Warner Brothers recently dropped the prices of many of their TV show DVD sets to $19.99, enabling me to pick up some sets I coveted but couldn't justify at $50. Such as, say, Smallville. We just finished watching the first season and I have been forcibly reminded why I loved the show, why I stopped watching the show, and why I consider it one of the most wasted opportunies in the history of television.
Smallville, if you've missed it, is the story of Clark Kent before he became Superman. No cape, no costume, no flying (mostly). Just an American boy growing up in a very weird small town. Clark discovers his emerging powers, fights ethical and moral battles within himself, tries to act normal while secretly using his powers to help people, and wends his way through the tricky avenues of friendship, loyalties, and love. I'm not going into a synopsis of the show - that's available elsewhere online, in much better detail. But I tuned in avidly, one of the very few shows I bothered to remember to watch, and I was excited at the prospect. I love the Superman character. He's the quintessential American hero. Thanks to a careful upbringing among honest, honorable people Clark simply doesn't see the point of using his gifts to benefit himself over others. John Byrne, whatever his faults, captured this perfectly when he retooled the entire Superman comic series back in the 80's. The movies, whatever their faults, at least started out with the right idea. And in the hands of talented writers and artists Superman becomes admirable not just for what he can do, but for what he chooses to do and why.
I started off loving Smallville despite the silly monster-teen-of-the-week bits. I liked Clark and his family, I liked his friends (although Lana changing from the red-haired country girl of the comics to a dark-haired exotic beauty was a trifle annoying) and I thought the actors playing the Luthors deserved buckets of Emmys. And the notion that Clark was actually sent to Earth to rule just floored me.
But I got more annoyed every week as the plots took us farther and farther away from Superman history. I don't demand that they comply, word by word, with What Hath Gone Before, but some inner consistency would be nice.
Why is Clark's dead father an ongoing character?
Why is it that his powers are so easy to get, lose, and trade? His dad got 'em, some girl from a car wreck got 'em, some kid hit by lightening stole 'em... kinda takes away the uniqueness of being Clark if his abilities are that transient.
What the hell is up with the Cave of Plot Device? Jor-el was here before? He's still around? Clark was prophesied?
After the government took away the first three or four super-powered teenagers, why didn't they quarantine the whole town and test everybody?
Why isn't Clark in jail? He's at the scene of every major disaster, murder, or accident. They sort of touched on this with the new sheriff but didn't keep up with it. For that matter, why don't the cops try to hire Clark?
Once Clark found out kryptonite could hurt him, why wouldn't he take some time every weekend to go kryptonite-hunting with Pete and destroy every rock he found? If heat vision didn't do it there should be some cavern or crevice he could dump it in. What with the sheer amount of kryptonite available it's a miracle Clark survived childhood.
If you had no clue about your origins and you heard from a rich, world-class scientist who spoke your native language and knew where you came from, wouldn't you hang around and pump him for everything you could? Hell, intern with him for the summer or something.
How exactly is Clark going to maintain a secret identity later on around Lex?
"Hold it, Luthor. Your mad scheme ends here!"
"Clark, why are you running around in your jammies? Are you feeling all right?"
Why doesn't Clark practice more to find out what he can do? He still seems to constantly be surprised when a new ability pops up.
Did he pay back all the money he stole during his red-k summer?
Someone on the Smallville staff needs to figure out how strong Clark is and how resistant to damage so that he doesn't shake off something ten times worse than what knocked him out last episode.
Yeah, it's a TV show, you have to expect cheesy special effects. But please, people. When you swing an axe at something unbreakable, the ax bounces. Maybe it bends a little. Or the handle breaks. And the person swinging it hurts their arms. It doesn't shatter into a million dramatic, slow motion pieces. Neither do chain saws or knives. Really.
Watching the first seasons again brought back the stuff I loved: -- The relationship between Clark and his parents. They weren't perfect, but they were unfailingly honest and supportive. -- The relationship between Clark and Lex. It got repetitious, but nothing like this has been seen before. -- The relationship between Lex and Lionel, and Lex's battle against his destiny. Easily the best part of the show. Lex and Lionel are played perfectly, with so many levels going back and forth you need a flowchart to catch them all. Lionel is the most magnificent bastard to walk the earth and it's a thrill to watch him operate. -- The problems Clark faced, and the real dilemmas he had to deal with. He made some hard calls in there, especially regarding Lana when she was with Whitney.
But it got to where there was too much stuff that made me want to crawl into the screen and just start slapping people. The new mythologies. Kryptonite everything. The musical relationships. The ending-every-show-with-someone-pining-for-someone-else. The fact that 10 seconds of conversation in every show would have saved entire relationships. "Can't talk now, Lana, I have to go save Chloe, she doesn't know she's dating a murderer." How long does that take to say?
For that matter, just frigging tell Lana. How can you worry that knowing will endanger her when she's endangered every single episode? Just tell her! Everybody else that visits the show finds about about Clark in the first fifteen minutes, I think they hand out flyers at the Smallville visitor center.
Season Two is where they lost me. Every episode dripped angst. Every episode was a hide and seek game with the spaceship key, which got more screen time than Pete. Every episode I had to watch Clark pine over Lana, Chloe pine over Clark, and Lana pine over everything. I finally stopped watching, the good parts of the show -- and they were still there -- weren't enough to make me forget the "oh, come on" parts.
This season we started watching again, solely because James Marsters is on it. So far I haven't been impressed. And you have no idea how disappointed I am about that.
[ October 14, 2005, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
DARN IT MAN! SPOILER WARNING! PLEASE!
I havent watched the whole first season yet
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Is James Marsters good? He's the only possible reason for me to watch the show, and I am tempted.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Dunno, he was only seen quickly once at the end of the 1st episode of the season.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I always wondered why anybody and everybody was allowed to just waltz in to Lex's private study.
