I'm not good enough to do what I want to do most in my life.
The person I thought cared about me the most, doesn't.
Being happy with my job isn't as important as being financially stable.
My self esteem isn't too good right now. And believe it or not, it's my parents who have made me believe three of the four abovementioned things.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(((hugs)))
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Parents, you'll find out, don't always know everything. Follow your own path, and don't ever let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do with your life.
Posted by NinjaBirdman (Member # 7114) on :
(((Tinros)))
You get my first Hatrack hug ever. Hang in there.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
(((Tinros)))
Trust me. Things get better.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
So what happened?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Grrr. Now I'm wondering which three.
Sorry you're feeling down, Tinros. Posted by His Savageness (Member # 7428) on :
Hugs and well wishes.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Tinros, it can get better, it can get far far better. For the record, your parents are wrong and I feel like kicking them upside the head.
You are unique. You have unique gifts and you have a unique approach to life. You have an ability to touch people's lives in a way that not everyone else has. You are of infinite worth. Your happiness is paramount, and you can have both financial stability and job satisfaction. You CAN have it all. You just have to be willing to work for it.
It will get better. It will.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It's all too common for parents to underestimte their children, Tinros. Take what they said with a grain of salt.
So what is it that you most want to do in life?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Up until the comment that your parents said three of those, it seemed to me that you might be suffering from depression (and perhaps a fairly heavy bout of it). I know the middle two in particularly can be intertwined with depression. The fact that your parents said three of those though points to other things though.
EDIT: Listen to quidscribis. Things can always get better.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
pfresh, I was diagnosed with clinical depression about 4 years ago. It's genetic.
As for what happened... I found out that my band director(who's like another dad to me) wants to nominate me for a rare, $6,000 scholarship through Bands of America. It's for those who will major in music education. Now, I think I'm pretty darn good at music. I play piano, flute, and mallet percussion. I was in our district Honor Band for 3 years, got five ONE ratings at Solo and Ensemble contest, and did Tri-State Honor Band, with the best from Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky. My parents are convinced, however, that since I happen to be very good at math, I WILL be an engineer of some sort.
I don't think I could be happy being an engineer. Music is my passion. But my mother tells me I don't practice enough, and that being a music teacher, I could never support myself financially. But it's my passion to do music. It has been for a long time. Not many people out of my school choose to major in music- even though we've had some INCREDIBLE musicians. One of my close friends, Drew, also wanted to be a band director. But, his parents said no- so he's going to Purdue in fall of '06 to do- you guessed it- engineering.
So now I have a choice to make- try for a scholarship in the thing I'm most passionate about, and risk not getting it, and having to pay more for college AND have to put up with my family remarking on my "bad life choices", or succumb to their wishes and spend every day doing something I don't enjoy. My mom keeps telling me, "you'll find out later that it makes you happy." But when I'm playing my flute, it comes from my SOUL. Math just doesn't do it for me. (on a side note, my mother also reacted this way when I told her I was considering majoring in Bible so I could become a pastor of my own church, even though my technical "denomination" doesn't allow females as pastors, I think having my own church would be worth it.)
As for the thing about "I can be replaced", that arose from a conversation with my dad. I'm section leader AND lead player for the Pit Percussion. I was invited to attend an "Honors Day" for potential Honors students at The Ohio State University, where i want to go to school(my ACT was high enough that if I get accepted into the school, I'm automatically in the honors program). That day is the day of an important football game- and a marching band halftime show. I've never missed a performance in my life, not even the day I got run over by a large, wooden cart on wheels with amps, keyboards, all that stuff on it. So, I didn't want to go to the OSU day. My dad made a comment along the lines of: "You're not THAT important. You're not so crucial that they can't find someone else to play your part." and later, he said "The world can live without you just fine." Now, I'm most likely not taking it the way he meant it, in fact, I know I'm not. But it really, really hurts to have your dad tell you that the world can live without you.
