuck running through people again, now trying to find Anders (DAMMIT WHY DIDN'T HE DIE?!)

Starbuck, instead of arguing and fighting with Tigh, running up and giving the man a hug. WTF?...except, Starbuck is attached to Anders because he's a piece of home (Caprica). Now with things so shitty on New Caprica, Tigh represents another home, that one being the battlestar.

I still want SOMEONE to wake up from this, it's awful, I hate it. It's depressing as hell.

But I think that's what we're meant to feel. It's certainly how our characters feel.

*sigh*

AND OCTFRACKINGTOBER!?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
I still want SOMEONE to wake up from this, it's awful, I hate it. It's depressing as hell.

I want somebody to wake up, but not because it's depressing. I feel cheated at missing a full year of character development. They took away showing us what happened, and just briefly summarized. I think that in a few episodes, this could have been fleshed out and made really interesting. Instead it was compacted into around thirty minutes.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Well, I have to say this about spoilers, synopsises, etc. Even knowing what was going to happen still did not diminish the experience I had watching the Ep. I have to say that it will always be better to see it, rather than read it.

Now, moving on. Someone said earier in the lastest groups of posts that RM is not going to have anyone wake up. Apparently he stated so in the Podcast. I haven't listened to the Podcast yet, so I can't confirm that. This is reality. I think that we should function from the POV that everything that happened in this ep is real and reflects the new direction that show is headed in. Now assuming that, this is a very risky position to be in. Essentially, even as a peaceful occupying force, the cylons are going to be hated by the colonists. However, if the both priests are any indication, the cylons, as a race, have stopped believing in a god (not including individual cylons like Caprica Six or Helo's Sharon). They look at the concept as a notion clung to by inferior lifeforms. What does that mean, a complete abandonment of the belief in an afterlife or accountablity to a higher purpose and devotion to science coupled with a facist outlook on government. This is really bad news for the colonists. If RM is using earth history as a reference, this would be an obvious reference to Nazi Germany in WWII. Now this type of society is constantly being explored in Scifi. Usually as a way of exploring the darkest depths of evil. What you've got now is a absent fleet, a hostage populace, and an overwelming occupying force. Season 3 should be very interesting.

This is a very brave move for RM and company. You really can go anywhere from here. However, I am going to bet that while Caprica Six and BSG Sharon think that the cylons will be benevolent rulers, they will again end up on the other side at the end of the season. As for Baltar.......he's screwed. Season 3 will see him outed as a Cylon conspiritor(sp?) to the general populace. So here comes President Zarek. Actually, I think Zarek is going to be the surprise breakout character of Season 3.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
What the frak! I was listening to the podcast and they said that Edward James Olmos is not coming back for Season 3!!! Okay, now that just sucks. What!!??!!

Edit: Yeah, they just drop that bomb like it's no big deal! What??!! No Admiral Adama. I really don't know what to do with that.
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
quote:
No Admiral Adama.
Can you say... Admiral Lee Adama?
[/rampant speculation]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
What the frak! I was listening to the podcast and they said that Edward James Olmos is not coming back for Season 3!!! Okay, now that just sucks. What!!??!!

Edit: Yeah, they just drop that bomb like it's no big deal! What??!! No Admiral Adama. I really don't know what to do with that.

... it was a joke. All the cast members have resigned to come back.

Or did you also miss the part about the completely CGI Admiral Adama?
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
Well, frankly I wouldn't mind a CGI Adama as long as they get rid of the mustache.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
You sure Carrie? I listened to it several times and it did not sound like it. However, I will bow to you and hope that you are correct!

You know what, now that I think about it, RM comments later on in the podcast about the first few episodes of Season 3 make me think that you are right. I hope I hope I hope I hope I hope I hope I hope I hope..........
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
A little bit of interesting news I lifted from elsewhere on the web. One possible reason for the October launch of BSG is that NBC is considering giving it a mainstream home. There's an interesting thought. Here's the link that I got the news from. BSG-NBC Link
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
For further confirmation...

