Yeah, so after reading a few of his friend's online journals, I find out...
They're all happy we broke up.
And they want me gone, period. Not even friends with him.
How am I supposed to handle this?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Cry in the comments section.
-OR-
Talk to Matt. Other friends are important, but your friendship is with him.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
What do you care what they think? Though frankly, if I were Matt's friend, I would agree. The last thing he needs is a committed theist to clutter up his thinking. Particularly if she is even moderately pretty.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
KoM, there are days you really make me laugh. Thanks for the giggle. Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
I didn't think a committed theist could clutter the thinking of another committed theist.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I suspect KoM is afraid of mutual reinforcement. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I guess it would depend whether their waves were in phase or not -- they could cancel each other out.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Or they could cause beats, if they're just slightly out of phase.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Life is so different now. When I was your age, we had to indulge in gossip. Nowadays, there are online journals.
You probably don't have to walk 20 miles to school, uphill, in the snow, with razor blades strapped to your feet instead of boots.
Kids today!
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
No, but last year, it took me ten minutes to walk uphill from my parking spot. Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I agree entirely, Shvester. Do you think she could take moral instruction from my little talk about going to school in Norway in my youth, with the wolves and polar bears and all?
And on a more serious note, reinforcing someone's faith is cluttering their thoughts. And you would certainly try for that, yes?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, what I wouldn't have given to have had razor blades strapped to my feet instead of boots. Some of us had it rough. We couldn't afford razor blades or straps--we had to make due with jamming shards of broken bottles into our feet before wading 30 miles to school, uphill through an open sewer the entire way, in driving sleet. And did we complain? No!
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Wolves with sticks?
And I think that faith can be a helpful adjunct in being a good person. While not an requisite for being a good person and doing the right thing, religion is helpful for many in achieving those worthy goals.
No?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
in driving sleet.
You had driving? We would have felt privileged to consider it.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: And did we complain? No!
Yeah, right.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Actually, my sister tells me that the wolves in the Bergen area have learnt to knap flint, and are making quite serviceable axes. Plus, of course, the global climate change caused by American overconsumption is causing the snowstorms to extend into June now.
And as for faith, I think it generally does more harm than good, to ethics as well as critical thinking. Most people are really quite decent, with or without faith.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Do you think she could take moral instruction from my little talk about going to school in Norway in my youth, with the wolves and polar bears and all?
I lived in Alaska during 2nd and 3rd grade, and I walked to school. There were quite a few incidents where we weren't allowed outside for recess because of moose, bears, or wolves on the playground.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:the wolves in the Bergen area have learnt to knap flint
Knapping wolves? Golly!
quote:And as for faith, I think it generally does more harm than good
I knew that you thought that. Tell me something I don't know.
Me, I'm baales teshuvah , and I find it to be a very postitive change.
Perhaps you could try it, to promote a balanced view.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Pfft. Sissy Americans. Any wolf that dared show itself on a playground in Norway would be killed, skinned, and eaten. The ears make excellent trophies.
Posted by Sister Annie (Member # 8480) on :
quote:Life is so different now. When I was your age, we had to indulge in gossip. Nowadays, there are online journals.
I really am serious when I say that LiveJournal is going to be the death of us all.
Either that, or the impetus for a heckuva fun new trend in romantic novels.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote: LiveJournal is going to be the death of us all.
There's a theory that states it is what killed the dinosaurs.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
So you're saying that the dinosaurs kept active blogs? Now if only we could find the fossils to prove it...
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The wolf descendant who lives in my home is a napping wolf.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
All roads lead to Rome.
And all Hatrack threads lead to puns.
It's sad, really.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
It's the punultimate transition.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
It's the outbreak of the Fourth Punic War.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
Tinros:
If they're not your friends, then why let it get to you? People talk and people take sides anytime a relationship ends up not working or falling apart. It's part of being human. A number of people I thought were my friends disappeared or said unkind things after my divorce. Granted, your split up may not be completely like a divorce, but there are still elements that are similar.
The point is-- people take sides. What should you do? Nothing...go forth in peace and fret no more. In the end, the folk that talk nasty about you on their journals are just making themselves look foolish. So, take the high ground and move on. Grieve, don't read their prattery, and let all of this go.
Unless, of course you have a vengeful spirit--then there's always a place for writing your own nasty journal. Somehow, however, I doubt you would stoop to this level.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
It's the attack of the killer <b>'s
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
So much for trying to boldface...I forgot about the new stuff on this board. Obviously, I've been gone longer than I realized. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You have to type with [these] instead of <these>. Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Boycott live journals. Too many people use them as a way to tell people things that they wouldn't dare say to their face.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
Yeah, I learned something new. Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Boycott live journals.
