Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.
Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?
Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!
I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?
And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!
On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.
There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.
No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!
You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.
Yours,
Michael Moore
Posted by johnsonweed (Member # 8114) on :
I just dislike extremists on either side.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
There's a lot of venom there from a fellow who wouldn't give the President an even break no matter what.
But it doesn't mean that there's no truth in what he's saying. This time, at least.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote:Originally posted by adam613: Michael Moore has quite the racket going. He gets PAID to TROLL.
Even though I tend to agree with Moore more than Bush (not on everything, but a lot), that is a totally awesome description of his style.
--Enigmatic
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
woah, nice.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Is that true that he flew to San Francisco the next day for a fundraiser?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
He does have a point about the choppers, and the National Guard, and the budget cuts for the Army Corps of Engineers.
But it's still a classless letter, about class, with very bad timing. Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
<Removed --PJ.>
[ September 04, 2005, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Chad, I don't understand how you can think it's acceptable to post what you just did.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Especially since half of America agree's with him. So only Georgia, Texas, Kentucky, Alabama, Florida, Luoisiana, Virginia and a few others would agree with you.
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
Oh come on! I'm not talking about his "followers" as people who may share some of his ideals. I'm talking about his followers in the "religious sense" who hold Michael Moore up as their Osama bin Laden and bringer of truth, etc. etc. The extremists that as far as I know aren't part of this board.
And 50% of Americans do not agree with him on all of his opinions.
SO please understand, I'm talking about Michael Moore specifically and only him. I'm not talking about anyone on this board directly or indirectly. If you felt that I was including you I apologize and will remove the followers line.
Sorry.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Oh, so you only urge a small percentage of Americans, that happen to disagree with you, to blast themselves. How refreshing, I feel much better.
At least Michael didn't have the ridiculous monomania to sign his letter "America." Posted by johnsonweed (Member # 8114) on :
Michael Moore's version of truth is often a bit peculiar, however, his point about the National Guard is right on.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Chad, I still think your post is in incredibly bad taste with or without the followers part. How would you feel if someone posted the same thing but substituted your name for Michael Moore's? Can you not disagree with someone without wanting them dead?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Shouldn't it be more of a murder suicide pact with Ann Coulter?
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
quote:There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you.
No really, like who Michael Moore? Only an idiot would do that?
I think he needed to put down his pen and think twice before he wrote that, but thinking as we know isn't one of Michael's strongpoints.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Lryhawn, I vote for Phelps to join the pact. His followers should just shut up and go home.
Although, that would involve Phelps in a pact with another man, so that's out. He's slippery!
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
quote:Lryhawn, I vote for Phelps to join the pact. His followers should just shut up and go home.
I agree.
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
quote:Chad, I still think your post is in incredibly bad taste with or without the followers part. How would you feel if someone posted the same thing but substituted your name for Michael Moore's?
I wouldn't really care I don't think. I think it's akin to posting something negative about the President of the United States or wishing he was dead, how would YOU feel? I'm sure people keep in mind President Bush's feelings when they post their opinions on him.
Sorry, I don't want him dead, just America would be better off without him. And lefties as well as he makes them look sooo bad.
But the Phelps comparison is a good one.
Michael Moore = Lefty's Phelps.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
CStroman, chill. Please. You're giving anti-mooreites a bad name.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
quote:Originally posted by CStroman:
quote:There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you.
No really, like who Michael Moore? Only an idiot would do that?
I think he needed to put down his pen and think twice before he wrote that, but thinking as we know isn't one of Michael's strongpoints.
Strohman: It's called sarcasm. DUH.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote:I think it's akin to posting something negative about the President of the United States or wishing he was dead, how would YOU feel?
Saying something negative about someone is NOT the same as saying he should put a gun to his head and kill himself. If someone said the same thing you did about George W. Bush, I would feel about it exactly what I do about your post.
quote:Sorry, I don't want him dead, just America would be better off without him.
Why did you say he should kill himself if you don't want him dead?
quote:Michael Moore = Lefty's Phelps
Did you read the Addicted to Hate website that was linked to in one of the threads about Phelps? Michael Moore is in no way as bad as Phelps.
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
quote:You're giving anti-mooreites a bad name.
You're just being nice with the "anti-mooreites" name.
But it is nicer than the name I had for the "pro-mooreites" so you win.
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
I thought "Addicted to Hate" was the slugline for Moore's website?
My bad.
Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
Chad, you are indeed over the line. Please rein in your enthusiasm.
--PJ
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I find that Moore gives good points among alot of badly put together stuff sometimes, COlunbine atleast was better then 9/11 in that regard.
