I knew it was an evil world we live in. But this is pretty bad. Shooting at a rescue helicopter? This looting is unreal. They’re saying gangs control the streets armed with AK-47’s.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Although I just mentioned that at the end of This Thread, you are probably right that the direction of this topic deserves a new thread.
FG
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I heard about this on the raido about an hour ago...
It is a sad state of affairs, to be sure, and it really makes me angry.
How many people will suffer because of these idiots? How many people who were oging to volenteer to help are going to change their mind because of the dangers?
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
I posted this quote in the earlier thread, but it is probably more appropriate here.
"Tempers were beginning to flare in the aftermath of the storm. Police said a man fatally shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice in Hattiesburg, Miss."
It is absolutely unbelievable what we humans are capable of doing. It just shows the importance that society plays in keeping us civilized.
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
Sounds like we need to pull the troops out of Iraq and invade New Orleans. People are always declaring martial law in the movies. What does it take for it to happen in real life?
Seriously, though, I think the police and military should treat looters in Louisiana like insurgents in Iraq. Taking a TV is one thing, but carjacking buses from nursing homes and trucks taking supplies to hospitals is a whole different type of crime. If they live by the AK-47, they should die by the AK-47.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I am deeply upset by this.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Speed, martial law has been declared (on Tuesday). But many police precincts are flooded or otherwise all but incapacitated.
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
wow. I thought it was still just a state of emergency. Guess I'm behind on my news. Thanks.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Ya know I had no idea how bad it was until last night. I was busy wrapped up in my own little misery that is this week...
But OMG... People shooting at rescue workers? People camping on the remains of I-10? It's like a bad movie.
When I first read how bad it was on Yahoo I said to my husband "Thousands dead? We don't have natural disasters like that in America! Not anymore!" I just couldn't believe it. We have "50 dead" or sometimes "100 dead"... but Thousands?
I'm at a loss...
Pix
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I think they were probably shooting in the air, trying to attrack the attention of the rescue choppers.
But still, how dumb can you be.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
We saw this on the news tonight.
I cannot *believe* people would shoot at helicopters evacuating others. It just doesn't make sense.
The Pixiest - in terms of your response, I guess that's how the news stations have been reporting it here. "The world's richest nation, now with third world conditions... " etc etc.
But what really shocks me is not that it happened - it's a natural disaster - but people's response. Shooting police, shooting rescuers - that is what I find hard to fathom in a first world country, and in America.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Shows you how thin the sheen of civilization can be.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
The behaviour of the people in New Orleans is an embarassment to our country and to humanity as a whole...
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Yeah. And it's saddening.
[Edit - this was to AFR. I'm not sure any other community would behave differently, giventhe circumstances. ]
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Well, it's an unfortunate sociological experiment gone bad.
It's a fact that most of the people left behind were those who didn't own or have access to cars. These are the poor and destitute, and I'm not surprised they've seized this chance to try and improve their standing in the world. Nor am I surprised with the way they went about it. It sucks, but I saw this coming three days ago. Total Anarchy.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I would say that is a little overstated, although I am sure there are some area like that...
Overall though I doubt it, nd we will impose those rules in thise areas again before too long.
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
Is it just me, or does this article seem more fitting now than when it was written?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
That issue of the Onion is some of my all time favorite writing, ever.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Shows you how thin the sheen of civilization can be."
I call dibs on the conch.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
It's very simple, really. Don't arrest the looters, it takes too much time away from policing the streets. Instead, zippertie them to a lamppost and write LOOTER across their forehead with a Sharpie.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Cruel and unusual punishment is against the Constitution, Chris.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Drat.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
So don't write looter on their forehead.
NOLA's under martial law - the constitution's on hold.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Hm. I'm not sure it's cruel. And there's no rule against simply unusual punishment.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*serious* With the situation as it currently is, too many people might take it upon themselves to torture and/or kill someone. Not deliberately setting out to do anything that drastic, but mobs can be frightening things.
