It seems a bit like they are trying to punish him for hurting the woman's feelings, but... when a person's health is at serious risk, isn't it the doctor's job to point out when the Emperor is naked?
At worst, it is possible that he was trying to offend her, in order to get her to act in her own best interests. At best, he lacks people skills. But even if he was trying to make her angry, I think he was probably right to do it.
What do you think?
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
The doctor is in the right.
I mean let's say you're the doctor of a patient who admits to having unprotected sex with multiple partners and asks you what he can do to help decrease the constant VD's that he's comming in for to get treated?
Well you tell him to protect himself and that cutting down on his sexual partners are viable ways in which to do this.
Heck, I want my doctor to be honest. In this case the patient should be reprimanded for being stupid. Medical Doctor's are not supposed to be Stuart Smalley.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
I think you are right
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:He said he tells obese women they most likely will outlive an obese spouse and will have a difficult time establishing a new relationship because studies show most males are completely negative to obese women.
Good intent, crappy execution. I'd be pissed off at the doctor as well. Health is definitely a topic for doctors, but their opinion of my attractiveness and future love life - not to mention using it as a weapon - is completely irrelevant. What he said WAS insulting.
I think what gets to me is the assumption that it is something she didn't know. Did he seriously think she was not aware that she wasn't considered attractive? It would be bad enough not being able to shop in the mall and having people avoid eye contact in public. The doctor is beholden to tell someone they are unhealthy, but not that they are ugly.
Posted by RoyHobbs (Member # 7594) on :
It's not the doctors job to stroke someones ego, or to even consider if what he is saying is painful to you. His job is to try and improve his patients health, what he said was honest, forthright and thorough, and said with good intentions, what else do you want from him?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I think he was just trying to shake her up, and though what he said was insulting (no question) I also think it was true.
Sometimes, speaking the hard truth to someone can help them. I've done it, and I've been done unto. It was hard on both counts (harder for me to do it, actually), but I'm glad someone cared enough to make me see what I was doing.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
To confine himself to discussions of weight and health. Telling someone they will die old and alone because they are so ugly is not honest - it's tacky, a low-blow, and none of his business.
---
Olivia, I would agree with you if it weren't for the paragraph I quoted. That was so far over the line that the line looks like a dot.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
I think the guy had good intentions but with little actual sensitivity to the difference between men and women.
He goes too far, IMO, when he essentially says that the woman will end up fat and alone. If I heard that from a doctor, I'd hear "you are unlovable the way you are". I think that's an unnecessarily harsh message.
But I also think that women tend to have unreasonable expectations about being told they are fat. If your doctor can't tell you you're risking your health by being overweight, you might as well just go to your best friend for your health concerns. She won't be able to help you, but she'll at least make you feel good about your situation.
Personally, I'd side for truth with a hope that I got a doctor who was kind about his truthfulness.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I'm with kat. I think the doctor should make sure that his patients understand the medical complications they will face because of their obesity. Telling them they'll die unloved and alone is totally unprofessional, insulting, and probably not apt to help them to live healthier lives.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*thinks*
I like that he suggested a program. I think rather than telling them they are ugly, it would be better to suggest solutions.
My mother was overweight, and it did ultimately contribute to her early death. I remember her being on and off a diet for most of my life. She knew what she looked like, and she knew she needed to lose weight, and she didn't quite know how or really have hope that she could. If some doctor told her during a visit that she was unattractive, I'd have been furious. She didn't need more dissaproval from someone who was supposed to take care of her; she needed solutions.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
I think the doctor is in the right, but I was going to post the same quote Kat did. Depending on how that part of his "obesity lecture for women" is phrased it could be a bit over the line.
If a doctor tells me I should excercise more for health reasons, good. He's probably right. If he tells me I should excercise because girls don't like a skinny boy with no muscle, that's not really any of his business. Mind you, I still don't think it's something he should get reprimanded for, but I'd probably tell him off and maybe consider looking for a different doctor.
--Enigmatic
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
quote:I think what gets to me is the assumption that it is something she didn't know. Did he seriously think she was not aware that she wasn't considered attractive?
There are women who have babies that claim they had no idea they were pregnant for 9 months. And that have been not a few instances of men/women with injuries they didn't know they had until they went to the doctor (guy with nail from nailgun lodged in his skull and older lady that was stabbed and had a knife sticking out of her back but went shopping, etc.)
