I was supposed to go to the tailgate party, but I decided last minute not to go. This is unbelievable, I don't understand how this could happen?
Posted by Hmm216 (Member # 8403) on :
Use the second link.
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
That's horrible. I would have cancelled the game...
Was firing three shots in the air an appropriate response by the undercover agent for a tailgate party? That doesn't seem right to do in a place where it could promote a panic unless absolutely necessary.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
The first link mentions that another man was shot. According to his friend, he startled the cop by putting his hand on the undercover cops shoulder from behind.
Well here is what I think happened.
The undercover cop shoots into the air three times to distract a scuffle between some intoxicated revelers. One of the people in the area, possibly being intoxicated as well, has no idea that the man shooting in the air is a cop. He thinks its time to be a hero, and he tries to tackle/disarm the man with the gun. Or perhaps he just touches the cops shoulder like the story says. Anyway, the cop gets freaked, and shoots the man. Another cop sees an armed man shooting an unarmed man, and understandably shoots the armed man three times. Probably exactly as his training has taught him. He has no idea that the armed man is a cop.
The saddest part is perhaps that no one in the story really did anything that wasn't understandable.
If someone who is dressed in plain clothes takes out a gun and starts shooting it, I myself might try and disarm that man.
And I have no doubt that the plain clothes cop did everything he was supposed to.
I do think that perhaps the undercover cop made an error in judgement when he decided to shoot into the air. Without a clearly marked police uniform and a badge, people are going to treat you as a severe threat when discharging a fire-arm in public. You might be shouting that you are a police officer, but people won't just take your word for it. Of course, it wasn't an judgement error he deserved to die for, and its a sad situation all around.
Of course this is all based on my theory of what happened based on what I read in both stories. Will be interesting to see what other facts emerge.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote:UCF Police spokesman Sgt. Troy Williamson confirmed that another person was shot during the altercation, which occurred about an hour before the 6 p.m. game.
quote:Some witnesses reported seeing Jenkins fire into the air. Rusty McCormick, a recent UCF alumnus, said he had seen Jenkins shoot UCF student Mike Young, his former roommate.
"Mike Young just came to see what was going on, and he walked up on the back of an undercover cop," McCormick said, while stressing that "[Young] didn't know he was an undercover cop."
When Young put his hand on Jenkins' shoulder, Jenkins "just turned around and shot him," McCormick said.
Its odd that niether of the other links report that another individual was shot. I guess they are waiting until more details arrive?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Isn't firing into the air a very, very bad idea, especially in a situation where there are lots of people present? I mean, that bullet's going to come back down, and it's going to do it with the same velocity it had going up. I would think that cops would be trained not to do this.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It is not SOP, I have heard from many police...the bullets have to come down somewhere after all.
[ September 26, 2005, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
In Florida, it's illegal for the police to fire into the air. If they feel it's necessary to shoot, they are supposed to shoot to kill as I understand it - no warning shots and no shooting to wound.
From the articles I've read, the undercover cop was shot in the back. I'd like to know how that happened. Did the OPD officer not tell him to drop his gun or in any way identify himself before he shot.
There's a lot of conflicting reports right now. It's impossible to know exactly what happened.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
I do not think the undercover cop should have tried to handle the matter on his own. He was very much outnumbered and dealing with an intoxicated, possibly hostile crowd. Without waiting for backup, what was he expecting to do if the crowd got out of hand? He apparently had his gun in a position where it could be used, so was he actually expecting to shoot his way out of a problem?
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Well, apparently no one is reading the account at the link I sent (ODMP gets reports directly from the police department itself)
As he began to question them, the students became belligerent and a scuffle ensued. During the scuffle, Officer Jenkins' service weapon was discharged. The shots attracted the attention of a nearby Orlando police officer who immediately responded to the scene. The officer, unaware of Officer Jenkins' identity, fired three shots and mortally wounded him.
So, in their version, there were no "shost in the air" -- instead his weapon discharged during a shuffle.
I'm sure further investigation will show what really happened, one way or the other. It does seem highly, highly irregular that any officer would purposefully "shoot in the air". But that isn't to say that mistakes don't sometimes happen.
FG
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
Farmgirl, I thought maybe the author writing about the weapon discharging was deliberately trying not to describe who actually discharged the weapon. Or maybe they don't know yet so they didn't get specific.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
FG, I read the link you posted, but there were some things I didn't really like about it.
The Orlando police officer didn't see everything that happened, so where did this account come from? Is it any more reliable than the other accounts? It refers to shots being fired. I find it hard to believe it was accidentally fired multiple times. So it is possible he shot in the air first, or even worse, shot at people multiple times. I also get the impression that Jenkins only heard the shots and did not see it happen. If so, why did he automatically shoot at the undercover officer three times?
As you mentioned, further investigation will hopefully show what really happened. I just don't feel that police department report sheds any real light on the matter.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:(ODMP gets reports directly from the police department itself)
That doesn't make the information any more accurate. Remember the information the London police gave out after they killed the innocent man on the train? Almost every single detail they gave turned out to be false in the end.
The ODMP description never mentions that another man was shot, so I would think its the most incomplete source of what happened out of the three.
But we'll have to wait and see. There are a lot of unanswered questions right now.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
A side note: the bullets are *not* going to come down with the same velocity they went up due to air resistance, which is significant when talking about an item that weighs less than an ounce.
I'd bet they wouldn't come down any faster than a bb fired from a red rider-- not to say that they wouldn't hurt or even do damage, but that I'm certain they wouldn't cause severe harm if fired straight up into the air. Marble sized hail would be more dangerous.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Yes, well, I would agree to what all of you say -- we will have to wait and see what plays out.
And, unfortunately if you read ODMP very much...this is not the first officer-shot-officer incident this year. In fact, that type of thing happens much more often than it should.
The other most recent one was a training officer accidently shooting an officer-in-training while teaching weapon handling......
Very sad
Farmgirl
(in fact, if you go to the main ODMP page, and have them list deaths by this year, and then choose Gunfire-Accidental -- there are six. And five of those were shot by other officers accidentally)
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:I'm sure further investigation will show what really happened, one way or the other. It does seem highly, highly irregular that any officer would purposefully "shoot in the air". But that isn't to say that mistakes don't sometimes happen.
Yea, 'cause I've checked and I can say pretty confidently that police officers are in fact human.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Don't they wear a color of the day? Though, if he was really shot from behind, I suppose the uniformed cop never bothered to look for it, even though it seems like there was a lot of undercover work going on.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Kayla, if the first story is accurate, the undercover cop had just shot an unarmed man. He had also fired into the air, was surrounded by people, and still had his gun drawn.
If all that is true, of course the uniformed cop is going to shoot, and shoot to kill.
(Though of course we don't know if the first story is true)
Posted by Hmm216 (Member # 8403) on :
One of the major issues being discussed with this case is the lack of communication between the Orlando Police Department and The University of Central Florida Police Department.
According to the chief at the UCF Police Department, the OPD was aware of the undercover operation that was going on.
OPD says that they were never notified of any operation.
Posted by Hmm216 (Member # 8403) on :
I live less then a mile from UCF main campus. The UCF Police Department has had this undercover operation running for a while now. Durring these operations many of the local clubs and bars have been caught serving alcohol to underaged students and students have been caught drinking underaged. I seriously doubt that OPD was unaware of this, maybe Im wrong.
I guess we will find out after more investigations.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)