I always do. Gossip is ever so much more satisfying.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Live journal, for the purpose of furthering social relationships or the act in any way of contributing to a social relationship, is the devil incarnate.
I have a Livejournal, as do most of my friends, but it is primarily used just to say "I had a bad day at work, blah blah blah, but I went to Cedar Point yesterday and blah blah blah" It's nothing of value, just venting out my day. I despise people who solve their problems or communicate via Livejournal. It's going to ruin their social skills when they are older, and realize they can't communicate with their loved ones by way of a website!
Livejournal is the devil! DEVIL!!
Seriously Tinros, stop reading his LJ, and stop reading his friends' LJs. If you want to know something then call him and ask him.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Here's the main problem. The two people causing the biggest problems are his best friend and his best friend's girlfriend. Matt has every, and I mean EVERY class with his best friend, including lunch. Meaning, I can't ever see him, because I think the two might be joined at the hip.
Even if I can't love Matt, his friendship is something I value highly, as I consider him one of MY best friends.
Oh, and by the way? Even MATT says his best friend is a jerk. Everyone I know does. And Matt's tried to get away from him before, just to spend time alone... doesn't work. They're two of the best computer programmers in the state, so they do EVERYTHING together. Same church, too, even though his best friend doesn't really listen to what the pastor says, cuz he's too busy with his girlfriend.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
*whisper* Tinros, are you sure he isn't gay? Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
VERY sure, Tom.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
quote:They're two of the best computer programmers in the state
No, they're not.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: *whisper* Tinros, are you sure he isn't gay?
That's precisely what I was thinking.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Listen, I don't want to have to tell you again, I have my reasons to know he's not gay, but those are between him and me, and no one else. Please don't suggest it again.
And let me clarify: Matt is in the top ten of STUDENT computer programmers, in the Business Professionals of America competition. His best friend was between 11 and 30.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Umm, Tinros, exactly why do you want to have anything to do with this guy?
Seems like you stroke his ego and he, well, doesn't do anything back for you.
Go. Do. Enjoy. Live. Love. Just let the jerk twist in his own winds. He's not going to drop his friends for you and they aren't going to drop him over you. What good does any of this do for you? Seems like a lot of heartache for little payout.
Go find your own life and enjoy the heck out of it.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
but the best programmers don't do BPA, at least not here.
And who cares if he's gay, I'm pretty sure Tom was joking, or at least using a sort of humor you have to be more mature than you are (or really I am) to to understand
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
When these people can do well in a region with that many people in it, it is clear to me that the BPA does not accurately reflect the makeup of students in the state.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Matt does BPA through the school. He does HTML programming stuff. Trust me, he's GOOD. I've seen what he can do. And unless the region that includes Columbus was OHIO ONLY, it wasn't a competition he was in. He won in my region, and placed top ten at state.
Matt isn't the problem. He's trying to break away from his best friend some so he can be with me a little, but his friend won't let him. Hence the problem. And Matt has taken a vow of honesty, so he can't lie to his friend and tell him he's doing yardwork or whatever to get out of stuff.
It's not Matt that's the problem.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
First, writing HTML is not programming.
Second, the region is Ohio only, but only part of Ohio. I'm not saying it was a competition he was in, I'm saying that those people could do well in a BPA competition in such a good-sized (people-wise) region demonstrates the problems with judging someone based on their success in BPA competitions.
Third, since he does web design, surely you can link me to a site he has created?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
if he has a friend so close that he's not able to do anythning else, he probably is to dependant on them.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: He's trying to break away from his best friend some so he can be with me a little, but his friend won't let him.
I don't understand how this is possible. Does it involve chains?
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
He's in the process of making a site for his dad, who teaches trumpet, but his computer crashed, and he has to start from scratch.
He also builds computers from scrap. and programs them himself.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Um.... Russell, be gentle. There's a big fish/small pond thing going on here, and it's going to take Tinros a while to adjust to that.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
from scrap or scratch? if he does it from scrap steel I want to see one.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote: He's trying to break away from his best friend some so he can be with me a little, but his friend won't let him.
I don't understand how this is possible. Does it involve chains?
I mean, aside from the fact that they have every class together, are involved in all the same activities, and his friend constantly calls him? I was on the phone with him earlier, and when his friend called, matt hung up on him. Plus, their church activities on sunday and wednesday and certain other days(concerts and trips and stuff) place them together. His friend won't leave him alone. And here's the thing- His friend would abandon Matt for his girlfriend(who is a freshman, while we are seniors). I think it's ridiculous, but hey, I'm just an immature kid, right?
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: from scrap or scratch? if he does it from scrap steel I want to see one.
