quote:

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she's making a hasty decision that will affect the rest of her life

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Any decision she makes at this point is going to emotionally affect the rest of her life, no matter what it is. Giving a living child up for adoption is going to be just as painful, if not more, than giving up the child before it is carried to term.
 

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Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
 
The fact that you know about it at all shows that your opinions are important to her even if she is not showing it right now. She could have just gone and gotten the abortion without ever telling her family at all even if that is not legal where you are.

You and your niece are more than welcome to email me anytime(with your alias or not). I have firsthand experience with this situation. Good luck and God bless you.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
MD, is your niece in a state that requires parental permission to have an abortion?
 

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Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
 
The advice to stay out of it is about the worst I've heard in this situation. Sounds like you come from a very close family and there are ways you can be a loving, supportive influence. I've emailed you privately with my best advice -- if you don't get it let me know.

Kristine
 

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Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
 
I think you are very kind person to care so much for your niece, but I think that is the issue, she is your niece, not your daughter. An aunt's place is to, like Tom said, guide her by example.

I recently had a friend in a similar situation, she chose to abort the baby. Thanks to some of the people here, I was able to (mostly) refrain from butting in and found I was a better friend by just being there and listening, not solving her problem for her.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I would hasten to point out that there's a huge difference between extending your love and support and demonstrating your faith by example and "staying out of it."

But more concrete intervention is indeed, IMO, none of your business. If your sister asks you for advice, great. If your niece asks you for advice, great. But I wouldn't automatically assume that the role you need to play here is any more proactive than simply being a pillar of strength. And I say "simply" knowing full well that being a pillar of strength is in fact darn hard to do.
 

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Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
 
Tom -- I don't know how much experience you have in these situations. But I have quite a lot. Your advice here is simply wrong. For the sake of Moral Dilemma I hope you stay out of this conversaton.
 

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Posted by dawnmaria (Member # 4142) on :
 
Is there any way you can have her speak with someone who has been through this? Maybe she can ask them things she can't ask you all. She feels trapped right now and if you're not in her position you don't understand no matter how much you love and want to help her. Leaving her alone for a few days is a good idea. Let her calm down. Telling all of you was probably the hardest thing she's ever done and she is feeling scared and maybe embarassed as well. But when she gets over it see if she'll go to talk to someone. Not just a ProLife someone either. You'd be surprised what talking to someone who made the other choice can do to a person. If you can find a non judgemental person who's been there to answer her questions, IMO, you've done the best thing you can do. Then be supportive of her NO MATTER WHAT SHE CHOOSES! Even if it is not what you would want for her! There will be guilt no matter what and she'll need ya'll to love her. I will pray for you all to have the strength to get through this.
 

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Posted by MoralDilemma (Member # 8716) on :
 
I can't even use initials here in case a family member comes across the thread. My older niece told me about her younger (17-year-old) sister. I haven't talked to the younger niece about this. My sister didn't want me to know - my guess is because she probably thinks we would want to adopt the baby (I made a similar suggestion many years ago when she was abandoned by her husband and had very young kids). I will not be making that suggestion now. Yes, I would love to have a baby. No, I'm not in a position to do that right now.

I really think that if she has the baby and gives it up for adoption, she can do the things she's planning - finish high school and go to college. I'm hoping that panic will subside and she will be able to think more clearly about alternatives.

My older niece has a friend who has been in this situation. She's hoping to have this friend talk to her sister.

rivka: I think our state does require parental permission, but neighboring states might not. I tried looking at the state code and was thoroughly confused.

Given Tom's belief system, I understand what he's saying. My belief system is not the same as his, so I may not take his advice, but I'm going to take the point of view that he means well.

I do appreciate all your comments. I came looking for advice and a bit of a place to vent my worry. I have found that. My panic is beginning to subside. That is what I was expecting from Hatrack and that is what I found. Thank you. I will continue to check this thread and post here as MD.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 

quote:

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I think our state does require parental permission, but neighboring states might not. I tried looking at the state code and was thoroughly confused.

