What kinds of general factors do you think lead to divorce? How many of these are affected by age?
So far, from Senoj: financial issues lack of time together disagreement over sex lack of romantic interest having/raising children loss of shared values
Question though, for Senoj: By having/raising children, do you mean that having children causes strains on the marriage, or that the couple disagrees on whether or not to have them?
-pH
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
Lack of *honest discussion* before the marriage about child rearing, division of household labor, money handling, faith, purpose, and long term goals.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Personally, I think it largely boils down to communication, commitment, and consideration. The other stuff exacerbates lack of any of those three. Really good communication, with consideration for your partner enough to fight fair, and commitment to work through it no matter how long it takes or how hard it is solves the secondary issues arising from financial issues, sex, kids or values. But it takes both partners for the three C's.
The main problem is that all three factors are skills that have to be learned. You aren't born with it. So if you didn't learn consideration, good communication skills, or the practical application of true commitment, it makes marriage harder since you have to learn the skill and learn to apply the skill effectively with your beloved in one fell swoop.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
Didn't see you started a new thread, pH. Things were going pretty fast over on the other and I couldn't keep up.
In answer to your question: both (hence having/raising). Marriages end when one wants a child and the other doesn't (or at least not yet). They also end when partners disagree strongly over how to raise the child.
And I would like it if we put the list in the context of our previous discussion, just so contributors to the list can focus their additions/amendments. Or maybe that's a bad idea. Whatever you think, pH.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
You're right. We should put it more in context.
Basically, Senoj said that an increase in younger marriages would lead to a decrease in divorce rates. I said that divorce rates among those who married young are much higher than those who marry at an older age.
Now we're trying to figure out if age is a factor, and what other factors could contribute.
I shall elaborate more on this when I don't have to run and get someone from the bus stop, unless you'd like to do so, Senoj?
-pH
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
That was exactly right, pH. So the purpose of the list (as I envision it) is to find the proximate causes of divorce (not the root causes) and then postulate on how marrying earlier or later would affect those.
In advance, I just want to say I have no idea how this will come out. I am completely open to being persuaded that my assertion is wrong.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Mistaken impression of just what each participant expects to get out of a marriage. Lack of understanding of the responsibilities, sacrifices, and duties. Unrealistic belief in the romantic notion of "the spark," the fading of which is apparently grounds to dump the whole thing and start over.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: So far, from Senoj: financial issues lack of time together disagreement over sex lack of romantic interest having/raising children loss of shared values
Add "in-law relations" to the list.
But financial issues, the addition of children, and in-law issues are all external pressures and I don't think will cause the break up on their own...
the others are symptoms... as are affairs.
I think Jeniwren's right: if both people are willing to work hard enough, any marriage is salvageable... I think it ends when one or both people choose to stop working at it, for whatever reason (I consider beating your spouse and refusing to get psychological help until you don't, for example, to be "not working at it").
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:the others are symptoms... as are affairs.
I don't believe this. It might start from other things, but once they happen, the loss of trust will gum up everything else. Even if the previous issues are no longer a problem, there is still the betrayal of the affair.
Posted by Samarkand (Member # 8379) on :
I have always heard that marrying later leads to a lower divorce rate and all the statistics I've looked at thus far online support this. It is of course possible that within certain groups (religious, ethnic, etc.) the trend is the opposite, but overall the older you are, the more educated, the more money you have, the later you have children, the less likely you are to get divorced.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I suspect a good part of the difference in divorce rates of people marrying at different ages is number of years married. After all, if you look at two groups of 40-year-olds, one of which got married at an average age of 20, and one of which got married at an average age of 35, I would be surprised if there weren't fewer divorces among the group that married later.
Many marriages that lack one or more of the three Cs can struggle along for years before disintegrating.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
Two points:
Samarkand- The stats at divorceform.org were part of what started this discussion. Look at the Mostly for Mormons about Gay Marriage thread for details. Using the stats to claim "marrying later leads to a lower divorce rate" is not supportable from those facts. Rather you could say "people who marry later are less likely to divorce." The key (for me) is the "leads to" which implies a causal relationship that is not implied by the stats.
Second, a general comment. I feel one root cause of divorce is selfishness in almost all instances. However it's difficult to understand how age at the time of marriage affects such a root cause. That's why I want to list proximate causes (straw that broke the camel's back sort of stuff) and see how they may be influenced by age at the time of marriage.
But that's just me. If the thread wants to go somewhere else I'll just follow. Or not, since I'm generally not on-line during the weekend.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
The inability to accept that there is a difference between expectations and reality seems to me to be a big cause for divorce.
She expects endless romance. He expects endless sex. She expects he'll change for the better. He expects she'll never change. She expects he'll help with the housework. He expects she'll do all the housework. She expects he'll be like dad. He expects she'll be like mom. She expects he'll know what she wants. He expects she'll know what he needs. She expects him to read his mind. He expects her not to bother him. She expects it will be so easy. He expects it will be so easy.
The above may be a bit sexist, and differs from couple to couple. However, when the expectations are not met, there are two choices. 1) Work to meet them, both of you. 2)Get angry. 1 leads to a happy marriage of many years. 2 leads to violence, dispear, or if you are truly lucky, divorce.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I think another factor contributing to divorce is expecting your spouse to be your everything. If you don't have other friends, other confidantes, other interests one or both of you will feel stifled. This is especially true when one person has an interest they aren't persuing becuase their spouse isn't interested.
Posted by Miriya (Member # 7822) on :
quote:Personally, I think it largely boils down to communication, commitment, and consideration.
While I agree that this is key, I don't think any amount of the three Cs will overcome a lack of serious and thorough discussion prior to getting married.
I think far too many people get married without knowing one another well enough. I suspect that may be more prevalent in younger marrying couples. I don't think that means people should marry later but that they should take preparation prior to marriage more seriously at any age.
[ October 21, 2005, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Miriya ]
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
I agree, Miriya, completely. I would hope, though, that a byproduct of being fully committed, would be that prior to that commitment, you'd want to do some serious amount of work (premarital counselling up one arm and down the other, thankyouverymuch) to make sure the commitment is the right one. That's just logical to me, but I only came to that conclusion after being divorced so I know it's very easy to overlook. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I actually disagree. While I think it is pretty stupid to get married without knowing each other fairly well, and a way to deliberately make things harder for yourselves, I don't think it is necessarily fatal to a marriage IF both partners have the three Cs. Especially commitment.
Posted by Miriya (Member # 7822) on :
It isn't necessarily fatal to the marriage but there are some differences in values that make you miserable. While commitment and effort can help you live together with it, it won't make you HAPPY while you're living with it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Perhaps. But I think part of "committed" means willing to do whatever it takes to come to a compromise that works for both.
Again, not easy at all.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Even if the previous issues are no longer a problem, there is still the betrayal of the affair.
Absolutely. My intent was to say merely that something was wrong already... a lack of at least one of the C's, if you will, by the time an affair is involved.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I remember when I had an interpersonal relationship class that addictions and resentment over a loss of freedom also were in the top ten reasons that couples fought/broke up
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I would say that pride and selfishness--the unwillingness to give anything up and the belief that you don't need to--destroy a lot of marriages.
There, now I own the top 3 threads on the forum. Goodnight!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I think resentment is a big factor.
I mean, all of a sudden, you can't just go out and do whatever you want, whenever you want. You have to think of how it will affect your marriage/family.
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