Looting is bad, no question. But I don't think it deserves that sort of penalty.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Dibs on the pig's head. Wanna play capture the flag?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You can't call dibs. I've got the conch, so you can't even talk. So there.
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
Luckily, we probably all have spectacles.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
That's it, I'm going savage.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
The looting I saw was mostly people breaking into grocery stores for food. Is that just how it started? I don't have cable, so I get news in broken bits.
If I was stranded with only a bottle of water and peanut butter sandwich for three days, would I bust into a Safeway and get food for my family? Food that would probably be bad in a week anyway?
YES. Yes I would. THAT kind of looting... I totally get it. I saw a woman put out a cigarette before going into a grocery store, to loot. That is some deeply ingrained law-abiding behavior, to put out a cigarette before going into a store to 'loot' (though it was a food store). I get that. I really do.
Stealing jewelwry and TVs and $500.00 shoes? That's... not a matter of necessity.
I think some people are arming themselves to protect themselves against the gangs. It's crazy. Understandable, I guess, but frightening.
Who was it that said no civilization is more that three meals away from revolution?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
President Bush is beginning to look extra-crispy cluless.
This is what happens when people are hungry, dammit.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
They've already engaged 28,000 troops and more are almost certainly going to be on the way... it's not like order's going to be restored overnight...
And it's not going to go quickly with people firing shots at rescuers.... as someone on a military forum I frequent said, can you imagine surviving Iraq or Afghanistan to be shot trying a humanitarian effort in a major US city?
Edit: now I'm seeing 2800 troops there with 1400 a day arriving... that's a drastically different estimate than the first one I got. I guess we have to remember that we really don;t know what's going on there...
[ September 01, 2005, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
He still looks foolish saying "these people" need to controll themselves. 1. They can't hear him. 2. They are hungry and desperate in a way most of us (especially our priviledged commander in chief) don't really understand.
I VOTED for the guy (once) and I'm cringing. And ashamed.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
quote: New Orleans hospital halts patient evacuations after coming under sniper fire, a doctor who witnessed the incident says. More soon.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Now is not the approbate time for political rhetoric
[ September 01, 2005, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Is it teh approbate time for speeling?
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Doctors at two desperately crippled hospitals in New Orleans called The Associated Press Thursday morning pleading for rescue, saying they were nearly out of food and power and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters.
I have to think that at least a few of these people who would loot a hospital so badly that the doctors have to move higher -- have got to be druggies who haven't been able to get a fix for days now.
I've seen an addict come down -- it isn't a pretty sight. If there are many of those types of desparate people around -- they can be extremely dangerous...
FG
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Why were there still tens of thousands of people in the city? I thought that it was supposed to be evacuated long before the huricane hit.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I didn't mean to be political. I usually avoid all political stuff. I was just saying what I felt, not really thinking.
I need more time to process tis before I can reall think coherently about it.
I apologize if I have offended anyone. I didn't mean to.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I have a stupid question.
Why don't we send in thousands of military helicopters and airlift out the survivors?
When I didn't see this right away, I thought to myself, ok, they're just waiting for the storm to subside.
But the skies are clear. Where is the military?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Iraq? I really don't know. Large numbers of troops are definitely elsewhere. I don't know how that affects this, though.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
Once again FG's post makes me think of a movie. Edit: the post about the hospital
It brought to mind the movie 28 Days Later - waking up in a hospital to find that your city has been destroyed and your life is threatened by a bunch of human zombies.
Sometimes truth is scarier than fiction.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
What about civilian helicopters?
These people are going to DIE!
*sigh*
Wait, I just realized that some looters are shooting at helicopters. Sorry for these stupid posts. I can't think straight at this moment.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Yeah, I was about to point out that helicopters are coming under fire...
Olivet, you and FG made all those posts over a period of about 2 minutes... it's likely that the one was made while you were posting the other...
But at the risk of dredging it back up, I don't see the Bush comments you are fuming over in the transcript CNN has... could you tell me where to look?