Yes. It was most definitely a joke.

Though I agree, Admiral Stache has got to go, right along with Captain Fatpants (and yes, I know he's a Commander - this just sounds better).
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
quote:
Well, frankly I wouldn't mind a CGI Adama as long as they get rid of the mustache.
quote:
Though I agree, Admiral Stache has got to go, right along with Captain Fatpants (and yes, I know he's a Commander - this just sounds better).
*sigh* The demand for beauty over reality...

quote:
Because I don't think anyone is going to wake up.
I can't even sense the possibility that this would be a dream. I don't think there would be any purpose to it, other than to mess with the audience, and for as far as we've come it would be really stupid.

quote:
I feel cheated at missing a full year of character development. They took away showing us what happened, and just briefly summarized. I think that in a few episodes, this could have been fleshed out and made really interesting. Instead it was compacted into around thirty minutes.
I think everything we needed to know has been given. We already know the social and moral state of the survivors. Season "2.5" gave us all the degeneration leading up to the "one year later" point. We didn't really believe it would get better, did we? This is the timeline as far as I see it from the Cloud-Nine explosion (a symbolic way of telling us that the floating around in space saga is all but over) leading all the way up to the present occupation:

Life is stagnant. The battlestars are falling apart due to the fact that not enough people are there to maintain them, because there has been little need. The Cylons haven't been around to keep them on their toes, so the attention of the people has shifted to other parts of their lives. So our military personnel look rusty. It's not likely that they just decided to let go right away, they were probably cautious at first. People just forget about danger when enough time has passed. They start finding places for themselves on their new world. Roslin is now a school teacher, which makes sense. Baltar is a sleezy, careless power monger, which makes sense. Cally and Tyrol got together after that, I hesitate to call, "moment of bonding" back on Galactica, and are expecting. Starbuck and Apollo had some kind of falling out due to some mysterious event that occured between them in the intervening time, and I'm sure we'll get those details. Life is pretty dreary and sad. Otherwise, what else do we need to know?

We knew from season 2.5 that every individual and society as a whole was capable of becoming what they are at present. I think showing the decline from sharp to lax would take away the effect that having the new occupation would have. The purpose of the show is to explore the conflict of human society and those of individuals if they really were subject to genocide and exodus. How would we really know unless it actually happened? We don't, but I think this is an extremely fair take on what might happen.

This show isn't a short story after short story saga. It's a very long movie/series, and therefore it's subject to sticking to one major theme. There are great characters, and there is a great universe, and there are unique events, but the theme is the conflict. So no part of that conflict or its effect is to be sacrificed for any other props in the story.

I'm interested to see what Leobin wants with Starbuck. Possibly to continue the dialogue they once had in season one? And what is the agenda behind the Cylon "heroes" for the humans, now that they've changed the Cylon philosophy? And what will the fleet do? Will they find Earth before coming back?

[ March 13, 2006, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Khavanon ]
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
All this bagging on Cally and the Chief... Didn't you guys noticed she loved him from way back? Heck, I think it was even in the miniseries (I gotta go buy the miniseries so I can watch it and see now...)

As soon as Sharon went Cylon we should have known it was going to happen.

Pix
 
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 
quote:
I'm interested to see what Leobin wants with Starbuck. Possibly to continue the dialogue they once had in season one?
Did this happen in the final minutes? My DVR cut off the last bit [Mad] and I don't remember this.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
The falling out between Starbuck and Lee is her marrying Anders, isn't it? Remember that scene with her and Anders kissing in front of Lee? You could tell Lee was ticked off.

But maybe something else happened, too.
 
Posted by Maria (Member # 9209) on :
 
They put far too many changes into the last few minutes of the show for my taste.

It was interesting, however, that the Cylon motivation now seems to be to "take care" of the humans and make them behave. [Eek!] That's really going to rub a lot of people the wrong way!