Scrap parts that he gets out of dumpsters.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Seriously, the issue is not whether Matt is the second coming of Linus Torvalds, but rather whether he's being physically prevented by his best friend from hanging out with his ex-girlfriend.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
As for the first, that's fine. Perhaps you could find me a link to the competition results (I'd think a statewide competition would post the winning webpages)?
As for building computers from scratch, you could do that. Its a matter of following simple directions. As for programming them himself, I think you mean installing the operating systems himself, which you could also do given a basic introduction.
I wouldn't be surprised if he were pretty decent at web design, or at building computers, or at many other things relating to information technology, but there's a difference between confidence in someone's work/pride in his accomplishments and the overstatement of those accomplishments.
Take pride in him being good at making web pages, but don't try to inflate him beyond what he is Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
If Matt wanted to hang out with you, he would. He would honestly tell his friend what is going on. His very best friend would understand and give Matt some space. Period. That is what friends do.
I'm so glad I'm not a teenager anymore. /tangent
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
I'm not inflating him... my school is big on IT, and Matt's going into programming. When I say he programs the computers he builds, I mean he PROGRAMS them. He writes the programs himself. Including one operating system. A simple one, not what windows would be, but it's an accomplishemtn to be noted.
I don't know where to find the competition results, but I'll ask him sometime.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
His best friend does not want him around me. He will do everything in his power to prevent Matt from being with me. Including a few times that he's lied to me about things that Matt has "said", so I would be mad at matt, and not want to talk to him. He compains that we argued a lot. What he doesn't realize is that it was his lies that started the arguments.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I agree with jexx, on everything, except i"m still a teenager for 149 days.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
And I like derailments, Tom
Input has been given on that issue, for Tinros to mull as she will. I think its clear that Matt would prefer staying friends with this guy rather than what he perceives the alternative to be, and that he has issues mediating between this friend's opinion of Tinros and Tinros' desires for their friendship.
Given the structure of their relationships are unlikely to change except where Tinros is concerned, I advocate she focus on Matt, and on getting him to commit to certain things as her friend -- hanging out with her when he says he's going to, talking to her with fair regularity, and not letting his friends talk guff about her (that is, he should let them know firmly that he wants to be friends, and that if they choose to talk down about her, he should leave until they stop, if they don't after requested).
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
I don't know the "Matt issue" prior to this update thread. However, my advice is to not worry about it so much, mainly because you're about to go to college. Freshman year of college is all about meeting new people and forming new friendships. You might keep in touch with your HS friends, or you might not. Or you might try to but they sort of drift away anyway. It happens.
Sounds like Matt's best friend is kind of a jerk. If he'd rather hang out with the jerk than with you, you don't really need him. Put as much effort into maintaining the friendship with him as you like, but if he's not reciprocating it's probably not worth it.
--Enigmatic (relationships the lazy way)
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
Then Matt needs to realize that his friend is not behaving as a good friend should. There's nothing you can do about that, however, except for look like a shrill ex-girlfriend who is bitter if you dare to bring it up.
Let go of Matt for a while and hang out with your other friends. Trust me, boys are like busses, if you miss one, another one will come along in a few minutes (or weeks, as the case may be ). Matt will come back when things even out.
breyerchic, don't worry, soon you will be fully cured of teenagerism! It's just a matter of time. Literally. Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Input has been given on that issue, for Tinros to mull as she will. I think its clear that Matt would prefer staying friends with this guy rather than what he perceives the alternative to be, and that he has issues mediating between this friend's opinion of Tinros and Tinros' desires for their friendship.
Given the structure of their relationships are unlikely to change except where Tinros is concerned, I advocate she focus on Matt, and on getting him to commit to certain things as her friend -- hanging out with her when he says he's going to, talking to her with fair regularity, and not letting his friends talk guff about her (that is, he should let them know firmly that he wants to be friends, and that if they choose to talk down about her, he should leave until they stop, if they don't after requested).
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think the point I was trying to make, is that his friend is pressuring a "her or me" decision, indirectly, and there is no possible way Matt could avoid his friend, unless he gave up everything he loved, including computers.