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quote:

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Then you need to make sure everyone involved is careful; in some states with parental consent laws, it is against the law for an adult to transport a minor across state lines for the purpose of getting an abortion without consent of the parents.

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She has her own car and can drive about an hour to a different state.

The baby's father wasn't a steady boyfriend or anything - apparently it was a one-time deal. He's offered to help pay for an abortion. I think his mom knows about this but not his dad. My other niece thinks her mom and the boy's parents need to sit down and talk about this, but the boy doesn't want his dad to know about it.

I think she's just as likely to go to college if she has the baby as if she doesn't. There are other factors - her family is poor. Her mom won't be able to help pay for college, but she will qualify for grants and loans, if she really wants to go. Having a baby doesn't have to stop those plans. Okay, it would be embarrassing to go to prom pregnant, but you know what? Going to prom isn't a prerequisite for graduation. You don't even have to go to graduation to graduate - I didn't go to mine, due to a death in the family.

And, I'm in the position of someone who didn't go to church for a long time. During that time I did some things that I wish I hadn't done. But, (to my mind) nothing on this scale of importance. So, the notion of her having regrets later is very much on my mind. To quell speculation on the matter, we are LDS.

And, this whole thing makes me feel helpless and worried. I have children of my own. I don't know what I would do if in a few years one of my kids came to me with this situation. You can never tell, when you look at the sweet face of a young child, what trials will come to them.
 

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Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
 
Hmmm... I think it is very, very unlikely that the real reason she wants to have an abortion is because she doesn't want to go to prom pregnant.

I can't imagine that.

I'm guessing she may have said that to her sister, along with a lot of other things, in a panicked state, and her sister -- disapproving of the pregnancy and being upset with the girl over the whole issue -- told you it had something to do with prom. That's human.

Aborting a baby to go a dance is not.

There are many, many good reasons for your neice not to have this baby. And there are many good reasons for your neice to have the baby.

But ultimately she should not be forced to carry the baby to term when a safe medical solution (abortion) is available.

Just my two cents.
 

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Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
 
In other words, I think love and care should be shown in providing your neice with as much support as possible, but the final decision should be hers. Keep religion out of it.
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
MD, who is going to pay for the medical bills for the baby if she has it? That may very well be one of the things she's thinking about. From discussions we've had on this board regarding the issue of abortion, I believe people have mentioned that if the baby is adopted, the people doing the adopting will usually pay for the medical bills. This might be something you can verify and tell her.

As far as that goes, is it possible to sweeten the pot? If money is an issue, is it possible that she could get both the medical bills payed for and some money for college for adopting out her baby? That way, you are engaging a carrot to get her to do what you want to do.

Another question that I have is, is it possible that she wants to have an abortion because she wants to avoid the condemnation from her local church/ward?
 

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Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
 
My neighbor adopted two boys over the last 4 years. The mother, in both cases, was a young girl who wasn't ready to take on another responsibility.

During the last 3 monthes of pregnancy, when the pregnancy was most obvious, the mother was flown to California and became a "niece" to my neighbors. My neighbors got to be involved in the pregnancy and the mother got to "be on vacation" as far as prying eyes from home were concerned.

My neighbors tried for 7 years to have a child. The effort cost them much financially, emotionally and physically. Once they decided to adopt, it was another two years before they found their first son. They say that the wait was worth it. They love being parents and are very good at it.

Before I knew this story, I might have been less able to say to a pregnant teen who saw a child as the end of her future, that there can really be a happy ending for her, her child and someone who desperately wants and is able to take care of a new life. Now, I wouldn't hesitate to say with conviction that she may be able to answer her own as well as someone elses prayer.
 

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Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
 
"That way, you are engaging a carrot to get her to do what you want to do."