But then, we aren't supposed to think that much when we watch TV, right?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Admittedly I did have fun with all this in my Smallville column from awhile back: Somebody save me, there's a new Smallville. But it really hurts to wacth this again.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Are there any spoilers here for anything beyond the first season? A friend of mine has seen the first season and loves it, but isn't yet finished with the second season. If it's safe for her to read Chris's initial post I'll send her a link to this thread.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
I believe there a number of spoilers of later seasons, Noemon.
The best thing about Smallville, hands down, is the acting and characters of the two Luthors.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Chris, I emphatically agree. Except I got completely disgusted and stopped watching early in the second season.
But yeah, the show had incredible potential, despite its blatant disregard for the mythos. But it squandered it. Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
quote: Cave of Plot Device
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
WOW!
Ron and I had this same sort of conversation the other night. See, I rented season... 4? disc one because it just came out. So we're a year behind.
We watched the first two episodes and ended up pretty much MST3K-ing them. At the end of ep2, we laughed and said, "Well, at least we know it can't get any worse."
Then we saw the first ten minutes of the "Scabby Abby" episode and decided we were WRONG. I think it may have been the flashback to Freshman year... and I simply could not IMAGINE Tom Welling being fourteen and looking like THAT.
Seriously. If fourteen year olds really looked like that, there would be lots more pregnant teachers in jail.
It was just so painfully sad, to see this show turn so awful. I mean, it isn't even funny when Ron compares Lana to a monkey anymore. The thing with the artful Cryptonian tattoo? It was too embarrassing to make fun of.
It was all fun when it was just, "Ha, ha! Anybody can just walk right in on Lex at any moment. His security sucks!"
But now, it's like laughing at friend who has been horribly disfigured in a car accident - it just isn't funny to make fun of something that broken.
*sad*
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: Seriously. If fourteen year olds really looked like that, there would be lots more pregnant teachers in jail.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
So are you saying Smallville is differently abled now?
And there's no way Tom Welling could look like that and not hav Lana, along with half the other girls in school, fawning over him.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I like that Smallville is apparently a nexus for pre-superhero youth to all stop in and visit at one point or another. I know they did a Flash episode, and an Aquaman episode.
If Wonderwoman, the Wondertwins, and a young Bruce Wayne all swing through town, they could start a Superfriends club at Smallville High.
Gimmicks scream desperation to me.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I liked the Flash episode. It did exactly what I was hoping the series would do: it introduced an old character in a new way with nods to the history of the character without staying restricted to that history, it offered ethical dilemmas inherent in having superpowers, and it demonstrated that Clark's upbringing and personal strength is more important than the fact that he can juggle tractors. Also it was action-packed and funny in places. It worked for me. I dread the Aquaman episode, though. They've lost my faith.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I guess I don't have a problem with ONE. But when you have a stream of them, it looks like a gimmick, like they need something to bring in viewers because they aren't getting it done without it.
And as soon as I heard they were bringing in a young Lois Lane, I ended all thought of ever watching the show again.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Yup. Lois Lane bugged me beyond belief. Is it that difficult to write good stories without using gimmicks that ultimately ruin the storyline?
When I watch it now I have to assume it has nothing whatsoever to do with any Superman story I've ever heard of and just watch it as a cheesy superpowered Dawson's Creek.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
What annoys me is the idea of Lana getting annoyed over Clark keeping secrets. Of COURSE he's going to keep secrets. Why can't superhero girlfriends ever understand this?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Because they don't know that they are superheroes? Or has that changed recently?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Yeah. From Lana's pov, Clark could be secretly doing Lex or something. Not that I've ever *cough* heard anyone imply that *cough*
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Aha! We figured out how to watch the 2nd season without getting too annoyed to continue.
We just watch each episode, and just at the end when Lana inevitably gets that look and starts to say something about friends and secrets we back out to the main menu. Nothing of value lost, and we stopped throwing things at the screen. Mostly.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Olivet - no, no one's "implied" it...
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
h e r e
b e
s p o i l e r s
I think this season has been a lot better than the previous one. Thank God Jason is gone. Thank God Lionel is back and nasty.
I hate them for killing Alicia, but I love them for letting Chloe in on the secret.
Clark can't tell Lana. Ever. Because if he does, he's going to find that his worst fears about how she'll react pale in the face of how she really does.
Consider: Her parents were killed by a Kryptonite meteor strike. She was nearly killed by two vicious and homicidal Kryptonians. She knows that the meteor rock can harm or kill them.
She hates aliens with a bloody passion. I mean hate. If she finds out that Clark is an alien, and worse, a Kryptonian, she's going to do her level best to kill him. There's not a chance in hell that she'll give him any benefit of the doubt, because the combination of her parents' death, her traumatic experience with Super Ken and Barbie, and the massive violation of trust she'll see on Clark's part will turn every positive feeling she's ever had for him into more fuel for her hatred.
Anyway, I wish they'd dump continuity entirely and let Clark wind up with Chloe. Not that she couldn't do a whole helluva lot better, but he couldn't.
Oh, and how weird is it that Tom Welling was born April 26, 1977, and Brandon Routh, who will play the adult Superman in Superman Returns next year, was born October 9, 1979? There must be some sort of time travel involved...
Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
I loved the show until Lois Lane showed up. Everything changed. I can't stand it anymore. I've seen this happen with manys shows.
I hypothosize that the dynamics changed behind the scenes: Different writer. The producer forced everyone to target a different (probably younger and *more* male audience). Perhaps the addition of the Lois Lane character changed everyone. I don't know.
If I were cool I'd do a research project on this and all shows that suddenly tank.
