As a writer trying to get published, I keep sending stuff out, and getting back rejection slips. I've read all the guidelines, including the numerous variants of "Plots we see all the time."
Then I open up the latest issue of Asimov's, and there's a story by Harry Turtledove that is straight out of "Plots we see all the time." It's the Twilight Zone plot - where a nazi/racist/sexist finds himself as the oppressed and the tables are turned. It's been done to death.
Nothing against Harry Turtledove, but would an unknown writer get such a story published? Anywhere? I seriously doubt it. So much for Asimov's assertation that they judge solely on the quality of the story.
Don't think I'll waste my time submitting to them anymore. Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Ouch. Rejection hurts. Good luck submitting elsewhere.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
*Splashes cold water over MoonRabbit*
Snap out of it!
He's Harry Turtledove. I mean, you know he's a well-regarded author with a huge following, right? I mean, I don't mean to sound like a dick, but I could not be less sympathetic to this post.
Your job as a writer is to produce fiction so good Asimov's has no choice but to buy it, not to complain when they publish the work of best-selling writers instead.
You seem to be saying, without saying it, that Turtledove's story is inferior to yours, and therefore there is some kind of favoritism at play.
Which is such crap.
Don't bite your hand off to spite your face.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
No, an unknown writer wouldn't.
Trying to become known means not using conventional plots--well, at least in conventional ways.
Keep at it.
Posted by Crotalus (Member # 7339) on :
Here's what I think causes this somewhat unfair reality:
Name recognition counts for something. It is also more likely to move a magazine off a shelf or garner more subscribers. If there is a magazine out there that has great stories but only by people no one has ever heard of, then there is no 'big name author' to advertise on the front. So, while Turtledove may be able to get away with this story, an unknown would not.
Magazine subscriptions have been steadily declining for several years. This is another factor to consider--another reason while a well known writer on the cover is a desirable thing. Most magazines have to make money to stay afloat.
Also, look at it this way. Turtledove has proven himself a great writer. An editor doesn't have to wonder if the story will be well written. Chances are it will be.
Another thing, just because they say they never want to see it again, I wouldn't necessarily believe it. IF you can present the story in a powerful and fresh way, then it might, MIGHT, stand a chance. Again, of course, these chances are better if your name is well known.
These truths are sad to those of us who have yet to crawl from the slushpile. One thing I would say Moonrabbit is to persevere. Don't let repeated rejection completely discourage you. Most writers have lots of rejection slips.
I read somewhere that Stephen R. Donaldson's bestseller "Lord Foul's Bane" was rejected some forty plus times before it was finally published. Keep writing, and keep submitting to Asimov's. But also try submitting to some of the semi-pros. Start at the top and work your way down, and while you are doing it, keep writing, keep honing your craft, keep learning.
Last bit of advice: If you haven't already been critiquing and submitting for critique over in the writer's forum here at hatrack, then by all means do so. A piece I wrote and got feedback for actually won first place in a local contest. The folks over there know how to critique and are very helpful. They can probably point out where you might be going wrong in your writing. Try it, and good luck!
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
It is also possible that Harry Turtledove can take a tired plot and turn it into something worth reading.
I suppose it's possible he just gives Asimov's his "B" level work. But really, their goal is to sell magazines and retain subscribers.
Ah well...everyone else has offered the encouragement I would echo. Don't give up.
Maybe you should write a story about how some famous author's stories were really generated by a computer that got crosswired with the "done to death" list at Asimov's.
Throw some sex in.
It's a sure winner!
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: Maybe you should write a story about how some famous author's stories were really generated by a computer that got crosswired with the "done to death" list at Asimov's.
Roger Zelazny did this one... it's written from the perspective of his computer and one of my favorites. It's called "Loki 3278" (I may have the number wrong) and it's in the Frost and Fire collection. Grab, read, and enjoy.
and good luck... making a living as an artist is always going to be frustrating... and look at it this way: at least you're not a pop singer... where your career would be over if you haven't made it by 25 or if you aren't constantly drooled over by memebers of both sexes.
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
I liked that story, even if the idea has been done to death. I thought it was entertaining, at least.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
No story has been done to death. A good writer can find a way to make it interesting again, otherwise none of us would ever write anything.
I have no clue if Turtledove's story is "better" than yours, but the use of a hackneyed plot idea isn't enough to tell.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I agree. Asimov's in is the business to sell magazines, and Turtledove's name is going to help them sell magazines. Your name won't - so to generate sales off of your work it's got to be something really spectacular. You've got to get their attention - and usually you get it with original, fresh ideas.