And I did love the geekiness of them being one light year away, and showing up one year after the nuke went off. They must have blipped right over, the minute they finally detected the blast. [Big Grin]

Too bad the humans didn't think of that.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
We did learn that Starbuck is one mean ass drunk.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
Which is not all that surprising. [Wink]
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
When i first watched this episode it felt somehow 'wrong' to me. I don't exactly know why that was, it could have been the overload of information in the last ten minutes or perhaps the hope that Baltar would wake frackin up.

But then I watched it again, and I really loved it. It struck me how much the last ten minutes would either make or brake the show. Ron Moore took a huge risk and I really hope it works out well as there is just too much potential to waste, and I dont want to see a repeat of Alias. Sydney lost two years of her life but the writers couldnt quite pull it off.

I got the sense during two episodes in season two(Roslin dying and Lee floating in space) that the writers were trying to introduce Lost like flashbacks. This could be a way for us to see what happened in the missing year, and the more i think of it the more it seems likely. There is no way they could adequatly explain Starbuck and Lee not talking, Tyrol and Callies relationship forming etc. without them...

It only struck me when watching this series again that Roslin Is going to die. Maybe in season three maybe not. But the sad fact is that the prophesy(dont know if thats the right word to use but whatever)said she was going to die before they reached Earth. So unless the writers disregard the whole premis of the show, finding Earth, Roslin is going to bite the bullet...
As much as I love her, she really isnt needed anymore and i agree with ReddwarfVII, she wont become presedent once Baltar is ousted, Zarek will.

Sorry for wandering off topic there I just needed to get it out of me!!!
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
If BatGal goes to NBC, I think it will die after only one season, or less. I don't think it would have the kind of ratings expected for one of the major networks.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
As far as I know, the whole shift-to-NBC idea is quite old - and quite dead. While it is true that NBC owns the SciFi channel and could decide to change programming, I think the execs realized that BSG is far too, what - gritty? real?, far too something for mainstream broadcast television.

And so BSG will return to SciFi, where it belongs, in October, when it doesn't belong.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I have to watch it again...this weekend was full of Life Stuff, so I only had time to watch it on DVR late Friday night. I was blown away, especially with skipping ahead one year. I have had lots of questions over the weekend as the episode lay in the back of my mind:

* What happened to Helo and formerly pregnant Sharon? Did they kill her? Without the resurrection ship, it should have been safe to do so.

* As it became obvious how unsuitable Baltar was to be president, why in the world did they not impeach him and bring back Roslin? Further, once it became known that the nuclear device that destroyed Cloud 9 had been "stolen" out of Baltar's lab, how did he escape political death? Coupled with the earlier "cleared" implication that he'd been responsible for the destruction of the colonies, I can't imagine how he escaped impeachment.

* Where is Tom Zarek? He would have HATED Baltar's sink to dissipation and I think, likely to push for impeachment.

* After being destroyed to the point of only 30Ksome survivors, I really can't imagine the Battlestars sinking in support to the point they did in only one year. Think of how we felt with 9/11. Many more years later, we're still behind our military, even though there is disagreement whether we should still be in Iraq. And the patriot act passed again. It's hard to believe that Roslyn would sit back and allow Baltar to jeopardize the remaining survivors by reducing the military to such a skeleton.

Honestly, these questions are threatening my ability to suspend disbelief. But I have faith. I'm really hoping they didn't jump the shark.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Carrie, I have to say that your tone is getting a little snippy. Calm down girl, it's still just a TV show. [Wink] Thanks for the confirmation of the joke, I was really worried.

FYI, the link about BSG moving to NBC is a fresh link. The news story was published last Wednesday on March 8. I don't think that it is completely dead if Syfyportal.com is reporting it as current news. Here's a direct link to the source article. SyFy Portal Article I guarantee that this link is 100% spoiler free.

