This is topic Definitive Covers in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
This is a little more specific than the remake thread. I'm thinking about songs which are originally recorded by another artist, but which are forever linked to another artist.

Cases where, when you name the song this is the version that comes to mind. List the definitive version, and the original artist. Feel free to protest if you disagree. My examples are:


I know it seems that James Taylor, Aretha, and Carole King dominate my choices, but these are just off the top of my head. I'll be back with more.
 
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
 
Red, Red Wine - UB40 (originally by Neil Diamond)
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Ooo, yeah. Good one.
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 

 
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Did Kris ever perform the song? I thought he wrote it for Janis to perform.

I'm a Believer - the Monkees (originally by Neil Diamond)
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
That would explain why I can't remember what his version sounds like. I'll look when I get home.

EDIT: From amazon.com's review, "Kris had his first own real big on-the-road hit with "Me and Bobby McGee," especially after it was covered by Cash, Janis Joplin and Roger Miller."
 
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
 
Walk This Way by Run DMC (originally by Aerosmith).
-- It moved Rap to the mainstream and resurrected Aerosmith's careers.

Hard to Handle by The Black Crowes (originally by Otis Redding)

Mrs. Robinson by The Lemonheads (originally Simon and Garfunkel).
-- Stupid band, but it's a great cover of a great song.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
I don't know Hard to Handle, but I really wouldn't call the other ones definitive versions of those songs by any means.
 
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
 
UB40's Red Red Wine was a cheap rip off of Bob Marley. Virtually identical, minus the soul.
 
Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
 
I'm sure this one is debatable, but GnR's version of McCartney's Live and Let Die.
 
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
"Green, Green Grass of Home," by Johnny Cash, but it was someone else's. (forget-must Google, too tired)
 
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
 
I hate to admit this, since I prefer the original version, but Ike and Tina's version of Proud Mary is much more well-known than the original Creedence version.

Quick story, while we're on the subject: When I was a DJ on a college radio station, my friend and I used to think up call-in contests to pass the time and screw with people. One day we announced that whoever could name the artist who performed the original version of a song would win a prize. Then we played Neil Diamond's original version of Red Red Wine from the '70s. We immediately got flooded with calls, and every single one of them guessed UB40. We laughed and laughed.
 
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
Can I nominate a song for worst cover ever?


Edit: GnR also did a pretty good job with Knockin' On Heaven's Door (originally by Bob Dylan).
 
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
"Everytime You Go Away" by Paul Young (Originally by Hall and Oates)

"You've Lost that Lovin' Feeling" by Hall and Oates (Originally by the Isley Brothers? Some Brothers. I can't remember which.)
 
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
 
It's the Righteous Brothers and I think the original is much more definitive than the Hall and Oates version (I'm not sure I've even heard their version).

As an aside, for those interested in covers, check out this podcast. . You can just download the mp3s from that link. You don't need any special podcasting software or anything.
 
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
 
quote:
Then we played Neil Diamond's original version of Red Red Wine from the '70s. We immediately got flooded with calls, and every single one of them guessed UB40. We laughed and laughed.
And nobody guessed Marley? That's sad.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dagonee:
Did Kris ever perform the song? I thought he wrote it for Janis to perform.

A friend of mine has a CD of Kris singing several songs he wrote for other people, including Bobby McGee. I'll have to see if I can borrow it from him.
 
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
quote:
It's the Righteous Brothers and I think the original is much more definitive than the Hall and Oates version (I'm not sure I've even heard their version).
I don't see how you can possibly not have heard this version. Were you alive during the eighties?
 
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
 
quote:
And nobody guessed Marley? That's sad.
Sad? That nobody guessed the wrong answer?

quote:
but Ike and Tina's version of Proud Mary is much more well-known than the original Creedence version.

What planet are you from?
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Killing Me Softly, by the Fugees,original by Roberta Flack

Not exactally a cover, but I really like I'll Be Missing You, but it isn't a cover because it has Sting sampling Every Breath You Take in the background with them singing/rapping over it. [Wink]
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Kwea, those were two that I thought of this morning, although the I'll Be Missing You I don't think would qualify.

I also thought of:

Wild Nights - John Mellencamp (by Van Morrison)
With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker (by the Beatles)
 
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Frisco:
[QB]
quote:
And nobody guessed Marley? That's sad.
Sad? That nobody guessed the wrong answer?
First of all, it was a trick question, because people were asked to name the "original" version of the original song. So what's a "wrong answer?"

But we're talking about definitive covers. UB40 did a cover of Marley's version, not their own version of Diamond's song. It was a cheap rip-off of a definitive cover, but no one was aware of how that cover came about in the first place. That's sad.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Hm. I don't think I've heard the Hall & Oates version of "You've Lost that Lovin' Feeling" either, Joe. The Righteous Brothers own that track.
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Yeah, I think Top Gun sewed that up for them.
 