>.<
That sounds slimy...
I know you mean well but, ugh.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I was friends with a woman, about 20 or 21 - we were in the same LDS singles ward - who was pregnant. She stayed in that ward throughout her entire pregnancy and gave it up for adoption. She remained in that ward after, as well. Everyone knew what was going on - there was no way to hide that she was very obviously pregnant near the end.

She was treated, as far as I saw, with kindness and compassion. While there may have been negative comments, I never saw it or heard of them.

I don't know whether she met the adoptive parents - I don't remember - but I do know that they had contact after the adoption. The adoptive parents wrote her letters telling her how her child was doing, growing up, that sort of thing. This woman knew that what she did, in giving up the child, was the best thing she could have done.

It can be done. Granted, it took a great deal of courage, and she was older than your neice, but it can be done.

MoralDilemma, I understand your desire to help and I understand that you're probably looking at this from the eternal perspective. I wish you luck. This is a tough situation.
 

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Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
MD, it looks to me like you have a difficult choice regarding your priorities. What's most important to you right now? The life of the unborn child? Your niece's right to make her own decisions? Your relationship with your niece and her family? Your niece's future (which will be affected either way, whether she has an abortion or whether she gives birth)?

I wouldn't condemn a person for choosing some of those things over others, though I think that none of them can be excluded from your decision. Whatever you think is the most important element will probably help you determine how much you need to be involved, and what you need to do.

I would echo that whatever happens, do not make your niece feel guilty for what she has done. I doubt it will help anyone, and it's not as if she can take back her actions.

Good luck.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

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Tom -- I don't know how much experience you have in these situations. But I have quite a lot. Your advice here is simply wrong. For the sake of Moral Dilemma I hope you stay out of this conversaton.

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While I of course have never been a niece nor an aunt, I have a fair amount of experience with abortion -- from both a second-hand and a third-hand experience. And I also have a few aunts, for what it's worth.

And unless people have very different relationships with their aunts in other parts of the country -- which I'll freely grant is a possibility -- I can't imagine anything usefully meddlesome an aunt could do in this situation. This may of course be a culture clash, but I speak with a fair bit of certainty when I say that an aunt or uncle who tried to involve themselves in this sort of conversation in Chicago would get a very chilly reception.

It's also worth keeping in mind that my "belief system" when it comes to abortion is perhaps not as easily predicted as one might think. I actually agree that in this situation adoption is probably the most consistently moral and responsible behavior available to the girl at this point. However I strongly disagree with the assumption that an aunt -- brought into the situation against her sister's wish by the older sister of the girl actually considering the abortion -- has been invited to involve herself in this issue; I worry that presuming this is the case could easily create ill will and a resistance to moral authority at a time when these are the last things needed.

Obviously, none of us know the specific details of the case. But I hesitate to suggest that any advice on the issue -- short, perhaps, of "kill them all and take their stuff" -- is "simply wrong," since it's clear that MD is at this point merely trawling for various options and opinions. She has deliberately provided only enough information for us to give her gut reactions, not informed advice, and I'd like to believe that it's because she's looking for a wide range of possibilities. As I was writing a much longer post about possible ways to get her niece to consider adoption, it occurred to me that one possibility that MD had to consider here -- and which had not at that point been expressed -- is that her involvement has not been solicited and may not be welcomed.

That's not a determination any of us on this thread can make, and I'm glad to see that she's considering it in the open-ended spirit in which that observation was offered.

[ October 10, 2005, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
 

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Posted by Minerva (Member # 2991) on :
 
It is also not clear that the older sister was "authorized" by the pregnant sister to tell the aunt.

So getting invovled could cause a sibiling fight, and lose the pregnant sister a confidante and a source of support.
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
This is an unfortunate situation. But these things are what family are great for. I say just be there with support and comfort, and if you are asked what you think, be honest.
 

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Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
 
There's a difference in having an opinion and wanting to help. MoralDilemma, I think if you communicate that you are eager to help (money, time, sympathetic ear), without strings attached including "you owe me one" or "you have to admit you're wrong," this may well show her that you really care and you're one to be trusted: and so she may turn to love. I think you're already doing this, and I really hope it works out.
 