However, I agree that a move to NBC would spell death for the series. NBC has a reputation of doing that to good SciFi shows. seaQuest DSV was one of my favorites, until the second season. Then it sucked and didn't make sense anymore. Earth 2 also showed promise then went out to left field as well. I think that the pressures that come with being on a main network could be just as disastrous for BSG.

Edit: Carrie, not dissing you, just giving you crap! [Razz]

[ March 13, 2006, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Jeni, great questions. I have some thoughts on those.

1. Helo and Sharon: Helo was on the bridge of Galatica. As for Sharon, don't know, but I would doubt that they killed her off, since Helo is still on the ship. I don't think that he would have stayed if they had done that.

2. Impeaching Baltar: I agree totally, but I wonder if impeachment is an option. My college degree is in Poli Sci. Not trying to impress or anything, but from what I have seen of their government and what I know about ours from my studies, I don't think that BSG's government works exactly the same. Plus the key to staying in power is by keeping those in positions of influence and power happy. Baltar's government is obviously corrupt, so as long as he can keep those who control the government happy, the people are powerless. Even in our system of government, only congress has the power to remove the President. The voters can not. In a goverment as small as BSG's it would not be too difficult to stay in power through corruption regardless of ability to govern.

3. Zarek: Equally good question. Answer; Biding his time maybe? We know that Zarek wants to be President and I think that he went into the election eyes wide open to the kind of President Baltar would be. I would bet that he was waiting for Baltar's government to implode and he would pick up the pieces. Except, what kind of government would he want remains to be seen. Personally, I think that the occupation may turn him back into a hero. Resistance fighter is what he does best.

4. The general state of things: Apathy has sent in with depression and hopelessness. I'm also sure that Baltar has been heavily selling the idea that the Cylons will never find them on New Caprica.

Anyways, that's my theories, but I am probably totally wrong on all counts.
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
quote:
The falling out between Starbuck and Lee is her marrying Anders, isn't it? Remember that scene with her and Anders kissing in front of Lee? You could tell Lee was ticked off.

But maybe something else happened, too.

I think it was something that happened during the year, towards the beginning. It has to be more than just that drunken moment. Tigh says, "but that was such a long time ago," referring to whatever had happened between them.

quote:
* What happened to Helo and formerly pregnant Sharon? Did they kill her? Without the resurrection ship, it should have been safe to do so.
I don't think she's dead. Helo's still on the Galactica, which might mean that Sharon is still in the brig. Or maybe she's not, and wandering the ship, but the fact that they went to the trouble of losing her trust with Adama right before the gap might suggest that she's still there. The state of their relationship? Who knows.

quote:
* After being destroyed to the point of only 30Ksome survivors, I really can't imagine the Battlestars sinking in support to the point they did in only one year. Think of how we felt with 9/11. Many more years later, we're still behind our military, even though there is disagreement whether we should still be in Iraq. And the patriot act passed again. It's hard to believe that Roslyn would sit back and allow Baltar to jeopardize the remaining survivors by reducing the military to such a skeleton.

I think the crews from each battlestar started leaving on their own. As far as the military is concerned, I can see how only one year might be too soon to abandon the idea of defense, but unlike our world, there were no threats to track in their confined space. I think poverty and misery might have gotten the better of their "sharpness" and morale started sinking quickly. Military standards are hard to keep up with when you have little reason to focus, and when life is miserable. And maybe they believed there might really be a chance that a truce was met. The only explanation I have for the quick decline in military standards is if the terms of service for many of the service members had ended, and they wanted to start a new life for themselves. A US military term of service is usually four years, sometimes six. The show up to this point covered less than two years, so I can see how half of the personnel could have left by then. Replenishing those numbers would be almost impossible. The rest of the breakdown is probable in my opinion.

quote:
If BatGal goes to NBC, I think it will die after only one season, or less. I don't think it would have the kind of ratings expected for one of the major networks.
I don't think BSG is trashy enough for network television. [Wink]
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
So did the Cylons come to take over, or did they come to lend the humans -- who are clearly up the creek without a paddle at this point -- a helping hand?