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
 
Wild Nights - John Mellencamp (by Van Morrison)

It always bothers me that this song was a collaboration between Mellencamp and Me'Shell Ndegeocello, but nobody ever describes it that way. It was her bass line and the vocal duet that knocked everybody's socks off.
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
I agree, but I can't spell her last name without going to amazon to look her up, so I left her off.

It's her verse that I really love, and of course the bass line.
 
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
 
No no no... I think some are confusing a group doing a good cover with the cover actually outshining the original so much that it's vastly more popular--and not simply because nobody remembers the original. Some of this ya'll already said... but I'm going to say it anyway.

Walk This Way is clearly more associated with Aerosmith than Run DMC. Run DMC and Aerosmith did a neat duo video. That's all.

It might be a good cover, but Mrs. Robinson is definitely a Simon and Garfunkel song through and through. The Lemonheads, if I remember who they are correctly, just made it into a bubblegum pop song.

Guns and Roses did a great cover of Live and Let Die--but Paul McCartney's is THE version I think of when I hear the title.

I agree that the Righteous Brothers' version of You Lost that Loving Feeling is the definitive one, as well.

I do think that Guns and Roses totally took over Knockin' on Heaven's Door. But, I didn't even know it was a Dylan song.

The Fugees made a real nice cover of Killing Me Softly, but Roberta Flack still holds the definitive title. (I will admit that when I listen to Roberta Flack, I'm waiting for the singing improv the fugees do and the "one time" beat thing.)

I'll Be Missing You is a retarded remake of Every Breath You Take. They totally ignored the creepy stalking side of the song and made it fluffy. They suck. Whoever they are. And yeah... it was catchy... even had me singing along a little bit.

I can't think of my own example to add into the mix... so I declare that I suck for disagreeing with many but not offering anything of my own.

It's just that I think the original has to be virtually unknown or a lot less popular for the remake to achieve Definitive status.
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
quote:
The Fugees made a real nice cover of Killing Me Softly, but Roberta Flack still holds the definitive title. (I will admit that when I listen to Roberta Flack, I'm waiting for the singing improv the fugees do and the "one time" beat thing.)
I think the fact that you expect to hear Wyclef calling "One time!" tells you that the Fugees have the definitive version. I think it's just because it's a lot more recent than the Roberta Flack one. I personally love that one, but I don't think it was as popular, even in its time, as the Fugees version.
 
Posted by Dr. Evil (Member # 8095) on :
 
"You Really Got Me" Van Halen (original by The Kinks)
 
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
 
I guess I can't get over the memory of sitting in the car when I was a kid, listening to this song and my mom singing along...and wondering what in the world it was about...but loving it all the same. My mom had already told me by that time that Janis (sp?) Joplin had cut her face into ribbons when she committed suicide--so the line "strumming my pain with his fingers" became "strumming my face with his fingers" and I associated it with Janis Joplin, especially with the Killing Me Softly line.

So nothing, for me, can overshadow the Roberta Flack version...but maybe you're right. Maybe the Fugees really did take it over... I do like it better..

Darnit. [Smile]
 
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
 
Thank you Katarin... I can't believe anyone thinks that any version other then the Simon and Garfunkel Mrs Robinson could POSSIBLY be definitive. Not for another 40 years at least. Ditto on Walk This Way. That is CLEARLY an Aerosmith song. Run DMC just happened to get in on that bag of tricks.
 
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
 
Dr. Evil, which group did the "You Really Got Me" in the commercial? I think it had barbies or something in it... with a toy car... or maybe it was a commercial with an operation in it...

wow... those are two totally different images... I'm lost.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
quote:

I personally love that one, but I don't think it was as popular, even in its time, as the Fugees version.

*blink* You're living on another planet, right? Because I guarantee you that "Killing Me Softly" is, to the vast majority of people on this planet, a Roberta Flack song. [Smile]
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
As with everything, it has a lot to do with context. If the vast majority you're talking about are baby boomers who listen to classic rock all day, then yes, I'm sure they have no idea who the Fugees are.

But if by vast majority you mean people from the ages of 3-30, most of them don't even know that the song was a cover. The same argument could be made for most of the songs in this thread. For most, the definitive version is the one they first heard, or the one the grew up listening to.

But, since you guaranteed me....

The one grand slam on this list, I think, is All Along the Watchtower. But I'm sure that someone will swear that it's a travesty, and only the Dylan version will stand the test of time. Half the fun of threads like this is arguing about which is the definitive version.
 
Posted by calaban (Member # 2516) on :
 
everyone does All Along the Watchtower my favorite is the Dave Matthews Band version.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
"Lean on Me" is another song that was hugely popular the second time around. However, I can't remember either the remake artist or the original artist.
 