"The person I thought cared about me the most, doesn't." This is regarding the issue with Matt. He kept lying after the third time he promised to be honest. And for some reason, I'm still friends with the guy, and we're going to the Homecoming formal together. The only problem with that- he forgot his promise that we wouldn't go with his best friend(see other thread for details on why I don't like his best friend). So I'll probably be spending the night with two people who hate me and one who can't seem to be honest or remember the things that are important to me. Matt doesn't even remember my birthday, and I've known the guy for 6 years.
Anyway, that's the story of my life at the moment. Now off to bed for me, I have school in the morning.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Forgive me for that HUGE post.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I can be replaced.
Me too. And you know what, sometimes it is a relief that the well-being of the world is not solely my responsibility. In my job, I have learned that there will always be people who have been there longer than I, and there will be people who stay after I leave. As mother and wife, replacing me would be more difficult, but in my job -- no prob.
I'm not good enough to do what I want to do most in my life.
Not everyone is. If you truly believe that this assessment is realistic, then adjust your life goals to be within your reach. Or do what you can to get good enough to do what you want to.
The person I thought cared about me the most, doesn't.
That's rough. But better to hold out for true and mutual love than to waste yourself on anything less.
Being happy with my job isn't as important as being financially stable.
Your job can be, but needn't be, your entire life. I know lawyers who work incredibly long hours, weekends, constantly on the job, and their job IS their whole life. Terrific if you love that, but it needn't be. I know people who work their "bread and butter" job to pay the rent, support their family, but have chosen a job that allows them plenty of free time to pursue their true passion. A mechanic I know makes a good living, is happy, but not delighted with his work. But he has plenty of time after work and weekends to do what he loves. There are plenty of engineers who enjoy the arts after work. You can do both.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: pfresh, I was diagnosed with clinical depression about 4 years ago. It's genetic.
With that being the case, are you doing anything about it? Seeing someone or taking medication or what? I've been diagnosed with depression, and I know it can be bad. The people I've seen have recommended medication for me.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*hugs* My parents (who, incidentally, went to Purdue)are the reason why I'm an engineer now. That having said, I do enjoy it. But I understand your conflict though I've had college level music theory through counterpoint, I probably wouldn't have been a piano major anyway. But I might have gone the PhD route in Chemistry.
Honestly, I'd say let your Band director nominate you. If you *get* the scholarship, then your parents have a much weaker argument about your choice of major.
However, Engineering *is* one of the more lucrative professions starting out with only a four year degree. Let's put it this way. I'm more likely to be able to afford my Baby Grand as an engineer. I also love animals. However I chose to work at something that pays me well, so I can spend money on showing dogs, rather than being a veterinarian and working on other people's animals and never having time to enjoy my own.
So, in all seriousness, write out cost-benefit analysis, both financial, and emotional for each area. Give them both fair shots. And if you still cant see yourself, doing anything but music than go for it. But you have to remember that that passion will have to hold up during hard times. There's a reason for the "starving artist" and "street musician" stereotypes.
I also know a industrial engineering prof, who has his own band in his spare time...
AJ
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I know how you feel Tinros. My parents wanted me to go into Bio Research, because I'm good at Biology. But I love History, so I'm studying to be a History teacher. I'd rather live less comfortably, but be happy (well, relatively), than be rich but completely unhappy.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: I can be replaced.
I'm not good enough to do what I want to do most in my life.
The person I thought cared about me the most, doesn't.
Being happy with my job isn't as important as being financially stable.
The thing is, all these things are almost certainly true. And, quite frankly, it's better that you learn this now -- when you can do something to fix each problem -- than figure it out twenty or thirty years down the line.
--------
Don't listen to AJ, by the way. People who don't think they could be happy being engineers are never happy as engineers, even if they're being paid pretty well. Engineering is pretty much a lifestyle choice -- and while you might be suited to the lifestyle, if your gut is telling you that you aren't, it would be a mistake to tell yourself, "Hey, but the money would make me happy."
The happiest engineers are the ones who'd take apart a rare Russian calculator for free, just to see if they could put it back together again. If that's not you, it's not you -- no matter how much someone might pay you for that calculator.
This might sound like a direct contradiction of your last statement, the one about financial stability. But it isn't.