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Olivet - I'm sorry. I hadn't seen your apology when I was typing my post. (and got interrupted with a phone call as I typed) I will delete it
Farmgirl
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I got it of a link in someone else's LJ post.
And since I agree that this shouldn't be political, I'm not going to post it.
I'm really upset right now. I did not mean to attack the president. I only meant to express my sadness at the shame I feel regarding this whole snafu.
Plus, I think FG can chose to explain herself, or not, as she wishes. I've always liked FG. Edit: and there it is. :)I figured.
I promised my Beloved that the next time I cried over some stupid internet forum, it would be my last time. So I'm going to get myself some distance.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
((Olivet))
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
*Ok, enough touching. Give me some space*
Posted by calaban (Member # 2516) on :
National Guard helicopters were in use from the begining of the crisis. Very few vehicles other than the blackhawk and other military choppers are capable of mass rescue.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but the disaster came at the end of the month. Many of the poorest were tapped out already and waiting on their welfare checks at the beginning of the month.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
"Three second rule! Three second rule!"
Anyone else watch Xiaolin Showdown?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think it'd be logistically almost impossible to get welfare money to those people under the circumstances.
I think each state (except Alaska and Hawaii obviously) should agree to take in a certain number, whatever they can readily make room and have the supplies for. I know some states are already offering aid, but I think every state can do more than just send money and utility trucks. I wish my own state would send busses like TX did, pick up a couple thousand people and truck them over here, and find a place for them. There's plenty of room in Michigan.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
It seems like the very poorest people are a lot less willing to buy in to our common concept of civilization, that we're all neighbors, that we pull together, etc. Probably because the reality they live in doesn't show this face to them very often. Much more they see indifference, rapacious money dealings (the people who make their living selling to the poor usually take a large markup to make it worth their while), and constant signals from society at large that they don't belong and aren't part of us.
I'm not trying to excuse lawless behavior but to understand it, so that we can figure out how to make it happen less.
How much do hopelessness and powerlessness feed into this scenario? Almost all the people with resources to leave (including knowledge, strength/health, and good sense, as well as cars and money and family to go to) evacuated ahead of the storm. That was the wise thing to do, right? So those who are left are mostly those least able to cope with life in general. It's not surprising that civilization was so fragile in that situation.
I really wonder, too, how well any of us would be doing if it were us in there instead of them. How deeply is civilization inside of us, and how much does it depend on external conditions? I like to think we'd all act well in such a situation, but I just don't know.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I'm reminded again of the CS Lewis quote I posted elsewhere here:
quote:"The load, or weight, or burden of my neighbor's glory should be laid daily on my back, a load so heavy that only humility can carry it, and the backs of the proud will be broken. It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and corruption such as you now meet, if at all, in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or the other of these destinations. It is in light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people..."
— C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory and Other Addresses (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Publishers, 1966), pp. 14-15.
I myself am pretty sure we are all capable of becoming creatures of horror or ones that inspire worship. There have been many times when I had to rely on myself in the crux of a situation, and I didn't really know how I would handle it before the moment itself.
Sometimes I rose to the occasion. Sometimes I didn't.
I am less interested in blaming individuals than I am in setting up and maintaining those systems which make it easier and more likely to be civilized. When this sort of thing happens habitually in the wake of widepread disaster, it seeme (to me) to say more about us as a people -- about what we need, what we are and are not capable of -- than it does about the actions of any one person.
Like Tatiana, I'm most concerned with getting aid to those in need, and then most concerned with figuring out how to safeguard against people being placed in such extremity again.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:I really wonder, too, how well any of us would be doing if it were us in there instead of them. How deeply is civilization inside of us, and how much does it depend on external conditions? I like to think we'd all act well in such a situation, but I just don't know.
Not that we'd all act that way, but I think all of us are capable of that type of behavior. I think history has repeatedly shown that people regardless of background, social standing, intelligence, etc. are capable of this type of thing.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
And, equally regardless of background, social standing, and intelligence, etc., that people are capable of not behaving this way, too... even under stress.
this
quote:rapacious money dealings (the people who make their living selling to the poor usually take a large markup to make it worth their while)
struck a hugely resonant chord with me in light of recent experience... I almost posted a rant about it at the time but was too incoherent. I may revisit this, but I'm out of time here...