Either way, I didn't really dig the episode.
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
quote:
Did this happen in the final minutes? My DVR cut off the last bit and I don't remember this.
Sorry, missed that. Leobin comes walking in to Anders's tent as the invasion is happening. Ander's vision is quite blurry do to his illness, but Leobin comes in to focus and says, "I'm looking for Kara Thrace. Do you know where I can find her?"
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
quote:
So did the Cylons come to take over, or did they come to lend the humans -- who are clearly up the creek without a paddle at this point -- a helping hand?

Either way, I didn't really dig the episode.

I think that's the cliffhanger. You have the two Heroes (Heroines) of the Cylons in direct dialogue with Baltar, leader of the humans. We know this is them because of Caprica Six's naive, disillusioned gaze of love towards Baltar the first moment she see him. And the Kevin Spacey type (who I think of as #1) is there with them, who's been a sort of leader character. While I can see them wanting to do the humans better, I can't believe it wouldn't be on Cylon terms. Because after all, the priest Cylon told us they "made a mistake" by commiting genocide, that they were becoming more like humans, and that was wrong. I didn't read anything into them feeling wrong by making humans "better".

One thing that interested me though, in the case of the priest Cylon, was that he wasn't concerned about dying at the hands of the humans, despite the fact that the resurrection ship was gone.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
The Kevin Spacey type is a #5, I think.

3 - D'Anna
5 - Kevin Spacey
6 - (duh)
8 - Sharon

Unknowns: Leoben, Simon, the Brothers Cavil.

I think the Cavil model is #1, or possibly #2, owing to the "longevity of preaching" statement made to Tyrol in LDYB,I and the dialogue (which was excellently done) between the two in LDYB,II - the whole "We've thought that for years/We could have told them that" spiel.

Just another two cents - and still not trying to be snippy. Just trying to share the info. [Smile]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I jave to wait... until bloody october... great. 8957594 OMFG, damnit I want more. It better last 5 seasons, 5 should be enough.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
also, am I missing scenes? when did sharon explain this bit of reasoning?
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
8+6=86, which is a code for death/destruction.
 
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
 
Out of curiosity, did anybody else like this episode? I'm not looking for people who might be on the fence.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
oh I loved it and once again Ron Moore shocks us. How the heck is humanity getting through this wow.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I just saw a few last night. First thing I noticed was that the show is not afraid to cast pretty women and then throw some dirt on them.

And I just watch if for the hot soldiers, ya'll. Lucy Lawless is stunning, she looks about a thousand times more attractive in "Epiphanies," than she ever did in Xena. I would have watched Xena if it had starred this Lucy Lawless. The woman they casted for Maya is also stunning. The chemistry between McDonnell and Olmos is something I'm going to miss. It's exquisite, they are both so tender towards each other. And McDonnell is a piece of work in her own right. It makes me want to go back and get some of her other movies, I'm just scared she has spent her career playing someone else's wife.

The best casting of a non-gorgeous soldier would be Racetrack. She nails the scene where the find new Caprica, down to the voice inflection in "habitable."

I expected Lee to be fat due to all of the hype. He did look softer around the jowls and fuller in the belly, but he wasn't fat. I feel bad because maybe he didn't gain weight for the part as much as he kind of just aged regular.

Tyrol's union speech is a lovely knock off of one of the more famous student speeches in the twentieth century. This here former golden bear got a big smile on his face when Tyrol started channeling Mario Savio.

I'm a little worried about next season. Watching the scenes on Caprica may be predictable. I just hope the whole business doesn't end with a cylon mothership exploding.

_____

Hopefully, the final dynamic will be an uneasy peace.