If you're happy with your job and naturally suited to it, you will be better at it than your competition. The reverse is also true. While a bad engineer might still get paid good money -- probably even better money than a good musician, to be honest -- there are opportunity costs hidden in the career choice that make it less compelling. If it were all about money, we'd all be finance majors.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
In regards to the career/degree thing, I'd listen to what these others say and not so much your parents. I'm skilled in all areas of school, but particularly in mathematics and sciences (which seems to be a trend within my family). Most people assumed I would want to be an engineer of some kind or at the very least a computer science major. My parents and my older brother both encouraged this as well. I knew though from experience in the field of science (I was a lab assistant at Baylor College of Medicine) and with CS (I did a lot of programming in my free time in middle school and high school) that I didn't want to have anything to do with either. While I was good at these things, I found them boring and not intellectually stimulating. When I started college last fall, I was an Arts & Technology major (which is a sort of blend of artistic stuff with CS, so a step towards full on liberal arts). Within two months, I made the full switch to being a Historical Studies major. I decided that while I won't make as much as history teacher or professor (whichever I decide to do), at least I will be intellectually stimulated and I should enjoy it. All the money that would come with being a engineering major or a CS major or (even worse) a business major is worthless in my opinion because I wouldn't be happy with what I was doing.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: The happiest engineers are the ones who'd take apart a rare Russian calculator for free, just to see if they could put it back together again. If that's not you, it's not you -- no matter how much someone might pay you for that calculator.
Sorry to double post, but I thought I should address this as well. I'm one of the people who would enjoy taking apart a Russian calculator just to see if I could put it back together. I have similar interests in other aspects of engineering (particularly electrical engineering). Would I like being an engineer or even an engineering major though? Not likely. A professional engineer does stuff that may be dictated to them by their company, and so you may not get to do necessarily what you want. To me, that would limit my interest in the field greatly, seeing as how I only like tinkering with the stuff I'm interested in. I see your example Tom as more of a hobby type thing. Now some people who did that stuff most likely are engineers now, but it's not true for everyone. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I had a huge feeling od deja vue reading that...I went through almost the same thing, but without teh math as a backup. I even played flute, and had most of teh honors you mentioned and auditioned for the DSO when I was 17 (I was too young, and lied about it just to audition, just to see if I really was any good. ).
Keep in mind that it is possible to experiment in college with classes and mojors, even if that means you take 5 years to graduate. You won't regret it, just follow your heart, but temper your heart with your mind. It isn't usually an all or nothing situation, unless you make the same mistake I did and force it to be one.
Good luck, whatever you decide.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
Keep in mind, naturally, that even if you don't receive the scholarship and go to the school of your parents' choice, even if you put "Engineer" as your major of interest on your entry forms, you can still switch majors and end up with something completely different on your diploma. College is full of choices, and the first year is an excellent time to explore them all.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
quote:But my mother tells me I don't practice enough, and that being a music teacher, I could never support myself financially.
Do you know how much music teachers make!? They do pretty well. I worked for a school and the teachers made about $25-$30 an hour! If you can advertise well you can have plenty of students, trust me.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
That said, you do want to be sensible. My brother has been a music major for the last ten years. He now has four degrees in various musical disciplines, from composition to performance. And he still delivers pizza and pollinates corn for money, because he lacks the drive to apply his talent and the skills he's spent years and thousands of dollars honing.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
quote:Do you know how much music teachers make!?
I'd reply to this, but I'm too busy laughing my butt off.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Your butt detaches? Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
Why is the assumption that majoring in music would lead to being a music teacher, anyway? I don't know much about music, but there have to be other jobs out there -- music therapy? choral director for some sort of Church group? Something in the recording industry? Sound engineer sounds like the sort of position that could potentially combine an interest in music with talent at math and science -- you wouldn't get a chance to play on the job, but you'd be surrounded by music and probably learn a lot to apply in your spare time.
I don't know; someone else brainstorm something.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Quid, don't I just wish.
There are jobs in music, but almost none of them pay well. You don't major in music for money.