I watched parts of an episode the other day to see if this season got better. I could watch it, sorta. But it still bugs me badly.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
*possible spoilers*
I initially said I'd never watch Smallville. I mean Clark Kent knowing Lex Luthor when he's younger? It just sounded hokey and all. Then one night I caught an episode when nothing else was on. From that point on (this was the end of season 1), I started watching every week. The main thing that allows me to enjoy the show is that I keep in mind that this has to be a total alternate universe thing. There's just too many errors for it to match up with the comics. With it being an alternate universe, they can do whatever with the characters, and I can just be along for the ride.
In regards to the new season, so far I'm quite pleased. We really haven't had the villain/meteor freak of the week type thing so far. There have been a lot of interesting plot points and stuff to speculate on. Next week brings in Aquaman, so we'll see whether they can keep it up or not.
EDIT: I also disliked them killing off Alicia, but that's because I thought she was an interesting character and quite good looking. I wish they would have kept her around at least a few more episodes.
Posted by Domasai (Member # 8739) on :
I watched Smallville through season two with my best friend, primarily because Lana is gorgeous, Michael Rosenbaum can actually act very well, and it was a great show to pull MST3K on. But then we saw the season premiere of three and came to the conclusion that it was too painful to MST3K on anymore, and that neither Kristin Kreuk's beauty nor Rosenbaum's acting chops could save it for us.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I thought the show's been pretty dorky, the few times I watched it, but I thought the season opener rocked. The Phantom Zone and General Zod? Yes, please!
Too bad I haven't gotten to watch anything since then.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: *possible spoilers*
I initially said I'd never watch Smallville. I mean Clark Kent knowing Lex Luthor when he's younger? It just sounded hokey and all.
<blink> That's... <laugh> that's actually really funny. You know, up until the late 80s, Clark and Lex had been best friends as kids. In the comics, I mean.
Clark and Lex were classmates, and best friends. Lex was also friends with Superboy (back then, Kal-El had all his powers the moment he landed on Earth, and there are some fun Superbaby stories).
Lex was a super-genius, and had very little patience for the average person. Superboy built him a lab of his own on the outskirts of town, and filled it with just about all the equipment and chemicals Lex could dream of.
Then one day, Superboy was flying by, and saw Lex's lab on fire, with Lex trapped inside. He blew out the fire with his super-breath and saved Lex.
Problem was, Lex had just succeeded in creating life in a beaker. When Superboy blew out the fire, he managed to kill Lex's creation. Possibly, it would have died from the fire anyway, but we'll never know. Also, the fumes from the fire made red-haired Lex lose all the hair on his body.
From that moment, Lex hated Superboy with a passion, and turned to crime.
For those of us who all of a sudden saw this relationship cease to exist retroactively in the late 80s, it was cool to see it being redone on Smallville.
Right now, DC is in the middle of changing everything again. So get used to origins being different from what you're used to.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
It was kind of cool that the voice of Jor-El is played by the guy who played General Zod in the movies.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Well I didn't start reading Superman until 1991/1992 or so. So yeah, it's probably why I hadn't heard of any of this stuff (or at least why I refuse to admit that some of it exists). Another similar problem in my mind is the fact that they made Metropolis be right near Smallville. Since when is that true? Hasn't it always been that Smallville is in Kansas and Metropolis is on the east coast (like New York or some such place)?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
starLisa - Ever read Elliot S! Magin's Superman novels?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Smallville was always more or less in the Midwest. Where is anyone's guess. Central City was where Akron, Ohio is. Metropolis... well, I've heard it said that Metropolis is Manhattan in the daytime, and Gotham City is Manhattan at night. So yeah, the TV show has them strangely close together.
The weirdest thing for me in the show, though, is the fact that Jonathan and Martha Kent look exactly like what I'd imagine the original Pete Ross and Lana Lang looking like as adults. Pete was blond and blue eyed, and Lana was the little red headed girl next door.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Chris, I love those novels. My copies are old and worn, but I treasure them. That's the Supes I know and love. I wasn't wild about his adaptation of Kingdom Come, but his Starwinds Howl online novel about Krypto, and the story "Luthor's Gift" weren't bad at all.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Yeah. I was sort of stunned when Pete was African-American (I guess they needed diversity in the cast?) and Lana had dark hair. I recalled Pete and Lana (who were married if I recall right) calling Lois to ask about how she was dealing with Clark's death (way back in the Death of Superman days).
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
starLisa - Thank you! I never checked online, didn't even know the short stories existed. Just spent a few minutes converting the chapter-by-chapter novels into complete ebooks, so now I can give my battered old paperbacks a rest.
I kinda liked his Kingdom Come. This moral Superman was entirely his style, although he was a bit weaker on the other characterizations.
Didn't mind Pete being black or the odd introduction of Chloe. But Pete was the single biggest failure of the show. Not the actor, but the fact that they underused him horribly.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Well, Chloe is great. She's doing Pete's part from the comics (knowing Clark's secret identity), although Clark never knew that Pete knew in the comics. Also, Chloe and Lex and Lionel are the only ones in the show who can act their way out of a paper bag. I think they should give Chloe the powers, kill off all three Kents and Lana Lang, and let Chloe-as-Supergirl deal with Luthor & Son.
Posted by firebird (Member # 1971) on :
No only is Chloe great ... and I'm with you starLisa on the Choe, Lex and Lionel would make a great show ... she also has a fabulous wardrobe!
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I'd love a Lex and Lionel show, and Chloe isn't a bad addition by any means. starLisa, I got a laugh at your Chloe-as-Supergirl idea. Is it bad that I could totally picture that?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Hey, she's blonde, right? I could see finding out that she's the real Kara Zor-El, Kal-El's cousin, and that prolonged exposure to Kryptonite robbed her of her powers temporarily.
She's certainly got more hero in her than the farmboy.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I think Chloe is the more adventurous heroine while Clark is the reluctant hero. I could easily see it though. It'd be a fun sort of twist.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Clark exists to take off his shirt and crack walnuts with his muscular buttocks.