But still alot of stuff mentioned is undenyable. He gives the evidence as he sees it with certain sources and leaves it to us to piece it together, my brother though Moore was trying to accuse Bush as being a terrorist, I just simply though that Moore s trying to make Bush seem like President Clarke from Babyoon 5 y'know trying to take over the government.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Columbine was more an assault on the media than it was on the NRA and Bush.
In that regard, I thought Bowling for Columbine was fantastic.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I, for one, wish there were more rescue helicopters to shoot at.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
With Soviet RPG's!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Why Soviet RPGs?
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
The trouble was, Bowling for Columbine was a piece of hack propaganda. Moore does a serious disservice to his causes by making it so easy for his detractors to label him a jackass.
The media is sensationalistic in America. That point could have been made without blatantly editing Charlton Heston until he's a sock-puppet.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I ignored a lot of that when I watched it. I know not everyone can, but I was more focused on the point he was trying to make about the media. Much of the news footage he used is from Detroit, it's the same news that I watch every night. I recognized almost all the anchors on the clips he showed. And his point is exactly why I don't watch the local news anymore.
Posted by TheSeeingHand (Member # 8349) on :
"But it doesn't mean that there's no truth in what he's saying."
Yes, he has a few points. But I really do NOT like extremists. I hate how people are saying Bush committed a mass murder. Pffft. Wow.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I think Bush senoir did more to commit mass murder then Dubya did. Y'know not stepping to stop the gassing of Khurds, bombing of infastructure which hurt the populace more then Iraq's war effort, telling Iraqi's to revolt yet not doing anything to help the Iraqi's when they did etc etc.
As for Bowling I've found that actually a large majority of that movie was okay and raised many interesting questions.
Posted by Eldrad (Member # 8578) on :
quote:Originally posted by johnsonweed: Michael Moore's version of truth is often a bit peculiar, however, his point about the National Guard is right on.
His comment about the National Guard was only half-right. The part that was wrong was placing the blame on the feds, because it's the state that has to mobilize their National Guard detachment.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
What's left of it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I got this e-mailed to me, too. Does anyone really know where it came from? I saw no proof it was actually MM, nor was it attributed to any source.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
--Enigmatic
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
quote:Originally posted by Eldrad: The part that was wrong was placing the blame on the feds, because it's the state that has to mobilize their National Guard detachment.
I've always been under the impression that it is the President's right to federalize the National Guard whenever he deems it necessary, enabling them to go in even if the state has not mobilized them.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
No, I think the governors have to request NG mobilization.
And the regular military is constrained inside the US.
The part about the Guard that Moore was right about is that they and their choppers (I assume they took lots of helos) are in Iraq. 1/3 of LA's Guard is in Iraq.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morbo: No, I think the governors have to request NG mobilization.
And the regular military is constrained inside the US.
The part about the Guard that Moore was right about is that they and their choppers (I assume they took lots of helos) are in Iraq. 1/3 of LA's Guard is in Iraq.
Not completly, or most of the Guard wouldn't be over in Iraq. The Gov's have to give the order to use them WITHIN OUR BORDERS, for the most part.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
I love how in Moore's version of reality, Bush actually CAUSED the storm by not instantly halting global warming and transforming the world's environment in five years Heck, if Bush would just get off his ass and engineer us a perfect environment, there'd never be another hurricane again!
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
quote:Not completly, or most of the Guard wouldn't be over in Iraq. The Gov's have to give the order to use them WITHIN OUR BORDERS, for the most part.
That is true. The Governor of a state has to authorize the National Guard NOT from their state to be able to enter it.
I truly believe had Bush just sent in the National Guard without authorization, the people shot today would have been chalked up politically as "Bush's Army Invades New Orleans with Orders: Shoot to Kill!".
Political pundits and media will spin or bend anything the president does to their political gain. The DNC led the charge with their website, and of course the Media took the cue.
Just try and look up stories of survival and rescue on Michael Moore's website.
HINT: They don't exist although the stories do.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Lyrhawn, I don't understand why you keep sticking on this. The President cannot order National Guards to do things in their home state. He is not their commander. It's the military. Just because something appears likely to make sense doesn't mean you get to just yank control from the commander.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
OH MY GOD! Moore actually has a following? I'm sure he'll make more money now for rhetoric!
The Mayor should have requested NG to his Governor .. NOT THE PRESIDENT@!!@#$#@$#@$(*
The state has to ask for the NG to be activated.. not the federal government! The Mayor didn't do this nor did the govenor! The LA NG didn't show up until Today! Texas showed up before their state did!