Posted by calaban (Member # 2516) on :
Why are we focusing on the bad, when so much good and heroism has come about from this event. People are working tirelessly on the behalf of the all victims of this calamity, including the small percentage of people who are in a dire enough place to be willing to do whats being reported. I still believe in the fundamental goodness of the average person. look again at the pictures for those where people help and then wonder at how good we are.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: It seems like the very poorest people are a lot less willing to buy in to our common concept of civilization, that we're all neighbors, that we pull together, etc. Probably because the reality they live in doesn't show this face to them very often.
The social contract only works if both parties (the individuals themselves and the society which they contract to) have something to gain.
There is a great entry in Wikipedia on contracts. It specifies that "generally, formation of a contract requires a bargain in which there is a manifestation of mutual assent to the exchange and a consideration (see also consideration under English law)." Consideration refers to the acquiring of a benefit, "meaning that every party is conferring a benefit on the other party or himself sustaining a recognizable detriment, such as a reduction of the party's alternative courses of action where the party would otherwise be free to act with respect to the subject matter without any limitation. [italics added]."
There are also conditions under which a contract may be broken, in which the obligation entailed by the contract may lawfully be escaped from: e.g., duress, misrepresentation, it becomes impossible to perform according to the contract, etc. I often mull over these when I think about conceptualizing the social contract the US has with its most marginalized citizens.
I'm not trying to excuse any looting or uncivilized behavior, mind you -- I hope I would behave better in similar circumstances. But I don't think that is the crux of the matter, once we get beyond the point of crisis. The crux will be "how can we set up our systems to handle this better in the future?" How can we best enable one another to be as civilized, virtuous, and Making as possible?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by calaban: Why are we focusing on the bad, when so much good and heroism has come about from this event. People are working tirelessly on the behalf of the all victims of this calamity, including the small percentage of people who are in a dire enough place to be willing to do whats being reported. I still believe in the fundamental goodness of the average person. look again at the pictures for those where people help and then wonder at how good we are.
calaban, absolutely. There's a link to stories of heroism floating around here. It deserves its own thread, too.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
Calaban, Yes, I did briefly think about this too when I read about all the police officers that had quit in the last few days. Why didn't they all quit? What motivated the others to keep working? It certainly isn't because of their meager salary that they continue to risk their lives. The fact that there are good, selfless people that are not acting out of greed is the one bright spot in all of this.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Honestly, I think the bad should be focused on here. ::ducks::
Continue to focus on the bad until it gets solved, get attention focused on it, get people in there to fix it. When it's all over we can honor the heroes over and over, but until it is over, we need to know where the problems are to stick those heroes into.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
The reason the welfare checks makes such a difference is in the number of people who were not able to leave New Orleans simply because they couldn't afford to.
They also couldn't afford to stock up on emergency supplies. It wasn't meant as an indictment of the welfare system, but as one factor that contributed to this disaster.
Poverty isn't the culprit, just a co-conspirator in this.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
While I don't want to "make political hay" out of this tragedy either, some issues must be addressed now rather than later. Otherwise we'll forget - like the proverbial roof that doesn't get fixed when the sun is shining.
1) Because of the recent repeal of the tough environmental policies, federal agencies have stopped protecting millions of acres of wetlands. These wetlands that might have mitigated some of this.
2) About 35% of the Louisiana Nat'l Guard is serving in Iraq. We could use them here about now.
3) The New Orleans Corp of Engineers had their budget cut by more than 40% last June. This halted (among other hurrican and flood projects) a study to protect the region from hurricanes.
I understand the desire to keep politics out of things, but the fact is that policies are set by politicians and these policies have real consequences for real people. If we don't look at these things now, when will we?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
1.) I agree with you entirely on your first point, and it's sad that it took such devastation for people to realize that wetland conservation isn't just about saving the pretty trees and animals, it has a direct effect on humans as well.