Er, that is to say... he's cute but not a terribly compelling character anymore.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Fighting to shake off the visual... argh...
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I exist to disturb you, Chris.
Having said that, I watched the rest of the episodes on the first season 4 disc, and I think I may rent the rest, knowing that my Beloved will not watch any more of it with me. Clark and Lana annoy me. Chloe annoys him, too. It's just becoming an unpleasant slog.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Even had I no problems with the storylines and inane, "If only someone had taken 5 seconds to explain instead of looking defensive we could have avoided a whole season of recriminations" scenes, the physical stuff bugs me.
In one episode a Jekyl-and-Hyde teen grabs a helicopter and prevents it from taking off. Unless his transformation also made him weigh 800 pounds, this just don't happen. You run to another city, your shoes should be trashed. You shield someone from a fire, your clothes should be at least singed. And Clark's abilities in superspeed mode are wildly inconsistent and usually unintentionally funny.
And then Lex or Lionel says something in just the right way to suggest endless depths of Machiavellan machinations and I sigh and watch the next show.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Exactly.
*mutters*
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Come on. The "SCIENCE" of superman was never anything more than a nod. It was a vehicle. It was comic book (old style) and that was it. I mean Peter Parker becoming Spiderman because of a bite? Even if there was a Super Spider, created through genetic engineering, why on earth would it's bite genetically rewrite Peter so that he had Spider abilities. And why just some of them? Why not super hairy legs? Why not 8 legs? Why not compound eyes?
Comic books have never made sense, scientifically. And we are suprised that a TV show based on a comic book from the 30's has incredibly hokey science?
I laugh at the stupidity of Smallville, like Byron's pulling on the Helicoptor. Or how many times Jonathan can be hit, shot, die, knocked out and still be back to normal the next week. That guy's superman, if you ask me. And Lex, as many times as he's been hit over the head or drugged (even by Clark, in one case), should have severe brain damage. And the Luthor mansion security is a joke and a half. And why doesn't Lex have security camera's all over his library, with all the times someone (usually Clark) has broken in.
Plot devices and artificial excitement.
And Season 4, with the exception of the premier, Run, Transference and the Alicia episodes, well and truly sucked. The show truly jumped the shark. It was like the writers/producers had no care for anything. And the ratings showed that, as it hemorraged viewers. Especially and the finale got closer, I, and other fans, were angry that they were giving us crap like Clark and Lana being parents or some retarded kid building a fake High School and collecting students for it. (Come on! What are they going to do all day? "Let's go to class." And do what? There's no teacher. There's no work. And where will they sleep. The worst. The absolute worst.)
But this season (so far- fingers crossed) seemed like one of the famed ST:Voyager resets. It's like last season never really happened, at least the bad stuff. But I am somewhat worried. It could get bad.
starLisa, I agreed with everything you had to say about the series, especially Lana and her reaction. But I'd still like to see that. Since there's going to be a real triangle (Clark, Lex, and Lana) it'd make Lana's interest in Lex more realistic. Like they become partners against Clark.
Because in a way I believe that Lex has gone bad because Clark has lied to him (terribly, I might add) every step of the way. When Lex did wrong he jumped down his throat. But when Clark (on Red-K) went bad, no apology or peace making or anything. Clark has been the user, always asking for favors. Lex has tried to be his friend and bent over backwards for him. But Clark was never honest about anything, not even when he could be. Lex meant no harm. Now he is much more menacing.
Thanks, big dumb alien. (And that's how Seinfeld saw him. Remember the AMEX commercials?)
But the show has, so far, been really good, aside from a few moral choices and deceptions that I cannot believe Clark would even make. I mean, if he was going to sleep with Lana, you'd think the honorable thing would be at least to let her know he was not human. She really had a right to know, regardless that he lost his powers again this week.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
In regards to Spider-Man, he did at one point have 8 limbs, was hairy, and had compound eyes. It was due to further mutation, in which he became Man-Spider.
I do agree with the general proposition though that it's a comic book series and you shouldn't be so scientifically analytical about it. It's one of those things. If they say it works, then it works.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
The show has definitely lost something. I still watch it, though. And I admit, a big part of it, bigger than the screentime they get, is for the Luthors. The show has definitely blown much of its potential, in an effort to hit a different target audience.
Which is stupid, in my uninformed opinion, because while yes, the Dawson's Creek audience is bigtime, there's that audience plus legions of geeks and comic book fans who coulda tapped in if they'd made a compromise more towards the middle of the line, rather than going Dawson's Creekville.
I agree, IanO. Lex has a lot to be pissed about. Frankly I'm surprised he hasn't already busted out his Billionaire Magnifying Glass and started bursting Kent ants instead of just lookin' at `em.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Nope, sorry, I remain peeved about physical impossiblities within the defined parameters.
Clark can catch a car? Fine, I'll accept that as part of the story. But Clark catching a car must also include Clark getting knocked off his feet or driven down into the ground. The best Superman (and superhero) stories are those in which the character's powers are defined and they use them in accordance with known physical laws and limitations. Then the character has to get creative with his or her abilities when they're not perfectly suited for the task at hand, and they have to deal with the consequences of such actions. Of course, that requires an intelligent, creative writer, and there seem to be too few of those.
The fewer allowances I have to make, the more I can relax and enjoy the show. Otherwise it's just an endless litany of "Oh, come on" before I switch it off, especially when nearly every major annoying lapse could be easily avoided with some common sense and attention to detail.