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Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
Here's my two cents:

Storm Saxon, I hate to admit it, but some of the girl's motivation for wanting the abortion may be that she is afraid of the embarassment she will feel around her LDS friends as her belly begins to swell and everyone knows she's a sinner. That isn't to say that her friends will reject her or even cause her to feel embarassed, but as a young LDS woman, I can imagine the sense of dread at knowing that soon everyone would know what I had done.

She may also feel that her future has been pulled out from under her, that college and marriage to a young LDS man willing to take her to the temple have now been taken away. It's possible that some opportunities may not now be available to her, but I don't believe that she needs to give up hope yet.

Strangely enough, I agree with Tom in that directly talking to the neice is probably a bad idea. However, there is no such ban against talking to the neice's immediate family. If you can give them advice and suggestions in how to support their daughter/sister in bringing the child to term and then giving it up for adoption or raising it herself, that's all for the best. If there's something you know your neice should be told, you can pass it along to those closer to her than you are, especially if they are soliciting your advice.

If I were to advise the girl, I would tell her that even though her life may look better on the outside if she goes through with the abortion, she will know and the Lord will know. I would tell her I expect that those who truly love her will support her courage to do what is right rather than condemn her for her mistake. I would encourage her to talk to her best girl friend about her dilemma--peers can be very effective at convincing when family (especially parents) are not.
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Is the girl LDS? I don't recall that being said, but maybe I missed it.

Were it me and I had the relationship to do it, I'd take the girl to dinner with a very dear friend of mine. This friend of mine grew up Mormon and had two abortions, one at 15, one at 17. She has quite a bit to say about it, in a very compassionate, kind way. She's on the board of directors for a crisis pregnancy center now, and having been there, she has a huge well of compassion for girls who find themselves in this situation.

MD, if you want her contact information, I'd be happy to hook you two up. She, I'm sure, would be more than happy to talk with you.
 

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Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
MoralDilemma is LDS (she said so a few posts up) and definitely implied that the family is close-knit and religious. She also mentioned the girl talking to her bishop.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
MD, I have nothing to add from an LDS viewpoint but you all remain in my thoughts and prayers. Maybe you could search online from stories of LDS women who were in this situation?
 

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Posted by Minerva (Member # 2991) on :
 
I don't know much about LDS culutre, but I imagine the response of the LDS community is probably similar to the response of the religious Jewish community.

At the end of junior year, one of my very good friends got pregnant. It was definitely a pretty horrible year for her, and there was some gossip, but almost everyone was very compassionate. She said the best thing that anyone said to her was the rabbi's wife, who came up to her and said, "You must be really frightened."

Anyway, today she is in medical school, married to a nice frum boy, and expecting twins! And the baby was adopted by another family from our shul, and just started first grade. There are happy endings, and it might be good to remind your neice of that now.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
The best way I've ever seen this situation handled was when the bishop got all the youth together, explained that "soandso is pregnant, soandso is the father, this is the plan, now y'all know everything, they are still your friends and please don't gossip."

It sucked the mystery out of it, and made everything much more comfortable.
 

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Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Is the father LDS, as well?

And, come to think of it, IS the girl LDS? I mean, just because the family is close-knit and religious doesn't necessarily mean that the daughter follows the same religious beliefs.

-pH
 

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Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
Kat, that sounds like such a good idea.

This is unrelated, but I remember a bishop talking to a group of youth in my freshman ward about exactly where the boundaries regarding chastity were. He was very blunt, but I never worried that I was kissing too much or doing something inappropriate because I knew when to stop.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
Is the father pressuring her? I think the "not wanting his father to know" part made me think that.
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
MD I think you are to be commended for thinking about something not many people do - the emotional scars abortion can leave on the woman. I have volunteered with a pro-life organization and seen first hand the type of pain that a woman can experience even years after the abortion. At the time, many of them thought only of convenience issues - how a baby would "mess up" their lives, and not how the actual decision would affect them later.