However, I will talk to Matt(and I already have, once, about "detaching" himself for five minutes during school so I can actually see him). I might just tell him something like, you see this guy every day, and you and I have no classes together, so why don't we hang out saturday nights? Matt's mom has one scheduled night a week that her and her friends from high school go out and get dinner, play cards, all that stuff, and they've been doing it for, I dunno, 25 years? I might see if I can start something like that with him.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
very soon, then it's all fixed and the drama walks away right (I have a bit of relationship drama in my life too but it's not getting discussed on hatrack right now )
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
That is a good place to start. You might see about involving some mutual friends who don't try to break the two of you up, to add some variety and keep it from seeming too much like dating.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
I have a few friends like that, very supportive... unfortunately, they're all female, and I doubt Matt would want to hang out with 6 females, especially during PMS.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Tinros, Matt sounds like a very intelligent and talented individual. I have every confidence that he will eventually realize that he is the master of his own destiny. You are also that talented.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
fugu hangs out with six pmsing females, it's really ammusing.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Its particularly amazing as your cycles seem largely synchronized
And I think Matt would likely be able to deal with two other girls tagging along Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Our cycles are VERY synchronized. It happens a lot with women who are around each other a lot. You should see our marching band's color guard. We avoid getting on their bus every few weeks.
[ August 24, 2005, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Tinros ]
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
they do don't they? And we don't lose too many guys that way, a few but not that many.
Yeah three PMSing girls isn't too bad, it's when it gets around ten that the room starts to shake and it rains outside.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: Our cycles are VERY synchronized. It happens a lot with women who are around each other a lot. You should see our marching band's color gaurd.
Their color changes?
Oh my!
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
sorry, tante. I'm kinda tired after practice, and my brain isn't functioning properly, especially due to the fact that I'm currently doing French homework. Spelling has been corrected.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Was reading excerpts from this thread to Steve. He pointed out that Elton John has biological children.
AJ
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I never have pms.
*saint*
(If Tony was reading this, he'd be snorting whatever he was drinking all over the screen right now.)
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Umm Tinros, hate to say this, but I think Matt has already decided on the "it's her or me" thing from his friend...
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I agree with Banna. Er, with Steve. And with Tom. Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
fugu it's a little late but this page makes me want to claw out my eyes.
Steve (a Native Daytonian): "ohhhhhhhhhh, ahhhh, eeeeeeeeeee, eeeeeeeeeewwwww, *blech*, *pphhhbtttt*" "If it wasn't coded in wordpad they are pretending. Badly. Business is a good backup plan when their coding career tanks."
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:During my free time I like to go out to places, such as the movies, the malls, and cruising with my cousins. Other things I like to do are going on the internet, watching TV, listening to music, chilling with my friends, talking to my beautiful girlfriend, who I like very much, and I like being with her.
We look for things.
We look for things that make us go.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Banna, I clicked on that link. Oh! How could you! What have I ever done to hurt you?
I need to go and get myself a white cane and a dog, now that you've permanently blinded me.
And a blind date.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I once had a blind date.
Her name was ..:::..:..:::.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:There are 490 female students at Timken High School, and 65 are pregnant, according to a recent report in the Canton Repository.
The article reported that some would say that movies, TV, videogames, lazy parents and lax discipline may all be to blame.
Or, it could be the sex.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Blame me, Tante, I linked it first Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
That website gave me seizures. I intend to sue.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Here's the orginal "repository" article. One wonders about a town with a "three pronged approach" and a "repository" for a newspaper. http://cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=238435
AJ
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
Ow. I intend to call you several uncomplimentary and profane names. As soon as I get my brain cells lined back up.
Ow.
Really.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Blame the guy who made it. Who apparently won second place in a web design context supposedly covering a good-sized region of Ohio (though not with that page, I hope beyond reason).
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Note to self:
Avoid Canton, Ohio
(Stick to New Jersey, where the women are virtuous, and the two local newspapers, "The Home-News" and "The News Tribune" merged to form "The Home-News Tribune")
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
My eyes! My eyes!
I've been blinded. I'm suing with Icarus. Let's all get a class action against that alien monster from a far away planet...er, person.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Ouch...
Am I the only one who found this: "65 Girls At Area School Pregnant School To Unveil Three-Prong Program"
a horrible thign to say?
It looked like something I would find in the "adjecent title" thread rather than something children should read in a paper...
Methinks they alread have a problem with out of control "prongs" in that area.... Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I have a few friends like that, very supportive... unfortunately, they're all female, and I doubt Matt would want to hang out with 6 females, especially during PMS.
My six best friends are all female (and by the way, Colleen, Colleen, Kara, Kelsey, Nicole and Megan, if you ever read this, I disavow all knowledge of of what I'm goin to say now!).
I'd recommend to Matt that he NOT hang out with your friends. Six women, all at once, is a whole lot of estrogen unless you have other guys around to offset it. I'm happiest when THEY are dating people, then I'm not alone in a sea of ovaries. When I'm dating someone, there's six girls to tell embaressing stories about me, which is especially torturous since one of them is my ex-girlfriend.