[ March 15, 2006, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
jeniwren, the Sharon who was pregnant lived. They were going to abort her baby, then Baltar showed that because the baby combined the "perfect" DNA of the Cylons with the DNA of humans, her blood would cure any illness. Baltar used blood from the unborn fetus to cure Roslin of her cancer. Then of course they had to let the baby live. However, they gave the baby to another woman in secret to raise as her own, and told Sharon that the baby died in childbirth. So Sharon is embittered.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I actually loved the show. The whole one year later thing was a shock at first, but upon my second viewing of the episode, I think that the build up to it actually prepared us for the leap forward in time better than you realize. It was like RM took the worst case senario that would happen after Baltar took over and said, yes, that is what happened. I think that the bigger risk was actually having the Cylons find the colony and begin an occupation. What I am wondering about now is how the heck are they going to get out of this one without a hugmoneous loss of life.

Personally I think that for RM to spend two or three episodes showing the slow slide into the state of hopelessness that the colonists are in now would have been....boring. This play of his keeps the tension way, way up and gets us excited about next season.

In fact, now that I think about it, I really like the idea of jumping a year ahead and showing the end results of settling on New Caprica. I'm kind of impatient and it was actually satisfying to see all of these relationships pan out. I'm sure that the character development would have been lovely to actually see, but the driving force of this series is the constant conflict between the humans and the cylons. Without that, the show loses much of its momentum. I think that was fairly clear during the last season when you had shows that did not revolve around this central premise.

What I am now excited to see is why are the cylons on New Caprica in the first place. According to the priests, both species were supposed to go their separate ways. If that was so, why did they care about following the nuke signature? Those are the type of questions that I am interested in knowing the answer too.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
The basic problem I had was that they never really resolved the nuclear detonation on Cloud 9. Admiral Adama reported to Baltar that the nuke had been stolen from his lab, but beyond that there seems to have been no investigation. I mean, the destruction of one of the most significant ships in the fleet, the deaths of thousands of people, and they just gloss over it. I didn't buy it. They could have at least shown Baltar making a speech about it.
 
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
 
He made his speech to Adama alone, and ordered him to begin settlement. That couldn't leave much time or effort for an investigation that the administration doesn't support on two levels (A: being guilty of it, and B: conflicting with his campaign promise). It was also a slight reversal of situations that Baltar pulled on Adama after the whole rigged election / no investigation speech between the two.

Another unanswered question is what the Cylons did (will do) with the humans from the farms. They probably released what was left of them... But doing so on a nuclear wasteland of a planet wouldn't be the best showing of goodwill. I wonder if they'll relocate all humans to New Caprica (or some other planet they can watch more easily).

It probably won't happen, but I'd find it interesting to see the humans fragment somewhat like the cylons appeared to. Having a majority of the half on the planet living with the Cylons in what they find to be peace while the fleet plus escapees continue their battle / relocation from before.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
If I remember the episode about the farm, I thought that if the humans were disconnected from the machines they were hooked up to, then they all died. Can anyone else confirm that? Maybe there weren't any humans left over from the farms.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
**Bump**

Any word on when the second half of season 2 is goin to be released on DVD?
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
First 10 episodes already available.

The remaining 11 episodes will be released on September 19th, 2006.

So, I've been thinking about what will take place in season three. Heres what I've gotten.

First)

The Galactica and Pegasus have no idea whats taking place, and will plan a counter attack on New Caprica. Bill Adama will suggest using the Blackbird for recon, but Lee will inform him that that the Blackbird isn't available.

Second)

"The Cylon 3" (consisting of Caprica 6, Boomer, and Kevin Spacey clone) will pressure Baltar into announcing to the public his surrender. Baltar gives a speech to the populus telling them that humans and cylons can coexist, and that blood be not shed, yadda yadda yadda. The cylons will even supply power, medicine, food, etc.

Third)
Starbuck says to anders that she will return with help before the announcement of peace. She gives orders to the Chief and Kylie to maintain a ceasefire until her return. She sneaks off and finds the blackbird, which she had been hiding for this past year.

4) Using Tom Zarek's influence and voice, Baltar convinces the council of the colonies to approve much needed assistance from the cylons.

