Shani's no-longer meeting me in coffee-houses, Noah's not replied to my e-mail yet, Annie vanished, Hobbes is gone, OSC is not coming here, I have no idea how to write a play, my poetic mind is going blank, I can't manage more than fifteen pages of text in a novel, I can't write short stories, I don't know what meter haikus use, I'm sick of limericks and I'm running out of clever rhymes for classical, Italian sonnets.
I'm in the advanced maths group, which is all work and no fun, I understand the maths we're using in physics but we won't be doing astrophysics for another two years, I can’t programme but I must attend programming this year, I'm a little fed up with biology, in English we're not getting to the interesting stuff and no-one will let me graduate from that lesson even though I'm competent by all means, in Talmud we're doing boring stuff, there are too many good books that are being ruined by the programme in Jewish thought (=philosophy), no-one is able to tell me what "assonance" is in Hebrew, I just finished "The Catcher in the Rye" which I hated even though it's a good book, I can't manage to grasp enough phonetics to make a dictionary, and my English vocabulary - as sufficient as it is for most purposes including writing - is not good enough for me to understand law shows well.
I couldn't ask a girl out if my life depended on it, I don't know the way to talk on a date, and I doubt I ever will, I don't know enough of anything to specialise in it, my capability of conducting services and reading Torah seems to be descending lately, I can't find anyone to teach me the German tune of cantillation I don't know, I am getting worse at singing, I don't have good control over my voice, I have to wake up early every morning to go to school, I'm getting sick of agnosticism and the fact that there are no answers, I need a haircut and I need a cheque to be deposited into my bank account, I can't comprehend advanced relativity and I hate to think it's all going to end up as entropy.
It's not that I'm going to kill myself. It's just not worth it. Too much of an effort, getting it all sorted out and making sure nobody suffers from my death. But there's a great cricket match tomorrow and I owe a friend 6 NIS. Not that I have much money myself.
I won't kill myself because that's going to be just more painful. But I find my current life tasteless, bland, colourless, a little too strained, having a few minor problems (that I listed earlier), and I can't get a hug from anyone that I'd like to get a hug 'cause they're not around. And virtual ones don't count.
I stopped laughing at jokes, I don't even like the Soviet ones, I don't get more than six hours of sleep and if I'll keep writing this thread nothing will change. It's not that anything's desperately wring, it's just that nothing is desperately right.
I'm not even suicidal, I'm too depressed and uninterested to do that.
And I keep thinking that the word "amewsome" exists, but it's only "awesome"; but that's funny, because I knew of the word "awesome" before.
The question is: "what for? Why?” I have nothing to hang on to now. I don't see any beauty of life when temperatures are so high. All I can do is scorch myself, which makes it no better.
Boring old me.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Jonathan, in all seriousness, have you considered talking to a doctor about whether anti-depressants would be worth trying?
About the German trope... is that for Torah or Haftara? And why davka the German trope? It's pretty, but what's the urgency?
You need to find something that interests and excites you. Something new, maybe.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Psychologists? Doubt it. I don't know if they can get my span of complete blandness. And every time I spoke to any psyco-anything, I always got the same general answers. And it doesn't really matter what I talk to them about.
I'm talking mainly about Haftara cantillation, but Torah I ought to learn in the German tune too. I simply know the Polish one already.
But nothing seems to excite me. In any field. That's the problem.
But thanks.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
As for anti-depressants, I don't believe in medical curing or pills or whatever for a bore-ignorance cure. It's only hit me seriously in these past days.
Maybe it's The Catcher in the Rye?
EDIT: Off to bed.
[ September 07, 2005, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Jon, here's a serious suggestion: take up a sport. An outdoor activity. Something you do with other people that doesn't involve trying to teach them something.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Jon, go do something that needs doing. Move. Best is if you attempt something you don't think you're quite capable of, or something you admire other people doing but have never tried yourself. Whatever you choose, it needs to be something where you move physically. Reading a book, programming, IM'ing don't count. I think it also helps if it has some point to it. Cooking something you've never made before counts. Planting something out in the yard or in a pot counts. Digging up weeds counts. Playing outside with the neighbor kids counts. Reorganizing your closet counts.
I'm not much for medical intervention either, but when life seems blah, and nothing helps, it can be an alternative. Try something physical first though.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Have you considered befriending a kid? I'm sure there's plenty of kids in your neighborhood who would love to have a teenager pay attention to them, join them in a game or two of football, help them with their homework, teach them how to throw a ball, whatever. It always worked for me when I was your age. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I don't know about Hebrew, but assonance in English is when several words in a row have the same main vowel sound. Like "hoopy frood." I'm a bit kerfuzzled because, if I understand right, there are no written vowel sounds in Hebrew. Right?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
There are written vowel sounds in modern Hebrew. They're little dots that go over the letters, IIRC.
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
"take up a sport. An outdoor activity."
I seriously second this. But if you're going to do a school sport, make sure you're close with the coach first, because if you don't get a chance to play, life gets even more depressing. I suggest finding a bunch of friends and playing a game of basketball or soccer with them after school each day.
"I couldn't ask a girl out if my life depended on it, I don't know the way to talk on a date"
Do you have any close friends that are girls? If not, just find a girl and talk with her for a while. One day, just say, hey I really want to see this movie you want to come with me? Make it sound like it's no big deal. Make a routine of asking her to go places with you when you're bored. Eventually, you'll become pretty close with her. Even if you're not attracted to her and you know she's not the one you want to marry, at least you'll have some fun growing up.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Yeah. Everyone's bad at dating when they're new at it. You get better by having a lot of awkward experiences and learning how not to have awkward experiences. I can't say I ever got dating down, but I did meet Jon Boy, so I guess I knew enough.
