*There are no movie spoilers here, but there might be some series spoilers.*
I'm very interested in learning more about the Shepherd's origins.
Is he some kind of double agent? Was he also a "special" project of the Alliance like River?
Mal seems to trust him. Does Mal know something about the Sheperd that we don't?
More importantly, River trusts him. If Book were an Alliance agent, it is likely that River could sense it with her telepathic powers.
The Sheperd did not appear that frequently in the movie's trailers. That either means he has a fairly small role or that his story arc is suppose to be a huge surprise.
I apologize if this is already being discussed on another Firefly thread. But, come on, can there really be too many Firefly threads?
Feel free to add in your own speculations about the movie! Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Have you read the three Serenity comics?
Either way, I think Book will have very little screen time. I remember originally that getting him on the cast was hard to arrange because the actor was doing something else. If that something else is ongoing, maybe they'll even have to kill Book off in case they get to do a sequel. That would make me sad, I really like Book.
The trailers show nothing but action sequences and snappy one-liners, so I don't imagine they really convey the movie's substance. They do leave me wondering if there'll be more Jayne than most Firefly episodes, though. That'd be fine with me.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I'm ashamed to say I haven't read the Serenity comics. Yet.
Book is really not my favorite character, but I've always felt Joss had big plans for Book in later seasons.
I guess now we'll never know.
Even if we do get sequels, Joss has made it clear that there are differences between making a TV series and making a movie. He has hinted that many of the story ideas he had for the TV show will probably never be realized in the movie format.
Maybe it'll come out in comic book form.
quote:They do leave me wondering if there'll be more Jayne than most Firefly episodes, though. That'd be fine with me.
He he. Me too twinky. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I hope they don't kill off Book. Not only is he a likeable and interesting character, but removing him would leave a void in the character structure of the show. Someone would have to be added to fill that void.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I agree. Book adds something very important to the group- something to do with the fact that he is by far the eldest and that he is the only one who does not participate heavily in the crime.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I'm not much for comic books, but after reading the Serenity comics I would definitely read more if they go that way.
Added:
quote:...he is the only one who does not participate heavily in the crime.
Inara?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Hey, twinky, do you own the comics? If so would you bring them with you when you drive down on Friday?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Darn. I meant to add to that sentence after I realised that Inara and him are quite similar; the crime thing, the religious thing, the fact they are perhaps the two not wanted specifically for something. Book I think balances Inara nicely, provides someone for her to play the aforementioned qualities off of. Think of all the moments when we've really seen something in Inara's character- it's been in conversation with Book or coming up against Book.
I have class; I have to go, or I would write more!
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
"I don't give a hump if you are innocent. So where does that put you?"
With that sneer on his face. Wow... there's got to be something big going on with Book that we don't know about.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Hey, twinky, do you own the comics? If so would you bring them with you when you drive down on Friday?
I do, and I will be bringing them so that the passengers in my car can read them en route. I'm happy to give them to others to read as well.
I'd say that they bridge the gap nicely, but then I haven't seen the movie.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Cool! I'd love to borrow them if I don't have time to read them over the weekend.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
No problem. I don't expect I'll be in a hurry to read them again. Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
ITS A BOX IN A BOX! NEO DIES!
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Despite their appearance to the public, Shepherds are far far more than a religious organization. Think in terms of the Humanx non-sectarian UnitedChurch for a hard-nosed and not-particulary-religious approach to reality, and of the BeneGesserit for the cold-blooded behind-the-scenes political manipulativeness.
For shepherds are needed to protect the flock from wolves. And there are Wolves coming. Wolves, of which even the Alliance is unaware, and yet the Shepherds intimately know. And dangerous enough that the Shepherds in a certain sense encouraged both sides to the obstinacy which led to the CivilWar.
Cuz -- whether the disputes led to ColdWar, a stalemated war, or the victory of one side over the other -- belligerence leads to militarization. And the resulting newly-created militarized state* will be necessary when the Wolves finally take notice of the new prey in their hunting territory.
* Could have been 'states' depending on what type of war resulted from the hostility between the uncompromising sides.
[ September 28, 2005, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:ITS A BOX IN A BOX! NEO DIES!
Noooooo!
Dude, where were the spoiler warnings?