Yall need to get a grip on what the NG is and who activates them!
I'm so sick of everyone blaming the federal government for what the Mayor and State should have done! If it weren't for the feds overstepping their boundries, N.O. would still be in chaos!
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
*feels like a VERY small minority who loves Michael Moore*
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
Wow, you actually love him? Ok. Suprising, but by your other post understandable.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
AND I'm Libertarian! Weird huh?
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
No, not weird.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
I think it's weird for someone who is against government intervention in every facet of out lives to love a man who often pleads for more of it, but ok.
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
I am against government intervention? Only if the majority of the people are against it ala' democracy. I tend to lean more towards popular majority democracy than communism, anarchy or minority tyranny forms.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
Um. what? Am I totally misunderstanding you or you me? Just to be clear: I meant I am against government intervention (I am a Libertarian) and Michael Moore seems to always want more of it.. see?
Posted by CStroman (Member # 6872) on :
Ah, my bad.
Then what do you have in common that you like so much about him?
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
I like him for standing up for what he believes in. I like him for getting in people's faces and not backing down. I like his conviction and compassion. I like his willingness to DO something about the problems he sees, he is trying to change the world. I like that he is not a republican basher. He does not care who is in office as long as they are honest, knowledgeable and care about freedom. I like that he is always trying to get help for people who don't have the money or the fame to get help themselves. He is the hero of the underdog, to me. I don't always agree with everything he says, but I adore the man. I love John Stewart just as much, who seems to have a better reputation around here. I think JS wants many (not all! before you argue that point) of the same things MM does, he is just quieter. Now I am off to bed! So darn tired.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Very true, Treason: people may disagree with his tactics, but Moore does have the courage of his convictions. And he sticks up for the underdog.
[ September 05, 2005, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I don't find propaganda-spewing ideologues very courageous:) Or at least not the courage that's worthy of admiration. Fred Phelps is brave, after all, isn't he?
MM has made lots of money by being rudely in people's faces. It's not like it's a sacrifice for him to do so.
I fail to see evidence of much compassion. Certainly not above and beyond other people who are compassionate without the lying jackassery.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
Jon Stewart isn't quiet. He's just honest and fair.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
I'm wih Puppy on that one...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Jon Stewart is much better at presenting his views in a palatable way.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Jon Stewart doesn't completely edit his guests's words to the point that they're saying whatever it is he wants them to say, and then blast them for it.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
"Fred Phelps is brave, after all, isn't he?" Really? You REALLY want to say those two are alike? I can't take any argument you make seriously after that.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
"Jon Stewart is much better at presenting his views in a palatable way."
I totally agree.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I trhink he was saying that there is more to being brave than speaking your views....not that he admires Phelp's at all.
At least that is how I read it. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Or at least that being brave doesn't always make it OK to hold specific views, and proclaim them to all who will listen, anyway. Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
"Fred Phelps is brave, after all, isn't he?"
Godwin's law revisited.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
I really didn't think it meant he admires Phelps at all, I didn't say that. I said he is saying they are alike.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
Plus, I never said MM was brave, so I don't know where that came from.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
Treason... your true colors are shinning...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The line between brave and stupid is extremely thin.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Treason,
You're right, you didn't specifically say Michael Moore was brave. I inferred that from other things you said, since you were using words that could be synonymous with courage.
As for Phelps, I was pointing out that many of the things you said about Moore could be said of Phelps as well...and thus pointing out that the things you mentioned don't make an admirable person, necessarily.
And Glenn, I think Moore is Phelps-lite Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
quote: I think Bush senoir did more to commit mass murder then Dubya did.
Someone said something about reining in rhetoric?
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
"As for Phelps, I was pointing out that many of the things you said about Moore could be said of Phelps as well...and thus pointing out that the things you mentioned don't make an admirable person, necessarily."
There are things that can be said about anyone to make them sound good. I can say some of these things about Hitler as well, but I don't admire the man for goodness sakes. Phelps spouts hatred and bigotry and you compare him with a man who honestly wants to help people, no matter how annoying he is going about it? A man who expects our leaders to be hardworking and honest? I like Moore for all the things I said before, but I also just like HIM. I think he's a good guy, ok? I would have fun hanging out with him. He only wants to help people and make America a better place. I said before I don't always agree with him, but I respect him and I realize he is trying to do his best to make things fair and free for everyone.
Also- J T "Treason... your true colors are shinning..." I don't know what you mean, sorry.