I remember distinctly college being an issue with one. The woman said she aborted the baby because she didn't want to not go to college, and instead, the depression resulting from the abortion caused her to drop out of college anyway. She mourns that child to this day, saying that the anniversary of the abortion and the day that would have been the baby's due date are both hell on her, every year.

There is more to an abortion than just the decision to make on the act itself, there are repurcussions that will be felt for the rest of her life.

I will be praying for her, for the family, and for the child.
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 

quote:

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the emotional scars abortion can leave on the woman

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quote:

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She wants to go to prom, but doesn't want to go pregnant. I'm concerned that she doesn't realize that there are other consequences that follow that choice.

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quote:

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I believe wholeheartedly that if this young woman is pressured into carrying this fetus to term without making the decision herself you may lose her far more completely and irrevocably than if she chooses to abort. Having someone else walk into your life and make life-altering decisions for you engenders resentment and mistrust. She would never know whether she made the right decision because it would not have been her choice.

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quote:

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Originally posted by danny1989:
She feels it's not a baby because it's too small for her to feel yet.

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If that was accurate criteria, then my friend, who gave birth a few weeks ago, would have been justified in aborting and killing her fetus up to the day the baby was born. My friend didn't once feel the baby kick or move her entire pregnancy, despite the docs telling her that the baby was active and healthy.

danny, good luck.
 

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Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 
If she chooses to carry to term and put the child up for adoption, the father will have to be involved. He has to sign away his parental rights to the baby. The only way to get out of that is if she doesn't know who the father is and signs an affadavit to that effect (at least in my state).
 

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Posted by Samarkand (Member # 8379) on :
 
Um, if I were to tell a fifteen year old girl that I could see more clearly than she could, that my belief system was more valid than hers, that there are millions of children on the planet right now who are not being cared for, and that I KNEW she should get an abortion, people would jump all over me for it. And rightly so. It isn't my choice, and my opinions, whatever they might be (and I use the above merely as an extreme example) really aren't that critical.

Telling her that abortion is murder and that she MUST NOT do it is just the flip side. Poor kid.
 

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Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
 
I will admit that I once knew someone in a similar situation. She was 18. I think I was 21. I was not the father, but she needed help... And all she got from her family was this "abortion is murder and the baby is a baby rap." So I paid for the abortion.

If the niece does not want to have the kid, she shouldn't be forced to. Her decision should be supported by her family so she isn't made to feel a monster the way my friend was.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
One thing that concerns me, IMO, is that this decision should be made fairly quickly. Choosing to abort a fetus at eight weeks is not the same decision as choosing to abort a fetus at five months.
 

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Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
It's possible that Moral Dilemma and her family would argue that there is no major difference--taking a life is taking a life. Still, you do have a point, if only because earlier abortions are easier on the woman's body.

Danny, have you tried talking to your sister about this? If she's afraid and confused, she could probably use a sympathetic ear. She might also benefit from a frank and open discussion of her options. Don't try to pretend that abortion isn't an option, or she may choose it out of rebellion, or out of ignorance. If she sees the downsides to going through with the pregancy, and isn't aware of the negative consequences of abortion, it might look like the most attractive option, even if it really isn't.

I hope that you'll be able to communicate your love for her, and help her to realize that her life isn't ruined forever because of this. I'm glad that she has people who care about her.
 

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Posted by MoralDilemma (Member # 8716) on :
 
I'm reviving this thread because in 24 hours we should know if my niece made the right decision (yes, in my opinion). She has an appointment for a medical abortion less than 12 hours from now.

I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and talk with her face-to-face. So, I sent her an e-mail telling her what I would tell her if we could talk. I have no idea if she will read it, but I had to find a way to tell her how I feel.

