I have written an essay against bad dubbing in the website of a Sailor Moon Stars fandub thing. Here is what I wrote, I hope you guys can appreciate this, I would've posted it elsewhere, but I couldn't think of a community that would respond to this faster, and I need to know how this goes:
quote: I am furious at the project. The voices are good and everything, but the music was KILLED. I just do not understand why people continue to target Sailor Moon at children, when its just NOT for them. My opinion is that to make a good fansub, you require a few things, good actors with good voices and the original score to maintain the original experience. I liked the actors' voices, but I cannot stand how they are mostly unable to transmit the emotions the characters are feeling. This is the reason why the original score sounds odd when played, because the TONE of the actors' voices just does not fit it. I have looked at another version of Sailor Stars dubbed in Mexico, and I loved how the actors' voices have the same mood and tone as the music. Allow me to put my thoughts in order:
>>I read elsewhere on this very forum that the reason the music was taken from the episodes was because Japanese music didn't go well with the English voices. I beg to differ. Mexico is as different to Japan as America and yet, Mexico kept the original score and produced an effective atmosphere extremely similar to the Japanese original version. >>Now, as for the actors fitting the mood, this is what I mean: A voice actor is suposed to mold him or herself to the character, not the other way around. Dubbing requires the people working on the project to project the original meaning of the series by molding the staff to fit the thing at hand because that is where the challenge truly is. Its easier to twist things around to fit you instead of bending to the will of what is already set. In other words, you don't change the entire score simply because the actors cannot portray the characters as they truly are. That, is called cheating. The entire point of dubbing is bring something to a culture that cannot understand it in the original language.
Honestly, I could not bear to watch the clip much after I had heard all the voices simply because I could not stand seeing how my most beloved Sailor Moon season was mutilated into something as horrific as this. Don't get me wrong, as I have stated previously, there are good things to this dub. First of all, the actors' voices are GOOD, they voices are there, they are just not using them to portray the characters' emotions right. I dare you all to watch any Stars episode in Mexican spanish and compare it to this Negavision one. You will all notice something very very clear, Mexican dubbing is much better because the actors molded THEMSELVES to the character, not vice versa as I have already explained.
Seriously, there IS a reason Mexican dubbing is considered the BEST in the world. Here's a little homework, it would greatly please me, and many more fans, I'm sure, if you took a little field trip to Intertrack Mexico, S.A. de C.V., the company who does most, if not all, Mexican anime dubbing. I'm sure you guys would learn much from that experience. As I said before, I am not flaming this project or anything of the sort, all I want is for you guys to understand why it is that most people prefer to watch subs rather than dubs. Take care everyone.
Posted by Audeo (Member # 5130) on :
While I have never watched Sailor Moon, I have seen this problem in other anime shows. The problem doesn't seem as prevalent in movies. Most of my impressions are based on Yu-Gi-OH, Pokemon, and Dragonball-Z. For whatever reason the quality and sound of the voice actors in these shows is horrendous. Of them only the people in Pokemon sound close to real people of the appropriate age and/or gender. Maybe it's a problem just for cartoon shows, but seriously everyone in Dragonball-Z has an annoying voice. I think I might be out of the demographic as none of my brothers finds anything particularly wrong with any of these shows, but it is very annoying.
Compare this with the dubs of any Miyazaki (I hope I spelled that right) film. When they bother to put some funding into getting some decent actors it turns out extremely well, but most of the time, I think they have one person do all the voices, and he's a 50-year-old chain smoker who has laryngitis or at least that's how it sounds like,.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
That happens LOADS of times too.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I actually like dubs. Well... most dubs. Some are just terrible, like "Grave of the Fireflies" or some parts of the Evangelion movies. But I'd rather listen to a dub if possible. The more modern dubs are just as good, if not sometimes better, than the original. "Wolf's Rain", "Evangelion", "Big O", and "Full Metal Alchemist" are a couple of really good dubs.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I hate most dubs and would rather hear the original Japanese. The Sailor Moon dubs drive me crazy not just because they are dubbed, but because the whole plot got changed because they felt that Americans could not deal with things like lesbian sailor soldiers.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Anime dubs aren't by definition bad. The dubs for Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke are better than the subbed versions, I'd say. But somehow other, less-funded dubs manage to be amazingly horrible. The latest DBZ dub is so bad I have to believe they are intentionally doing a poor job.
Let me add, though, that anime fans tend to worry too much about dubbing. It's rare that poor dubbing actually ruins something. Usually, it's just annoying.
[ October 13, 2005, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Tresopax ]
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
The original Dragon Ball in Japanese makes me cry tears of joy and laughter.
The original Dragon Ball in English makes me cry tears of pain and suffering.
--
The same goes for the dubs of Miyazaki's Totoro and Kiki's Delivery Service. While the music remained intact for Fox's dub of Totoro, Disney KILLED the music in Kiki.
They ALMOST made up for this when they hired Joe Hisaishi to completely rescore Laputa: Castle In The Sky with a new full Orchestral Update. That...sounds beautiful. If only they allowed the option to play the original Japanese language track WITH the new score.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Don't get me started...
I agree that Wolf's Rain was probsbly well-dubbed, and I liked the Yu Yu Hakusho dub (it was done by the same group as DBZ, but with some new talent). Those were TV shows, though, and the music was converted to English (in some cases) but the tunes kept te same. Of course, andy anime with Yoko Kanno will have superior music, but Yu Yu Hakusho's music was not terribly thrilling anyway.
I'm curious about how Gankutsuou will sound, dubbed, since the songs were mostly English, anyway.