But back to the "matt issue." I wonder what is at the root of his attachment to his best friend. Everyone here probably has a best friend that spend time with, but any healthy friendship includes the ability for both parties to know how to spend time away from your best friend. Best friends who aren't in a romantic relationship are two people who share a common bond, and they know how to be separate people. Matt doesn't sound like he's hit that emotional maturity level, or he's just BSing you. Since you claim he isn't BSing you, I'm left with the belief that he isn't emotionally mature enough to balance both friendships.
I'd also question his judgement, if he feels so strongly for you, and his friend is making obviously outlandish "her or me" demands. Matt should shut that kind of behavior down immediately, and he should realize that any true best friend wouldn't behave like that. If I were you, I'd get together with Matt's best friend's girlfriend and have a heart to heart on how she deals with his behavior, might give you some insight, for I wonder how she deals with his always spending so much time with Matt.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: Matt isn't the problem. He's trying to break away from his best friend some so he can be with me a little, but his friend won't let him. Hence the problem. And Matt has taken a vow of honesty, so he can't lie to his friend and tell him he's doing yardwork or whatever to get out of stuff.
It's not Matt that's the problem.
Uh, yeah, it is. Matt can make his own decisions, including the decision to take no action. If Matt is hanging out with this other guy to the point of excluding you, that's his choice, and short of bondage or gunpoint, Matt's friend has no control over him unless Matt allows it.
The other part of the problem is you and how you're taking this. You can decide how you WANT to react and take it from there. You can't control Matt or his friend, or his friend's girlfriend, but you can control what you read, who you interact with, and how you deal with this.
There's no "should" or "have to" about this, but there are choices.
[/toughlove]
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
I talked to Matt, and he talked to his parents... and they've given him permission to lie to his best friend, saying that he can't do things with him because of "chores", so he can have me over, or vice versa. He's also agreed that on the days I have band practice(and I have a little free time after school), if he doesn't work, he'll break away and talk to me.
As for that article...
"School officials are not sure what has contributed to so many pregnancies,..." What contributes to pregnancy other than sex? I didn't think there was another way, unless a lot of girls are experimenting with the newest drug, "invitro"...
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Wow, Matt's relationship with his friend sounds horribly unhealthy. If his parents think he needs to lie to this guy to stay friends, something is wrong.
quote: unless a lot of girls are experimenting with the newest drug, "invitro"...
Tinros
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
So kissing is wrong, but lying to your best friend is okay?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Not to be crude, but. . . oh heck, who am I trying to kid?
I cetainly hope you don't end up marrying this guy after college if you want kids, Tinros, 'cause apparently he doesn't have any balls. He's getting permission from his parents to lie to his friend so he can hang out with you? 'Tain't worth your time.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Or, you know. You might want to consider which vertex of this triangle he's lying to.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm not sure why, if I were determined to lie to my best friend, I would seek my parents' permission to do so.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
Since so many are sharing the negative perspective, I thought I'd try out some positive thoughts.
Has Matt been best friends with this guy for a really long time now? (forgive me if I missed the answer somewhere in this thread) It sounds to me like his best friend is the really jealous type and is afraid that you are threatening their relationship and that the only way to protect their relationship is by having you completely out of the picture. If Matt has invested a lot in his friendship with this guy (like say 15 years of his life), he's going to have a hard time mentally and emotionally detaching himself from his friend, or worrying about hurting his friend. Don't do anything that would give the impression that you are making a similar "me or him" demand. Be supportive of Matt's situation without pressuring him too much to change. Tell him how much you appreciate the time that you are able to spend together. Ask him if he has enjoyed your time together, and what he likes about the time you spend together. Get him thinking about your friendship without making it seem like your making demands or forcing certain expectations upon him. It's important that he feels your supportive of him, not part of the problem. He'll eventually be able to separate himself from his friend and his friend will gradually accept that. It might take a while, but Matt will eventually find a healthy balance.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
oh, and lying about it will just postpone the problem, and make the resolution more difficult.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: sounds to me like his best friend is the really jealous type and is afraid that you are threatening their relationship and that the only way to protect their relationship is by having you completely out of the picture
I don't think we have enough information about the friend to come to this conclusion. But even if it's true, Matt's decisions are his own. He is responsible for his relationship with Tinros. Caving to his friend is not a good solution. And that he asks his parents about this and they encourage him to do so wierds me out.
//oh, this was written before I saw Camus' additional post. I think the lying is the real problem- so perhaps we all agree.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
There again, who asks for advice on what is plainly a rather personal problem, on an Internet message board?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Do you not read half the threads here, KoM? Obviously a whole lot of people. Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
Why can't Matt just stop hanging out with his friend to hang out with Tinros? I don't mean altogether, but seriously, you CAN have more than one friend at the same time and there's no reason why this guy should be monopolizing his time unless Matt wants him to.