BTW "Godwin's law revisited." there you go! Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
Michael Moore letter - I left out some of the parts that would annoy everyone, just wanted you to see where you can send help immediately :
But today I want you to join with me in bypassing the colossally inept and incompetent Bush administration and get help DIRECTLY to the people of the New Orleans area -- right now.
A lot of you have written me to ask what you can do. Many don't know who to trust. Many want to do more than write a check. You are right to think that writing checks to relief agencies will not get water and aid to people in the next 48 hours. Checks will be needed later and can be written later.
I have a way, though, for each and every one of us to do something today that can affect people's lives TODAY.
For the past few days I've been working with a group that, I guarantee you, will get direct aid to the people who need it most.
Cindy Sheehan, the brave woman who dared to challenge Mr. Bush at his summer home, has now sent her Camp Casey from in front of Bush's ranch to the outskirts of New Orleans. The Veterans for Peace have taken all the equipment and staff of volunteers and set up camp in Covington, Louisiana, on the shores of Lake Pontchartrain. They are accepting materials and personally distributing them to those in need.
This is where we come in. We need to ship supplies to them immediately. Today they need the following:
Paper plates, paper towels, toilet paper, baby diapers, baby wipes, baby formula, Pedialyte, baby items in general, powder, lotion, handy wipes, sterile gloves, electrolytes, LARGE cans of veggies, school supplies, and anything else to lift people's spirits.
You can ship these items by following the instructions on this site Or you can deliver them there in person. The roads to Covington are open. Here's how to get there. You can drop them off or you can stay and participate (if you stay, you'll be camping so bring your own tent and gear and mosquito spray).
If you can't ship these items or go there in person, then go to this site and make an immediate donation through PayPal. Camp Casey-Covington will have immediate access to this cash and can buy the items themselves from stores that are open in Louisiana (all donations to Veterans for Peace, are tax deductible).
Each day I will post up-to-the minute information as to what is needed and the progress Camp Casey is making. Please visit MichaelMoore.com often and do what you can to help.
Many other groups are also doing good work. MoveOn.org has set up a system for people to offer rooms in their homes to the survivors.
There is no time to waste. People are suffering and dying. Each of us can do something. There is no other alternative.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
You would have a good time hanging out with MM because you do admire him and think he's a good person, and primarily because of your politics.
It's plain to see how he treats those whose political beliefs differ from his, and it isn't with the respect, courtesy, and admiration you see in him, Treason. Moore routinely spouts off hatred and bigotry, as you correctly stated Phelps does.
I think it Moore honestly wanted to help people more than he wants to toot his own horn, he would behave differently. He's more than intelligent enough to know what his methods do to the opposition, and how likely he makes it that they will listen to him.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Incidentally, perhaps you can see my point when you have to edit his own letters to make them palatable. What he did to Charlton Heston-if you care enough to find out-demonstrates his character and integrity sufficiently for me.
Posted by MoralDK (Member # 8395) on :
quote:So is the war in Iraq causing troop shortfalls for hurricane relief in New Orleans?
In a word, no.
A look at the numbers should dispel that notion. Take the Army for example. There are 1,012,000 soldiers on active duty, in the Reserves, or in the National Guard. Of them, 261,000 are deployed overseas in 120 countries. Iraq accounts for 103,000 soldiers, or 10.2 percent of the Army.
That’s all? Yes, 10.2 percent. That datum is significant in itself, a good one to keep handy the next time someone talks about how our forces are stretched too thin, our troops are at the breaking point, and so forth. If you add in Afghanistan (15,000) and the support troops in Kuwait (10,000) you still only have 12.6 percent.
So where are the rest? 751,000 (74.2 percent) are in the U.S. About half are active duty, and half Guard and Reserve. The Guard is the real issue of course — the Left wants you to believe that the country has been denuded of its citizen soldiers, and that Louisiana has suffered inordinately because Guardsmen and women who would have been available to be mobilized by the state to stop looting and aid in reconstruction are instead risking their lives in Iraq.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
That is a load of crap.
Most to eh staeside personal left are support staff suooprting the troops in Iraq, and can't leave their posts because that would place US servicemembers at risk in Iraq.
The person who wrote that hadd ot either be ignorant of that fact, or lying to mislead the public.
We ARE streched out too thin, and even 10% of our troops missing takes a toll on the rescue efforts.
Just because someone isn't physically overseas doesn't mean they are free to help, or that they are not involved in the missions in Iraq...My aunt was never in Desert Storm, as in Iraq, but she was one of the higest ranking experts on rapid mobilization.