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
Oh yeah, one more thing, convince yourself that you have no chance with the girl anyways, so it doesn't matter if you embarrass yourself. Trust me, it works. I've gone on a few dates with the most attractive girl I've ever seen in my life by using that method. Just talk to her and think that it doesn't matter if you embarrass yourself because you never had a chance with her to begin with.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Let's go drinking buddy. My treat. I know depression well. I try being romantic about it when I find the energy.
*virtual hugs anyway* ((JH))
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Haikus are 5-7-5 syllabels!! Don't kill yourself!! Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Take up a sport.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: There are written vowel sounds in modern Hebrew. They're little dots that go over the letters, IIRC.
Under. The things that go over the letters (only in some texts, like Torahs) are cantillation marks.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Under, not over.
It's been a long time since I read Hebrew. Listen to Rivka. Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Jonny, what is it you would do BEFORE I met you at Aroma? BEFORE Noah came to Israel? BEFORE Annie and Hobbes left?
Maybe this is a sign you've had a little too much Hatrack. Remember your RL friends as well. Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
The only sport I really love is cricket. I'm in ideal physical shape, but I'm no sports' fan. If I could get myself another 13 people who'd be willing to play, and we had somewhere to play, it could be useful.
But no-one builds giant stadii for nothing here. I'd be willing to get back into good sporting shape in order to truly play the one game I love. But all the rest I've tried and they just get on my nerves after a while when everyone starts screaming.
I'd love to be trained, but also have another eleven fielders so I don't have to run back 70 metres every time I want to retun the ball. I know one person who wouldn't mind playing with me, but that's it.
Also, I'm definitely able to speak to teenagers of the female sex, but I'd never be able to take them on a date. "Be natural" got me far, but never in the 1-on-1 a-platonic relationship arena.
I just suck. And what I'd love to do i not in this country. I'd love to be in a student exchange programme and go to either England (where I now have no family) or Australia (where I now have a lot of family).
I don't have to be the best in everything (though that would be nice), but I'm currently losing my grip on it all. I don't even want to go to school in 45 minutes. But I still am. And I'll spend my day there, until 4:30 this afternoon, then I'll watch the cricket until the end of day's play, go eat something, watch a TV show, perhaps, or order myself a locker (FINALLY), then go to bed aftr hours of Hatrack or a game, and wake up tomorrow and watch the cricket again, have a weekend, and go back to school which I like less and less - missing the most important part of the game. And the thing about school is - nobody there gives a damn about it.
I'm starting my fourth year in isolation from feminine characters in my school, and I meet them only once a week in the gifted school. But now I'm entering 10th grade with maybe half a grade. And it's not even a wide social span, because everyone there has an IQ of roughly 130.
Call THAT normal.
I'd be willing to get back into shape and be consistent with it if I could play the game I like. NOBODY starts playing cricket at 18, everyone does it for school, and my mother would be happy I'm back in healthy shape (mind you, my blood tests were flawless and my figure is great for sports).
But that's a dream. And it won't come true. I've got the army I need to elude in three years' time, and I've got to be able to support myself overseas without a safety net of my parents' place. The way it's going - it sounds to me like I'll perish rapidly 'cause it's impossible to find a job without superb education and I'll never make a million pounds a year off cricket.
Oh, one last thing - my parents can barely afford paying my school (a VERY expensive one), so I'm supposed to get today a scholarship application form; how the bugger will I be able to pay a good university so I don't end up a fool?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
kq - there are some cantillation that go under, and some vowels which go over the letters. It all depends.
Raia - then I had other things I hung on to.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
It's ok to hang onto friends. Just remember that your whole life doesn't have to be Hatrack!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
JH, you're right, I oversimplified. And I know very little about cantillation marks. But I can only think of ONE vowel that goes over (and one that goes half-way up). The others all go under, neh?
*goes thru list* patach, kamatz, segol, chirik, tzeirei, kubutz (is that what the three-in-a-diagonal is called?), cholom
Did I leave any out?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
No, you didn't miss but remember that Kamatz, Chirik and Cholam have two types each.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*blink* I know about chirik malei and chaser, as well as cholom. But what is the second type of kamatz? Do you mean kubutz?
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Change - that's both the answer to your problems and the reason why you need to live. Life would not be very worthwhile if you had everything you wanted, and only sat around enjoying it all the time. The above might sound good, but dreams and passion only exist because of the difficulties in achieving those dreams and passions - in struggling against those difficulties you define what you care about, and create meaning. It is your responsibility to create meaning, so this universe is valuable, so you must live, and in living change over time to pursue that which you most desire. Take a step towards asking out that girl you have your eye on. Start playing cricket even if you stink. Do things that nobody does, or things that might not succeed. If you fail, you've lived. If you succeed, you've lived. The only way it is not pointless is if you don't try, don't change, and sit unhappy with the status quo, because that is not living. You may not be able to write a novel, but you can at least be a novel.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Rivka - Kamatz Katan.
Tresopax - thank you. All due respect to the rest of hatrack, this was he most meaningful answer I got. Thank you.
Now I have to find a way to play cricket and write. I can try the Janglo Yahoo! Group...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And yes, I know what kind of site that is. Their vowel chart is useful anyway. Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Off to school. Bye!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hope your day goes well. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: I can try the Janglo Yahoo! Group...