Like others have said, it's not like this other guy is holding him at gunpoint, it just sounds like Matt either has no guts or he's using it as an excuse.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Asking for personal advice in an anonymous way could be a good way to get feedback on a subject that you feel uncomfortable discussing with those close to you.
Not that I would know... *waves to Rico*
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Matt and his best friend have been best friends since the guy moved here about 5 years ago, when we were in 7th grade. I met Matt in 6th grade, when we knew him as YodaBoy(he's a HUGE SW fan), but I never got to know him until our freshman year, when we started dating the first time.
The problem with Matt "splitting" his tiem between us is that a lot of the time, when he's not working, doing homework, or doing chores and stuff for his parents, he is working on projects for IT with his best friend. Some of them are just stupid ideas they give up on in about an hour, but when Matt gets an idea he's excited about, he goes all out for months at a time... and since his ideas are computer related, and I know virtually NOTHING about computers, he goes to his best friend.
Things are being worked out. Matt and I made a deal- he's going to teach me web design and programming languages, and I'm teaching him to play piano. We get the most important thing in each other's lives melded into our own, so we can understand each other better.
Hey, at least I didn't ask him to play flute with me.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
You're being played.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Wait, wait.
Matt is the Star Wars fan, or his best friend is?
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
What happened to Matt's vow of honesty?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Matt, I think, is full of crap. He has this huge moral standing on kissing, and on being a good boy and following all the rules. But he has to ask permission to lie to his best friend so he can hang out with this girlfriend (whom apparently he has little to nothing in common with).
I feel like I'm watching a really goofy episode of Boy Meets World or The OC. Every time you try and defend him, or explain how the situation is evolving it sounds more and more childish, immature, and incredibly unhealthy.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
let me clarify: MATT is the SW fan.
also let me clarify: Matt will only lie as a last resort, if his friend does the "call every 15 minutes until you give in and do something with me" approach. (Lyrhawn, if you didn't know, I'm not his girlfriend anymore, just a good friend.)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Matt will only lie as a last resort, if his friend does the "call every 15 minutes until you give in and do something with me" approach.
Let me just point out that this is not in fact a last resort.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:
quote:Matt will only lie as a last resort, if his friend does the "call every 15 minutes until you give in and do something with me" approach.
Let me just point out that this is not in fact a last resort.
And let me point out that tolerating and responding to this kind of behavior from *anyone* is as good a sign as any that the boy does not understand how to maintain an appropriate relationship.
Tinros, for this and many other good reasons being put forth here (let me join those who are aghast at the idea that kissing is less excusable than lying to get someone to leave you alone) my advice to you is to run, don't walk, away from Matt.
Alternatively, do this: you say he is your best friend... let's put this to the simple, non-destructive test of letting your relationship with him be what he wants it to be. Don't initiate any contact or meeting with him. See how long it takes for him to contact you, and then how long it takes for him to suggest getting together. Just roll with whatever he wants for a couple of weeks. This should give you a good idea of how much he really wants to spend time with you.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
So lying is preferable to saying "Look you, today I'm with Tinros; back off!"? Or even, "Well, Tinros is here, but you can come over and hang out if you like." I mean, really, how complicated can this be? Or if he absolutely insists on lying, how about "Well, Tinros is here and I think I've got a chance at getting laid, so cut me some slack, will ya?" There's a boast that any boy should respect. And incidentally, lying does not get any more acceptable because you have permission from your parents. What, your god is like a high school principal? "Dear God, Matt was sick yesterday and could not do his morality. Please excuse him from harp-playing today."
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
(I can't believe I'm actually going to say this. This has got to be a first. No, no, really, it IS a first. And probably an only. Except for the bit about getting laid. But the rest of it - yeah, absolutely.)
Yeah, what KoM said.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
quote:"Dear God, Matt was sick yesterday and could not do his morality. Please excuse him from harp-playing today."
LOL, KoM. Really, what you wrote made me laugh out loud.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Me too. Holy crap that was funny. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:(I can't believe I'm actually going to say this. This has got to be a first. No, no, really, it IS a first. And probably an only. Except for the bit about getting laid. But the rest of it - yeah, absolutely.)
Yeah, what KoM said.
*slaps a blue ribbon on KoM's post*
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Huh, and to think I was going to stop looking in this thread! What a loss that would have been!
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I think Matt, who is purportedly in tune with modern technology, should be able to figure out how to turn off the telphone ringer, or change it to one ring only. Caller-ID is also cheap.
It is a myth, and one that I was held hostage by for many years, that one has to answer one's phone (whether cell or home phone) when it rings. Learning that is a liberating step.