If she wants ego stroking go to a professional ego stroker.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
"Telling someone they will die old and alone because they are so ugly is not honest - it's tacky, a low-blow, and none of his business."
Tacky, yes. A low blow, yes. Dishonest? I don't think so. He said her weight made it less likely that she'd find another partner, which is entirely, statistically true. I mean, it's hard enough to find a suitable partner when you're slim and cute.
That's not dishonest. If I could see the future and knew that someone would be sick and alone if they didn't take steps to change their life NOW, I would say anything I could think of to get hem to change. This doctor has had enough experience and seen enough studies to know prettymuch what was ahead for this lady. He wanted her to make a decision to change, find support and take control of her life in an attempt to avoid what he could reasonably see lay ahead of her.
Whne tact fails, try bluntness before abandoning someone to their fate.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It doesn't work, though - if you are a mentor to someone, do you really tell them how horrible they are and assume that will make them change? It doesn't work with people - people don't change in order to gain approval from someone who thinks they are worthless. They tell the person who said it to go to hell.
And that's still assuming that her unattractiveness was a mystery to her. I promise - people who are overweight are very, very aware of the public's opinion of it.
He handled it very ineffectively.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
quote:That's not dishonest. If I could see the future and knew that someone would be sick and alone if they didn't take steps to change their life NOW, I would say anything I could think of to get hem to change.
If he was a close friend, this might apply. The Dr./patient thing is strictly health related and I know I'd personally smack a Dr. that broached the subject of my future love life. Kat's right, it's completely irrelevant.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Olivet, I wonder if an obese man would find that tactic motivating where it would just depress the hell out of an obese woman. I think in most cases, it would.
That said, while I think his delivery sucks, I don't think he's right to be reprimanded. Save the reprimands for the truly incompetent doctors.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
If he'd said, "You're ugly and you'll die alone" That would be very badly handled.
If he said, "Statistically, overweight women live longer than over weight men, and are less likely to find new partners" THAT is the painful truth.
I'd have a better basis for an opinion if I knew exactly what he said.
My mom was overweight before she died, because of the drugs she had to take, and various complications. She had always, her whole life been beautiful, and I know it hurt her to see herself that way. Doctors did try to help her lose weight, but it just wasn't going to happen. She couldn't exercise much because her tendons kept tearing, and she didnt' eat much anyway.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Losing a great deal of weight is a major project. Dedicating that much time, energy, and money (most effective programs will take money) solely for the benefit of guys yet unknown sounds kind of soul-sucking. There are better reasons. Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Right, and I think this doctor was just trying to list all the reasons this patient might have to lose weight.
I'm sure the real talk was quite a litany. I don't think he was necessarily talking about her future love life, just listing the things that overweight people face.
But, sometimes, your love life IS your doctor's business. Luckily, mine never has been.
Though, I must say I had a gynocologist once who was much more deserving of a reprimand than this bedside-manner-challenged fellow.
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
Also, I don't know the exact circumstances, but she may have been making small talk with the doctor as well and this subject came up.
Doc: How's it going?
Lady: Ugh! Not good. I can't seem to find any men to date and I don't know why. I'm afraid I'm gonna die alone. You think it's me Doc?
PC Doc: Um...no it's not you, it's them.
Honest Doc: Statistically, overweight women live longer than over weight men, and are less likely to find new partners.
Also, it's plausible (I've seen it happen and have family members that are doctors) that like many people, they misuse their doctors as phsychiatrists as well and end up dumping all of their emotional problems on them.
She could have been doing that and this doctor responded in a non-psychiatric but honest way.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It doesn't sound like it - the article said the line about outliving the spouse and being unable to find another was part of his standard speech.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
I caught part of this on the "Today Show" and one thing really disturbed me about the coverage. We're only getting this doctor's side of the issue - the woman in question isn't out there giving her "spin." And yet he was treated as though his account was the *factual* account.
That sounds like crap to me. Even without trying to deceive, we color our memories of things we've said and done. We know what we meant to communicate - even if it's not what we said.
It's not surprising the Union-Leader gave him sympathetic coverage, either. It's about as far to the right in political orientation as the NY Times is to the left.
Even with what I've said, my main reaction to the story, knowing the problems with incompetent/unethical doctors who continue to practice regardless of how many lawsuits or complaints are associated with them is this:
The state Board of Medicine's priorities are seriously out of sync with matters of real importance.