2.) Not as big of a deal. There are plenty of other National Guardsmen units in the surrounding states that are on the way. Flying home the troops from Iraq would take 10 times longer than it would just to bring in neighboring states. Also, keeping them in their home state because there MIGHT be an emergency isn't practical.
3.) Another good point, and again, it's sad that it too an emergency to get people to realize they should put more attention on prevention rather than clean up.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote: Originally posted by Tatiana: It seems like the very poorest people are a lot less willing to buy in to our common concept of civilization, that we're all neighbors, that we pull together, etc. Probably because the reality they live in doesn't show this face to them very often.
As was posted in another thread, David Brooks has an editorial with some history of the 1927 New Orleans flood, in which the people in power flooded poor areas to save richer ones, and whites put blacks in labor camps. The rich lose much of the trappings of civilised society in disasters too, and they have considerable power to use to protect their interests at the expense of others.
It's a human failing not restricted to the poor.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Forgot to add the part where the negroes were forced at gunpoint to stay where they were, while the last evacuation ship sailed off with the ship's band playing "Bye-Bye Blackbird".
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: While I don't want to "make political hay" out of this tragedy either, some issues must be addressed now rather than later. Otherwise we'll forget - like the proverbial roof that doesn't get fixed when the sun is shining.
1) Because of the recent repeal of the tough environmental policies, federal agencies have stopped protecting millions of acres of wetlands. These wetlands that might have mitigated some of this.
2) About 35% of the Louisiana Nat'l Guard is serving in Iraq. We could use them here about now.
3) The New Orleans Corp of Engineers had their budget cut by more than 40% last June. This halted (among other hurrican and flood projects) a study to protect the region from hurricanes.
I understand the desire to keep politics out of things, but the fact is that policies are set by politicians and these policies have real consequences for real people. If we don't look at these things now, when will we?
Wow, hindsight doesn't even need glasses!
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Of COURSE it's hindsight! Is there someting wrong about looking at our decisions and the consequences of those decisions, so maybe we might make better decisions next time?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yes. It's called taking History.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Not sure what you mean. IS there something wrong with taking history? Or do you mean we should wait for a long time before trying to learn from events? How long? Does it have to be in a class? Huh?
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Also, please see the "Can't say we didn't see it coming" thread.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I hope that this clear indication that something's wrong with letting the gaps between rich and poor get too large will allow America, and other similar countries to start putting the brakes on the growing economic gulf.
All those buses heading to the city now should have headed to the city in the evacuation period before the hurricane.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
kmb, I'm actually a huge fan of history. But I'm honestly reminded of a conversation from battlestar galactica. One character tells another, "Leave the second guessing to the historians."
Whether they be elementary school studens or college professors, now isn't the time to say who screwed up and how and how it could've been prevented. Right now, there's a hundreds of thousands of people that need help. It happened. What happens next is another page in the history book. And we're all a part of it.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
well said.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
When IS the time to look at bad decisions that lead to tragedy? When we've forgotten? After we make the same bad choices over and over again?
It seems that more and more we have bad policy decisions that lead to tragedy and then we are told that criticizing or questioning those policies is in bad taste or, worse, unpatriotic - because we're in the middle of a tragedy! Even those who warned of the consequences ahead to time.
This is not a monarchy. As citizens it is our DUTY to "second guess" our government.
None of this negates the need to help those who need it now - I never suggested it did.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I'd say the time to look back and figure things out would be once folks are relatively safe again. That's all. The midst of a tragedy in the midst of a rescue isn't a time to bicker and point fingers, because resources are lost, people are lost, and people die. You do what needs to be done and save all you can. Once that's completed, you take a step back, take a deep breath, and figure out when things went to hell and how you can keep that from happening again.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I don't really understand how, here in Chicago where the best thing I can do is click "donate" buttons, I'm hampering the rescue effort by raising questions on a forum. I'm not button-holing the director of FEMA, and if you should be out there doing something other than debating with me...well, by all means.