5) Starbuck arrives at the Pegasus. Since the blackbird is running off the updated jump coordinates, she is able to find them with ease. Hostilities continue with Starbuck and Apollo. They plan a counter attack.

6) Tom Zarek continues to support Baltar, until he catches Caprica 6 and Baltar going at it. He overhears them talking about Baltars guilt at the near Xenocide.

7) The Cylons provide better structures and power. They rebuild the earth to space transporters. And they start to provide much needed medication, Anders being one of them. Rosalynn actively campaigns against co-existance with the cylons, and convinces many people not to accept their help. The cylons respect their wishes for political/tactical reasons to show they aren't aggressors anymore. After visiting the doctors, some patients are pronounced "dead", again, Anders being one of them. The cylons take the bodies. And when they take the bodies, we find out that they are not dead at all, but alive and captives to the cross breeding experiments.

Kylie is also one of them, since she is already pregnant, this gives them an oppurtunity to conduct tests on a pregnant woman as well.

8) The chief goes into a huge state of grief, attacking the cylons and successfully destroying the vessel for the Kevin Spacey dude, who is now downloading into another body, who do not return fire. They hold the Chief prisoner and give him a trial and convict him. No death penalty.

9) Starbuck has been returning to New Caprica on a daily basis, and then returning to the Battlestars with updated reports. She remembers back when she was on Caprica, how she was a prisoner in the crossbreeding camp. She follows one of the dead bodies to a facility and see's for herself what is going on.

10)The cylon child gets discovered.

11) The battlestars launch a massive counterattack, during which The Pegasus is nuked. Lee is badly wounded, but Dee is dead. The Pegasus crashes into New Caprica. The Galatica finishes the other basestars, and continues sends transports to the existing facilities Starbuck saw. Many die.

12) The "capitol" is finally retaken. At this point, Tom Zarek plays a recorded message of Baltars admitted betrayal. Baltar is taken prisoner, but escapes with the Cylons.

Hows that for a season 3?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
A couple notes on the above:

S2.5 will be on the 19th (talk about a happy TLAP day!) and will have 11 episodes, but one of them is the long and un-cut "Pegasus." S3 premieres 6 October.

As for that S3... um... the Blackbird was destroyed in RS,2. Remember when Lee went suicidal in space? It was because he ejected from the Blackbird when a piece of a Raptor hit it because he was watching the pretty boom.

I think Leoben is going to get hold of Kara and talk to her more about her "destiny" and all that. Maybe the Cylons made a baby after they took her ovary or something. I was watching "Hand of God" the other day, and realized something. Everyone assumes that the "dying leader" in the Scriptures was a reference to Roslin, which was nicely set up and all, and the visions of snakes, blah blah blah. What if that line of verse actually refers to Starbuck, as Baltar/Six-in-head thinks? The line in that episode was "Led by a vision of serpents numbering two-and-ten," which is the exact number of Vipers Starbuck used in her plan to get the tylium from the asteroid. With all the references by Leoben to her destiny, it makes some sense that Starbuck is actually the prophesized leader. And maybe she is dying. Who knows?

I'm really excited to hear more explanations of the missing year, what with Tom Zarek and his apparently failed vice-presidency, and the breach between Starbuck and Apollo, and why Gaeta is so openly sycophantic, and why Starbuck and the Tighs are on good terms and, and, and...

Is it October yet?
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
I had repressed the memory of the blackbird. Darn it, I liked that ship.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I think it's possible that the cylons will set up a much better civilization that a section of the humans will prefer, even though they know they're subjugated. This will create an insurgency among the humans to resist the cylon overlordship, which will have to remain underground, not only to keep the cylons from discovering them, but to keep from being ratted out by their fellow humans. I think a large number of them will be so tired of the space nomadic life *and* the hand to mouth scratching out a living on New Caprica that they'll chafe a little at being ruled by the cylons, but otherwise be happy just to have their comfortable lives back, even though it's less a little freedom. Within the insurgency, there will be conflict of leadership between Zarek and Roslyn. It will become clearer who Baltar really is, but he'll continue to work out his weasely ways.