AJ
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Same with answering the door. Same to giving in to other people's demands or requests.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I feel so freeeeeeeeeeee now that I am not a slave to my phone. Ring little phone... Ring ring ring. I know where the silence! button is.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Learning to say "no" to people asking you to do something you don't want to is an important step in life that I'm afraid some people (like my mother-in-law) never quite take.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Matt has caller ID. However, he has to keep the phone "ring-able" at all times, because his dad is a firefighter, and they never know what might happen while his dad is at work.
He calls me almost every night now.
And he told his friend today to back off.
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
I think the lesson here is that one should avoid all CS types. I mean they just don't have the social skills required to interact with people.
Let's just ship them all off to an island where they can make each other miserable.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I think Matt just takes two days to figure out what the appropriate response should be in any situation. Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I think Matt just takes two days to figure out what the appropriate response should be in any situation.
Actually, I'd agree with that completely. He certainly takes his time making up his mind.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
@ sarahdipity
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Also phones these days can still be set for a maximum number of rings. 2-3 should be sufficient to alert the family to check the ID to see if Dad is in distress... In fact, if you get the right kind of phone, you could set a unique ring for "Dad's work" and turn everyone else off.
AJ
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
My cell phone plays the Darth Vader Imperial March whenever my work is calling.
It also plays when my mother is calling. Though she isn't a fan of that at all.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
well, yeah, he has an answering machine, and his phone is set to 4 rings. But if he's on the phone, it starts beeping at him when someone is calling, and with his phone, there's no way to get it to stop unless you switch over and back, hanging up on the person, or wait for them to hang up.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
When I had my own cell phone, I used the "composer" feature to set my own ringtones. It played "Let me Call you Sweetheart" when Jeff called, "Old Folks at Home" when one of my parents called, and "I am a Child of God" when someone from my YSA group called. For everyone else, it played "Banks of the Ohio"-- one of my favorite murder ballads. Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: And he told his friend today to back off.
Go Matt!! Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
There's been much speculation about Matt's sexual orientation. Tinros has been very adamant concerning this issue and I'm willing to accept her assertion, but perhaps we've not questioned the proper party in this Peyton Place triangle.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Good point, Punwit.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Oh, I'd already thought of that . . . Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
tinros is matt's friend gay?
Posted by jh (Member # 7727) on :
I don't get why a guy who seems as religious as Matt is would have such a problem with lying that he has to take a vow to prevent himself from doing so. He could take a vow that would actually help someone; like vowing to volunteer at a homeless shelter or donate money to AIDS.
Second, I don't get why he had to ask his parents to break that vow. What a wimp.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:donate money to AIDS.
OK, it's a nitpick, I know it's a nitpick, but... Might I suggest that you actually meant "donate money to AIDS research?"
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I thought she said earlier that Matt's friend has a girlfriend.
I'd love to know how THAT is still a functional relationship. Is this town littered with girls who have no standards when it comes to how they are treated by men?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Um, yeah. Pretty much.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Matt's friend has a girlfriend that he is VERY VERY "active" with. I'm surprised he's still a virgin. It got so bad we had to ask them to save it for when they were alone.
Matt's friend treats her just fine. He and his girlfriend are the typical, depressed, somewhat-gothic teenagers. Funny, they go to Matt's church. And they have wonderful families, large houses, anything they want. But they complain that no one cares about them. Hmm, I wonder why.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
[blunt]
Matt's hiding behind his best friend, or nutless, or a little of both.
[/blunt]
If you don't believe me, try this little exercise:
Ask yourself, "If I was Matt, and I didn't want to see Tinros anymore but didn't want to hurt her feelings, how might I go about doing that?"
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: He and his girlfriend are the typical, depressed, somewhat-gothic teenagers. Funny, they go to Matt's church. And they have wonderful families, large houses, anything they want. But they complain that no one cares about them. Hmm, I wonder why.
Um, a little judgmental, are we? If Matt's friend can pick up on how you feel about him at all, I'm not surprised he doesn't like you and is trying to keep you away from Matt.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Not really judgemental. I'm repeating what they say about themselves.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Gossipy, then? But seriously, when did this thread turn into a bash-Tinros-over-the-head-with-her-immaturity free-for-all?
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: And they have wonderful families, large houses, anything they want.
This may be all that you've observed but if they feel like something is lacking in their lives, there's a decent chance that there is. Money doesn't equate to happiness and other people's families are never as wonderful as they seem. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
Wait a minute here. Do I actually agree with KoM on something? I couldn't be. There's gotta be some other reason why I would have a similar thought as KoM. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Camus, I know what you mean. I'm not sure what's happening here, either. Is it possible that KoM is actually becoming *gasp* reasonable? It's either that, or the fabric of the universe is unravelling at an alarming pace.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Gossipy, then? But seriously, when did this thread turn into a bash-Tinros-over-the-head-with-her-immaturity free-for-all?