My problem with waiting is that our attention span is terrribly short. And the attention from the media even shorter. If we don't make the point now, we'll forget or get distracted. The news channels will move on to the newest thing and so will we.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Amen, kmbboots. I think it's the job of those of us who aren't in a position to physically help to a) donate what we can and b) keep the bad things as well as the good alive past the time when people will want to forget, so justice can be served in the long run.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
It's not just about serving justice, but making better decisions (or electing people who will). We need to recognize that politics is not hypothetical.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Although I really like the justice thing, too!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Part of justice would be not re-electing, or even removing from office, people who screwed up and cost lives.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Forgetting about whether criticize can interfere with relief efforts, there's another reason to pause before assessing what went wrong: we don't know the results yet. We don't have a chance to evaluate outcomes. The adjustments that have to be made now must be made with as complete information as possible, and no one here has it.
Quite frankly, it's impossible to point out what the biggest mistake is that's been made so far.
quote:1) Because of the recent repeal of the tough environmental policies, federal agencies have stopped protecting millions of acres of wetlands. These wetlands that might have mitigated some of this.
The wetlands reduce storm surge by about 1 foot for every 2.7 miles the storm travels over them. The wetlands have eroded by about 1,900 sq. milessince the 1930s. The current rate is about 24 square miles a year, about half the average rate since the 1930s.
The erosion of wetlands is the result of the levees in the Mississippi that cause the water to flow straight into the gulf instead of depositing silt, a policy that has been in place for a long time.
quote:2) About 35% of the Louisiana Nat'l Guard is serving in Iraq. We could use them here about now.
True, we could. Do we know the effect this has had on relief efforts? Not yet.
quote:3) The New Orleans Corp of Engineers had their budget cut by more than 40% last June. This halted (among other hurrican and flood projects) a study to protect the region from hurricanes.
This study wouldn't have been complete yet, so last year's budget cuts did not contribute to the problem.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
There have also just been massive cuts in general disaster preparedness since 2001. Quoting Friday's Financial Times:
quote:Overall, federal funding for hurricane-control projects in the region has fallen by almost half since 2001, from $147m to just $82m in the current fiscal year, which ends on September 30.
Furthermore, the budget the Bush administration has been floating for 2006 "called for a $71.2m reduction in federal funding for hurricane and flood prevention projects in the New Orleans district, the largest such cut ever proposed."
I think its clear the Bush administration is happy to cut funding from necessary areas that are out of the public eye in order to satisfy the pork barrel projects it chooses not to oppose in exchange for political support in Congress.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:According to the Associated Press, a general manager of a hotel in the French Quarter arranged hiring 10 buses to evacuate 500 guests from his and a nearby hotel for $25,000.
But the Federal Emergency Management Agency commandeered the buses and police told the guests to go to the nearby convention center, where a crowd, which was left without food, water or security, was growing angry, the AP said, quoting the tourists.
The tourists instead tried to cross a huge bridge blocks away, dragging their rolling luggage through broken glass, smashed bricks and trash, but they were turned back by police firing warning shots over their heads.
Also quoting the tourists, another media report said police cruisers rushed in with sirens and fired warning shots over their heads.
After their chartered buses were commandeered by the authorities and their hotels threw them out Thursday morning, police gave them conflicting information.
They were once told to head to the Superdome or the city convention center, and were later told to make their way to a highway overpass where buses would take them to safety.
The tourists were then turned away with police firing warning shots.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I'm just going to look at the bus-comandeering issue, not the warning shots.
Of course, I don't know how I feel about this. On the one hand, disaster officials need to be able to comandeer equipment in these situations. On the other hand, if 500 people were going to get evacuated, why stop them? They're going to have to ride out on buses eventually, and these refugees likely will be out of the relief effort's way since they are tourists, not residents.
I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That either has to be misreporting, or a fine example of stupidity in action.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, it doesn't say it was the same group. But apparently they are "well dressed" and have been there less time than the others, and the number is right.
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