Such as Dr. Octopus in Spider-Man 2. Hokey? Sure. Unbelievable? Once you accepted the neural attachments, the physics of it were well-handled. I noticed he always had two arms bracing against the street whenever he lifted anything heavy, and that made sense to me.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Why does he have to get knocked off his feet or driven into the ground? I mean to him it's like catching a baseball (so that gets rid of knocking him down when he catches it) and as for driven into the ground, do you think the weight is really that extreme to force him down? To me, this seems like nit picky stuff.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
If it happened once and I bitched it would be nitpicky. I guarantee you there will be something like that in every episode and after awhile the cumulative effect gets to me.
I agree it could just be me. I just can't turn off that much of my brain to enjoy something, and my faith in the writer/director is gone because now that I know he's not bound to reality in any manner at all, he can cheat to make the show work.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
The physics don't bother me nearly as much as the discontinuity (in terms of evenst and character) of season 4. The Mythology of the story has always interested me more. Though season 4 nearly lost me.
I mean, Alicia, Clark's wife/girlfriend dies. The one girl who, while somewhat whacked, made him feel 'special and normal at the same time' (his words.) He is devastated and almost committed murder in his rage.
Next episode: Gee, I'm so happy to be trying out for the Met Sharks and every girl ready to jump my bones. Alicia? Alicia who?
The infinite hole of sadness over the tragic and truly sensless murder of someone he loved somehow closed awfully quick. He showed more sorrow for Whitney than for Alicia. It's like Alicia and Pete went into a black hole where they are never thought of again. And then, when she is finally (and surprisingly) mentioned again (in the context of did she and Clark or didn't they) he brushes her memory off saying Lana is the only one he's every really loved. Yeah, the girl he's terrified of being honest with because of the very real possibility she won't understand- yeah, she's the one.
But this season, with a few minor points, has been satisfying. Am willing to see where this goes.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Laws of physics. In one of the early seasons, Clark got hit by a bus and the entire front of the bus caved in while Clark stood there. I don't care how much Clark digs in to the pavement, he's still going to go flying when something that outweighs him by that much hits him.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Judging by the comics, that's not the case. It seems to take an extreme force to knock Clark/Superman back. Take Doomsday for example. Doomsday punched Superman (and one of Justice League members estimated that "that punch could have levelled a mountain range") and Superman just took it. Didn't move, didn't fall.
I think it's a case of forces. There are two sorts of options here. Either the person fully absorbs the blow themselves (holds their ground, without digging in) or the person allows the blow to flow through them into the ground (thus forcing them down at angle into the ground). Think of it like this. Say a car hits you. You don't have the strength to stand up to the car, so of course you're going to fall down (or go flying) when the force hits you. Now say you do have the strength to withstand that force. It'd just be like standing your ground when you get punched in the face. You could go flying (if you allow yourself), but instead you just stand there and absorb the force. It's painful of course, but who said it wasn't.
EDIT: Just thought of something. There's no real world equivalent to Clark Kent/Superman. Everything in our world breaks (in some form) is forced to move by the force put on it. Clark Kent/Superman can basically withstand any force (without breaking or without moving). So there is no real world equivalent to use to judge (in terms of physics and all).
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
But can the ground under him withstand the force that his feet apply when, say, a truck lands on him? Can the soles of his shoes survive the friction when he runs faster than the speed of sound over asphalt for hundreds, even thousands, of miles?
In The New Adventures of Lois and Clark, they at least made an expalantion. Superman's 'super-aura (for lack of a better word) extended a very small distance outside his body. This did things like protect his costume (or clothing) when he was doing super stuff.
But this is all besides the point. They've shown Flash, they're showing Aquaman. When do they have Batman come and beat the stuffing outta him? Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I heard that they were originally going to have a young Bruce Wayne on Smallville, but then Batman Begins got made so they nixed it. Oh well. What would a young Bruce Wayne do anyways? He wouldn't be terribly far along in his training or anything. At best, he'd be studying crimonology at college. *yawn*
As for the ground underneath him thing, I don't know. I got for the whole suspension of disbelief thing. If the comics (and the show) indicate that the ground is fine, then I'll take it. You don't have to offer me a technical explanation (although in the case of his costume in the comics, apparently the material is nearly indestructible). The same goes for any kind of fiction for me. Take a science fiction book. If you say that your ships can travel faster than light, you don't have to get me a technical explanation (since one would be nearly impossible). I'll just take your word for it and enjoy the ride.
EDIT: Wait does the force have to go somewhere? I'm just thinking about this. Take a bus hitting him. The bus splits around him and is torn apart more or less. He absorbs some of the impact, but some of the force remains in the pieces (that continue to move through momentum and all). Does that force of impact necessarily have to go down into the ground though? Maybe I'm just thinking in circles. I still don't think the force should push him into the ground. I can't think of something analogous to it in the real life though.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
Bruce Wayne could show a different side of Lex - after all, they're both extremely rich young men, and probably move in the same social circles.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Okay, my brother and I have both been pondering this. We came to a similar conclusion. When something hits Clark, his muscles (or I guess his flesh) provides an equal, yet opposite force to whatever is hitting him. I can draw a force diagram out if someone likes. It makes sense. The force doesn't have to go somewhere. It's negated by the outward force.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
How does his body maintain balance while provided that level of force? I mean, even in a minimum expenditure of force, such as throwing a light punch, your body moves a bit, even with feeet at shoulder width.
These are the kinds of things I think about when I'm not watching the show, mind you. I don't bother about `em when I am.
As for Bruce Wayne...well, they're mucking about with the sacred 'continuity' so much. Really, they could do whatever they wanted. And not every continuity has him going to college to study criminology. In fact, that would be very detrimental to Batman.
Why would a philandering billionaire playboy without a care in the world study criminology?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I had figured (in the comics) that he used his flying ability along with strength to remain immobile when struck or to help deliver striking force when he punches. Clark doesn't know how to do this yet, unless he's doing it unconsciously.
Doesn't explain why everything - axes, chain saws, swords -- shatters on Clark's skin instead of, say, bending.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Uh...continuity did have him studying crimonology. He wanted to be a police officer, until he realized that meant he'd have to play by all the rules (which wasn't effective enough).