On an unrelated note, I have a general question about the Firefly universe: where exactly does it take place? The synopses of the movie and the series seem to vary a lot on this. Some say the solar system, some say another solar system, some say merely the universe, and I think some have said different galaxies. I always assumed it was sort of a Star Trek scale: our own terraformed and colonized little corner of the galaxy.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Aspectre, are you getting this information from the comics, from notes of Joss's that you've read (such as the book that has the script and lots of worldbuilding notes and so forth), or from your posterior?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I've wondered about that myself, Jon Boy. If I had to guess I'd say that it's a single solar system, but I could easily be wrong.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
What spoilers? That was pure speculation on my part about the way I would write the series. What JoshWhedon intends to do but I do know that he has considerably more success at writing plots than I do.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
That stuff is not in the comics.
Jon Boy, in Our Mrs. Reynolds, Mal says "There're more than 70 Earths spinning around the galaxy and the meek have inherited not a one." That suggests a Star Trek sort of thing to me.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
The comic says it's all in one solar system. Not our current one.
That means that all the action in the show has taken place on moons and planets in a single solar system, so that FTL travel isn't necessary.
I wonder which one it is.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: What spoilers? That was pure speculation on my part about the way I would write the series.
I meant rav's post—yours got in the way. But the way you posted that sure didn't sound like speculation. You seemed to present it as mere fact.
twinky: Thanks for the info. I definitely need to buy the DVDs and watch them again.
Edit: starLisa: Ah, that's interesting. I was always curious about what sort of FTL travel they used, but they never say. That really changes my perspective, though. I always imagined that they were in deep interstellar space a lot of the time.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I think Joss says on one of the featurettes that this is another solar system that me moved to after we burned out our original system. But I could be mistaken.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Would the location/situation of the system be a spoiler? I can answer it but don't want to violate thread restrictions.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
quote:Originally posted by Beren One Hand: *There are no movie spoilers here, but there might be some series spoilers.*
I'm very interested in learning more about the Shepherd's origins...
...Feel free to add in your own speculations...
Merely followed BerenOneHand's implied request that spoilers would be unwelcome, but speculation about where Firefly is heading was desired.
More speculation -- which is all that I will write in this thread -- it is no more coincidence that a Shepherd is on the ship which RiverTam boarded than it was just luck that Buffy had a Watcher.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:What spoilers? That was pure speculation on my part about the way I would write the series. What JoshWhedon intends to do but I do know that he has considerably more success at writing plots than I do.
Ah, okay. I thought your response had a certain...bouquet.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
It's an interesting idea, though. We've only seen the one shepherd so far. Maybe all of them are cryptic.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Yeah, even if it's travel between solar systems they'd have to be exceedingly close together, since I think it's clear that there's no FTL in the show. If it's one solar system, though, it must be enormous.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Good ideas aspectre. Please elaborate!
What are some of the things in the series that made you feel like the Shepherd is more than just an innocent religious figure? Off the top of my head:
-Book's ident card.
-Book visiting the monastery during the Ariel episode.
-Book volunteering to stay behind with River in Jayne's Town. Is the hair thing just a bad joke or will there be some significance to the fact that he looked like Albert Einstein?
-Book's knowledge of criminal schemes in Our Mrs. Reynolds.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
- Book's thoughts (memories? something else?) "heard" by River in "Objects in Space"
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Woo, good one Chris (nice article, btw).
I think Jubal also commented about Book not being a Shepherd in the same episode.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I don't buy the solar system idea, even if it was Joss' own conception. There are far too many planets and (apparantly) suns, unless it's an absolutely enormous and incredibly a-typical solar system, for it to work. Even if all the planets in a gigantic solar system (say forty or fifty planets, or more) were terraformed, only a small number of them would be at the distance from the sun that enables human life to survive as it does on every planet they visit... Many of these planets appear to be moons, which adds to the number consdierably, especially since some moons seem to be terraformed but practically uninhabited.
Added to that there are at least four planets (or moons) in the central core: Osiris, Sihnon, Ariel and Londinium.
As far as I can tell it seems that the Core is all focused on one Solar System, with perhaps a few outlying planets and that other, very close-by solar systems (although far enough to not be intersecting for obvious gravitational reasons) make up the rest of the alliance planets.
Here's Where I got the Information but some of it is from the comics so very minor spoilers. There is no actual mention of the plot from the comics, almost as if the person hasn't got around to putting in yet.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Early did indeed comment about that: "That's not a Shepherd."