No! No! No! Not online. Offline! Offline! Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Exactly!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
What's that?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Where do I gather another 13 people? A Jerusalem-Anglo community.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Is there anything you always wanted to do but never had the time, will, etc. to do it? Well, this looks like a good moment to start! Maybe (and this will come as a shock ) take up a new sport? I've always loved watching tennis on TV, and this summer I started playing a little. Surprise, I'm not that bad at it! AND I enjoy it! I'm 24, so don't give me stuff like "it's too late to learn". You never know what you like unless you try. I'd say go for badminton, but I'm not sure you have the facilities for it. I like it much more than tennis, but it might be because I played it longer.
What about running? It always makes you feel better; try to find someone that has roughly the same rhythm as you so you'll be able to talk and not get bored. You'll feel wonderful afterward! "Mens sana in corpore sano" isn't a joke, you know!
Oh, and forget "dating"! If it's too stressful for you right now, maybe you should calm down a little and just be friends with the girls around you. Sometimes it *does* happen when you least expect it. (Or you can go the other way, admit you're bad and not bother about it, just go ahead and get your @ss kicked! )
You hated "Catcher in the Rye"? Well, go read something else! The fact that it's a "good" book shouldn't bother you. You like what you like and that's it. Do you get a bad grade in life if you don't like it? Nope.
Come on. Take some deep breaths and start living again! I tell you, despite all the crap that happened, happens and will happen to you, it's worth it! Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You could always do something else, you know. You don't have to limit yourself to large team sports. Or, heck, you could play a sport you don't like as much.
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
quote:I believe that we form our own lives, that we create our own reality, and that everything works out for the best. I know I drive some people crazy with what seems to be ridiculous optimism, but it has always worked out for me.
I believe in taking a positive attitude toward the world, toward people, and toward my work. I think I'm here for a purpose. I think it's likely that we all are, but I'm only sure about myself. I try to tune myself in to whatever it is that I'm supposed to be, and I try to think of myself as a part of all of us - all mankind and all life. I find it's not easy to keep these lofty thoughts in mind as the day goes by, but it certainly helps me a great deal to start out this way.
-Jim Henson Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: JH, you're right, I oversimplified. And I know very little about cantillation marks. But I can only think of ONE vowel that goes over (and one that goes half-way up). The others all go under, neh?
*goes thru list* patach, kamatz, segol, chirik, tzeirei, kubutz (is that what the three-in-a-diagonal is called?), cholom
Did I leave any out?
Shuruk. That's the vav with a dot in the middle. And there's a shva (na and nach <grin>), and chataf kamatz, chataf patach, and chataf segol, and chirik has malei and chasser, and so does cholom. And kamatz katan, though someone on another list is trying to convince me (unsuccessfully) that it doesn't really exist.
Oh, right. That's another reason I love the Rinat Yisrael siddur and machzorim. They make kamatz katan visibly different than a regular kamatz.
And yes, kubutz is the three in a diagonal one.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Wow. You know, until I found Hatrack, I had no idea that it was possible to be a Hebrew nerd. Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
To answer the question posed in the thread title, I draw on Jerry Seinfeld:
"Cause living is good, and dying....not as good."
Of course, he sings it.
My actual recommendation to JH is to learn an instrument. Playing guitar kills a lot of time for me, and living in a place where I don't know a lot of people, I have a lot of time to kill.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Corwin: there are two sports playable in Israel. That's it. Tennis? Yeah, go find someone and somewhere to play. I'm not a long-distance runner, I'm a sprinter. I hate TCIT although it's a book I'm glad I read. I always am friends with girls, but it'll stay like that forever. I'm the "nice guy".
Tom, if I ever play a sport I don't like as much, I'll never get the motivation to lose weight (not that I'm overweight or anything), start getting my body back in shape and be active as I used to. It's just never going to happen, and I'm as stubborn as I was told Tauri are.
Lisa:
Shva'im are not vowels, nor are the chatafim that derive from them do not count either as vowels. Chirik is only one, as the matre lectionis that follows is just to marrk a lengthening, like the two types of tzere and cholam - not different vowels.
And the same with Koren's siddurim, the Kamatz Katan is marked a little longer. And Rinat Yisrael's cantillation sucks. It's hard to read, and the text is not know n to be any better than Koren's.
I found one point in which Aramaic voweling was written wrongly in Koren and ArtScroll but is right in Rinat Yisrael.
JH
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Tom, if I ever play a sport I don't like as much, I'll never get the motivation to lose weight (not that I'm overweight or anything), start getting my body back in shape and be active as I used to.
That's not why you'd be playing this sport. You'd be playing this sport to get outside and meet people. Heck, get yourself a bouncy red ball and try to get people together for dodgeball if you have to.
The point, Jon, is to have some part of your life which doesn't exist in or rely exclusively on your mind.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I'm partial to 4-square, myself. Old school, or with crazy rules... But dribbling and teap-parties and around-the-worlds are lame.
-Bok
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
A bouncy red ball is perfect for cricket. Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
JH. I'm certainly worried about you. It is hard for me to read whether you are sincere or trying to be dramatic. But your post is a call for help. I'm not sure that you are asking for help in the right place, though. We are an online community, and you probably spend too much time online as it is. You've had bad experiences with counselors, and that may be because of a certain supercilious bravado that you project, I guess to cover for some insecurities. That's your persona, but it may also be contributing to your feelings of isolation. My advice, play a sport only if it is to be one of the gang, not to make yourself more perfect. Or seek out someone for "Mentchlikeit Lessons", that is, ask someone who is a mentch if they could give you some pointers on being one. And take mentchlikeit to heart -- there is no greater guy than the one who is a real mentch.