As for balance, who's to say he doesn't have super balance (along with everything else super)? Also it's not like this is an active movement (like your throwing a punch example). This is just him standing there. His muscles are exerting a force out to counter the force of the item hitting him. It makes sense. Bullets deflect off of him since the force just redirects their path.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I've got to agree with Chris on the physics thing. For example, in one of the Superman movies, he freezes the lake and then picks it up.
By holding on to the edge.
OK, fine, he's strong enough to hold his wrists straight against that force.
But the ice isn't.
The only way the knockback doesn't happen is if the flying powers are somehow at work. Possible, I guess.
BTW, that super-aura thing from L&C is from the comics. It wasn't made up just for the show.
One thing I really liked about Spider-man 2 was the attention to detail to the tentacles powers which Chris already mentioned. They flubbed some by letting Spider-man actually hit Otto in the jaw without knocking him out. But basically, they clearly cared about establishing the parameters of the powers.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
The shattering thing is irksome as well.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Clearly, Clark has super-drama in addition to super-everything else. Having an axe bounce or dent when it strikes him isn't nearly as dramatic as having it shatter.
Hmmm...I wonder what kind of kryptonite would negate super-drama. Gray, maybe?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:When something hits Clark, his muscles (or I guess his flesh) provides an equal, yet opposite force to whatever is hitting him. I can draw a force diagram out if someone likes. It makes sense. The force doesn't have to go somewhere. It's negated by the outward force.
Sorry, the physics here simply doesn't work no matter how you draw the force diagram.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
But no "super-humor", though.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Hopefully this season they'll find a kryptonite that reverses the effects of shark jumping.
quote:Spider-man actually hit Otto in the jaw without knocking him out
I loved that movie, but that really bugged me. One blow to the jaw from Spiderman should have killed Otto.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Eggshell white kryptonite.
No, wait. That's right it's Mauve. Mauve Kryptonite.
The Eggshell Kryptonite reverses Clark's emotional amnesia. During sweeps, they'll find it and Tom Welling will earn an Emmy for the amazing acting he displays as he vents the tears at Alicia's death, the loss of his best friend Pete, the guilt at Lex's fall, the huge numbers of deaths he's been around, and the way he's ignored (and has lost) Chloe for a woman who will never accept him the way he is.
It will be truly amazing.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
When TV show and filmmakers pay attention to the little, jarring things, they can get away with big sweeping things and I'll never quibble. Much. Guy gets bitten by radioactive and/or genetically enhanced spider and lives? No problem. Guy gains super powers from yellow sun and can resist nuclear blasts while still being able to feel someone touching him? No problem.
Guy running at superspeed through smoke without blowing it around at all? No. Guy jumping off the second level of a barn and somehow managing to vault over the railing and fall -- not dive, not run down the stairs, but fall -- fast enough to get up, run over, and catch the falling person even though they started falling before he started moving, that's when I give up and watch movies.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I want an episode featuring Pete. Just Pete. Clark can't appear anywhere in it.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Muave kryptonite? Are you sure? I thought I remembered that it was actually houndstooth kryptonite. The discovery of patterned kryptonite was something of a revelation, and won't actually be revealed in the show until the season finale of season 6.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Yeah, the physics are lame. I just think of it as magic.
Actually, if the storyline was consistently good, I think those things would bother people less.
Instead, AlMiles come off as real jerks. In many interviews they've basically talked about how Chloe is going to always get kicked in the face, how Pete was lame and they couldn't figure out what to do with him- and then they'll turn around as say the Prom episode (Spirit) was one of their favorites and give us crap like the School of Wax or the Spell episode.
Do they even care about their audience?
That said. I still am interested in seeing where things are going and *so far* have enjoyed the 5th season. But I'm (perhaps foolishly) hoping the other shoe doesn't drop.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Come on Chris. He obviously is denser than us, therefore, he falls faster. I think it's an exponential thing too.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
No. Houndstooth turns Clark into a Super-Werewolf (appropriately so) and he spent his time superhowling at the moon and mooning Lana. Pete will briefly return with some funky kryptonite-enhanced garlic that negates the houndstooth kryptonite.
Then he'll plug the Smallville:Metropolis Mix and say as the stereotypical black character, "Yo! C-ya. Gotta race my kryptonite-powered scooter!"
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:I loved that movie, but that really bugged me. One blow to the jaw from Spiderman should have killed Otto.
Well for the record, Spiderman isn't always going all out in the lethality department. Also, when he's punching Doc Ock in the face, he's usually simultaneously fighting off >1 other tentacles. And finally, well maybe his tentacles give him some other abilities as well. Increased stamina and durability are possibilities. Stress resistance, a greater ability to remain concious. Also perhaps Ock can see a blow coming from (literally) 5 directions at once, and thus maybe roll with the punch a bit more.
So there Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Stretch a little farther and you just might reach it, Jeff. Otto just tried to kill his beloved Aunt May and you don't think he was going for lethal force.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
See, that's what ultimately annoys me about all this, the wasted potential. Just because they couldn't think of what to do with Pete doesn't mean he was worthless, it means they need better writers. I honor the creators for the setup and their initial visions for the show, but it should have been taken away from them when they got silly.
Here's a thought: write a show about what people experience around Clark, without ever showing Clark. I'd love to see Pete running around trying to cover for Clark's actions and ultimately solving if not the main mystery, but a vital one while Clark is doing something super. We're told he was Clark's best friend and that he guarded his secret, let's see that.
Let his romance with Chloe continue, and let all of them deal with the problems it causes. Let him help Clark test his powers. Let him finally sit down with Chloe and Lana and tell them to lay the heck off of Clark. Yeah, he's got secrets, and he's also saved your lives every week for three years, cut him some slack.