In our defense, Tinros started beating us over the head with her immaturity first.
Gotta love the maturity level of that statement too. Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
The good news is that this thread has been helpful in weening me of my Days of Our Lives addiction.
The bad news is I'm not sure what I'll do when this thread dies Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
No, KoM is still self-righteous and arrogant, it's just that he's stopped browbeating Tinros for having a religion and he's making pretty fair assessments of people from the knowledge presented here, rather than missing the point so he can grind his own ax a little further like he usually does Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
When it dies, start your own punwit. It could be a new torch that gets passed at Hatrack. "The Melodrama Thread."
Wait no! "The Official Melodrama Thread."
Posted by Avadaru (Member # 3026) on :
I just looked into this thread, and I'm confused about some of the things being discussed...since the title begins with "Update", where is the first thread concerning the Matt Issue? I couldn't find one.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I don't recall the title, but I believe it's the only other thread started by Tinros, so you could look for her name as the thread starter.
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
It's this thread. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:The bad news is I'm not sure what I'll do when this thread dies
Tune back in and get caught up on what's happening with Bo (or is it Beau?) and Hope?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I watched DOOL I think five years ago, briefly, when my cousin came to town. I can't believe that show is still dealing with Bo/Hope issues.
This is why I hate soap operas.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Actually, KOM, I have started a few others. They just never went anywhere.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Lyrhawn, I watched it during the summer of 1986, and I didn't get the impression that Bo/Hope issues were a new thing at that time. The mind boggles, eh? I wonder how many years, total, they've managed to drag out that particular plot-line.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Whatever happened to Marlena and John? And is Stephano alive or did he "die" again?
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
So now my life is a soap opera? Thanks guys.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
It's not your life, per se; it's the posting about it on the message boards bit, I think.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
what would you rather me do? I tend to trust the people who think like me(for the most part)
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
My comment wasn't intended to be cruel or derisive. I have found parts of this story to be melodramatic but I meant no disrespect. I suppose that high-school is full of melodrama and your experiences are par for the course. I thought a bit of humor was called for to ease the mood of the thread.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Many of our lives are soap operas. While I was dating my now ex girlfriend, my life was a soap opera for three years, but I didn't lay it bare to the whole world, or even a message board. It's your choice to seek advice here, and I won't demean that, as I've sought advice here myself.
However, it DOES sound a lot like a teen drama show the WB might host. And concerning Matt, I have to say I don't understand the situation, nor, I think, do many people here. The guy is so full of mixed signals, were he a traffic light gone haywire, there'd be a 20 car pile up at the intersection of Matt and Tinros.
I think you're past the point of asking for advice. You've made your decision, and are trying to defend it and seek acceptance of it.
Posted by ctm (Member # 6525) on :
quote: The guy is so full of mixed signals, were he a traffic light gone haywire, there'd be a 20 car pile up at the intersection of Matt and Tinros.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:I think you're past the point of asking for advice. You've made your decision, and are trying to defend it and seek acceptance of it.
In her defense, I think Tinros has listened to some of the advice offered here, just not everyone's. A couple examples, she broke up with Matt and Matt did eventually tell his friend to back off a bit.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I think Tinros and Matt should go ahead and get married. Then all the problems of this thread and her other thread would be solved.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Oh, I have. I don't listen to all the advice, of course. Especially the kinds of advice that deal with deviating from my religious standards, things like that.
However, I think I'm just... not going to call Matt for a while. See how long it takes him to notice that one of his "friends" isn't speaking to him... and see if he apologizes.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Especially the kinds of advice that deal with deviating from my religious standards, things like that...."
The good advice, in other words. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:The guy is so full of mixed signals, were he a traffic light gone haywire, there'd be a 20 car pile up at the intersection of Matt and Tinros.
That made me giggle like a teenage girl. Thanks, Lyrhawn.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: "Especially the kinds of advice that deal with deviating from my religious standards, things like that...."
The good advice, in other words.
*THWAP*
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:See how long it takes him to notice that one of his "friends" isn't speaking to him... and see if he apologizes.
He won't apologize - he doesn't know he's doing anything really wrong.
If he is a real friend, however, he will call you. And he very well could.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: I think Tinros and Matt should go ahead and get married. Then all the problems of this thread and her other thread would be solved.
Brilliant. Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
Tinros
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Wait a minute here. Do I actually agree with KoM on something? I couldn't be. There's gotta be some other reason why I would have a similar thought as KoM. ![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
It's either that, or the fabric of the universe is unravelling at an alarming pace.
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
*THWAP*