Lemme tell you about my terrific husband. He is very bright -- PhD in mathmatics, Valedictorian of every class he's ever been in, holds his co-workers in awe with his brilliance. I know, because they tell me. He does the Sunday New York Times Crossword not in pencil, not in ink, but mentally. But, he never brags, never shows off, never is impatient with people who aren't as smart, he is humble, he is considerate, never wants to cause people hurt or embarrassment. A genuine mentch. And that's why people like him, not because of his brilliant mind.
If, when we first met, I found him to be pedantic, supercilious, and arrogant, I would have wanted to have nothing to do with him.
And about the SSRI's (antidepressants), I'm not sure why you are so opposed to them. If your neurochemical makeup is imbalanced in a way that makes you prone to depression, what is the problem with taking medication to correct that? Would you tell a diabetic to avoid insulin because they should be able to correct their own body chemistry, or else just deal with it? Depression can be as deadly as diabetes.
You need more sleep. Make it a goal to get more.
Avoid "Catcher in the Rye"; it has messed up many a mind. I hear that it is the favorite book among serial killers. It certainly reinforces feelings of isolation. Steer towards something a little more wholesome, perhaps by some Mormon author.
I am worried about you. I suggest that you seek help closer to home.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
There are large groups of hispanics that gather and play cricket in parks in North Dallas... I'm not sure how they got introduced to it, but it's the big thing there.
Perhaps you could start something? Finding 13 people is a lot easier if, as Raia suggests, you spend a little more time in real life and less on hatrack Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Thank you Tante. I have little to reply, but that we were forced to read the Salinger book for school. I had no problem with Lord of the Flies, but I found the Catcher in the Rye very disturbing. Perhaps because I'm a teenager, and not a 30 year-old.
I don't want to start taking pills. It makes me dependent upon them to maintain a certain level of optimistic consciousness. If there is a problem, it needs be solved, not suppressed chemically.
The thing is, it's not that I'm isolated or not popular. On the contrary, the combination of success academically and my social connection with almost everyone doesn't do anything except occasionally make someone call me a "nerd" playfully.
I don't know about psychoanalysis yet. I don't even have a specific problem I can go to them with, and neither my family nor my other acquaintances have noticed anything weird about me yet. I'm not particularly moody or agitated, nor phased out or heavy-hearted. I'm just mildly fluctuating like any other person at any other age. It's not yet been affecting my behaviour externally, maybe just inside.
For all I know, it might be over in a few days; and this is the first time it happened to me with significant effect making me post a thread about it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: The thing is, it's not that I'm isolated or not popular. On the contrary, the combination of success academically and my social connection with almost everyone doesn't do anything except occasionally make someone call me a "nerd" playfully.
Jon, you may be in a bit of denial here.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Denial? Perhaps. But I've got many friends of all types. I wasn't bullied for years or been a social victim for ages. So how come denial?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Wow. You know, until I found Hatrack, I had no idea that it was possible to be a Hebrew nerd.
<grin> Live and learn. I think you can be a nerd in just about anything.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If you have many friends of all types, why would you not want any of them to hug you?
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
quote: I don't want to start taking pills. It makes me dependent upon them to maintain a certain level of optimistic consciousness. If there is a problem, it needs be solved, not suppressed chemically.
What makes you think that you will become dependent, or that antidepressants will just suppress your problems? If you do have a chemical imbalance in your brain that won't go away otherwise, what then?
I agree with everyone who has said to go out and do something. Try a new sport, or activity. You mentioned that you're not really doing Aikido anymore because your teacher isn't around. Well, go out and find another one, even if it's not the same branch of Aikido. Or pick up another martial art. Draw, or write, or go for walks, or learn to play an instrument. Gifted people do sometimes have a tendency to get bored, so pick up a new activity that you're not good at. That way, you'll be able to work toward something.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I agree with everyone here- find something new and interesting. kq had a great idea- is there a "Big Brothers" type program in Israel?
((((JH))))
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Big Brothers? I don't really know if it counts but I spend a lot of time with a 10 year old kid from my synagogue during Saturdays. He's the son of one of those in charge of the synagogue.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Currently, I'm taking Tante's advice. Good night everybody, and thanks for all the advice. I was parallel to suicidal that night, and the following morning, at school, my good friend was just as mournful (it was his birthday) because his great aunt died the day before.
Ain't it lovely? He's also the son of our English teacher, so the whole lesson went about queerly. I feel bad for whinging...
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Jonathan, it's another day, and I'm still thinking about you. How are you doing? What are your plans? The adolescent angst is difficult -- I had a rough case of it myself for a while -- but you are going to have to learn coping mechanisms.
Please give us an update.
Your Tante, Esther
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Yeah, I've been thinking of you too.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Hello Hatrackers, I'm pretty new here ... greatly impressed and all. I didn't plan on posting until I got a bit more acclamated, but Jonathan Howard ... I know exactly how you feel. Or at least from your description of it. I'm also a teenager, have a degree of intelligence, have a semblance of popularity and constantly find myself bored, frustrated, and otherwise sick of everything. The pointlessness of everything. I don't really have much advice. I still struggle with it quite often. But you're not alone in your feelings.