Instead we got him running around behind Clark and Chloe until they finally wrote him off the show. I lost all respect for the writers when they did that.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Same here, Chris. There have been redeeming moments. But the end of Season 3 (with it great season finale that ultimately brought nothing new to the show in the season 4 premier- none of the issue raised made it past the second episode of the season) ultimately was the last gasp.
I think they are trying to get their moment back. But trying to use the Clana is not the way to go. I want more superman, more destiny, more knowing why he is here. Not more 'gee, can this work with Lana when the issue that has kept us apart in a big elephant in the room I keep trying to ignore?'
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Well, he was having serious 'spider-issues' at the time, Zan . There's also lingering respect for and horror at what Dr. Otto Octavius, a budding friend, had been and become.
I'm not sure which fight you're referring to, but if it's clocktower and train fight sequence, it doesn't hold water, because he needed Doc Ock alive to find out where MJ was.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I don't think it would have killed him - he hits muggers - but Otto took at least two huge kicks and a full arm punch (at different times).
I forgive that, though, and am willing to provide the explanation for it (the tentacles help move him to roll with the punch or something) because they obviously care about it and took great care.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: I heard that they were originally going to have a young Bruce Wayne on Smallville, but then Batman Begins got made so they nixed it. Oh well. What would a young Bruce Wayne do anyways? He wouldn't be terribly far along in his training or anything. At best, he'd be studying crimonology at college. *yawn*
Actually, Smallville happened because they were planning a Young Bruce Wayne show. And yes, Ian Somerholder (Boone on Lost and Adam on Smallville) was going to be Bruce.
Read this.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: BTW, that super-aura thing from L&C is from the comics. It wasn't made up just for the show.
Actually, I think the aura thing was originally made up for the Flash. His costume was just regular material, after all. Supes's costume was Kryptonian, and therefore as indestructable as he was.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
The aura thing came from John Byrne's Superman overhaul, when he cut Superman's powers back to merely incredible and less godlike. When she was giving Clark his costume for the first time she mentions something like "I noticed when you were a boy that clothes right next to your skin never got dirty or messed up, etc etc."
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
While we're on the subject of disappointing superhero adaptations, I've got to say again that the Hulk movie was incredibly (hehe) disappointing.
It could have been so good - good cast, great director.
Crappy story, though.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
Anyone who is asking questions about Season 4 needs to realize that Season 4 is the 'crapfest' season. Witches, Lana Lana Lana, more Lana, Jason (irritation-man) Jason and Lana, Lana's Tattoo, Lana's old ancestor the witch, more witches and more and more crap.
There were about 3 good episodes in Season 4. The Season Opener, the "Run" episode with the Flash, and the Season ender.
Other than that - garbage.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: The aura thing came from John Byrne's Superman overhaul, when he cut Superman's powers back to merely incredible and less godlike. When she was giving Clark his costume for the first time she mentions something like "I noticed when you were a boy that clothes right next to your skin never got dirty or messed up, etc etc."
Ah, in that case, it was definitely the Flash. He had an aura pre-Crisis, and Byrne didn't commit his retcon until post-Crisis days.
I look forward to a time when "post-Crisis" will mean after the 20 years between CoIE and IC are over, and not the icky time between them.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Nerds.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
<curtsey>
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
Transference was a good episode. And as lame as it was, Facade (the dreaded Kryp-Tuck episode) was actually OK. Not nearly as bad as I had expected (sort of like Waterworld.)
Still, that's saying something when you have to qualify statements like that.
Tonight's (Aquaman) will truly indicate whether the writers have learned any lessons from Season 4. The last 3 have been surprisingly very good.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I like that they're calling him AC. Keeping the real names is a nice touch.
So... how many other references to the DC Universe have there been? Bart-Flash, AC-Arthur Curry-Aquaman, there was a newspaper headline about the Themyscran ambassador...
I can't see them doing Green Lantern or Hawkman or Ralph Dibny (the special effects would be too much).
Oh, and Ken and Barbie were "soldiers of Zod". And there was a joke about calling the dog Krypto.
Anything I've missed?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
First episode, first time we see Lionel he's reading a paper that headlines something like "Billionaire Oliver Queen Lost."
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Really!? I totally missed that. How cool.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: In The New Adventures of Lois and Clark, they at least made an explanation. Superman's 'super-aura (for lack of a better word) extended a very small distance outside his body. This did things like protect his costume (or clothing) when he was doing super stuff.
It is also one explanation given for the tissue issue.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Junior lifeguard association?
I might have been able to stand that if they hadn't had Clark say "JLA."
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
It's the "coming next week" bit that bothered me. Lana's a vampire? That look sto be just the sort of hideous show that drives me crazy, but it's got James Marsters! With hreat lines! Agh!
Posted by Lord Solar Macharius (Member # 7775) on :
I've caught a couple of episodes of Smallville in the past, and largely liked what I've seen.
For the first time ever, I purposely tuned in tonight (Aquaman). Wow...if one more person mentions how something about A.C. is "fishy", I swear to the powers above that I'll...do something. Yes, something.
Is the writing on this show always that bad? The forced surfer talk, Batman and Robin level dialogue, poor pacing, corny fights, etc.
I like all the actors though. Especially James Marsters, and the guy who plays Lex.
By the way, did anyone think that Aquaman's hand might get blown off by the C-4 he was using? Maybe the hook clashes with the surfer dude image.
Edit: Just did some reseach and discovered some future plot threads that sound unbelievably stupid:
Spoiler Warning *
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"Tensions between Clark and Braniac spike, culminating in an explosive fight; look for Lois to go undercover as a stripper to investigate the murder of a young girl; Martha contracts a mysterious disease from the planet Krypton and is given hours to live; and we'll find out what happens when Clark has a run-in with Silver Kryptonite (read: paranoid much, Clark?)." Ask Ausiello
Oh my.