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
 
Lean on Me - I'm pretty sure was Bill Withers.
 
Posted by Dr. Evil (Member # 8095) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Katarain:
Dr. Evil, which group did the "You Really Got Me" in the commercial? I think it had barbies or something in it... with a toy car... or maybe it was a commercial with an operation in it...

wow... those are two totally different images... I'm lost.

That was the Van Halen version. From their first album which was released in 1978.
 
Posted by Dr. Evil (Member # 8095) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by adam613:
All Along The Watchtower is a Hendrix song. I like the Indigo Girls version better though.

Actually it is a Bob Dylan song, pre-Hendrix.
 
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
 
For me the definitive version of Proud Mary is the Tina Turner one, I'm not sure if the recordings I've heard were her dueting with Ike or not. Even John Fogerty has said she's better than him.

On all the Otis Redding songs, yeah the cover is better, same with many Dylan, but I like Bob Dylan.

Only one cover of a Beatles song is better and that's the Joe Cocker, With A Little Help...

I don't think I've ever heard anyone cover That Loving Feeling.
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Lean On Me was Bill Withers.
 
Posted by Dr. Evil (Member # 8095) on :
 
Lean On Me remake by Club Nouveau
 
Posted by Dr. Evil (Member # 8095) on :
 
Judas Priest did a couple of covers on the 1979 Live album - the first was Diamonds and Rust, originally done by Joan Baez and the second was "The Green Manalishi" which was done by the original Fleetwood Mac (when they were a hard rock group). I thought they did a great job re-making these songs.

Aerosmith re-did the Beatles "Come Together" circa 1978 and had some huge popularity with it too.
 
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Evil:
quote:
Originally posted by Katarain:
Dr. Evil, which group did the "You Really Got Me" in the commercial? I think it had barbies or something in it... with a toy car... or maybe it was a commercial with an operation in it...

wow... those are two totally different images... I'm lost.

That was the Van Halen version. From their first album which was released in 1978.
There are so many covers of that song, I can't even count them. I know Eve 6 did one that was decent, but I like Van Halen's version best.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:

I personally love that one, but I don't think it was as popular, even in its time, as the Fugees version.

*blink* You're living on another planet, right? Because I guarantee you that "Killing Me Softly" is, to the vast majority of people on this planet, a Roberta Flack song. [Smile]
I disagree, strongly. Most people under 35-40 don't know, or care, who she was, but everyone who listens to the radio knows the Fugee's version.


More people know Every Breath You Take from Sting, but the newer single still had Sting in it, and was wildly popular...it crossed all genre lines and because a worldwide hit yet again.


Kwea
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
I like the Fugees version better.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
quote:
Most people under 35-40 don't know, or care, who she was, but everyone who listens to the radio knows the Fugee's version.
You realize I'm 30, right, and still haven't heard the Fugees version because I have musical taste? [Wink]

Edit: And having quickly looked it up online, I don't regret that decision.

quote:

Strumming dub plates with our fingers,
Eliminate sounds with our song,
Killing a sound boy with this sound,
Killing a sound boy with this sound,
Taking sound boys’ lives with this dub,
Killing him softly with this sound.

*shudder* It's ghastly.
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Everyone has taste. Whether or not it's good, well, I guess that's not for me to judge. If you have good taste, you should throw out your preconceived notions and give the Fugees a listen. They made some really good music.

EDIT: Where's that quote supposed to be from? I don't think those lyrics appear anywhere in their version. The lyrics are the same.
 
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
 
I realize that taste is subjective, and that there will never be a definitive standard for art. But for what it's worth, I have a friend who has a Ph.D. in music and is currently a professor at a university who has, among many other things, taught a full semester class on the history of rap. And in his opinion the Fugees album The Score that "Killing Him Softly" was on is one of the five best hip-hop albums ever made.

So it's fine if, based upon what you've looked up on the internet, you don't think that version is worthy of the original. But don't pretend that it's due to superior taste. [Wink]
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
I like your friend. I don't have a Ph.D. in anything, but I definitely agree with him on the top five status.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
What exactly do you see in the track? I've listened to it, now, and it seems almost completely meritless.
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
The thing I like about the Fugees version, off the top of my head - the beat. Anytime a song causes my head to bob unbeknownst to me, it's a good thing. This is a symptom of listening to too much Michael Jackson during my formative years. I love a good beat.

I also think Lauryn Hill's voice has phenomenal depth and tone. So the main difference to me between the original and this one is it seems to mean a lot more when Hill sings the words.

I like the vocal adlibs at the end, probably because I have vivid memories of being in a car full of people, everyone singing along to that at the top of their lungs.

But if you listen to it for the first time ever on your computer, already convinced it's no good, it's no surprise you find you're right. I think psychology calls that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The only things I prefer in the original is how clean it is, and the fact that she does all three verses.
 