And if I may, I would recommend travelling. By yourself. Sort of going along with the whole "change" thing. Maybe you're not in a posistion to travel anywhere far. It doesn't matter. Just go somewhere. And don't take anything that links you to your current pointless life. Last time it got really bad for me I got my kayak and took a 100 mile trip down a river. Almost got in a fight with a 13-foot alligator (he got skerred ) and missed a bunch of school and church, but then at the point I was at, I wasn't planning on going to school or church anyways. Anyways, it helped me. I don't know why, I don't know how, but I came back ready to face the world. So I guess thats my bit of advice. Though now I do feel I should say, if you happen to meet up with a 13 foot alligator, don't fight it ... that is pointless. I hope everything works out for you. If you need a fellow bemoaner of the pointlessness of life, feel free to contact me.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
JH -
I think you need to find your Mode. Everyone has a mode of release, something they use to vent and get back to zero. For some people it is sports, for some it is travel, or music, or school, literature, anything. For a long time, mine was SI, which I don't recommend in the slightest, but now it is writing, which calms me down, cools me off, and gets my mind working in productive healthy ways.
More specifically my advice would be to try everything again. Everyone on here has given great suggestions, try them all, and if none of them work, come back for more. You won't know your Mode until you find it, and you can't find it until you try everything. That should be all the motivation you need.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
It's now just after Sabbath, and it's getting a little better. I'm missing school tomorrow (there's a trip to reconstruct the settlers' farms and hothouses etc. - my father is sternly and politically opposed to me going there, though I'd be keen to help), and this Saturday was actually very pleasant.
If any of you remember the little thesis I wrote, I can only say that two of the most important people I know (and probably the most intelligent to, they're smarter than you lot, I reckon) very much wanted to read it - so I sent it to them. A third read it this Friday and was impressed by it, so at least that was something productive.
I had a nice time at the synagogue, and another interesting thing happened: registration to it [the synagogue] next year will be this Wednesday, and I was told to come a while before the official time of registering starts. The synagogue wants to ensure I have a safe seat that isn't bein grabbed beforehand. They're not supposed to be biased and help certain people get seats, but I am getting one for certain.
So I realised that in the past 6 months I prayed there (and not consistently) I have gained a lot of power in the community, and poise.
I finally came to realise this is a trait that I seem to have. On my Bar-Mitzva the person I chose to make the dedication of the present to me stated that in a very short time I managed to gain a lot of poise, until that climactic day. I'm also well-poised in my current congregation, in school, here, and most importantly - in the gifted school. I was asked to make a speech at the end of last year, unanimously, on the spot.
I've got to use that trait to get back on track. I've read some books, I've watched some sport, I'm feeling good. I've cleared my mind, I've played with friends, I've understood: it's a matter of my will to get back and start doing something useful - maybe it's because I've listened to less music lately?
So it's very simple: stick a Bach disc in to the stereo system, and play it.
Done.
Now it's time that'll tell.
And thanks a million to you all, particularly Tresopax, Tom, Esther, Amy, Dr Strangelove and Lyrhawn.
Jonathan
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I think you need to find your Mode. Everyone has a mode of release, something they use to vent and get back to zero ... For a long time, mine was SI...
Sports Illustrated? Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
No Tante, something else. But I don't want to hijack JH's thread by talking about it.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
(((Lyrhawn)))
I'm glad you were able to find another form of release, and I hope JH is well on his way to one as well.
I second the good Dr.'s advice, sort of -- going somewhere helps me a lot, even if it's just around the block a bunch of times. It's the sensation of movement as much as distance traveled that makes a good metaphor to cling to for putting things behind you.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: No Tante, something else.
I google searched...Smithsonian Institute? Systeme Internationale of weights and measures?
Oh wait...
Oh!
Yeah, I'm glad you found a better way, too.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Morning, all, I'm curretly living for the sake of living. I'm still a little downcast, though.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Good morning. Keep on living. Hope your outlook gets more palatable.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I hope you find an answer that works for you, Jonathon.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: I don't want to start taking pills. It makes me dependent upon them to maintain a certain level of optimistic consciousness. If there is a problem, it needs be solved, not suppressed chemically.
Don't knock pills. If they made one to cure excessive run-on sentences like in your first post, you could use a maximum dose.
Get some physically activity, of any kind. Don't use the cricket excuse, please.
You're a very bright kid, Jonny. Many bright kids get bored at your age. I did, my brother did, it's very common. Either find something new, in school or out, to focus your attention on, or become a real expert on something you already have interests in.
It's quite possible to support yourself without a college degree, or while you're planning to get one. Billions do.
Lastly, depression and malaise are not rational...don't expect to beat it with purely rational means. Buck up, laddy, I hope you feel better! Email if you want. Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I suppose it's a little late for this, since you seem to be feeling better, but here's my two cents anyway: Everyone's right about your needing to get out there and do something new; but if you're bored and depressed, the best thing you can possibly do is to do something for someone else. Find somewhere you can volunteer--working with underprivileged children is mighty rewarding, for instance--and spend some time with people less fortunate than you.
Good luck.
Jen
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I would certainly recommend some kind of therapy.
Considering that you aren't suicidal, anti-depressants don't seem necessary. If anything you'll feel terrible the first few weeks you're on them and its a high risk that the medication could cause you to develop suicidal feelings.
I was in a similar state of mind last year. I agree that blandness and boredom can be the greatest curse of all. I became inactive physically, mentally, spiritually. I felt like I was in a hole that I could never climb out of so I instead focused on never digging it any deeper.