That said, I know almost nothing about the recording and business side of things. All my experience has been with the performance/education/academic side of things.
I do know this, though: many recording majors aren't musicians at all, or if they are, they're the kind of musicians who've played guitar for a year or two in a garage band.
That, however, is apropos of nothing.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
quote:Why is the assumption that majoring in music would lead to being a music teacher, anyway?
Because unless you're ABSOLUTELY AMAZINGLY INCREDIBLY WONDERFUL, a performance career is highly unlikely?
Also, choir director for a church pays next to nothing, unless it's a really large wealthy church. I don't know about music therapy, though I've never actually met anyone who actually finished a music therapy degree. That's not to say it isn't done; I just haven't ever encountered anyone who's done it.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
quote: Do you know how much music teachers make!?
Megan said-"I'd reply to this, but I'm too busy laughing my butt off."
Why? In my area they do quite well. (I also did not mean in a PUBLIC school setting, maybe that's the difference.)
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
What's your area? Cause that might be the difference.
I mean, you can make a living off it, but it isn't nearly as lucrative as you're implying.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
My cousin is getting her Masters in Music Therapy. She works at a hospital in Houston and really seems to enjoy it.
Edit to add: I'd never want to be a music teacher at a public high school. They have little job security with all the cutbacks that are constantly being made.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
Oh, I know a performance career is unlikely, Megan. I just get frustrated at the notion that one's future job title should always perfectly overlay the words on one's diploma.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Lyrhawn, you've got it right there. When budgets get cut, the arts are the first to go. At IU, one of the best music schools in the country, the grad students are the lowest paid AIs (TAs) on campus.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I understand, ambyr, but unlike a lot of majors, majoring in one of music's subdisciplines pretty much prepares you for a career ONLY in that subdiscipline. You don't just major in music; you major in a specific sub-area, such as education, performance, recording, or, ahem, theory. Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
So? I guess I subscribe to the theory that what you're learning at an undergraduate level is mostly how to think critically and problem solve, and that if you can't widely apply that skill to lots of fields afterwards, you weren't doing something right.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I see what you mean, and I see how that applies to lots of normal undergraduate majors. It does not, however, apply to music. It's very hard to explain the conservatory training atmosphere of most music schools to people who have no experience with it. It's an extraordinarily specialized training that involves a much larger number of field-specific classes than other areas/majors. In music schools, they load you up with between 6 and 8 one to two credit hour courses that require much more time than one to two hours a week, in order to get in all the specialized training that it takes to study music.
Music schools do NOT aim at teaching you "how to think critically and problem solve" outside of music. You can learn that, I'm sure, but it isn't part of the program. There's no time for it. We're too busy learning how to be musicians.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote: "The person I thought cared about me the most, doesn't." This is regarding the issue with Matt. He kept lying after the third time he promised to be honest. And for some reason, I'm still friends with the guy, and we're going to the Homecoming formal together. The only problem with that- he forgot his promise that we wouldn't go with his best friend(see other thread for details on why I don't like his best friend). So I'll probably be spending the night with two people who hate me and one who can't seem to be honest or remember the things that are important to me. Matt doesn't even remember my birthday, and I've known the guy for 6 years
Here's a thought--don't reward the behavior of someone who lies to you and generally treats you like a doormat by going to Homecoming and Formal with them. You don't deserve to be treated that way, and will be better served by finding a guy who will treat you with respect. I know that you've described Matt as being an incredibly close friend in the threads devoted to your relationship with him, but I've seen close friendships, and the relationship you're describing doesn't bear much resemblance to them.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Tom I take issue with your interpretation of what I said. You *can* be something that isn't necessarily your first choice and be happy in it. I am. That was my point.
However the key sentence was this:
quote:And if you still cant see yourself, doing anything but music than go for it. But you have to remember that that passion will have to hold up during hard times.
If you are truly passionate, it will, and the money doesn't matter. If you aren't, it won't. And the choices really aren't a dichotomy between "music" and "engineering" either. There are a host of options in between that might end up suiting her better.