Posted by hugh57 (Member # 5527) on :
 
City of New Orleans - Arlo Guthrie (origial: Steve Goodman)
 
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
 
quote:
I don't see how you can possibly not have heard this version. Were you alive during the eighties?
Yes, but I was in elementary school and the only music I really listened to back then was Kiss, Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, Young MC, MC Hammer, and weekly top 40 radio.
 
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
Gotta I'm with Tom on "Killing Me Softly".
 
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
 
I was going to try to explain why I like the Fugees version of "Killing Me Softly". As I formulated my thoughts, I was reminded of the time that I tried to explain to my wife why I'm such a big fan of the movie Doctor Strangelove.

Strangelove is one of my all time favorite movies. The acting, the writing, the directing, the cinematography, the satire, the characterizations, the way Peter Sellers plays his different characters, the way George C. Scott parodies his own onscreen persona, Slim Pickens' earnestly goofy fighter pilot... there isn't a single element of that film that isn't absolutely brilliant. So when I was introducing my wife to my favorite pieces of classic American culture, I couldn't wait to show her this. Imagine my disappointment when she never laughed once, and fell asleep halfway through.

She wanted me to explain to her why I loved this movie so much. And I tried--lord help me, how I tried. But the fact is, I can see it from her point of view. When I watch it, I can understand how she can see this brilliant piece of cinema as two hours of dry, pointless black-and-white footage of stupid people doing inane and worthless things. I still adore Strangelove, and the vast majority of scholars and film buffs agree with me, but I've surrendered to the inevitable fact that my wife, intelligent and tasteful as she is, will never share that adoration.

Trying to explain why I like The Fugees' version of "Killing Me Softly" is very much like that. I can see Tom's point of view, and in this case there aren't many hard facts I can use to back up mine. Listening to it from his point of view, I can hear a dry version of a song he likes, with a simple drum and bass line and some perfunctory rapped ejaculations from Wycleffe. I still love it. Yes, it works better in the context of the album (IMHO) than as a single, but even as a single, I think it's pretty damn great. And, from what I can tell, most scholars and music historians share this point of view. But that's not going to change Tom's mind. Nor should it.

Everyone in the world can find some ways their artistic tastes differ from established norms. I don't think Nirvana is as great as most people in the biz. My wife thinks Doctor Strangelove is overrated. And Tom doesn't like The Fugees. So what? That's what makes us human. Tom may never get why JT and I like The Fugees, and that's fine. As long as we're both judging with open minds, and neither of us decide that our arbitrary way of thinking somehow makes us more intelligent, cultured or tasteful than the other, I'm okay with his opinions. I may as well be... I'm not going to change them anyway. [Smile]
 
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
In fact, what you said is one of the reasons I love music so much. Everybody likes what they like, and they don't like certain other stuff. And for the most part it's totally arbitrary. You can't change people's minds about music because it's so subjective.

That's why I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone's shadow. No wait, that's not what I decided.

I decided never to criticize anyone's taste in music. Even if I don't like an artist, it's alright with me if people do like them.

Except for Blink 182.
 
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
I decided never to criticize anyone's taste in music. Even if I don't like an artist, it's alright with me if people do like them.

Except for Blink 182.

[ROFL] Right on!
 
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
 
Not to re-rail the thread, but here're some more definitive covers:

Santana's version of Oye Como Va
They Might Be Giants' version of Istanbul (Not Constantinopol)
And I may get some crap for this one, but I'll always consider Cowboy Junkies' version of Sweet Jane to be definitive.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
No, I think you're right. The CJ version of Sweet Jane has almost completely displaced the original in my mind.

TMBG has a lot of covers of source material so obscure that people think they wrote the song. [Smile]
 
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
quote:
quote:
but Ike and Tina's version of Proud Mary is much more well-known than the original Creedence version.

Same planet as I, apparently. I too prefer the CCR version, but any time I request the song, I can count on hearing the Ike & Tina version.

-o-

quote:
All Along The Watchtower is a Hendrix song. I like the Indigo Girls version better though.
I own every Indigo Girls album, and I don't believe I have this cover. Where can I get it?

-o-

quote:
Celine Dion's version of The Power Of Love is far better-known than the original by Laura Brannigan, due to it being one of the top tracks of 1994.

That is so wrong on so many levels.

I agree with you, but Laura Brannigan's remake is apparently better known than the earlier remake by Air Supply--not to mention the original by some chick whose name escapes me. [Smile]

-o-

And speaking of Laura Brannigan, Michael Bolton's cover of "her" song "How Am I Supposed To Live Without You?" which he actually wrote, was a bigger hit than her hit version.
 
Posted by Dr. Evil (Member # 8095) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Speed:
They Might Be Giants' version of Istanbul (Not Constantinopol)

I had no idea this was a remake.
 


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