After a year of therapy and a summer of personal reflection, I've come to see how my negative thought processess were impeding on my life. I never celebrated my sucesses but obsessed over my failure. I was afraid of being unloved without seeing that I lacked any kind of self-esteem.
In therapy, I had a qualified specialist who was able to recognize negative patterns in my thoughts and speech that I had never noticed before. Now that I'm able to see these negative influences myself, I can work on changing them.
In the last month especially, my entire perspective has changed. The bland, cold, bored person I was before is gone. I exercise more, getter better sleep, eat better, make more friends, allow myself to feel proud and confident, and my creativity is blossoming again after a year of not writing.
If you're in a stagnant place, its gonna take someone else to get the first waves of change going. Go find someone who'll listen to you and make suggestions. If the first therapist doesn't work, find another until you're comfortable.
Posted by MoralDK (Member # 8395) on :
It was getting a little crowded in Heaven, so God decided to change the admittance policy. The new law was that, in order to get into Heaven, you had to have a really bad day the day you died. The policy would go into effect at noon the following day.
So the next day at 12:01 the first person came to the gates of Heaven. The angel at the gate, remembering about the new law, promptly asked the man, "Before I can let you in, I need you to tell me about he day you died."
"No problem.", said the man. "Well, for some time now, I've thought my wife was having an affair. I believed that each day on her lunch hour, she'd bring her lover home to our 25th floor apartment and have sex with him. So today I was going to come home and catch them. Well, I got there and busted in and immediately began searching for this guy. My wife was half naked and yelling at me as I searched the entire apartment. But, darn it, I couldn't find him! Just as I was about to give up, I happened to glance out onto the balcony and noticed that there was a man hanging off the edge by his fingertips! The nerve of that guy to think he could hide from me! Well I ran out there and promptly stomped on his fingers until he fell to the ground. But, wouldn't you know it, he landed in some bushes that broke his fall, and he didn't die. This ticked me off even more so in a rage I went back inside to get the first thing I could get my hands on to throw at him. And oddly enough,the first thing I could grab was the refrigerator. I unplugged it, pushed it out onto the balcony and heaved it over the side. It plummeted 25 stories and crushed him! The excitement of the moment was so great that right after that I had a heart attack and died almost instantly."
The angel sat back and thought for a moment. Technically, the guy did have a bad day, and it WAS a crime of passion, so he announced, "OK, sir. Welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven.", and let him in.
A few seconds later the next guy came up. "OK. Here's the rule. Before I can let you in, I need to hear about the day you died." "Sure thing.", the man replied. "But you're not gonna believe this. I was out on the balcony of my 26th floor apartment doing my daily excersises when I got a little carried away and accidentally fell over the side! Luckily however, I was able to catch myself by my fingertips on the balcony directly beneath mine. When all of a sudden this crazy man comes running out of his apartment and starts cussing and stomping on my fingers! Well of course I fell. I hit some trees and bushes on the way down which broke my fall so didn't die right away. As I'm laying there face up on the ground, unable to move and in excruciating pain, I see the man push his refrigerator, of all things, over the ledge and it falls directly on top of me and kills me!"
The angel is quietly laughing to himself as the man finishes his story. "I could get used to this new policy.", he thinks to himself. "Very well.", the angel announces. "Welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven", and he lets the man enter.
A few seconds later the third man in line comes up to the gate. "Tell me about the day you died.", said the angel. "OK. Picture this.", says the man. "I'm naked inside a refrigerator..."
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Umm... Alright. :S
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
So, Jon, how are you doing, what are you doing, and what is your plan?
Inquiring minds want to know.
And I care, too.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Have you heard of cognitive therapy? I have a freind who says it totally changed her life.
I think you're getting great advice in this thread, Jonathan.
I have to say that this quote is not accurate medical information, though. Not that I think you need medications, because I don't think you do.
quote:Considering that you aren't suicidal, anti-depressants don't seem necessary. If anything you'll feel terrible the first few weeks you're on them and its a high risk that the medication could cause you to develop suicidal feelings.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Studies have shown that some popular anti-depressants can cause patients to develop suicidal thoughts. My physician said it was a matter of the medication working well enough to get a patient active where before they might have been too depressed to take any suicidal action.
I was on anti-depressants for awhile for anxiety and after a few weeks, I took myself off them. The medication made me jittery, I wasn't able to sleep, my stomach couldn't keep food down, I would get dizzy and my panic attacks actually increased. At a time when I was struggling with a difficult semester of college, the meds tuned me out to the world. Experts told me that the meds would take awhile to balance in my system but for me, the side-effects were too much for what had only a slim chance of helping me.
Either way, people on medication should have a therapist/counselor monitoring their behavior and thoughts because these medications are affecting the brain. If that's the case, it seems more valuable to try therapy alone at first before turning to dangerous and unpleasant medications.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
Something is effecting his brain... Maybe a good joke book would help him in his oh so sad existence. [/sarcasm]
Edit: to protect the innocent.
[ September 13, 2005, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: J T Stryker ]
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Getting far, far worse now for other issues. I'm basically devastated; I'm not killing myself yet, though.
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions for everyone else, Shanna, just because your experience wasn't good. Luckily, everyone isn't just like you. The risks are much lower than you've mentioned, and the goal of finding the right drug is to find one WITHOUT unpleasant side effects. Assuming a drug is needed.
((Jonathan))
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
"Assuming a drug is needed."