And Chris is right - every story can be retold. In fact, some folks would argue that all stories are essentially the same - mythic heroes share characteristics going back to Beowulf.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
Well, I completely sympathize. I have the same issue. I read 3 of the stories so far (not Turtledove's). In 2, nothing really happens. The 3rd was exciting, but is resolved by someone off-stage deciding to rescue the situation. One of these stories had the assumption that space aliens can interbreed with humans. It wasn't humor.
I start to wonder how editors decide what to accept. Most of the stories in that issue are by published novelists, so that's one thing. There is favoritism at play: published SF writers can publish things that aren't very good. For that matter, George Lucas can produce Star Wars Episodes I-III, because he did IV-VI. But two authors in that issue had no credits in their blurbs.
And:
After the griping is done, we still have to submit if we're going to get published.
Posted by His Savageness (Member # 7428) on :
Ugh. As far as I'm concerned, that's favoritism. If Turtledove can get his story published in a magazine, anyone should be able to. (Or am I the only one that thinks Turtledove is a hack?)
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
How dare you I happen to be a Fan of turtledove I admit he's not that good as a writer but the idea's he puts forward are amazing, though I also will say that "Days in Infamy" (about a scenario where Japan invaded Pearl) and "In the Midst of Mine Enemies" (about a family of Jews trying to pass themselves off as everyday Germans in Reich that won the second and third world wars) were really well done.
Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
I can understand your frustration, MoonRabbit. And it's okay to be upset. Get angry, get irritated, but keep writing and submitting. And don't get too confident about the quality of your own work.
I wonder if this formula of only (or mostly only) buying stories from well-known authors might be part of the problem. I always view fiction magazines to be an outlet for new writers, where all that's required is real excellence, not merely a reputation of it.
But the editors at these magazines have gotten into the old habit of putting a big name on the cover and hoping it sells. Sort of like movie companies putting a big name on a movie to sell it instead of relying on the movie's quality.
This may work and diminishing sales might just be a sign of the times. Of course, this may also be the source of the problem.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I think Turtledove has written some great stories and books. I generally reread "Guns of the South" and the Vardessos books every year, I like his sshort story collections, and his Toxic Spell book is hilarious.
And some of his stuff leaves me absolutely cold. The assorted Word War series were great the first couple of books but I got bored, frankly. And his fantasy WWII series did nothing for me.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
The last two of Turtledove's short stories I have seen would not have gotten published under a different name...but he already has a name that will sell magazines, so he can be a bit lazy when he is writing and still get published.
Though, at this point I wouldn't pick up a magazine simply because he has a story it it. On the other hand, if you want to see good short story writing...find a story by Matthew Hughes
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
well. a good short story by Harry would be the one where the Muslims took Constantinople in 1000 AD rather then 1400, essentially chridtianity becomes islands in a sea and Russia becomes muslim.
Posted by His Savageness (Member # 7428) on :
quote: And his fantasy WWII series did nothing for me.
This was the series I attempted reading. I hated it so much that I disavowed all other Turtledove books. That's closed-minded of me, I know, so I will make a resolution to try another Turtledove book. Any recommendations?
Posted by Crotalus (Member # 7339) on :
Try "Guns of the South". By far his best, IMO.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
New writers have to be much better than average to make their first sale in a first-rate publication (which Asimov's is). Established writers can generally publish all their adequate work, not just their very best, because editors are predisposed to give it a sympathetic reading, and because their name can add cache to the magazine cover.
But don't worry. Hang on to all your adequate work and when you hit with your best work, you can offload your adequate work elsewhere ...
Posted by MoonRabbit (Member # 3652) on :
I didn't mean to imply that I'm a better writer than HT - far from it. I also didn't mean to imply that good, readable stories by established authors shouldn't get published.
I'm just irked that a publication that must get thousands of submissions a month, and promotes itself as a publication that chooses stories to publish based on originality and quality would do something so blatantly based on name recognition.
Since my stories lack both originality and quality, I don't really expect them to get published anyway.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote: Since my stories lack both originality and quality, I don't really expect them to get published anyway.
Have you tried a writer's workshop? Maybe you can improve your writing AND your self esteem.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
I would like to improve my self-esteem, but I don't think I'd be any good at it.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Days of Infamy and In the Midst of Mine Enemies are IMO his best works.
In the latter when the German teacher yells "Jews!" I jumped. The story is riveting, his world war series where aliens invade in 1942 is interesting though not all that well writen the concept is enough to keep your reading.
His WWI series has an ever greater break from history with the successful seccesion of the Confederates and is up to the 40's now. Better writen and somewhat more interesting.
Though the first 2 I mentioned are better if you don't want to spend much money.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Will B: I would like to improve my self-esteem, but I don't think I'd be any good at it.
Whatever you will to be, will be, Will B. Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
Good! I'm looking for a date with Kay Serah! And a job with Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:I would like to improve my self-esteem, but I don't think I'd be any good at it.
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