I can only hope she changes her mind - this is sliding towards disaster (again, IMO). I can see this coloring her relationship with her mom and sister at home to the point of causing a long, if not permament, rift. Her sister will have to tell her side of this, if she comes back to this thread.

And, the people in my family that I was holding back the truth from know now. But I told them in person, they didn't find out by reading it here. My mom also knows, but our dad, who lives in another state, doesn't know yet.

Any prayers for my niece would be appreciated (that she makes the decision that is right for her). Thanks.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
I'll say a prayer.
 

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Posted by OaTmEaLfAiRy (Member # 8725) on :
 
This is the sister. All I can really say is that I have only felt sadness and anger in the past 2 weeks. Also, that I am thinking very unchristian thoughts about this boy and his family. He's pressuring her, I know it, but I don't know how to stop it and I'm afraid I don't have enough time. I'm in a constant prayer.
 

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Posted by Nato (Member # 1448) on :
 

quote:

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the emotional scars abortion can leave on the woman

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quote:

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I can see this coloring her relationship with her mom and sister at home to the point of causing a long, if not permament, rift.

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While I understand that she's making a decision that you (and her sister and her mother) disagree with, it does not have to cause a rift between them.
I'm sure that this was an extremely hard and emotional decision for her and whatever your personal moral or religious beliefs may be, she is ultimately the only person who will have to answer for it.
Now that her decision has been made, what she needs from her family is their unconditional love and support. There is no place in this situation for judgemental attitudes or statements. It's okay to be upset and disappointed in her decision, just please keep it to yourself.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
This is heartbreaking.
 

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Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Nato:There is no credible evidence that women who terminate an unwanted first pregnancy are at a higher risk of depression, researchers say.

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quote:

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While I understand that she's making a decision that you (and her sister and her mother) disagree with, it does not have to cause a rift between them.

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quote:

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Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. If you encourage an abortion in any way, you may be subject to Church discipline.

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This is why it's such a problem for the rest of the family. To us, it's not my niece "taking care of a problem." It's a deeply disturbing action - it's disrespect for God's laws and for life, itself.

I always considered myself pro-choice, in that I believed that abortion is wrong, but everyone has to make their own decisions. In a way, I guess there's a little bit of that left, because if abortion was illegal, my niece would have had to find a dangerous solution to her problem if she still insisted on having an abortion. But, I wish it was harder for her to get that abortion, difficult enough that maybe she could have gone through with the pregnancy.

My mom told me that my niece (age 17, remember?) was drunk when she had the sex that got her pregnant, and that she still drinks. She doesn't get it at home, I'm sure of that. But she apparently hasn't learned any lessons here. I'm afraid that this tragedy hasn't ended yet.

(Forgive the melodrama - it's late and I've had a stressful day.)
 

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Posted by Samarkand (Member # 8379) on :
 
I didn't mean to imply that dealing with someone who has had an abortion would be easy; I just thought that the Nazi/ KKK reference was on a bit of a different level.

.:Edited to add articles . . . whew, my brain is broken.:.
 

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Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
 
Just to let everyone know ... when I started this thread, I wanted opinions not based on what people thought I wanted to hear, I wanted unpreconceived ideas (does that make sense?). I went anonymous because I was hoping for opinions and advice based on the situation, not based on what people think of me. I believe I got what I asked for.

I always intended to "come out" about my identity eventually, and figured since the situation is now completely out of my hands, in the sense that the action we wanted to prevent has already happened, I might as well reveal myself.

And, the stressful day thing was about working 2 p.m. to 12:15 a.m. without a break, at a newspaper on a night with a tornado touchdown in our area (one woman died) and having problems sending page 1 to the print plant. It's 3 a.m. now and I think I should probably toddle off to bed.
 

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Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
 

 

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Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
 
What a heartbreaking situation. I pray that the Lord's peace will be able to be felt for all of your family members and that true healing can take place. Have you put their names on the temple prayer rolls? I think it would be very helpful for all of you. ((((((HUGS))))))))
 

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Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
 
I'll have to ask my mom about that. I haven't been to the temple myself.