Exactly! I didn't need medication and I regret being convinced to try them so early in my treatment. I don't think anti-depressants are bad because I've seen the positive effects they had on some people. I've also seen alot of people who were puts on meds by prescription-happy parents and doctors. Anti-depressants change the chemical makeup of the brain. Its not a matter that should be taken lightly and I warn against any doctor who doesn't suggest alternative methods first. Medication should be a last resort.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
(((Everyone))). Thank you.
Posted by Somnium (Member # 8482) on :
If anti depressents seem to not be helping you should talk to a doctor or someone abnout either trying welbutrin or the possibility of you being bipolar.
I feel the same way about not wanting to commit suicide, but just being bored and apathetic about life. Nothing seems to spark my interest enough
I started seeing a psychologist and a psychiatrist last may, and trust me, if you are not doing that, try to, and don't just try one. Try as many as it takes to find one who you LIKE as a person. Often I've found it hard to talk to my peers about these problems because unless you have actually gone through the same things, its hard to really be able to console you much, or be very understanding. They often try, but with only partial success.
Stick in there bud. I haven't found that thing that is the spark of my life yet, but now I think its out there somewhere.
Also, no most medications don't leaving last chemical changes to the brain, although if they mad you more depressed as they can with bi-polar people, that can leave me emotional scars. Whcih is why from my experience it is neccesary to get a solid diagnosis of your problem.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: Getting far, far worse now for other issues. I'm basically devastated; I'm not killing myself yet, though.
I'm sorry that you are in such a funk. And I'm concerned that it is deepening. You need to either formulate a plan for how you are going to deal with this, or if you are unable to, place yourself in the hands of someone who will.
I care, Jon, I really do, and you have me very concerned for you. This will sound like a complete "Duh" statement, but, you would be much happier if you weren't so depressed. It is not good to be depressed. It is not artsy or deep or romantic or profound. It is not the mark of genius or understanding or sensitivity. It is a correctable, serious medical condition. You deserve treatment.
While the attention that you get from posting this thread on Hatrack may be comforting, in the end, I doubt it will be all that helpful. Unless you take some of the good advice given here and find help.
Good luck.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
I don't know if the deep funk is connected, but it might have something to do with the other. Let's just say that it's something I am completely responsible for bringing on myself, and I feel guilty for it. I've been working on my depression, and I started getting better, until I got this landed over my head, at top priority.
Now, I hope to get over this, though it might tak months until it's compltely over, if it ever will be. And that's no thing that mdical stuff or psychologists can change. And if they can, it oughtn't be so.
Thank you for caring, Tante; I know that ketchupqueen at a time (far before your time here) was more perceptive about me - and only through what I write - than my parents were. They, theoretically, know me much better. You are no less perceptive about my behaviour.
For now, it's a matter of tim, it includes factors I haven't yet nailed down specifically, and until I do no therapist will help. Personally, I don't think that they're worth the money - I doubt they can do that much change that justifies the price. Even if they can, it's all obscure and uncertain.
The school councellors are for school-related topics. As long as the topic doesn't have any real effect upon your studies or your social situation, they can't really do much. They are only these nice guys that say "hi" to you in the hall and that's basically it.
Right now, it's again time that is the critical factor. But you have no idea how much you all mean to me. Heck, I came here with the problem before I even knew there was one for certain.
Thank you all. Every one of you.
Jonathan
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Youth is wasted on the young.
The trick to being happy... is to be happy.
All emotion is valid, there is plenty of stuff to feel legitimately angry, or sad, or depressed about. And all emotions are deeply associative with hormones.
The relationship between hormones and emotions and external worldy triggers is, of course, extremely complex. There is a temptation to understand that relationship as a causal one but I would urge you to think of it historically. Sometimes you get an adrenaline rush when someone says "BOO", sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get an adrenaline rush just anticipating that someone might say "Boo". Even as we learn how hormones work it doesn't necessarily answer why.
Having said all that, young man, I have to inform you that you are awash in hormones of every description right now. Some might be triggered by a mini-skirt, some just figure it is time. Part of what all this flood is doing is changing your brain itself, your last big growth spurt. It's quite amazing that you are sane at all.
Women experience these emotional floods on a regular basis and men do as well though not as significantly. We wake to essentially the same world everyday but sometimes we are angry at it, sometimes we love it to tears. Same world, different emtional reaction.
The reason sport is such a recurring remedy suggested for your ails is that adrenaline is a very powerful hormone and it can wash away the others. It is good advise.
But for a young man of your obvious intellect, I recommend gaining an academic understanding of the physiological changes you are undergoing. Intellect can master, at least to some extent, your emotional brain. Even if it is only to say to yourself, hmmm, I seem to be awash in depressing hormones right now, perhaps some adrenaline is in order.
None of this takes away from the valid intellectual thoughts that associate with emotions. Some stuff is depressing. But it is easy to get into a vicious biofeedback loop where you become addicted to the hormone. People aren't addicted to cocaine, they are addicted to the dopamine rush that cocaine causes. Adrenaline junkies are much more socially acceptable but still trapped.
The hormones will subside. Your intellect will prevail. Just relax. Be happy.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Thank you, orlox. I've never really thought it had too much to do with me being a teenager. According to my father's statement (and he teaches kids my age), I am not an average teenager in that I am not that affected by mood-swings to an uncontrollable state, not so narrow-minded and not obsessed with my hormones.
Sanity? I don't know. I don't know how sane I am, but being a teenager has to have at least something to do with it. I only became a little insane at teen age.