BTW, I prefer subbed versions, usually, but will watch dubbed stuuff with the kids, since they don't read that fast yet (at least not the wee one).
I remember rec'ing Yami no Matsuei here, then renting it from Netflix and being HORRIFIED at the badness of it. Hisoka was the only character with a reasonably 'fitting' voice, and he overacted.
I was so ashamed. >_<
That said, I'm doing Ghost in the Shell and Witchhunter Robin now, and both of those seem like decent dubs. But, um, how should I sa y this? The voices of most femmes in the Original Japanese make my ears bleed - in some cases they are just too cartoonish and unreal to my ears.
But then, if most anime femmes were not cartoonish and unreal, there wouldn't be yaoi; and if there wasn't yaoi, I would be sad. So *shrug*
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Dubs in general make me twinge.
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
quote:I remember rec'ing Yami no Matsuei here, then renting it from Netflix and being HORRIFIED at the badness of it. Hisoka was the only character with a reasonably 'fitting' voice, and he overacted.
Wordy McWord with a side of word sauce. I didn't even try to watch the dub because I prefer sub, but heard the English voices when I was watching the extras. Big cringe there. I cannot STAND the English voices on Yami No Matseui.
I watch pretty much everything subbed. I've heard that R.O.D. the TV has a good dub, but I just can't fanthom watching it dubbed because I love the original voices so much. They ARE the characters, to me.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I agree with there being a few good dubs out there. Spirited Away, WAS a good one, Susan Egan was in it. She voiced Megara in Hercules. I also like Crispin Feeman's voice, he actually does match his voice to the character. I watched Castle in the Sky in Japanese because I just knew that I would feel so disgusted with the english version, which I later did. I had to watch Sprited Away in english because a friend of mine had lent it to me and she only had the vhs version.
Posted by krynn (Member # 524) on :
i thikn people just get accustomed to watching any anime for the first time in japanese, maybe because it wont be out in english for a long time. Since people see the japanese versions first and get used to them, having to watch them in english and not miss the original cast of vioces or music makes people think less of them. i am no exception. the little anime that i do watch is usually better than its english counterparts when they are finally dubbed. Tho, i think a lot of these shows are really targeted at younger audiences and that adults shouldnt be too critical with MOST anime for its english adaptations. Kids arent going to care how the voices are especially if they never had a chance to watch them with subtitles or could read fast enough to follow them.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Ever seen the dubbed version of Akira? WooBoy. There is no good Excuse to have Tokyo teen back ground characters speak with Brooklyn accents. That one is CERTAINLY not for kids.
But, I get your point, too. Wee get used to it, and it seems to fit better. Or maybe it really does fit better, but it is hard to prove this objectively.
I generally prefer subbed to dubbed, any day, but there are a few good ones, or at least not very annoying ones. Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
*nods at what Olivet said* Mmmm hmm. I watched the Mexican dubs first for most of my anime, and since Mexico has the best in the world, its no wonder I usually see lower quality dubs and am therefore, disappointed in them. I just wish the Mexican version was more international. *sigh*
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
What do you guys think of the versions of Cowboy Bebop? I tend to prefer the dubbed version to the subbed.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I can't stand the dub for Full Metal Alchemist, I have to watch the original Japanese.
Trigun probably has the best dub of any anime I've seen. The voice actor for Vash is simply amazing.
Big O, Gundam Wing (yay!), YuYu Hakusho and other are very good too.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I only saw half of the Gundam Wing series, since I was getting it through Netflix, but we watched it dubbed, so the boys could watch it, too. It was enjoyable.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
There's good dubs and there's bad dubs. In all cases, the sub is going to be better than any dub. But there are some that excel above others.
The real problem I have with dubbed anime is changed content. Nothing sucks more than hearing the music replaced or the jokes changed or seeeing certain scenes edited. I like anime because the Japanese have a very unique approach to storytelling and humor, and when you remove some of these elements in editing, it loses it appeal.
I think some people do the job well. I'm still very impressed with the FMA dub. And aside from some editing of blood, GW was really good. But SM was ripped apart back in its day and I can't even bring myself to watch the new Naruto dub (the voices are a nightmare!)
Posted by Rudolph (Member # 3236) on :
Usually the more well known animes have good dubs. I watched one called Steamboy that had Patrick Stewart as one of the voices. Some are just horrible though. And some, even the subtitles are bad. oh well
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I think YuGiOh, Escaflowne, Gundam Wing, Inu Yasha, and about half of Kenshin had okay dubbed. But I'll always prefer the original japanese with subtitles.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I can't imagine hearing Duo Maxwell in any other voice than the one I've heard on the english dub.
That'd kill it for me right there probably. The voice performances by the GW people I thought were fantastic. Endless Waltz especially.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Okay, as someone who generally just buys DVDs or sees them on American TV first, I prefer dubs. Unless, like in Sailor Moon, the said dubs make my ears bleed.
I liked the Eva dub especially.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Its funny Lyrhawn, cause the guy who did his voice does characters for alot of other animes and cartoons. I heard him first on GW and I always do a double-take when I hear him on anything else.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I think it depends on the dub (or even the sub). Some dubs are fairly good, but some are just atrocious. The same goes for subs though. I've seen some subs which were awesome, and then I've seen some very crude and poorly written subs.
Posted by Brian J. Hill (Member # 5346) on :
Not a huge fan of anime, but for me, ALL dubbing is annoying. More so in live action, because a big part of the role an actor creates is embodied in the voice. For me, if you rob me of my voice and replace it with a poorly paid out-of-work actor, you kill much of the emotion of my performance. As a result, I prefer subtitles 90% of the time (the other 10% are movies with so much action that it's too hard to read and watch at the same time.)
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