[ October 20, 2005, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Lord Solar Macharius ]
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Junior lifeguard association?
I might have been able to stand that if they hadn't had Clark say "JLA."
I know. <sigh> I figure, if someone didn't get the junior lifeguard association line, they're not likely to know what the JLA is either.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Anyone notice AC calling Clark "Superboy"?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Wouldn't silver kryptonite kill kryptonian werewolves?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*waits patiently*
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
for...?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I hate page changes. <pout>
So, about Kryptonite.
Green: Weakens and eventually kills super-powered Kryptonians.
Red: Makes weird things happen to super-powered Kryptonians. Each piece can only effect a given Kryptonian once, and its effects only last (except for rare but inevitable exceptions) for 24 hours. And a piece that turns one Kryptonian into a giant will turn any Kryptonian into a giant as well.
Blue: Bizarro Kryptonite. Has the same effect on Bizarros that Green does on super-powered Kryptonians.
Gold: Strips super-powered Kryptonians of their powers, permanently.
White: Kills all vegetation, Kryptonian or otherwise.
Jewel: Residents of the Phantom Zone (which does not look like a cross between a window and a mirror) can use Jewel Kryptonite to focus thir psychic eminations and affect things in our world.
Pink: Heh. Appeared in the last story arc of Peter David's Supergirl series. Use your imagination.
There is no Black or Silver or Purple or Magenta Kryptonite, people.
Grr. I have spoken.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
After Lex's wife tried to kill him and he was stranded on that remote island, didn't he find a necklace with the Wonder Woman symbol on it?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Even as a kid I considered the various colors of kryptonite as cheap plot devices thunk up by writers who were out of ideas...
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
I thought last night's episode was pretty well done. I liked the interaction with Clark and Braniac (though I'm curious how an alien AI entity got a job working as a history professor at a university in a couple months. Probably shouldn't scratch the surface too deeply on that one, though.) and Clark with AC. I like that Clark is taking his responsibility more fully- it's more global.
Next week has me worried, though. It's threatens to be like Spell, last year.
It's sad when you have to treat a show like an unfaithful spouse- you get suspicious and prepare for the worst at the slightest hint that things are not going to go the way you want them.
But so far, I have been happy with this season.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I just get the idea that a show I thought would be driven by character development and the fascinating moral and ethical choices superheroes have to make instead prefers to settle for the "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we made Lana a mermaid this time?" direction.
That said, it looks as if James Marsters' character is taking over the cool, multi-level dialogue that used to be Lex's arena.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
yeah, that is true. The character interaction was/is the best (and I still enjoy watching Clark and his parents, Lex, Chloe and even Lois (though their banter is getting old.) But it does seem like they are following the "hey, wouldn't it be cool if...?" Witches, and now vampires? That's why next week will probably suck.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*still waiting, pouts*
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
...for?
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: It's the "coming next week" bit that bothered me. Lana's a vampire? That look sto be just the sort of hideous show that drives me crazy, but it's got James Marsters! With hreat lines! Agh!
You tihnk that's bad? Well, get this. There's going to be a character in the episode called Buffy.
I'm not kidding.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by IanO: yeah, that is true. The character interaction was/is the best (and I still enjoy watching Clark and his parents, Lex, Chloe and even Lois (though their banter is getting old.) But it does seem like they are following the "hey, wouldn't it be cool if...?" Witches, and now vampires? That's why next week will probably suck.
I think the entire vampire ep is solely for Marsters to be able to say, "There's no such thing as vampires".
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by starLisa: ...for?
If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you. Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
If that is the case, then I am sorely disappointed. That kind of fan-boy nod should not be dictating the entire plot of an episode. Maybe a line where it fits. But not the creation of the entire storyline.
Sort of like the lame House of Wax episode that seemed a WB tie in to the movie. Pathetic.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Well, I looked through the whole thread, and I can only conclude that you're either waiting for the show to stop insulting us or for Mashiach. Which may actually happen at the same time.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I just watched my second episode ever of Smallville last night. Well, actually I only watched the second half. I watched it for one reason only, to see if James Marsters was a good actor when playing a part other than Spike. I satisfied myself on two counts:
1. James Marsters is a very good actor, he made me want to start watching every week, even though the 28 minutes that he wasn't in were excruciatingly horrible. So he's not just really hot. 2. James Marsters is really hot even when he's not playing Spike. My god that man has an amazing facial structure!
So, I guess I'll be watching next week as well. We'll see how long the James Marsters love outweighs the really bad writing and acting hate.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote: There is no Black or Silver or Purple or Magenta Kryptonite, people.
Except for in the Superfriends animated series, where the animators would occasionally mis-color what was supposed to be green, red, or blue kryptonite.
--Enigmatic
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Fair enough. <grin>
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Well, I looked through the whole thread, and I can only conclude that you're either waiting for the show to stop insulting us or for Mashiach. Which may actually happen at the same time.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I will not watch this show. Not even if James Marsters has an accent. And bleach blond hair. And an unhealty adversity to the sun. I draw the line at fangs, though.
Ni!
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Spoilers
Despite the horribly stupid title, I really liked the Lexmas episode. Probably because, well, lots and lots of Lex Luthor. There was the near-required sappy Santa Claus moment, pretty mediocre, they didn't really seem to reach for real, powerful emotion.
But I think this is Lex's real decision to become, well, a villain. He's made other decisions that were villainous, but there was expediency, or gray areas, or he was wrangling with his father and so had to play dirty just to survive. But this time, he's made a decision to play *really* dirty solely for power. The kind of decision he makes at the end of this episode is one you could expect Lex Luthor of the comics to make.
But as they almost always do with Lex Luthor, they do a good job of making him complicated. He does it for love, really, and the avoidance of pain.
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