I'm truly passionate about a bunch of other things and for me, as I said, the engineering is a means to an end. I wonder what twinky would say, having made a very similar choice to Tinros.
AJ
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
Megan said - "I mean, you can make a living off it, but it isn't nearly as lucrative as you're implying."
It's just the facts, Megan. The teachers at my school made $25 an hour for about 6 hours a day. It was as flexible as they wanted so not all of them did 6 hours, but they could.
I'm in Ft. Laud.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Thanks for saying that, Noem. I was trying to figure out how to.
Tinros, you can tell Matt that you no longer feel comfortable going with him. You don't even need to give him a reason if you don't want to (and I recommend not letting on how unhappy you are with him, as it is likely to do little, and why give him that much power over you?)
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Bear in mind that there's no taxes taken out of that money, and anyone who teaches students privately has to make sure to reserve enough to pay taxes. Also, most people definitely do NOT have enough students to teach six hours a day, unless they're in a major urban area. It sounds like a lot, but honestly, most people I know who teach have to supplement their income with gigs, etc.
Still, though, $25/lesson is actually not that much; most people I know charge more than that. No one I know, however, has the 30+ students it would take to live off their lesson income--even if you COULD manage to teach 30+ people a week without wearing yourself out in very short order.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yeah, I second rivka's thanks to Noeman. I also didn't quite have the words in place to say that.
Tinros, I don't think going with Matt is a good idea. Overall, he sure doesn't sound like he is much of a friend.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
It's my opinion as an engineering student that if you don't enjoy the curriculum, you'll have a hard time staying with the program. Don't do it unless you actually get a thrill from solving math or physics or thermodymamics problems. If you're not that way, you need to have a lot of willpower to force yourself to do it.
As for whether it's more important to be financially stable or pursue something you love, well, I think it depends on how unstable your dream job is, and how happy it would make you. It's something you'll have to figure out for yourself. As a female, you may have some leeway in choosing a low-income career, because of the likelihood that you will marry someone who plans to work outside the home. Consider this, but don't depend on it. Just two cents, from someone who hasn't really had to support herself in the real world.
As for Homecoming, what Noemon said.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
quote:Music schools do NOT aim at teaching you "how to think critically and problem solve" outside of music. You can learn that, I'm sure, but it isn't part of the program. There's no time for it. We're too busy learning how to be musicians.
Oh, I see. Megan, we're talking about very different things, I think; I was talking about studying music in the context of a large university offering engineering as well as other programs, like at Purdue University (which Tinros brought up, and which, upon investigation, only offers music minors), where music would at most probably take up half your course schedule, whereas you're talking about going to a specialty school for music. I assumed, since Tinros's parents want her to at least try engineering, that the latter wasn't a possibility.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
There is a world full of things that pay better than a career in the arts, especially as you work your way up through that world. If you reach the pinacle of success in the arts, you would, of course, make more than you ever wanted.
Your parents probably just want you to not have to struggle.
But if something is your passion, does it really matter?
If you follow your passion, you'll be happier with what you do. Every day, every hour.
If you follow the money, and not your passion, you'll be happier with what you have and the lifestyle you can afford.
When I was in your situation, I received one excellent piece of advice: Do not make decisions by default. What this means is don't give up on your passion by letting external circumstances choose for you. If you don't get that scholarship, does that mean you shouldn't pursue a career in music?
No.
Make your choices for yourself. And if you have to revise them, then revise them.
It is possible to do both, even. Or relate the two. Look at Moog. He changed the world of music because he loved two things: sound and engineering.
Also, the best decisions are made with information. You might need to research what exists out there in both music and other fields you feel you may have an aptitude for. It's okay to be uncertain and to seek.
It's also okay to change your mind if, once you get in there, you find out that it's not for you -- whatever your choice is.
And remember that this is all a grand adventure. Enjoy it! If you aren't enjoying LEARNING, then it's seriously time to re-evaluate. Somewhere a wrong path was chosen.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Tinros,
You answered your own question when you said that music is your passion. You can get a scholarship if your parents won't help you out, or you can take out student loans. If music is your passion, there's no reason why you should do anything else.