And she did her entire job for 4 years while remaining stateside. Posted by MoralDK (Member # 8395) on :
13% of our troops are over seas due to the war on terror.
Perhaps if the Mayor had a plan they wouldn't have had to release the entire prison population. Which must have contributed to the raping, looting, & shooting at rescue people & helicopters.
I mean seriously, why wasn't there any plans in advance for this nitemare?
quote:You would have a good time hanging out with MM because you do admire him and think he's a good person, and primarily because of your politics.
It's plain to see how he treats those whose political beliefs differ from his, and it isn't with the respect, courtesy, and admiration you see in him, Treason. Moore routinely spouts off hatred and bigotry, as you correctly stated Phelps does.
I think it Moore honestly wanted to help people more than he wants to toot his own horn, he would behave differently. He's more than intelligent enough to know what his methods do to the opposition, and how likely he makes it that they will listen to him.
I do wish you would stop putting words in my mouth. I don't believe I ever called MM respectful or courteous. That's not how he does things most of the time. He is like a sledgehammer.
Please give me some examples of his hatred and bigotry. I have never seen this. I have seen him be rude to people, I have seen him yell and I have seen him provoke but I've never seen the extremes that you do, I guess.
quote: Incidentally, perhaps you can see my point when you have to edit his own letters to make them palatable.
I did that for you and others in this thread who don't approve of him. I was trying to be nice. I am certainly not offended by him.
quote:What he did to Charlton Heston-if you care enough to find out-demonstrates his character and integrity sufficiently for me.
I already heard this whole story, thank you for assuming I did not "care enough to find out."
Here is what Moore said about it :
The Truth: Heston took his NRA show to Denver and did and said exactly what we recounted. From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word – read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was.
Why are these gun nuts upset that their brave NRA leader's words are in my film? You'd think they would be proud of the things he said. Except, when intercut with the words of a grieving father (whose son died at Columbine and happened to be speaking in a protest that same weekend Heston was at the convention center), suddenly Charlton Heston doesn't look so good does he? Especially to the people of Denver (and, the following year, to the people of Flint) who were still in shock over the tragedies when Heston showed up.
As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image – hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it?
You can go here and read the whole thing.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Treason,
Are you really going to tell me MM doesn't routinely espouse hatred and contempt for the Bush Administration in particular and conservative Republicans in general? If you really think he isn't, then we're just never going to find any common ground at all.
I don't think someone who cannot muster up respect for their opposition is worthy of admiration. I guess I assumed you thought that was important.
I didn't say you were offended by him, I said that it was an example of how hateful and bigoted he is that the people he routinely lies about and screams at can't stand to hear from him. You've admitted you admire the man. You're not the one he's screaming at.
I'm not going to visit Michael Moore's website. I prefer not to give him the money, however indirectly However, regarding Charlton Heston...
I assumed you didn't know the whole story, because plainly you didn't. You're trusting a man who by his own admission crafts propaganda about his own propaganda? Take a look at the websites I've linked here. It'll take maybe ten minutes of your time. I assure you, I've read Moore's explanations of his behavior before. Used to visit his website all the time. Used to, in fact, agree with him frequently and admire him somewhat.
Michael Moore is a hack. He's sleazy, propaganda-crafting, self-promoting blowhard. He's nice the way Pat Roberston is nice when he does great charity work on one hand and suggests the assassination of foreign chiefs of state on the other.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote: don't think someone who cannot muster up respect for their opposition is worthy of admiration. I guess I assumed you thought that was important.
Certainly that rule can't be set in stone. Not all opponents are worthy of respect to begin with.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
"Michael Moore is a hack. He's sleazy, propaganda-crafting, self-promoting blowhard. He's nice the way Pat Roberston is nice when he does great charity work on one hand and suggests the assassination of foreign chiefs of state on the other."
I am not going to argue with you anymore. It is pointless and I am tired of it. I was not name calling and being rude. I did not resort to this kind of talk about anyone you admire. Nor do I want to know who that may be. I don't feel the need to make myself look better by bashing people. Even Bush. I was only trying to defend a good man. I guess I'll be done with this thread.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't understand why Ann Coulter doesn't garner the same negative attention that Moore does.
Conservatives seem to hate him a lot more than Liberals hate Ann Coulter, and she is cut of the same cloth. Two sides of the same coin, I think I've said that before about them on Hatrack. I wonder what accounts for the difference.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
She garners it from me. I don't read, buy, or listen to a thing from her.
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Heck, if Bush would just get off his ass and engineer us a perfect environment, there'd never be another hurricane again!
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