And, the other thing I had put out of my mind until today ... my dad doesn't know yet, afaik. I told my sister to tell him before anything happens, but I don't think that she did. (Our parents are divorced, dad remarried.) So, that has the potential to blow up in her face, since he lives in a place that is frequently visited by people in our ward.

My niece's birthday is coming up, and I'm thinking of getting her a Nativity. We had a conversation about them a couple of weeks ago, and I saw one that I think she might like. The thing is, will she think I'm trying to make a point or just that I'm trying to get her something she might like? We'll see, I guess.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
You can always give it to her with a "Since you said you liked these, I saw this and thought of you." That will make it clear that you just want her to be happy.

As long as you don't think it will hurt her.
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Cai, sonsidering the situation I felt that asking it under a psudonym was completely justified.


My parents are private people, and if I had something really bothring me, and I came here asking for help, I know they wouldn't understand why I had to post something in a public forum about it. I am very far away from my family and most of my friends right now, so if something horrible or difficult happened I probably WOULD post it here....


But changing the name of who posted it, as long as you are up front about it from the beginning, is a reasonable way of asking for help while still maintaining secrecy for other involved.


I hope your neice is OK, as much as she can be at this point, and I will pray for her.
 

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Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
 
Thanks, Kwea (and everyone else).
 

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Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
 
You can call the temple to put her name on the prayer roll. You don't have to be there in person.
 

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Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
 
Ah, okay. I'll talk to my mom about it.
 

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Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I thought I was as nosy as anyone else on the board, but maybe because I'm strongly ambivalent on this issue, I'd just sit and hold her hand. And it sounds as if she needs all of the hand holding she can get.

Edit:

It looks like I have more to say. I take parenting as serious as some people take religion, and maybe it's different when you have a strong community that will mitigate a parent's screw-ups, so my understanding may not be relevant, but it doesn't sound like the girl is ready to be a good parent, and if she isn't going to be a good parent, I don't think that she should be a parent at all. Unwanted kids, absent a strong support system, are great ways to screw up lives.

Now I'm not considering doctrinal issues. In those, I'm truly out of my depth, but you wanted opinions and you have mine. I don't know how much of her soul is at play, but I do know that in my community, kids don't help people straighten out their act, they just raises the stakes on the parent's screw-ups.

[ November 16, 2005, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 

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Posted by jaysedai6 (Member # 8856) on :
 
I am CaySedai s mom, so this is my gd. I saw that morning and told her I would always love her even tho I didnt approve of her choices.

She has feelings about if she made the right decision, but it is too late now.
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Dear jaysedai and caysedai,

A few years back I did some volunteering with a pro-life organization, one of the things they did is offer counseling for women who had had abortions. Now, I'm no counselor, nor am I a psychologist or any type of therapist, so all I did was provide a listening ear. There were professionally trained counselors that did the "real" work.

From my experience, I believe that your niece is at pretty high risk for some serious depression. If she is having second thoughts, now that it is indeed too late, there may well be a part of her that believes what she did is wrong, and that will grieve and mourn for the child.

What you have said is, I think, very helpful - if you told her that you thought what she did was fine, I'm sure she wouldn't believe you - she knows you disapprove. But more importantly, you told her you love her and always will. She will need your support. I would say it's vitally important that you reach out to her, that you let her know she can talk to you and refrain from lecturing her or browbeating her about what she has done. (not that you would, but I have talked with girls before whose families constantly berated them and called them a murderer and all it did was compound the tragedy of the situation, not improve it)

Give her love, give her support. Check in your community, there may be ministries out there like the one I volunteered with - all they did was offer support and a place for women to talk about their grief and pain, they did not preach or put any kind of pressure on them. Watch for symptoms of depression and try to encourage her and her parents to get her professional help if she seems to need it.

I'm so sorry your family is facing this tragedy, I will pray for you all.
 

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