No sense having a job you hate making a lot of money; you'll be miserable. Rich, but miserable.
I'm an electrical engineer, and a singer/guitar player. Engineering pays the bills, and I play gigs a couple of times a week for fun. This works out good for me. I enjoyed engineering in college, and I love playing music. But I'm too practical, and not talented enough to pursue it as a career.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Sorry this is so long, Tinros... please read it to the end.
Plenty of people make a living as teachers...
Also, believe it or not, you don't have to be "absolutely freaking amazing" to have a performance career in music.
1st example -- some instruments are hard to find. I know a pair of cellists who are very good, but nothing unheard of... all-region in high-school... and both of them have Orchestra Jobs, one of them has played with the Cleveland Pops and a couple of other well known Northeastern orchestras. (Edited for Megan) Apparently, cellists who pursue a career in symphony all the way through to fruition are rare, as neither of them had to wait for someone to die to get a job.
2nd example -- diversify. An old friend of mine, Daniel Di Silva (I haven't seen him in a few years), plays several instruments and sings beautifully. He hires out as a percussionist, teaches private lessons, and has a Catholic ministry band, Crispin. Now, he happens to be one excellent musician, with a degree from the University of North Texas (which is to Jazz as Juliard is to classical music) and has played with some pretty notable people, but he does manage to support himself through music and has as long as I have known him.
3rd example -- commercials. The lead singer of my old band made a passable living singing Jingles. I'd refer you to him for a "how to" guide, but he passed away a few years ago. Nonetheless, simply singing "My! My! Black Eyed Pea!" netted him some good money. If you have a good voice, you can make a living at this. Lee always said that he deeply regretted letting his parents talk him out of having a music career when he was younger.
These are all people who make money playing and singing. Chances are you've never heard of any of them. But they all are able to make money musically and I'm pretty sure Rhett and Kristy support themselves nearly exclusively through music (Annie is married and I think Annagrey is as well). When you can appear without a back up band, your overhead goes way down and you get to keep whatever you make.
5ht option -- Sell out. I humbled myself and started playing with a little country/western and classic rock band (though I got some Matchbox 20, Rob Thomas, and Semisonic thrown into the mix, too) in dives around Dallas. After a short time, we were getting upwards of $500 a night to play and we were booked Fri/Sat every weekend for about 6 months in advance at one point. Now, that may not sound like much $ when you divide it between 4 people and realize that we had to buy our own PA, BUT, I need to emphasize that this was strictly pick up. We almost NEVER rehearsed and I might have been the best singer in the band, which is saying something about how bad we were. Also, we did very little leg work and no promotion work getting gigs. In other words, once every few weeks, we would walk into a few clubs and ask if we could audition some time. That was the extent of the work we put into this. With a decent amount of effort and a modicum of talent, it's possible to make a good living playing around locval clubs.
ALL THAT HAVING BEEN SAID. Money is a lot more important to your happiness than you probably realize right now, and money pressures are real and ugly. Make sure you *really* want the music career if you go for broke with it. I can testify that it is pretty easy to have musical outlets as an engineer-- I helped write and record 22 songs, funded about half of their recording, and played out a whole lot all while holding down an engineering job
[ September 01, 2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
quote:Apparently, even competent Cellists are rare.
This is absurd. It's so absurd, I'm having trouble forming a cogent response to it.
I was a cellist, a cello major in undergrad. I KNOW how many competent cellists there are.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
All I'm saying, Megan, is that I know these people personally, went to high school with one, and they were not amazing super astounding musicians. I do not mean to say that they weren't talented. I mean to say that they were not unbelieveable, and they managed to get jobs playing the cello with orchestras (one plays viola, too, to be fair).
edit: *shrugs* maybe they knew someone. The one who played in Cleveland was good enough to get a scholarship... I'm not trying to say they were hacks by any stretch.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Ok, I'll admit that having to be amazing to get a performance job was a bit of hyperbole (it was late, and I was feeling silly). Still, to me, talent and incompetence when it comes to playing an instrument are mutually exclusive. Competent cellists are most certainly NOT rare. Your friends must have some pretty solid talent in order to get orchestra jobs, which usually have 100+ applicants to every spot.