Being happy is the one thing I cannot ever take as guaranteed. One of the problems is that happiness is also addictive, and one can just slob-about until 18, not ever looking around. I could do that. What stops me is what I hope is vigilance, maybe too much of it and maybe that's what caused blandness. My main worry now is that I've acted like an insensitive, foolish, imbecilic, bastardly, wreched, damned idiot.
Also, regarding Tante's last post, my current state is my poorest in terms of my artistic form, profundity and any other deep romantic chasm.
EDIT: I'm currently having more emotional strain than I ever remember. The last time anything ever compared to this was last Hanukkah, if any of you remember. This time, I've inflicted upon myself som serious emotional damage. I actually want to become a vegetable.
But my stress and emotions are pathetically mild compared to others'. So mild, in fact, that I feel guilty of receiving any sympathy. I mean it.
[ September 14, 2005, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Just wanted to point out that therapy may help you nail down these "uncertain factors." If you don't know why you're in a funk, there's a good chance that your mind is deluding itself. Recognizing the source of your depression is the hardest part. Once you identify the reasons, it's mucher easier to heal. I wouldn't suggest taking too much trying to identify the problem for yourself. Don't waste time trying to fix an issue/problem that isn't the real cause of your emotional state.
There's a reason that the number one piece of advice for depressed persons is to seek help IMMEDIATELY. It can get tons worse if you don't act to change it.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
They don't know me, and even if I spend hours upon hours with them daily, they still wouldn't get to know me. I have a personality which - I am very proud to say - revolves around more than one topic. In fact, it revolves around enough isues that the connections between them are subtlr than a therapist could get.
I know myself better than anyone else, even if I'm a teenager. So why would I want to pay someone who can't possibly really dig in deep and tell me what's wrong with me? If I'm sick and an MD examines me I can trust him/her, because he/she knows my body better than me. But a therapist? All they ever gave me was morale. A tap on the shoulder from a friend today, saying "it'll be alright mate, I was very depressed a few months ago" did more than a smile from a therapist.
I'm not ranting against the profession, I'm just saying that since it's mostly a staistical analysis of many people that they try to apply as a general rule - therefore never quite managing to get it right.
Sure, I need to deal with the problem. But who ver said it's one? Whenever a problem arose, I could handle it or talk to my parents or friends and handling it through there. But these problems that I can't solve are problems of more sophisticated magnitude. And that is why I'm reluctant to go to a therapist until I know what's the problem. I doubt that they can find it, and I'm not blaming them: it's just that a personality is far too complex to analyse in a few sessions.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I'm just saying, if you know yourself so well...why are you having these problems? If you're the perfect unbiased judge of you, it shouldn't be hard to point out the problems and fix them.
And all people are complex.
I hope you identify the source of you funk and I wish you luck.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Jonathon, keeping you in thoughts in prayers.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
All people are complex, all people who have a problem can usually solve it assuming they've got self-control, and all people who can't or have a big, tangled problem who go to therapists spend a lot of money and many times barely get any better.
I'm having these problems because everyone has problems, and sometimes maybe a bunch of them combine or hit at the same time. I don't know the exact source, but who says that someone who can't know me has a personality could locate my problem? I sure couldn't locate his/hers.
But thanks, anyway. Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
quote:For now, it's a matter of tim, it includes factors I haven't yet nailed down specifically, and until I do no therapist will help.
and
quote:I know myself better than anyone else, even if I'm a teenager. So why would I want to pay someone who can't possibly really dig in deep and tell me what's wrong with me?
I think you're misunderstanding what a therapist's function is. A good therapist doesn't tell you what's wrong with yourself. Instead, they listen to what you have to say, and then ask you leading questions or share their own experiences to help you figure out what's going on. The best therapist I had merely listened to me and repeated back what I said, but in different words; this helped me to clarify what my issues were and what I still needed to work on.
quote:I know myself better than anyone else
And I know myself better than anyone else. In fact, my therapist thinks this is one of my strengths, and is impressed with how much work I've done towards understanding myself. That doesn't mean I don't find benefit from therapy. I do. Because sometimes I'm not even aware that I'm blocking myself until I get into session every week and start talking.
I've been reading this thread for a while, and I'm feeling a lot of resistence from you. Why are you resisting so much? What do you need from us? And I ask that honestly and compassionately. We're trying to help, but it feels like we're not saying the right things or you're not willing to listen. If it's the former, then can you maybe tell us what you need from us? If it's the latter, then I urge you to be more open. Don't dismiss our ideas out of hand. There's been a lot of good suggestions on this thread, and many of them could be very helpful. Yes, only you know what's right for you, but sometimes you may not realise that something is right for you until you give it a try or are exposed to it.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Jonny, you don't need to become a vegetable. Just because others are suffering doesn't mean that you can't as well, or that you "shouldn't," or anything like that. You're human too, and shouldn't cut yourself off from feeling normal human emotion.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Jon, I don't know what else to say. I'm here and I care.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
xnera said what I was going to - my experience with a therapist was very positive and you may be thinking it's supposed to be something other than it is.
Walking into a therapists' office (or worse, a psychiatrists office!) is one of the scariest things a person can do. But most of that fear is the unknown factor, or the fear that the mere act of going to one makes you something, or labels you. In other words, "If I go to a therapist or a psychiatrist it means I'm crazy."
Not it doesn't - it means you need help with a condition that they are trained to treat.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
) take up a new sport? I've always loved watching tennis on TV, and this summer I started playing a little. Surprise, I'm not that bad at it! AND I enjoy it! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)