Now that I'm home, the comics say:
quote:After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terra-formed and colonized. The central planets formed the Alliance and decided that all the planets had to join under their rule. There was some disagreement on that point. ...
I didn't read this preamble stuff (on the inside cover) when I read the comics, I just read the content. I don't particularly care about this stuff myself in any case. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Hundreds of new earths...?
Well, assuming some of those are moons. Assuming there's a double or triple sun and a complex gravitational system between them as well as these planets being very, very close to one another...
And even then, this system would not have a core. [EDIT: It's possible some of these planets (or even most) would orbit both suns, thus giving the solar system a clearly defined core but still!) Each planet would exist both inside and outside the system depending on the time of the year. Sometimes (during the summer) the planets would have suns on both sides (daylight all day long). During the winter there would be daylight for only half a day, like normal. Moons would have a really really odd day. Spring and Autumn on planets would be weird also, with two sunrises and two sunsets and a short night depending on where the planets were...
*head explodes*
It's either a cluster of solar systems or a Galaxy. It cannot be a single system unless the sun is totaly massive (and therefore unstable and short-lived) and the planets are all squished together in the small circle of terra-formable space.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
The fact that they "found a new solar system" doesn't necessarily mean that the "hundreds of new Earths" were all in this new solar system.
Added: And in any case, why does it matter? You can't suspend your disbelief? Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Sounds like a smallish galaxy to me.
Otherwise, how is there a fringe?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Fringe of humanity...it can exist anywhere epople do, but only at the edge they have expanded to up to that point. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:You can't suspend your disbelief?
Well, I hadn't given it another thought until people started asking questions in this thread. I just assume that they can travel quickly between systems and that they're close together!
It's only when someone brings it up that I have to at least work through it.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Most of the places they visited in the series were moons. I assumed the core was the inner planets.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I thought it was more a Foundation type universe. Central systems and planets, then the fringe/rim systems and planets.
Kwea, it's clear the center/fringe concepts has its basis in geography (is it called geography if it's more than one world?). Joss's said frequently that it's a repeat of the Old West. So it's the fringe of humanity in large part because it's the fringe of the solar system or galaxy (whichever).
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Well, they completely ignore relativistic effects of travel despite there being no FTL. Either the systems are all pretty close together or Joss just decided to forget about relativity. Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I bet Joss misses the old Angel days where he could conjure up portals all over the place and set up mystical centers of power conveniently close to Los Angeles without fans questioning his "logic." Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Alternate Universe. Different laws. Fair enough.
EDIT: Beren, that's what I meant by two or three suns. I couldn't remember the real term for it, but I certainly think that's the only way for it to work. My drawing was much simpler (me being a humble humanties student) but I see it working if it's a tremendouly large trinary star system.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I understood you perfectly Teshi. You expressed your idea very clearly (and I'm a poli-sci major).
I just wanted an excuse to link to that picture. (That person's geekdom makes mine look normal, almost.) Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky: Yeah, even if it's travel between solar systems they'd have to be exceedingly close together, since I think it's clear that there's no FTL in the show. If it's one solar system, though, it must be enormous.
Well, how many planets have we seen? Most of the places they've landed have been explicitly called "moons", no? And for all we know, they've put artificial moons in all the Lagrange points of all the planets in the system (within a belt of reasonable distance from the sun).
Though that would be some technological feat.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: I don't buy the solar system idea, even if it was Joss' own conception. There are far too many planets and (apparantly) suns, unless it's an absolutely enormous and incredibly a-typical solar system, for it to work. Even if all the planets in a gigantic solar system (say forty or fifty planets, or more) were terraformed, only a small number of them would be at the distance from the sun that enables human life to survive as it does on every planet they visit...
Some of the moons may be orbiting gas giants. Those can generate heat as well as a sun, even if not as much.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:For shepherds are needed to protect the flock from wolves. And there are Wolves coming. Wolves, of which even the Alliance is unaware, and yet the Shepherds intimately know.
I knew it! It's the Reavers! A massive Reaver invasion of the Core Worlds!
Or maybe it's Blue Sun... Blue Sun is about to take over the Government...
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
OH... and they say during the series that there are "70 Earth's"...70 colonized worlds.
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but I do know that he has considerably more success at writing plots than I do.
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