The violist...yes, that's another story. Viola is an instrument that doesn't have a lot of players, so, yes, it's easier for a violist to get a job.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
But perhaps in his area they are more rare?
I DO know that if you are decent at French Horn you can get hired a LOT easier than if you are decent at flute, from personal experiences. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I have many passions and activities, and I have a practical job. I hated it the first few years, but now I don't mind, mostly because I absolutely adore the boss and company I work for.
Also, it is pretty cool. Much of it is boring, but there are parts that I like and I feel like much of it fits me.
It's nice not to worry about money. I'm not wealthy, and I can't do everything I want, but I don't worry about it. I don't worry about the grocery store, or if my car breaks down, or rent, or having enough for the doctor. I think about money because I have to and because I like to play more than I can afford so I have to pick and choose, but I don't worry. And since I can leave my job at the office, the evenings and weekends are all mine, to follow my passions with peace of mind.
That's worth a lot.
---
For the guy, I agree with Noemon. If he makes you unhappy more than he makes you happy, then he's not a friend, no matter what kind of person he is. His personal qualities matter less than the health of your relationship, and the relationship, sweetheart, sounds really crappy.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Kwea, it's distantly, remotely possible, I suppose, but I'm pretty familiar with the cello "scene," and competent cellists just aren't rare. It's a fairly popular instrument, which means there are lots of talented teachers who produce lots of talented students.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Why not minor in music? Or double major in Engineering (or something else you'd enjoy that would pay the bills) and music??
I used to work as a student worker at the library where I went to school. I was very good. I practically ran the library, and I was just a student. I had supervisors, of course, but I had a lot of responsibilities and I worked a lot of hours. One day, the librarian was commenting how nobody was indispensible...not her, not me.. nobody. The library would go on without us. And she was right. Last I heard, they were doing fine...but also still using the manual I had written for part of the job. That made me feel good. So I wasn't indispensible, but I made my mark.
I majored in English in college. My mother wanted me to go to college, but she never told me what ot major in. She was always supportive. But see, I didn't understand that there was a broad range of jobs out there in the big bad world. I honestly thought my only options would be Pediatrician and English teacher. I decided on English teacher because I couldn't stand the sight of blood. Silly, isn't it? I should have realized that nothing was really out of my reach. I dreamed about exotic jobs like oceanography and archaeology...but I never thought that I could do them. That was for other people... people who had been working for that goal since high school. But I was wrong. I think if I could do it all over again, I'd do archaeology with an emphasis on linguistics. You ever watch Stargate?? Well, I want to BE Daniel Jackson. Heh... But more like a Daniella...because I'm happy being a girl.
It's the other areas in our lives where we can't be replaced. We can't be replaced in the lives of those who love us. Even if you get married and die (God forbid), and your husband marries again...he still hasn't replaced YOU. Another wife, yes. But no one can really replace you. That wife is loved for being her own self...not because she's filling your role. You could never be replaced in the hearts of your parents, either.
Is a music career what you want most in your life because you were recommended for a scholarship? I ask because I have been very impressionable in my life...especially in high school. If someone told me I would be good at something, it could completely change the direction in my life as I went toward that goal. (An English teacher told me that he thought I would be a good English teacher.) Give it some time to figure out what you really want for the rest of your life. It will hopefully be a long time, and you don't have to make the decision now.
And your dad is right about them being able to replace you in your music groups. Of course they can. But that doesn't matter...what matters is that if you want it, that's YOUR space. You can add something beautiful and unique to the group...something nobody else could do.
Trust me...being financially stable is SUPER important. It's no fun living paycheck to paycheck, and trying to figure out what bills to put off until next month. You also need to consider that making music your JOB might take all the fun out of it. There's no reason in the world why you can't have a job doing one thing, and a hobby playing music.