The cylon child will not be discovered but the secret will continue to be threatened the entire season, until the end, when something surprising will happen.

Anyway...I'm suffering from House withdrawals more than BG, but fall is still too far away no matter what the series. [Smile]
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
"The cylon child will not be discovered but the secret will continue to be threatened the entire season, until the end, when something surprising will happen."

Thats just vague enough to work. [Smile]

It's confirmed, btw, that one of the big characters are going to die. The options we have that won't piss viewers off to the point of killing the show:

Zarek
Helo
Anders
Kylie
Dee

Those are the only deaths that would make it so the show didn't suck.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Well, I think Anders is a given to die, but I don't consider him one of the "big characters." He's more supporting-to-get-in-the-way. And even though he's a looker, I don't like him.

Dee should be a Cylon. Dee or Gaeta, but I actually like Gaeta, so it should be Dee.

Helo and Zarek - and Cally! - can't die.

I think the "big character" death would be someone we consider essential - like Sharon. The Sharon who had the baby, not the downloaded Sharon. Maybe the other Cylons will find her when the RTF jumps back to kick the Cylons the frack out of New Caprica. And because she didn't have the baby, they'll box her, but then D'Anna will find the baby on the planet.

I have no idea. I'm staying as spoiler-free as humanly possible, though not avoiding official teasers (like the one scheduled to air tomorrow during the premiere of "Eureka"). I found that Revenge of the Sith was awesome the first time because I didn't know what was coming (aside from the basics), and I'm hoping spoiler-free BSG will absolutely blow me away.
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
Okay this is a wee bit spoilerish so um beware i guess...


Ausiello at Tvguide.com has confirmed that the main character to die will be a woman....and that it wont be Katee Sackhoff or Mary McDonnell....so Starbuck and Roslyn are safe....for the moment any way....It will not be Sharon!!! Her death Would be meaningless! Yes I would be unconsolable if our Sharon was killed but in the end...for a death to really 'hit home' as the producers have said, the dead character cant just show up as another version of the same model a few minutes later....Thats why Im saying a silent goodbye to D....

I am also of the opinion that it aint Roslyn who will lead humanity to Earth....I also caught the Twelve Vipers thing...and if you remember, it wasnt Roslyn that retrieved the Arrow from Caprica....It was supprise supprise...Starbuck...
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Hope everyone's planning on watching the premiere of "Eureka" tonight, as there'll be a preview of the upcoming season. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
I do not like the idea of any more main characters winding up being cylons. Sooner or later you start asking the question, "Okay, if he/she was a cylon, why didnt she do yadda yadda yadda to destroy the whole fleet back in episode yadda yadda yadda"

The idea about starbuck being the one that leads them to Earth is a neat idea. Its got merit I guess, but its just speculation at this point. The prophecy spoke of a dying leader. But at this point shes not dying, nor is she really what I would consider a leader. I'll put more weight onto this theory when either of those things come to pass
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
I'm pretty sure it's going to be Dee who kicks the bucket due to an exploding pegasus. Heres why.

First:

Lee is a green Commander of a battlestar. He works better as a soldier not sitting behind giving orders.

Second:

Lee and Dee's relationship is pointless, just as much as Billy's death was. Where is it going? The only point I can see of it is to keep Lee's mind preoccupied and away from depressing thoughts, and to keep him away romantically from Starbuck. So Dee is going to die, and so is Anders. I hate Anders.

Third:

I've been waiting for the Pegasus to blow up for 9 episodes. Darn it, I want an exploded Battlestar. And that would provide an excellent death for Dee.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
and how would the death of the ONLY well armed battlestar able to take on 2 Basestars be meaningful? Pegesus will be around for several seaosns yet.
 


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