Posted by Kettricken (Member # 8436) on :
I think the doctor was doing his job when he said
"Bennett said he tells them their obesity will lead to high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, gastroesophageal reflux and stroke."
This is medical information the patient needs to hear.
I think he was wrong when he commented on her difficulties finding a new partner. Not only is it not a medical opinion, it is likely to do more harm than good. I think most people struggling with obesity know they are considered unattractive and would like to be slimmer. They may have become obese as a result of comfort eating following low self-esteem, in which case the “advice” is likely to do harm.
It also suggests women will only find a man by being attractive (but the converse is not true) and that a women’s life (but presumably not a man’s) is only complete if she has a husband. These may be opinions that many people hold, but they are not medical opinions.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I agree with kat and jeniwren (et al)
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
quote:The state Board of Medicine's priorities are seriously out of sync with matters of real importance.
To note, the Board of Medicine in any state has other work to do besides slapping down pesky smart mouth doctors. In my estimation, there's probably some part of the story that is not being represented faithfully in the press.
These kinds of stories get alot of attention because they pose interesting questions, and the less sensational parts of the picture are often left out.
I am not defending the doctor's behavior here in the least. If a doctor told me some of the things that have been quoted in this thread--I would be extremely hurt. Further, I don't think I'd be in a frame of mind to make important and much needed lifestyle changes. As katharina pointed out, these things take alot of mental energy and are much easier when you have support.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*kicks own state*
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
*bump*
Because there's more news on this...
Not to say "I told you so," but remember when I said:
quote:I caught part of this on the "Today Show" and one thing really disturbed me about the coverage. We're only getting this doctor's side of the issue - the woman in question isn't out there giving her "spin." And yet he was treated as though his account was the *factual* account.
Turns out the good doctor was a little selective in what he chose to tell the press. The comments he made were racial in addition to everything else:
quote:CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -- The state is investigating a doctor accused of telling a patient she was so obese she might only be attractive to black men and advising another to shoot herself following brain surgery.
"Let's face it, if your husband were to die tomorrow, who would want you?" the state Board of Medicine says Dr. Terry Bennett told the overweight patient in June 2004.
"Well, men might want you, but not the types you want to want you. Might even be a black guy," it quoted him as saying, based on the woman's complaint.
He doesn't deny it - just wasn't revealing it to the media:
quote: In a telephone interview Tuesday from Rochester, Bennett denied any wrongdoing and defended his message to her, saying he has read polls that say black men prefer overweight women.
Given the current total focus on the aftermath of Katrina, I doubt that this development will get the attention or publicity of the initial round - where the "good doctor" was totally in control of the message.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Regarding the brain surgery patient whom he allegedly advised to commit suicide:
quote:"That patient is currently in a nursing home completely demented, tied to a chair drooling on herself and doesn't recognize anybody," said Bennett, 67. "She was in pretty nearly that condition at the time she filed that complaint."
Wow. He's just the pinnacle of compassion, isn't he?
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
She's completely demented, tied to a chair, drooling, and doesn't recognize anybody... and yet she's able to file a complaint?
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I just think he has been watching too many episodes of House.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Heh heh. My first thought when I heard this story was the episode a few weeks ago with the woman who had the huge ovarian tumor.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
After CSI came out, I heard a little bit about the "CSI Effect." I wonder if we are going to start seeing a "House Effect."
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
"House" has little to do with the many crusty doctors that already exist. Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
I think this guy is just a class-A jerk who feels it's his right as a doctor to say whatever mean and/or bigoted thing comes out of his mouth. Further, it seems clear he feels no one has the right to call him on this.
That's the world older doctors lived in - and while many were decent communicators, others were as abusive as the system let them be.
I don't have sympathy for doctors who say they should be "left alone" and unaccountable. That's the same way everyone feels. But ALL of us are accountable and should be - that applies to police, lawyers, politicians (and they all had a time when they had greater leeway in their behavior).
Time for this doctor to retire or realize the world has changed without asking his permission.
Edit to add: And then he should adjust his behavior accordingly.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
British doctors are notorious for being totally rude and snippy, or so I'm told.
You Americans are lucky!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: "House" has little to do with the many crusty doctors that already exist.
No, it's not true! *plugs ears* Television is to blame for all our problems!
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Luckily, mine never has been.