As for Matt... It sounds like there is a big difference between who Matt really is and who you think he is. He's young... it's not like he'll be acting like this forever...he'll probably grow out of it. But in the meantime... please move on and save yourself more heartache. It seems like your whole social life is wrapped up in him...he has his boys, where are your girls?? You know that old song.. (probably not..it is old, after all)... God help the mister who comes between me and my sister(s), and God help the sister who comes between me and my man... Well...where are your sisters, girl?? Cause you need some bad. Let Matt go for now. Let him be with his friend... YOU might not like him, but chances are, MATT does, but is too timid to tell you that. Guys are weird.. they like each other even when they act stupid.
Anyway...I also recommend that you not go to any formals with this boy. Do your best to forget about him by going and making new friends. In a few years, if it's right, you'll meet again all grown up..and it'll be great.. if it's right.
-Katarain
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
"Competent" was an exaggeration... and also my very successful cellist friend had her heyday 10-15 years ago... perhaps the market was different then?
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Perhaps; there are actually fewer jobs available now as orchestras continue to lose money and decline, so the competition for every job (even the not-so-great ones) is fairly intense. The scarcity of jobs is actually one of the reasons I decided not to continue majoring in performance. That, and I'm a big ol Nerd when it comes to academic music. Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
Your huge posts are welcome here, Tinros!
How did you find out that your depression is genetic? Or, another question: have you always been depressed? Maybe there's something to be done to relieve it. It sounds like an upsetting time -- anybody might feel sad, genetic depression or not.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I think that if you can double major in engineering "and something," you're going to the wrong university. Getting a minor is possible, but you'd better have some solid work ethic. If you study engineering, it will be your life while you're in university. It doesn't matter how smart you are, engineering is hard for everyone. The sheer volume of work ensures that even outright genuises have to put some effort in.
I pursued engineering because it was what I thought society and my family expected of me. My mother still gets upset when I tell her that I'm not passionate about my job (she was a teacher). If I'd had my way I'm sure I'd be on the road to rock stardom even now. But I lucked out -- I like engineering, and I like my job. It's interesting and challenging. It also not only pays the bills, but allows me to support my expensive hobbies (music, gadgets, video games) while still saving for my eventual retirement -- within a couple of months of starting my first job after graduating I'd bought a clavinova, and two months ago I bought a new acoustic guitar. With most other degrees I'd be looking at thousands of dollars of debt rather than shiny new musical instruments. I have no debt.
If I can be said to be passionate about anything, it's music. In fact, just last night I was up altogether too late recording a new piece. But my job affords me both the time (good vacation package) and the means (good pay) to pursue my interests and hobbies. I don't regret my chosen career path.
Tom's wrong, by the way -- I'm not one of those people who disassembles calculators for fun, and yet I somehow manage to be happy with my job. I might not be an engineer for the next 40 years but it'll certainly be for a good chunk of that (unless I wind up as the live-in love slave of a rich and wealthy woman ).
I'm not necessarily advising you do what I did. You're very, very different from me in many respects, so what's worked out fantastically well for me might be awful for you. But engineering is not, contrary to what some have said on this thread, a lifestyle choice. It can be, if you want to climb the responsibility ladder -- in fact, a few people in my group spent the last couple of nights at work because of a problem in the plant -- but it isn't necessarily the case.
If music is the only thing you care about in the whole world, though, and you're sure that's what you want, go that route. I couldn't say that about myself, so I went the other way.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Also, there are options out there besides music and engineering. If you don't want to be an engineer but don't think you can make a financially stable career out of music, you might want to consider a different profession. I wanted to be a famous sf/fantasy author in high school, but until I got to college I never considered the possibility that I would enjoy technical writing and editing just as well, if not better. Universities are great places to talk to people in all kinds of crazy fields and find one you'd be happy in.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
(Aside: Brinestone, if you like tech writing and are thinking about grad school, I recomend the program AFR is in at Utah State. They aren't ready for PhD students yet, but they have a very good online tech writing masters' degree.)
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I don't plan on going to grad school at this point. I may reconsider when I'm 50 or so, but for now, I'm not up for more school, especially since I plan on having kids soon.
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